Presumably this seat arrangement only applies to Dragon and Soyuz, given the lack of track record and even certification of Starliner at this point. It took two demo flights and three and a half missions, plus some unknown number of Cargo V2 missions with some similarity (e.g. parachutes) before Russia agreed to fly on Crew Dragon. If the same kind of track record is required for Starliner it almost doesn't seem worth the effort given the low number of planned flights.Not having seat swaps on alternating flights (once Starliner is certified by NASA and in rotation) seems non-optimal but unavoidable to me.
Quote from: abaddon on 07/15/2022 02:25 pmPresumably this seat arrangement only applies to Dragon and Soyuz, given the lack of track record and even certification of Starliner at this point. It took two demo flights and three and a half missions, plus some unknown number of Cargo V2 missions with some similarity (e.g. parachutes) before Russia agreed to fly on Crew Dragon. If the same kind of track record is required for Starliner it almost doesn't seem worth the effort given the low number of planned flights.Not having seat swaps on alternating flights (once Starliner is certified by NASA and in rotation) seems non-optimal but unavoidable to me.Starliner will be easier. This took soo long, because Russia desperately wanted to go back to the US paying them piles of money for flights. Now that they've admitted that it will never happen again, adding in another vehicle will only be technical, not political.
Quote from: deadman1204 on 07/15/2022 07:17 pmQuote from: abaddon on 07/15/2022 02:25 pmPresumably this seat arrangement only applies to Dragon and Soyuz, given the lack of track record and even certification of Starliner at this point. It took two demo flights and three and a half missions, plus some unknown number of Cargo V2 missions with some similarity (e.g. parachutes) before Russia agreed to fly on Crew Dragon. If the same kind of track record is required for Starliner it almost doesn't seem worth the effort given the low number of planned flights.Not having seat swaps on alternating flights (once Starliner is certified by NASA and in rotation) seems non-optimal but unavoidable to me.Starliner will be easier. This took soo long, because Russia desperately wanted to go back to the US paying them piles of money for flights. Now that they've admitted that it will never happen again, adding in another vehicle will only be technical, not political.Even Russians require three piloted flights before "commissioning" of the spacecraft. I.e., before that it is "experimental/test flights". So, that would put the earliest Starliner that Russians accept to fly in at the third regular flight. That will probably be second half of 2025.
Quote from: baldusi on 07/17/2022 08:19 pmQuote from: deadman1204 on 07/15/2022 07:17 pmQuote from: abaddon on 07/15/2022 02:25 pmPresumably this seat arrangement only applies to Dragon and Soyuz, given the lack of track record and even certification of Starliner at this point. It took two demo flights and three and a half missions, plus some unknown number of Cargo V2 missions with some similarity (e.g. parachutes) before Russia agreed to fly on Crew Dragon. If the same kind of track record is required for Starliner it almost doesn't seem worth the effort given the low number of planned flights.Not having seat swaps on alternating flights (once Starliner is certified by NASA and in rotation) seems non-optimal but unavoidable to me.Starliner will be easier. This took soo long, because Russia desperately wanted to go back to the US paying them piles of money for flights. Now that they've admitted that it will never happen again, adding in another vehicle will only be technical, not political.Even Russians require three piloted flights before "commissioning" of the spacecraft. I.e., before that it is "experimental/test flights". So, that would put the earliest Starliner that Russians accept to fly in at the third regular flight. That will probably be second half of 2025.This is the same country that hides any/all near miss/near loss of crews from NASA, because they don't want to look bad. I bet the 3 flight thing can be ignored.
No, I don't see any sinister motive here. Roscosmos has not had any insight into the Dragon design, nor Starliner. You would not expect NASA to fly astronauts on a hypothetical Russian or Chinese spacecraft that only had one manned test flight. In this case I think it is a perfectly valid decision on their part.
Quote from: Lars-J on 07/19/2022 10:50 pmNo, I don't see any sinister motive here. Roscosmos has not had any insight into the Dragon design, nor Starliner. You would not expect NASA to fly astronauts on a hypothetical Russian or Chinese spacecraft that only had one manned test flight. In this case I think it is a perfectly valid decision on their part.I think part of the reason it took so long to formally sign the seat swap agreement between NASA and Roscosmos for seats on Crew Dragon and Soyuz was the former director of that agency.Other contributing factors which likely had more effect were the Crew Dragon exploding in testing, Starliner's performance in its first mission and the valve problem that prevented Starliner from launching last year.
https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/1550160447088779265
Quote from: yg1968 on 07/21/2022 06:12 pmhttps://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/1550160447088779265Once Starliner has a few operational missions under its belt, that might expand to two crew rotations in a year - provided Russia is still associated with the ISS.
With today's announcement that Boeing's PCM-1 will be in the fall of 2023, here is what I now get for the commercial crew missions until 2030:2023 SpaceX-6 and Boeing-12024 SpaceX-7 and Boeing-22025 SpaceX-8 and Boeing-32026 SpaceX-9 and Boeing-42027 SpaceX-10 and Boeing-52028 SpaceX-11 and Boeing-62029- SpaceX-12 and SpaceX-132030- SpaceX-14 and perhaps one other mission to be awarded. Quote from: yg1968 on 06/01/2022 08:59 pmQuote from: whitelancer64 on 06/01/2022 08:38 pmThe February award stipulates the contract runs through March 31, 2028. The starting date of the February contract was in 2023 (if needed). But if you look at the current schedule, SpaceX-6 would be in 2023. Overall, I get an extra mission for SpaceX in 2023 (or in 2029 if Boeing-1 is ready in 2023) but other than that, it's one per year for SpaceX. 2023 SpaceX-6 and 72024 SpaceX-8 and Boeing-12025 SpaceX-9 and Boeing-22026 SpaceX-10 and Boeing-32027 SpaceX-11 and Boeing-42028 SpaceX-12 and Boeing-52029- SpaceX-13 and Boeing-62030- SpaceX-14 and perhaps one other mission to be awarded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Crew_Program
Quote from: whitelancer64 on 06/01/2022 08:38 pmThe February award stipulates the contract runs through March 31, 2028. The starting date of the February contract was in 2023 (if needed). But if you look at the current schedule, SpaceX-6 would be in 2023. Overall, I get an extra mission for SpaceX in 2023 (or in 2029 if Boeing-1 is ready in 2023) but other than that, it's one per year for SpaceX. 2023 SpaceX-6 and 72024 SpaceX-8 and Boeing-12025 SpaceX-9 and Boeing-22026 SpaceX-10 and Boeing-32027 SpaceX-11 and Boeing-42028 SpaceX-12 and Boeing-52029- SpaceX-13 and Boeing-62030- SpaceX-14 and perhaps one other mission to be awarded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Crew_Program
The February award stipulates the contract runs through March 31, 2028.
With today's announcement that Boeing's PCM-1 will be in the fall of 2023, here is what I now get for the commercial crew missions until 2030:2023 SpaceX-6 and Boeing-12024 SpaceX-7 and Boeing-22025 SpaceX-8 and Boeing-32026 SpaceX-9 and Boeing-42027 SpaceX-10 and Boeing-52028 SpaceX-11 and Boeing-62029- SpaceX-12 and SpaceX-132030- SpaceX-14 and perhaps one other mission to be awarded.
SpaceX Crew-7, Huginn mission patch, 2023ESA astronaut Andreas Mogensen (DK) is scheduled to fly on a SpaceX Crew Dragon spacecraft to the International Space Station on its seventh crewed operational flight called Crew-7, the thirteenth overall Crew Dragon orbital flight. Flying with commander NASA astronaut Jasmin Moghbeli, Andreas will serve as spacecraft pilot - the first non-US astronaut assigned in this capacity. Two more crew members are to be named at a later date.The name of Andreas’s second mission to the Space Station is ‘Huginn’. Inspired by Norse mythology, the name is taken from one of two ravens who serve as helper spirits of the god Odin. Called Huginn and Muninn, these two birds sit on Odin’s shoulders and are sent flying across the world at dawn. They return at night to inform him of the many events they have seen and heard. In Old Norse, ‘Huginn’ means ‘thought’ and ‘Muninn’ means ‘mind’ or ‘memory’.The mission patch itself, designed by ESA graphic designer Karen Lochtenberg, is rendered in the red and white of the Danish flag, and ESA’s own ‘Deep Space Blue’ colour.The raven Huginn is depicted flying to the right, moving into the future as he glides over an Earth-rise horizon, which could also be seen as the Moon or Mars. His wing includes shading in the shape of Andreas’s homeland, Denmark, while the white of the wing’s highlight – referred to by the designer as the ‘swoosh’ – depicts the journey to the Space Station from Andreas’s birthplace in Copenhagen.Two stripes on Huginn’s back depict the distinctive solar arrays of the Station, and represent Andreas’s second spaceflight. Six stars in the background form a constellation that resembles the Viking symbol for 'safe travels'.Related article: Introducing Huginnhttps://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2022/08/SpaceX_Crew-7_Huginn_mission_patch_2023Image credit: ESA
13:06Quote from: Mark NappiOne other added area is PCM-1 [Post Certification Mission 1]. We have gone through all the same process of baselining our schedules and understanding everything that needs to be completed and we're targeting a Fall opportunity. Both the Crew Module and the Service Module are also in work on the floor, so we have four vehicles in flow in the C3PF [Commercial Crew and Cargo Processing Facility], and when we get closer to vehicle readiness we'll be working a launch date with Steve and company as well.
One other added area is PCM-1 [Post Certification Mission 1]. We have gone through all the same process of baselining our schedules and understanding everything that needs to be completed and we're targeting a Fall opportunity. Both the Crew Module and the Service Module are also in work on the floor, so we have four vehicles in flow in the C3PF [Commercial Crew and Cargo Processing Facility], and when we get closer to vehicle readiness we'll be working a launch date with Steve and company as well.
... Boeing said that they were targeting the fall of 2023 for PCM-1, so I assumed that NASA was on board with it but it probably just means that Boeing is still trying for the fall of 2023. It doesn't mean that Boeing's PCM-1 will be in the fall of 2023 or that NASA has accepted that date. ...
36:50Joey Roulette: When will Soyuz / Starliner seat swaps start?Joel Montalbano: Will start working that this fall. Current Integrated Crew Agreement is for one flight per year in 2022, 2023, & 2024 with Soyuz / Crew Dragon seat swaps, but as soon as the September / October campaigns are over we will work on trying to fold in Boeing and make it a long-term agreement with a seat swap on every flight. The goal is a modification to the existing agreement, with Starliner on the same terms as Crew Dragon, that being a no-cost barter, regardless of the vehicle.
Quote from: yg1968 on 08/26/2022 04:19 am... Boeing said that they were targeting the fall of 2023 for PCM-1, so I assumed that NASA was on board with it but it probably just means that Boeing is still trying for the fall of 2023. It doesn't mean that Boeing's PCM-1 will be in the fall of 2023 or that NASA has accepted that date. ...Yeah. NASA said nothing on the subject, and I was surprised that none of the reporters picked up on it to ask NASA about the decision. I suppose our next chance will be at the Crew-5 briefing. ("A question for Steve Stitch: Mark Nappi mentioned targeting a Fall 2023 opportunity for Boeing PCM-1. When will you decide which provider's vehicle will fly that slot, and what will go into the decision making process?")Going into this Boeing CFT briefing, (and influenced by the statements by and about Mogensen re Crew-7 in 2023) I was expecting them to explicitly say Boeing PCM-1 wouldn't be until 2024 (since the decision for Fall 2023 would have to be made before they could fully examine the results of CFT), but Nappi's statement sure implies that he thinks Boeing is in the running for Fall 2023 and thus NASA, at the very least, hasn't decided yet.
NASA has awarded five additional missions to Space Exploration Technologies Corporation (SpaceX) of Hawthorne, California, for crew transportation services to the International Space Station as part of the agency’s Commercial Crew Transportation Capability (CCtCap) contract. The CCtCap modification brings the total missions for SpaceX to 14 and allows NASA to maintain an uninterrupted U.S. capability for human access to the space station until 2030, with two unique commercial crew industry partners.This is a firm fixed-price, indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity contract modification for the Crew-10, Crew-11, Crew-12, Crew-13, and Crew-14 flights. The value of this modification for all five missions and related mission services is $1,436,438,446. The amount includes ground, launch, in-orbit, and return and recovery operations, cargo transportation for each mission, and a lifeboat capability while docked to the International Space Station. The period of performance runs through 2030 and brings the total CCtCap contract value with SpaceX to $4,927,306,350.The award follows the agency issuing a notice of intent in June 2022 to purchase the additional missions. The current sole source modification does not preclude NASA from seeking future contract modifications for additional transportation services, as needed.
Is this the correct thread? https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-awards-spacex-more-crew-flights-to-space-stationQuote from: NASANASA has awarded five additional missions to Space Exploration Technologies Corporation (SpaceX) of Hawthorne, California, for crew transportation services to the International Space Station as part of the agency’s Commercial Crew Transportation Capability (CCtCap) contract. The CCtCap modification brings the total missions for SpaceX to 14 and allows NASA to maintain an uninterrupted U.S. capability for human access to the space station until 2030, with two unique commercial crew industry partners.This is a firm fixed-price, indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity contract modification for the Crew-10, Crew-11, Crew-12, Crew-13, and Crew-14 flights. The value of this modification for all five missions and related mission services is $1,436,438,446. The amount includes ground, launch, in-orbit, and return and recovery operations, cargo transportation for each mission, and a lifeboat capability while docked to the International Space Station. The period of performance runs through 2030 and brings the total CCtCap contract value with SpaceX to $4,927,306,350.The award follows the agency issuing a notice of intent in June 2022 to purchase the additional missions. The current sole source modification does not preclude NASA from seeking future contract modifications for additional transportation services, as needed.$287,287,689 per flight, or $71,821,922 per seat
The current sole source modification does not preclude NASA from seeking future contract modifications for additional transportation services, as needed.