New Glenn 9x4 discussion

[Starmang10]

Blue Origin recently posted an update on New Glenn showcasing future upgrades and changes.

"Blue Origin announced a series of upgrades to New Glenn designed to increase payload performance and launch cadence, while enhancing reliability. The enhancements span propulsion, structures, avionics, reusability, and recovery operations, and will be phased into upcoming New Glenn missions beginning with NG-3.

One of the primary enhancements includes higher-performing engines on both stages. Total thrust for the seven BE-4 booster engines is increasing from 3.9 million lbf (17,219 kN) to 4.5 million lbf (19,928 kN). BE-4 has already demonstrated 625,000 lbf on the test stand at current propellant conditions and will achieve 640,000 lbf later this year, with propellant subcooling increasing the current thrust capability from the existing 550,000 lbf.

The total thrust of the two BE-3Us powering New Glenn’s upper stage is increasing from the original design of 320,000 lbf (1,423 kN) to 400,000 lbf (1,779 kN) thrust over the next few missions. BE-3U has already demonstrated 211,658 lbf on the test stand.

These enhancements will immediately benefit customers already manifested on New Glenn to fly to destinations including low-Earth orbit, the Moon, and beyond. Additional vehicle upgrades include a reusable fairing to support increased flight rates, an updated lower-cost tank design, and a higher-performing and reusable thermal protection system to improve turnaround time.   

The next chapter in New Glenn’s roadmap is a new super-heavy class rocket. Named after the number of engines on each stage, New Glenn 9x4, is designed for a subset of missions requiring additional capacity and performance. The vehicle carries over 70 metric tons to low-Earth orbit, over 14 metric tons direct to geosynchronous orbit, and over 20 metric tons to trans-lunar injection. Additionally, the 9x4 vehicle will feature a larger 8.7-meter fairing.

Both engines: 9x4 and our current variant, 7x2, will serve the market concurrently, giving customers more launch options for their missions, including mega-constellations, lunar and deep space exploration, and national security imperatives such as Golden Dome."
https://www.blueorigin.com/news/new-glenn-upgraded-engines-subcooled-components-drive-enhanced-performance

[meekGee]

New Glenner.

[leeloodallasmultipass]

Not very Blue Origin like. They will probably put it again soon.

[sstli2]

Any screenshots of the contents?

[wannamoonbase]

New Glenner.

Newer Glenn or New New Glenn?

I like this thread idea.

More engines
More thrust
Subcooled prop
A booster stretch because of the above improvements
Cheaper upper stage, maybe an optional smaller single engine upper stage
Cutting weight from over engineered systems that now have flight data

[Starmang10]

Any screenshots of the contents?

Unfortunately not. I was mainly trying to find information about Blue's Biconic Spacecraft when I happened to stumble upon the update.

I believe they might try and post it later, but for now all we can really do is speculate.

Edit: Looks like they fixed it.

[DanClemmensen]

New Glenner.

Newer Glenn or New New Glenn?

I like this thread idea.

More engines
More thrust
Subcooled prop
A booster stretch because of the above improvements
Cheaper upper stage, maybe an optional smaller single engine upper stage
Cutting weight from over engineered systems that now have flight data

You appear to be proposing a hardware-rich iterative design approach, which implies that the existing design is not perfect. This is the thread for Blue Origin's New Glenn. You are clearly on the wrong thread. Maybe a SpaceX thread?

[Starmang10]

Any screenshots of the contents?

Unfortunately not. I was mainly trying to find information about Blue's Biconic Spacecraft when I happened to stumble upon the update.

I believe they might try and post it later, but for now all we can really do is speculate.

Edit: Looks like they fixed it.

Contents, will be posted in the top thread

Blue Origin announced a series of upgrades to New Glenn designed to increase payload performance and launch cadence, while enhancing reliability. The enhancements span propulsion, structures, avionics, reusability, and recovery operations, and will be phased into upcoming New Glenn missions beginning with NG-3.

One of the primary enhancements includes higher-performing engines on both stages. Total thrust for the seven BE-4 booster engines is increasing from 3.9 million lbf (17,219 kN) to 4.5 million lbf (19,928 kN). BE-4 has already demonstrated 625,000 lbf on the test stand at current propellant conditions and will achieve 640,000 lbf later this year, with propellant subcooling increasing the current thrust capability from the existing 550,000 lbf.

The total thrust of the two BE-3Us powering New Glenn’s upper stage is increasing from the original design of 320,000 lbf (1,423 kN) to 400,000 lbf (1,779 kN) thrust over the next few missions. BE-3U has already demonstrated 211,658 lbf on the test stand.

These enhancements will immediately benefit customers already manifested on New Glenn to fly to destinations including low-Earth orbit, the Moon, and beyond. Additional vehicle upgrades include a reusable fairing to support increased flight rates, an updated lower-cost tank design, and a higher-performing and reusable thermal protection system to improve turnaround time.   

The next chapter in New Glenn’s roadmap is a new super-heavy class rocket. Named after the number of engines on each stage, New Glenn 9x4, is designed for a subset of missions requiring additional capacity and performance. The vehicle carries over 70 metric tons to low-Earth orbit, over 14 metric tons direct to geosynchronous orbit, and over 20 metric tons to trans-lunar injection. Additionally, the 9x4 vehicle will feature a larger 8.7-meter fairing.

Both engines: 9x4 and our current variant, 7x2, will serve the market concurrently, giving customers more launch options for their missions, including mega-constellations, lunar and deep space exploration, and national security imperatives such as Golden Dome.

[Starmang10]

High quality render showcasing the officially titled 9x4 (9 first stage engines and 4 second stage engines) configuration.

The 9x4 and current 7x2 will fly in tandem based off of customer needs. It should be noted that the 9x4 configuration is labeled as a super-heavy launch vehicle, making it a market competitor to Starship.

[StraumliBlight]

Anyone want to ask Tory Bruno if Vulcan will take advantage of the increased BE-4 thrust (2,847 kN)?

Could be some large cost savings if fewer GEM 63XLs are required ($7 million per solid?).

[Robert_the_Doll]

https://twitter.com/davill/status/1991538235609326013

Incredible upgrades to the New Glenn system as we enhance our BE-4 and BE-3U engine performance. The total thrust on the booster is increasing from 3.9 million lbf (17,219 kN) to 4.5 million lbf (19,928 kN) thrust. Total thrust on our two BE-3Us is increasing from 320,000 lbf (1,423 kN) to 400,000 lbf (1,779 kN) thrust over the next few missions.

[StraumliBlight]

High quality render showcasing the officially titled 9x4 (9 first stage engines and 4 second stage engines) configuration.

The 9x4 and current 7x2 will fly in tandem based off of customer needs. It should be noted that the 9x4 configuration is labeled as a super-heavy launch vehicle, making it a market competitor to Starship.

Its got Falcon 9 style legs.

'Quattro' confirmed.

[lightleviathan]

9x4 variant is insane! GS2 in this configuration is effectively just EUS, but mass produced. I can't get over how impressed I am with Blue over the past week.

[sstli2]

Note the picture shows a new launch tower, not a transporter erector.

[Robert_the_Doll]

High quality render showcasing the officially titled 9x4 (9 first stage engines and 4 second stage engines) configuration.

The 9x4 and current 7x2 will fly in tandem based off of customer needs. It should be noted that the 9x4 configuration is labeled as a super-heavy launch vehicle, making it a market competitor to Starship.

Its got Falcon 9 style legs.

The legs are booted to the outside to make room on the inside for the two extra BE-4s, so it makes some sense.

[Starmang10]

High quality render showcasing the officially titled 9x4 (9 first stage engines and 4 second stage engines) configuration.

The 9x4 and current 7x2 will fly in tandem based off of customer needs. It should be noted that the 9x4 configuration is labeled as a super-heavy launch vehicle, making it a market competitor to Starship.

Its got Falcon 9 style legs.

The legs are booted to the outside to make room on the inside for the two extra BE-4s, so it makes some sense.

Along with this, it has a fixed structure at the end so that the legs are set flat on the ground.

[Robert_the_Doll]

https://twitter.com/davill/status/1991544049095045367

[DanClemmensen]

Anyone want to ask Tory Bruno if Vulcan will take advantage of the increased BE-4 thrust (2,847 kN)?

Could be some large cost savings if fewer GEM 63XLs are required ($7 million per solid?).

The SRBs don't just add thrust. They also add propellant. Increased BE-4 thrust will improve the performance and thereby improve the max payload masses for each Vulcan variant, but it's complicated. Also, ULA already took delivery of at least six BE-4 and we do not know what the deal is for upgrades.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Great to see Blue Origin make this official. 

Thrust to weight for the 7x2 should improve closer to 1.3 as a rough guess, perhaps more if the first 2 launches were throttled a bit. 

So these improvements will be phased in starting with NG3.  I'm curious how many of these changes can be incorporated into NG3 if the launch target is Q1.

I'm also curious on the timeline for the 9x4.  Damn that's a big rocket.

So if that's New Steroid Glenn, will there still be a New Armstrong in the future?

[wannamoonbase]

New Glenner.

Newer Glenn or New New Glenn?

I like this thread idea.

More engines
More thrust
Subcooled prop
A booster stretch because of the above improvements
Cheaper upper stage, maybe an optional smaller single engine upper stage
Cutting weight from over engineered systems that now have flight data

You appear to be proposing a hardware-rich iterative design approach, which implies that the existing design is not perfect. This is the thread for Blue Origin's New Glenn. You are clearly on the wrong thread. Maybe a SpaceX thread?

Well, I was thinking that it's Blue and they could apply this to the next 3 or 4 boosters.  So that could be the next 6 years or so, lol.

Now that the BO Newer Glenn info is back up, dam, the 9x4 is a wild machine.

I still wonder if there is room for a cheaper 7x1 for payloads that don't need a super heavy lift mass to orbit but could use the benefit of pricing of a reuseable booster.

Encouraging to see the growth path.