Author Topic: Shuttle Q&A Part 5  (Read 1540753 times)

Offline duane

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #60 on: 06/17/2009 06:41 pm »
I kept reading about the shuttle not flying till the leak was found, and after a  "Thermal Blackout Period"   What is this blackout period ?

Thanks
Duane

Offline MarsMethanogen

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #61 on: 06/17/2009 06:45 pm »
I kept reading about the shuttle not flying till the leak was found, and after a  "Thermal Blackout Period"   What is this blackout period ?

Thanks
Duane

It's called the "beta angle cutout" and here is a link that provides some good information.  Google is your friend.
http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.space.shuttle/2006-08/msg00226.html


Offline Jim

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #62 on: 06/17/2009 07:45 pm »
I kept reading about the shuttle not flying till the leak was found, and after a  "Thermal Blackout Period"   What is this blackout period ?

Thanks
Duane

Seach shuttle Q&A thread 4, it has been answered multiple times

Offline duane

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #63 on: 06/17/2009 07:55 pm »
I kept reading about the shuttle not flying till the leak was found, and after a  "Thermal Blackout Period"   What is this blackout period ?

Thanks
Duane

Seach shuttle Q&A thread 4, it has been answered multiple times
Thanks Jim for the info. I'll go dig there also.  Actually did a little digging and found the video clip of the news conf where "beta cutoff" was used. Did some digging, and found it explained on alternate news sites. Just not the lousy mainstream media for the masses sites.

Offline oxford750

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #64 on: 06/18/2009 01:38 am »
Thanks Jim.



Oxford750

Offline Mach25

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #65 on: 06/18/2009 05:30 pm »
It's called the "beta angle cutout" and here is a link that provides some good information.  Google is your friend.
http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.space.shuttle/2006-08/msg00226.html

Among Space Shuttle flight controllers, beta angle cutouts are also known as "a good time to schedule a vacation."  Otherwise, as Murphy dictates, the next launch will invariably slip into the long awaited trip for which you purchased non-refundable tickets!  ;)

Offline Zero-G

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #66 on: 06/19/2009 08:15 pm »
Please excuse me for digging up my post from page 2 once again, but after mkirk's (and Jorge's) informative and interesting answers, I had a few more questions, which I would like to repeat here.
(It seems like my original post sort of drowned in the posts that followed. ;) )

OMS Assist capability was implemented with the OI-26 software, I will have to check which flight did it first.  From a quick search it looks like it was STS-90 but I seem to remember being in the simulator with John Young (yes name dropping) the night before STS-92 because of cg concerns he had with the OMS assist and subsequent aborts - I thought that was the first flight but I will have to double check I just don't remember but wiki is saying STS-90. STS-90 might have tested the concept prior to an actual heavy station mission.

Mark Kirkman

P.S.

Yep, I checked my notes and it was indeed a test objective on STS-90 which was the neurolab flight and not a station mission.

Have there been any other tests after the first one on STS-90, or was this the only one?
After the test(s), what was the first mission that used OMS Assist?
Since then, which missions have used OMS assist (or which have not, apart from the HST missions)?
Would a LON mission to the ISS also use OMS assist, or would this not be necessary, as there would be no payload on board?
« Last Edit: 06/19/2009 08:20 pm by Zero-G »
"I still don't understand who I am: the first human or the last dog in space." - Yuri Gagarin

Offline rpj

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #67 on: 06/23/2009 02:59 pm »
What is the mechanical component that allows the shuttle, ET and SRB's to complete the "roll over" technique during launch. I would assume that it is the elevon/ailerons or tail of the orbiter.

Offline Crispy

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #68 on: 06/23/2009 03:12 pm »
The SRB nozzles are gimballed to provide roll control during this phase of ascent.

Offline zerm

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #69 on: 06/24/2009 01:22 am »
Seeing the photos of the OAA being removed from LC39B, and looking at the shape of the arm it looks as if it is made up mostly of swing arm #9 from the Apollo LUT. Is that so? can anyone who knows advise?

Offline Jorge

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #70 on: 06/24/2009 01:44 am »
What is the mechanical component that allows the shuttle, ET and SRB's to complete the "roll over" technique during launch. I would assume that it is the elevon/ailerons or tail of the orbiter.

Primarily the SRB gimbals, secondarily the SSME gimbals.

The aerosurfaces are not used for ascent maneuvers at all. To the extent that they are deflected at all, it is only for load relief.
JRF

Offline Nephi

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #71 on: 06/24/2009 10:18 am »
Hi guys, a question about DPS :
The DPS seems to allow switching between some of the major modes (OPS 201 and 202 for example), but apparently it seems impossible to revert back from some modes to the previous one. For example it seems impossible (if you have a look at the DPS dictionnary for instance) to revert back to OPS 303 once OPS 304 was entered.

So three questions in one :
1) is it possible to go back from OPS 304 to OPS 303 for example (and all the other similar configurations) ?
2) if yes how ?
3) if no : how would they do if someone entered OPS 304 too early by mistake ?

Thanks in advance
Nephi

Offline elmarko

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #72 on: 06/24/2009 11:48 am »
I would imagine that it's impossible to go from, for example, OPS 302 to OPS 304, so that's not a problem.

Edit: I've just realised who you are. Hi :)
« Last Edit: 06/24/2009 11:48 am by elmarko »

Offline psloss

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #73 on: 06/24/2009 10:56 pm »
I have researched this question (curious myself):
#1  STS-1 (102) days on Pad
#2  STS-122 (89) days on Pad (Eco Sensor issue)
#3  STS-127 (85) days (if launched on 7/11)

Note: STS-35 had (109) "non-continuous" days split between Pad-A/B but briefly rolled back to VAB (hydrogen leaks).
Going through some old threads and wanted to add some additional trivia.

I think STS-6 has the record (and probably will keep it) for a continuous pad stay.  Jenkins has the stay at Pad A as 126 days...rollout was 30 November 1982, launch was 4 April 1983.  This included two FRFs and removal/reinstallation of all the main engines at the pad.  (And removal/reinstallation of the TDRS-A payload, too.)

STS-26 was out on Pad B for 88 days.  (Rollout 4 July 1988, launch 29 September 1988.)

As with the STS-35 vehicle, the STS-38 vehicle also spent a long time out on the pad, with a orbiter destack in between.

For STS-35, it was originally rolled out to Pad A on 22 April 1990 during the second STS-31 countdown.  After 50 days which included a launch attempt and additional tankings, it was rolled back to the VAB on 13 June.  It was then rolled back out to Pad A on 9 August 1990, where additional attempts to launch were made in September.  On 8 October, it was rolled around from Pad A to Pad B, and then the next day rolled back to the VAB to avoid a tropical storm.  That covers the 109 days, but doesn't include the additional 48 days for the last pad stay -- rollout to Pad B on 14 October for another tanking test prior to launch on 2 December 1990.  So there were ~157 days on the pad for that vehicle (with the rollbacks and rollaround mixed in) between late April and early December that year.

The STS-38 vehicle only had one rollback...first rollout on 18 June 1990 for 52 days at Pad A, rolling back on 9 August 1990 (in the well-remembered two-step fashion).  It was then rolled out to Pad A on 12 October 1990 and launched on 15 November.  That vehicle ended up with ~86 days on the pad with the rollback and destacking in between.

(The STS-114 "vehicles" were out on the pad in a similar fashion in 2005.)

The STS-127 vehicle of course has also had a rollaround, with approximately one shift where it was in-between pads.  So the possible 85 days would be split into ~43 days on Pad B and ~42 days on Pad A.

Offline ChrisGebhardt

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #74 on: 06/25/2009 02:46 am »
It's called the "beta angle cutout" and here is a link that provides some good information.  Google is your friend.
http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.space.shuttle/2006-08/msg00226.html

Among Space Shuttle flight controllers, beta angle cutouts are also known as "a good time to schedule a vacation."  Otherwise, as Murphy dictates, the next launch will invariably slip into the long awaited trip for which you purchased non-refundable tickets!  ;)

Hey... that's me for any launch in July!!!!!!! Non-refundable tickets... vacation... and now a potential Shuttle launch!

Offline Mach25

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #75 on: 06/26/2009 01:56 pm »
It's called the "beta angle cutout" and here is a link that provides some good information.  Google is your friend.
http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.space.shuttle/2006-08/msg00226.html

Among Space Shuttle flight controllers, beta angle cutouts are also known as "a good time to schedule a vacation."  Otherwise, as Murphy dictates, the next launch will invariably slip into the long awaited trip for which you purchased non-refundable tickets!  ;)

Hey... that's me for any launch in July!!!!!!! Non-refundable tickets... vacation... and now a potential Shuttle launch!

Ah yes, proof that even Murphy obeys Newton's 3rd law of motion.

Offline Danny Dot

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #76 on: 06/26/2009 05:14 pm »
Hi guys, a question about DPS :
The DPS seems to allow switching between some of the major modes (OPS 201 and 202 for example), but apparently it seems impossible to revert back from some modes to the previous one. For example it seems impossible (if you have a look at the DPS dictionnary for instance) to revert back to OPS 303 once OPS 304 was entered.

So three questions in one :
1) is it possible to go back from OPS 304 to OPS 303 for example (and all the other similar configurations) ?
2) if yes how ?
3) if no : how would they do if someone entered OPS 304 too early by mistake ?

Thanks in advance
Nephi

Yes, some OPS are a oneway street.  I have been out the training business for a while, so don't trust what I say 100%.

On going to 304 by mistake, I am assuming you haven't done the deorbit burn yet.  I think you could somehow take your time and if nothing else go back to OPS 2.  BFS engage could be an option if it didn't also go over.  I don't remember if BFS does what is called a DK listen to the command to PASS to go the 304, or if the crew has to take if over separately. 

Please forgive me if this is all lies.  Even in my prime, I wasn't a DPS instructor.  But I used to know this stuff pretty good as a control/prop instructor.

I do know going in and out of the OPS 2 mode to do an orbit burn is two way.  I can't remember the number of the modes.  I think it is 201 and 202.

Danny Deger

Where did you get a DPS dictionary.  Make sure it is on L2.  I bet Chris would trade you some L2 time for a DPS dictionary if he doesn't already have on.

Danny Deger

Offline elmarko

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #77 on: 06/26/2009 05:34 pm »
Hi guys, a question about DPS :
The DPS seems to allow switching between some of the major modes (OPS 201 and 202 for example), but apparently it seems impossible to revert back from some modes to the previous one. For example it seems impossible (if you have a look at the DPS dictionnary for instance) to revert back to OPS 303 once OPS 304 was entered.

So three questions in one :
1) is it possible to go back from OPS 304 to OPS 303 for example (and all the other similar configurations) ?
2) if yes how ?
3) if no : how would they do if someone entered OPS 304 too early by mistake ?

Thanks in advance
Nephi

Yes, some OPS are a oneway street.  I have been out the training business for a while, so don't trust what I say 100%.

On going to 304 by mistake, I am assuming you haven't done the deorbit burn yet.  I think you could somehow take your time and if nothing else go back to OPS 2.  BFS engage could be an option if it didn't also go over.  I don't remember if BFS does what is called a DK listen to the command to PASS to go the 304, or if the crew has to take if over separately. 

Please forgive me if this is all lies.  Even in my prime, I wasn't a DPS instructor.  But I used to know this stuff pretty good as a control/prop instructor.

I do know going in and out of the OPS 2 mode to do an orbit burn is two way.  I can't remember the number of the modes.  I think it is 201 and 202.

Danny Deger

Where did you get a DPS dictionary.  Make sure it is on L2.  I bet Chris would trade you some L2 time for a DPS dictionary if he doesn't already have on.

There was a very old DPS dictionary somewhere on the public internet, dated 1997. It was the first one I ever got. Can't remember where though.

As for OPS 201 <-> OPS 202 this is indeed two-way. 201 is for burns, 202 is for payload bay doors.

If you went into the wrong mode on orbit, then with a long process you could reload another mode. I imagine you couldn't do something like 301 -> 303, because you'd get an ILLEGAL ENTRY on the CRT I guess?

I don't have time to check right now, but there's a reason that you have to enter commands then check them before you PRO or EXEC. Slowly does it! :)
« Last Edit: 06/26/2009 05:34 pm by elmarko »

Offline AnalogMan

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #78 on: 06/26/2009 05:48 pm »
Where did you get a DPS dictionary.  Make sure it is on L2.  I bet Chris would trade you some L2 time for a DPS dictionary if he doesn't already have on.

Danny,

A copy of the DPS Dictionary - Generic Rev K PCN-8 (Oct 8, 2008) is available on L2.  For those with access the link is:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=14971.0

Offline Jorge

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Re: Shuttle Q&A Part 5
« Reply #79 on: 06/26/2009 07:11 pm »

As for OPS 201 <-> OPS 202 this is indeed two-way. 201 is for burns, 202 is for payload bay doors.

Not quite. You're describing two different major functions. Burns fall under the GNC major function (and it's 202, not 201), and PL bay doors fall under the SM major function.

GNC OPS 201 - orbit coast
GNC OPS 202 - orbit burns
SM OPS 201 - normal orbit ops
SM OPS 202 - PL bay doors

You can transition both ways (201<->202) *within* a major function, but not *across* major functions.

In PASS, GNC OPS 2 and SM OPS 2 are different memory configs (i.e. they can't run on the same GPC at the same time). Typically during orbit ops GPCs 1, 2, and 3 are loaded with PASS GNC OPS 2 and GPC 4 is loaded with PASS SM OPS 2. GPC 5 is loaded with BFS, but the BFS does not have OPS 2, of course...
JRF

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