LIVE: Atlas V 401 - TDRS-M - August 18, 2017

[woods170]

no, Falcon has been eligible to fly the previous TDRS missions

Possibly. But did SpaceX even bother to bid for this launch, or the previous ones?

Also, one needs to remind that for NASA launch cost is not the only factor in the decision to award a TDRS launch to a certain provider. Other factors are in play as well, and there are a number of those that very much favor Atlas V.
Most notably the fact that a very substantial part of the bandwith of the TDRS network is reserved for national security purposes. And while this particular launch may have been up for bidding by SpaceX, under the restrictions set by the national security community, the previous ones were most definitely not.

http://spacenews.com/37021leaked-documents-offer-snapshot-of-nro-activity/

The geostationary-orbiting TDRS system’s nominal purpose is to allow NASA to communicate at all times with its low-orbiting spacecraft, including the international space station, but officials with the civil space agency have acknowledged that the Department of Defense is the primary user of the system and provides most of the funding.

It is a public secret that USAF capacity is often used as a 'front' for NRO activities. TDRS is no exception. NASA official admitting that TDRS is mostly used by DoD is also admitting that TDRS is often used by NRO.

[Brovane]

Also, one needs to remind that for NASA launch cost is not the only factor in the decision to award a TDRS launch to a certain provider. Other factors are in play as well, and there are a number of those that very much favor Atlas V[/b]

What other factors are you saying that favor the Atlas-V?  I am coming up with reliability and on schedule launch. 

[baldusi]

Already integrated? That would reduce the Atlas V cost wrt F9. Besides, Falcon 9 was Category 2 certified and that means "some B", not all.

[Brovane]

Already integrated? That would reduce the Atlas V cost wrt F9. Besides, Falcon 9 was Category 2 certified and that means "some B", not all.

From the information that Jim provided the a launch provider can bid on a contract without a certified launch vehicle.  In 2012 SpaceX bid $82 Million for the Jason-3 launch.  For the TDRS-M ULA got the contract with a bid of $132 Million.  Makes me wonder if SpaceX even bid on the contract or what other factors came into play in the decision. 

[Star One]

no, Falcon has been eligible to fly the previous TDRS missions

Possibly. But did SpaceX even bother to bid for this launch, or the previous ones?

Also, one needs to remind that for NASA launch cost is not the only factor in the decision to award a TDRS launch to a certain provider. Other factors are in play as well, and there are a number of those that very much favor Atlas V.
Most notably the fact that a very substantial part of the bandwith of the TDRS network is reserved for national security purposes. And while this particular launch may have been up for bidding by SpaceX, under the restrictions set by the national security community, the previous ones were most definitely not.

http://spacenews.com/37021leaked-documents-offer-snapshot-of-nro-activity/

The geostationary-orbiting TDRS system’s nominal purpose is to allow NASA to communicate at all times with its low-orbiting spacecraft, including the international space station, but officials with the civil space agency have acknowledged that the Department of Defense is the primary user of the system and provides most of the funding.

It is a public secret that USAF capacity is often used as a 'front' for NRO activities. TDRS is no exception. NASA official admitting that TDRS is mostly used by DoD is also admitting that TDRS is often used by NRO.

Surely NASA must get some degree of use out of them, after all they are used for ISS communications as far as I am aware.

[woods170]

no, Falcon has been eligible to fly the previous TDRS missions

Possibly. But did SpaceX even bother to bid for this launch, or the previous ones?

Also, one needs to remind that for NASA launch cost is not the only factor in the decision to award a TDRS launch to a certain provider. Other factors are in play as well, and there are a number of those that very much favor Atlas V.
Most notably the fact that a very substantial part of the bandwith of the TDRS network is reserved for national security purposes. And while this particular launch may have been up for bidding by SpaceX, under the restrictions set by the national security community, the previous ones were most definitely not.

http://spacenews.com/37021leaked-documents-offer-snapshot-of-nro-activity/

The geostationary-orbiting TDRS system’s nominal purpose is to allow NASA to communicate at all times with its low-orbiting spacecraft, including the international space station, but officials with the civil space agency have acknowledged that the Department of Defense is the primary user of the system and provides most of the funding.

It is a public secret that USAF capacity is often used as a 'front' for NRO activities. TDRS is no exception. NASA official admitting that TDRS is mostly used by DoD is also admitting that TDRS is often used by NRO.

Surely NASA must get some degree of use out of them, after all they are used for ISS communications as far as I am aware.

Correct. NASA uses the system also. However, as NASA officials related to Mike: DoD is the primary user and primary funding provider of TDRS.

[Star One]

no, Falcon has been eligible to fly the previous TDRS missions

Possibly. But did SpaceX even bother to bid for this launch, or the previous ones?

Also, one needs to remind that for NASA launch cost is not the only factor in the decision to award a TDRS launch to a certain provider. Other factors are in play as well, and there are a number of those that very much favor Atlas V.
Most notably the fact that a very substantial part of the bandwith of the TDRS network is reserved for national security purposes. And while this particular launch may have been up for bidding by SpaceX, under the restrictions set by the national security community, the previous ones were most definitely not.

http://spacenews.com/37021leaked-documents-offer-snapshot-of-nro-activity/

The geostationary-orbiting TDRS system’s nominal purpose is to allow NASA to communicate at all times with its low-orbiting spacecraft, including the international space station, but officials with the civil space agency have acknowledged that the Department of Defense is the primary user of the system and provides most of the funding.

It is a public secret that USAF capacity is often used as a 'front' for NRO activities. TDRS is no exception. NASA official admitting that TDRS is mostly used by DoD is also admitting that TDRS is often used by NRO.

Surely NASA must get some degree of use out of them, after all they are used for ISS communications as far as I am aware.

Correct. NASA uses the system also. However, as NASA officials related to Mike: DoD is the primary user and primary funding provider of TDRS.

Are NASA likely to request more bandwidth on them once the commercial crew vehicles come into use & they expand the number of permanent crew onboard ISS?

[Jim]

NASA doesn't request.  It is a NASA system.  NASA allocates the bandwidth.

[Star One]

NASA doesn't request.  It is a NASA system.  NASA allocates the bandwidth.

Oh it sounded like it was round the other way so thanks for the clarification.

[kevin-rf]

Just curious, An no I don't expect anyone can provide a real answer, but how similar to GEO SDS satellites are TDRS satellites? They seem to serve the same purpose for some of the same users. Seems like TDRS has one extra customer, NASA... I just wonder.

[Jim]

[woods170]

NASA doesn't request.  It is a NASA system.  NASA allocates the bandwidth.

Oh it sounded like it was round the other way so thanks for the clarification.

People need to remember that the owner of a given system does not necessarily has to be the primary user of, let alone be the primary funding provider for, that system.
That is exactly what is going on here:
- TDRS is a NASA-owned system
- NASA allocates bandwidth, but...
- Primary user is DoD.
- Primary funding provider is DoD.
- Secondary user is NASA
- Secondary funding provider is NASA.

So although the TDRS system is officially a NASA system it is mostly used by the DoD. The latter being the primary user will likely result in NASA allocating a majority of the system's bandwidth to DoD, not to themselves.

[kevin-rf]

Jim,

I believe both of your images are first generation SDS spin stabilized satellites that predate TDRS. Was second generation SDS spin stabilized and are current generation SDS satellites spin stabilized? So I get back to, I wonder how similar the two are.

Now if we get a little off topic and venture towards the historic, Second generation SDS are said to contain an early warning IR package, so spin stabilize would make sense. But, correct me if I am wrong, current SBIRS high packages are sit and stare sensors that are co hosted on what are believed to be SDS satellites. So they must be three axis stabilized, correct... So I get back to the question I know I can not get an answer for... The only key difference is as a hosted package the SBIRS High host must be structurally different from a satellite that does not host a similar package. But SBIRS GEO are not hosted on GEO SDS, so we get back to the same TDRS question.

Anyway, I return us to looking forward to the TDRS-M launch.

[Jim]

Jim,

I believe both of your images are first generation SDS spin stabilized satellites that predate TDRS. Was second generation SDS spin stabilized and are current generation SDS satellites spin stabilized? So I get back to, I wonder how similar the two are.

Those pics are of the 2nd gen

[vapour_nudge]

Is there a tail number assigned to this Atlas launch yet?

[russianhalo117]

Is there a tail number assigned to this Atlas launch yet?

Current launch order and launch date state AV tail sequence number of AV-084.

As always this is subject to change

[Newton_V]

Is there a tail number assigned to this Atlas launch yet?

No.

[WHAP]

Is there a tail number assigned to this Atlas launch yet?

Current launch order and launch date state AV tail sequence number of AV-084.

As always this is subject to change

Is there a tail number assigned to this Atlas launch yet?

No.

Neither is correct.  There IS a vehicle (tail number) assignment for TDRS-M that is currently NOT AV-084, but russianhalo117 is correct that it is subject to change, and it probably will change again shortly.  And the launch day is not in 2017.  Chasing this data more than a year and a half before launch is a waste of time, IMO.

[jacqmans]

Boeing Completes Satellite for NASA TDRS Constellation Ahead of Contract Schedule

Spacecraft enables continuous communication with International Space Station, Hubble Telescope


El Segundo, Calif., April 12, 2016 – Boeing [NYSE: BA] has completed, and delivered to storage, the last in a series of satellites for NASA’s Tracking and Data Relay Satellite (TDRS) constellation. TDRS-M is the sixth Boeing-built satellite for the NASA network providing high-bandwidth communications to spacecraft in low Earth orbit. Programs using the system include those supporting human space flight, the International Space Station, the Hubble Space Telescope, the Earth Observing System and several launch vehicles.

This is the second block of Boeing-built TDRS spacecraft. The company delivered the first three (TDRS-H, -I and –J) in 2000-2002. The first two satellites of the second block (TDRS-K and –L) were launched in 2013 and 2014. The last satellite, TDRS-M, was completed ahead of the contract schedule and within budget at the end of 2015.

“Boeing’s advanced TDRS satellites provide NASA with greater bandwidth at an affordable cost, helping them provide additional capacity for this critical communications relay network,” said Dan Hart, vice president, Boeing Government Satellite Systems. “We are continuing to invest in technologies that could enable communications for future NASA near-Earth, moon, Mars and deep space missions.”

NASA has given Boeing its formal “consent to store” the satellite at Boeing’s Satellite Development Center in El Segundo, Calif., until it’s ready for deployment. TDRS-M is expected to launch on a United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket in 2017.

Boeing has provided space communication services to NASA for more than 40 years, and has been NASA’s sole provider of tracking and data relay satellites since 1995.

Boeing and its heritage companies have been advancing satellite technology for more than 50 years. Continuing investments in space are helping the company retain its industry leadership as it begins its second century in 2016.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

#TDRSM begins final testing. Scheduled for launch Aug 3 from @NASAKennedy on @ulalaunch Atlas V rocket. #TDRS
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2017/nasa-s-tdrs-m-space-communications-satellite-begins-final-testing

https://twitter.com/nasascan/status/831188631708659712

Looks a bit alien to me ...