Manned Mars Lander

[TaylorR137]

Cross sections will be forthcoming, the project is actually more software than a specific vehicle design. You specify the vehicle exterior shape, calculate Newtonian aerodynamics, EDL trajectories, etc. It's meant to be easy for anyone to use. (E.g. A five year old mashing buttons will still result in a functioning spacecraft) You get to choose engine and landing gear configurations, place tanks and habitable volumes, reactors or solar panels, structures, heat shields, etc. All of which effect the center of gravity and trajectories. The core game mechanic is design and analysis rather than real time flying, with crowd sourced subsystems.

[RanulfC]

Cross sections will be forthcoming, the project is actually more software than a specific vehicle design. You specify the vehicle exterior shape, calculate Newtonian aerodynamics, EDL trajectories, etc. It's meant to be easy for anyone to use. (E.g. A five year old mashing buttons will still result in a functioning spacecraft) You get to choose engine and landing gear configurations, place tanks and habitable volumes, reactors or solar panels, structures, heat shields, etc. All of which effect the center of gravity and trajectories. The core game mechanic is design and analysis rather than real time flying, with crowd sourced subsystems.

But the vehicle designs are so COOL!

I see the "Shuttle" as a Dragon-III design capable of going to the Moon and back. (I also noted that the LV is very "Falcon-9 Heavy" like as well and the "SpaceX" on the Hydra

Randy

[RanulfC]

And does the artist do commission work?

Randy

[Rocket Science]

Here's my concept "Space Shuttle 2.0" - 10m x 30m - same basic EDL as DRM5, ~100 tons at Mars Entry.

The idea is to get a Mars mission (or moon, or asteroid) out of a single SLS launch with in orbit rendezvous of commercially delivered fuel in drop tanks, which makes for a good low cost payload for RLVs, optimized and program survivability rather than IMLEO. The concept artist (Stanley Von Medvey) sketched it launching on FX Heavy though as he's a SpaceX fan. Also shown is an inflatable habitat that could be left in Mars orbit before EDL.

At the core of the vehicle is an elevator that doubles as a drilling rig for water for methane ISRU.

The legs double as control surfaces similar to hypersonic test vehicles.

Nice artwork there! The hatch on the nose is a little iffy being a high heat area, I'd rather see the Hab on top near the Flight deck. Keep up the good work! 

[JasonAW3]

Cross sections will be forthcoming, the project is actually more software than a specific vehicle design. You specify the vehicle exterior shape, calculate Newtonian aerodynamics, EDL trajectories, etc. It's meant to be easy for anyone to use. (E.g. A five year old mashing buttons will still result in a functioning spacecraft) You get to choose engine and landing gear configurations, place tanks and habitable volumes, reactors or solar panels, structures, heat shields, etc. All of which effect the center of gravity and trajectories. The core game mechanic is design and analysis rather than real time flying, with crowd sourced subsystems.

So,

      Where can I get a copy of this software?

Jason

[TaylorR137]

And does the artist do commission work?

Randy

He does indeed. http://www.stanleyvonmedvey.com

Cross sections will be forthcoming, the project is actually more software than a specific vehicle design. You specify the vehicle exterior shape, calculate Newtonian aerodynamics, EDL trajectories, etc. It's meant to be easy for anyone to use. (E.g. A five year old mashing buttons will still result in a functioning spacecraft) You get to choose engine and landing gear configurations, place tanks and habitable volumes, reactors or solar panels, structures, heat shields, etc. All of which effect the center of gravity and trajectories. The core game mechanic is design and analysis rather than real time flying, with crowd sourced subsystems.

So,

      Where can I get a copy of this software?

Jason

It's not out yet, I'm working on getting the demo functioning then launching a crowdfunding campaign.

The software will be free. I'm funding the endeavor by selling custom 3d prints of designs. Hopefully a few of those will end up in wind tunnels!

[TaylorR137]

Here's another piece of concept art, something halfway between Space Shuttle 2.0 and Hydra

[Lars_J]

Here's another piece of concept art, something halfway between Space Shuttle 2.0 and Hydra

That is very cool... The smaller size of this concept looks similar to stretched a F9/FH payload fairing, with similar "legs" as the concept on the earlier stage.

[TaylorR137]

Here's another piece of concept art, something halfway between Space Shuttle 2.0 and Hydra

That is very cool... The smaller size of this concept looks similar to stretched a F9/FH payload fairing, with similar "legs" as the concept on the earlier stage.

Indeed. I should note while I commissioned the Space Shuttle 2.0 artwork Stanley did Hydra and this piece on his own, I take no credit. Its also worth mentioning both were done before SpaceX revealed their own landing gear designs or the specifications for Raptor.

[JasonAW3]

And does the artist do commission work?

Randy

He does indeed. http://www.stanleyvonmedvey.com

Cross sections will be forthcoming, the project is actually more software than a specific vehicle design. You specify the vehicle exterior shape, calculate Newtonian aerodynamics, EDL trajectories, etc. It's meant to be easy for anyone to use. (E.g. A five year old mashing buttons will still result in a functioning spacecraft) You get to choose engine and landing gear configurations, place tanks and habitable volumes, reactors or solar panels, structures, heat shields, etc. All of which effect the center of gravity and trajectories. The core game mechanic is design and analysis rather than real time flying, with crowd sourced subsystems.

So,

      Where can I get a copy of this software?

Jason

It's not out yet, I'm working on getting the demo functioning then launching a crowdfunding campaign.

The software will be free. I'm funding the endeavor by selling custom 3d prints of designs. Hopefully a few of those will end up in wind tunnels!

Does it handle wind tunnel testing?

     I've got a few designs I want to test out, including a blended wing in body lifting body hybrid I want to test out.

Jason

[TaylorR137]

Alright this will be my last post spilling details but I thought I'd show some of the 3D printed prototypes and the visual style of the software before getting back to work. I've got to get the demo wrapped up and the crowd funding campaign launched ASAP as I'm borrowing money just to pay rent!

The first Image shows lift (green) and drag (red) coefficients at all angles of attack, the exterior of a ship in the first stage of design, and the torque about its center of gravity on the right with equilibrium angles of attack as the radial lines. Airflow is from left to right.

The 3D prints are 1:200 and 1:100 scale, with the Space Shuttle orbiter model from the NASA website printed for comparison. The coloring of the model surface is the Newtonian pressure coefficient.

The last 1:100 model is the closest to a cross section I can show for now, though the tanks in the nose are omitted. This model was infused with a thermoplastic resin for strength, given that it must not flex under the ~100lb compressive load of the steel "tethers"  .

www.TaylorRatliff.com

 

[TaylorR137]

     I've got a few designs I want to test out, including a blended wing in body lifting body hybrid I want to test out.
Does it handle wind tunnel testing?
Jason

The full version will output 3D models with stings or holes at the center of gravity for you to order or print yourself. Once you do the testing you can submit the data and use it in the EDL simulations, overriding the Newtonian method. This is still a work in progress though, and certainly won't be part of the demo.

[Hyperion5]

Aim your orbital mirrors at relatively unstable solid carbon dioxide in the area you intend to land; immediately before your land there.  Transient localized increase in atmospheric pressure will increase drag and downmass. 

Feel free to take that one @boredelonmusk!

That sure sounds like whoever has that Twitter account.  Btw, have we reached any sort of consensus about what the ideal mass range would be for a manned Mars lander?  It appears to me we've agreed that it needs to be at least 40 tonnes in mass, with 50 tonnes being a more ideal minimum.  Does anyone believe there is a maximum feasible lander mass?  Or at least not see the lander exceeding a certain mass?

[MickQ]

Considering the numbers being accredited to MCT and Raptor in the SpaceX threads I don't think there will be a "Limit"  to what can be landed.  I think it is all going to depend on who requires what in their lander, eg Lander only, MDV/MAV, add a hab, add a hab/rover, ISRU plant, etc.  Where do you stop ?

Mick.

[SKK]

Hi, I came across concepts from user TaylorR137 on page 3, how can I either find more renders of the author or contact him?.. Just asking for help.

[TaylorR137]

Hi, I came across concepts from user TaylorR137 on page 3, how can I either find more renders of the author or contact him?.. Just asking for help.

The artist that did the sketches is Stanley Von Medvey. I posted some very basic renders I made with scripts, which were you referring to?

https://www.stanleyvonmedvey.com/

[SKK]

Yes, about your drawings that you dropped here. Tell us about the script?.. If you can, of course.

Also here's another photo, I can see the cabin of this ship.

[SKK]

Yes, about your drawings that you dropped here. Tell us about the script?.. If you can, of course.

Also here's another photo, I can see the cabin of this ship.

Okay.. But where else can I find you besides this forum?

[JulesVerneATV]

He’s been to space, ran NASA and can do 40 pushups at IHOP. Here’s why Bill Nelson thinks Musk must rethink his Mars plan
https://www.independent.co.uk/space/nasa-mars-musk-bill-nelson-spacex-b2844667.html


Moon to Mars Architecture from Mars lacking detail on Lander?
https://web.archive.org/web/20250206183731/https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/rev-a-acr23-esdmd-001-m2madd.pdf
' Additionally, the 2023 ADD includes the lunar surface element additions of the Human-class Delivery Lander, Lunar Terrain Vehicle, and the Pressurized Rover to enable greater exploration access across the lunar South Pole. Study of needs to support objectives and integration across the Foundational Exploration segment also led to the inclusion of four additional sub-architectures'

Parachute + airbags should be sufficient for food deliveries to Mars.

s/food deliveries/bulk goods and materials/

Musk has done great but Starship did show some issues, different problems however what Elon Musk and Space-X have done has forever changed the space industry for the better. I am of the opinion the Moon isnt much of a prize when it comes to colonization, over the years I have changed my mind now thinking robots can go first and have it all ready before the human arrives. Mars might have serious issues to also more hazardous than some of our most polluted Earth regions, less atmosphere than the highest point on Earth and even Antarctica is more welcoming but Mars is a lot better than our Moon for colonization. What you put in the lander will depend on the goal, is it a political flag planting mission or is it a direct mission to settle the Martian surface and build villages and towns, a long term goal devoted to the colonization of Mars. NASA is an Aeronautics and Space Agency of scientific study, it is not in the business of colonization unless a US Leader re-directs NASA with a stated goal of colonization.


Do space advocates wish a quick flag planting mission for a political win against say 'China' or would Mars people want development of long term scientific study with people and long term settlement? Starship if it gets working will change orbit costs, it seems to be the correct philosophy and wont be beaten unless humans figure out some new 'magic' scifi solution like a Space elevator? SpaceX with reusable rockets has shown the way and aims to slash the cost of reaching orbit from thousands of dollars per kilogram to just $100—or even $10/kg, when you land on Mars you need to already have the ability to make air, water, food, supplies for manufacture of methane on Mars for humans who want to go on the return journey home.


I think the human lander would be packed with stuff essential to keep humans alive. I am not really a human first to Mars anymore, the machines and robots and chatbots could be the first steps and a Library of culture information telling people where they came from like the 'Voyager Golden Record'.  I believe AI diggers, walking driving robots could build the Mars farms, the Martian industry and manufacturing and run farmings and chemical processing long before humans arrive. I believe the Human Mars lander should hold lots of medical supplies, spare parts for the robots or computers, whatever high tech manufacturing industrial parts or filters are used to make essential liquids, gasses, foods etc By the time humans arrive and knowing what exactly is in those rocks or that 'Mars Dirt' by way of sample return we should already know the challenges that will be faced in building 'stuff' we should already know 'in situ' improvisation methods to build and use the resources available on Mars. Humanity might already have a working Nuclear power for a town before the human even gets to step on Mars. The civilization on Mars could be a long process with a timeline of different competitive political ideas, the people that arrive on Mars could one day have kids, its possible they will 'out live' the cultures where they came from and be part of a new culture.  Just as Yugoslavia no longer exists or East Germany, West Germany, North Vietnam, South Vietnam, the Kingdom of Hawaii, the Catalan Republic, the Second Mexican Empire, the Soviet Political Satellite Country the Republic of Afghanistan, Third Republic of Venezuela, the Empire of Brazil, United Arab Republic some of these new colonist people might arrive on Mars and raise a new culture but they may be coming from cultures and languages and cities that no longer exist. Its possible that humans could be at a disadvantage in colonization when compared to the new machine enhanced people or 'Cyborg' of the future. The manned Mars lander could bring physical copies of 'stuff', it could be any number of desired items that connect to Earth, Fountain Pens feather and ink from a famous political peace treaty or novelist, old exploration maps, a bank note a coin, a compass or ruler, children's physical toys, an artists paint brush, a penny whistle, the celebrated poems that kids recite on Mars if US culture dominates it could be American poets, maybe British, Australian English speakers, if Chinese colonies are more successful maybe the poems will be from the Chinese language or Eastern culture. Politics and 'Culture' is part of space, it has been since the launch of the first satellite, the first animals and humans to space. Whatever culture is most successful in Mars colonization will probably influence the culture, influence the art and names of villages or new choices of culture items from settlers and these settlers would have their own customs ideas that expand across Mars. The material that is too big too heavy or costly to ship maybe some type of plastic mimic copy could be printed on Mars and put in a 'Must Visit Museums' of Mars. The ship or 'Manned Mars' will depend on the goal, is the goal for the USA or Space-X or the Chinese to go there and say 'We Are The Best' and get a political win or is it a long term scientific study and long term colonization goal? Musk's stories of sending 100 passengers to Mars and then hundreds upon hundreds more is a totally different type of mission and Mars immigrants and using colonial ships for starting colonies and trade and profit is far different than two guys planting flags.

and a 'Doctor' would be important, for whatever future possibility of negative events that may happen, psychological well being is important. We dont know what will happen on Mars or on the trip to Mars, a robot doctor that can do surgery is important, or maybe monitoring just checking on crew morale, if you plan on sending a hundred people then one Earth-day you might get an email or unforeseen news update something like the Skylab “Strike” or MIR mutiny or any of the 'events' that happened during long term isolation at the Earth's South Pole research stations.