Author Topic: Terraforming the Moon with comets  (Read 21930 times)

Online meberbs

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3096
  • Liked: 3379
  • Likes Given: 777
Re: Terraforming the Moon with comets
« Reply #40 on: 09/11/2017 06:40 am »
There is never enough data. And when there is no data, the argument is that you have to at least spend a few billion to disprove something that is likely false (i.e. methane on Mars, microbes on Mars, accessible water in the Moon's Shackleton crater, etc)
If you don't have enough data, how do you know it is likely false?

I don't understand why the claim is that nobody hasn't sent a probe to discover this already.  There are dozens of probes that have been used to look for ice in a variety of locations.  There is no evidence of anything accessible.  If there ever was evidence, it would have been questioned to non-existence.

The closest evidence of ice might be Enceladus.  But there isn't a clear singular data point about accessible ice, or oxygen, or the ability to generate oxygen.
Just to start with, there is lots of water closer than Enceladus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_on_Mars

Not that that water would be any more useful for terraforming the moon then Enceladus, but at least try to use facts. Besides which you still seem to be ignoring that comets contain significant amounts of water.

I don't particularly think terraforming the moon is a good idea, or that using comets to do it would be feasible, however you are just continuously spreading misinformation.

Offline Dao Angkan

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 233
  • Liked: 77
  • Likes Given: 44
Re: Terraforming the Moon with comets
« Reply #41 on: 02/04/2018 03:27 pm »
The moon could retain an argon atmosphere indefinitely if cold enough (argon's boiling point is 87.3 K), and whilst 02 (boiling point 90.2 K) would be gradually lost on geological timescales, it probably wouldn't be noticeable on human timescales, and could be topped up from lunar resources if required.

So if you use solar shades to make it not too much warmer than Titan and import lots of argon, along with local production of O2, then you could create a long-lived breathable (as long as you pre-heat it first) atmosphere. I'm not sure why anyone would be actually motivated to do that, though.

Offline Hominans Kosmos

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 273
  • Vacuum dweller
  • Tallinn
  • Liked: 166
  • Likes Given: 3333
Re: Terraforming the Moon with comets
« Reply #42 on: 02/19/2018 06:37 am »
The moon could retain an argon atmosphere indefinitely if cold enough (argon's boiling point is 87.3 K), and whilst 02 (boiling point 90.2 K) would be gradually lost on geological timescales, it probably wouldn't be noticeable on human timescales, and could be topped up from lunar resources if required.

So if you use solar shades to make it not too much warmer than Titan and import lots of argon, along with local production of O2, then you could create a long-lived breathable (as long as you pre-heat it first) atmosphere. I'm not sure why anyone would be actually motivated to do that, though.

Perhaps to make it even less hospitable to human life than it is already? Might be easier with lasers instead of mirrors. Besides the impracticality of living in cryogenic temperatures, argon is practically magic, with it's low abundance. I mean there might be a lot of it in the cores of the gas giants but thats the same as not having any.

Someone with not enough math to do could compare the energy expenditure of dropping the orbital altitude of ammonia in comets to lifting it from the armospheres of Titan and Venus.

Offline Pete

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 767
  • Cubicle
  • Liked: 1028
  • Likes Given: 395
Re: Terraforming the Moon with comets
« Reply #43 on: 03/04/2018 01:36 pm »
There's an interesting article that proposes that ~100 Halley's-sized comets could add both volatiles and angular momentum to the Moon: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2014/07/terraforming_the_moon_it_would_be_a_lot_like_florida.html

If they impact at the right angle and speed they could reduce the lunar day duration from 28 days to 60 hours, reducing temperature extremes. If desired they could also tilt a bit the axis of rotation of the Moon to create Earth-like seasons.


Umm, no.
Impacting 100 comets of similar mass to Halley's comet, at the moon surface (say into a convenient mountain), at a speed of 90km/s (i'm being very generous, assume you can sling your comets real hard, retrograde to earth's solar orbit, etc...) AND somehow absorbing 100% of the momentum, would.....

Increase its rotational speed from 1 turn per 2360621 seconds to 1 turn per 2360587 seconds.
In less than 5900 YEARS, the moon would have turned once more than it currently does.

To just double the moon's rotation using Halleys-comet size impactors, at 90km/s, with 100% absorption of impact, would require 7.2 million impacts.


Offline spacenut

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5181
  • East Alabama
  • Liked: 2587
  • Likes Given: 2895
Re: Terraforming the Moon with comets
« Reply #44 on: 03/04/2018 02:21 pm »
I think terraforming Mars is a much better idea.  The moon would take way more effort.  Mars already has an atmosphere, a 24+ hour day and is colder to not boil off some elements.  It also has water.  Long term future of humanity, I see more use of O'Neil cylinders as someone mentioned.  These can be built from mined elements from Earth, Mars, the moon, asteroids, and the moons of the larger planets. 

Offline Vahe231991

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1689
  • 11 Canyon Terrace
  • Liked: 462
  • Likes Given: 199
Re: Terraforming the Moon with comets
« Reply #45 on: 08/08/2023 03:24 pm »
I found an article from 2022 explaining how to terraform the Moon with comets:
Quote
If there isn't enough water, we'll need to import water to the moon, likely by impacting comets or asteroids bearing water on the surface. A healthy hydrosphere is vital to regulate temperature and support plant life....

We will need to literally move mountains by sending asteroids and comets to collide with the moon. We'll potentially need to add oceans of water and build mirrors and shades that are hundreds of kilometres long. Frankly, it isn't possible yet.

https://owlcation.com/stem/Terraforming-the-Moon-Turning-Our-Satellite-Into-A-Paradise [from July 28, 2022]
« Last Edit: 08/08/2023 03:25 pm by Vahe231991 »

Offline Lampyridae

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2641
  • South Africa
  • Liked: 949
  • Likes Given: 2056
Re: Terraforming the Moon with comets
« Reply #46 on: 08/16/2023 06:41 pm »
There's an interesting article that proposes that ~100 Halley's-sized comets could add both volatiles and angular momentum to the Moon: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2014/07/terraforming_the_moon_it_would_be_a_lot_like_florida.html

If they impact at the right angle and speed they could reduce the lunar day duration from 28 days to 60 hours, reducing temperature extremes. If desired they could also tilt a bit the axis of rotation of the Moon to create Earth-like seasons.


Umm, no.
Impacting 100 comets of similar mass to Halley's comet, at the moon surface (say into a convenient mountain), at a speed of 90km/s (i'm being very generous, assume you can sling your comets real hard, retrograde to earth's solar orbit, etc...) AND somehow absorbing 100% of the momentum, would.....

Increase its rotational speed from 1 turn per 2360621 seconds to 1 turn per 2360587 seconds.
In less than 5900 YEARS, the moon would have turned once more than it currently does.

To just double the moon's rotation using Halleys-comet size impactors, at 90km/s, with 100% absorption of impact, would require 7.2 million impacts.



With that big a feat of engineering, you may as well dig down a few km below the crust, peel beneath the surface, lift it up on jacks and have the crust rotate on rails.

Offline Twark_Main

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3618
  • Technically we ALL live in space
  • Liked: 1878
  • Likes Given: 1187
Re: Terraforming the Moon with comets
« Reply #47 on: 08/17/2023 05:22 am »
With that big a feat of engineering, you may as well dig down a few km below the crust, peel beneath the surface, lift it up on jacks and have the crust rotate on rails.

Ron Popeil, Intergalactic Warlord.  "The crust just peels right off!!"   ;D


Why even rotate? If you have technology capable of that extremely impressive feat (sheer scale, structurally stabilize the crust, power requirements, etc), then surely you have the capability to simply jack up the crust, pressurize that underground volume with air, and install some lights on the ceiling...
"The search for a universal design which suits all sites, people, and situations is obviously impossible. What is possible is well designed examples of the application of universal principles." ~~ David Holmgren

 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1