Author Topic: FAILURE: Proton-M/DM-03 with 3xGlonass-M - July 2, 2013  (Read 219296 times)

Online Chris Bergin

Looks like no causalities.... but the rocket apparently fell near area 200 (the other Proton launch pad usually used for ILS launches)!

Source: http://www.astronomy.ru/forum/index.php/topic,18118.msg2476731.html#msg2476731

Well that would be good news at least!
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Offline jcm

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Re: FAILURE: Proton-M/DM-03 with 3xGlonass-M - July 2, 2013
« Reply #141 on: 07/02/2013 03:32 am »
Don't have proper word in English to comment.
A bad failure in the highly politically sensitive program in the days of political crisis.
Pretty bad even if without casualities.

Best wishes to all in the Russian space industry - terrible news.
I saw on NK forum someone quoted that there were casualties, in contrast to the other report - didn't seem reliable, but suspect it's too early to be sure - keep us posted on what is known on that front
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Offline eeergo

Based on the huts visible in the last frames of the webcast, can anyone hazard a guess as to where it might have fallen?

I'm checking Anik's reference for pad 81/24 but I'm not getting oriented yet: https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=46%C2%B0+4%2715.38%22N,+62%C2%B059%275.11%22E&ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=46.070939,62.984753&spn=0.003528,0.01075&t=k&om=0

I think the camera was looking almost straight north at launch.

Yeah, that was my thought too, which would make the crash site towards the east or northeast of the pad. Also makes sense since the images showing the explosion's mushroom cloud one can also see the liftoff cloud without framing the tower - which is to the southwest.

However, the other Proton pad is to the northwest (I'm looking now at the Russian forum quoted by GP) and on the liftoff view from the pad it looked as though the flame was deflecting to the left (west), which then got overcorrected to the other side. This would push the rocket towards the west. What am I seeing wrong?
-DaviD-

Offline eeergo

Indeed, best wishes to the managers and GLONASS team (I hope those condolences don't have to be extended further) - hopefully those 3 satellites won't be needed online soon.
-DaviD-

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Best wishes to all in the Russian space industry - terrible news.
I saw on NK forum someone quoted that there were casualties, in contrast to the other report - didn't seem reliable, but suspect it's too early to be sure - keep us posted on what is known on that front

I swear that I spot "nyet" untranslated - so I think it is saying that there actually are NO casualties.
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Online Chris Bergin

This is a better version....showing live by one of the largest Russian TV news channel!



I smell something stirring up at the Kremlin.....  ::)

Anyone want to have a go at translating?

Really doesn't seem to be far from the pad.

Didn't realise she was spinning too.

Translation may have some mistakes due to translating from russian to estonian to english

0:40 something has gone wrong
0:45 something is wrong
0:47 it seems like this is a disaster
0:50 rocket is heading towards the earth and explodes in air
0:56 explosion
and explosion*
1:01 And on air we have just seen a failed launch of proton-m rocket with the 3 glonass statellites
1:13 black smoke is now rising into the sky

Thanks!
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Offline JimO

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Re: FAILURE: Proton-M/DM-03 with 3xGlonass-M - July 2, 2013
« Reply #146 on: 07/02/2013 03:42 am »
Based on the huts visible in the last frames of the webcast, can anyone hazard a guess as to where it might have fallen?

Did any video have sound, and can you count the seconds from impact to 'boom'?

Online Chris Bergin

Don't have proper word in English to comment.
A bad failure in the highly politically sensitive program in the days of political crisis.
Pretty bad even if without casualities.

Best wishes to all in the Russian space industry - terrible news.
I saw on NK forum someone quoted that there were casualties, in contrast to the other report - didn't seem reliable, but suspect it's too early to be sure - keep us posted on what is known on that front

A guy on Twitter claiming to live there is saying no causalities, but of course we need to hear officially.
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Offline Rusty Adding Machine

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Re: FAILURE: Proton-M/DM-03 with 3xGlonass-M - July 2, 2013
« Reply #148 on: 07/02/2013 03:43 am »
Don't have proper word in English to comment.
A bad failure in the highly politically sensitive program in the days of political crisis.
Pretty bad even if without casualities.

I know little of the politics of this. What do you think the consequences could be politically?

Also, is there a discussion thread for this? I don't want to clog up the update thread, but I don't know where else to post it.

Offline jcm

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Re: FAILURE: Proton-M/DM-03 with 3xGlonass-M - July 2, 2013
« Reply #149 on: 07/02/2013 03:43 am »
Best wishes to all in the Russian space industry - terrible news.
I saw on NK forum someone quoted that there were casualties, in contrast to the other report - didn't seem reliable, but suspect it's too early to be sure - keep us posted on what is known on that front

I swear that I spot "nyet" untranslated - so I think it is saying that there actually are NO casualties.

you're absolutely right. Sorry about that mistake - relied too much on google rather than reading the text myself. Phew.
Hope they are correct
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Online Chris Bergin

Don't have proper word in English to comment.
A bad failure in the highly politically sensitive program in the days of political crisis.
Pretty bad even if without casualities.

I know little of the politics of this. What do you think the consequences could be politically?

Also, is there a discussion thread for this? I don't want to clog up the update thread, but I don't know where else to post it.

Yeah, good call. We're all doing pretty well on this thread as it's not raced away with itself despite a few thousand people on the forum right this second. So we'll continue on this for now and I'll set up that "reaction" style thread shortly.
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Offline JimO

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Re: LIVE: Proton-M/DM-03 with 3xGlonass-M - July 2, 2013
« Reply #151 on: 07/02/2013 03:45 am »
Yeah, I kept waiting for for the destruct command, but it just kept going further and further down and then I realized it was going to hit big time.

It has always been my impression that there is no destruct package on Baikonur launches, the early ascent abort procedure is to order engines off -- which did not seem to work here.

Offline Prober

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Re: FAILURE: Proton-M/DM-03 with 3xGlonass-M - July 2, 2013
« Reply #152 on: 07/02/2013 03:48 am »
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/index.html   has a good write up on this....
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Offline Antares

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Re: FAILURE: Proton-M/DM-03 with 3xGlonass-M - July 2, 2013
« Reply #153 on: 07/02/2013 03:48 am »
There was conjecture on the last Sea Launch failure that there is logic for the vehicle to fly itself away from the pad before thrust termination.  Is that true?  It looked a bit like that's what was happening here, at least before the flight path angle went negative.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

There was conjecture on the last Sea Launch failure that there is logic for the vehicle to fly itself away from the pad before thrust termination.  Is that true?  It looked a bit like that's what was happening here, at least before the flight path angle went negative.

Looks like this is exactly what is happening - the engines are disabled from being shut down for the first 40 seconds to ensure that the rocket can clear the pad: http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum12/topic12414/message1091421/#message1091421
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Offline notsorandom

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Re: FAILURE: Proton-M/DM-03 with 3xGlonass-M - July 2, 2013
« Reply #155 on: 07/02/2013 03:54 am »
also could be 3 engines die?

Once it was upside down a few frames showed a clean looking hexagonal pattern of six glowing exhaust nozzles.
I saw that as well. There are six engines burning. If they are all producing expected thrust is unknown though. There are time when it looks like one of the exhaust streams is pointing away from the rest. As if the engine is gimbaling out of sync with the others. However its hard to tell if that is just an artifact of the dynamics and environment of a very off normal flight. It is tempting to speculate on what might have caused this failure but this single short video is likely not enough evidence to draw many conclusions.

Online Chris Bergin

We updated William's article and will continue to rev it as we know more.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/07/proton-m-launch-three-glonass/

And now, here's the Reaction and Discussion Thread for the failure, allowing this live thread to focus on specific updates:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=18.0
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Offline Antares

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Re: FAILURE: Proton-M/DM-03 with 3xGlonass-M - July 2, 2013
« Reply #157 on: 07/02/2013 03:56 am »
despite a few thousand people on the forum right this second.

I'd love to see that graph of how it spiked after the failure and compare it to competitors.  8)
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline FinalFrontier

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Re: FAILURE: Proton-M/DM-03 with 3xGlonass-M - July 2, 2013
« Reply #158 on: 07/02/2013 03:56 am »
http://rt.com/news/proton-m-rocket-takeoff-crash-514/


At the bottom of this RT states "leaking nuclear fuel"


Excuse me but unless that is some sort of typo that suggests that these GPS birds had some sort of nuclear cargo on board?

Clarify for me if I am wrong but I thought GLONASS did not have nuclear propulsion of any nature.

Heres the caption:

"The emergency ministry of Kazakhstan is considering evacuating the surrounding areas as nuclear fuel leaked from the rocket could threaten the immediate vicinity."

I do hope that is a typo and they meant "toxic" fuel. Because the alternative suggests that somehow a conventionally propelled Russian satellite has a nuclear cargo for some reason. 
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Offline Lee Jay

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Re: FAILURE: Proton-M/DM-03 with 3xGlonass-M - July 2, 2013
« Reply #159 on: 07/02/2013 03:58 am »
There was conjecture on the last Sea Launch failure that there is logic for the vehicle to fly itself away from the pad before thrust termination.  Is that true?  It looked a bit like that's what was happening here, at least before the flight path angle went negative.

Wouldn't the apparent guidance failure have eliminated any capability of such a system to work also?

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