Author Topic: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform  (Read 24189 times)

Offline muomega0

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #60 on: 05/09/2016 05:30 pm »
The ASDS does what is supposed to and is probably an economic solution.  However since wind and sea state have never affected a landing yet a new ship is required. Lets get one that has an 6 degree of freedom landing pad. Travels at 20 knots and can hold a gps location to 1 meter accuracy. 
Well there's this one:

Okay -- who cut the prow off a perfectly good ship?  I wonder where the back end of that thing is..?  :D
Just Bad timing.  Another entrepreneur had a different solution to a similar problem.

Offline sevenperforce

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #61 on: 05/09/2016 05:50 pm »
How about just adding a beacon with position, wind, speed and wave data? This would enable rocket landing while ASDS sails full speed downwind. Thus landing could happen with larger waves and stronger winds.
As I understand it, the ASDS needs to hold position pretty tightly because the Falcon is stuck inside a plasma sheath during re-entry and cannot receive updates on its target.

Offline AC in NC

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #62 on: 05/09/2016 06:34 pm »
Two questions that need answers... my opinion...  ;)

Can you trust the rocket engines to light on time every time...  ???
Would YOU stay on a ship with a F9 S1 incoming at terminal velocity...  :o

At this point in the development cycle... my answers are no and NO...  :-\

Doesn't the F9 S1 aim to miss the LZ or ASDS until relight is confirmed?  I believe that was the implication of a diagram I saw somewhere.

Still it is a valid point that you pretty much cannot use something that requires people onboard or that would incur too much damage from a RUD or worst-case landing scenario.

Offline dkovacic

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #63 on: 05/09/2016 07:05 pm »
How about just adding a beacon with position, wind, speed and wave data? This would enable rocket landing while ASDS sails full speed downwind. Thus landing could happen with larger waves and stronger winds.
As I understand it, the ASDS needs to hold position pretty tightly because the Falcon is stuck inside a plasma sheath during re-entry and cannot receive updates on its target.
If I remember correctly, reentry lasts less than two minutes. ASDS moving at 10 knots would move up to 600m. I believe that plasma should not be an issue at lower attitude so beacon/telemetry should available for at least 20 seconds before touchdown. So this is really a software problem. If they solved three engine hoverslam landing, I believe that aiming to a slowly moving platform is not that hard.
« Last Edit: 05/09/2016 07:22 pm by dkovacic »

Offline starhawk92

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #64 on: 05/09/2016 07:53 pm »
Come on, let's think SPACEX BIG!!

ASDS v2.0 Prototype Concept Art


Offline launchwatcher

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #65 on: 05/09/2016 08:08 pm »
Come on, let's think SPACEX BIG!!

ASDS v2.0 Prototype Concept Art
That image shows better than most why we'll never have a helicarrier like this:  if you miss all the arresting wires landing on that upper angled deck you'll get sucked into the intake of the port-site forward lift fan.

Offline CameronD

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #66 on: 05/10/2016 12:28 am »
Okay.. well, how about four airships holding the corners of a big steel net?!?

Kinda like a giant-sized baseball glove.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #67 on: 05/10/2016 03:39 am »
Two questions that need answers... my opinion...  ;)

Can you trust the rocket engines to light on time every time...  ???
Would YOU stay on a ship with a F9 S1 incoming at terminal velocity...  :o

At this point in the development cycle... my answers are no and NO...  :-\

Doesn't the F9 S1 aim to miss the LZ or ASDS until relight is confirmed?  I believe that was the implication of a diagram I saw somewhere.

No, it has one GPS coordinate set as a target and it always aims for that target. If SpaceX wants to abort for some reason (ie bad weather), they just radio the ASDS to move away from the landing coordinates, and the stage splashes itself where the ASDS would have been.


Offline CraigLieb

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #68 on: 05/10/2016 04:05 am »
Given the sometimes snarky tone of this thread and in deference to he Chinese activities of "nation building or at least island building AND Elon's comments in the past....
I vote for building a volcano lair complete with appropriately sized landing pads.
On the ground floor of the National Space Foundation... Colonize Mars!

Offline starhawk92

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #69 on: 05/10/2016 02:21 pm »
Come on, let's think SPACEX BIG!!

ASDS v2.0 Prototype Concept Art
That image shows better than most why we'll never have a helicarrier like this:  if you miss all the arresting wires landing on that upper angled deck you'll get sucked into the intake of the port-site forward lift fan.

I would DEFINITELY need to see an animation of that before I agree.  Unmanned drone.  Please!

Offline starhawk92

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #70 on: 05/10/2016 02:23 pm »
Given the sometimes snarky tone of this thread and in deference to he Chinese activities of "nation building or at least island building AND Elon's comments in the past....
I vote for building a volcano lair complete with appropriately sized landing pads.

Launch out of or land into the cone?

Online southshore26

Given the sometimes snarky tone of this thread and in deference to he Chinese activities of "nation building or at least island building AND Elon's comments in the past....
I vote for building a volcano lair complete with appropriately sized landing pads.

Launch out of or land into the cone?

Both.... duh....  :o :P ;D
« Last Edit: 05/10/2016 02:51 pm by southshore26 »

Offline envy887

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #72 on: 05/10/2016 03:03 pm »
Okay.. well, how about four airships holding the corners of a big steel net?!?

Kinda like a giant-sized baseball glove.

If it lands at terminal velocity in a steel net, inertia will extrude the aluminum tanks right through the cables. Nice if you want finely chopped Falcon bits, not so nice if you want a reusable rocket.

On the other hand, doing a terminal landing burn to reduce velocity points a Merlin-sized plasma torch right at the cables, and you get a Falcon-sized hole in the net - but still no reusable rocket.

Offline mvpel

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #73 on: 05/10/2016 03:12 pm »
It amuses me greatly that SpaceX has more cruise missile/ICBM capabilities than the entire North Korean military. SpaceX could drop a Falcon 9 first stage literally anywhere in the world with enough remaining fuel to seriously mess up somebody's day.

What would be more unpleasant: flipping the S1 around and firing prograde into the target, or just letting it drop at terminal velocity?

Not to mention the fact that the F9 could likely carry almost any nuke in the US arsenal on a suborbital trajectory to anywhere in the world.

Hence the life-and-death importance of ITAR restrictions, and why we should be thankful that SpaceX and others in the industry are tight-lipped on certain matters. We don't want to accidentally give any North Korean engineers the last piece of the puzzle they need to keep their Taepo Dong 2's and Unha 3's from blowing up.
"Ugly programs are like ugly suspension bridges: they're much more liable to collapse than pretty ones, because the way humans (especially engineer-humans) perceive beauty is intimately related to our ability to process and understand complexity. A language that makes it hard to write elegant code makes it hard to write good code." - Eric S. Raymond

Offline JamesH65

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #74 on: 05/10/2016 03:16 pm »
It amuses me greatly that SpaceX has more cruise missile/ICBM capabilities than the entire North Korean military. SpaceX could drop a Falcon 9 first stage literally anywhere in the world with enough remaining fuel to seriously mess up somebody's day.

What would be more unpleasant: flipping the S1 around and firing prograde into the target, or just letting it drop at terminal velocity?

Not to mention the fact that the F9 could likely carry almost any nuke in the US arsenal on a suborbital trajectory to anywhere in the world.

Hence the life-and-death importance of ITAR restrictions, and why we should be thankful that SpaceX and others in the industry are tight-lipped on certain matters. We don't want to accidentally give any North Korean engineers the last piece of the puzzle they need to keep their Taepo Dong 2's and Unha 3's from blowing up.

They will figure it out, sooner rather than later.

Offline AC in NC

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Re: Creative ideas for new SpaceX ocean landing platform
« Reply #75 on: 05/10/2016 03:46 pm »
Okay.. well, how about four airships holding the corners of a big steel net?!?

Kinda like a giant-sized baseball glove.

If it lands at terminal velocity in a steel net, inertia will extrude the aluminum tanks right through the cables. Nice if you want finely chopped Falcon bits, not so nice if you want a reusable rocket.

On the other hand, doing a terminal landing burn to reduce velocity points a Merlin-sized plasma torch right at the cables, and you get a Falcon-sized hole in the net - but still no reusable rocket.

[mad scientist accent]

Or perhaps there's a 3rd possibility  :o

There's a hole in the net, the hole frames the arresting wire loop, the arresting wire loop is automatically drawn closed as the Falcon's burn slows its descent through the hole, UNTIL the arresting loop wires are caught on the little bitty hooks on the grid fins, and VOILA you've bagged a Falcon.  :-\

[/mad scientist accent]
« Last Edit: 05/10/2016 03:49 pm by AC in NC »

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