Author Topic: NASA's vision lost on Web generation  (Read 21835 times)

Offline kool-aid

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NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« on: 12/28/2006 09:35 pm »
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/12/28/space.youth.apathy.ap/index.html

"At an October workshop attended by 80 NASA message spinners, young adults were right up there with Congress as the top two priorities for NASA's strategic communications efforts. Tactics encouraged by the workshop included new forms of communication, such as podcasts and YouTube; enlisting support from celebrities, like actors David Duchovny ("X-Files") and Patrick Stewart ("Star Trek: The Next Generation"); forming partnerships with youth-oriented media such as MTV or sports events such as the Olympics and NASCAR; and developing brand placement in the movie industry."

UMMM, or how about this?  Create a vision where the average young person actually thinks he might have a chance of going to the Moon or Mars!  I mean, why should they care when only NASA astronauts have gone anywhere for forty years?

What about the rest of us?  Dude, where's my moon base?  That's why people are more excited about Branson and Bigelow than NASA--those guys are actually talking about how to put regular (rich) people into space.

Offline MATTBLAK

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Want To Read Something That Might Make You Mad??
« Reply #1 on: 12/28/2006 11:34 pm »

Link to article on CNN

And the bottom lines are the kick in the *%&^

It made me furious. And after a recent run-in with young work colleagues from what I call the "I don't wanna do that, that SUCKS!!!" generation, I fear for the brains of our drug-addled, video-game and rap-'music', conspiracy theory, Sci-Fi brainwashed generation X and 'EMO' twits. They are so conditioned to believe that space travel has hyperdrives, phasers, wormholes, artificial gravity, M-Class planets and load explosions in the vacuum of space, that capsules and chemical rockets seem lame to them. They truly don't understand how difficult it is to get into space, even in the 21st Century.

These current years are our chance (might be the last) to truly start transforming our race into a space-faring and pioneering species and all some of these, these... know-nothings could say would be; "Moon and Mars, don't wanna go, rocks and craters aint got no flow, bro..."

(sound of Matt vomiting, followed by crying)

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Offline Suzy

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RE: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #2 on: 12/28/2006 11:03 pm »
Also, have astronauts and cosmonauts be a bit more accessible, utilizing the Internet! They could have their own websites and blogs. Perhaps a forum where they could answer questions from the public. As things are now, they are rather remote and inaccessible.

Offline hyper_snyper

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Re: Want To Read Something That Might Make You Mad??
« Reply #3 on: 12/28/2006 11:34 pm »
Very sad state of affairs.  

Substance > Style

Substance is greater than style.  Today's generation doesn't understand that.  Does NASA really have to make things flashy and showy to get attention?  
In the end, I hope Griffin is right in that when the missions do get here they'll be a big event with lots of interest.

Offline Chris Bergin

RE: Want To Read Something That Might Make You Mad??
« Reply #4 on: 12/28/2006 11:34 pm »
Annoying from start to finish, with factual errors and pointless commentary, highlighting everything that is wrong with mass media using wire crap to fill out their content.

The comments claiming that NASA needs personalities to push the message is utter crap. NASA's tried that with Aerosmith and it was embarassing.

The comments about Youtube are even more rediculous. Youtube is famous for EMO kids to whine and for people to post uncensored videos of US troops being blown up via terrorist videos, with the aforementioned EMOs using that for anti-Bush comments.

God I'm furious after reading this drivel - and they choose to close it off with this example of an idiot?:

>Ali Kuwait, 19, who is studying civil engineering at Brevard Community College, said he recently watched a clip on YouTube that made a convincing case that NASA's moon landings between 1969 and 1972 were faked.

Repeating an old myth that NASA has not been able to kill, Kuwait said: "The moon thing was not real."<

I know NASA has failed to find a way to properly communicate, but God help us all if they listen to moronic commentary like this.

I could go on for hours about how it can be communicated, but I happen to think the good people on here already know themselves.
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Offline Chris Bergin

RE: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #5 on: 12/28/2006 11:35 pm »
Threads merged.
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Offline MATTBLAK

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RE: Want To Read Something That Might Make You Mad??
« Reply #6 on: 12/28/2006 11:35 pm »
Thanks Chris, you're absolutely right. This very fine website & forums are the best antidote I've seen for the antispace, flat-earth morons.

(Thanks for fixing the html link)
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Offline RedSky

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RE: Want To Read Something That Might Make You Mad??
« Reply #7 on: 12/28/2006 11:48 pm »
Well, sad to say...this doesn't surprise me.   I've noticed this for a number of years, now.    Half think we are already going to the Moon and Mars... ("isn't that where the shuttle is going every few months?  Didn't I see a movie about that a few years ago?")... and the other half that knows we're not doesn't want us to.  Perhaps the only way to sell the whole space exploration thing these days is to play up big the need to have the capability to "save the earth" from an asteroid or comet... or to ensure humans have some self-sustaining presence on another planet (Mars) that will survive a global catastrophe on earth.   Seems like the science investigation or the basic exploration rationale just doesn't inspire folks today.  Don't really know a solution, but I fear for the future funding of space 20 years out.   We may get back to the moon... but get the same public reaction as last time... "OK, done that (again)... so now stop it".   I'm afraid only a "race" (China, India, Russia) might make a difference.  Sad.

Offline kool-aid

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Re: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #8 on: 12/28/2006 11:57 pm »
I think the answer is space tourism, and if that's the case, then the only thing NASA can do is get out of the way.

I mean, imagine if it was 1960 and 200 "aeronauts" toured the country each year talking about how great it was to fly on an "aeroplane" and how that maybe you might grow up someday, study math and science, and get to be an "aeronaut".  Except the future aeronautic plans included flying brand-new Curtis Jennys about 3 times a year with one pilot and three passengers.

Woo hoo.  Meanwhile everyone on the ground was taking trains and a handful had actually seen an "aeroplane" actually fly.  Meanwhile some folks were pointing out that the whole thing was impossible and how it's all done in wind tunnels...

Offline bombay

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Re: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #9 on: 12/29/2006 12:41 am »
This country (the U.S.) is in a death spiral.  It's been published on a number of occasions that within the nest 10-15 yrs the U.S. will have a shortage in engineers, technologists, and scientists whereby our self-dependence in these fields will be greatly diminished.

Should it be any wonder that 18-25 year-olds show apathy towards NASA's vision when it's based on science, engineering, and technology?  Subjects that they have no real interest in!!

The problem isn't so much selling NASA's vision.  Their vision will be sparked naturally by marketing and selling the aforementioned careers in high schools, colleges, and universities.

Offline Gary

RE: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #10 on: 12/29/2006 12:43 am »
Quote
Suzy - 28/12/2006  11:46 PM

Also, have astronauts and cosmonauts be a bit more accessible, utilizing the Internet! They could have their own websites and blogs. Perhaps a forum where they could answer questions from the public. As things are now, they are rather remote and inaccessible.

They already do that. Check out NASA's page, the neemo blogs and the 'ask the crew' sections.

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #11 on: 12/29/2006 12:49 am »
Comment I overheard a young person say whilst watching the Shuttle launch scene in the IMAX film 'Destiny In Space':

"Cool man, nice graphics!"

It makes me sad that these days, kids consider a scientifically educated person as someone who can make better graphics for shoot-em-up computer games. And no disrespect to people in the I.T. industry, a lot of whom are my friends, but do we really need another flood of Microsoft Certified Engineers, qualified in regurgitated orthodoxy when we need new physicists, astronomers and fresh rocket engineers?

I know that computers are still where the money is, but really!! Sheesh.
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Offline Suzy

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RE: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #12 on: 12/29/2006 12:53 am »
Quote
Gary - 29/12/2006  10:26 AM

Quote
Suzy - 28/12/2006  11:46 PM

Also, have astronauts and cosmonauts be a bit more accessible, utilizing the Internet! They could have their own websites and blogs. Perhaps a forum where they could answer questions from the public. As things are now, they are rather remote and inaccessible.

They already do that. Check out NASA's page, the neemo blogs and the 'ask the crew' sections.

I know of those, thanks :) , but I was thinking of more interactive blogs where people could comment (like Anousheh Ansari's). The "Ask the Crew" section got discontinued after ISS-6 or thereabouts (the few questions I sent never got answered, anyway :(  ).

Offline bombay

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Re: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #13 on: 12/29/2006 01:02 am »
Quote
MATTBLAK - 28/12/2006  7:32 PM

Comment I overheard a young person say whilst watching the Shuttle launch scene in the IMAX film 'Destiny In Space':

"Cool man, nice graphics!"

It makes me sad that these days, kids consider a scientifically educated person as someone who can make better graphics for shoot-em-up computer games. And no disrespect to people in the I.T. industry, a lot of whom are my friends, but do we really need another flood of Microsoft Certified Engineers, qualified in regurgitated orthodoxy when we need new physicists, astronomers and fresh rocket engineers?

I know that computers are still where the money is, but really!! Sheesh.
It's pretty hard to win a battle for a kid's interest when slick computer graphics are compared to partial differential equations.

Maybe focussing on cool rocket launches or rocket failures (i.e. incredible explosions) is something to use to gain interest.

Offline kool-aid

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Re: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #14 on: 12/29/2006 01:11 am »
How about making it so high-achieving kids get to drive the Mars rovers?  Why not?

How interesting is the space program when you're always on the side-lines watching, never really getting to be in the middle?  Kids play computer games because they INVOLVE them, just like team sports used to.  Programs like Getaway Specials and CubeSats get to involve students, but Griffin's saying he can't spend money on Getaway Specials anymore because the Shaft is too darn important.

Offline lmike

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Re: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #15 on: 12/29/2006 01:41 am »
Quote
MATTBLAK - 28/12/2006  5:32 PM

Comment I overheard a young person say whilst watching the Shuttle launch scene in the IMAX film 'Destiny In Space':

"Cool man, nice graphics!"

It makes me sad that these days, kids consider a scientifically educated person as someone who can make better graphics for shoot-em-up computer games. And no disrespect to people in the I.T. industry, a lot of whom are my friends, but do we really need another flood of Microsoft Certified Engineers, qualified in regurgitated orthodoxy when we need new physicists, astronomers and fresh rocket engineers?

I know that computers are still where the money is, but really!! Sheesh.

I do get your meaning and agree to an extent, just want to point out that control theory/digital signal processing/numerics/modeling/and yes even 3d graphics as used in (simulators or visualization of modeling results)/telecommunication theory/human interface mechanisms design (the controls/integrated displays)/comm. theory/etc... I can go on.  :) ( I realize that's not what you meant by 'computers', here though ;)  )  are a *very* important aspect of space flight.  You do have a point that the vast majority goes into the 'easy money' branches of the IT (no blame though, it's just a living)  There *is* a shortage of applicants in these* aspects of computer work, though, and they are indeed valued highly, so perhaps it should be considered a part of 'rocket science'

[edit] * just to clarify, by 'these' I mean the embedded or desktop 'scientific'/control firmware/software

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #16 on: 12/29/2006 01:43 am »
Quote
kool-aid - 29/12/2006  11:54 AM

How about making it so high-achieving kids get to drive the Mars rovers?  Why not?

How interesting is the space program when you're always on the side-lines watching, never really getting to be in the middle?  Kids play computer games because they INVOLVE them, just like team sports used to.  Programs like Getaway Specials and CubeSats get to involve students, but Griffin's saying he can't spend money on Getaway Specials anymore because the Shaft is too darn important.

Good points.
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Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #17 on: 12/29/2006 01:49 am »
Quote
lmike - 29/12/2006  12:24 PM

Quote
MATTBLAK - 28/12/2006  5:32 PM

Comment I overheard a young person say whilst watching the Shuttle launch scene in the IMAX film 'Destiny In Space':

"Cool man, nice graphics!"

It makes me sad that these days, kids consider a scientifically educated person as someone who can make better graphics for shoot-em-up computer games. And no disrespect to people in the I.T. industry, a lot of whom are my friends, but do we really need another flood of Microsoft Certified Engineers, qualified in regurgitated orthodoxy when we need new physicists, astronomers and fresh rocket engineers?

I know that computers are still where the money is, but really!! Sheesh.

I do get your meaning and agree to an extent, just want to point out that control theory/digital signal processing/numerics/modeling/and yes even 3d graphics as used in (simulators modeling results visualization)/telecommunication theory/human interface mechanisms design (the controls/integrated displays)/comm. theory/etc... I can go on.  :) ( I realize that's not what you meant by 'computers', here though ;)  )  are a *very* important aspect of space flight.  You do have a point that the vast majority goes into the 'easy money' branches of the IT (no blame though, it's just a living)  There *is* a shortage of applicants in these aspects of computer work, though, and they are indeed valued highly, so perhaps it should be considered a part of 'rocket science'

Yes. I certainly meant that young people today totally take for granted computers and the tortuous path to (relative) technological maturity they had. The "Aint it cool" factor has short-circuited the meaning of how important and how difficult this all is. I'm also convinced that if lots of kids could get to see a Shuttle launch or even an expendable rocket launch, then the 'space bug' might certainly bite.
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Offline lmike

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Re: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #18 on: 12/29/2006 01:58 am »
Agreed, just wanted to speak up for us lowly scientific/instrumentation control software folks ;)

Offline texas_space

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RE: NASA's vision lost on Web generation
« Reply #19 on: 12/29/2006 02:31 am »
Quote
kool-aid - 28/12/2006  4:18 PM

UMMM, or how about this?  Create a vision where the average young person actually thinks he might have a chance of going to the Moon or Mars!  I mean, why should they care when only NASA astronauts have gone anywhere for forty years?

What about the rest of us?  Dude, where's my moon base?  That's why people are more excited about Branson and Bigelow than NASA--those guys are actually talking about how to put regular (rich) people into space.

The major problem is apathy and timing.  However, NASA's last 25 years haven't done anything exciting or GONE anywhere.  My brother will argue that most shuttle missions involve astronauts watching frogs tumble end over end in zero-g.  Sounds thrilling doesn't it?  The current crop of astronauts and space workers were inspired to an large extent by the Apollo program when they were growing up.  No offense to the people at NASA, but there hasn't been much in the last decade or so that was anywhere near as inspiring.

Timing is the biggest problem, however.  Mike Griffin is right to say that the future missions will grab attention.   NASA promised in 2004 that we would return to the moon in 2018.  We won't even have the new Orion spacecraft flying til 2014.  Why would anyone be interested in something that far down the road? Since I'm still in school, I got QUITE interested about the VSE announcement.  But it's still down the road quite a bit.  Branson, btw, is actually going to put people in space (suborbital) well before the shuttle even retires.
"We went to the moon nine times. Why fake it nine times, if we faked it?" - Charlie Duke

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