Propellantless Field Propulsion and application

[Moe Grills]

CERN physicists have recorded subatomic particles traveling faster-than-light

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

If this experiment can be replicated, it would be the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity.

Neutrinos pass through the most massive, most dense and most voluminous matter as if it were barely there.
Little chance, if any, of propulsion emerging from that.

Interstellar communication maybe a different thing altogether.
SETI cultists and fans need to RETHINK the concept that supposed ET's only communicate by EMR.

[GeeGee]

Neutrinos pass through the most massive, most dense and most voluminous matter as if it were barely there.
Little chance, if any, of propulsion emerging from that.

Interstellar communication maybe a different thing altogether.
SETI cultists and fans need to RETHINK the concept that supposed ET's only communicate by EMR.

Yes, I don't see how this could be useful for space propulsion, but the implications for FTL communication and retrocausal signaling are hard to ignore.

[Star-Drive]

Neutrinos pass through the most massive, most dense and most voluminous matter as if it were barely there.
Little chance, if any, of propulsion emerging from that.

Interstellar communication maybe a different thing altogether.
SETI cultists and fans need to RETHINK the concept that supposed ET's only communicate by EMR.

Yes, I don't see how this could be useful for space propulsion, but the implications for FTL communication and retrocausal signaling are hard to ignore.

And don't forget that the M-E requires there to be retrocausal connections between the locally accelerated mass and the rest of the mass/energy in the causally connected universe.

[cuddihy]

Neutrinos pass through the most massive, most dense and most voluminous matter as if it were barely there.
Little chance, if any, of propulsion emerging from that.

Interstellar communication maybe a different thing altogether.
SETI cultists and fans need to RETHINK the concept that supposed ET's only communicate by EMR.

Yes, I don't see how this could be useful for space propulsion, but the implications for FTL communication and retrocausal signaling are hard to ignore.

And don't forget that the M-E requires there to be retrocausal connections between the locally accelerated mass and the rest of the mass/energy in the causally connected universe.

would neutrinos be exempt from M-E influence?

[marsavian]

CERN physicists have recorded subatomic particles traveling faster-than-light

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

If this experiment can be replicated, it would be the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity.

I think the measurement will be found to be flawed unfortunately but it would be very interesting if true.

But the group understands that what are known as "systematic errors" could easily make an erroneous result look like a breaking of the ultimate speed limit, and that has motivated them to publish their measurements.

[kkattula]

And don't forget that the M-E requires there to be retrocausal connections between the locally accelerated mass and the rest of the mass/energy in the causally connected universe.

Which brings me back to a question I asked a while back:

Is there anyway to tell if anyone else in the causally connected Universe is using M-E technology, (on a large scale), by it's observable effect on the observable Universe?

Would M-E generators tend to push the rest of the Universe away? Oh no, dark energy...

[MP99]

I speculated the same earlier up thread.

Implication would be that usage became "cosmically" significant 5 billion years ago when dark energy started to make it's effects felt.

cheers, Martin

[Star-Drive]

Folks:

"Is there anyway to tell if anyone else in the causally connected Universe is using M-E technology, (on a large scale), by it's observable effect on the observable Universe?"

Look at the magnitude of extracted M-E energy required to make this senario play out by any and all species/civilizations required to accomplish this feat.  We would have to have multiple civilizations moving around whole galaxies over billions of years before they would have any noticable impact on the observable negative energy levels.  I guess that outcome is not impossible, but you've got to ask why would any civilization pursue such a course?  And surely they would have noticed along the way the possibility of their actions was driving the universe towards a "Big Rip" ending and changed their ways.

[MP99]

Common theme in certain speculative fiction, though.

cheers, Martin

[MP99]

CERN physicists have recorded subatomic particles traveling faster-than-light

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

If this experiment can be replicated, it would be the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity.

http://xkcd.com/955/

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[douglas100]

 

[GeeGee]

And don't forget that the M-E requires there to be retrocausal connections between the locally accelerated mass and the rest of the mass/energy in the causally connected universe.

Physicists are stating one of the consequences of this being right is having to rewrite special relativity.

Isn't this kind of a bad result for the M-E conjecture since it relies on SR being correct?

[mlorrey]

CERN physicists have recorded subatomic particles traveling faster-than-light

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

If this experiment can be replicated, it would be the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity.

This experiment has mistaken conclusions. The neutrinos are travelling at what light speed is in a vacuum in flat spacetime because they are weakly interacting or noninteractive with regular matter. Photons, due to special relativity, are bound to curved geodesics in our nonflat spactime which causes the perception of a slower speed of light for the photons, hence the neutrinos travel a billionth of a second faster than the photons.

[douglas100]

Curved spacetime is a feature of General Relativity not Special Relativity.

[Sith]

no, the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity is the Mach Effect. Although its not really PROVED yet. So maybe FTL neutrinos are the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity and until Mach Effect is proved without a doubt.

How can the Mach Effect be proven inside CERN? Who will do the research?

[mlorrey]

Neutrinos pass through the most massive, most dense and most voluminous matter as if it were barely there.
Little chance, if any, of propulsion emerging from that.

Interstellar communication maybe a different thing altogether.
SETI cultists and fans need to RETHINK the concept that supposed ET's only communicate by EMR.

Yes, I don't see how this could be useful for space propulsion, but the implications for FTL communication and retrocausal signaling are hard to ignore.

And don't forget that the M-E requires there to be retrocausal connections between the locally accelerated mass and the rest of the mass/energy in the causally connected universe.

would neutrinos be exempt from M-E influence?

Neutrinos, while weakly interacting, DO have mass, so they are influenced by gravity, just less than photons are.

[mlorrey]

Curved spacetime is a feature of General Relativity not Special Relativity.

General Relativity describes spacetime, but it is special relativity that says that the energy of a photon is relativistically equivalent to mass, which is why gravity bends light, and can slow the local velocity of light down.

[Oberon_Command]

CERN physicists have recorded subatomic particles traveling faster-than-light

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

If this experiment can be replicated, it would be the biggest discovery in physics since general relativity.

This experiment has mistaken conclusions. The neutrinos are travelling at what light speed is in a vacuum in flat spacetime because they are weakly interacting or noninteractive with regular matter. Photons, due to special relativity, are bound to curved geodesics in our nonflat spactime which causes the perception of a slower speed of light for the photons, hence the neutrinos travel a billionth of a second faster than the photons.

You don't think the scientists at CERN accounted for that already? If the neutrinos and photons take different paths, that seems like the kind of thing they'd have to take into consideration just to detect the neutrinos in the first place.

[tdperk]

"Is there anyway to tell if anyone else in the causally connected Universe is using M-E technology, (on a large scale), by it's observable effect on the observable Universe?"
kkattula   09/23/2011 08:43 AM

&

"Look at the magnitude of extracted M-E energy required to make this senario play out by any and all species/civilizations required to accomplish this feat.  We would have to have multiple civilizations moving around whole galaxies over billions of years before they would have any noticable impact on the observable negative energy levels.  I guess that outcome is not impossible, but you've got to ask why would any civilization pursue such a course?  And surely they would have noticed along the way the possibility of their actions was driving the universe towards a "Big Rip" ending and changed their ways."
Star-Drive   09/23/2011 12:19 PM

Alternatively, it may be this:
What we see which we now explain to be an inflationary universe--dark energy, dark matter, superluminal expansion--these in fact are the results of a long future period wherein the intelligences which exist in that future time are using M-E effect energy generation to prolong their existence past the point the rest of the universe having experienced decay to iron, heat death.  Iron still has mass, and to my knowledge the M-E effect might be usable to generate power as long as mass exists somewhere in the universe.  They may not be using "Kardashev 9" energies, but using far lesser power for them a long time results in many backwards going arrows landing where we can see their effects.

It could take a long time to figure a way around heat death.

Or maybe they/we don't.

[KelvinZero]

Yes, I don't see how this could be useful for space propulsion, but the implications for FTL communication and retrocausal signaling are hard to ignore.

haha.. that is like finding a cabbage that can converse about plato and noting that you don't see how this affects other green leafy vegetables.

Of course you can't. Who could? It would overturn everything we thought we knew about principles of evolution that affect all life on this planet and every other.