According to the latest plans ( before the coming announcement) NASA is expecting Boeing to fly first, so crew announced for Boeing would fly first. But what if issues like the propellant leak delay Boeing and SpaceX is first, so that crew would go to the Station first. It would seem prudent to train all 4 astronauts on both vehicles, so they have flexibility on crew assignments.
Quote from: Jcc on 07/27/2018 12:00 amAccording to the latest plans ( before the coming announcement) NASA is expecting Boeing to fly first, so crew announced for Boeing would fly first. But what if issues like the propellant leak delay Boeing and SpaceX is first, so that crew would go to the Station first. It would seem prudent to train all 4 astronauts on both vehicles, so they have flexibility on crew assignments.Bit of friendly advice: don't put any stock in what any publicly released launch dates say regarding who flies first. They're all still NET dates at best. The answer won't be clear until you get much closer to the actual launch date.
Quote from: DigitalMan on 07/25/2018 09:56 pmI hope they will be able to give us at least expected dates for Boeing/SpaceX flights 1 and 2, rather than the placeholders that have been published.Hope all you want, but they clearly excluded what everyone wants to know.How significant is which of the four astronauts gets assigned to which of the vehicles? Some of us have preferences. In the end, though, we are much more interested in the vehicles. This appears to be another attempt to convey a sense of progress without anything really happening.
I hope they will be able to give us at least expected dates for Boeing/SpaceX flights 1 and 2, rather than the placeholders that have been published.
The certification process outlined in the article from the ASAP meeting makes it sound to me like NASA hasn't been involved in the design of the providers vehicles. I thought NASA and been involved and kept informed about every aspect of the design. Is this not the case? It seems to me that NASA shouldn't want to fly crew on a test flight unless they were confident in the design. So, what am I missing here?
Quote from: rockets4life97 on 07/30/2018 06:34 pmThe certification process outlined in the article from the ASAP meeting makes it sound to me like NASA hasn't been involved in the design of the providers vehicles. I thought NASA and been involved and kept informed about every aspect of the design. Is this not the case? It seems to me that NASA shouldn't want to fly crew on a test flight unless they were confident in the design. So, what am I missing here?Not sure where you're getting that from the article. NASA has been deeply involved from the very beginning. But NASA - not SpaceX and Boeing - is the final Certification Authority for both Dragon and Starliner. Even though NASA's been involved since the beginning, they are still the final "yes"/"no" authority -- and with that comes the final presentation of evidence and data to back up that Dragon and Starliner meet the CCP requirements.
“This could be measurements, it can be test data, it can be analysis, but it almost always involves the submittal of detailed technical data, not simply paper descriptions or forms. Sometimes it involves witness testing and sometimes it involves physical inspection. But it almost always wraps around important technical submittals."
There will definitely be new data to analyze after each test flight, and NASA will almost certainly still be working through the mountain of pre-flight certification data when the uncrewed missions fly.
Quote from: gongora on 07/31/2018 01:23 pmThere will definitely be new data to analyze after each test flight, and NASA will almost certainly still be working through the mountain of pre-flight certification data when the uncrewed missions fly.Yes, my surprise is that NASA would allow the demonstration flights even while they haven't worked through the mountain of pre-flight certification data. It all seems rather post-hoc to me.
Boeing Starliner launch abort motor leak traced to faulty valves. Four of 8 stuck open following 1.5-sec hot-fire of service module test article June 2. While repair underway, Boeing moving ahead w/ unmanned flight test in 5-6 mos, then launch abort & crew flight tests mid-2019
So, according to Klotz:- NET Jan. '19 -> Uncrewed test- NET June '19 -> Crewed testAlso relevant, from GAO's report from July. Things are getting ugly for NASA.
It's worth noting that that's the gap for certification, not necessarily for crew rotation flights. Almost certainly one or the other or perhaps even both Boeing and SpaceX will fly waiver'd crew rotations.
Quote from: whitelancer64 on 08/01/2018 05:57 pmIt's worth noting that that's the gap for certification, not necessarily for crew rotation flights. Almost certainly one or the other or perhaps even both Boeing and SpaceX will fly waiver'd crew rotations.Also, crew rotation is desirable, but not actually mandatory is it?In principle, they could pack extra cargo into uncertified crew, though of course it would be a waste.
Tweets from Eric Berger:QuoteOn call with @BoeingSpace's John Mulholland. He says Starliner on track for late 2018/early 2019 uncrewed flight test. Crew flight test should come mid-2019....More from Mulholland: Looking at other rockets that could launch Starliner, especially Vulcan. Launch tower designed to account for Vulcan's larger size....One effect of the service module hot fire anomaly is that Boeing will now conduct the pad abort test after the first uncrewed test of Starliner. So:Uncrewed flight test end of '18/'19Pad abort test Spring 2019Crewed flight test mid-2019Tweet from Emre Kelly:QuoteBoeing update on Starliner anomaly: Happened during simulated low-altitude abort burn. All four engines were nominal until shutdown 1.5 seconds later; several valves failed to close, causing the leak. Boeing's Mulholland confident confident in corrective actions.Tweet from Irene Klotz:Quoteseems pretty straightforward change -- also plan to change downstream valve start position to avoid initial surge. Test was designed to check how system worked and apparently a slight tweak or two needed. Boeing clear this wouldn't show up during single-engine test
On call with @BoeingSpace's John Mulholland. He says Starliner on track for late 2018/early 2019 uncrewed flight test. Crew flight test should come mid-2019....More from Mulholland: Looking at other rockets that could launch Starliner, especially Vulcan. Launch tower designed to account for Vulcan's larger size....One effect of the service module hot fire anomaly is that Boeing will now conduct the pad abort test after the first uncrewed test of Starliner. So:Uncrewed flight test end of '18/'19Pad abort test Spring 2019Crewed flight test mid-2019
Boeing update on Starliner anomaly: Happened during simulated low-altitude abort burn. All four engines were nominal until shutdown 1.5 seconds later; several valves failed to close, causing the leak. Boeing's Mulholland confident confident in corrective actions.
seems pretty straightforward change -- also plan to change downstream valve start position to avoid initial surge. Test was designed to check how system worked and apparently a slight tweak or two needed. Boeing clear this wouldn't show up during single-engine test
Is it the issue more “lifeboats”, craft for the crew to ride down, than who’s on orbit for how long?According to the chart the end of November, 16 months from now, is the last chance to keep an American on board the US station with a seat home on a Soyuz. If neither Boeing or SpaceX is certified by thatvdate, the choice will be between abandoning the ISS and flying rotations in uncertified craft. Tough choice for some groups
Crew Dragon’s official uncrewed demonstration debut (DM-1) and perhaps the crewed demonstration follow-on mission (DM-2) will likely have real launch dates announced later this week in an August 3 NASA press conference. Reliable sources have pegged those dates around October-December for DM-1 and 3-6 months later for DM-2.