Quote from: jpo234 on 07/06/2016 11:34 amWhat crew would SpaceX send on the first manned mission?My guess: About 10 people* Commander/Pilot/Comms* Pilot/BFS Engineer/Comms* Doctor/Biologist/Cook* Vehicle Engineer/Driver* Chemist/ISRU Engineer* Geologist/Scout/Driver* Geologist/Scout/Driver* Hab Engineer/Builder/Driver* Biologist/Gardener/Cook* ??I think the roles of "driver" and "cook" will probably be removed and done by the entire team.Driver - because flexibility demands that at some point everyone will need to drive. Cook - because everyone can do it, and it will probably be good for team morale if everyone takes it in turn to cook. Nutrition and ingredients planning will have been done on Earth.You might need more "Engineers" - not to say someone who is an engineer, but someone who has spent a lot of time disassembling, and reassembling, a specific bit of equipment. Perhaps 2 people who can do each piece of equipment:- Life support expert- Launch engine expert- Communications and IT expert- HVAC expert- Airlock expert- Vehicle expert (car mechanic?)- ....what are the dozen main and critical systems? Each crew member would then know how to fix TWO of these "blind folded whilst breathing 0.1 bar Oxygen." Of course, one of the main system types is "human" and we'll need 2 engineers - commonly called "Doctors", to maintain and fix these.
What crew would SpaceX send on the first manned mission?My guess: About 10 people* Commander/Pilot/Comms* Pilot/BFS Engineer/Comms* Doctor/Biologist/Cook* Vehicle Engineer/Driver* Chemist/ISRU Engineer* Geologist/Scout/Driver* Geologist/Scout/Driver* Hab Engineer/Builder/Driver* Biologist/Gardener/Cook* ??
SpaceX's priority is to get the ISRU propellant facility operational. Most of the crew on the first flight would be engineers. Once the "gas station" and base are setup they can send lots of scientists (paying passengers).
Yes.. just saying "engineer" or even "robotic engineer, or "electrical engineer" is not the point. asQuote from: RonMSpaceX's priority is to get the ISRU propellant facility operational. Most of the crew on the first flight would be engineers. Once the "gas station" and base are setup they can send lots of scientists (paying passengers).Instead I bet SX plans from: "What team do we need to get the ISRU system installed working, and loading sufficient propellant?" Just like an engineering firm on Earth would. Then its the time frame, how that fits within the Synod and the first refuelled return. An then how would that team be most effectively redeployed, once released from that. So some of these engineers will be working on the ISRU system now. If this was a new Antarctic base there would be a detailed project map, with a time line of critical milestones for infrastructure etc, and then teams of personnel selected to achieve them. Linked to this will be a team to set up the "mining" of water for ISRU, and a sub group of ISRU team working on CO2 capture from the atmosphere.The other main projects are landing pads and pad infrastructure, (electrical) power, and habitats or "base".Details.The ISRU team will include one of the most senior architects of the current project, and team engineers that know the installation inside out, and the rationale behind it. It will include those highly skilled at fabrication, as well as chemical engineers. It may turn out that they have done such a good job that it just slots together and works! but its too important not to have the very best people right there to make sure.The pad team, may be the lead engineer who will have had a lead role in developing plans on earth, and a cryogenic fuel engineer, from a current SX team, and then cross trained members from ISRU, mining, and habitats.Mining and mining vehicle, mechanics and robotics, will be several engineers and technicians, again from existing teams, with a senior lead several (3+?) practical and highly skilled experts with full ability to understand use, repair and adapt every item of their equipment, (including 1 crane/lifting engineer/driver) and (2+?) "geologist(s)" and mining engineers who have the skills to mine safely and the understanding to find and extract the resources.Habitat may be one lead base architect, and a team that was pre-planned from the other mission members to be redeployed to base construction at suitable windows in their primary mission.I DO DEFINITELY think a highly skilled medical professional will be needed. Rather a surgeon than an MD. There is a high chance of falls, broken bones, open fracture complicated by Mars dust ingress frostbite and "bends", which will be survivable but need surgery to rebuild or amputate. Despite the low gravity, there will be large masses, and high energy equipment used in pressing situations. There is also illness and medical research in a general sense. Poisoning issues to do with Mars compounds, despite an assumed attempt to keep contaminants our of habitats etc. Plus possibly a pure science role, and being a second in the ECLSS team. Possibly an army vet with battlefield medical experience, or industrial injury trauma surgeon. Several other expedition members will be crash trained in trauma medical support. (a second trained paramedic would be a priority)If "mars brick" is to be made or "mars concrete" etc likely a key developer of each technology will be slotted in where possible.There will be a "farmer" or plant scientist, who may spend a lot more time in secondary roles. Although "cook" may be entirely secondary, it may be prioritised due to its importance to health and motivation. EM and Kimbal will want trials of various plans and systems to inform the next developments, even if initially they are small experiments. However it may even be a useful vegetable component!!! Even in the first synod.So min 4 on the expert ISRU team (+2 from pad building)and 6 on the mining and geology team (they will also help "build" the ISRU)2 pad construction and cryo fuelling experts 1 base architect1 "trauma surgeon" 1 paramedic1 plant scientist 1 ECLSS lead/expert (there must be several trained up to support all parts of the ECLSS and maybe a backup lead)1 cook/ human/space health person.1 mars material utilisation engineer (plus chemistry "lab")1 Mars materials chemist/metallurgy expert/scientist (as well as above)1 Electronic communications/electronics specialist to lead on comms/satellite .. installing and fixing comms.1 programmer, although many others will have to program robots, rovers, and automated machinery and vehicles.1 power systems manager. 1 suit and airlock expert/maintenance technician1 hydraulics technician.3d printing, welding, machining, .... all skills within the teams.1 Team leaderThat's 24.26 now! Without these numbers critical items could be slow or be jeopardised. If things go wrong, almost anything can be fixed. (which is what you need.) If things go well, they can do extra exploration, scout for a second base/mine ... investigate specific features .... or do research for SX, NASA, or academic institutions. or other science. (so the metallurgist is very important looking towards plans for the second manned synod)Add 1 Starship captain and 2 seconds/Starship engineers. Many if not all will have to have had at least one previous trip to orbit, and some have EVA practice, etc.I bet there is a person or two from NASA - maybe a scientist. Nearly 32 now!
That's 24.26 now! Without these numbers critical items could be slow or be jeopardised.
I agree on all except the medical crew. I volunteer (every weekend through the winter) for a First Responder organization. While we do have medical professionals who tend to fill in teaching/certification roles, there are members from all walks of life. All the crew should get First Responder training at the bare minimum. For any trauma, the first half hour is key to survival. ABCD = Airway (blockages?) Breathing (air getting to lungs regularly?) Circulation (is the heart functioning correctly). Once a patient is stabilized, you can take your time to figure out what is wrong, Telemedicine can take care of all the specialized treatments the crew will most likely not encounter. I know; 48 minutes is the worst case round trip communication from earth. Medical trauma requires a calm and patient person with the right supplies and equipment to keep someone alive, long enough to make sure you get the treatment right.I am only offering this information so all y'all can focus on crew that maximize the success of the initial excursion (IMHO = ISRU). Okay, finding one trauma doc or field paramedic who is also a fit for any other role is a plus; especially when the earth surgeon says stick a needle or cut into someone! In the very worst case scenario, there are plenty of examples of self-surgery in extreme cases, some very crude, and some with the assistance of a remote doctor providing guidance.Edit: Which gets you back to 24! :-D
I find it very suprising that people appear to be serious about sending 20-30 or more peope on the first Mars mission (must be a wind up no?)
Quote from: Slarty1080 on 01/05/2019 08:14 pmI find it very suprising that people appear to be serious about sending 20-30 or more peope on the first Mars mission (must be a wind up no?)The plan is to send 2 manned Starships along with 2 cargo ships. 10-15 for each manned ship, so 20-30 in total seem appropriate.
Quote from: guckyfan on 01/05/2019 08:34 pmQuote from: Slarty1080 on 01/05/2019 08:14 pmI find it very suprising that people appear to be serious about sending 20-30 or more peope on the first Mars mission (must be a wind up no?)The plan is to send 2 manned Starships along with 2 cargo ships. 10-15 for each manned ship, so 20-30 in total seem appropriate.Don't forget the two preplaced cargo ships from the previous synode. 4 cargo ships plus 2 manned ships would mean approximately 500 tonnes of supplies. That's a lot.
Quote from: guckyfan on 01/05/2019 08:34 pmQuote from: Slarty1080 on 01/05/2019 08:14 pmI find it very suprising that people appear to be serious about sending 20-30 or more peope on the first Mars mission (must be a wind up no?)The plan is to send 2 manned Starships along with 2 cargo ships. 10-15 for each manned ship, so 20-30 in total seem appropriate.Well that sounds a bit more realistic, but still seems high to me. Why would they need so many people? Some of them sound a little redundant:1 cook/ human/space health person - this is in addition to the "trauma surgeon" and paramedic. To have a dedicated cook sounds nice but most of the food will be prepacked and what isn't will be limited so it sounds like over kill to me better have 3-5 tons of additional stuff (rovers, science kit, contingency supplies, solar panels etc)Team leader - there will need to be a team leader, but that role will be taken by one of the engineering or science team or the commander. No need for additional intermediate managers.What is the hydraulics technician going to do for 99% of the time?And the base architect?
Perhaps my original guess of a crew of 4 might get stretched a little. I could see 6 or even 8 on a Starship, but I would be very surprised to see 12 or more on the first missions.The way I see it there will be intense competition for cargo space from different design teams and interest groups (see below) so there will be some horse trading – ok a cook / chef – but they must also be a qualified engineer. Or leave the programmer at home any reprogramming can be handled from Earth its less than an hour away and a whole team on programmers can be all over the code.Here is some of the completion for mass as I see it:The astronaut selection and training team will be bombarded by requests for sending crew trained in every imaginable discipline by the other teams. Everything from cookery to hydraulics will be requested and suggested. I’m sure the initial list will be huge as people here have suggested. But there will be many other voices. The ISRU team will want a truly huge solar farm with cabling, a small chemical gas plant, electrical switchgear, an electrolysis plant, compressors, filters, tanks, drills and a small bulldozer / utility vehicle. The survey team will want two large pressurised rovers and perhaps 2 small utility moon buggy type vehicles, two space suits for everyone (with spares), an on ship laboratory with glove boxes handling facilities and large amounts of science kit ranging from geologists hammers to spectrophotometers, microscopes, drills, sampling equipment, bags boxes…The medical team will want; well I dread to think of the amount of kit. Everything from stethoscopes to an MRI scanner and enough medicine to sink a battleship. The ECLSS people will argue for a massive ECLSS with a range of consumables such as filters, spares for everything twice over and a large contingency of oxygen, nitrogen and water just in case. The people responsible for building the Starship will be saying wait 100 tons is for the empty shell! What about the decks, the connecting corridor, beds, doors, tables, chairs, 2-3 toilets, 2-3 showers, pumps pipes tanks, acceleration couches, comms equipment, carpet, the galley, and so on.Then someone is going to add it all up and say there’s not enough mass to go round somethings going to have to give.
Snip...One advantage of the SX Spaceship program is that there is going to be one final crew selection board consisting of only the SX CTO for the first Mars wave. IMO
It seems like something is missing from this discussion. Where's the water? The character of the first missions will be to prove a reliable source of water for fuel production. You must have provable quantities of water before dropping in 100's of tonnes of infrastructure. I agree that later missions will need most everything you can imagine but the thread is titled "Crew for first Mars Mission". I assume this means a permanent settlement site has not been established.