Cost of liquid engines only:4 RL-10's $80M4 RS-25E's ($55M each) $220M= $300MNow add two SRBs and tanks and ......So the incremental cost is well over $500M.The pad costs are hopefully not more than the previously estimated $800M/year (includes everything: processing, GSE, VAB, pad - maintence, operations).That puts the minimum absolute cost if you launched 2 a year at not less than $1B each launch. At 1 per year it is about $1.4B each launch. But in budget for the year launching two in 1 year requires a budget of $2B but launching only 1 a year requires only a budget of $1.4B.
Quote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 01/21/2018 04:16 amCost of liquid engines only:4 RL-10's $80M4 RS-25E's ($55M each) $220M= $300MNow add two SRBs and tanks and ......So the incremental cost is well over $500M.The pad costs are hopefully not more than the previously estimated $800M/year (includes everything: processing, GSE, VAB, pad - maintence, operations).That puts the minimum absolute cost if you launched 2 a year at not less than $1B each launch. At 1 per year it is about $1.4B each launch. But in budget for the year launching two in 1 year requires a budget of $2B but launching only 1 a year requires only a budget of $1.4B.That's before payload, of course. Add an Orion and a ride-share DSG module each time for typical budgets.
SLS 1B = not less than $501M (NOTE this is a very optimistic estimate)
Quote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 01/21/2018 03:17 pmSLS 1B = not less than $501M (NOTE this is a very optimistic estimate)For a production run of 22 vehicles, I got a price of $511M each using NASA cost models.
So was wondering why SLS kept the clean-pad design of the Ares I ML and tower vs moving the FSS to the Pad surface like Shuttle. The clean pad made sense for Ares as you had two separate LVs, but with SLS after EM-1/only Block 1A flight the vehicle should have a fixed height for umbilicals. By removing the Tower from the ML you free up a lot of space and most importantly weight on it.
SLS4 RS-25's ($55M each) $220M2 SRB's ($30M each) $60MTank Core $75MAvionics $25M (rad hard, commonality with EUS)= $380M
Quote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 01/21/2018 03:17 pmSLS4 RS-25's ($55M each) $220M2 SRB's ($30M each) $60MTank Core $75MAvionics $25M (rad hard, commonality with EUS)= $380MWhere do you get $60M per SRB set?The last big SRM production contract that ATK Thiokol was awarded (in 2002) was $2.4B for 70 SRM sets, or $34.3M each or $68.6M per set.However that was for volume production of at least 5 sets per year, and the SLS is originally set up for no more than 1.5 launches per year. Plus the SLS SRM's are larger than the Shuttle SRM's.Based on all of that I'd be surprised if a SLS SRM set cost less than $100M per set.
Right, and the assembled whole is always more than all the pieces separately.SLS is simply expensive. Just the hardware is expensive.There's a way around this: Make SLS reusable. Flyback boosters AND the core. I'm aware of one such recent proposal, but it went nowhere, not even a pre-phase-A study.(To make this feasible, it may be necessary to stretch the upper stage.)
Quote from: Robotbeat on 01/23/2018 12:54 amRight, and the assembled whole is always more than all the pieces separately.SLS is simply expensive. Just the hardware is expensive.There's a way around this: Make SLS reusable. Flyback boosters AND the core. I'm aware of one such recent proposal, but it went nowhere, not even a pre-phase-A study.(To make this feasible, it may be necessary to stretch the upper stage.)Getting Orion to a space station in low lunar orbit may also require a stretched upper stage.
Low lunar orbit isn't a very good place for a space station, tho.
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 01/23/2018 12:47 amQuote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 01/21/2018 03:17 pmSLS4 RS-25's ($55M each) $220M2 SRB's ($30M each) $60MTank Core $75MAvionics $25M (rad hard, commonality with EUS)= $380MWhere do you get $60M per SRB set?The last big SRM production contract that ATK Thiokol was awarded (in 2002) was $2.4B for 70 SRM sets, or $34.3M each or $68.6M per set.However that was for volume production of at least 5 sets per year, and the SLS is originally set up for no more than 1.5 launches per year. Plus the SLS SRM's are larger than the Shuttle SRM's.Based on all of that I'd be surprised if a SLS SRM set cost less than $100M per set.His model is assuming costs associated with high rate of SRM production but low rate of RS-25 production. All in all, you can call it a wash.
Quote from: Steven Pietrobon on 01/22/2018 05:30 amFor a production run of 22 vehicles, I got a price of $511M each using NASA cost models.Vehicle unit cost or full operational cost?
For a production run of 22 vehicles, I got a price of $511M each using NASA cost models.
How many vehicles per year launched?
]Low lunar orbit isn't a very good place for a space station, tho.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 01/23/2018 01:20 am]Low lunar orbit isn't a very good place for a space station, tho.An LLO space station is not necessary. The station we want is on the Moon, not LLO.
If you want a reusable rocket, take out a blank sheet of paper and design one. It will look nothing like SLS with reusable bits.