Because that's not affordable on the first flight... everyone has to be doing myriad useful things or someone that can and will do so should have been sent....
Quote from: Lar on 08/23/2016 12:50 pmBecause that's not affordable on the first flight... everyone has to be doing myriad useful things or someone that can and will do so should have been sent....While I tend to agree, this might depend on the price. There are apparently a number of people willing to pay 150Mio Dollars to fly around the moon. If somebody offered 10 times that much for a flight to Mars, would SpaceX really reject such an offer?
I expect when they land a ramp will come down and the crue will disembark in aTESLA all electric Mars rover. This mission is going to have company names and free devices from companies with big logos all over them. Intuitive surgical medical robot etc. First mission to Mars will be 1-2 year long advertisers dream
Quote from: corneliussulla on 08/28/2016 01:28 pmI expect when they land a ramp will come down and the crue will disembark in aTESLA all electric Mars rover. This mission is going to have company names and free devices from companies with big logos all over them. Intuitive surgical medical robot etc. First mission to Mars will be 1-2 year long advertisers dreamThis is SO "The Man Who Sold the Moon".
Time for a bump.2018 is almost upon us. SpaceX tells us they are still attempting meet Elon's schedule for the first manned missions to Mars. For this to be true, wouldn't we expect to see the identification/selection of the first astronauts by now? At least an announcement of how and when to decide on a crew. Training takes time so I'm surprised there have been no announcements up to now of how and when the selection of crew(s) will be made. Do you believe there is a credibility disconnect between the schedule goal and the lack of initial crew identification?It has been discussed that the BFS control will probably be largely controlled by computer rather than by astronauts so astronauts will be effectively be passengers rather than pilots. Should this be true, I personally doubt it, then that aspect of training would be eliminated. But still time appears to be running short. Is it time for NASA to get aboard with at least some of their existing personnel?
Quote from: testguy on 11/17/2017 05:51 pmTime for a bump.2018 is almost upon us. SpaceX tells us they are still attempting meet Elon's schedule for the first manned missions to Mars. For this to be true, wouldn't we expect to see the identification/selection of the first astronauts by now? At least an announcement of how and when to decide on a crew. Training takes time so I'm surprised there have been no announcements up to now of how and when the selection of crew(s) will be made. Do you believe there is a credibility disconnect between the schedule goal and the lack of initial crew identification?It has been discussed that the BFS control will probably be largely controlled by computer rather than by astronauts so astronauts will be effectively be passengers rather than pilots. Should this be true, I personally doubt it, then that aspect of training would be eliminated. But still time appears to be running short. Is it time for NASA to get aboard with at least some of their existing personnel?I don't think you should doubt that the entire ship will be automated. However, crew will need to be trained to fix the systems should they go wrong. Since those systems have not yet been built, it's not really possible to train anyone to fix them.
Quote from: JamesH65 on 11/17/2017 06:57 pmQuote from: testguy on 11/17/2017 05:51 pmTime for a bump.2018 is almost upon us. SpaceX tells us they are still attempting meet Elon's schedule for the first manned missions to Mars. For this to be true, wouldn't we expect to see the identification/selection of the first astronauts by now? At least an announcement of how and when to decide on a crew. Training takes time so I'm surprised there have been no announcements up to now of how and when the selection of crew(s) will be made. Do you believe there is a credibility disconnect between the schedule goal and the lack of initial crew identification?It has been discussed that the BFS control will probably be largely controlled by computer rather than by astronauts so astronauts will be effectively be passengers rather than pilots. Should this be true, I personally doubt it, then that aspect of training would be eliminated. But still time appears to be running short. Is it time for NASA to get aboard with at least some of their existing personnel?I don't think you should doubt that the entire ship will be automated. However, crew will need to be trained to fix the systems should they go wrong. Since those systems have not yet been built, it's not really possible to train anyone to fix them.SpaceX need not follow the 'professional astronaut' model. Individuals on Mars will need to be creative and innovative problem solvers and techies, since for much of the time, they won't have an army of Earth-based personnel choreographing their every move. They have 7,000 employees who are proving quite adept at getting hardware built and launched... this is the pool from which they should select* their technical experts, 'crew' if you will. There will be room for scientists like field geologists, analytical chemists, biologists (and for medical professionals) that they may lack in the workforce, so there will be some outside selection.If they vertically integrate all the way up to the astros being sent, then they are training that cadre already.* Another perk
Quote from: AncientU on 11/17/2017 07:25 pmSpaceX need not follow the 'professional astronaut' model. Individuals on Mars will need to be creative and innovative problem solvers and techies, since for much of the time, they won't have an army of Earth-based personnel choreographing their every move. They have 7,000 employees who are proving quite adept at getting hardware built and launched... this is the pool from which they should select* their technical experts, 'crew' if you will. There will be room for scientists like field geologists, analytical chemists, biologists (and for medical professionals) that they may lack in the workforce, so there will be some outside selection.If they vertically integrate all the way up to the astros being sent, then they are training that cadre already.* Another perkThat is a way of looking at it that I hadn’t considered. It makes perfect sense that employees designing and building the physical systems are by default in training. I like it. Not being addressed today is training for the space environment in LEO and BEO.
SpaceX need not follow the 'professional astronaut' model. Individuals on Mars will need to be creative and innovative problem solvers and techies, since for much of the time, they won't have an army of Earth-based personnel choreographing their every move. They have 7,000 employees who are proving quite adept at getting hardware built and launched... this is the pool from which they should select* their technical experts, 'crew' if you will. There will be room for scientists like field geologists, analytical chemists, biologists (and for medical professionals) that they may lack in the workforce, so there will be some outside selection.If they vertically integrate all the way up to the astros being sent, then they are training that cadre already.* Another perk
I think the Mars crews will need some flight experience in LEO, Cis-Lunar, and especially on the surface of the Moon.
That seems to be one of the best reasons to go back to the Moon, establish a settlement there (not just a few tin cans and 2 week stays)... a few months should be sufficient if there is ongoing settlement expansion work in progress.
The Moon could be the low gravity "simulator" training facility for exploration/Mars surface work crews where handling equipment and oneself in low gravity and in a suit becomes quite a endeavor. It would be the ultimate after training in underwater...A once or twice a year Mars candidates training excursion to the Moon where 100 to 200 passengers each flight are taken to the Moon for a month or two stay to get acclimated to what life is like in low gravity.
The presumption is that there would be a large enough base on the Moon to house that many temporary personnel. Once though there is enough initial Mars missions with highly trained personnel such that new arrivals at Mars can then receive their training once at Mars the Moon training program would probably be discontinued and replaced by tourists.
Quote from: AncientU on 11/18/2017 06:03 pmI think the Mars crews will need some flight experience in LEO, Cis-Lunar, and especially on the surface of the Moon.The BFS will be capable of spins around local space, so that could be part of a "shakedown" cruise to get experience for everyone involved before leaving for Mars.Not sure what staying on the surface of our Moon will provide, since it's half the gravity of Mars and the sunrise/sunset schedule is completely different.QuoteThat seems to be one of the best reasons to go back to the Moon, establish a settlement there (not just a few tin cans and 2 week stays)... a few months should be sufficient if there is ongoing settlement expansion work in progress.If Musk sees value in it they will do that, but so far it only sounds like Musk will only go to our Moon if others are going there and need a ride.And the only reason I see for creating a settlement on our Moon is because there is an interest in expanding humanity onto our Moon, not because it's a staging point for Mars. If we're going to Mars, the quickest and least expensive way to do that is to go directly to Mars.