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SpaceX Vehicles and Missions => SpaceX Missions Section => Topic started by: Chris Bergin on 12/16/2014 08:05 PM

Title: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/16/2014 08:05 PM
Discussion Thread for TESS mission.

NSF Threads for TESS : Discussion (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36349.0) / Updates (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45038.0) / L2 TESS Updates and Images (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45034.0) / L2 SpaceX March/April Updates (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45130.0)

NSF Articles for TESS :
TESS – the latest exoplanet finder – in final preparations for launch (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/03/tess-exoplanet-finder-final-preparations-launch/)
SpaceX successfully launches TESS on a mission to search for near-Earth exoplanets (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/04/tess-launch-mission-search-near-earth-exoplanets/)


Successful launch on April 18, 2018 at 1851 EDT/2251 UTC on Falcon 9 (using the final new Block 4 booster, B1045) from SLC-40 at KSC.  ASDS landing was successful.


December 16, 2014
NASA Awards Launch Services Contract for Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite

NASA has selected SpaceX to provide launch services for the Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite (TESS) mission. TESS will launch aboard a Falcon 9 v1.1 launch vehicle, with liftoff targeted for August 2017 from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida.

The total cost for NASA to launch TESS is approximately $87 million, which includes the launch service, spacecraft processing, payload integration, tracking, data and telemetry, and other launch support requirements.

TESS’s science goal is to detect transiting exoplanets orbiting nearby bright stars. During a three-year funded science mission, TESS will sample hundreds of thousands of stars in order to detect a large sample of exoplanets, with an emphasis on discovering Earth- and super-Earth-sized planets in the solar neighborhood.

The Launch Services Program at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida is responsible for management and oversight of the Falcon 9 v1.1 launch services for TESS. The TESS Mission is led by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, with oversight by the Explorers Program at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland.



Other SpaceX resources on NASASpaceflight:
   SpaceX News Articles (Recent) (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/spacex/)
   SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews) (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21862.0)
   SpaceX Dragon Articles (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/dragon/)
   SpaceX Missions Section (with Launch Manifest and info on past and future missions) (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=55.0)

   L2 SpaceX Section (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=60.0)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: abaddon on 12/16/2014 08:21 PM
Nice to see SpaceX win a NASA contract!  Anyone (Jim) know what tier this satellite is considered?  B?

Here's a little more info on TESS from Gunter's: http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/explorer_tess.htm.  From that page:

Quote
A launch vehicle has not been selected now, but TESS is baselined with Athena-2c or Taurus-3210, both with additional Star-37FM kick motor. The baselined launch site is Cape Canaveral. Also Antares and Falcon-9 v1.1 are considered.

Sounds like Atlas V was not a consideration.  The satellite is quite light, so I am guessing F9 will be able to do the job without any additional assistance.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ugordan on 12/16/2014 08:25 PM
The LSP manifest (http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/NASA_FPB_8_12_14_Manifest_Release_10_01_2014.pdf) shows TESS as a Medium Class mission.

Atlas V is grossly overpowered for this payload and so is Falcon 9 (I think, that periapsis is rather high...). OSC site (http://www.orbital.com/SatelliteSpaceSystems/ScienceEnvironment/TESS/) states a launch mass of just 325 kg, albeit to a highly eccentric orbit that goes all the way out to the Moon's distance.

So Atlas might not have been even considered. I wonder what that says about the other options like Antares and Athena and their cost?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: yokem55 on 12/16/2014 08:25 PM
This is the first time I've seen the all inclusive pricing for a full launch services contact for SpaceX published. $62 million for just a rocket, $87 for the whole package....
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ugordan on 12/16/2014 08:28 PM
This is the first time I've seen the all inclusive pricing for a full launch services contact for SpaceX published. $62 million for just a rocket, $87 for the whole package....

Jason-3 contract (http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2012/jul/HQ_C12-029_RSLP-20_Launch_Services.html) price was also published over 2 years ago.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Comga on 12/16/2014 08:43 PM
This is the first time I've seen the all inclusive pricing for a full launch services contact for SpaceX published. $62 million for just a rocket, $87 for the whole package....

Let's hope this is one of the hypothesized "$6-10M" RTLS flights.
Of course, if they try there will be people on this forum complaining that SpaceX is not prioritizing the payload by reserving fuel for boost-back.   :o
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ncb1397 on 12/16/2014 08:43 PM
So Atlas might not have been even considered. I wonder what that says about the other options like Antares and Athena and their cost?

Probably more to do with reliability questions than it does cost given Athena was out of production for so long with a bad track record to boot and Antares is undergoing a re-design with a very recent failure.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: joshcryer on 12/16/2014 08:45 PM
Fantastic news for SpaceX and TESS. TESS is going to be a Kepler on steroids. It's going to really nail planets around down sun-like stars. Every time the TESS folks do a presentation you will be shocked by the numbers they're expecting. 20 million stars at 30 minute cadence (Kepler's ability). It also has one of the most fascinating orbital mechanics (http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/new-explorer-mission-chooses-the-just-right-orbit/) I've ever seen. Should be stable for decades without station keeping.

Here's a good overview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2BpwTh5eLs
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ugordan on 12/16/2014 08:51 PM
Probably more to do with reliability questions than it does cost given Athena was out of production for so long with a bad track record to boot and Antares is undergoing a re-design with a very recent failure.

Maybe the orbit requirement (108 000 km periapsis) makes it difficult to do with solid upper stage vehicles. That leaves what, 1 Delta II out of VAFB and F9?

Nevermind that, just saw the orbital insertion plan in the video above. It's your "basic" GTO/TLI-type injection from LEO, but goes out to a 250 000 km apogee and the spacecraft does the rest of the maneuvering work.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Comga on 12/16/2014 09:13 PM
Nice to see SpaceX win a NASA contract!  Anyone (Jim) know what tier this satellite is considered?  B?

Here's a little more info on TESS from Gunter's: http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/explorer_tess.htm (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/explorer_tess.htm).  [snip]

Also from that page and the NASA link above the target orbit is  17 Earth Radii × 59 Earth Radii

That requires a two or three burn profile for the second stage.  Something like #1 to a (negative something) by 150 km "orbit", #2 to 150 by 110,000 km (17 Re) #3 to 110,00 by 376,000 km.  With such a light payload it might be possible to go directly from staging to (negative something) by 110,000 and avoid the additional relight.

A quick calculation says that it would take ~64 hours, over 2.5 days, to do the half orbit from LEO to 110,00 km for the last burn.  That's a long time for the second stage to function. 

edit: Per ugordon's edit above "Never Mind".  A fairly nominal suprasyncronous transfer orbit insertion.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ugordan on 12/16/2014 09:14 PM
That requires a two or three burn profile for the second stage. 

See my comment above.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: mhlas7 on 12/16/2014 09:55 PM
Fantastic news for SpaceX and TESS. TESS is going to be a Kepler on steroids. It's going to really nail planets around down sun-like stars. Every time the TESS folks do a presentation you will be shocked by the numbers they're expecting. 20 million stars at 30 minute cadence (Kepler's ability). It also has one of the most fascinating orbital mechanics (http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/new-explorer-mission-chooses-the-just-right-orbit/) I've ever seen. Should be stable for decades without station keeping.

Here's a good overview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2BpwTh5eLs

At 15:08 there is a good animation of the orbital insertion
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Norm38 on 12/16/2014 11:50 PM
That's a great overview video, one of the best I've seen for a science mission.
When they show the mockup with people standing next to it, it's quite small.  Can tell why they need a passively stable orbit, not much room for fuel.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ChrisC on 12/17/2014 12:15 AM
Fantastic news for SpaceX and TESS. TESS is going to be a Kepler on steroids. It's going to really nail planets around down sun-like stars. Every time the TESS folks do a presentation you will be shocked by the numbers they're expecting. 20 million stars at 30 minute cadence (Kepler's ability). It also has one of the most fascinating orbital mechanics (http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/new-explorer-mission-chooses-the-just-right-orbit/) I've ever seen. Should be stable for decades without station keeping.

Here's a good overview:

Fantastic information, thanks joshcryer!

I'm a huge fan of Kepler -- have watched every one of their news conferences, starting before launch.  In fact, just this morning I was listening to this interview with a planetary scientist, talking about Kepler, TESS and JWST.

http://www.planetary.org/multimedia/planetary-radio/show/2014/sara-seager-and-the-search-for-earths-twin.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: yg1968 on 12/17/2014 03:58 AM
This NASA press release from a month ago on the next phase for TESS also belongs in this thread:
http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/nasa-s-tess-mission-cleared-for-next-development-phase/#.VJEM4iuG-1Q
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: joshcryer on 12/17/2014 06:53 AM
I'm a huge fan of Kepler -- have watched every one of their news conferences, starting before launch.  In fact, just this morning I was listening to this interview with a planetary scientist, talking about Kepler, TESS and JWST.

Same here, Borucki made me fall in love with the transit concept when I first learned of Kepler. I later watched an old Neil deGrasse Tyson course (The Inexplicable Universe: Unsolved Mysteries) where he talked about a "promising transit technique that hasn't been tried yet." Turns out it was not just promising, it was the best technique possible. And to think when Borucki first envisioned it the technology didn't even exist yet.

To add to the thread for others interested, TESS has social media pages.

Twitter @ MIT: https://twitter.com/TESSatMIT

Twitter @ NASA: https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS

Web @ MIT: http://space.mit.edu/TESS/

Web @ NASA: http://tess.gsfc.nasa.gov/

Facebook (they update mostly here, but I'm sure it'll change as time gets closer): https://www.facebook.com/NASATESS

Finally, TESS announced that they won't have a proprietary data period, and that they'll be dumping the data to the community as soon as possible on this FB post: https://www.facebook.com/NASATESS/posts/744397388947684
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: edkyle99 on 12/21/2014 03:42 PM
So Atlas might not have been even considered. I wonder what that says about the other options like Antares and Athena and their cost?
Athena 2c is supposedly priced at $65 million, less than the $87 million now allocated for this Falcon 9 launch, but NASA would also have had to fund a Star 37 kick motor for an Athena 2c launch, not to mention restarting the long-dormant SLC 47 launch site.  Falcon 9 probably also provides a lot more wiggle room on weight growth.

I wonder where the second stage will be disposed.

 - Ed kyle
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: abaddon on 12/21/2014 04:58 PM
Ed, you're comparing a full contract including services to one without.  That is not an apples to apples comparison.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: baldusi on 12/21/2014 10:01 PM
So Atlas might not have been even considered. I wonder what that says about the other options like Antares and Athena and their cost?
Athena 2c is supposedly priced at $65 million, less than the $87 million now allocated for this Falcon 9 launch, but NASA would also have had to fund a Star 37 kick motor for an Athena 2c launch, not to mention restarting the long-dormant SLC 47 launch site.  Falcon 9 probably also provides a lot more wiggle room on weight growth.

I wonder where the second stage will be disposed.

 - Ed kyle
IIRC, the certification cost for the first NASA mission was expected to be 10M. The Athena 2c certification should cost about the same, shouldn't it?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: catdlr on 03/20/2015 09:32 PM
NASA | The Search for New Worlds is Here

Published on Mar 20, 2015
The Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite (TESS) is an astrophysics Explorer-class mission between NASA and MIT. After launching in 2017, TESS will use four cameras to scan the entire sky, searching for planets outside our Solar System, known as exoplanets. The mission will monitor over 500,000 of the brightest stars in the sky, searching for dips in their brightness that would indicate a planet transiting across. TESS is predicted to find over 3,000 exoplanet candidates, ranging from gas giants to small rocky planets. About 500 of these planets are expected to be similar to Earth's size. The stars TESS monitors will be 30-100 times brighter than those observed by Kepler, making follow-up observations much easier. Using TESS data, missions like the James Webb Space Telescope can determine specific characteristics of these planets, including whether they could support life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsPStvGgNuk
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Prober on 03/21/2015 01:31 AM
So Atlas might not have been even considered. I wonder what that says about the other options like Antares and Athena and their cost?
Athena 2c is supposedly priced at $65 million, less than the $87 million now allocated for this Falcon 9 launch, but NASA would also have had to fund a Star 37 kick motor for an Athena 2c launch, not to mention restarting the long-dormant SLC 47 launch site.  Falcon 9 probably also provides a lot more wiggle room on weight growth.

I wonder where the second stage will be disposed.

 - Ed kyle

Didn't ULA have one more Delta II to bid with?   
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/21/2015 01:40 AM
In some of Tory Bruno's interviews he has mulled it not being worth the effort to sell the last white tail.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 03/21/2015 01:47 AM
I don't think Delta II would be competitive with Falcon 9 now.  The article I found on last Delta II purchases said NASA paid $400M for 3 flights (including processing and everything else).  SpaceX has been offering that for less than $90M/flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 03/21/2015 12:48 PM
I don't think Delta II would be competitive with Falcon 9 now.  The article I found on last Delta II purchases said NASA paid $400M for 3 flights (including processing and everything else).  SpaceX has been offering that for less than $90M/flight.

That makes the last Delta II cost more than a Atlas V: D II $133M to Atlas V 401 $120M. So yes it is not worth the effort.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Robotbeat on 03/21/2015 12:53 PM
NASA pays more than $120m for an Atlas V.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: baldusi on 03/21/2015 01:48 PM
NASA pays more than $120m for an Atlas V.
Yes, I believe that they pay something like 180 for a 401 and 320 for a 551.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Zed_Noir on 03/21/2015 03:55 PM
Quote

Didn't ULA have one more Delta II to bid with?

Can only be launch from SLC-2W at VAFB. Which ULA might want to close down after the 2017 ICESat-2 mission to further reduce the upkeep cost for their pads.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Jim on 03/21/2015 04:05 PM
SLC-2 is owned by NASA
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Zed_Noir on 03/21/2015 04:18 PM
SLC-2 is owned by NASA
Was thinking of the staffing & GSE cost for the pad.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: arachnitect on 03/21/2015 06:26 PM
I don't think Delta II would be competitive with Falcon 9 now.  The article I found on last Delta II purchases said NASA paid $400M for 3 flights (including processing and everything else).  SpaceX has been offering that for less than $90M/flight.

That makes the last Delta II cost more than a Atlas V: D II $133M to Atlas V 401 $120M. So yes it is not worth the effort.

The latest (and probably final) Delta II launch for IceSat-2 was about $97M. But they might not have been able to offer that price for TESS.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 05/27/2016 01:53 PM
Tweet from Sara Seager (https://twitter.com/ProfSaraSeager/status/736178422205026304)
Quote
Looks like we’ll be spending Xmas 2017 at Cape Canaveral. New TESS launch date “no earlier than 20 December, 2017”
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Star One on 10/07/2016 08:23 AM
NASA’s TESS Mission Will Provide Exciting Exoplanet Targets for Years to Come

NASA's search for planets outside of our solar system has mostly involved very distant, faint stars. NASA’s upcoming Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite (TESS), by contrast, will look at the brightest stars in our solar neighborhood.

After TESS launches, it will quickly start discovering new exoplanets that ground-based observatories, the Hubble Space Telescope and, later, the James Webb Space Telescope, will target for follow-up studies. TESS is scheduled to launch no later than June 2018. Astronomers are eagerly anticipating the possibility that, in the near future, all three space missions could be studying the sky at the same time.

“The problem is that we’ve had very few exoplanet targets that are good for follow-up,” said TESS Project Scientist Stephen Rinehart at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. “TESS will change that.”

Planets around closer, brighter stars are ideal for follow-up study because they'll produce stronger signals than planets around more distant stars. These planets have a higher signal-to-noise ratio, which measures the ratio of useful information — the signal — to non-useful information — the noise — that a telescope receives. These signals might also include a chemical sampling of an exoplanet's atmosphere, which is an exciting prospect for scientists hoping to search for signs of life on distant worlds.

TESS will do the initial roundup of exoplanets, with the potential to identify thousands during its projected two-year mission. One of TESS’ main science goals is to identify 50 rocky worlds, like Earth or Venus, whose masses can be measured.

“The search for exoplanets is a bit like a funnel where you pour in lots of stars,” said TESS Deputy Science Director Sara Seager at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), Cambridge. “At the end of the day, you have loads of planets, and from there you need to find the rocky ones.”

The TESS Science Center will help identify and prioritize the TESS Objects of Interest (TOI) for follow-up. TOI are objects that scientists believe could be exoplanets based on TESS data. Ground-based telescopes will confirm which TOI are exoplanets, and from there will help determine which are rocky. The center is a partnership between MIT's Physics Department and Kavli Institute for Astrophysics and Space Research — where TESS Principle Investigator George Ricker resides — the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and NASA’s Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, California.

The main thing space- and ground-based telescopes hope to find out about the TESS targets with follow-up observations is what these exoplanet atmospheres are like. Exoplanet atmosphere exploration is one of the Webb telescope's four main science goals.

NASA's Webb telescope and ground-based telescopes will determine the atmospheres of exoplanets using spectroscopy. In this process, telescopes look at the chemical signatures of the light passing through exoplanet atmospheres. This signature can tells scientists what chemicals are in the planetary atmosphere, and how much of each there are. It can also help scientists determine whether a planet could be habitable.

“There are a couple of things we like to see as a potential for habitability – one of them is water, which is probably the single most important, because as far as we know, all life that we’re familiar with depends on water in some way,” Rinehart said. “The other is methane, which on our Earth is produced almost entirely biologically. When you start seeing certain combinations of all of these things appearing together – water, methane, ozone, oxygen – it gives you a hint that the chemistry is out of equilibrium. Naturally, planets tend to be chemically stable. The presence of life throws off this balance.”

Exoplanets aren’t the only science that will come out of the TESS all-sky survey, however. While scientists expect to spot a transit signal that could reveal exoplanets around only about one out of 100 stars, virtually every star in the sky will be monitored carefully and continuously for at least 27 days, resulting in a wide variety of variability to be explored.

The TESS Guest Investigator (GI) Program will allow for deeper investigations of astronomically interesting objects, either through TESS data alone, or by identifying interesting variables for further study with the Webb telescope, Hubble and other ground- and space-based telescopes. The GI Program will look at variable objects, such as flare stars, active galaxies and supernovae, and may even discover optical counterparts to distant transient events, such as gamma-ray bursts. Only the number and type of exciting proposed ideas the program receives limit what TESS will find through the GI Program.

Between the mission’s exoplanet survey and the GI Program, TESS will provide the best follow-up targets for many missions to come.

“TESS not only will provide targets for the Webb telescope, but for every telescope we plan to build on the ground and in space over the next two decades,” said Mark Clampin, director of the Astrophysics Science Division at Goddard. With such an exciting future, scientists from around the world are watching the progress of the TESS mission, and anxiously awaiting its launch.

Related Links

NASA's TESS website
TESS project website
By Elaine Hunt
NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md.

Last Updated: Oct. 5, 2016
Editor: Rob Garner
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Hobbes-22 on 10/07/2016 09:48 AM
The thread title still says v1.1, but I assume TESS will be launched on a F9 v1.2 instead?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: AbuSimbel on 10/07/2016 12:35 PM
The thread title still says v1.1, but I assume TESS will be launched on a F9 v1.2 instead?
Or 1.3 as suggested by recent news  ;) maybe it's better to remove the v number altogether
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Lar on 10/07/2016 07:28 PM
Let's not go down the "is Falcon the US Proton" road, ok?

I actually had a warning queued up earlier but figured you all weren't going to go down that road...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Mader Levap on 10/07/2016 08:07 PM
It is a good thing then that this is not launched on something that "de facto" is the American version of Proton.
Well, since Lar warned against discussing F9 vs Proton, I will say just that: two failures in 14 months is unacceptable. Period. No wild handwaves nor endless excuses will change that.

I do not want for F9 to launch anything important (read: costing billions) any time soon. It must prove itself all over again from scratch.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Lar on 10/07/2016 08:10 PM
It is a good thing then that this is not launched on something that "de facto" is the American version of Proton.
Well, since Lar warned against discussing F9 vs Proton, I will say just that: two failures in 14 months is unacceptable. Period. No wild handwaves nor endless excuses will change that.

I do not want for F9 to launch anything important (read: costing billions) any time soon. It must prove itself all over again from scratch.
Take it to another thread. Second warning.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Archibald on 10/09/2016 10:34 AM
I didn't realized that a) TESS was going to fly next year and b) it was booked to a Falcon 9. Considering Kepler (including the K2 mission) outstanding results, I just can't imagine what TESS results will be.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 10/11/2016 06:36 AM
I didn't realized that a) TESS was going to fly next year and b) it was booked to a Falcon 9. Considering Kepler (including the K2 mission) outstanding results, I just can't imagine what TESS results will be.

The article above says "TESS is scheduled to launch no later than June 2018." Considering how spacecraft and launches are so often delayed, I would expect a launch to be in 2018.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Sam Ho on 10/11/2016 04:49 PM
The thread title still says v1.1, but I assume TESS will be launched on a F9 v1.2 instead?
Or 1.3 as suggested by recent news  ;) maybe it's better to remove the v number altogether
Tweet from Sara Seager (https://twitter.com/ProfSaraSeager/status/736178422205026304)
Quote
Looks like we’ll be spending Xmas 2017 at Cape Canaveral. New TESS launch date “no earlier than 20 December, 2017”
I didn't realized that a) TESS was going to fly next year and b) it was booked to a Falcon 9. Considering Kepler (including the K2 mission) outstanding results, I just can't imagine what TESS results will be.

The article above says "TESS is scheduled to launch no later than June 2018." Considering how spacecraft and launches are so often delayed, I would expect a launch to be in 2018.

According to their website, all of the above are true.  It still says launch is on F9 v1.1 (despite that launcher no longer existing) and gives both December 2017 as the working launch date and June 2018 as the NLT date.

Quote
SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 Launch Vehicle
Quote
The TESS launch date is NLT June 2018 (the current working launch date is December 2017).

https://tess.gsfc.nasa.gov/launch.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: speedevil on 12/25/2016 06:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyvnXvZMOfA

This is a SETI video on TESS.

(http://i.imgur.com/qmZN1om.jpg)

It includes immediately after this at 26 minutes or so a short discussion of the launcher, along with some shots of TESS structural fit testing on a F9 mockup. And a ridiculous to-scale in the fairing image.
At about 1:01, there is a discussion of the original designs, and the plans for launching on the orbital sciences Taurus/Minotaur-C which has a maximum payload to LEO of 1350kg but by the time the vehicle got picked, it was too late to optimise.
F9 was the lowest bidder..

Other notable facts - it ends up in its final 14 day orbit which is metastable, and the anticipation is that they need 50 or so grams of fuel a year to do desaturations. It has 20kg of fuel remaining of the 40kg initial hydrazine, and no other consumables.

"Launch around the end of 2017, maybe a bit later" - which is consistent with above in thread.
(odd - for some reason the thread title was accidentally changed)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Star One on 01/02/2017 08:22 PM
Quote
Jeff Foust – ‏@jeff_foust
At #ExoPAG mtg, NASA’s Martin Still says TESS exoplanet mission on track, but Dec. launch on F9 could slip due to SpaceX schedule issues.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/816015605748867073
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Star One on 01/05/2017 08:44 PM
Quote
Jeff Foust –  ‏@jeff_foust

Hertz’s chart of missions shows a Dec 2017 launch date for TESS. But hearing launch schedule issues will delay it to early 2018. #AAS229

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/817090471377780736
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: rockets4life97 on 01/05/2017 10:08 PM
This shouldn't be surprising since TESS is like number 30 something on SpaceX's launch manifest...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 01/06/2017 06:07 PM
Tweet from NASA_TESS (https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/817415259753508866)
Quote
After review of the SpaceX Falcon 9 launch vehicle certification schedule & anomaly recovery @NASA_TESS launch date has moved to NET 3/20/18

No surprise there, middle of the previously stated December to June window.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 03/28/2017 06:00 PM
Tweet from Jeff Foust: (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/846745928656654340)
Quote
Hertz adds TESS launch on a Falcon 9 slipped from December 2017 to March 2018 because of NASA launch vehicle certification delays.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Comga on 03/28/2017 09:26 PM
Tweet from Jeff Foust: (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/846745928656654340)
Quote
Hertz adds TESS launch on a Falcon 9 slipped from December 2017 to March 2018 because of NASA launch vehicle certification delays.

There are now about five posts in a row giving the same delay but with evolving reasons:
"... F9 could slip due to SpaceX schedule issues."
"After review of the SpaceX Falcon 9 launch vehicle certification schedule & anomaly recovery @NASA_TESS launch date has moved .."
"...because of NASA launch vehicle certification delays."
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Norm38 on 03/29/2017 02:13 PM
And a ridiculous to-scale in the fairing image.

Based on the small size of this payload, I assume this is RTLS? Has that been announced?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: whitelancer64 on 03/29/2017 02:56 PM
And a ridiculous to-scale in the fairing image.

Based on the small size of this payload, I assume this is RTLS? Has that been announced?

TESS is 350 kg - so yes. Very RTLS.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Tomness on 03/29/2017 04:11 PM
And a ridiculous to-scale in the fairing image.

Based on the small size of this payload, I assume this is RTLS? Has that been announced?

TESS is 350 kg - so yes. Very RTLS.

Good candate for a falcon 1 type veh or ride share
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: pb2000 on 03/29/2017 04:38 PM
And a ridiculous to-scale in the fairing image.

Based on the small size of this payload, I assume this is RTLS? Has that been announced?

TESS is 350 kg - so yes. Very RTLS.

Good candate for a falcon 1 type veh or ride share

The final orbit is a bit unique, which may not be very useful to other spacecraft.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Comga on 03/29/2017 06:20 PM
And a ridiculous to-scale in the fairing image.

Based on the small size of this payload, I assume this is RTLS? Has that been announced?

TESS is 350 kg - so yes. Very RTLS.

Good candate for a falcon 1 type veh or ride share

Better is the enemy of good enough.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Skyrocket on 03/29/2017 08:17 PM
And a ridiculous to-scale in the fairing image.

Based on the small size of this payload, I assume this is RTLS? Has that been announced?

TESS is 350 kg - so yes. Very RTLS.

Good candate for a falcon 1 type veh or ride share

Just for the record - the alternatives considered were Athena-2c or Taurus-3210, both with additional Star-37FM, an Antares with kick-motor or the unmodified, but somewhat oversized Falcon-9.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: abaddon on 03/29/2017 09:07 PM
Just for the record - the alternatives considered were Athena-2c or Taurus-3210, both with additional Star-37FM, an Antares with kick-motor or the unmodified, but somewhat oversized Falcon-9.
Interesting, I did not know Antares was certified to carry a Class B (I think?) payload.  Or was anticipated to be certified to do that.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Skyrocket on 03/29/2017 10:05 PM
Just for the record - the alternatives considered were Athena-2c or Taurus-3210, both with additional Star-37FM, an Antares with kick-motor or the unmodified, but somewhat oversized Falcon-9.
Interesting, I did not know Antares was certified to carry a Class B (I think?) payload.  Or was anticipated to be certified to do that.
AFAIK, Antares was anticipated to be certified to do that.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 03/31/2017 05:48 PM
Quote
A look inside the @NASA_TESS spacecraft @OrbitalATK; @NASA's next #exoplanet hunter!

https://twitter.com/nasa_tess/status/847866169709166592 (https://twitter.com/nasa_tess/status/847866169709166592)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Zed_Noir on 04/01/2017 10:17 AM
....
Just for the record - the alternatives considered were Athena-2c or Taurus-3210, both with additional Star-37FM, an Antares with kick-motor or the unmodified, but somewhat oversized Falcon-9.

Out of the launch alternatives, the Falcon 9 was the low bid for the TESS mission. No wonder LockMart shelf the Athena. Since it appears to be non-competitive. Think it will get worst for the small sat launch providers, now that the "flight proven"  Falcon 9 enters the picture.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 05/19/2017 05:54 PM
From the recent GAO overview of NASA projects (pdf file) (http://www.gao.gov/assets/690/684626.pdf) that has been mentioned in a couple other threads:

Quote
Cost and Schedule Status
The TESS project delayed its launch readiness date by 7 months from August 2017 to March 2018 due to launch vehicle and instrument-related delays, but it still plans to launch before its committed launch date and within its cost baseline. ...

Launch
According to NASA officials, several launch vehicle related issues led to the delay in TESS’s planned launch date. First, SpaceX required additional time to certify its upgraded Falcon 9 through NASA’s Launch Services Program since it will be the first time that NASA will use this version of the vehicle. The certification process includes criteria, such as having six successful launches. In addition, SpaceX needed time to investigate and resolve an anomaly that caused a September 2016 launch mishap. NASA has renegotiated its launch contract with SpaceX to account for these delays. SpaceX continues to upgrade the Falcon 9 and, as part of the negotiation process, NASA gained the right not to be the first launch on the planned Block 5 version of the vehicle.

PROJECT OFFICE COMMENTS
In commenting on a draft of this assessment, TESS project officials said they are on track to meet their March 2018 launch date, and are holding a significant amount of schedule reserves

Hopefully Block 5 will be flying before TESS anyway.  I assume it can fly on Block 5 if that version of the rocket has some successful launches by then.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 06/27/2017 03:15 PM
Quote
The spacecraft team @OrbitalATK checks out the installation of one of the two solar arrays that will provide power to @NASA's @NASA_TESS.

https://twitter.com/nasa_tess/status/879707138720882689 (https://twitter.com/nasa_tess/status/879707138720882689)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Kesarion on 07/27/2017 01:58 PM
http://spacenews.com/cameras-on-nasa-exoplanet-spacecraft-slightly-out-of-focus/

Quote
The TESS team thinks there will be a 10 percent cut in terms of the number of planets that they expect to be able to detect.
Quote
Despite the reduction, Boss said TESS scientists believe they will still be able to meet the mission’s primary science requirements, and thus there is no need to fix the cameras.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Star One on 07/28/2017 06:43 PM
http://spacenews.com/cameras-on-nasa-exoplanet-spacecraft-slightly-out-of-focus/

Quote
The TESS team thinks there will be a 10 percent cut in terms of the number of planets that they expect to be able to detect.
Quote
Despite the reduction, Boss said TESS scientists believe they will still be able to meet the mission’s primary science requirements, and thus there is no need to fix the cameras.

Quote
Jeff Foust @jeff_foust
Updated our article on TESS spacecraft camera focus issue with additional NASA comment playing down the problem:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/890951536141975553

From the revised article.

Quote
Chou added July 28 that the out-of-focus area is limited to the outer edges of the image, and that “recent testing shows that the camera focus towards the image center is better than originally designed.”
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Semmel on 07/28/2017 07:25 PM
Well, that makes sense. I am working on scientific instruments, not on TESS though. It is common that the focal surface of some optical system is curved (spherical) but the detector usually flat. There are curved detectors but they are experimental and not used (yet). So imagine a spherical focal surface intersected by a flat detector surface. If you minimize the offset between both surfaces everywhere, both the center and the edges of the flat detector surface are somewhat out of focus. The optimal focus is on a ring somewhere in between. If the optics is such that the edges are more out of focus, by geometry, the center is more in focus, meaning the flat detector surface is closer to the spherical optical focal surface.
For this reason, usually the detector or optics can be pistoned just a little bit to adjust the focus for operational conditions. This is done manually in commissioning and not touched later. Unless the conditions change of course. I am surprised that TESS does not have such a system.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jgoldader on 07/29/2017 12:16 PM
There's a ppt about camera construction and testing here at NTRS:
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20160010628.pdf

The cameras are f/1.4, so I expect focusing is going to be dodgy to begin with, with significant field curvature.  As Semmel noted above, the focal "plane" is curved, but the CCDs are not.  The best you can get is some optimal focus, which in the perfect world would cause only minimal PSF (point-spread function, basically the shape of a point source, like a star) variation across the field.  All this can be modeled (see the NTRS paper above, there are PSF models on p. 28) and surely, they thought the optical system design was adequate.  From the SpaceNews article, it sounds like the CCDs might be too far forward or backward on the optical axis (the remark about glue crystallization makes me think of expansion or contraction).

The reason for reduced effectiveness in finding planets is that if you spread the PSF over more pixels, you add noise to the photometry, because each pixel contributes noise.  More noise means you are less sensitive to smaller variations in brightness.  So, near the center of the FOV, all could be well, but the signal-to-noise ratios would be lower than expected farther from the center of the field.

The article says the mission should meet its primary goals, so it's not immediately clear if the PSF is actually out-of-spec, or just not as good as hoped for.  It isn't obvious that anybody even messed up; it could be that the sample tests and such didn't scale up as expected based on some reference formula.  In any case, the final word won't come until TESS is in space and has outgassed and cooled.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Semmel on 07/29/2017 08:24 PM
I didn't check the optical system. F/1.4 is pretty fast indeed. For those who don't know that is the ratio of rays convergence to focus. So imagine a defocus if 5 microns, than the PSF would become larger by 5/1.4=3.5 microns. With such a fast beam, the surface roughness of the CCD becomes problematic. I can't talk about what the surface of our CCDs looks l like, but the lowest to highest point can be more than 10 microns hight difference. This alone can mean that the size of the PSF varies by more than a pixel in diameter over the field, even with perfect optics.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Comga on 07/30/2017 05:17 AM
Well, that makes sense. I am working on scientific instruments, not on TESS though. It is common that the focal surface of some optical system is curved (spherical) but the detector usually flat. There are curved detectors but they are experimental and not used (yet). So imagine a spherical focal surface intersected by a flat detector surface. If you minimize the offset between both surfaces everywhere, both the center and the edges of the flat detector surface are somewhat out of focus. The optimal focus is on a ring somewhere in between. If the optics is such that the edges are more out of focus, by geometry, the center is more in focus, meaning the flat detector surface is closer to the spherical optical focal surface.
For this reason, usually the detector or optics can be pistoned just a little bit to adjust the focus for operational conditions. This is done manually in commissioning and not touched later. Unless the conditions change of course. I am surprised that TESS does not have such a system.
There is no curvature of field in the design
(The first two authors are Primeau and Chrisp.  They are terrific optical designers and optimized several orders beyond field curvature.)
That the center is better than expected and the edges worse is probably a complex issue of tolerancing.
And "crystallization" may be a simplification of having the bond material pass its glass transition temperature warmer or colder than expected. Beyond that point the coefficient of thermal expansion changes significantly.
Passive focus of very cold instruments is really tricky. Even for JPL.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jg on 07/30/2017 04:27 PM
Well, that makes sense. I am working on scientific instruments, not on TESS though. It is common that the focal surface of some optical system is curved (spherical) but the detector usually flat. There are curved detectors but they are experimental and not used (yet). So imagine a spherical focal surface intersected by a flat detector surface. If you minimize the offset between both surfaces everywhere, both the center and the edges of the flat detector surface are somewhat out of focus. The optimal focus is on a ring somewhere in between. If the optics is such that the edges are more out of focus, by geometry, the center is more in focus, meaning the flat detector surface is closer to the spherical optical focal surface.
For this reason, usually the detector or optics can be pistoned just a little bit to adjust the focus for operational conditions. This is done manually in commissioning and not touched later. Unless the conditions change of course. I am surprised that TESS does not have such a system.
There is no curvature of field in the design
(The first two authors are Primeau and Chrisp.  They are terrific optical designers and optimized several orders beyond field curvature.)
That the center is better than expected and the edges worse is probably a complex issue of tolerancing.
And "crystallization" may be a simplification of having the bond material pass its glass transition temperature warmer or colder than expected. Beyond that point the coefficient of thermal expansion changes significantly.
Passive focus of very cold instruments is really tricky. Even for JPL.
Or the corrector plates aren't up to snuff.  F1.4 is extremely fast and making the corrector plates for that kind of optical design really difficult.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ccdengr on 07/30/2017 06:27 PM
Or the corrector plates aren't up to snuff.
This is an all-refractive lens with seven elements, two aspherical.

If you read the report you'll see that the assembly flow is very complex and finicky.  If I had been reviewing this design I'd have been very skeptical that a high level of athermalization was a realistic expectation -- the results don't look too bad to me.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jg on 07/30/2017 06:43 PM
Or the corrector plates aren't up to snuff.
This is an all-refractive lens with seven elements, two aspherical.

If you read the report you'll see that the assembly flow is very complex and finicky.  If I had been reviewing this design I'd have been very skeptical that a high level of athermalization was a realistic expectation -- the results don't look too bad to me.

Even more routine f/2.0 systems are really hard to get right. 

The ATLAS design, a Wright Schmidt f/2.0 system, which are being used with flat 10Kx10K CCD chips, found their original corrector plates were not well enough made, and have been replacing them.  http://www.fallingstar.com/specifications.php This caused focus problems (rather, you could never get the size images you needed).

I am a member of the Amateur Telescope Makers of Boston.  One of our members is an optical technician who fabricates a lot of precision optics for satellites and ground systems, and I chatted with him about ATLAS's problems. Making big pieces of aspheric glass (with the surfaces different), is really quite hard according to him.  F/1.4 is much more of a nightmare.  If they have "good enough" optics, great. 

ATLAS didn't have "good enough", so had to have them remade, as it makes a factor of five in ATLAS' asteroid detection rate.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: as58 on 07/30/2017 07:25 PM
There's more detail in TESS status update from the recent APAC meeting: https://smd-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/science-red/s3fs-public/atoms/files/Ricker_TESS_APAC_July%202017_v5.pdf
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: LouScheffer on 07/30/2017 09:44 PM

There is no curvature of field in the design

I think a better statement would be "as far as practical, the focal plane has no curvature".  If you look at the graphs of lens performance (see TESS status (https://smd-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/science-red/s3fs-public/atoms/files/Ricker_TESS_APAC_July%202017_v5.pdf), page 10) you will see that if you get best focus in the middle, best focus at 6o degrees off axis needs a 20 micron shift, then 40 microns at 12 o, then back to 20 microns at 16o.  This is pretty typical - best focus typically looks like a low order polynomial in distance from the center.   

The fundamental problem is that a flat focal surface is a very "unnatural" configuration.  Each surface, when varied, produces a smooth radial function of best focus.  But the function is different for every surface, so all you can do is get them to cancel approximately.  This also induces tough constraints on other surfaces as well.

To see how hard optical systems need to work to approximate a flat field is, consider  this paper (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Wilfried_Jahn/publication/306304379_Tunable_Curvature_of_Large_Visible_CMOS_Image_Sensors_Towards_New_Optical_Functions_and_System_Miniaturization/links/581a1f3e08aeffb2941312d8.pdf).  By allowing a curved focal plane, with otherwise the same specs, the reduce a design with 14 lenses, 2 aspheres, and 10 types of glass, to a design with 9 lenses, no aspheres, and 3 types of glass.

Or intuitively, how does your eye get such good results for a single lens made of jelly?  A lot of it is because your retina is a strongly curved focal surface.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jg on 07/30/2017 09:51 PM

There is no curvature of field in the design

I think a better statement would be "as far as practical, the focal plane has no curvature".  If you look at the graphs of lens performance (see TESS status (https://smd-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/science-red/s3fs-public/atoms/files/Ricker_TESS_APAC_July%202017_v5.pdf), page 10) you will see that if you get best focus in the middle, best focus at 6o degrees off axis needs a 20 micron shift, then 40 microns at 12 o, then back to 20 microns at 16o.  This is pretty typical - best focus typically looks like a low order polynomial in distance from the center.   

The fundamental problem is that a flat focal surface is a very "unnatural" configuration.  Each surface, when varied, produces a smooth radial function of best focus.  But the function is different for every surface, so all you can do is get them to cancel approximately.  This also induces tough constraints on other surfaces as well.

To see how hard optical systems need to work to approximate a flat field is, consider  this paper (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Wilfried_Jahn/publication/306304379_Tunable_Curvature_of_Large_Visible_CMOS_Image_Sensors_Towards_New_Optical_Functions_and_System_Miniaturization/links/581a1f3e08aeffb2941312d8.pdf).  By allowing a curved focal plane, with otherwise the same specs, the reduce a design with 14 lenses, 2 aspheres, and 10 types of glass, to a design with 9 lenses, no aspheres, and 3 types of glass.

Or intuitively, how does your eye get such good results for a single lens made of jelly?  A lot of it is because your retina is a strongly curved focal surface.

Another example of flat image plane, but at very high cost, is the Baker/Schmidt design of LSST.

https://www.lsst.org/about/tel-site/optical_design

It is *really* hard to get a wide flat focal plane of large chunks of sky.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Comga on 07/31/2017 03:23 AM

There is no curvature of field in the design

I think a better statement would be "as far as practical, the focal plane has no curvature".  If you look at the graphs of lens performance (see TESS status (https://smd-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/science-red/s3fs-public/atoms/files/Ricker_TESS_APAC_July%202017_v5.pdf), page 10) you will see that if you get best focus in the middle, best focus at 6o degrees off axis needs a 20 micron shift, then 40 microns at 12 o, then back to 20 microns at 16o.  This is pretty typical - best focus typically looks like a low order polynomial in distance from the center.   

The fundamental problem is that a flat focal surface is a very "unnatural" configuration.  Each surface, when varied, produces a smooth radial function of best focus.  But the function is different for every surface, so all you can do is get them to cancel approximately.  This also induces tough constraints on other surfaces as well.

To see how hard optical systems need to work to approximate a flat field is, consider  this paper (https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Wilfried_Jahn/publication/306304379_Tunable_Curvature_of_Large_Visible_CMOS_Image_Sensors_Towards_New_Optical_Functions_and_System_Miniaturization/links/581a1f3e08aeffb2941312d8.pdf).  By allowing a curved focal plane, with otherwise the same specs, the reduce a design with 14 lenses, 2 aspheres, and 10 types of glass, to a design with 9 lenses, no aspheres, and 3 types of glass.

Or intuitively, how does your eye get such good results for a single lens made of jelly?  A lot of it is because your retina is a strongly curved focal surface.

OK
There isn't just simple Petzval curvature of field.
As you said, it looks like a complex curve that swings backward.
And the second report did indeed say "crystallization" of the bond material.
But I repeat: Passive focus at very cold temperatures is hard, even for MIT.
Curved focal planes are even harder.
edit: Or you can approximate it like the Kepler photometer.
But we are wandering from TESS
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: catdlr on 08/05/2017 03:22 AM
TESS Camera Mounting Timelapse

NASA.gov Video
Published on Aug 4, 2017


The four TESS cameras being mounted to the camera plate in preparation for integration to spacecraft at Orbital ATK in Dulles, Virginia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOj1PCtG2yk?t=001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOj1PCtG2yk
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 10/09/2017 07:10 AM
Quote
After @NASA_TESS cameras were assembled, they were carefully covered with thermal blankets.

https://twitter.com/nasa_tess/status/917134063248576513
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Star One on 10/13/2017 11:37 AM
Quote
Gerard van Belle @FringeDoctor
Ricker notes that the @NASA_TESS orbit is stable and could enable an extended mission for 20+ years.
Squee!

https://mobile.twitter.com/FringeDoctor/status/918627581389185024
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 10/13/2017 08:49 PM
The latest NASA SMSR long-term schedule shows a launch date of March 18 now instead of March 20.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Salo on 10/15/2017 08:47 AM
https://www.nasa.gov/launchschedule/
Quote
Date: June
Mission: TESS (Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: eriblo on 10/15/2017 11:48 AM
https://www.nasa.gov/launchschedule/
Quote
Date: June
Mission: TESS (Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite)
Hmm, it does say "no later than June 2018"...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 10/16/2017 07:24 AM
As of Sept 25, I know the science team were still expecting a March launch ...

--- Tony
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 10/17/2017 03:52 AM
This is one of the launches that has a hard NLT date.  So, all that info is consistent.  They are still expecting to launch in March but it can't be launched later than June.

From the TESS mission operations page at GSFC (https://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/tess/operations.html): 

Quote
The current launch window is no-earlier-than March 20, 2018 and not-later-than June 2018.

With March 20th still listed as the planned launch date.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 10/18/2017 04:47 PM
Quote
Tweet from Jeff Foust (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/920686494276378627)
Hertz: cut reserves for TESS as part of belt-tightening. Schedules reserves are tight, but believe they’ll stay on track for March 18 launch
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Star One on 10/25/2017 04:59 PM
NASA trims reserves and shifts schedules to find astrophysics cost savings

Quote
“It required us to find $27 million in savings out of our total budget” from other astrophysics programs, Hertz said. Those cuts were incorporated into an operating plan for fiscal year 2017 approved in early September, less than a month before the end of the fiscal year.

The program affected the most is the Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite (TESS), a mission to search for exoplanets that is nearing completion for launch next year. A $15 million cut came from deferring a launch payment to fiscal year 2018 and effectively eliminating the remaining budget reserves held at NASA Headquarters.

“There are no further headquarters-held reserves in TESS funding that the project has received to launch in March of 2018,” Hertz said. The progress the mission was making, with the spacecraft currently undergoing a series of tests, made him confident the mission could stick to that schedule.

“Their schedule reserves are tight, but they have schedule reserves and they can make it,” he said. Should TESS run into problems, he said, NASA would have to find cuts in other astrophysics programs to make up the difference, or not launch TESS at all.

http://spacenews.com/nasa-trims-reserves-and-shifts-schedules-to-find-astrophysics-cost-savings/
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 11/13/2017 06:17 PM
Quote
The @NASA_TESS successfully completed vibration testing @OrbitalATK! Vibration testing shakes the satellite to the real conditions that TESS will face during launch. It is vital to test the satellite to be sure it will survive the ride into orbit! https://t.co/5BQXwRexPa

https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/930150903348375557 (https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/930150903348375557)

--- Tony
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 11/13/2017 06:24 PM
Quote
The @NASA_TESS successfully completed vibration testing @OrbitalATK! Vibration testing shakes the satellite to the real conditions that TESS will face during launch. It is vital to test the satellite to be sure it will survive the ride into orbit! https://t.co/5BQXwRexPa

https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/930150903348375557 (https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/930150903348375557)

--- Tony

Attaching image from tweet.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 11/15/2017 09:37 AM
Quote
@NASA_TESS Just conducting an MSPA (Mission Service Training activity) on #DSS24. This test validates ground systems using simulated TESS (Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite ) data. 125Mbit/s will be the DSN's fastest telemetry yet. Launch planned for next year.

https://twitter.com/nascom1/status/930640984794324992 (https://twitter.com/nascom1/status/930640984794324992)

--- Tony
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ugordan on 11/15/2017 10:43 AM
Quote
125Mbit/s will be the DSN's fastest telemetry yet.

Nice!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: AncientU on 11/15/2017 07:12 PM
Quote
125Mbit/s will be the DSN's fastest telemetry yet.

Nice!

Not fast.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: woods170 on 11/16/2017 06:36 AM
Quote
125Mbit/s will be the DSN's fastest telemetry yet.

Nice!

Not fast.
Context is the keyword here. It is fast for DSN.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: shooter6947 on 11/16/2017 03:36 PM
Quote
125Mbit/s will be the DSN's fastest telemetry yet.

Nice!

Not fast.
Context is the keyword here. It is fast for DSN.

Seriously.  In what way is this not fast.  Galileo was 10bps, New Horizons maybe 1000bps.  125Mbps is astounding.  That's faster than my cable modem!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: LouScheffer on 11/16/2017 03:37 PM
Quote
125Mbit/s will be the DSN's fastest telemetry yet.

Nice!

Not fast.
Historically, most space missions are X-band, and the total X-band bandwidth reserved for all near Earth missions combined is 50 MHz.  (See this Chart of Space Bands (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_space_bands).)

So historically it is fast, and presumably is K band where the bandwidth is greater (as is Kepler, which was the previous record holder, I think...)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 11/16/2017 03:51 PM
So historically it is fast, and presumably is K band where the bandwidth is greater (as is Kepler, which was the previous record holder, I think...)

It's a Ka-transmitter from Space Micro

--- Tony
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 11/18/2017 01:16 PM
Quote
Launching in 2018, @NASA's next exoplanet hunter @NASA_TESS will find thousands of new worlds around stars outside of our solar system. @MIT @NASAGoddard @TESSatMIT @OrbitalATK @MITLL https://t.co/E0TYHwJnQ7

https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/931620883688550407 (https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/931620883688550407)

--- Tony
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Seamus on 12/07/2017 11:19 PM
Quote
Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.) quizzed Zurbuchen about the status of TESS’ launch vehicle, the SpaceX Falcon 9. The Block 4 version of the rocket that will be used to launch TESS has yet to be certified by NASA for the mission, and Brooks asked if there were concerns that the rocket will not be certified in time.

“At this moment in time I don’t have any such concerns,” Zurbuchen said, anticipating the certification process would be completed by early 2018.

Block 4 for sure on TESS it would seem, found at the end of this article about JWST.

http://spacenews.com/independent-review-to-examine-jwst-launch-plans/ (http://spacenews.com/independent-review-to-examine-jwst-launch-plans/)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 01/01/2018 06:21 AM
Quote
Happy New Year! In 2017, @NASA_TESS  completed integration and testing. We successfully finished thermal  vacuum testing in December. In 2018, we look forward to shipping the  spacecraft to @NASAKennedy and then launch! https://t.co/UGHxWIZwFl

https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/947566244135399425 (https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/947566244135399425)

--- Tony
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 01/09/2018 07:25 AM
Quote
[email protected]_TESS successfully completed vibration and environmental testing that mirrors the conditions that the observatory will face at launch and in space. After testing was completed, the #TESS cameras were checked and successfully passed!

https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/950520468523704320 (https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/950520468523704320)

--- Tony
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 01/09/2018 05:00 PM
Tweet from Jeff Foust (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/950787077863559169):
Quote
George Ricker of MIT, at a seminar at #AAS231, says the TESS spacecraft will ship from Orbital ATK to KSC in about a month, launch in March “according to the current plan” (no earlier than March 20)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 01/10/2018 07:07 AM
Useful preview of some of the data products

Quote
(Amazing [email protected] scientist) @mustaric detailing the types of TESS data that MAST will be hosting. #AAS231 https://t.co/EJC4g7aXGl

https://twitter.com/aussiastronomer/status/950899659354058756 (https://twitter.com/aussiastronomer/status/950899659354058756)

--- Tony
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Star One on 01/23/2018 06:44 AM
An update on the focus shift issue.

Quote
TESS has not been without its problems, though. NASA confirmed last July that engineers discovered that the focus in the four cameras on TESS would drift once the cameras cool to operating temperatures after launch. At the time, the agency said that it believed the issue would not be a major problem for the mission, although other astronomers expressed concern it could affect the spacecraft’s ability to detect exoplanets.

Additional testing and analysis since then has given those involved with the mission greater confidence that they understand the focus issue and that it won’t adversely affect the mission’s science.

“Subsequent testing that we did starting this summer and then into the fall indicated that there is a model” for explaining the focus change, Ricker said at a Jan. 9 briefing about the mission during the AAS conference. “This is a very reproducible crystallization effect for one of the materials used to manufacture the lenses.”

Ricker said the mission did four months of testing on a flight spare camera to understand long-term focus effects. Those tests show that the focus of the camera drifts for about one week, then stops. “There’s essentially no measurable change after that,” he said, calling the issue a one-time “focus shift” rather than a more continuous “focus drift.”

That focus shift, he said, won’t affect the ability of TESS to meet its primary, or “Level One,” science requirements, which call for eventually measuring the mass of at least 50 planets similar in size to the Earth. The mission’s primary focus on photometry — measuring very small changes in brightness of stars — also minimizes the importance of a sharp focus.

http://spacenews.com/a-changing-of-the-guard-in-nasas-hunt-for-exoplanets/
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: MazenHesham on 01/25/2018 07:25 PM
Launch & Landing FCC permits for TESS Just came out confirming March 20th launch date ..... And
It will be a drone ship landing but much closer than the usual landing site for GTO Sats (similar to FH's center core landing site)

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82387&RequestTimeout=1000
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82383&RequestTimeout=1000
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 01/25/2018 07:30 PM
Launch & Landing FCC permits for TESS Just came out confirming March 20th launch date ..... And
It will be a drone ship landing but much closer than the usual landing site for GTO Sats (similar to FH's center core landing site)

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82387&RequestTimeout=1000
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82383&RequestTimeout=1000

And it's 39-A, I was wondering about that.

(As with all of these FCC permits, probably need the standard disclaimer that they don't actually name the payload.  Sure does look like it would be TESS.)

edit: will be interesting to see whether CRS-14 stays at SLC-40 now or switches back to 39-A.  Those TESS/Bangabandhu/CRS-14 dates wouldn't work any other way unless CRS-14 slips more.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 01/25/2018 08:27 PM
FWIW, they are process in VIP requests now as well. Several folks on the science team I know are currently jumping through the requisite hoops.

--- Tony
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: IanThePineapple on 01/26/2018 02:20 PM
Launch & Landing FCC permits for TESS Just came out confirming March 20th launch date ..... And
It will be a drone ship landing but much closer than the usual landing site for GTO Sats (similar to FH's center core landing site)

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82387&RequestTimeout=1000
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82383&RequestTimeout=1000

And it's 39-A, I was wondering about that.

(As with all of these FCC permits, probably need the standard disclaimer that they don't actually name the payload.  Sure does look like it would be TESS.)

edit: will be interesting to see whether CRS-14 stays at SLC-40 now or switches back to 39-A.  Those TESS/Bangabandhu/CRS-14 dates wouldn't work any other way unless CRS-14 slips more.

I think I saw somewhere that most/all NASA payloads would launch from 39A once the manifest and pad schedules stop going crazy (AKA once FH-1 is done and 39A is able to launch F9 again), with an occasional commercial launch from 39A to reduce strain on 40.

I haven't seen anything new about this, not sure if they're still planning to follow that plan.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 01/26/2018 08:41 PM
Launch & Landing FCC permits for TESS Just came out confirming March 20th launch date ..... And
It will be a drone ship landing but much closer than the usual landing site for GTO Sats (similar to FH's center core landing site)

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82387&RequestTimeout=1000
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82383&RequestTimeout=1000

How are you reading these as being related to TESS?  They're not.

1. TESS was contracted by NASA's LSP as a NASA Launch Services mission.  Which means that the licensing authority isn't the FAA because this isn't a "commercial launch". 

2.  Because TESS is a LSP launch, SpaceX doesn't need an STA for radio emissions from the FCC.  They will get spectrum coverage direct from the NTIA via NASA.  Again, this is only possible for non-commercial launches. 

3.  TESS is light enough (less than 400kg) that I'll be surprised if it isn't a RTLS mission, even with it being launched to HEO. 

Also, only semi-related: "Operations Start Date" isn't the planned launch date.  It's when they can start doing the testing and pre-launch checkouts on the radio systems.  If you look back at other recent missions that kept a pretty firm launch date and check their STAs you'll see that they don't plan on launching the first day of the "operations period".   


EDIT: I refuse to totally discount the possibility, as government oversight and regulation can sometimes result in weird/ridiculous applications, but I suppose it's possible that they could be forced to get an STA for any recovery operations, as it's theoretically possible to consider that as being separate from the launch operations contracted by NASA.  But these STAs aren't that, as they clearly cover a commercial launch+recovery and include the 2nd stage.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 01/26/2018 09:06 PM
Launch & Landing FCC permits for TESS Just came out confirming March 20th launch date ..... And
It will be a drone ship landing but much closer than the usual landing site for GTO Sats (similar to FH's center core landing site)

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82387&RequestTimeout=1000
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=82383&RequestTimeout=1000

How are you reading these as being related to TESS?  They're not.

1. TESS was contracted by NASA's LSP as a NASA Launch Services mission.  Which means that the licensing authority isn't the FAA because this isn't a "commercial launch". 

2.  Because TESS is a LSP launch, SpaceX doesn't need an STA for radio emissions from the FCC.  They will get spectrum coverage direct from the NTIA via NASA.  Again, this is only possible for non-commercial launches. 

3.  TESS is light enough (less than 400kg) that I'll be surprised if it isn't a RTLS mission, even with it being launched to HEO. 

Also, only semi-related: "Operations Start Date" isn't the planned launch date.  It's when they can start doing the testing and pre-launch checkouts on the radio systems.  If you look back at other recent missions that kept a pretty firm launch date and check their STAs you'll see that they don't plan on launching the first day of the "operations period".   


EDIT: I refuse to totally discount the possibility, as government oversight and regulation can sometimes result in weird/ridiculous applications, but I suppose it's possible that they could be forced to get an STA for any recovery operations, as it's theoretically possible to consider that as being separate from the launch operations contracted by NASA.  But these STAs aren't that, as they clearly cover a commercial launch+recovery and include the 2nd stage.

They had these permits for DSCOVR, NROL-76, OTV-5
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Jim on 01/26/2018 09:09 PM
NROL-76 was a commercial launch
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 01/26/2018 11:05 PM
They had these permits for DSCOVR, NROL-76, OTV-5

No, I don't think they did. 

DSCOVR-  SpaceX initially applied for an STA for the launch (https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=initial&application_seq=63562) (on 2014-12-11) but then pretty much immediately withdrew it (https://apps.fcc.gov/els/GetAtt.html?id=156958&x=.) (5 days later on 2014-12-16).  So, it was never granted.  As far as I can tell, they didn't ever reapply for another one for this mission.  I assume because they figured out they didn't need it as they were getting RF allocation through the USAF.  I chalk it up to it being their first time launching non-commercial after having had to apply for all previous launches.  But, note that in that superfluous application they do still specifically say, "Launch approval authority is 45th Space Wing, USAF."  So, in regards to TESS and the original docs we're discussing, something along those lines should definitely be in there if they were related. 

I guess I was right to set the bar low for regulatory hassles though, because it appears they did have to get an STA for the booster recovery effort (https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=63919&RequestTimeout=1000).  Which specifically says,
Quote
Experimental ocean recovery operation downrange of Cape Canaveral, following DoD-authorized launch. This STA request is limited to the TC uplink, transmitting from the commercial boat/barge. The link will also be checked-out prior to launch, at Complex 40, Cape Canaveral AFS. Launch vehicle flight communications for this mission are covered by a separate RFA.


NROL-76- As Jim already pointed out, from SpaceX's POV, NROL-76 was a commercial launch contracted by Ball Aerospace who had a deliver on-orbit deal with the NRO.  So, that's why it had an FAA launch license (even though it was never publicly released).  And why it needed the STA for RF from the FCC.  No surprises. 


OTV-5- I've looked but haven't seen any mention of STAs for this launch in any of the threads here (update, discussion, & general manifest).  Nor have I been able to find one by using the FCC's search.  If you have a link to one though, I'd be interested in reading it.  I bet it will say that USAF was the launch authority.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 01/27/2018 01:58 AM
Here is the one for OTV-5, it says nothing about the AF.  Was this also a "commercial" launch?  They don't seem very consistent about these government launches.

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=78749&RequestTimeout=1000
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 01/27/2018 02:23 AM
I understand why SpaceX shouldn't need an FCC launch permit for this flight, but it makes no sense to me that anything else would launch from 39A around the date TESS is supposed to launch.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 01/27/2018 03:47 AM
I understand why SpaceX shouldn't need an FCC launch permit for this flight, but it makes no sense to me that anything else would launch from 39A around the date TESS is supposed to launch.

Bangabandhu-1?  So TESS would launch from SLC-40 and those would be for Bangabandhu-1.  Which I think fits them better all around.  It's definitely commercial, GTO but on the lighter side so will use ASDS (and be able to adjust landing location in closer than previous GTO launches), currently planned to launch within a week or 2 from the start of operations date in the application.  Seems perfect unless you're totally wedded to TESS having to launch from LC-39A.  I get the argument for that, I just don't find it especially persuasive. 

Thanks for the other link.  Interesting.  Except for the fact that there doesn't really look like another mission it could fit, I wouldn't have paired that STA with OTV-5.  Now I'm really curious about the Air Force's contract with SpaceX for that launch.  So much so I may file a FOIA with them and the FAA to see if I'll get anything back. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Bubbinski on 01/29/2018 01:54 AM
I’ll be flying to the Cape for this launch with my mom in tow. Wondering how firm the March 20 date is. Be interesting to see if it’s from 39A or SLC-40 as that may impact where I watch this from. Hoping there’s an RTLS landing and not the barge landing noted earlier for this launch.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 02/08/2018 07:46 PM
TESS has been fully integrated and is now ready to be shipped to the launch site. Bodes well for a launch in late March.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3rkTC7YHoQ
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 02/08/2018 07:50 PM
Further confirmation of the above from their twitter:

Quote
We are getting ready to ship @NASA_TESS to @NASAKennedy for launch! #TESS https://t.co/NS57SlCgpo

https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/961680041271877632 (https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/961680041271877632)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: wolfpack on 02/08/2018 07:53 PM
Will likely visit KSC on March 20th. When will we know for certain if it's 39A or SLC-40? Only reason is the bus tour. I would skip if it 39A is off-limits on that day.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 02/08/2018 08:01 PM
Not launch related, but here's a nice visualisation of how the various datasets relate to each other:

Quote
Okay back to our regularly scheduled programming, which today means wrapping our brains around where the [email protected]_TESS/@TESSatMIT planets will come from. Solange Ramirez's attempt to diagram it out is breaking my brain. Anything we left out, @sleeplessinmit, @mrtommyb? https://t.co/ChO6RhqGNX

https://twitter.com/aussiastronomer/status/961309706298912768 (https://twitter.com/aussiastronomer/status/961309706298912768)

Where:
* TIC is the input catalogue
* CTL is the consolidated target list (some will get 2 minute cadence light curves)
* Targets is anything with a light curve (+ 30 minute cadence from the FFIs)
* TOI is TESS object of interest
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 02/08/2018 09:01 PM
Will likely visit KSC on March 20th. When will we know for certain if it's 39A or SLC-40? Only reason is the bus tour. I would skip if it 39A is off-limits on that day.

SLC-40, almost without a doubt. I don't think 39A is going to be used for anything other than Crew and Heavy launches for the foreseeable future, unless cadence requirements explode.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: JonathanD on 02/08/2018 09:05 PM
unless cadence requirements explode.

Or SLC-40 does.  Knock on wood.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: John Alan on 02/08/2018 09:07 PM
Will likely visit KSC on March 20th. When will we know for certain if it's 39A or SLC-40? Only reason is the bus tour. I would skip if it 39A is off-limits on that day.

SLC-40, almost without a doubt. I don't think 39A is going to be used for anything other than Crew and Heavy launches for the foreseeable future, unless cadence requirements explode.

Honestly... I expect TESS to fly from 39A... I guess we let the clock run and see what happens...  ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: rockets4life97 on 02/08/2018 09:07 PM
Will likely visit KSC on March 20th. When will we know for certain if it's 39A or SLC-40? Only reason is the bus tour. I would skip if it 39A is off-limits on that day.

I would expect it will launch from 39A given that it is a NASA launch and Bangabandu looks to be scheduled for late March from 40.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/08/2018 09:50 PM
Will likely visit KSC on March 20th. When will we know for certain if it's 39A or SLC-40? Only reason is the bus tour. I would skip if it 39A is off-limits on that day.

SLC-40, almost without a doubt. I don't think 39A is going to be used for anything other than Crew and Heavy launches for the foreseeable future, unless cadence requirements explode.

There is a F9 scheduled for LC-39A at that time.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 02/08/2018 10:04 PM
Will likely visit KSC on March 20th. When will we know for certain if it's 39A or SLC-40? Only reason is the bus tour. I would skip if it 39A is off-limits on that day.

SLC-40, almost without a doubt. I don't think 39A is going to be used for anything other than Crew and Heavy launches for the foreseeable future, unless cadence requirements explode.

There is a F9 scheduled for LC-39A at that time.

Derp. The very FCC launch licenses I'd posted in the Manifest thread mention 39A and KSC, so you are definitely correct. Almost certainly TESS.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: wolfpack on 02/09/2018 01:25 AM
Thanks, all. Sounds like no bus tour, then. I’ll keep my eye out on the Visitors Center website for launch viewing opportunities. My son will love it if I can actually make it happen.

Any ideas on the window for TESS?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/09/2018 02:52 AM
Thanks, all. Sounds like no bus tour, then. I’ll keep my eye out on the Visitors Center website for launch viewing opportunities. My son will love it if I can actually make it happen.

Any ideas on the window for TESS?

Apparently at some point I saw 8:00 pm, but I can't remember where or if that was for this launch date.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/10/2018 03:08 PM
SpaceflightNow (https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/) is showing 7:58pm EDT.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jpo234 on 02/15/2018 07:04 AM
https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/963882459946520577

Quote
NASA's budget states that the #Falcon9 Full Thrust received Category 2 certification in January 2018. Category 2 certification allows Falcon 9 to launch medium risk NASA payloads. This certification is needed for the #SpaceX @NASA_TESS launch, which is currently NET March 20th.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jacqmans on 02/15/2018 10:06 AM
February 14, 2018
MEDIA ADVISORY M02-18

NASA Invites Media to View TESS Spacecraft

Media are invited to view the Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite (TESS) on Tuesday, Feb. 20, at the Payload Hazardous Servicing Facility (PHSF) at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

TESS is the next step in the search for planets outside of the solar system orbiting other nearby, bright stars. The mission will find these planets (e.g., "exoplanets") that periodically block part of the light from stars while transiting across the star. The media event is an opportunity to photograph the spacecraft and interview project and program team members.

This event is open only to U.S. citizens who possess a government-issued photo identification, such as a driver's license, and proof of U.S. citizenship, such as a passport or birth certificate. Two forms of government-issued identification are required, including one with a photograph, such as a driver’s license and passport.

To apply for media credentials, go to https://media.ksc.nasa.gov. Media interested in attending this event must also RSVP via email at [email protected] The deadline for submitting credentials and to RSVP is no later than noon on Friday, Feb. 16.

Due to space restrictions, only two representatives from each media organization will be allowed to participate, and no more than 30 participants may sign up for the viewing opportunity.

As details for this event are finalized, more information will be provided about access to the PHSF, along with arrival and event times to registered media.

TESS is targeted to launch this spring on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket from Space Launch Complex 40 on Cape Canaveral Air Force (CCAFS) Station in Florida.

TESS is a NASA Astrophysics Explorer mission led and operated by MIT in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and managed by NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. Dr. George Ricker of MIT’s Kavli Institute for Astrophysics and Space Research serves as principal investigator for the mission. Additional partners include Orbital ATK, NASA’s Ames Research Center, the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and the Space Telescope Science Institute. More than a dozen universities, research institutes and observatories worldwide are participants in the mission. NASA’s Launch Services Program is responsible for launch management. SpaceX of Hawthorne, California, is the provider of the Falcon 9 launch service.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Hankelow8 on 02/15/2018 10:54 AM
February 14, 2018
MEDIA ADVISORY M02-18

NASA Invites Media to View TESS Spacecraft

Media are invited to view the Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite (TESS) on Tuesday, Feb. 20, at the Payload Hazardous Servicing Facility (PHSF) at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

TESS is the next step in the search for planets outside of the solar system orbiting other nearby, bright stars. The mission will find these planets (e.g., "exoplanets") that periodically block part of the light from stars while transiting across the star. The media event is an opportunity to photograph the spacecraft and interview project and program team members.

This event is open only to U.S. citizens who possess a government-issued photo identification, such as a driver's license, and proof of U.S. citizenship, such as a passport or birth certificate. Two forms of government-issued identification are required, including one with a photograph, such as a driver’s license and passport.

To apply for media credentials, go to https://media.ksc.nasa.gov. Media interested in attending this event must also RSVP via email at [email protected] The deadline for submitting credentials and to RSVP is no later than noon on Friday, Feb. 16.

Due to space restrictions, only two representatives from each media organization will be allowed to participate, and no more than 30 participants may sign up for the viewing opportunity.

As details for this event are finalized, more information will be provided about access to the PHSF, along with arrival and event times to registered media.

TESS is targeted to launch this spring on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket from Space Launch Complex 40 on Cape Canaveral Air Force (CCAFS) Station in Florida.

TESS is a NASA Astrophysics Explorer mission led and operated by MIT in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and managed by NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. Dr. George Ricker of MIT’s Kavli Institute for Astrophysics and Space Research serves as principal investigator for the mission. Additional partners include Orbital ATK, NASA’s Ames Research Center, the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and the Space Telescope Science Institute. More than a dozen universities, research institutes and observatories worldwide are participants in the mission. NASA’s Launch Services Program is responsible for launch management. SpaceX of Hawthorne, California, is the provider of the Falcon 9 launch service.


How the world has changed, only allowing US media to view Tess spacecraft.

I remember back in the Apollo days I had a press pass for my car and could drive around unhindered apart from all pads which were active even when I was not a US citizen.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Elthiryel on 02/15/2018 11:28 AM
It clearly states that TESS is going to launch from SLC-40, not LC-39A (as it was presumed).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: cscott on 02/15/2018 01:32 PM
It clearly states that TESS is going to launch from SLC-40, not LC-39A (as it was presumed).
And AIUI the "US citizens only" restriction is typical for launches from SLC-40, since Cape Canaveral is an active Air Force base. Launches from LC-39A are a little less restricted.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/15/2018 02:58 PM
It clearly states that TESS is going to launch from SLC-40, not LC-39A (as it was presumed).
And AIUI the "US citizens only" restriction is typical for launches from SLC-40, since Cape Canaveral is an active Air Force base. Launches from LC-39A are a little less restricted.

The restrictions are for the spacecraft viewing event, not the launch.  I'm sticking with LC-39A for the launch site until I see something a little more definitive than that press invitation.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/15/2018 03:08 PM
Ok, I saw something a little more definitive.  Apparently it switched from 39A to 40.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 02/15/2018 03:29 PM
How the world has changed, only allowing US media to view Tess spacecraft.

I remember back in the Apollo days I had a press pass for my car and could drive around unhindered apart from all pads which were active even when I was not a US citizen.

And AIUI the "US citizens only" restriction is typical for launches from SLC-40, since Cape Canaveral is an active Air Force base. Launches from LC-39A are a little less restricted.

I assume the restriction against non US-citizen members of the media is only due to the short time limits.  There are only 6 days between when they sent the invite to the event (February 14th --> 20th).  To accommodate foreign nationals, they require more time to run all the backgrounds and be able to coordinate with the facilities to ensure no ITAR violations, etc.  Usually for these type events where foreign nationals are allowed, they are required to submit their documentation ~10 days prior to the event.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/15/2018 03:45 PM
According to NASA website TESS is now NET 2018-04-16.

Quote
The mission is scheduled to launch no earlier than April 16, 2018, and no later than June 2018.

https://www.nasa.gov/content/about-tess
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Bubbinski on 02/15/2018 07:05 PM
Any reason why TESS slipped? Good thing I haven’t bought launch tickets yet. (The slip actually makes my trip work out better from a PTO standpoint so I’m not too bummed).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 02/15/2018 07:48 PM
Any reason why TESS slipped? Good thing I haven’t bought launch tickets yet. (The slip actually makes my trip work out better from a PTO standpoint so I’m not too bummed).

With major science payloads, I'd estimate a 90% chance that it was related to the spacecraft. Probably just slight delays in final integration, testing, shipment, etc.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 02/15/2018 08:18 PM
Quote
NASA reports F9 launch of TESS planet-hunting mission has slipped from March 20 to NET April 16. SpaceX requested more time for hardware readiness and to meet NASA launch service mission requirements.

https://twitter.com/flatoday_jdean/status/964245886464380929
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: pb2000 on 02/15/2018 09:28 PM
Quote
NASA reports F9 launch of TESS planet-hunting mission has slipped from March 20 to NET April 16. SpaceX requested more time for hardware readiness and to meet NASA launch service mission requirements.

https://twitter.com/flatoday_jdean/status/964245886464380929
[fake discussion]
NASA Commercial crew: Hey SpaceX, can you make some changes to your rocket for commercial crew please?
SpaceX: Yeah sure.
NASA TESS: Those changes could be unsafe, we don't want to be the fly until the rocket is proven safe.
Spacex: ....?
[/fake discussion]
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/15/2018 10:02 PM
The commercial crew changes are on block 5, TESS is using block 4.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Star One on 02/15/2018 10:47 PM
The commercial crew changes are on block 5, TESS is using block 4.

Thanks for that confirmation, mind you I thought that was fairly well known. But obviously not judging by the post above yours.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: envy887 on 02/15/2018 10:52 PM
The commercial crew changes are on block 5, TESS is using block 4.

Didn't LSP request to remain on the older version? Just like Jason 3 was the last v1.1 instead of the already flying v1.2?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: woods170 on 02/16/2018 08:30 AM
The commercial crew changes are on block 5, TESS is using block 4.
Emphasis mine.

That is partially incorrect. The changes required by NASA were more than just the re-designed turbopump and COPV 2.0. Vehicle health monitoring was another one and SpaceX has begun implementing the changes for this as early as Block 3, in conjunction with the run-up to the introduction of AFTS on Block 4. Same goes for certain aspects of vehicle software.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 02/16/2018 09:28 AM
The TESS simulated data products have now been released.

Key quote:
Quote
Though the simulation was aimed at producing the most realistic synthetic science data from the standpoint of generating the pixel data, it relies on several assumptions and simplifications that may not reflect actual mission operations and instrumental and spacecraft behavior conditions. In addition, the simulation was geared towards verifying that the ground system software met its formal requirements, and therefore some aspects of the data are not realistic.

See http://archive.stsci.edu/tess/ete-6.html (http://archive.stsci.edu/tess/ete-6.html) for details.

I'm now frantically updating my tools to cope, as the format is subtly different to Kepler, and this has pointed out flaws in my internal representation :-)

--- Tony
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jacqmans on 02/16/2018 12:23 PM
In the Payload Hazardous Servicing Facility at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida, the agency's Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite, or TESS, has been uncreated from its shipping container for inspections and preflight processing. The satellite is NASA's next step in the search for planets outside of the solar system also known as "exoplanets." TESS is a NASA Astrophysics Explorer mission led and operated by MIT in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and managed by NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. Dr. George Ricker of MIT’s Kavli Institute for Astrophysics and Space Research serves as principal investigator for the mission. Additional partners include Orbital ATK, NASA’s Ames Research Center, and the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and the Space Telescope Science Institute. More than a dozen universities, research institutes and observatories worldwide are participants in the mission. NASA’s Launch Services Program is responsible for launch management. SpaceX of Hawthorne, California, is the provider of the Falcon 9 launch service. TESS is scheduled to launch atop a Falcon 9 rocket no earlier than April 16, 2018 from Space Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.

Photo credit: NASA/Kim Shiflett
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 02/17/2018 03:26 PM
https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/963882459946520577

Quote
NASA's budget states that the #Falcon9 Full Thrust received Category 2 certification in January 2018. Category 2 certification allows Falcon 9 to launch medium risk NASA payloads. This certification is needed for the #SpaceX @NASA_TESS launch, which is currently NET March 20th.

Here’s Jeff Foust’s write-up:

Quote
NASA certifies Falcon 9 for science missions
by Jeff Foust — February 16, 2018

WASHINGTON — NASA has certified the current version of the SpaceX Falcon 9 to launch some categories of science missions, a milestone needed for the upcoming, but delayed, launch of an astronomy spacecraft.

NASA disclosed the certification in its full fiscal year 2019 budget proposal, released Feb. 14, in a section about NASA’s Launch Services Program (LSP). “In January 2018, SpaceX successfully completed ‘Category 2’ certification of the SpaceX Falcon 9 ‘Full Thrust’ with LSP which supports the launch of the NASA Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite (TESS) mission in March 2018,” it stated.

http://spacenews.com/nasa-certifies-falcon-9-for-science-missions/
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: JBF on 02/17/2018 03:56 PM
Is FT just for block 4 or will it carry over to block 5?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/17/2018 07:35 PM
Is FT just for block 4 or will it carry over to block 5?

They'll need to do some additional certification on the new Block design, but their next LSP flight isn't for a couple years so that shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 02/17/2018 09:04 PM
Is FT just for block 4 or will it carry over to block 5?

They'll need to do some additional certification on the new Block design, but their next LSP flight isn't for a couple years so that shouldn't be a problem.
Wouldn't they automatically get Category 3 certification once they get Block 5 certified for humans?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 02/17/2018 09:08 PM
Is FT just for block 4 or will it carry over to block 5?

They'll need to do some additional certification on the new Block design, but their next LSP flight isn't for a couple years so that shouldn't be a problem.
Wouldn't they automatically get Category 3 certification once they get Block 5 certified for humans?

I think those are different organizations within NASA certifying them for different purposes?  LSP is consulting on the Commercial Crew certification but isn't the human rating certification done within HEOMD?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: scr00chy on 02/17/2018 11:22 PM
Is FT just for block 4 or will it carry over to block 5?

They'll need to do some additional certification on the new Block design, but their next LSP flight isn't for a couple years so that shouldn't be a problem.
Wouldn't they automatically get Category 3 certification once they get Block 5 certified for humans?

I think those are different organizations within NASA certifying them for different purposes?  LSP is consulting on the Commercial Crew certification but isn't the human rating certification done within HEOMD?
I have no idea. It just seems to me that F9 being human rated should be enough to whomever is in charge of the Cat 3 certification, and SpaceX shouldn't need to go through the whole process with them in order to get Cat 3 certified. But who knows how all this works.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: woods170 on 02/18/2018 02:32 PM
I think those are different organizations within NASA certifying them for different purposes?  LSP is consulting on the Commercial Crew certification but isn't the human rating certification done within HEOMD?
I have no idea. It just seems to me that F9 being human rated should be enough to whomever is in charge of the Cat 3 certification, and SpaceX shouldn't need to go through the whole process with them in order to get Cat 3 certified. But who knows how all this works.
Never attribute to inefficiency what can be adequately explained by bureaucracy.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: joek on 02/18/2018 02:58 PM
Wouldn't they automatically get Category 3 certification once they get Block 5 certified for humans?

For the LV likely.  However, there is more to certification than the LV.  There are likely to be processes which are specific to human certification and which not be easily applicable to other types of payloads.

For example, minimizing LOC (loss of crew) is #1 priority over LOM (loss of mission) for human payloads; LOC does not apply to non-human payloads, where LOM is #1 priority.  The intersection of those and how one might apply to the other is unclear.

In short, "automatically get Category 3 certification" may be a stretch, but certainly some of the work on human certification should be applicable.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Star One on 02/18/2018 06:32 PM
I think those are different organizations within NASA certifying them for different purposes?  LSP is consulting on the Commercial Crew certification but isn't the human rating certification done within HEOMD?
I have no idea. It just seems to me that F9 being human rated should be enough to whomever is in charge of the Cat 3 certification, and SpaceX shouldn't need to go through the whole process with them in order to get Cat 3 certified. But who knows how all this works.
Never attribute to inefficiency what can be adequately explained by bureaucracy.

No sometimes it just is inefficiency. Some people are a little to quick to blame bureaucracy for other issues, and that in my experience usually tells you more about their personal beliefs than anything else.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 02/18/2018 08:22 PM
Never attribute to inefficiency what can be adequately explained by bureaucracy.

No sometimes it just is inefficiency. Some people are a little to quick to blame bureaucracy for other issues, and that in my experience usually tells you more about their personal beliefs than anything else.

Take it from someone who has spent a considerable portion of the last 12 months studying US spaceflight history - NASA's bureaucracy is absolutely unparalleled for a public agency (the DoD is at least as bad, if not worse, but the military-industrial complex is a whole different animal). It would be a truly a titanic feat to underestimate the sheer level of chaos, redundancy, intra-agency competition, and baffling bureaucracy within NASA.

I've often been labeled cynical, and I was still floored by what I read in the primary and secondary source literature on NASA's organization...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: woods170 on 02/19/2018 07:25 AM
Never attribute to inefficiency what can be adequately explained by bureaucracy.

No sometimes it just is inefficiency. Some people are a little to quick to blame bureaucracy for other issues, and that in my experience usually tells you more about their personal beliefs than anything else.

Take it from someone who has spent a considerable portion of the last 12 months studying US spaceflight history - NASA's bureaucracy is absolutely unparalleled for a public agency (the DoD is at least as bad, if not worse, but the military-industrial complex is a whole different animal). It would be a truly a titanic feat to underestimate the sheer level of chaos, redundancy, intra-agency competition, and baffling bureaucracy within NASA.

I've often been labeled cynical, and I was still floored by what I read in the primary and secondary source literature on NASA's organization...

All too familiar. From what I've heard from multiple industry sources, over the years, the bureaucracy at NASA is very bad indeed. And that isn't a recent development. It was already so in the late 1970's.

Here is an example from that period:
NASA contracted with the Dutch space agency NIVR to build the IRAS satellite. The NASA part of the job was assigned by NASA HQ to Ames Research Center. Ames subsequently contracted JPL and JPL subsequently contracted Ball Aerospace to do all the actual work, including DDT&E. The latter subsequently sub-contracted Perkin-Elmer for the telescope instrument.

So, every time a major decision had to be taken regarding the telescope instrument it went from Perkin to Ball to JPL to Ames to NASA HQ. When a decision had been reached by NASA and NIVR it went back to Perkin via NASA HQ, Ames, JPL and Ball.
Needless to say, this made for a very inefficient way of getting things done. The only three things that saved the entire NASA-side of the project from grinding to a halt were:

1. Nancy Roman and Nancy Bogess relentlessly pushing the NASA bureaucracy forward to keep some sort of momentum.
2. Project technologists Jim Houck and Frank Low bending all the NASA acquisition rules by buying superior material for Ge:Ga IR sensors for just $20 from Eagle Pitcher and paying for it out of their own wallets.
3. The fact that the contract between NASA and NIVR wasn't actually a contract but a MOU: a Memorandum Of Understanding. Which is far less restrictive in what is allowed and what isn't.

Nevertheless, the result of this bureaucratic mess, as well as how this same bureaucratic mess dealt with cryogenic development trouble, was IRAS launching three years late and the US contribution to IRAS going over budget by 200 percent.

Now, compare this to the Dutch part of IRAS. NIVR contracted directly to ICIRAS (Industrial Consortium IRAS) which did all the work (DDT&E).
The result was that the Dutch contribution was ready literally years before the US contribution was ready. The Dutch contribution also stayed well within the allocated budget. Approx. 10 percent of the budget was returned by ICANS to NIVR because it wasn't needed.


But I digress.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 02/19/2018 09:07 AM
Very interesting, and while I agree - this has long been my bugbear with NASA - it is not really TESS related
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 02/19/2018 05:44 PM
Very interesting, and while I agree - this has long been my bugbear with NASA - it is not really TESS related

I had to sleep, but I was going to try to tie it back in, get us back on track ;D The point of this history segue is that being certified by LSP to launch science payloads almost certainly means NOTHING to those boards tasked with certifying for crewed launches, and that is almost entirely an irrational result of nonsensically redundant bureaucracy, duplicative and competitive field centers, and a headquarters that is about as in touch with reality as Deepak Chopra.

Now, back to the scheduled program ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Roy_H on 02/19/2018 07:46 PM
NASA’s TESS Mission Will Provide Exciting Exoplanet Targets for Years to Come
...
Exoplanets aren’t the only science that will come out of the TESS all-sky survey, however. While scientists expect to spot a transit signal that could reveal exoplanets around only about one out of 100 stars, virtually every star in the sky will be monitored carefully and continuously for at least 27 days, resulting in a wide variety of variability to be explored.
...
Related Links

NASA's TESS website
TESS project website
By Elaine Hunt
NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md.

Last Updated: Oct. 5, 2016
Editor: Rob Garner

27 days? Doesn't this have to observe a star for 2 years to expect to catch at least one transit of an inner planet?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: speedevil on 02/19/2018 07:59 PM
27 days? Doesn't this have to observe a star for 2 years to expect to catch at least one transit of an inner planet?

'No'.
It will detect a fraction of planets - naively for earthlike orbit planets about a twelfth, on one pass - though there are areas of the sky it will stare at for one year at a time (the poles).
It will detect all planets with orbits under 27 days multiple times.
In the zones of more continuous observation, it will detect all planets with periods up to about a year.

If the mission is approved and works for another two year survey of the same design, then you have about the same chance of detecting slower transiting planets you only caught once transiting again.
It would take about twenty years or more of observation to get to most planets with earth-like orbits with two transits so you can make a stab at their orbit.

However, there are many, many other instruments out there with synergies with TESS that may help complete the survey and followup on observations.

Observation pattern shown at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpViVEO-ymc
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 02/20/2018 08:32 AM
27 days? Doesn't this have to observe a star for 2 years to expect to catch at least one transit of an inner planet?

No. For M dwarfs, the periods are often very short.  For example, TRAPPIST-1 has 7 planets with periods between 1.5 days and 18.8 days ... and some of these are in the "habitable zone" (all that really means is they could have liquid water)

For G & K dwarfs the period to be in the HZ is obviously longer, but we can play a numbers game - by looking at LOTS of stars, we'll see a few transits which can be followed up from the ground - which is the big advantage TESS has over Kepler.  It is deliberately designed to look at brighter stars which can be followed up, whereas Kepler was a population study to determine the frequency of planets.

Expect me to get excited as we start to get results  :D

Edit: weird! Didn't see the above post before I write my reply ... oh well  ;D

--- Tony
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Greg Hullender on 02/20/2018 04:42 PM
Does anyone know if TESS is precise enough to measure the difference between "full transit" time (second contact to third contact) and "partial transit" time (first contact to fourth contact)? If it is, then it's possible to estimate the orbital period based on a single transit, assuming the mass and radius of the star are known. Even if that estimate is crude, it could be very helpful when observing subsequent transits if you want to know whether you missed any.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: speedevil on 02/20/2018 04:53 PM
Does anyone know if TESS is precise enough to measure the difference between "full transit" time (second contact to third contact) and "partial transit" time (first contact to fourth contact)? If it is, then it's possible to estimate the orbital period based on a single transit, assuming the mass and radius of the star are known. Even if that estimate is crude, it could be very helpful when observing subsequent transits if you want to know whether you missed any.

Transit shape is an inherent part of pretty much all planet-finding satellites are used.
Knowing the subtle shapes of the light change is required to tell you the way the planet crossed the star, if it has moons, if it was a microlensing event, if it has atmosphere, ...
The accuracy of the whole light-curve of the event sets how much data you can get out beyond just 'probably a planet', if you only have a binary event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9K6e2FVV2E is a probably too technical presentation, but many of the graphs are interesting.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: speedevil on 02/20/2018 04:56 PM
I am not sure if the transit time helps that much since the plane of the exoplanet's orbit may not be across the widest part of the star. I could be wrong, but I do not believe there is a way to tell if the transit is across a cord near the edge of the star, or across a diameter of the star.

There actually is.
Assuming the disk is a simple constantly illuminated circle (it's not).
If the 'impact' of the disk of the planet does not go all the way into the star, you get a curve that bumps up and smoothly down.
If it goes all the way in at any point, so you can see the whole disk of the planet silhuetted against the star, you get a constant brightness portion of the curve.
The ratio of brightness to the stars original brightness tells you the area of the planet, and you can look at the shape of the entry and exit to see how far 'up' the star is - as you go towards the limb of the star, the entries and exits are more gradual.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 02/20/2018 05:01 PM
Does anyone know if TESS is precise enough to measure the difference between "full transit" time (second contact to third contact) and "partial transit" time (first contact to fourth contact)? If it is, then it's possible to estimate the orbital period based on a single transit, assuming the mass and radius of the star are known. Even if that estimate is crude, it could be very helpful when observing subsequent transits if you want to know whether you missed any.

TESS 2 minute cadence certainly allows us to observe ingress & egress, but visibility depends on all sorts of other things (SNR, activity, etc), also this isn't essential anyway. Most planets have a low eccentricity, and transit duration depends on a/R*, so given R* you can get the period. For a lot of the TIC, R* is poorly constrained so you need follow up to get a more precise value.

I see I'm racing speedevil again :D , and as he says, you can tell whether you have a grazing transit or not.

--- Tony
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 02/20/2018 06:24 PM
Respectfully submitted: It's time to split this into separate UPDATES and DISCUSSION threads.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ThePonjaX on 02/20/2018 11:13 PM
27 days? Doesn't this have to observe a star for 2 years to expect to catch at least one transit of an inner planet?

'No'.
It will detect a fraction of planets - naively for earthlike orbit planets about a twelfth, on one pass - though there are areas of the sky it will stare at for one year at a time (the poles).
It will detect all planets with orbits under 27 days multiple times.
In the zones of more continuous observation, it will detect all planets with periods up to about a year.

If the mission is approved and works for another two year survey of the same design, then you have about the same chance of detecting slower transiting planets you only caught once transiting again.
It would take about twenty years or more of observation to get to most planets with earth-like orbits with two transits so you can make a stab at their orbit.

However, there are many, many other instruments out there with synergies with TESS that may help complete the survey and followup on observations.

Observation pattern shown at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpViVEO-ymc

Fantastic video.

About the steps to reach the final orbit: Is done on this way because the only way to do that? A limitation on technology avoid the possibility to get there directly? 

I've to say I'm really excited for this mission.  :D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Greg Hullender on 02/20/2018 11:15 PM
TESS 2 minute cadence certainly allows us to observe ingress & egress . . .
Thanks. That's exactly what I was looking for.

For those interested in how one squeezes all sorts of useful information out of transit info, this paper, "Transits and Occultations," by Joshua N. Winn, is an excellent resource:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1001.2010v5.pdf
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: speedevil on 02/20/2018 11:35 PM
About the steps to reach the final orbit: Is done on this way because the only way to do that? A limitation on technology avoid the possibility to get there directly? 

It was designed for a very, very much smaller and less capable rocket than the F9.
A very early version of the F9 threw DSCOVR past the moon - TESS is even lighter. It could certainly do the entire job of the rockets first stage, and part of the second stage, and get it up to lunar encounter.

I think it is possible - I haven't run the numbers carefully - that starting from a near polar launch with a recovered F9, it can directly inject into the target orbit.
It would require about 4km/s, or so once in LEO.
The telescope would only mass perhaps 150kg, which helps somewhat with this.
(this also requires a very much longer coast than even the 'starman' one)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Lar on 02/21/2018 12:44 AM
Probably too late to recalculate things now but why not change when the launcher was changed, if F9 can do a direct insertion, and TESS then has more stationkeeping capability, presumably?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: speedevil on 02/21/2018 01:00 AM
Probably too late to recalculate things now but why not change when the launcher was changed, if F9 can do a direct insertion, and TESS then has more stationkeeping capability, presumably?
I'm not sure it actually does any stationkeeping at all once in orbit.

The orbit it gets into is a resonant one with the moon, and according to the above video (around 7 minutes) is 'stable for decades'.

It may well be that there is nothing meaningful it could do with the extra fuel, if reaction wheel desaturations are not a driver of fuel use over the expected extended mission.

If the change in launcher was earlier, they would have been able to 'cheaply' gone from 4->9 cameras, and vastly improved scan speed/coverage.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: LouScheffer on 02/21/2018 01:53 AM
Probably too late to recalculate things now but why not change when the launcher was changed, if F9 can do a direct insertion, and TESS then has more stationkeeping capability, presumably?
I read where it already has enough fuel for a 20 year extended mission.   Most likely something else will fail first, or a better satellite will be launched so the analysis resources no longer make sense.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Bubbinski on 03/03/2018 01:26 AM
I’m going to the TESS launch and will be at the Cape on April 16th. Already got the time off work, now arranging flights.

GO TESS!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: rockets4life97 on 03/05/2018 11:13 PM
Did TESS slip to May? It wasn't mentioned as flying in April in the article for the Hispasat launch posted today.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 03/06/2018 12:08 AM
Did TESS slip to May? It wasn't mentioned as flying in April in the article for the Hispasat launch posted today.

The article only mentioned flights through early April.  TESS is in mid April.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Craig_VG on 03/06/2018 02:54 PM
Recent confirmation from Paul Hertz (https://science.nasa.gov/about-us/leadership/dr-paul-hertz) confirming still on schedule for April 16th:

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/971050665647763456
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Tomness on 03/07/2018 01:19 PM
Posted a couple of days ago:

Quote
Moving @NASA_TESS into the clean tent @NASAKennedy where it will wait to meet the @SpaceX Falcon 9!

https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/970737478926782467

Will TESS space craft be prepped, processed & encapsulated at Astrobotics facilities or SpaceX facilities?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Jim on 03/07/2018 04:54 PM
Posted a couple of days ago:

Quote
Moving @NASA_TESS into the clean tent @NASAKennedy where it will wait to meet the @SpaceX Falcon 9!

https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/970737478926782467

Will TESS space craft be prepped, processed & encapsulated at Astrobotics facilities or SpaceX facilities?

Neither.  It is already in the facility for those tasks.  PHSF.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: dsobin on 03/07/2018 07:54 PM
For those who are curious, PHFS is the NASA Payload Hazardous Servicing Facility.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: docmordrid on 03/08/2018 03:56 AM
For the more visually oriented,

https://science.ksc.nasa.gov/payload/lssm/facility/phsfbig.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: NX-0 on 03/08/2018 11:51 AM
That's some real 4th Grade stuff right there on a US Government webpage.
"Payload Hazardous Serviceing Facility (PHSF)"

For the more visually oriented,

https://science.ksc.nasa.gov/payload/lssm/facility/phsfbig.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: mn on 03/08/2018 02:57 PM
That's some real 4th Grade stuff right there on a US Government webpage.
"Payload Hazardous Serviceing Facility (PHSF)"

For the more visually oriented,

https://science.ksc.nasa.gov/payload/lssm/facility/phsfbig.html

And some seriously misconfigured web server here too.
https://science.ksc.nasa.gov/payload/lssm/facility/images/
https://science.ksc.nasa.gov/images/

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: speedevil on 03/08/2018 03:08 PM
https://science.ksc.nasa.gov/images/cdrom-1-95/img0014.jpg - for example - neat shuttle tile stuff.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: atsf90east on 03/08/2018 05:20 PM
That's some real 4th Grade stuff right there on a US Government webpage.
"Payload Hazardous Serviceing Facility (PHSF)"

For the more visually oriented,

https://science.ksc.nasa.gov/payload/lssm/facility/phsfbig.html
Our tax dollars, hard at work.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: mme on 03/08/2018 05:27 PM
That's some real 4th Grade stuff right there on a US Government webpage.
"Payload Hazardous Serviceing Facility (PHSF)"

For the more visually oriented,

https://science.ksc.nasa.gov/payload/lssm/facility/phsfbig.html
Our tax dollars, hard at work.
Seriously people? That web page is probably close to 20 years old and NASA probably can't get any money to completely revamp their web architecture. If they got the money, people would complain about that too. Geez.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Jim on 03/08/2018 06:03 PM
That's some real 4th Grade stuff right there on a US Government webpage.
"Payload Hazardous Serviceing Facility (PHSF)"

For the more visually oriented,

https://science.ksc.nasa.gov/payload/lssm/facility/phsfbig.html
Our tax dollars, hard at work.
Seriously people? That web page is probably close to 20 years old and NASA probably can't get any money to completely revamp their web architecture. If they got the money, people would complain about that too. Geez.

It is just a dead part of the web.  Nobody is maintaining it.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: speedevil on 03/08/2018 06:30 PM
It is just a dead part of the web.  Nobody is maintaining it.
Leaving it up, and accessible is enormously better than the likely alternative, even if it's not ideal.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Lar on 03/09/2018 01:59 AM
NASA's website is a bit off topic? Maybe? I do agree that better to leave it up than get rid of it though.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Archibald on 03/19/2018 06:34 PM
Considering how much a sci-fi nerd Musk is, and Kepler incredible results chasing exoplanets, that launch must be quite an exciting one for Elon... imagine if TESS ever finds the first Earth-like, inhabited exoplanets.

"My company launched the telescope that found the first E.T"
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: AncientU on 03/19/2018 06:47 PM
Considering how much a sci-fi nerd Musk is, and Kepler incredible results chasing exoplanets, that launch must be quite an exciting one for Elon... imagine if TESS ever finds the first Earth-like, inhabited exoplanets.

"My company launched the telescope that found the first E.T"

TESS won't have the ability to determine 'inhabited' exoplanets.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: mme on 03/19/2018 06:56 PM
Considering how much a sci-fi nerd Musk is, and Kepler incredible results chasing exoplanets, that launch must be quite an exciting one for Elon... imagine if TESS ever finds the first Earth-like, inhabited exoplanets.

"My company launched the telescope that found the first E.T"

TESS won't have the ability to determine 'inhabited' exoplanets.
TESS finds 'em, JSWT follows up with the atmospheric spectroscopy. I think it's fair to say TESS found the planet.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 03/20/2018 08:04 AM
... imagine if TESS ever finds the first Earth-like, inhabited exoplanets.

I think you're being over-optimistic. The projected yield of Earth-sized planets (<1.25 Re) from TESS is ~70 and these will predominantly be in short period orbits around M dwarfs, so "Earth-like" (and habitability) is dubious.

See Fig. 20 of here (https://arxiv.org/abs/1506.03845).

However, it will yield a great crop of planets suitable for follow-up.  I can hardly wait for the first data release.

--- Tony

Title: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Star One on 03/20/2018 09:16 AM
... imagine if TESS ever finds the first Earth-like, inhabited exoplanets.

I think you're being over-optimistic. The projected yield of Earth-sized planets (<1.25 Re) from TESS is ~70 and these will predominantly be in short period orbits around M dwarfs, so "Earth-like" (and habitability) is dubious.

See Fig. 20 of here (https://arxiv.org/abs/1506.03845).

However, it will yield a great crop of planets suitable for follow-up.  I can hardly wait for the first data release.

--- Tony

I think more the point being indicated was that the public will be interested considerably more in any Earth like planets found than the other types. Also I’d bet that the majority of any press releases will be about these ones than everything else that’s swept up, unless it’s particularly interesting or unusual. The mission’s own promo video as just posted in the update thread leans in this idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsPStvGgNuk

Anyone I am more interested in the hard reality of real detections than projections, as when it comes to exoplanets reality is often more interesting than dry projections.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Archibald on 03/22/2018 01:39 PM
I know about TESS limits. I was talking broadly / generally. Let's phrase it differently.

Musk be quite excited and proud about one of his rockets launching TESS, since that spacecraft is related to the hunt for exoplanets (where Kepler got excellent results) and in turn, Musk is a sci-fi buff.

Or maybe he just don't care and to him it is only another launch, another juicy launch contract he snatched from ULA.   ::)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Mader Levap on 03/23/2018 12:42 PM
another juicy launch contract he snatched from ULA.   ::)

AFAIK that contract was originally for ill-fated Taurus (now Minotaur-C) rocket of Orbital.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ZachS09 on 03/23/2018 01:04 PM
another juicy launch contract he snatched from ULA.   ::)

AFAIK that contract was originally for ill-fated Taurus (now Minotaur-C) rocket of Orbital.

If TESS was still manifested to launch atop the Minotaur-C, they would've added a Star 37FM fifth stage to provide the extra boost towards its targeted orbit.

http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/explorer_tess.htm
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: wannamoonbase on 03/23/2018 01:42 PM
I'm really excited for the science results from TESS.  So this bird needs to get up there.

It's a darn small payload so there should be all kinds of throw potential for the F9.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Steve D on 03/28/2018 07:20 PM
May be in Florida for this launch. Was wondering. If it scrubs for weather or some other reason when would the next launch window open? Want to build in enough extra time in the trip to cover at least 1 delay.
Steve
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 03/29/2018 03:44 AM
May be in Florida for this launch. Was wondering. If it scrubs for weather or some other reason when would the next launch window open? Want to build in enough extra time in the trip to cover at least 1 delay.
Steve

ChrisG gave a really good explanation of TESS's launch campaign in the updates thread:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45038.msg1790758#msg1790758

Assuming the April 16th date holds as the first attempt, there will be repeated attempts every day for the next 10 days followed by a 5-day stand down.  After which that pattern repeats. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Steve D on 03/29/2018 03:37 PM
May be in Florida for this launch. Was wondering. If it scrubs for weather or some other reason when would the next launch window open? Want to build in enough extra time in the trip to cover at least 1 delay.
Steve

ChrisG gave a really good explanation of TESS's launch campaign in the updates thread:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45038.msg1790758#msg1790758

Assuming the April 16th date holds as the first attempt, there will be repeated attempts every day for the next 10 days followed by a 5-day stand down.  After which that pattern repeats.


Perfect! Thanks
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Star One on 04/04/2018 09:03 PM
https://twitter.com/brs03/status/981629438470303744?s=20

Quote
Any risk of this impacting TESS on the 16th?  And do you think TESS would get priority if so?

https://twitter.com/AttwellAviation/status/981630552003502080?s=20

Quote
AFSPC-11 will get priority since its a national security launch.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: pb2000 on 04/05/2018 01:40 AM
This is what the above mentioned tweets are in reference to, just to clarify.

Quote from: James Dean (Florida Today)
ULA's Atlas V launch of Air Force's AFSPC-11 mission pushed back two days, to April 14, sometime between 4 p.m. and 10:45 p.m. EDT. No explanation offered yet.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: mn on 04/05/2018 12:52 PM
https://twitter.com/brs03/status/981629438470303744?s=20

Quote
Any risk of this impacting TESS on the 16th?  And do you think TESS would get priority if so?

https://twitter.com/AttwellAviation/status/981630552003502080?s=20

Quote
AFSPC-11 will get priority since its a national security launch.

I'm sure they also take launch constraints into consideration.

I have no idea what are the launch constraints for TESS but if they need to launch on the 16th I would imagine NASA and the AF can work it out.
Title: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Star One on 04/05/2018 01:00 PM
https://twitter.com/brs03/status/981629438470303744?s=20

Quote
Any risk of this impacting TESS on the 16th?  And do you think TESS would get priority if so?

https://twitter.com/AttwellAviation/status/981630552003502080?s=20

Quote
AFSPC-11 will get priority since its a national security launch.

I'm sure they also take launch constraints into consideration.

I have no idea what are the launch constraints for TESS but if they need to launch on the 16th I would imagine NASA and the AF can work it out.

We don’t know what the launch constraints on AFSPC-11 are, especially when we don’t even know what it is.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: mn on 04/05/2018 04:07 PM
https://twitter.com/brs03/status/981629438470303744?s=20

Quote
Any risk of this impacting TESS on the 16th?  And do you think TESS would get priority if so?

https://twitter.com/AttwellAviation/status/981630552003502080?s=20

Quote
AFSPC-11 will get priority since its a national security launch.

I'm sure they also take launch constraints into consideration.

I have no idea what are the launch constraints for TESS but if they need to launch on the 16th I would imagine NASA and the AF can work it out.

We don’t know what the launch constraints on AFSPC-11 are, especially when we don’t even know what it is.

We certainly don't know, I was just making the point of that it's not automatically higher priority just because it's a national security launch.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: RocketLover0119 on 04/05/2018 06:04 PM
Is there a booster landing on this flight?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: shooter6947 on 04/05/2018 06:08 PM
Is there a booster landing on this flight?
I haven't seen anything definitive.  My guess is:

(1) they will try to recover the booster, even tho it's a Block 4, because it will have seen only one use.

(2) it will probably be a downrange landing on the ASDS.  The payload is super-light, but it needs quite a bit of oomph to get out there, more than GTO, so won't have the spare fuel for a RTLS.

Just a guess!  Would love to have more informed data rather than my speculation if someone has it...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Johnnyhinbos on 04/05/2018 07:00 PM
This is definitely one of my favorite SpaceX launches. Excited for Tess - and I love the orbital plan...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: yokem55 on 04/05/2018 11:05 PM
Is there a booster landing on this flight?
I haven't seen anything definitive.  My guess is:

(1) they will try to recover the booster, even tho it's a Block 4, because it will have seen only one use.

(2) it will probably be a downrange landing on the ASDS.  The payload is super-light, but it needs quite a bit of oomph to get out there, more than GTO, so won't have the spare fuel for a RTLS.

Just a guess!  Would love to have more informed data rather than my speculation if someone has it...
It has the performance for RTLS per the NLS II performance website. For a C3 of 0 (the target orbit for TESS is a little less than Earth Escape velocity), Falcon 9 Full Thrust can take a payload of 1785 kg and do an RTLS flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/06/2018 04:01 AM
They still haven't updated that website since Musk asked. Using 2015 figures, I think.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: speedevil on 04/06/2018 04:12 AM
They still haven't updated that website since Musk asked. Using 2015 figures, I think.
I was joking earlier when I said the fastest way to get at the numbers might be to FOIA them - I assumed they'd be reasonably prompt.
Sigh.
maybe soon.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 04/06/2018 04:31 AM
My guess is that they may only be updated after the next NLS II on-ramp, which I believe happens every summer.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 04/06/2018 09:25 AM
It's quite astounding really that, for a rocket that's only been in service in its more-or-less current configuration for 3 years, we're already seeing it launch very important missions for NASA (TESS, in this case), NRO and the USAF. That's a tribute to SpaceX for the hard work they've done and for the way they've picked themselves up from their two very high-profile failures.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Michael Baylor on 04/12/2018 06:34 PM
Quote
The @SpaceX #Falcon9 fairing for @NASA_TESS arrived over the weekend to meet #TESS for encapsulation @NASAKennedy. After launch, TESS will find new planets around other stars, called exoplanets, that scientists will study for decades to come.

https://twitter.com/nasa_tess/status/984057626706239488
Looks like Fairing 2.0?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Raul on 04/12/2018 07:04 PM
Quote
The @SpaceX #Falcon9 fairing for @NASA_TESS arrived over the weekend to meet #TESS for encapsulation @NASAKennedy. After launch, TESS will find new planets around other stars, called exoplanets, that scientists will study for decades to come.

https://twitter.com/nasa_tess/status/984057626706239488
Looks like Fairing 2.0?

It looks. See the number of air scoops in bottom part.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWhYtM_X4AAjcNJ.jpg)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: cppetrie on 04/12/2018 07:08 PM
I’m inclined to say 2.0 as well based on comparison of other bumps and markings.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 04/12/2018 07:28 PM
Quote
The @SpaceX #Falcon9 fairing for @NASA_TESS arrived over the weekend to meet #TESS for encapsulation @NASAKennedy. After launch, TESS will find new planets around other stars, called exoplanets, that scientists will study for decades to come.

https://twitter.com/nasa_tess/status/984057626706239488
Looks like Fairing 2.0?

It does look like 2.0, I'm really surprised NASA didn't opt for the older/proven design.  The original launch date for TESS was only a month after the first Fairing 2.0 flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 04/12/2018 10:04 PM
It does look like 2.0, I'm really surprised NASA didn't opt for the older/proven design.  The original launch date for TESS was only a month after the first Fairing 2.0 flight.

Particularly odd considering the "not the first Block 5 flight" clause in the contract. I guess the second flight of Fairing 2.0 is okay, though.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: rtm5 on 04/12/2018 10:11 PM
Is there a booster landing on this flight?
I haven't seen anything definitive.  My guess is:

(1) they will try to recover the booster, even tho it's a Block 4, because it will have seen only one use.

(2) it will probably be a downrange landing on the ASDS.  The payload is super-light, but it needs quite a bit of oomph to get out there, more than GTO, so won't have the spare fuel for a RTLS.

Just a guess!  Would love to have more informed data rather than my speculation if someone has it...

It will be returning to the drone ship OCISLY. If you flip between these 2 apps, you will have launch, landing and booster info: SpaceXNow & SpaceXLaunches.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 04/13/2018 08:54 PM
TESS is tiny. Was there ever a point when it was considered a possible payload for the cancelled Falcon-1e?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: pb2000 on 04/13/2018 09:11 PM
TESS is tiny. Was there ever a point when it was considered a possible payload for the cancelled Falcon-1e?

The F9 is delivering TESS to a 200x 270 000km orbit, just a tiny bit outside the capabilities of falcon 1e.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: whitelancer64 on 04/13/2018 09:34 PM
TESS is tiny. Was there ever a point when it was considered a possible payload for the cancelled Falcon-1e?

Also, the Falcon 1e was cancelled long before the award of the TESS launch contract (in Dec. 2014), it was always going to fly on a Falcon 9.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: lonestriker on 04/14/2018 03:23 AM
TESS is tiny. Was there ever a point when it was considered a possible payload for the cancelled Falcon-1e?

Also, the Falcon 1e was cancelled long before the award of the TESS launch contract (in Dec. 2014), it was always going to fly on a Falcon 9.

In the TESS video, they said they designed it for a Minotaur and that the Falcon 9 was a "monster" IIRC.  So they designed it for a much smaller rocket and got a F9 in the end.  They would have designed it differently if it were slated for a F9 from the start.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: dror on 04/14/2018 06:35 PM
TESS is tiny. Was there ever a point when it was considered a possible payload for the cancelled Falcon-1e?

Also, the Falcon 1e was cancelled long before the award of the TESS launch contract (in Dec. 2014), it was always going to fly on a Falcon 9.

In the TESS video, they said they designed it for a Minotaur and that the Falcon 9 was a "monster" IIRC.  So they designed it for a much smaller rocket and got a F9 in the end.  They would have designed it differently if it were slated for a F9 from the start.

They knew it was F9 since 2014, do you think it had an effect on the final build?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: 2008rlctx on 04/14/2018 08:46 PM
So is it a huge let down to all of the engineers, designers, and the like that worked countless hours saving grams off of each piece of TESS that it's now the lightest payload ever flown by Falcon 9 and could have been much more massive?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: vaporcobra on 04/14/2018 09:27 PM
So is it a huge let down to all of the engineers, designers, and the like that worked countless hours saving grams off of each piece of TESS that it's now the lightest payload ever flown by Falcon 9 and could have been much more massive?

Only if it seriously impacted its ability to do good science. There's no doubt that a magnitude greater mass allowance would have enabled far greater capabilities, but TESS was built as a Medium-Class Explorer, capping its cost at $180m. That cost does not include the launch vehicle, but it still is subject to the general law that the cost of science instruments held to the same standards will grow (at a minimum) proportionally with mass.


As a fascinating segue: I am truly stunned that with the launch first contracted in 2014 for August 2017, even after vehicle failures in 2015 and 2016, TESS' launch date slipped right EIGHT MONTHS. That feels like an insane achievement, to me.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Joffan on 04/14/2018 10:11 PM
TESS is tiny. Was there ever a point when it was considered a possible payload for the cancelled Falcon-1e?

The F9 is delivering TESS to a 200x 270 000km orbit, just a tiny bit outside the capabilities of falcon 1e.

I thought TESS has a kick stage to take it up from 600 x 600 to 600 x 200,000 km ... is Falcon handling that now?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Nomadd on 04/14/2018 10:56 PM
 I assumed they weren't sending it to lunar L4/L5 because it didn't have a kick stage and the F9 2nd stage would have to fire after several days to do the job.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Joffan on 04/14/2018 11:00 PM
TESS was never going to a Lagrange Point, it has a 2:1 orbit period relative to the Moon. The orbit insertion video (which talks about the kick stage) includes an impressive Moon gravity assist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?start=216&v=mpViVEO-ymc
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 04/15/2018 03:48 AM
TESS is tiny. Was there ever a point when it was considered a possible payload for the cancelled Falcon-1e?

The F9 is delivering TESS to a 200x 270 000km orbit, just a tiny bit outside the capabilities of falcon 1e.

I thought TESS has a kick stage to take it up from 600 x 600 to 600 x 200,000 km ... is Falcon handling that now?

The orbital insertion plan is different now.  Falcon is going to put it in a 200 km x ~275,000 km x 28.5 deg. initial orbit and the spacecraft's thrusters will perform a series of raising and phasing burns to get to the lunar encounter.  No more kick stage.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308260951_Monte_Carlo_Analysis_as_a_Trajectory_Design_Driver_for_the_TESS_Mission

http://spaceflight101.com/tess/tess-orbit-design/


Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Norm38 on 04/15/2018 03:54 AM
So that is a pretty big benefit of the switch to F9. Eliminating the kick stage must eliminate a fair number of failure modes, a lot of complexity and all the cost that goes with that.
Not having to scrap over every gram can’t hurt either.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: wannamoonbase on 04/15/2018 04:25 AM
So that is a pretty big benefit of the switch to F9. Eliminating the kick stage must eliminate a fair number of failure modes, a lot of complexity and all the cost that goes with that.
Not having to scrap over every gram can’t hurt either.

That and a couple hundred million bucks cheaper.

I look forward to seeing what probes NASA produces when launches are $60 million instead of $200 or $300.

Surely there are scientists day dreaming about what payloads they can put on a FH.

Do a great job on this one SpaceX and you're on your way.

The TESS data is going to be amazing too, can't wait.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Zed_Noir on 04/15/2018 02:01 PM
So that is a pretty big benefit of the switch to F9. Eliminating the kick stage must eliminate a fair number of failure modes, a lot of complexity and all the cost that goes with that.
Not having to scrap over every gram can’t hurt either.

That and a couple hundred million bucks cheaper.

I look forward to seeing what probes NASA produces when launches are $60 million instead of $200 or $300.

Surely there are scientists day dreaming about what payloads they can put on a FH.

Do a great job on this one SpaceX and you're on your way.

The TESS data is going to be amazing too, can't wait.

Maybe a few million bucks cheaper. The TESS was baseline on the Minotaur-C (re-branded Taurus) or the Athena IIc with a Star-37FM kick motor added.

AIUI TESS was originally designed for higher acceleration of a solid launcher, so the F9 upper stage will not be throttling back as much like for other payloads. Maybe SpaceX will over-performed with final orbital insertion burn and add many more years of service life.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 04/15/2018 02:40 PM
AIUI TESS was originally designed for higher acceleration of a solid launcher, so the F9 upper stage will not be throttling back as much like for other payloads. Maybe SpaceX will over-performed with final orbital insertion burn and add many more years of service life.

When your orbital maneuvers require interacting with the Moon's gravity it might not be great to be dropped off too far from your calculated destination.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: as58 on 04/15/2018 03:21 PM
As a fascinating segue: I am truly stunned that with the launch first contracted in 2014 for August 2017, even after vehicle failures in 2015 and 2016, TESS' launch date slipped right EIGHT MONTHS. That feels like an insane achievement, to me.

I'm not sure what you mean. TESS development schedule determined the launch date, so why should launch failures be expected to change it? Sure, if a failure happens shortly before the expected launch, then there would probably be a delay until the rocket gets cleared to launch again, but that's not the case here.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: OnWithTheShow on 04/15/2018 06:39 PM
Quote
For TESS, 30 second launch window is for COLA (Collision Avoidance).  Should a COLA be needed, they can shift the launch time by as much as 30 seconds to the right.

Collision with what? Uncharted space debris? How would it be detected and relayed to the launch team?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jcm on 04/15/2018 07:26 PM
On updates thread, statement was made that F9 does 40 minute coast before stage 2 SEIG-2, and that
TESS separates at launch plus 44 minutes. One of these is wrong... I suspect SEIG-2 at  launch + 40 min, not SECO-1 + 40 min?

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Joffan on 04/15/2018 08:12 PM
Great (double) question Chris, sounded like you hit something he really wanted to talk about :) and I got a Twitter question through as well on crowd-sourcing / citizen science - we could just dominate these briefings... :D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: tvg98 on 04/15/2018 11:13 PM
Quote
SpaceX will try to bring rocket upper stage back from orbital velocity using a giant party balloon

April's Fools was two weeks ago, so he's a bit late.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/15/2018 11:20 PM
Quote
SpaceX will try to bring rocket upper stage back from orbital velocity using a giant party balloon

April's Fools was two weeks ago, so he's a bit late.
I think he’s serious. Kinda. I mean, doubt it’s a party balloon, for instance.

We’ll see. Musk likes to troll the tech media.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Mader Levap on 04/15/2018 11:25 PM
I think there was some discussions about doing some shenanigans with second stage (not full recovery) in past. Maybe whatever mechanism they will use resembles giant party balloon if you squint hard enough.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: rockets4life97 on 04/15/2018 11:28 PM
A super light payload seems like the right opportunity to try it out. Lots of margin to try and maneuver the second stage in whatever way best helps with re-entry.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jimbowman on 04/15/2018 11:32 PM
helium balloon or something?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jcm on 04/15/2018 11:34 PM
I am reliably informed [senior spacex source] the second stage will indeed make a third burn and enter heliocentric orbit. No party balloon.

I mean, unless Elon has overruled the solar orbit plan at the last moment..
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 04/15/2018 11:34 PM
I think there was some discussions about doing some shenanigans with second stage (not full recovery) in past. Maybe whatever mechanism they will use resembles giant party balloon if you squint hard enough.

For "party balloon" maybe read ballute.  But regardless I don't think his tweets were in relation to the TESS launch as during the NASA Social briefing, Hans Koenigsman said that they were going to dispose of the upper stage on a hyperbolic escape trajectory that would send it away from Earth.

Key points from SpaceX's Hans Koenigsmann at a NASA Social event a few moments ago.
 -  Second stage will perform an initial burn, then coast for about 40 minutes, then do a second burn before deploying TESS. Finally, a third burn will dispose the second stage into a hyperbolic escape trajectory.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jcm on 04/15/2018 11:37 PM
I think there was some discussions about doing some shenanigans with second stage (not full recovery) in past. Maybe whatever mechanism they will use resembles giant party balloon if you squint hard enough.

For "party balloon" maybe read ballute.  But regardless I don't think his tweets were in relation to the TESS launch as during the NASA Social briefing, Hans Koenigsman said that they were going to dispose of the upper stage on a hyperbolic escape trajectory that would send it away from Earth.

Key points from SpaceX's Hans Koenigsmann at a NASA Social event a few moments ago.
 -  Second stage will perform an initial burn, then coast for about 40 minutes, then do a second burn before deploying TESS. Finally, a third burn will dispose the second stage into a hyperbolic escape trajectory.


Ah, that makes sense - not this flight, but one of the upcoming ones. That I would believe
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/15/2018 11:51 PM
I think there was some discussions about doing some shenanigans with second stage (not full recovery) in past. Maybe whatever mechanism they will use resembles giant party balloon if you squint hard enough.

For "party balloon" maybe read ballute.  But regardless I don't think his tweets were in relation to the TESS launch as during the NASA Social briefing, Hans Koenigsman said that they were going to dispose of the upper stage on a hyperbolic escape trajectory that would send it away from Earth.

Key points from SpaceX's Hans Koenigsmann at a NASA Social event a few moments ago.
 -  Second stage will perform an initial burn, then coast for about 40 minutes, then do a second burn before deploying TESS. Finally, a third burn will dispose the second stage into a hyperbolic escape trajectory.
Ah, good point! I will make a note of this on the update post. It’s almost certainly for some other mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Joffan on 04/16/2018 12:07 AM
I was impressed enough with disposing of the upper stage by escaping to solar orbit. Who else would do that? Has it in fact been done before for an earth-orbit payload?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: LastStarFighter on 04/16/2018 12:40 AM
I was impressed enough with disposing of the upper stage by escaping to solar orbit. Who else would do that? Has it in fact been done before for an earth-orbit payload?

Atlas V did it on the DMSP18 mission
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jcm on 04/16/2018 12:53 AM
I was impressed enough with disposing of the upper stage by escaping to solar orbit. Who else would do that? Has it in fact been done before for an earth-orbit payload?

Atlas V did it on the DMSP18 mission

In fact there have been a bunch of Atlas V LEO missions which have done it. AV-017, AV-012, AV-035, AV-044, AV-047
Very annoying for the NEO asteroid folks as I had to jump through hoops to get the trajectories, still don't have AV-012.
(we don't want to pick these  up and then confuse them for a potentially hazardous asteroid...)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 04/16/2018 01:43 AM
Mod question: what's the plan for TESS science updates once it is launched and in the target orbit?
Will the current update thread move to the Science section or will there be a new thread there?

Asking as I've just added the latest science yield paper ...

Edit: if there is a new thread, it is probably worth having a placeholder 1st post for links to things like the Archive Manual, MAST, etc.

--- Tony
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 04/16/2018 02:16 AM
Mod question: what's the plan for TESS science updates once it is launched and in the target orbit?
Will the current update thread move to the Science section or will there be a new thread there?

Asking as I've just added the latest science yield paper ...

Edit: if there is a new thread, it is probably worth having a placeholder 1st post for links to things like the Archive Manual, MAST, etc.

--- Tony

Definitely a thread in Space Science section.  I think I found the first post...  ;)
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31927.msg1053066#msg1053066
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 04/16/2018 02:24 AM
Gosh, I don't remember creating that :-)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Tea Party Space Czar on 04/16/2018 02:28 AM
We haven't done a video in awhile but we did do one for TESS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1chRVeST7l4

We want to do more of these.  Trying to widen the net.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: mme on 04/16/2018 04:55 AM
Just to confirm, the second stage will (eventually) escape the solar system?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Robotbeat on 04/16/2018 05:02 AM
Just to confirm, the second stage will (eventually) escape the solar system?
No, just escape Earth. It will become a planetoid, orbiting the Sun.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: rickl on 04/16/2018 05:52 AM
We want to do more of these.  Trying to widen the net.

Thoughts?


Very nice video!  The only flaw I spotted is that the Falcon 9 is a Block 4, not Block 5.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: penguin44 on 04/16/2018 05:52 AM
We haven't done a video in awhile but we did do one for TESS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1chRVeST7l4

We want to do more of these.  Trying to widen the net.

Thoughts?

I love it. Great vids and lots of easily understood information in a short time. Well done. (although your video says block 5 and its on a block 4)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Skylab on 04/16/2018 08:00 AM
Shouldn't the rocket and payload have reached the pad by now? I've not seen any photos of it sitting on the pad since payload integration.

Quote
Omar Baez, NASA LSP: "So the nominal roll out's at midnight, but we probably have three or four hours to be able to move things, to be able to adjust to make it."
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: GORDAP on 04/16/2018 01:18 PM
We haven't done a video in awhile but we did do one for TESS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1chRVeST7l4

We want to do more of these.  Trying to widen the net.

Thoughts?

Very Small Nit:  At the 39 second mark, should be "Massachusetts Institute of Technology", not "for".
 
Enjoyed the video!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Mike_1179 on 04/16/2018 01:50 PM
Shouldn't the rocket and payload have reached the pad by now? I've not seen any photos of it sitting on the pad since payload integration.


https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/985858273164365825

Quote
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Da543lkUwAULPBs.jpg)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ZachS09 on 04/16/2018 02:40 PM
Wow. It's quite hard for me to look at a Falcon 9 with no soot markings.

I mean, for the last several missions, there's been only reflights.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: marsbase on 04/16/2018 02:56 PM
After today's flight and the Bangabandhu in May, 90% will have soot.  8)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Jarnis on 04/16/2018 03:08 PM
After today's flight and the Bangabandhu in May, 90% will have soot.  8)

...and Bangabandhu won't be all white. This is the last all-white one unless they decide to repaint a Block 4 for re-flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Tea Party Space Czar on 04/16/2018 06:44 PM
Small video all about TESS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1chRVeST7l4

This is the best mission for me personally, since Kepler.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 04/17/2018 01:29 AM
Cross-post re: TESS
TESS's daily launch times.

Why the 45-day gap for InSight's launch (April 27 through June 9)?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: rockets4life97 on 04/17/2018 01:32 AM
Why the 45-day gap for InSight's launch (April 27 through June 9)?

It would only be a 45-day standout if InSight launches on the last possible day (or is scrubbed on the last possible day). Insight is another NASA launch that uses the same NASA team, so they can't work both launches at the same time. Insight has priority given its smaller launch window.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: cppetrie on 04/17/2018 03:17 AM
What is the reason for the scrub?
The answer is literally four posts above yours in #76. Plus that is the updates thread.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: spacenut on 04/17/2018 01:40 PM
So I am to assume there is nothing wrong with the rocket or the TESS satellite, just critical launch timing? 

You Tube said they were doing additional tests on the launch controls and guidance systems. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Jim on 04/17/2018 02:33 PM
Quote
For TESS, 30 second launch window is for COLA (Collision Avoidance).  Should a COLA be needed, they can shift the launch time by as much as 30 seconds to the right.

Collision with what? Uncharted space debris? How would it be detected and relayed to the launch team?

The final analysis is done around 24 hours before launch and they can adjust the T-0
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: cppetrie on 04/17/2018 03:37 PM
So I am to assume there is nothing wrong with the rocket or the TESS satellite, just critical launch timing? 

You Tube said they were doing additional tests on the launch controls and guidance systems.
There has been no indication so far of a problem with the rocket or satellite.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: OnWithTheShow on 04/17/2018 06:16 PM
Do you think these additional GNC tests are due to the unique orbit of TESS? As far as we know F9 has a perfect GNC record with a pretty predictable final orbit variance right?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: mulp on 04/17/2018 09:26 PM
Wonder what goes through Elon's mind when launches are delayed for "minor" issues that will cause mostly reputational costs compared to about a decade ago when a delay meant running out of cash to do anything at all (2008-09-28), costing the future of SpaceX.

But his experience being the decider for the first four SpaceX launches might have cured him of risk taking by pushing others to ignore even minor issues.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : NET April 16, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Herb Schaltegger on 04/17/2018 11:41 PM
Wonder what goes through Elon's mind when launches are delayed for "minor" issues that will cause mostly reputational costs compared to about a decade ago when a delay meant running out of cash to do anything at all (2008-09-28), costing the future of SpaceX.

Well, per his Twitter feed, he spent a lot of this afternoon driving a Model 3 and listening to hip-hop.

(In other words, he's not nearly as worried as he would've been 8 or 10 years ago).
Title: No TESS Landing Bingo?
Post by: TorenAltair on 04/18/2018 05:22 PM
No landing bingo this time? Avoiding bad omen as all last bingos failed?  :'(
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Wolfram66 on 04/18/2018 05:22 PM

Hawk is showing up on MarineTraffic.Com showing expected location of landing zone
Hawk, Go Go's ships and OCISLY hanging out waiting to play catch

thanks to MarineTraffic.com
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: shooter6947 on 04/18/2018 06:43 PM

Hawk is showing up on MarineTraffic.Com showing expected location of landing zone
Hawk, Go Go's ships and OCISLY hanging out waiting to play catch
Looks pretty close-in -- lofted trajectory?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: the_other_Doug on 04/18/2018 07:01 PM

Hawk is showing up on MarineTraffic.Com showing expected location of landing zone
Hawk, Go Go's ships and OCISLY hanging out waiting to play catch
Looks pretty close-in -- lofted trajectory?

I imagine it's a combination of a (comparatively) very light payload and a very high-apogee target orbit.  My take is that the overall staging conditions required fall *just* short of giving the booster enough energy for an RTLS.

If this was a significantly more massive payload, or the target orbit was at higher energy than it is, the droneship would likely be stationed farther downrange.

I don't believe it is necessarily an indication of a lofted trajectory.  Just that the stage will have *almost* enough energy left at MECO to get back to the launch site.  Almost.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: mn on 04/18/2018 07:40 PM
Our exact launch window today is 18:51:31 - 18:52:01 EDT (22:51:31 - 22:52:01 UTC)

Now we know that with the F9 they can't really hold the count, so once they start the LOX load, they are committed to a specific launch time.

But I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess they can hold for 30 seconds if needed up to some point even after LOX loading?

So does anyone have any specific info on this?

(As asked earlier the 30 second window was related to some kind of collision avoidance, but never got a clear explanation of what they are avoiding and at what point in time do they need to make this adjustment).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: shooter6947 on 04/18/2018 08:25 PM

Hawk is showing up on MarineTraffic.Com showing expected location of landing zone
Looks pretty close-in -- lofted trajectory?
I don't believe it is necessarily an indication of a lofted trajectory.  Just that the stage will have *almost* enough energy left at MECO to get back to the launch site.  Almost.
Okay, so this would imply that there will be a long boostback burn, just not *quite* as along as it would be for RTLS...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Kim Keller on 04/18/2018 08:36 PM
Why the 45-day gap for InSight's launch (April 27 through June 9)?

It would only be a 45-day standout if InSight launches on the last possible day (or is scrubbed on the last possible day). Insight is another NASA launch that uses the same NASA team, so they can't work both launches at the same time. Insight has priority given its smaller launch window.

Not really the same NASA team. Different rocket types, different people with the same skill sets assigned accordingly. Personally, I'm assigned to Atlas/InSight, Pegasus/ICON and Delta 4/PSP. I'm switching between missions on an almost hourly rate. This situation is just the fallout of other cross-trained folks' vacation scheduling & mission assignments.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: guyw on 04/18/2018 08:59 PM

Hawk is showing up on MarineTraffic.Com showing expected location of landing zone
Looks pretty close-in -- lofted trajectory?
I don't believe it is necessarily an indication of a lofted trajectory.  Just that the stage will have *almost* enough energy left at MECO to get back to the launch site.  Almost.
Okay, so this would imply that there will be a long boostback burn, just not *quite* as along as it would be for RTLS...
The press kit timeline mentions both an entry burn and a landing burn for the first stage, but says nothing about a boost back burn.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: JoerTex on 04/18/2018 09:18 PM

Hawk is showing up on MarineTraffic.Com showing expected location of landing zone
Looks pretty close-in -- lofted trajectory?
I don't believe it is necessarily an indication of a lofted trajectory.  Just that the stage will have *almost* enough energy left at MECO to get back to the launch site.  Almost.
Okay, so this would imply that there will be a long boostback burn, just not *quite* as along as it would be for RTLS...
The press kit timeline mentions both an entry burn and a landing burn for the first stage, but says nothing about a boost back burn.

It's landing on the drone ship which is downrange.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Lar on 04/18/2018 09:34 PM
It's landing on the drone ship which is downrange.
But (if I understand correctly).... not very FAR downrange,  so either highly lofted or a partial boostback.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: flyright on 04/18/2018 09:41 PM
I scored a last second ticket for the LC-39 Observation Gantry. 🙂
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: the_other_Doug on 04/18/2018 10:10 PM
It's landing on the drone ship which is downrange.
But (if I understand correctly).... not very FAR downrange,  so either highly lofted or a partial boostback.

Exactly.  I can't imagine a trajectory that would work for the conditions you'll need at MECO and one that, with no boostback, only goes that little ways beyond the beach.  It's what, well less than 100 km out, right?  A full downrange landing with no boostback on a GTO mission is like 5 to 10 times farther, right?  And a GTO insertion would usually have a much higher MECO velocity than TESS ought to have, I would think.

MECO would happen at, like 300+ km if there was no boostback, I would think, without enough downrange velocity for stage 2 to hit its targets... :(

Of course, I'm not a trajectory analyst.  I'm just looking at it from the point of view of comparative reasonableness.  Only going as far offshore as OCISLY is stationed without a boostback just seems, I dunno -- not reasonable.  From a lot of perspectives.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: the_other_Doug on 04/18/2018 10:25 PM
I would really like to know how the YouTube app on most devices manages its search results.

On a quite standard YouTube app, I just entered the search phrase SpaceX TESS launch.  It showed something like 30 search results -- everything from rebroadcasts of SpaceX's current feed by other websites, to recordings of the 16th's scrub, to Falcon Heavy and BFR simulations -- before it listed SpaceX's own streaming channel for today's launch.

Which was listed as "SpaceX TESS launch".  The *exact* text of my search phrase.

You would think high-profile online content management systems like YouTube would understand that we are smart enough to realize that they're giving results that badly fit the search criteria precedence over results which fit them well.  That can only mean that, 1) their search function sucks rocks, or 2) they are giving some types of providers precedence, even when their result doesn't really fit.  For monetary or other considerations.

You'd be surprised how many people believe it's option number 1... sigh...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: tvg98 on 04/18/2018 10:41 PM
Looks like boostback is confirmed.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Halidon on 04/18/2018 10:56 PM
May be talking out of a dark place, but did fairing sep look a little more hinkey than in the past to anyone else?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: matthewkantar on 04/18/2018 10:58 PM
May be talking out of a dark place, but did fairing sep look a little more hinkey than in the past to anyone else?

Looked five by five to me.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Halidon on 04/18/2018 11:01 PM
May be talking out of a dark place, but did fairing sep look a little more hinkey than in the past to anyone else?

Looked five by five to me.
Good to hear, may just have been my feed.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: nacnud on 04/18/2018 11:02 PM
Is that the first time that we've seen the drone ship landing from the booster live with no loss of signal?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: MLang on 04/18/2018 11:04 PM
Is that the first time that we've seen the drone ship landing from the booster live with no loss of signal?

I think so, I can't recount a time where we have seen this before.

The feed from the barge itself however... still per usual
Title: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Star One on 04/18/2018 11:06 PM
I would really like to know how the YouTube app on most devices manages its search results.

On a quite standard YouTube app, I just entered the search phrase SpaceX TESS launch.  It showed something like 30 search results -- everything from rebroadcasts of SpaceX's current feed by other websites, to recordings of the 16th's scrub, to Falcon Heavy and BFR simulations -- before it listed SpaceX's own streaming channel for today's launch.

Which was listed as "SpaceX TESS launch".  The *exact* text of my search phrase.

You would think high-profile online content management systems like YouTube would understand that we are smart enough to realize that they're giving results that badly fit the search criteria precedence over results which fit them well.  That can only mean that, 1) their search function sucks rocks, or 2) they are giving some types of providers precedence, even when their result doesn't really fit.  For monetary or other considerations.

You'd be surprised how many people believe it's option number 1... sigh...

Do you think Google are just there to give away content for free. It’s a trade as with so many of these free online services more often you’re trading your data in exchange for the service. I for one don’t begrudge them doing this as they have a business to run, nor the people on there who have to monetise their content as that’s their career. This shouldn’t be an issue provided both parties are aware of this.

Anyway the easy answer is just subscribe to the right channels and they will always jump up your home feed when needed.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: yokem55 on 04/18/2018 11:12 PM
Maybe it was the lighting, but it seemed like a lot of debris was floating around post SECO and coming off the booster on the way down.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: atsf90east on 04/18/2018 11:17 PM
I scored a last second ticket for the LC-39 Observation Gantry.

That's the best and closest place to see a LC-40 launch.  I like to get up as high as I can in one of the stairwells and shoot with a telephoto lens.  The image below is from the Thaicom-8 launch.
.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ZachS09 on 04/18/2018 11:22 PM
Instead of filming a launch montage for today's mission, I decided to take zoomed-in snapshots of the early ascent from my typical position at Embry-Riddle Daytona Beach.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Marsin2010 on 04/18/2018 11:29 PM
My Launch Central video feed was very fuzzy.  The countdown timer and the progress bar text were quite illegible.  I reset the feed several times.  It would briefly clear up and then go fuzzy again.  Whereas my simultaneous NASA TV feed was extremely crisp.  I have watched well over 40 Falcon 9 launches and have never had this happen before.  Anyone else?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Kabloona on 04/18/2018 11:30 PM
Is that the first time that we've seen the drone ship landing from the booster live with no loss of signal?

Maybe because of relative nearness of the booster to shore at landing, so no over-the-horizon LOS.
Title: Re: No TESS Landing Bingo?
Post by: Comga on 04/18/2018 11:47 PM
No landing bingo this time? Avoiding bad omen as all last bingos failed?  :'(

It would hardly be a contest anymore.

So smooth!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Joffan on 04/18/2018 11:51 PM
I'm guessing that SpaceX are feeding their graphics through to NASA even though the SpaceX webcast finished
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: marsbase on 04/18/2018 11:54 PM
My Launch Central video feed was very fuzzy.  The countdown timer and the progress bar text were quite illegible.  I reset the feed several times.  It would briefly clear up and then go fuzzy again.  Whereas my simultaneous NASA TV feed was extremely crisp.  I have watched well over 40 Falcon 9 launches and have never had this happen before.  Anyone else?

I had the same experience as you including the fact that the countdown timer would clear up briefly each time I reloaded the site and then get fuzzy again.  I have not seen this before.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Thorny on 04/19/2018 12:00 AM
Is that the first time that we've seen the drone ship landing from the booster live with no loss of signal?


I think there was one in 2016 that we saw all the way down to OCISLY.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: lonestriker on 04/19/2018 12:08 AM
Was it my imagination or was that a longer-than-usual landing burn? I assume they wanted as gentle landing as possible for NASA reuse.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 04/19/2018 12:11 AM
Being only used to GTO launches where the second burn of the upper stage is timed to take place when crossing the equator, the fact that the second burn was so late on this mission was really messing with my head. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: mn on 04/19/2018 12:22 AM
My Launch Central video feed was very fuzzy.  The countdown timer and the progress bar text were quite illegible.  I reset the feed several times.  It would briefly clear up and then go fuzzy again.  Whereas my simultaneous NASA TV feed was extremely crisp.  I have watched well over 40 Falcon 9 launches and have never had this happen before.  Anyone else?

I had the same experience as you including the fact that the countdown timer would clear up briefly each time I reloaded the site and then get fuzzy again.  I have not seen this before.

On YouTube it defaults to Auto for quality and for the first time today it was giving me low quality, I switched from Auto to HD and that fixed it for me.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: cppetrie on 04/19/2018 01:09 AM
My Launch Central video feed was very fuzzy.  The countdown timer and the progress bar text were quite illegible.  I reset the feed several times.  It would briefly clear up and then go fuzzy again.  Whereas my simultaneous NASA TV feed was extremely crisp.  I have watched well over 40 Falcon 9 launches and have never had this happen before.  Anyone else?

I had the same experience as you including the fact that the countdown timer would clear up briefly each time I reloaded the site and then get fuzzy again.  I have not seen this before.

On YouTube it defaults to Auto for quality and for the first time today it was giving me low quality, I switched from Auto to HD and that fixed it for me.
Same for me. Auto was junk but manually picking HD worked fine.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Lars-J on 04/19/2018 01:15 AM
My Launch Central video feed was very fuzzy.  The countdown timer and the progress bar text were quite illegible.  I reset the feed several times.  It would briefly clear up and then go fuzzy again.  Whereas my simultaneous NASA TV feed was extremely crisp.  I have watched well over 40 Falcon 9 launches and have never had this happen before.  Anyone else?

I had the same experience as you including the fact that the countdown timer would clear up briefly each time I reloaded the site and then get fuzzy again.  I have not seen this before.

On YouTube it defaults to Auto for quality and for the first time today it was giving me low quality, I switched from Auto to HD and that fixed it for me.

Same here. It might have been a YouTube or SpaceX stream issue. (or a combination thereof)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 04/19/2018 01:19 AM
Congratulations to SpaceX and NASA for the successful launch!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Rocket Science on 04/19/2018 01:21 AM
It was fun to see applause from the TESS control room when the first stage landed on OCISLY... :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Lars-J on 04/19/2018 01:24 AM
Yep, awesome launch and I'm very excited to see TESS generate data.  8)

Congratulations to NASA and SpaceX!  :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: groundbound on 04/19/2018 01:31 AM
Yay!

I just realized that if launches continue at this pace, we are less than a year away from when Falcon 9 has more launches than Atlas 5.

And please do not take this as a knock on A5. It is a fantastic rocket that has been our national workhorse for the better part of 2 decades, which is why I made the comparison.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 04/19/2018 01:32 AM
It was fun to see applause from the TESS control room when the first stage landed on OCISLY... :)

That was at the same time as the second stage shut down (SECO-1), so it's not perfectly clear what they were seeing on their screens and applauding to.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: neoforce on 04/19/2018 01:32 AM
Is there a published timeline of the burns planned for TESS as it moves toward its final orbit?  What’s the best forum here at NSF to follow TESS’ progress as it is now more of a NASA mission than a SpaceX mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: hplan on 04/19/2018 01:35 AM
I would really like to know how the YouTube app on most devices manages its search results.

On a quite standard YouTube app, I just entered the search phrase SpaceX TESS launch.  It showed something like 30 search results -- everything from rebroadcasts of SpaceX's current feed by other websites, to recordings of the 16th's scrub, to Falcon Heavy and BFR simulations -- before it listed SpaceX's own streaming channel for today's launch.

Which was listed as "SpaceX TESS launch".  The *exact* text of my search phrase.

You would think high-profile online content management systems like YouTube would understand that we are smart enough to realize that they're giving results that badly fit the search criteria precedence over results which fit them well.  That can only mean that, 1) their search function sucks rocks, or 2) they are giving some types of providers precedence, even when their result doesn't really fit.  For monetary or other considerations.

You'd be surprised how many people believe it's option number 1... sigh...

Do you think Google are just there to give away content for free. It’s a trade as with so many of these free online services more often you’re trading your data in exchange for the service. I for one don’t begrudge them doing this as they have a business to run, nor the people on there who have to monetise their content as that’s their career. This shouldn’t be an issue provided both parties are aware of this.

Anyway the easy answer is just subscribe to the right channels and they will always jump up your home feed when needed.

Nowadays search results are driven by machine learning and there are literally hundreds of signals factoring into the search result ranking, of which "exact title match" and "URL match" are only two. Others range from popularity and level of engagement of the result page to whether the HTML is valid and the site is mobile friendly. The interesting thing about these ML algorithms is that it's pretty much impossible for humans to understand why results are ranked the way they are other than that it maximizes click-through rate or whatever metric Google is optimizing.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 04/19/2018 02:05 AM
Is there a published timeline of the burns planned for TESS as it moves toward its final orbit?  What’s the best forum here at NSF to follow TESS’ progress as it is now more of a NASA mission than a SpaceX mission.

The attached document is a bit out of date as it discussed the burn dates based on a launch in December 2017 or January 2018, but the general plan won't be too different.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 04/19/2018 02:25 AM
Yay!

I just realized that if launches continue at this pace, we are less than a year away from when Falcon 9 has more launches than Atlas 5.

Maybe just under a year from when Falcon 9 has more launches than Atlas V has today.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Oersted on 04/19/2018 02:33 AM
This may be Day One of a mission that will give us a first look at an exoplanet that harbours life.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: wannamoonbase on 04/19/2018 03:29 AM
Yay!

I just realized that if launches continue at this pace, we are less than a year away from when Falcon 9 has more launches than Atlas 5.

Maybe just under a year from when Falcon 9 has more launches than Atlas V has today.

Then 2 months later more than the total Atlas V launches.

SpaceX had years of lofty goals and big promises, but they are starting to deliver on those.  Very exciting.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: rickl on 04/19/2018 05:56 AM
Congratulations to NASA and SpaceX!  Do we know how well they met the target orbit?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: rickl on 04/19/2018 06:17 AM
This may be Day One of a mission that will give us a first look at an exoplanet that harbours life.

Someday, if and when we develop the technology for interstellar travel, our first destinations may be planets that are discovered by TESS.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Jakusb on 04/19/2018 07:22 AM
Congrats to SpaceX and NASA!
What an amazing launch!
Unbelievable how easy they make it seem.
Todo: Fix that ASDS video feed thingy.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: AncientU on 04/19/2018 12:36 PM
Yay!

I just realized that if launches continue at this pace, we are less than a year away from when Falcon 9 has more launches than Atlas 5.

And please do not take this as a knock on A5. It is a fantastic rocket that has been our national workhorse for the better part of 2 decades, which is why I made the comparison.

Both Atlas V and Ariane 5 will be passed in 1Q 2019 if manifests are flown as posted.  Both will retire with near-perfect records a couple years later, done in by their high costs.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: LouScheffer on 04/19/2018 12:39 PM
This may be Day One of a mission that will give us a first look at an exoplanet that harbours life.

Someday, if and when we develop the technology for interstellar travel, our first destinations may be planets that are discovered by TESS.

I think this is statistically unlikely.  TESS sees only transiting planets, which are a small percentage (around 1% of Earth-like orbits).  So whatever TESS finds, there is likely an equally good candidate(s) that are much closer, but do not transit.   These can be found by other means that are being worked on now, so these closer targets will be known long before there are starships.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: speedevil on 04/19/2018 12:47 PM
I think this is statistically unlikely.  TESS sees only transiting planets, which are a small percentage (around 1% of Earth-like orbits).  So whatever TESS finds, there is likely an equally good candidate(s) that are much closer, but do not transit.   These can be found by other means that are being worked on now, so these closer targets will be known long before there are starships.

Specifically, GAIA.
Close by stars can have planets round them detected by the small (3000km) variations in their position over the orbit of earth-sized planets.
They 'wobble'.
Also, at some point soon, direct observation of nearby star systems with star-shades in space may be done, which helps lots in being able to detect smaller planets.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: jebbo on 04/19/2018 12:53 PM
I think this is statistically unlikely.  TESS sees only transiting planets, which are a small percentage (around 1% of Earth-like orbits).  So whatever TESS finds, there is likely an equally good candidate(s) that are much closer, but do not transit.   These can be found by other means that are being worked on now, so these closer targets will be known long before there are starships.

Specifically, GAIA.
Close by stars can have planets round them detected by the small (3000km) variations in their position over the orbit of earth-sized planets.
They 'wobble'.
Also, at some point soon, direct observation of nearby star systems with star-shades in space may be done, which helps lots in being able to detect smaller planets.

Gaia astrometry will not detect Earth-size planets, but will find plenty of Jupiter analogues.
Earth-sized planets will be found using RV ... using instruments like ESPRESSO at the VLT.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: AncientU on 04/19/2018 04:49 PM
I think this is statistically unlikely.  TESS sees only transiting planets, which are a small percentage (around 1% of Earth-like orbits).  So whatever TESS finds, there is likely an equally good candidate(s) that are much closer, but do not transit.   These can be found by other means that are being worked on now, so these closer targets will be known long before there are starships.

Specifically, GAIA.
Close by stars can have planets round them detected by the small (3000km) variations in their position over the orbit of earth-sized planets.
They 'wobble'.
Also, at some point soon, direct observation of nearby star systems with star-shades in space may be done, which helps lots in being able to detect smaller planets.

Star shade is very promising technology, but the telescope that is needed to do random or blind searches for earth-mass planets is not on the horizon.  JWST will have limited time allocated to spectroscopic searches (a full week at a time?) of very carefully vetted Earth analogues in the habitable zone or their respective stars.  After JWST, it is anyone's guess when the next mega-observatory will be built/launched.

A dedicated, large aperture, cold telescope (4m off-axis parabola, for instance, like HabEX) with one or more dedicated star shades is needed.  WFIRST supposedly will 'demo' the technology, but it is a warm telescope; much of the interesting spectra for detecting/characterizing 'life' is at longer wavelengths than their 2 micron limit.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Semmel on 04/19/2018 07:08 PM
I think this is statistically unlikely.  TESS sees only transiting planets, which are a small percentage (around 1% of Earth-like orbits).  So whatever TESS finds, there is likely an equally good candidate(s) that are much closer, but do not transit.   These can be found by other means that are being worked on now, so these closer targets will be known long before there are starships.

Specifically, GAIA.
Close by stars can have planets round them detected by the small (3000km) variations in their position over the orbit of earth-sized planets.
They 'wobble'.
Also, at some point soon, direct observation of nearby star systems with star-shades in space may be done, which helps lots in being able to detect smaller planets.

Star shade is very promising technology, but the telescope that is needed to do random or blind searches for earth-mass planets is not on the horizon.  JWST will have limited time allocated to spectroscopic searches (a full week at a time?) of very carefully vetted Earth analogues in the habitable zone or their respective stars.  After JWST, it is anyone's guess when the next mega-observatory will be built/launched.

A dedicated, large aperture, cold telescope (4m off-axis parabola, for instance, like HabEX) with one or more dedicated star shades is needed.  WFIRST supposedly will 'demo' the technology, but it is a warm telescope; much of the interesting spectra for detecting/characterizing 'life' is at longer wavelengths than their 2 micron limit.

Ill be at the SPIE for astronomical instrumentation in Texas this year. There usually are some sessions on new proposals. (I saw the sunshade proposal there 4 years ago in Montreal). Will keep an eye open for things and report what I see.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Journeyman on 04/19/2018 11:13 PM
I have not read anywhere what happened to the fairing recovery? They did attempt this on this flight right?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: e of pi on 04/19/2018 11:23 PM
I have not read anywhere what happened to the fairing recovery? They did attempt this on this flight right?
No, at this time their only fairing recovery boat is on the west coast.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Journeyman on 04/19/2018 11:28 PM
I have not read anywhere what happened to the fairing recovery? They did attempt this on this flight right?
No, at this time their only fairing recovery boat is on the west coast.

Yes I'm aware that the recovery boat is only available for West coast launches. But I remember reading they where going to fly the fairing recovery tech on this one to test it, not recovering it but let it splash softly into the ocean.

Or did I confuse this with another flight?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: pb2000 on 04/19/2018 11:31 PM
I think Hans said that the fairing (half?) had the recovery hardware, but without Mr Steven, the best they could hope for was another soft splashdown.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Journeyman on 04/19/2018 11:38 PM
Yeah that was what I remember hearing. Surprised there has been no official updates on that. But maybe they don't bother reporting details when they can't recover it and show it for cameras.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: launchwatcher on 04/20/2018 12:28 AM
You would think high-profile online content management systems like YouTube would understand that we are smart enough to realize that they're giving results that badly fit the search criteria precedence over results which fit them well.  That can only mean that, 1) their search function sucks rocks, or 2) they are giving some types of providers precedence, even when their result doesn't really fit.  For monetary or other considerations.
There's a not-well-known way to improve the recommendations you get from YouTube.

There's a pop-up menu attached to (some) recommended videos.   The three-dot menu button (some folks call it a "kebab menu" to contrast with the three-line "hamburger menu" icon) shows a menu which includes a "not interested" button.   

If you select "not interested", it gives you an option of "Tell us why".   If you select that, you get a couple options to choose from.
(already watched it, don't like the video, don't like the channel).

This does not immediately blacklist a channel but since discovering this feature I've been making a habit of selecting "not interested" on all the clickbait/flat earther/tinfoil hat crap that turns up and the quality of recommendations I'm getting has gone way up.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: billh on 04/20/2018 02:52 AM
I noticed this wire in John Kraus's launch photo. I don't recall seeing it before. Any ideas what this is?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: goretexguy on 04/20/2018 03:22 AM
You would think high-profile online content management systems like YouTube would understand that we are smart enough to realize that they're giving results that badly fit the search criteria precedence over results which fit them well.  That can only mean that, 1) their search function sucks rocks, or 2) they are giving some types of providers precedence, even when their result doesn't really fit.  For monetary or other considerations.
There's a not-well-known way to improve the recommendations you get from YouTube.
I led a team which built a search engine for an online e-commerce concern. We created a feature which intentionally introduced 'churn' into the results, to display newer or less-popular items so they had a chance to receive clicks and therefore actual ranking data. YouTube is in the business of serving as much content as possible; therefore they need to promote material which is new or similar to what is requested in order to remain a relevant site.
What you're looking for is a 'SpaceX Channel', a feature YouTube also supports. (https://www.youtube.com/user/spacexchannel)

Now, back to the topic of the thread, please.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ugordan on 04/20/2018 06:26 AM
I noticed this wire in John Kraus's launch photo. I don't recall seeing it before. Any ideas what this is?

99% that it's a string attached to a tyvek cover on one of the landing leg air vents. They're tied down to the hold downs somewhere and are supposed to pull the covers off at liftoff, but sometimes they break at the wrong end apparently.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Spudley on 04/20/2018 10:23 AM
TESS is going to have a very interesting life of its own once it starts producing data.

This thread is in the SpaceX section and is really more about the launch and the rocket than about TESS, so will there be new separate threads for TESS itself and its work elsewhere on the site at some point?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 04/20/2018 10:26 AM
There is a separate TESS thread for spacecraft flight operations and science results.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31927.0
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: toruonu on 04/20/2018 10:33 AM
Actual TESS orbit before first apogee burn according to Space-track.

NORAD   SATNAME   INTLDES      PERIOD      INCL   APOGEE   PERIGEE
43435   TESS         2018-038A   10244.32   29.54   299450   296

Did they overperform? I remember apogee target of 270k km.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Joffan on 04/20/2018 01:33 PM
That's a 7-day orbital period, and they have a couple of orbits before the moon flyby to adjust the timing perfectly. It's good.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ulm_atms on 04/20/2018 01:42 PM
Actual TESS orbit before first apogee burn according to Space-track.

NORAD   SATNAME   INTLDES      PERIOD      INCL   APOGEE   PERIGEE
43435   TESS         2018-038A   10244.32   29.54   299450   296

Did they overperform? I remember apogee target of 270k km.

Yes...but the first few orbits had burns to get the apogee to 400km before the Lunar flyby.  If anything, I would think this should save TESS some fuel.

Link to explain how it gets to its orbit: https://tess.mit.edu/science/

EDIT:  Is it possible the apogee is different due to the initial scrub?  I would think trying to time a lunar flyby would have changes each day in order to intercept it correctly.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: AncientU on 04/20/2018 03:17 PM
Actual TESS orbit before first apogee burn according to Space-track.

NORAD   SATNAME   INTLDES      PERIOD      INCL   APOGEE   PERIGEE
43435   TESS         2018-038A   10244.32   29.54   299450   296

Did they overperform? I remember apogee target of 270k km.

Yes...but the first few orbits had burns to get the apogee to 400km before the Lunar flyby.  If anything, I would think this should save TESS some fuel.

Link to explain how it gets to its orbit: https://tess.mit.edu/science/

EDIT:  Is it possible the apogee is different due to the initial scrub?  I would think trying to time a lunar flyby would have changes each day in order to intercept it correctly.

Didn't F9 have sufficient capability to deliver TESS directly to its final orbit, or nearly so, and saved the maneuvering? 
(Could have sent it to Mars... listed at 4,020kg to Mars on web page.)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Elthiryel on 04/20/2018 03:35 PM
If you mean getting to final science orbit without a lunar flyby, Falcon 9 could not do it. It would require firing at the apogee and F9 second stage doesn't have the capability to coast for such a long time (at least tens of hours if I'm not wrong) and start the engine.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: envy887 on 04/20/2018 05:17 PM
If you mean getting to final science orbit without a lunar flyby, Falcon 9 could not do it. It would require firing at the apogee and F9 second stage doesn't have the capability to coast for such a long time (at least tens of hours if I'm not wrong) and start the engine.

TESS's science orbit is not circular so the final burn would not be at the final apogee. But it is much higher (both apogee and perigee) than GEO, so F9 probably could not put it there directly.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: chipguy on 04/20/2018 06:19 PM
Actual TESS orbit before first apogee burn according to Space-track.

NORAD   SATNAME   INTLDES      PERIOD      INCL   APOGEE   PERIGEE
43435   TESS         2018-038A   10244.32   29.54   299450   296

Did they overperform? I remember apogee target of 270k km.

Keep in mind that the apogee of such an eccentric orbit is very sensitive to final velocity
error of a low height burn. That also means very little delta V by TESS to change it.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 04/20/2018 09:51 PM
Didn't F9 have sufficient capability to deliver TESS directly to its final orbit, or nearly so, and saved the maneuvering? 

They didn't want to leave the upper stage on the same trajectory as TESS (a potential collision hazard), so they left some propellent in the Falcon-9 to push the U/S into a heliocentric disposal orbit.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: TorenAltair on 04/20/2018 10:03 PM
It seems they gave TESS a little more as reserve. Inclination is listed as 29.54 degrees, planned were 28.5 though it might be possible that TESS already tested its own engine.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 04/21/2018 01:16 AM
Actual TESS orbit before first apogee burn according to Space-track.

NORAD   SATNAME   INTLDES      PERIOD      INCL   APOGEE   PERIGEE
43435   TESS         2018-038A   10244.32   29.54   299450   296

Did they overperform? I remember apogee target of 270k km.

Keep in mind that the apogee of such an eccentric orbit is very sensitive to final velocity
error of a low height burn. That also means very little delta V by TESS to change it.

The actual "concern," if one could call it that, isn't about the delta-V requirements for TESS--which are very small--but about the phasing with the moon to allow both the S/C and the moon to be in the proper positions for the flyby.  That is exactly why TESS's mission planners wanted to have a few orbits before going for the flyby.  It allows them time to deal with any dispersions in orbit injection and gives them a series of opportunities for trajectory/phasing correction. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: rickl on 04/21/2018 01:18 AM
If you mean getting to final science orbit without a lunar flyby, Falcon 9 could not do it. It would require firing at the apogee and F9 second stage doesn't have the capability to coast for such a long time (at least tens of hours if I'm not wrong) and start the engine.

Does Falcon 9 have the capability of sending TESS directly to the lunar flyby without the need for phasing orbits?  I don't know how long the third "disposal" burn was.

Although I would think that using TESS' small onboard engine allows for more precise control of the approach than the F9 MVAC.


Edit:  I see that deruch addressed my second point already.   :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: deruch on 04/21/2018 01:23 AM
It seems they gave TESS a little more as reserve. Inclination is listed as 29.54 degrees, planned were 28.5 though it might be possible that TESS already tested its own engine.

I don't think it was planned for 28.5 in the end.  In the pre-launch mission briefing, Hans Koenigsman said this about the launch azimuth, "The first burn is pretty much like a geo transfer burn. That's how it's going to look from here. Due east, more or less. Not quite."  It's the "not quite" that indicates that they were targeting an inclination close to 28.5 but actually slightly off.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: TorenAltair on 04/21/2018 01:48 PM
@deruch.  Yes, sorry about my wording. SpaceX planned this for sure, what I meant was that TESS was planned for a 28,5 degrees inclination according to their mission profile. So it might be that they adjusted the profile for the larger F9 to get a few months/weeks of extra observation time.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: rickl on 04/21/2018 11:20 PM
I saw a NASA tweet saying that the first TESS orbital burn should occur today.
https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/987687144847179777 (https://twitter.com/NASA_TESS/status/987687144847179777)


But that was early this morning and I haven't seen any updates.  From the announced orbit, it should take about 3.5 days to reach apogee, which would place it sometime early Sunday morning.  Could this tweet have used the planned 6-day orbit?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: rickl on 04/22/2018 01:22 PM
That tweet is now 24 hours old with no updates.  Does anybody know when apogee is expected?  Based on the announced orbit, I guesstimate that it should have occurred about an hour ago, around 8:13 am EDT or 1213 UT.

[/size]Actual TESS orbit before first apogee burn according to Space-track.
NORAD   SATNAME   INTLDES      PERIOD      INCL   APOGEE   PERIGEE
43435   TESS         2018-038A   10244.32   29.54   299450   296
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: TorenAltair on 04/22/2018 10:02 PM
Quote
The @NASA_TESS first apogee maneuver (A1M) was successfully completed yesterday. This burn was a 50 second checkout burn to characterize the performance of the #TESS thrusters.

Quote
[email protected]_TESS current speed (at about 22 Apr 2018 15:46 UTC / 11:46 AM EST) was approximately 0.373 km/s. It will be increasing until #TESS reaches perigee at about 25 Apr 2018 05:42 UTC / 1:42 PM at which point it will be approximately 9.51 km/s.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Brian45 on 04/23/2018 12:47 PM
Has there been any mention of the Roomba being used on this landing?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Tomness on 04/23/2018 12:55 PM
Has there been any mention of the Roomba being used on this landing?

Check out the Drone Ship thread.
Mention of it by SpaceX yet.  No
Sightings of it being used on this mission. Yes.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39766.2460
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: vanoord on 04/23/2018 03:33 PM
Er...

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42511.440

OctaGrabber was indeed allowed out to play, but it looks as if only three of the four arms were connected.

There were also some delays in getting going after the core landed, but no indication of whether this was OctaGrabber-related or not.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Brian45 on 04/23/2018 05:08 PM
Thanks, I tried a search for Roomba but didn't come up with anything recent. I should have used "OctaGrabber"

Glad to see another part of the puzzle coming together!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: gongora on 05/02/2018 02:43 AM
From the 2018 GAO assessment of NASA projects

Quote
The project did not meet its expected March 2018 launch date due to certification delays for its launch vehicle, the SpaceX Falcon 9 upgrade known as Block 4. Certification is necessary because it will be the first time that a NASA instrument will launch on the Block 4 version of the vehicle. The TESS project expected that NASA’s Launch Services Program would certify the Block 4 in September 2017, 7 months before TESS is scheduled to launch. However, NASA needed additional time to investigate the Falcon 9 second stage pressure vessel, which was involved in an anomaly that caused an explosion in September 2016. SpaceX also required extra time to meet NASA’s Launch Services Program requirements.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: CorvusCorax on 05/02/2018 04:04 AM
From the 2018 GAO assessment of NASA projects

Quote
The project did not meet its expected March 2018 launch
date due to certification delays for its launch vehicle, the
SpaceX Falcon 9 upgrade known as Block 4. Certification
is necessary because it will be the first time that a NASA
instrument will launch on the Block 4 version of the vehicle.
The TESS project expected that NASA’s Launch Services
Program would certify the Block 4 in September 2017, 7
months before TESS is scheduled to launch. However,
NASA needed additional time to investigate the Falcon 9
second stage pressure vessel, which was involved in an
anomaly that caused an explosion in September 2016.
SpaceX also required extra time to meet NASA’s Launch
Services Program requirements.

Correct me if I'm wrong, TESS booster was the last Block 4 SpaceX ever built, right?

Just like Jason3 launched on the last 1.1 ever launched.

Duh, this certification stuff really seriously lags behind SpaceX innovation speed.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: eeergo on 05/02/2018 04:23 AM
From the 2018 GAO assessment of NASA projects

Quote
The project did not meet its expected March 2018 launch
date due to certification delays for its launch vehicle, the
SpaceX Falcon 9 upgrade known as Block 4. Certification
is necessary because it will be the first time that a NASA
instrument will launch on the Block 4 version of the vehicle.
The TESS project expected that NASA’s Launch Services
Program would certify the Block 4 in September 2017, 7
months before TESS is scheduled to launch. However,
NASA needed additional time to investigate the Falcon 9
second stage pressure vessel, which was involved in an
anomaly that caused an explosion in September 2016.
SpaceX also required extra time to meet NASA’s Launch
Services Program requirements.

Correct me if I'm wrong, TESS booster was the last Block 4 SpaceX ever built, right?

Just like Jason3 launched on the last 1.1 ever launched.

Duh, this certification stuff really seriously lags behind SpaceX innovation speed.

It was delayed by *a month*.

How much does SpaceX routinely delay its manifest (for completely valid reasons, I'm sure)? Or is it just that some faction in SpaceX "seriously lags behind" another SpaceX faction's "innovation speed"?

Let's not go all fanboi into a SpaceX vs NASA discussion again. The reason reviews weren't done faster isn't stated, and I would guess having mission assurance oversight in order to prevent mishaps is something desirable, not the contrary. It doesn't matter if it was the last Block 4, the review on S2 COPVs (which caused two LOMs so far) wasn't mature on time.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: CorvusCorax on 05/02/2018 04:35 AM

It was delayed by *a month*.

How much does SpaceX routinely delay its manifest (for completely valid reasons, I'm sure)? Or is it just that some faction in SpaceX "seriously lags behind" another SpaceX faction's "innovation speed"?

Let's not go all fanboi into a SpaceX vs NASA discussion again. The reason reviews weren't done faster isn't stated, and I would guess having mission assurance oversight in order to prevent mishaps is something desirable, not the contrary. It doesn't matter if it was the last Block 4, the review on S2 COPVs (which caused two LOMs so far) wasn't mature on time.

My point wasn't so much the delay, but that more or less for a second time in a row, certification wasn't complete until after the vehicle in question was already out of production in favor of a not yet certifued successor.

This has nothing to do with NASA vs. SpaceX in particular, its rather a common symptom seen in fields with fast innovation cycles.

In my last job, we build wireless sensors, which we needed to put through a certification process due to radio emissions. We had it more than once that by the time we finally had a device iteration certified, one of the chips used in the design was already marked "obsolete" by the manufacturer, Especially in the field of telco microelectronics, some components meanwhile have a generation life of under 1 year. From the time a chip becones available for the general public for prototyping.until end of production is sometimes less than 6 months.

Thats might be OK for smartphone manufacturers who are used to it, but not enough to complete cert tests and paperwork for a small startup, and ramp up production.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: eeergo on 05/02/2018 05:49 AM
My point wasn't so much the delay, but that more or less for a second time in a row, certification wasn't complete until after the vehicle in question was already out of production in favor of a not yet certifued successor.

This has nothing to do with NASA vs. SpaceX in particular, its rather a common symptom seen in fields with fast innovation cycles.

In my last job, we build wireless sensors, which we needed to put through a certification process due to radio emissions. We had it more than once that by the time we finally had a device iteration certified, one of the chips used in the design was already marked "obsolete" by the manufacturer, Especially in the field of telco microelectronics, some components meanwhile have a generation life of under 1 year. From the time a chip becones available for the general public for prototyping.until end of production is sometimes less than 6 months.

Thats might be OK for smartphone manufacturers who are used to it, but not enough to complete cert tests and paperwork for a small startup, and ramp up production.

A balance must exist between rigorous certification processes to verify mission assurance and enhancements to the systems to increase mission assurance and delivered capabilities, I would argue. It doesn't make sense to take a year to certify something if the object in question is manufactured in a day -- but it doesn't make sense either to make minute incremental steps every week and roll them out for consumption if those need to be certified up to high standards.

Block 4 *second stages* started flying in August, about 8.5 months ago to this day. Certification was expected in September 2017 according to the GAO assessment (originally, but at which point was that?) -- that obviously left about a month to certify a new, non-flight-proven major system that only flew twice more in the considered period. Note the extra month also accounts for the time SpaceX used to correct something that wasn't up to standards, on their side, in order to satisfy requirements.

I don't have the post history at hand now, but I remember a lot of speculation was floating around, for a few months, about when SpaceX would roll out the Block 4 S2, while they kept shooting up Block 3 S2s. What if the certification process wasn't the problem?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: ZachS09 on 05/02/2018 01:12 PM
Actually, Block 4 upper stages began flying in May 2017 and were stacked atop several Block 3 booster rockets. The Block 4 booster rockets began flying in August 2017.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: eeergo on 05/02/2018 11:55 PM
Actually, Block 4 upper stages began flying in May 2017 and were stacked atop several Block 3 booster rockets. The Block 4 booster rockets began flying in August 2017.

You're right about that, there were two flights of Block 4 second stages on Block 3 first stages in May. S1 and 2 should be independent of one another (assumption) so the missions for NROL-76 and I5-F4 could in principle be counted towards B4S2 certification. That adds 3 months to my post above, and makes a total of five B4S2 flown before being certified for high-profile NASA missions.

This means the certification process was initially envisioned to take 4 months (more realistic than the single month estimated above, clearly), but ended up lasting 5, due to certification delays *and* corrective action implementation.

Still, the substance remains - I don't find why this small launch slip should be frowned upon, or why it's being assumed it was solely due to the certification bureaucracy dragging on needlessly.
Title: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Updates
Post by: seruriermarshal on 05/08/2018 10:48 AM
First pic of a fairing return (from TESS launch 3 weeks ago).
Title: Re: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Updates
Post by: pospa on 05/08/2018 03:31 PM
First pic of a fairing return (from TESS launch 3 weeks ago).

What is the source of your info this picture is from TESS mission?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: tleski on 05/08/2018 03:41 PM
First pic of a fairing return (from TESS launch 3 weeks ago).

What is the source of your info this picture is from TESS mission?

The source is Elon's instagram.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BiQ5qXnA_OM/
Posted on May 2nd. This photo was discussed extensively in the fairing recovery thread.
Title: Re: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Updates
Post by: nacnud on 05/08/2018 03:42 PM
First pic of a fairing return (from TESS launch 3 weeks ago).

What is the source of your info this picture is from TESS mission?

Elon Musks instagram

https://www.instagram.com/p/BiQ5qXnA_OM/?hl=en&taken-by=elonmusk
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: tleski on 05/08/2018 03:47 PM

[...]

Let's not go all fanboi into a SpaceX vs NASA discussion again. The reason reviews weren't done faster isn't stated, and I would guess having mission assurance oversight in order to prevent mishaps is something desirable, not the contrary. It doesn't matter if it was the last Block 4, the review on S2 COPVs (which caused two LOMs so far) wasn't mature on time.

Official investigation report concluded that CRS-7 LOM was caused by a strut failure not a COPV issue. Do we have any new information pointing to COPV? But I guess this is off topic for this thread.
Title: Re: Re: LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Updates
Post by: pospa on 05/08/2018 03:50 PM
First pic of a fairing return (from TESS launch 3 weeks ago).

What is the source of your info this picture is from TESS mission?

Elon Musks instagram

Sorry, but he is not being specific about from which mission this picture is.
Btw, we know this picture since it was posted, discussed here: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37727.msg1816687#msg1816687
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: abaddon on 05/08/2018 03:59 PM
Official investigation report concluded that CRS-7 LOM was caused by a strut failure not a COPV issue. Do we have any new information pointing to COPV? But I guess this is off topic for this thread.
A strut bolting the COPV to the tank wall.  One could reasonably consider that a part of the COPV system (and the design that puts them inside the LOX tank), even though it isn't part of the COPV proper.

Yes, this is all off-topic, so best to move on.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: dnavas on 05/08/2018 04:26 PM
Sorry, but he is not being specific about from which mission this picture is.

space.com attributes it to TESS: https://www.space.com/40509-spacex-payload-fairing-parafoil-photo.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Raul on 05/08/2018 08:20 PM
Sorry, but he is not being specific about from which mission this picture is.
space.com attributes it to TESS: https://www.space.com/40509-spacex-payload-fairing-parafoil-photo.html

Last week, I also considered during which mission could be taken this photo. And regardless of space.com article, I would have the same opinion, that this fairing is really from TESS mission. Not only because it's a recent mission...

1, Successful fairing landing attempt at least in the water was possible in these missions: TESS (2.0.), Iridium-5, Paz (2.0.), Iridium-4 (unconfirmed), Intelsat-35e (unconfirmed), BulgariaSat-1 (unconfirmed), Inmarsat-5 F4,  NROL-76

2, From all of these missions, only two missions launched at such a time, that fairing could reach the sun approximately 0.5° above the horizon at sunset (TESS) or sunrise (Paz) -  by the way, both missions with fairing 2.0.

3, Although it is almost impossible to recognize the sunrise or sunset in the photo taken over the sea. Both these missions launched under relatively different climatic conditions, that should affect the appearance of this photo for example by the amount of water vapor present in the air - absolute humidity affected by temperature: TESS 24°C, PAZ 2°C. More saturated, more orange and red, harsher colors of photo remind me much more of sunset at higher temperature, than sunrise at freezing temperatures at the end of February on the West Coast - points to the TESS mission, before fairing soft water landing in the ocean near Go Pursuit.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: pospa on 05/09/2018 07:28 AM
Thanks Raul, your analysis seems to be reasonable and more trustworthy then other sources.
So I agree with you its most probably from TESS mission.  ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Yeknom-Ecaps on 05/24/2018 05:10 PM
Here are some videos of the fairings in port - with both fairing on OCISLY - and in the video you can see the TESS logo. One fairing had the parasail is in great shape .... the other not so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-KgAhtXcMI

In this video the non-parasail fairing is still under the tarp as seen in the first video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rSJmZ4GOZA
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: Yeknom-Ecaps on 07/20/2018 10:06 PM
Is there a list of all the post launch events somewhere? Perigee maneuvers, instrument checkouts, etc.

Periodically some appear on the NASA TESS page but many do not.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : TESS : April 18, 2018 : Discussion
Post by: CorvusCorax on 09/25/2018 10:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrIyqnAFHNs&t=317s

That is some really awesome launch footage there, especially at t=561

-- toasty transporter erector :-)

The F9 gets off the pad real quick, but wow - during those few seconds the ablative paint at the pad base seems to gets some heavy workout :)