Author Topic: Information about Angara rocket  (Read 399464 times)

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #440 on: 06/01/2017 04:04 am »
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3310777

"Kommersant" reports Angara-A5P is "cancelled" until a super-heavy launcher is created

Roscosmos stopped working on a manned version of Angara launcher.
Роскосмос отказался от пилотируемой версии ракеты «Ангара»

http://kosmolenta.com/index.php/1064-2017-05-30-manned-phoenix

So, what now? Is that basically an admission that the new crew craft (PTK NP?) is indefinitely delayed? Or what will it launch on? Neither Phoenix/Soyuz-5 or Baiterek or whatever seems to have been given a green light.

Offline B. Hendrickx

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #441 on: 06/01/2017 07:12 am »
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3310777

"Kommersant" reports Angara-A5P is "cancelled" until a super-heavy launcher is created

Roscosmos stopped working on a manned version of Angara launcher.
Роскосмос отказался от пилотируемой версии ракеты «Ангара»

http://kosmolenta.com/index.php/1064-2017-05-30-manned-phoenix

So, what now? Is that basically an admission that the new crew craft (PTK NP?) is indefinitely delayed? Or what will it launch on? Neither Phoenix/Soyuz-5 or Baiterek or whatever seems to have been given a green light.

Discussed in the thread "Russia To Develop A New-Generation Manned Spacecraft"
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23160.480



Online Stan Black

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #442 on: 01/01/2018 02:48 pm »
Some details about the delays can be found here:-
http://penzatrend.ru/index.php/nsg/item/26352-sekretnye-izdeliya-iz-inostrannyh-komplektuyuschih

Anyone translate?

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #443 on: 01/02/2018 02:47 am »
Bing translation. Seems to be a dispute on the pricing of some electronic components. Not sure how relevant this is to a delay.

"Secret products from foreign components

Dmitry GULIN

«NIIFI» inflated the price of the system for carrier rocket "AngaraA5"

"At the 07.08.2017" SATELLITE is to them. Khrunichev "from JSC" NIIFI "signed a contract for the supply of 20 3 systems with 078. FAS Commission determined that given the existing contracts of JSC "NIIFI" you need to put 20 systems with 078, to pick which require 2 520 pieces electronic and radio devices.

Also found that JSC «NIIFI» includes price 5 systems with 078 contract "jelektroradioizdelija costs in the amount of 4 908 PCs. Thus, the costs for the acquisition of additional 2 388 pieces of electronic and radio devices do not apply directly to the realization of systems with 20 078 ", and their inclusion in the price under the contract did not meet the requirements of the procedure for determining the composition of the costs.
« Last Edit: 01/02/2018 04:02 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Stan Black

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #444 on: 01/02/2018 03:14 pm »
Bing translation. Seems to be a dispute on the pricing of some electronic components. Not sure how relevant this is to a delay.

I think this contains the same details:-
http://solutions.fas.gov.ru/ca/upravlenie-kontrolya-aviatsionnoy-raketno-kosmicheskoy-i-atomnoy-promyshlennosti/29-77535-17

There is something about Angara-A5 №71753 to №71756. There is a dispute about the cost of a component. Khrunichev paid an inflated price to prevent delays in completing №71753? Something like that.
« Last Edit: 01/02/2018 03:14 pm by Stan Black »

Offline koshvv

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #445 on: 01/03/2018 02:56 pm »
There is something about Angara-A5 №71753 to №71756. There is a dispute about the cost of a component. Khrunichev paid an inflated price to prevent delays in completing №71753? Something like that.
Yes. That's basic econonic dispute over hardly surprising behaviour of sole supplier.
Sole component supplier inflated price, Khrunichev bought components at this price to prevent delay and filed complaint to antimonopoly authority. It investigated the case and found that price was inflated unreasonably.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #446 on: 01/16/2018 12:47 pm »
Quote
#Roscosmos reports delivery of two boosters for the 2nd #Angara-5 mission... but two more apparently yet to come. DETAILS: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/angara5-flight2.html#2018

https://twitter.com/RussianSpaceWeb/status/953259891531141121

Offline eeergo

Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #447 on: 01/25/2018 03:08 pm »



Preparation for the serial production of the rocket-system of the family "Angara" continues
https://www.roscosmos.ru/24594/


Quote

The Khrunichev Center (part of the State Corporation "ROSKOSMOS") together with the Central Scientific Research Institute of Machine Building (TsNIIMash) conducts vibration and strength tests of one of the universal URM-1 rocket modules used in the first stage of the Angara-A5 launch vehicle. These tests began in late 2017 and will last several months.


Carrying out of tests in TSNIIMash is necessary for an objective estimation of quality and reliability of a product before its statement on a batch production.


The serial production of URMs for the carrier rockets of the Angara family is created on the basis of the Omsk production site of the Khrunichev Center - in PO Polyot. The purpose of the tests is to assess the technological readiness of production in the Polet software, organized using the latest technological equipment, equipment and progressive production processes, to the serial production of Angara carrier rockets. Now the enterprise produces separate parts for the second and third flight rockets without assembly of products.


Omsk "Polet" has already manufactured and began to supply parts of the URMs to Moscow for the second flight rocket "Angara-A5". The bench sample of one of these modules (the so-called "PV" product, the abbreviation "PV" means "flight + vibration testing") and is now tested on the unique in its capabilities experimental base of strength and dynamics TsNIIMash.


The final assembly of the second flight rocket "Angara-A5" will be performed at the missile and space plant of the Khrunichev Center in Moscow. Sending of the carrier rocket "Angara-A5" to the cosmodrome Plesetsk is planned in 2018.
-DaviD-

Online Stan Black

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #448 on: 03/16/2018 02:21 pm »

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #449 on: 04/24/2018 03:04 am »
So I just watched the interesting “Angara” documentary on amazon prime (subtitled - it was originally a Russian production done a few years ago).

At the time they obviously did not anticipate the production problems, nor how Angara now seems to have fallen out of favor compared to the “new project” Soyuz 5. Nor how much the commercial market now has changed...

So what is the current status of the next launch? I’m not sure how to read the attachment in the previous post, does it mean that the next launch is happening this year or in 2021?
« Last Edit: 04/24/2018 03:05 am by Lars-J »

Offline smoliarm

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #450 on: 04/24/2018 01:17 pm »

...

So what is the current status of the next launch? I’m not sure how to read the attachment in the previous post, does it mean that the next launch is happening this year or in 2021?
Well, the status of the next launch is unclear, but at least I can tell how to read the table, e.g., the first row:
2018г.  --  527 000 000,0;
2019г.  --  428 839 720,0;
2020г.  --  1 034 570 420,0;
2021г.  --  3 018 078 500,0;
These entries for "Angara A5 №1" show spending on manufacturing of this first production LV - year by year.
Given the amount for the last year (about 60% of all cost), it would be safe to guess that the launch is planned as NET 2022.

Also the table implies that the launches of Angara A5 №2 and Angara A5 №3 will happen NET 2024 and 2025, correspondingly.

Finally, this table gives the actual reason - why Angara does not fly: it turned out to be ridiculously expensive.
For the same manufacturing period (2019-2021) we have several orders to build Proton-M, and the average contract price is ~ 2.1 B rub. So that Angara A5 is ca. 2.5 times more expensive with its production price tag 5 Billion.

BTW, these 5 Billion rub. cover the LV production - ONLY.
It DOES NOT include Upper stage, PL fairing, transportation and launch cost.
« Last Edit: 04/24/2018 01:19 pm by smoliarm »

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #451 on: 04/24/2018 04:39 pm »
Finally, this table gives the actual reason - why Angara does not fly: it turned out to be ridiculously expensive.
For the same manufacturing period (2019-2021) we have several orders to build Proton-M, and the average contract price is ~ 2.1 B rub. So that Angara A5 is ca. 2.5 times more expensive with its production price tag 5 Billion.

BTW, these 5 Billion rub. cover the LV production - ONLY.
It DOES NOT include Upper stage, PL fairing, transportation and launch cost.

Yikes!  :o (if true!)

Online Stan Black

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #452 on: 04/24/2018 04:40 pm »
So I just watched the interesting “Angara” documentary on amazon prime (subtitled - it was originally a Russian production done a few years ago).

At the time they obviously did not anticipate the production problems, nor how Angara now seems to have fallen out of favor compared to the “new project” Soyuz 5. Nor how much the commercial market now has changed...

So what is the current status of the next launch? I’m not sure how to read the attachment in the previous post, does it mean that the next launch is happening this year or in 2021?

It is Angara-A5P that is no longer required, however they still require Angara-A5. Not sure what those three rockets will be used for, but the 1st is not required until 2021.

Offline Arch Admiral

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #453 on: 04/28/2018 03:41 am »
Yikes and double Yikes!  Can anyone explain this huge cost difference between Proton and Angara-5?

-- Learning curve?
-- Attempt to rapidly recover large cost of tooling at new plant in Omsk?
-- Over-complicated design with too many stages/modules?

Offline Arcas

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #454 on: 04/28/2018 03:50 am »
Corruption. Nothing in Russia happens anymore without 15 oligarchs taking a cut along the way.

Same thing with the new launch site, and the space station modules.
The risk I took was calculated, but boy am I bad at math.

Offline smoliarm

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #455 on: 04/28/2018 08:08 pm »
Finally, this table gives the actual reason - why Angara does not fly: it turned out to be ridiculously expensive.
For the same manufacturing period (2019-2021) we have several orders to build Proton-M, and the average contract price is ~ 2.1 B rub. So that Angara A5 is ca. 2.5 times more expensive with its production price tag 5 Billion.

BTW, these 5 Billion rub. cover the LV production - ONLY.
It DOES NOT include Upper stage, PL fairing, transportation and launch cost.

Yikes!  :o (if true!)

well, it IS true - at least with respect to the prices - these numbers are from the government documents and not from some interview or newspaper.

And with respect to "ridiculously" - it is my personal opinion. Which may be wrong ;)

Offline Arch Admiral

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #456 on: 04/30/2018 04:09 am »
So Angara-A5 is too expensive to buy.  Proton is increasingly unpopular in Kazhakstan, whose government has been gradually phasing out Russian operations on their territory. (The latest example is the constuction of launch silos for the GAZELLE ABM at Kapustin Yar to replace the ones at Sary Shagan.)  How soon will Russia lose all heavy-satellite launch capability?

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #457 on: 04/30/2018 06:26 am »
So Angara-A5 is too expensive to buy.  Proton is increasingly unpopular in Kazhakstan, whose government has been gradually phasing out Russian operations on their territory. (The latest example is the constuction of launch silos for the GAZELLE ABM at Kapustin Yar to replace the ones at Sary Shagan.)  How soon will Russia lose all heavy-satellite launch capability?

Not very soon. Even if Angara A5 is expensive, its still available.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline smoliarm

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #458 on: 04/30/2018 07:54 am »
So Angara-A5 is too expensive to buy.  Proton is increasingly unpopular in Kazhakstan, whose government has been gradually phasing out Russian operations on their territory. (The latest example is the constuction of launch silos for the GAZELLE ABM at Kapustin Yar to replace the ones at Sary Shagan.)  How soon will Russia lose all heavy-satellite launch capability?

Not very soon. Even if Angara A5 is expensive, its still available.

- Well, Angara A5 WILL be available no earlier than 2022 and IF there will be no delays with production schedule.
Until then - there is no substitute to Proton (and Zenit - IF Ukraine agrees to restart its production).

Concerning Proton - AFAIK, Kazakhstan government does not want to renew the agreement for Proton launches.
And the main point is - they are opposed to UDMH used on their soil in massive amounts (ca. 200 tons per launch).
I do not know when the current Baikonur lease expires - some say 2020, some 2025.
If the true date is closer to 2020 - then there is a chance of loss of a heavy-satellite launch capability - for some period.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Information about Angara rocket
« Reply #459 on: 05/01/2018 04:09 am »
Well, Angara A5 WILL be available no earlier than 2022 and IF there will be no delays with production schedule.

I don't understand. Angara A5 successfully flew in December 2014. Doesn't that make it available? Isn't it just a matter of paying for and building them?
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

 

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