Can cavity design alter the number of direct end to end photon reflections vs side wall reflecting photons?What happens to cavity Q and trapped photon life inside the cavity if the number of side wall reflecting photons can be reduced?
Quote from: TheTraveller on 05/15/2017 04:35 pmCan cavity design alter the number of direct end to end photon reflections vs side wall reflecting photons?What happens to cavity Q and trapped photon life inside the cavity if the number of side wall reflecting photons can be reduced?Seems you don't realize that the photon wavelength in this kind of cavity resonators is of the order of the structure. BTWhttp://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39214.msg1536095#msg1536095
Quote from: X_RaY on 05/15/2017 05:05 pmQuote from: TheTraveller on 05/15/2017 04:35 pmCan cavity design alter the number of direct end to end photon reflections vs side wall reflecting photons?What happens to cavity Q and trapped photon life inside the cavity if the number of side wall reflecting photons can be reduced?Seems you don't realize that the photon wavelength in this kind of cavity resonators is of the order of the structure. BTWhttp://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39214.msg1536095#msg1536095Sure do.TE013 = 3 x 1/2 effective guide waves between end plates.So you are saying that using convex small end and concave big end spherical end plates will have NO EFFECT on the ratio of side wall reflecting to end plate reflecting photons? If so are you also saying that building other than flat end plate cavities is a waste of effort?
Quote from: TheTraveller on 05/15/2017 05:44 pmQuote from: X_RaY on 05/15/2017 05:05 pmQuote from: TheTraveller on 05/15/2017 04:35 pmCan cavity design alter the number of direct end to end photon reflections vs side wall reflecting photons?What happens to cavity Q and trapped photon life inside the cavity if the number of side wall reflecting photons can be reduced?Seems you don't realize that the photon wavelength in this kind of cavity resonators is of the order of the structure. BTWhttp://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39214.msg1536095#msg1536095Sure do.TE013 = 3 x 1/2 effective guide waves between end plates.So you are saying that using convex small end and concave big end spherical end plates will have NO EFFECT on the ratio of side wall reflecting to end plate reflecting photons? If so are you also saying that building other than flat end plate cavities is a waste of effort?The concave and convex endplate guarantee that the wave is reflected at the same phase over the full area of the endplates. Therefore the counterpropagating waves form a more narrow bandwidth standing wave pattern than in the case of the flat plates. Flat end plates leads to phase distorsion and inperfect constructive interferences what lowers the Q.So please explain, what exactly do you think you can do to protect the wave from interacting with the sidewall as it must satisfy the boundary conditions of the conductive wall material?
Quote from: X_RaY on 05/15/2017 06:21 pmQuote from: TheTraveller on 05/15/2017 05:44 pmQuote from: X_RaY on 05/15/2017 05:05 pmQuote from: TheTraveller on 05/15/2017 04:35 pmCan cavity design alter the number of direct end to end photon reflections vs side wall reflecting photons?What happens to cavity Q and trapped photon life inside the cavity if the number of side wall reflecting photons can be reduced?Seems you don't realize that the photon wavelength in this kind of cavity resonators is of the order of the structure. BTWhttp://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39214.msg1536095#msg1536095Sure do.TE013 = 3 x 1/2 effective guide waves between end plates.So you are saying that using convex small end and concave big end spherical end plates will have NO EFFECT on the ratio of side wall reflecting to end plate reflecting photons? If so are you also saying that building other than flat end plate cavities is a waste of effort?The concave and convex endplate guarantee that the wave is reflected at the same phase over the full area of the endplates. Therefore the counterpropagating waves form a more narrow bandwidth standing wave pattern than in the case of the flat plates. Flat end plates leads to phase distorsion and inperfect constructive interferences what lowers the Q.So please explain, what exactly do you think you can do to protect the wave from interacting with the sidewall as it must satisfy the boundary conditions of the conductive wall material?It's like TT is talking only about bouncing photons as corpuscular particles only, and you're talking about the effects of electromagnetic waves. Both aspects need to be taken into account, as light can be described as a group of discrete quanta but also as waves. Otherwise you two… are not on the same wavelength
The concave and convex endplate guarantee that the wave is reflected at the same phase over the full area of the endplates. Therefore the counterpropagating waves form a more narrow bandwidth standing wave pattern than in the case of the flat plates. Flat end plates leads to phase distorsion and inperfect constructive interferences what lowers the Q.
Quote from: TheTraveller on 05/15/2017 04:35 pmCan cavity design alter the number of direct end to end photon reflections vs side wall reflecting photons?What happens to cavity Q and trapped photon life inside the cavity if the number of side wall reflecting photons can be reduced?Answer 1) Sure it can. That's why the coherence length of a laser depends on its end optics.Answer 2) See answer 1 above.
Quote from: X_RaY on 05/15/2017 06:21 pm...So please explain, what exactly do you think you can do to protect the wave from interacting with the sidewall as it must satisfy the boundary conditions of the conductive wall material?I'll bite... change the boundary condition through use of a different material or coating on the sidewall?mh
...So please explain, what exactly do you think you can do to protect the wave from interacting with the sidewall as it must satisfy the boundary conditions of the conductive wall material?
Suggest that a better mathematical model for waves in the cavity may be a caustic (see Caustic_(optics) and Caustic_(mathematics)).The simplest example of a caustic is the shadows you see of ripples in a pool. They are formed from the lensing action of variable density/path of light through the medium. In terms of mathematics, its the folding of the manifold created by a density wave, such as one created by a trapped microwave E/M field of finite size.Caustics are sometimes used in high powered beam forming situations, like with certain kinds of particle accelerators. They have also been used to describe natural energy beaming in cosmic and planetary phenomena.You can have group force terms of statistical phase reinforcement with caustics, where the manifold solutions permit.Perhaps this might fit this application better than wavelength resonant cavity models including lasers do?Sorry for butting in.
That is not entirely true Dave. http://emdrive.wiki/Experimental_Results ShellQuote from: rfmwguy on 05/12/2017 01:43 pmA surprise disclosure of performance, while exciting, is not productive without public evidence. This applies to EmDrive, megadrive or whateverdrive somebody wants to promote and get funding for. Other than monomorphic, I've seen no one other than myself provide a video diary/pics/data of the trials and tribulations of designing, building and testing one of these things. That includes Woodward and his many allies.Secret labs and promises will kill this and other similar projects IMHO.If people want to play hide and seek with their efforts, I simply look at it as a funding scheme. Data, pics and vids get my attention, not clever words, arrogant authoritarianism or a spew of equations to try and impress the readership.I'll check back from time to time for real results. I suggest spreadsheets, pics and vids to get my attention. If you don't want my attention, keep on keyboarding. - Back to the shadows - Dave
A surprise disclosure of performance, while exciting, is not productive without public evidence. This applies to EmDrive, megadrive or whateverdrive somebody wants to promote and get funding for. Other than monomorphic, I've seen no one other than myself provide a video diary/pics/data of the trials and tribulations of designing, building and testing one of these things. That includes Woodward and his many allies.Secret labs and promises will kill this and other similar projects IMHO.If people want to play hide and seek with their efforts, I simply look at it as a funding scheme. Data, pics and vids get my attention, not clever words, arrogant authoritarianism or a spew of equations to try and impress the readership.I'll check back from time to time for real results. I suggest spreadsheets, pics and vids to get my attention. If you don't want my attention, keep on keyboarding. - Back to the shadows - Dave
Dr Woodward fairly regularly provides updates of his experimental work via his mailing list, thus it's hardly hidden away - as Paul rightly notes. AdamQuote from: Star-Drive on 05/12/2017 05:07 pmQuote from: rfmwguy on 05/12/2017 01:43 pmA surprise disclosure of performance, while exciting, is not productive without public evidence. This applies to EmDrive, megadrive or whateverdrive somebody wants to promote and get funding for. Other than monomorphic, I've seen no one other than myself provide a video diary/pics/data of the trials and tribulations of designing, building and testing one of these things. That includes Woodward and his many allies.Secret labs and promises will kill this and other similar projects IMHO.If people want to play hide and seek with their efforts, I simply look at it as a funding scheme. Data, pics and vids get my attention, not clever words, arrogant authoritarianism or a spew of equations to try and impress the readership.I'll check back from time to time for real results. I suggest spreadsheets, pics and vids to get my attention. If you don't want my attention, keep on keyboarding. - Back to the shadows - DaveDave:"That includes Woodward and his many allies."Dr. Woodward has been publishing his Mach-Effect conjectures and test results in peer reviewed publications since 1988 and has had a number of pictures and videos of his test setup and results published on the web as well. He just doesn't choose to frequent NSF.com...Best, Paul M.
Quote from: rfmwguy on 05/12/2017 01:43 pmA surprise disclosure of performance, while exciting, is not productive without public evidence. This applies to EmDrive, megadrive or whateverdrive somebody wants to promote and get funding for. Other than monomorphic, I've seen no one other than myself provide a video diary/pics/data of the trials and tribulations of designing, building and testing one of these things. That includes Woodward and his many allies.Secret labs and promises will kill this and other similar projects IMHO.If people want to play hide and seek with their efforts, I simply look at it as a funding scheme. Data, pics and vids get my attention, not clever words, arrogant authoritarianism or a spew of equations to try and impress the readership.I'll check back from time to time for real results. I suggest spreadsheets, pics and vids to get my attention. If you don't want my attention, keep on keyboarding. - Back to the shadows - DaveDave:"That includes Woodward and his many allies."Dr. Woodward has been publishing his Mach-Effect conjectures and test results in peer reviewed publications since 1988 and has had a number of pictures and videos of his test setup and results published on the web as well. He just doesn't choose to frequent NSF.com...Best, Paul M.
Quote from: SeeShells on 05/12/2017 05:53 pmThat is not entirely true Dave. http://emdrive.wiki/Experimental_Results ShellQuote from: rfmwguy on 05/12/2017 01:43 pmA surprise disclosure of performance, while exciting, is not productive without public evidence. This applies to EmDrive, megadrive or whateverdrive somebody wants to promote and get funding for. Other than monomorphic, I've seen no one other than myself provide a video diary/pics/data of the trials and tribulations of designing, building and testing one of these things. That includes Woodward and his many allies.Secret labs and promises will kill this and other similar projects IMHO.If people want to play hide and seek with their efforts, I simply look at it as a funding scheme. Data, pics and vids get my attention, not clever words, arrogant authoritarianism or a spew of equations to try and impress the readership.I'll check back from time to time for real results. I suggest spreadsheets, pics and vids to get my attention. If you don't want my attention, keep on keyboarding. - Back to the shadows - DaveA third party plugging in information on wiki is of little interest, sorry.