Author Topic: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion  (Read 118984 times)

Offline abhishek

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #140 on: 07/15/2018 02:59 pm »
10, 9, ignition sequence start 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, all engines running Lift off, we have a lift off, lift off

Offline K210

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #141 on: 07/15/2018 09:26 pm »
This must be the high thrust version of sea level vikas. Wish they would release some specs and video.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #142 on: 07/16/2018 08:25 am »
The link also said the engine will be used in PSLV and GSLV, so both sea level and vacuum engines will get a performance boost.

"This engine will improve the payload capability of PSLV, GSLV and GSLV Mk-III launch vehicles."

Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline srikanthr124

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #143 on: 07/17/2018 01:21 pm »
Chamber pressure increased from 58 bar to 62 bar.
The vacuum-lit version was already flight tested on last GSLV launch. This is the ground lit version.
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LPSC director V Narayanan told Express that the improved engine would give a significant advantage in terms of enhancing payload capability. “Usually, the chamber pressure is 58 bar, but with the use of high-thrust Vikas engine, we will achieve 62 bar, which is a 6% increase in thrust that gives us 70 kgs of additional payload gain in this mission. Right now, we are going to use the high-thrust Vikas engine only in the second stage. Basically, we are validating it. For Chandrayaan-2 mission, we will be using five such engines aiming for a payload gain of around 250 kgs,” Narayanan said.
With eye on lunar mission, ISRO to test high-thrust Vikas engine
HTVEs on the strap ons will not only increase efficiency of the strap on motors, but also decrease the time that the empty weight of the S139 is carried by about 7 seconds. That total improvement in payload will be around 250kgs.They will also increase the fuel in the CUS and the burn rate. This will also increase the payload by a couple of 100 kgs.


Offline srikanthr124

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #144 on: 07/17/2018 01:55 pm »
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Snapshots of a Presentation by @isro 's S. Somanath, director of VSSC, from the India side event at this year's Toulouse Space Show. Glimpses of India's future launch vehicles, propulsion, and much more!
twitter.com/Prasannasimha




« Last Edit: 07/17/2018 02:18 pm by srikanthr124 »

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #145 on: 07/17/2018 10:33 pm »
Upgraded Vikas engine will soon boost ISRO's rockets

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All three satellite launch vehicles of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) are set to add muscle to their spacecraft lifting power in upcoming missions this year. The space agency has improved the thrust of the Vikas engine that powers all of them. The agency said the high-thrust engine qualified on Sunday after a ground test lasting 195 seconds (over three minutes).

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The main beneficiary of the high-thrust Vikas engine is said to be the heavy-lifting GSLV-Mark III launcher, which ISRO expects will now put 4,000-kg satellites to space. This would be the third Mk-III and the first working one to be designated MkIII Mission-1 or M1.

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The first MkIII of June 2017 started with a 3,200-kg satellite and the second one is being readied for lifting a 3,500-kg spacecraft. The Vikas engine "will improve the payload capability of PSLV, GSLV and GSLVMk-III launch vehicles," ISRO said. The improvement effort, the second such since December 2001, was conducted at ISRO Propulsion Complex in Mahendragiri, Tamil Nadu.

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S. Somanath, Director, Launch Vehicles Centre, Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, said the incremental benefit of the upgraded engine should be seen in the PSLV and GSLV missions over the coming months. MkIII-D2, the second test flight of the heavy-lifter, is being assembled. The new engine will be used in the subsequent mission - M1.

The Vikas engine is used in the second stage of the light lifting PSLV; the second stage and the four add-on stages of the medium-lift GSLV; and the twin-engine core liquid stage of Mk-III.
« Last Edit: 01/28/2019 07:55 am by worldtimedate »

Offline worldtimedate

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #146 on: 01/28/2019 07:58 am »
The reporter of the following news item attempts to confuse the readers and himself with contradictory statement by first saying that ISRO will use highly refined form of kerosene as fuel in the upper stage to increase its paylod capability. then by contradicting himsefl by saying that that ISRO is working on enhancing the cryogenic stage fuel loading from 25 tonnes to 30 tonnes. He seems to be confused about the core stage enhancement and upper stage enhaancement.

Isro eyes kerosene to boost GSLV Mk III’s lifting power to 6 ton

If his first statement that ISRO will use RP-1 for C25 cryogenic stage turns out to be true, then ISRO is to assumed to be abandoning cryogenic fuel in favour of kerosene. That will be really unfortunate of ISRO as cryogenic fuel has much higher ISP ( 420 sec - 450 sec ) than Kerosene ( 290 sec - 330 sec). It would be rather foolish of ISRO to take such suicidal decision after having toiled over 14 to 15 years to indigenously master the cryogenic technology against the backdrop of sanction by the global technology denial regime like MTCR and the arm-twisting by the USA and to fritter away the mastery of cryogenic engine technology, closely guarded secret in the rocketry. I am hoping that the reporter's first statement is untrue and ISRO will use the CE-20 cryogenic engine as it is the most powerful upper stage cryogenic engine developed so far and ISRO should be proud of this achievement. Only the Vinci Upper Stage Cryogenic Engine ( to be used in the Ariane 6 ) with the thrust of 180 kN comes very close to the performance of CE-20.

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Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) is working on upgrading its heavylifter GSLV Mk III where the upper stage of the rocket will have highly refined form of kerosene as fuel in order to increase its payload capability.

Talking to TOI, Isro chairman K Sivan said, "To increase the payload capability of GSLV Mk III from 4 tonnes to 6 tonnes, we are in the process of making some improvements in rocket stages. First, we are working on enhancing the cryogenic stage fuel loading from 25 tonnes to 30 tonnes. Second, we are also working on changing the core stage L110 - which has 110 tonnes of unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine (UDMH) and dinitrogen tetroxide (N2O4). We want to replace L110 stage with semicryogenic engine that will carry liquefied oxygen and highly refined kerosene called kerolox (aka RP-1) instead of liquefied hydrogen."

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Sivan said, "The first test of the advanced version of Mk III will take place in December 2020. With upgrade in Mk III, we will also have to upgrade the launchpad facility at Sriharikota. We have therefore issued a tender notice recently inviting quotations for infrastructure upgrades at the second launchpad."

However, the chairman clarified the rocket with the semicryogenic stage won't be used for the Gaganyaan mission. The current GSLV Mk III with L110 stage will only be used for the manned mission with some modifications.

The advantage of using kerolox is that it is 10 times dense - meaning the same volume of kerolox will generate more thrust than the same volume of hydrolox. It is also cheaper, more stable at room temperature and less hazardous than hydrolox. Elon Musk-promoted Space X currently uses kerolox in its Falcon 9 rocket for launching heavy payloads.

Offline sanman

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #147 on: 01/29/2019 03:33 am »
Yeah, it seems like TOI is muddling up the story a bit. We already knew that the transition from GSLV-Mk3 to the ULV family would involve changing out the lower L110 core (N2O4/UDMH) to the Semi-Cryo (Kerolox) core. The cryo upper stage would be upgraded to higher capacity.

So that story seems to roughly indicate that, minus the sloppy contradictions.


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Offline sanman

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #149 on: 07/15/2019 04:47 am »
So I'd like to discuss the latest "snag" (problem) that's aborted the latest launch for GSLV-Mk3.

Chandrayaan 2 moon mission launch was aborted due to fuel leak: ISRO sources


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According to sources with the ISRO, the launch of Chandrayaan 2 moon mission was on Monday aborted due a leak detected with the engine. The scientists have further revealed that it may take upto 10 days to fix the engine leak and that the launch is now likely next month. However, there is no official confirmation on the same.


If it really is the cryo engine that's experienced this problem, then what are the implications for GSLV-Mk3's reliability?
What kind of impact could there be on the planned Human Spaceflight mission?


Offline vyoma

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #150 on: 07/15/2019 05:06 am »
Cross-posting few news articles reporting LH2 propellent leak and batteries not being fully charged in cryo stage:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965774#msg1965774
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965775#msg1965775
« Last Edit: 07/15/2019 05:07 am by vyoma »

Offline sanman

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #151 on: 07/15/2019 11:34 am »
Is the batteries not being fully charged a related problem to the propellant leak? What could be the reason for that? Batteries do tend to suffer a loss of charge capacity in the cold - could a cryogen leak have caused this? Also, charging of some types of batteries itself produces hydrogen gas. Could that at all be causing hydrogen gas to be detected as a leak?

Online smoliarm

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #152 on: 07/15/2019 05:17 pm »
Is the batteries not being fully charged a related problem to the propellant leak? What could be the reason for that? Batteries do tend to suffer a loss of charge capacity in the cold - could a cryogen leak have caused this? ...
Short answer - yes.
Long answer:
Here is one thing which is common for ALL types chemical batteries - as temperature drops their internal resistance increase.
Second common thing for chemical batteries - during discharge their internal resistance - ALSO - increase.
And finally, they usually check the battery charge level by measuring current (or voltage if prefer) through some standard resistor. For a given battery type we know its emf, we know the value of standard resistor and we just measured the current - so we can calculate internal resistance of our cell.
And if - by some reason - the temperature of our cell fells far below the usual (or expected) temperature - then, during the charge check - it will LOOK LIKE it have lost some charge. Although it did not, and if you warm the cell up to the normal T, the charge check with be normal again.

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Also, charging of some types of batteries itself produces hydrogen gas.
- theoretically - yes, but I strongly doubt they would use such type of cells in GSLV (or any rocket).
Li-ion cells CAN produce H2 gas - during catastrophic short. In normal modes, I believe, they must NOT release ANY H2 gas.

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Could that at all be causing hydrogen gas to be detected as a leak?
- I don't think so.
« Last Edit: 07/15/2019 05:19 pm by smoliarm »

Offline chota

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #153 on: 07/15/2019 05:51 pm »
> ISRO may announce it next launch date on Wednesday (17 July)
> If all goes well, launch could be as early as next Monday(22 July)
> ISRO has 1 min launch window for rest of this month (as compared to 10 mins on 15 July)
> Next window is in September or may not happen at all this year
> If present plan is missed, the new plan may incur more fuel consumption and reduced orbiter life
> Hence ISRO is in a race against time to launch GSLV as soon as possible

Source : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/key-decision-on-new-chandrayaan-2-launch-date-likely-wednesday/articleshow/70233965.cms?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=TOIMobile
« Last Edit: 07/15/2019 06:13 pm by chota »

Offline sanman

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #154 on: 07/16/2019 01:23 pm »
So regarding the helium bottle nipple leak that was found:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1966213#msg1966213

What's being said is that the nipple or the fitting it's attached to may have shrunk - perhaps due to proximity to the LOX tankage - and that's what may be causing the leak of the helium pressurant. If that's the case, then can't they just u̶s̶e̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶d̶u̶c̶t̶ ̶t̶a̶p̶e̶ spray some insulation foam on it, to insulate it enough to make do for this particular launch?
They can probably redesign later, after the immediate need for this mission is met.


Offline chota

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #155 on: 07/16/2019 02:43 pm »
So regarding the helium bottle nipple leak that was found:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1966213#msg1966213

What's being said is that the nipple or the fitting it's attached to may have shrunk - perhaps due to proximity to the LOX tankage - and that's what may be causing the leak of the helium pressurant. If that's the case, then can't they just u̶s̶e̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶d̶u̶c̶t̶ ̶t̶a̶p̶e̶ spray some insulation foam on it, to insulate it enough to make do for this particular launch?
They can probably redesign later, after the immediate need for this mission is met.
We probably will know tomorrow and that's what they will be doing if they need to launch by July

Offline chota

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #156 on: 07/17/2019 08:01 am »
Some unexpected learning for current issue

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“Now we have to seal and insulate the joint from the cold or shift it away. The second option is tough if we were to work on the engine without dismantling the rocket. Now efforts are on to plug the leak without moving the rocket from the launchpad, so we can launch it sometime early next week,” said a source.

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A senior scientist said the Chandrayaan-2 setback has presented some learnings for the indigenous cryogenic engine

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CE-20, which was developed after studying Russian cryogenic engines used rigid joint. Isro adopted the rigid joint concept in several places. The rigid joints have lesser chances of leak, but if there is one, they have to be discarded and made again. ISRO doesn't  have the luxury to discard and use another engine in short notice.

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The Chandrayaan-2 experience may force Isro to make some changes in the cryogenic stage. We may not entirely drop rigid joints, but now we may think of having some add-ons like an ‘S’ loop or a ‘U’ loop that can help deal with such anomalies. This latest setback has been an unexpected learning curve
« Last Edit: 07/17/2019 08:03 am by chota »

Offline chota

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #157 on: 07/18/2019 12:36 pm »
So regarding the helium bottle nipple leak that was found:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1966213#msg1966213

What's being said is that the nipple or the fitting it's attached to may have shrunk - perhaps due to proximity to the LOX tankage - and that's what may be causing the leak of the helium pressurant. If that's the case, then can't they just u̶s̶e̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶d̶u̶c̶t̶ ̶t̶a̶p̶e̶ spray some insulation foam on it, to insulate it enough to make do for this particular launch?
They can probably redesign later, after the immediate need for this mission is met.

Quote
The problem was resolved without changing any component - just "tightening it worked".

Offline vyoma

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #158 on: 09/12/2019 07:30 am »
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/markets/walchandnagar-industries-climbs-12-on-isro-order-4428241.html

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Walchandnagar Industries (WIL) in its BSE filing said it secured an order worth Rs 77.20 crore plus escalation from the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre of ISRO located at Thiruvananthapuram.

The order is towards manufacturing and supply of head, middle and nozzle end segments (total 30 numbers) for the GSLV M KIII launch vehicle, it added.

GK Pillai, Managing Director & CEO said it is company's second largest single order from ISRO and the largest as far as the GSLV-M KIII launch vehicle is concerned.

Offline sanman

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Re: LVM-3 (ex-GSLV-Mk III) - General Discussion
« Reply #159 on: 09/13/2019 02:51 am »
More on Walchandnagar Industries getting the ISRO order contract for more SRBs for the GSLV Mk-III:


Tags: GSLV Mk3 LVM3 
 

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