I think this thread needs to be re-named to:"The Great MLM Debacle Thread"September 2015? This would honestly be comical if it weren't so sad. I have no idea how an experienced company can take 15 years to build something and still get it catastrophically wrong.ESA would get ERA on-orbit sooner if they just gave it to the Chinese.Bah, abysmul.
Per Space Pete's Request:QuoteI think this thread needs to be re-named to:"The Great MLM Debacle Thread"September 2015? This would honestly be comical if it weren't so sad. I have no idea how an experienced company can take 15 years to build something and still get it catastrophically wrong.ESA would get ERA on-orbit sooner if they just gave it to the Chinese.Bah, abysmul.
And yet they've got the (future almost) exclusivity of Angara for military launches, got control of KBKhA and the future crewed launch vehicle. I don't think they are getting punished too much for their failures. Heads roll but no process changes. What's the point of punishing if you only punish scapegoats?
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
Quote from: Prober on 11/30/2013 11:38 pmMust we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed? Per the new long range to 2020/21 FPIP ISS manifest, the slip into 2015 is the official status.
Quote from: Prober on 11/30/2013 11:38 pmMust we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed? The way things are going I would not be surprised if NEM-2 ends up launching in 2020, if ever.
Looks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?
Quote from: owais.usmani on 12/01/2013 04:52 pmLooks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?For now, only NEM-1 is contracted (to RKK Energiya).
Quote from: Nicolas PILLET on 12/01/2013 05:43 pmQuote from: owais.usmani on 12/01/2013 04:52 pmLooks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?For now, only NEM-1 is contracted (to RKK Energiya).Yeah, that's what I thought.
Quote from: owais.usmani on 12/02/2013 04:32 amQuote from: Nicolas PILLET on 12/01/2013 05:43 pmQuote from: owais.usmani on 12/01/2013 04:52 pmLooks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?For now, only NEM-1 is contracted (to RKK Energiya).Yeah, that's what I thought. What do you think my "if ever" comment was present for?
Quote from: Chris Bergin on 12/01/2013 12:12 amQuote from: Prober on 11/30/2013 11:38 pmMust we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed? Per the new long range to 2020/21 FPIP ISS manifest, the slip into 2015 is the official status.Chris I was going by this update:Launches of ISS RS Modules to ISS Taken from Anik's Russian Launch schedule (as always subject to change):2015Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – TimeNovember (TBD) – Nauka – Proton-M – Baikonur2016Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – TimeMay (TBD) – Progress M-UM (No. 303) – Soyuz-2-1B – Baikonur2017Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – Timeend of year – NEM-1 – Proton-M – Baikonur2018Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – TimeTBD – NEM-2 – Proton-M (TBD) – Baikonur (TBD)
Quote from: Prober on 12/01/2013 01:14 amQuote from: Chris Bergin on 12/01/2013 12:12 amQuote from: Prober on 11/30/2013 11:38 pmMust we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed? Per the new long range to 2020/21 FPIP ISS manifest, the slip into 2015 is the official status.Chris I was going by this update:Launches of ISS RS Modules to ISS Taken from Anik's Russian Launch schedule (as always subject to change):2015Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – TimeNovember (TBD) – Nauka – Proton-M – Baikonur2016Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – TimeMay (TBD) – Progress M-UM (No. 303) – Soyuz-2-1B – Baikonur2017Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – Timeend of year – NEM-1 – Proton-M – Baikonur2018Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – TimeTBD – NEM-2 – Proton-M (TBD) – Baikonur (TBD)If they carry through with that schedule, one module a year for the next few years, isn't bad. It keeps a consistent and fast pace. I'm more worried about the number of years we will be able to use them.
Quote from: PeterAlt on 12/02/2013 03:05 pmQuote from: Prober on 12/01/2013 01:14 amQuote from: Chris Bergin on 12/01/2013 12:12 amQuote from: Prober on 11/30/2013 11:38 pmMust we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed? Per the new long range to 2020/21 FPIP ISS manifest, the slip into 2015 is the official status.Chris I was going by this update:Launches of ISS RS Modules to ISS Taken from Anik's Russian Launch schedule (as always subject to change):2015Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – TimeNovember (TBD) – Nauka – Proton-M – Baikonur2016Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – TimeMay (TBD) – Progress M-UM (No. 303) – Soyuz-2-1B – Baikonur2017Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – Timeend of year – NEM-1 – Proton-M – Baikonur2018Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – TimeTBD – NEM-2 – Proton-M (TBD) – Baikonur (TBD)If they carry through with that schedule, one module a year for the next few years, isn't bad. It keeps a consistent and fast pace. I'm more worried about the number of years we will be able to use them.Before the last extension to ISS, a few years ago the following was and still is the current plan; According to the applicable Russian Directives to be performed, by Russia and other ISS partner countries that wish to participate in new station project, upon the end of ISS, but before Deorbiting preparations Modules MRM-1, MRM-2, MLM, UM, NEM-1 and NEM-2 are to be disconnected from ISS and reused as official beginning point for New station. Then some flights between ISS and new station will be done to transfer several equipments no longer needed on ISS to the New Russian led station.
Quote from: russianhalo117 on 12/02/2013 08:10 pmBefore the last extension to ISS, a few years ago the following was and still is the current plan; According to the applicable Russian Directives to be performed, by Russia and other ISS partner countries that wish to participate in new station project, upon the end of ISS, but before Deorbiting preparations Modules MRM-1, MRM-2, MLM, UM, NEM-1 and NEM-2 are to be disconnected from ISS and reused as official beginning point for New station. Then some flights between ISS and new station will be done to transfer several equipments no longer needed on ISS to the New Russian led station.Yeah, I knew that was always the intent. I didn't know MRM-1 and MRM-2 were part of plan. Where will the go?
Before the last extension to ISS, a few years ago the following was and still is the current plan; According to the applicable Russian Directives to be performed, by Russia and other ISS partner countries that wish to participate in new station project, upon the end of ISS, but before Deorbiting preparations Modules MRM-1, MRM-2, MLM, UM, NEM-1 and NEM-2 are to be disconnected from ISS and reused as official beginning point for New station. Then some flights between ISS and new station will be done to transfer several equipments no longer needed on ISS to the New Russian led station.
What i would really like to know if there has been any discussipn of OPSEK with chinese participation
While Roskosmos comes from the fact that the ISS will operate until 2028. Therefore, the delay for two years the MLM will not affect 20s.
This thing will never launch. Mark my words. (And no, I have no industry contacts, I'm just stating the obvious)
Nah. It'll just be kicked down the line to the next station wherever. They'll just keep rebuilding it again and again for subsequent requirements/capabilities.Then they'll screw up on those, delay and remediate til cancellation. Will go into storage, then be proposed for yet another role elsewhere. Higher latitude station, lunar, perhaps even Mars/Phobos.Waste not, want not. There's a lot of Russian space stuff in storage, wash, rinse, reuse.
Might as well melt it down and start over. This has gone beyond ridiculous now. There comes a point in engineering where you just throw more and more resources at ever diminishing returns. Time to cut and run.
Anatoly Zak @RussianSpaceWebRussian engineers choose scenario to salvage #ISS' #Nauka module. EXCLUSIVE DETAILS: http://russianspaceweb.com/iss-fgb2-mlm-2017.html #Roscosmos #MLM
It's basically rusting away and developing leaks faster than they can repair it
Still need to cross fingers and toes while touching some sturdy wood, but it seems negativity did not have the upper hand against resiliency in this occasion, in spite of "clear/obvious" alternatives being far faster-cheaper-better. Also regarding ERA.