Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : Merah Putih (Telkom 4) : August 7, 2018 - DISCUSSION  (Read 68179 times)

Offline gongora

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Discussion Thread for launch of Merah Putih (Telkom 4)

NSF Threads for Telkom 4 : Discussion / Updates

NSF Articles for Telkom 4 :

Successful launch August 7, 2018 at 01:18 EDT (05:18 UTC) on Falcon 9 booster 1046.2 (previously used for Bangabandhu-1 mission) to GTO.  ASDS landing was successful.  Satellite mass is 5800kg.


I guess I should start a mission thread for this one soon (although it's still 20+ spots down the manifest):

Quote
Tweet from SSL:
Thumbs up! TELKOM-4 is progressing through SSL’s Palo Alto factory on schedule.



Telkom 4 has a C-Band payload with 60 transponders, 36 for the Southeast Asia market and 24 for the Indian market.  It is using the SSL 1300 bus and will be positioned at 108 degrees.  Telkom 4 is a replacement for Telkom 1, which failed on August 25, 2017 before its planned retirement in 2022.

Quote
SSL SELECTED AS WINNER OF PROCUREMENT FOR COMMUNICATIONS SATELLITE TO TELKOM, INDONESIA’S LARGEST TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND NETWORK PROVIDER

PALO ALTO, Calif. – December 30, 2015 — Space Systems Loral (SSL), a leading provider of commercial satellites, today announced that it was selected to provide a communications satellite to PT Telkom Indonesia (Persero) Tbk, the largest telecommunication and network provider in Indonesia. SSL was informed last week that it is the winner of the procurement of the TELKOM-4 satellite, which will be used for fixed satellite services in Indonesia, India, and Southeast Asia.

“Satellite services are particularly important in regions such as Indonesia where the population is spread over thousands of islands,” said John Celli, president of SSL. “For SSL, this is the third satellite for Indonesia that we will add to our backlog and we are honored to play such an important role in expanding the telecommunications infrastructure for the nation and the region.”

"Because our country consists of thousands of islands, Indonesia needs satellite technology,” said Alex J Sinaga, president director and chief operating officer of Telkom. “Satellite complements our other technologies, such as submarine cable, as the backbone that connects the islands of Indonesia.”

The satellite will be based on the highly reliable SSL 1300 platform, which provides the flexibility to support a broad range of applications and technology advances. It is designed to provide service for 15 years or more.

Quote
[detikInet Feb 16, 2017] SpaceX Launches Still Trust Telkom 4

Telkom still high reliance on Elon Musk's SpaceX owned satellite launch Telkom 4, despite a little incident on a satellite explosion Facebook.
...
As planned, Telkom 4 later when it was launched with estimates in June 2018, will occupy the orbital slot 108 degrees longitude (BT). This satellite will replace one whose term Telkom remained active until 2022.

Quote
[detikInet Sep 11, 2017] Buyarnya Telkom 4 Satellite Plan on August 17, 2018

Telkom 4 satellite is planned to be launched on special day. Precisely on August 17, 2018. However, due to Telkom 1 satellite anomaly, the launch schedule may change.
...
"Specifically for Telkom 4, we have coordinated with the satellite manufacturer to be able to advance 60 days, but the manufacturing itself, the launch itself, we coordinate with the launcher, whether the queue can be advanced, if it can succeed, then Telkom 4 can go early," continued Alex .


Telkom 4 on Gunter's Space Page



Other SpaceX resources on NASASpaceflight:
   SpaceX News Articles (Recent)
   SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews)
   SpaceX Dragon Articles
   SpaceX Missions Section (with Launch Manifest and info on past and future missions)

   L2 SpaceX Section
« Last Edit: 08/11/2018 07:26 am by input~2 »

Offline Lar

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20 down isn't as (conceptually) far away as it was in 2013. or even 2016...
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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I guess I should start a mission thread for this one soon (although it's still 20+ spots down the manifest):

Quote
Tweet from SSL:
Thumbs up! TELKOM-4 is progressing through SSL’s Palo Alto factory on schedule.

Whew - I had to blow that photo up. For a minute there I thought some dude was hanging on to the upper right-hand edge of that bird with his butt protruding out...
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline shooter6947

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Whew - I had to blow that photo up. For a minute there I thought some dude was hanging on to the upper right-hand edge of that bird with his butt protruding out...
And now that you've made me see that, I can no longer un-see it . . .

Offline gongora

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I split some posts from the Manifest thread to start this mission thread.

Offline gongora

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An article mentions them trying to move the launch up to May.  Given the state of the SpaceX manifest that seems unlikely unless they're jumping in front of some other payloads, but maybe it will happen.

[CNN Indonesia] Telkom 4 Satellite Targeted to Launch in May 2018

Offline envy887

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An article mentions them trying to move the launch up to May.  Given the state of the SpaceX manifest that seems unlikely unless they're jumping in front of some other payloads, but maybe it will happen.

[CNN Indonesia] Telkom 4 Satellite Targeted to Launch in May 2018

Hard to tell context from Google Translate, but maybe they are trying to get on a used booster to launch sooner...

Quote
It is possible thanks to the Falcon 9 rocket that can fly repeatedly.


Offline gongora

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An article mentions them trying to move the launch up to May.  Given the state of the SpaceX manifest that seems unlikely unless they're jumping in front of some other payloads, but maybe it will happen.

[CNN Indonesia] Telkom 4 Satellite Targeted to Launch in May 2018

Hard to tell context from Google Translate, but maybe they are trying to get on a used booster to launch sooner...

Quote
It is possible thanks to the Falcon 9 rocket that can fly repeatedly.

They've had statements like that in many stories when talking about SpaceX, it doesn't necessarily mean anything for this flight.  (They could very well be reusing a booster to accelerate the schedule, I just wouldn't assume it from that line in the article.)

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Hmmm...

If the sat shows up at the cape by mid March then a launch in May is highly likely.

Think of SpaceX launch processing and launch at the Cape/KSC as a FIFO buffer. Launch dates are assigned once the sat reaches the local area for the beginning of launch processing. If it reaches the area before others that had prospective dates before it, it would launch before them. In the words of the AF 45th SW commander that SpaceX is all about go when ready. If Telkom 4 is the next sat ready then it would be the next sat launched.

Offline gongora

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Hmmm...

If the sat shows up at the cape by mid March then a launch in May is highly likely.

Think of SpaceX launch processing and launch at the Cape/KSC as a FIFO buffer. Launch dates are assigned once the sat reaches the local area for the beginning of launch processing. If it reaches the area before others that had prospective dates before it, it would launch before them. In the words of the AF 45th SW commander that SpaceX is all about go when ready. If Telkom 4 is the next sat ready then it would be the next sat launched.

No.  That is not true.  Until SpaceX catches up on their manifest (which will be another year) it can't become true.

Offline gongora

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[Antara News] Telkom 4 Satellite is launched May-August 2018
Quote
Telkom 4 satellite will be launched mid-May to August 2018 with SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket SpaceX space company from the United States.

Director of Network and IT Solution of PT Telkom Indonesia Tbk Zulhefi Abidin said in Jakarta on Thursday (18/1), Telkom 4 Satellite is targeted to be assembled and tested in March 2018.

"The launch has slots, schedule, schedule between May and August 2018, that's our slot, "he said.

This is the Google Translate version, so I wouldn't read too much into any particular word  ;)
« Last Edit: 01/18/2018 08:16 pm by gongora »

Offline Lar

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Hmmm...

If the sat shows up at the cape by mid March then a launch in May is highly likely.

Think of SpaceX launch processing and launch at the Cape/KSC as a FIFO buffer. Launch dates are assigned once the sat reaches the local area for the beginning of launch processing. If it reaches the area before others that had prospective dates before it, it would launch before them. In the words of the AF 45th SW commander that SpaceX is all about go when ready. If Telkom 4 is the next sat ready then it would be the next sat launched.

No.  That is not true.  Until SpaceX catches up on their manifest (which will be another year) it can't become true.

If a satellite isn't ready, it can't be launched... so there is SOME truth to this, any satellites that are ready to be launched would presumably go ahead of satellites that aren't even at the cape yet....
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline sewebster

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Hmmm...

If the sat shows up at the cape by mid March then a launch in May is highly likely.

Think of SpaceX launch processing and launch at the Cape/KSC as a FIFO buffer. Launch dates are assigned once the sat reaches the local area for the beginning of launch processing. If it reaches the area before others that had prospective dates before it, it would launch before them. In the words of the AF 45th SW commander that SpaceX is all about go when ready. If Telkom 4 is the next sat ready then it would be the next sat launched.

No.  That is not true.  Until SpaceX catches up on their manifest (which will be another year) it can't become true.

If a satellite isn't ready, it can't be launched... so there is SOME truth to this, any satellites that are ready to be launched would presumably go ahead of satellites that aren't even at the cape yet....

But wouldn't they purposefully not ship to the cape too far in advance?

Offline Ragmar

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Have we heard anything else from Telkom on if they've agreed to launch on a reused booster?

Have we heard anything else from Telkom on if they've agreed to launch on a reused booster?
Yes and they announced that way back in May 2017.
''President Director of Telkom, Alex J. Sinaga mentioned to CNN, “Investment in Telkom-4 will be cheaper as we use a reusable orbital rocket from SpaceX''
https://seasia.co/2017/05/01/indonesia-to-use-spacex-to-launch-next-satellite

Online PDZiemer

Have we heard anything else from Telkom on if they've agreed to launch on a reused booster?
Yes and they announced that way back in May 2017.
''President Director of Telkom, Alex J. Sinaga mentioned to CNN, “Investment in Telkom-4 will be cheaper as we use a reusable orbital rocket from SpaceX''
https://seasia.co/2017/05/01/indonesia-to-use-spacex-to-launch-next-satellite

That sounds to me like they are talking about the economics of Falcon 9 being reusable, not that they have agreed to fly on a reused core.  I don't think that this means that they won't, but this statement does not indicate to me that they will necessarily be on a flight proven booster.

Offline AncientU

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Have we heard anything else from Telkom on if they've agreed to launch on a reused booster?
Yes and they announced that way back in May 2017.
''President Director of Telkom, Alex J. Sinaga mentioned to CNN, “Investment in Telkom-4 will be cheaper as we use a reusable orbital rocket from SpaceX''
https://seasia.co/2017/05/01/indonesia-to-use-spacex-to-launch-next-satellite

That sounds to me like they are talking about the economics of Falcon 9 being reusable, not that they have agreed to fly on a reused core.  I don't think that this means that they won't, but this statement does not indicate to me that they will necessarily be on a flight proven booster.

Text seems to me like they are planning to use the reflown booster and discussing the savings realized.  May just be a translation/parsing issue of the word 'as.'  'If' would have been they are still deciding; 'since' would have been definitive in American English.  I think the message was the latter.
« Last Edit: 01/29/2018 08:23 pm by AncientU »
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Offline gongora

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A bunch of Indonesian articles today give the launch window as mid-July to August, which fits nicely with the late-July target reported by Ben Cooper.

Offline gongora

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A couple of articles today mention mid-August as the current date, citing comments from Finance Director of Telkom Indonesia Harry M. Zen.

http://industri.bisnis.com/read/20180428/101/789598/telkom-luncurkan-satelit-telkom-4-pada-agustus-2018
http://www.en.netralnews.com/news/business/read/20647/pt.telkom
..tlkm..prepares.capex.of.idr30.tln.to.strengthen.broadband.business
« Last Edit: 07/31/2018 06:08 pm by Chris Bergin »

Offline AlphaAdhito

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So, thats gonna be Block 5?

Offline vaporcobra

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So, thats gonna be Block 5?

After CRS-15, every orbital launch will be Block 5.

Offline ZachS09

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So, thats gonna be Block 5?

After CRS-15, every orbital launch will be Block 5.

Unless the Inflight Abort Test uses Core B1042, which is a Block 4 model.
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Offline lonestriker

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So, thats gonna be Block 5?

After CRS-15, every orbital launch will be Block 5.

Unless the Inflight Abort Test uses Core B1042, which is a Block 4 model.

That flight won't go orbital, so vaporcobra is correct still.

Offline ZachS09

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I understand that; however, I was making a statement based on the earlier model in general whether the plan was to go orbital or suborbital.
« Last Edit: 06/06/2018 02:31 am by ZachS09 »
Liftoff for St. Jude's! Go Dragon, Go Falcon, Godspeed Inspiration4!

Offline gongora

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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE (From SSL)

June 21, 2018

Maxar’s SSL ships first of three advanced communications satellites scheduled to launch on the SpaceX Falcon 9 this summer

Commercially driven advances help SSL customers to connect people and transform lives around the world

Palo Alto, Calif. – SSL, a Maxar Technologies company (formerly MacDonald, Dettwiler and Associates Ltd.) (NYSE: MAXR, TSX: MAXR), today announced it shipped the first of three satellites that SSL will deliver to the SpaceX launch base at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida over the next month. Driven by commercial advances, the three satellites will bring communications capability to connect people and transform lives around the globe.

Telstar 19 VANTAGE, an advanced high throughput satellite (HTS) built for Telesat, one of the world’s leading satellite operators, marks the 50th SSL-built communications satellite to launch this decade. It arrived safely at the launch base this week for a launch scheduled next month.

Two more SSL communications satellites are scheduled to ship to SpaceX launch base over the next month including a second HTS for Telesat, Telstar 18 VANTAGE, and the Merah Putih satellite (previously known as Telkom-4), for Indonesia’s largest telecommunication and network provider, PT Telkom Indonesia (Persero) Tbk.

“SSL has a long legacy of leveraging its commercial mindset to provide satellite operators with spacecraft systems that address their requirements and enable global transformation,” said Dario Zamarian, group president, SSL. “The cadence this month of shipping out three satellites for launch demonstrates our ongoing market leadership and commitment to quality, reliability, and performance.”

Telstar 19 VANTAGE

Telstar 19 VANTAGE is one of a new generation of Telesat spacecraft designed to serve today’s bandwidth intensive applications. It will support a range of services, including advanced broadband connectivity for consumer, enterprise and mobility users across the Americas and Atlantic from its prime orbital location of 63 degrees West, the same location used today by Telesat’s Telstar 14R.

Like all Telesat VANTAGE satellites, Telstar 19 VANTAGE combines broad regional beams and powerful HTS spot beams enabling customers to maximize throughput and spectral efficiency while optimizing network performance. Its Ka-band HTS capacity will serve Telesat customers operating in Northern Canada, the Caribbean, the North Atlantic Ocean, and South America. Additional Ku-band HTS spot beams will serve growing South American markets in Brazil and the Andean region. Telstar 19 VANTAGE will also bring new Ku-band broadbeam capacity over the North Atlantic Ocean enhancing Telesat’s coverage of this important mobility market.

Telstar 18 VANTAGE

Telstar 18 VANTAGE, the third HTS in Telesat’s global fleet, will be located at 138 degrees East, an ideal position for connecting Asia to the Americas. It will replace and expand on the capabilities of Telesat’s Telstar 18 satellite through its extensive C-band coverage of Asia, its Ku-band HTS spot beams over Indonesia and Malaysia, and its six additional Ku-band regional beams. These high performance beams will enable Telstar 18 VANTAGE to meet growing demand for mobility, enterprise networks and telecom services across the Asia region. As previously announced, Telesat has partnered with APT Satellite of Hong Kong in the design and procurement of this spacecraft, which APT calls Apstar-5C. 

“Telesat has worked closely with SSL and the Maxar family of companies for many years and we are pleased to have collaborated with them on our newest Telstar VANTAGE high throughput satellites,” said Dan Goldberg, President and CEO of Telesat. “These state-of-the-art spacecraft are going to provide important competitive advantages for our customers across the Americas and Asia. It’s great news that Telstar 19 VANTAGE is now at the launch base and that Telstar 18 VANTAGE is nearly finished and in the queue to ship.”

Merah Putih

Merah Putih, a name which represents the red and white of the Indonesian flag, will be integrated into Telkom’s greater telecommunications network to provide service throughout the 17 thousand islands of the Indonesian archipelago, as well as India and other parts of South and Southeast Asia. Satellite forms the telecommunications backbone that connects Indonesia, along with other technologies, such as submarine cable.

Merah Putih, which was completed ahead of schedule, will replace Telkom-1, at 108 degrees East, where it will expand on Telkom’s coverage to serve new markets. Its all C-band payload will enhance both internet and telephone service for populations in remote regions and offload backhaul for cellular service.

“Satellite plays a vital role in our telecommunications infrastructure,” said Mr. Mr. Zulhelfi Abidin, Chief Technology Officer of Telkom. “SSL has been an excellent spacecraft supplier and has completed the satellite construction ahead of schedule. We look forward to traveling to Florida to see the satellite launch later this summer.”

I did a Google search on Telkom 4 yesterday and was wondering why I got an article about a red and white satellite.

Offline ChrisGebhardt

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HAWTHORNE, Calif. – June 29, 2018. Media accreditation is now open for SpaceX's Merah Putih (Telkom 4) mission from Space Launch Complex 40 (SLC-40) at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida. The launch is targeted for no earlier than August.   
 
A Falcon 9 rocket will deliver Merah Putih to a geostationary transfer orbit (GTO).

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Given the current capabilities of the Eastern Range, safety procedures, etc., what's the minimum amount of time allowed between a launch of a Falcon 9 from SLC-40 and a Delta-IV (Heavy) from SLC-37?
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Offline vaporcobra

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Given the current capabilities of the Eastern Range, safety procedures, etc., what's the minimum amount of time allowed between a launch of a Falcon 9 from SLC-40 and a Delta-IV (Heavy) from SLC-37?

Range-wise, CCAFS was unwilling to do a SpaceX and ULA launch within 24 hours of each other. Maybe that's changed, but it's a good baseline.

Offline guckyfan

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Given the current capabilities of the Eastern Range, safety procedures, etc., what's the minimum amount of time allowed between a launch of a Falcon 9 from SLC-40 and a Delta-IV (Heavy) from SLC-37?

Range-wise, CCAFS was unwilling to do a SpaceX and ULA launch within 24 hours of each other. Maybe that's changed, but it's a good baseline.

Wasn't it the other way around? The range was willing but ULA was not happy with it. Or do I remember wrong?

Edit: Fixed quote
« Last Edit: 06/30/2018 06:22 am by guckyfan »

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Well ULA had an Atlas at the pad with a sensitive and important payload atop of it, so it made sense for all not to take the possible risk from launching from a pad so close, especially if there had been a falcon launch issue, and that who knows what effects even a successful launch might have on that payload.

Offline High Bay 4

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The question is if Merah Putih doesn’t get off the ground by 8/4 does SpaceX have to stand down and PSP get Range priority?

Offline hopalong

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The question is if Merah Putih doesn’t get off the ground by 8/4 does SpaceX have to stand down and PSP get Range priority?

I would say PSP get priority as they would have booked that date first, also it is more launch window sensitive than Merah Putih.
« Last Edit: 06/30/2018 02:38 pm by hopalong »

Offline ChrisGebhardt

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The question is if Merah Putih doesn’t get off the ground by 8/4 does SpaceX have to stand down and PSP get Range priority?

I would say PSP get priority as they would have booked that date first, also it is more launch window sensitive than Merah Putih.

To answer the 3 questions:

1. Time between two launches of different rockets (i.e. not 2 Falcon 9s or a Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy) is max 36hrs to reconfigure the range between a Falcon 9 and an Atlas V or Delta IV.  Can be done in less time because of the Falcons AFTS.

2. It was ULA that nixed the two launches within ~24hrs.  Air Force wanted it; SpaceX wanted it.  ULA did NOT want it only because Falcon 9 would have launched first and ULA didn't want their rocket on the while an F9 launched.  So it didn't happen because of that.

3. If SpaceX has Range for 8/2 and PSP has Range for 8/4, then PSP has Range priority for the dates ULA has requested for it, likely 8/4 and prime and 8/5 as backup.  This is how the Range has always worked.  If delays happen and Falcon 9 and Delta IVH end up wanting the same day, negotiations between SpaceX, ULA, NASA, and Range will happen to see who gets the slot.  But as ULA and SpaceX and NASA say routinely, "we all play nice with this because next time it could be us trying convince the other to give up a slot."
« Last Edit: 06/30/2018 03:38 pm by ChrisGebhardt »

Offline zubenelgenubi

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To follow-up on the PSP launch window:
PSP has a limited planetary launch window, to make its first delta-V flyby (of seven) of Venus.  According to the PSP project web site, http://parkersolarprobe.jhuapl.edu/ , that window is July 31-August 19.  Launch was delayed from July 31 to August 4.
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Offline Comga

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Given the current capabilities of the Eastern Range, safety procedures, etc., what's the minimum amount of time allowed between a launch of a Falcon 9 from SLC-40 and a Delta-IV (Heavy) from SLC-37?

The post previous to yours is titled “August 2018”  and you changed it to “August 2, 2018”.
Where did we learn of the specific day?
Was that from Ben Cooper (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43418.msg1834312#msg1834312)?

edit/gongora: fixed url
« Last Edit: 06/30/2018 06:36 pm by gongora »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline gongora

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The post previous to yours is titled “August 2018”  and you changed it to “August 2, 2018”.
Where did we learn of the specific day?
Was that from Ben Cooper (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43418.msg1834312#msg1834312)?

I changed it, based on Ben Cooper's information (which publicly confirmed other sources of information).

Offline ChrisGebhardt

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The post previous to yours is titled “August 2018”  and you changed it to “August 2, 2018”.
Where did we learn of the specific day?
Was that from Ben Cooper (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43418.msg1834312#msg1834312)?

I changed it, based on Ben Cooper's information (which publicly confirmed other sources of information).

The FCC applications requested a day advancement of the launch to 2 Aug 2018

Offline Ragmar

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Any idea what booster this could go on?

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Any idea what booster this could go on?
At this moment all seems to indicate that this one will fly on 1049.
This core
Likely will hit the road as soon as 1047 successfully launches.

Offline soltasto

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Any idea what booster this could go on?
At this moment all seems to indicate that this one will fly on 1049.
This core
Likely will hit the road as soon as 1047 successfully launches.

It could as well be already at the cape. It was on the McGregor test stand on Jun 20 and it was probably tested a few days later.

Offline mn

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To follow-up on the PSP launch window:
PSP has a limited planetary launch window, to make its first delta-V flyby (of seven) of Venus.  According to the PSP project web site, http://parkersolarprobe.jhuapl.edu/ , that window is July 31-August 19.  Launch was delayed from July 31 to August 4.

PSP now August 6th

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=37070.msg1838883#msg1838883

Offline gongora

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Article today from Indonesian source:
https://inet.detik.com/telecommunication/d-4129149/satelit-merah-putih-segera-meroket-bareng-spacex
Quote
"The Red and White Satellite has been completed on June 25 and has been shipped from SSL in San Francisco to Cape Canaveral in Florida," said Hendra Gunawan, Coordinator of the Red and White Satellite Project at Telkom Tower, Jakarta.

Satellite shipments from the plant are done by land using trucks through 10 cities in the United States, as San Francisco and Florida are end-to-end.
...
If there is no cross, the launch schedule of the Red and White Satellite is on August 4th. Then arrive at the orbit slot 108 degrees east longitude on August 15, 2018.
...
The total weight is 5.8 tons where 3.8 tons of it is fuel.

They may be reporting the launch date in their local time, which makes it hard to determine exactly what that would mean (although it's hard to turn Aug. 4 into Aug. 2 even with an 11 hour time difference across the date line.)

Offline envy887

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Article today from Indonesian source:
https://inet.detik.com/telecommunication/d-4129149/satelit-merah-putih-segera-meroket-bareng-spacex
Quote
"The Red and White Satellite has been completed on June 25 and has been shipped from SSL in San Francisco to Cape Canaveral in Florida," said Hendra Gunawan, Coordinator of the Red and White Satellite Project at Telkom Tower, Jakarta.

Satellite shipments from the plant are done by land using trucks through 10 cities in the United States, as San Francisco and Florida are end-to-end.
...
If there is no cross, the launch schedule of the Red and White Satellite is on August 4th. Then arrive at the orbit slot 108 degrees east longitude on August 15, 2018.
...
The total weight is 5.8 tons where 3.8 tons of it is fuel.

They may be reporting the launch date in their local time, which makes it hard to determine exactly what that would mean (although it's hard to turn Aug. 4 into Aug. 2 even with an 11 hour time difference across the date line.)

So at 5.8 tons (metric tons, presumably), this is another satellite that is above SpaceX's advertised 5.5 t to GTO. Any news on the target orbit? Another subsync insertion, or does Block 5 have the legs to put this to GTO-1800 or better and still land the booster?

Offline AUricle

"So at 5.8 tons (metric tons, presumably), this is another satellite that is above SpaceX's advertised 5.5 t to GTO. Any news on the target orbit? Another subsync insertion, or does Block 5 have the legs to put this to GTO-1800 or better and still land the booster?"


Seems to me, the capability must be there. Even if they have to use the far downrange barge recovery, as they used the other night when they lofted a much heavier load. JRTI has left port for positioning in the Atlantic.
As far as I know, they don't plan on expending any Block 5's. So every flight should have enough extra fuel to land the booster......somewhere ;) 
« Last Edit: 07/23/2018 05:19 pm by AUricle »

Offline Alexphysics

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JRTI is on the Pacific Ocean going to catch B1048 from the Iridium 7 mission, OCISLY is on the East coast. From what we've seen from Telstar 19V, it seems that the Falcon 9 could send a little bit more than 5.5 metric tons to GTO while being reusable. Anyways, 5.8 metric tons is not too much above 5.5 so if they have to place it in subsynch, it will be close to be a standard GTO. They could always push a little bit the margins for the recovery of the booster. B1047 had a lot of fuel left for the reentry and the landing burns even though it was a GTO mission.

Offline cbarnes199

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After reading through the information is was surprised that the Merah Putih satellite was all C-Band.  Isn't C-Band most being phased out?

Offline Tomness

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"So at 5.8 tons (metric tons, presumably), this is another satellite that is above SpaceX's advertised 5.5 t to GTO. Any news on the target orbit? Another subsync insertion, or does Block 5 have the legs to put this to GTO-1800 or better and still land the booster?"


That's what I get out it,  but it may up to  SSL if SpaceX comes back and says hey from this profile and numbers we got from the last launch. we can do X instead of Y save you some fuel at no cost to you. SSL will have to weigh pros vs the cons.

Offline John Alan

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I'll put in a GTO-1925 subsync guess as to where this one ends up in orbit...  ;)

SSL has got this - build it to fit ASDS F9 for lowest cost to orbit - thing down...  8)

And SpaceX is not going to push the landing margin too tight, in my opinion...  :)
« Last Edit: 07/23/2018 10:24 pm by John Alan »

Online TrueBlueWitt

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I'll put in a GTO-1925 subsync guess as to where this one ends up in orbit...  ;)

SSL has got this - build it to fit ASDS F9 for lowest cost to orbit - thing down...  8)

And SpaceX is not going to push the landing margin too tight, in my opinion...  :)

It's not about whether they can land it on tighter margin, it's about how much more damage(lost lives) it would absorb. At least that's my guess.
« Last Edit: 07/23/2018 11:44 pm by TrueBlueWitt »

Offline rahmandwi

After reading through the information is was surprised that the Merah Putih satellite was all C-Band.  Isn't C-Band most being phased out?

Perhaps C-Band still being used because C-Band is more robust against bad weather (like heavy rain), since Indonesia is in tropical zone. I think Ku-band (used by most of satellite pay TV companies) is less able to deal with such bad weather, maybe that's the reason why Indonesian satellites still mostly use C-Band.
« Last Edit: 07/24/2018 04:06 am by rahmandwi »

Offline ChrisC

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After reading through the information is was surprised that the Merah Putih satellite was all C-Band.  Isn't C-Band most being phased out?

As a satcom professional:  GROOOANNNNN

The FCC is trying to steal some of the C-band spectrum that has been used by satellite operators for literally half a century.  Perhaps they would like you to think it is being phased out!  The satellite industry has responded with a compromise proposal.

As rahmandwi said, indeed C-band is much better at drillling through atmospheric moisture.  Lower frequencies go through things better than high frequencies, so C-band goes through moisture better than Ku-band, just like FM radio signals go right though walls but GPS signals don't so much.

Besides southeast Asia, C-band is also heavily used in Latin America.  In fact, LatAm also uses circular polarization for some links, unlike the linear polarization used pretty much everywhere else, because it also survives the rain better.

Turn on your TV and go to the regular channels (what we call "linear television").  Flip through the channels.  Literally every single one is delivered by C-band satellite.  It's the bedrock of TV distribution.  And yes, you millennial whippersnappers, loads of people still watch linear TV ...
« Last Edit: 07/24/2018 03:21 am by ChrisC »
PSA #1: EST does NOT mean "Eastern Time".  Use "Eastern" or "ET" instead, all year round, and avoid this common error.  Google "EST vs EDT".
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Offline vaporcobra

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Launch photographer Ben Cooper confirmed the push to August 4 on his website. NET August 4, 1:19AM EDT (05:19 UTC).
http://www.launchphotography.com/Delta_4_Atlas_5_Falcon_9_Launch_Viewing.html

Offline scr00chy

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Do we have a new date for static fire?

Offline cbarnes199

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After reading through the information is was surprised that the Merah Putih satellite was all C-Band.  Isn't C-Band most being phased out?

As a satcom professional:  GROOOANNNNN

The FCC is trying to steal some of the C-band spectrum that has been used by satellite operators for literally half a century.  Perhaps they would like you to think it is being phased out!  The satellite industry has responded with a compromise proposal.

As rahmandwi said, indeed C-band is much better at drillling through atmospheric moisture.  Lower frequencies go through things better than high frequencies, so C-band goes through moisture better than Ku-band, just like FM radio signals go right though walls but GPS signals don't so much.

Besides southeast Asia, C-band is also heavily used in Latin America.  In fact, LatAm also uses circular polarization for some links, unlike the linear polarization used pretty much everywhere else, because it also survives the rain better.

Turn on your TV and go to the regular channels (what we call "linear television").  Flip through the channels.  Literally every single one is delivered by C-band satellite.  It's the bedrock of TV distribution.  And yes, you millennial whippersnappers, loads of people still watch linear TV ...

Apologies for inducing a groan.  You points are valid and well taken.

I was basing my comment on one objective bit of information and one subjective. 

The objective bit comes from looking at active geostationary satellites listed as active on http:\\satbeams.com . Of the 565 active satellites around 274 have Ku band and only 164 have C band transponders.  And looking at the last 10 satellites launched only 3 had C-band transponders.

The subjective information is driving around the US seeing little ku-band antennas everywhere and only seeing a few c-band antennas not rusting and pointed at the ground. 

It is a great point that C-Band is better through lots of moisture but my reading indicated that ku was overcoming that with the higher power it is allowed to use.

Finally I would like go on record as not a millennia,l since I received my engineering degree in 1985 and to be a millennial I would have to been busy being born around that time rather than graduating college.  :) Not that there is anything wrong with millennials,  :) My son is a pretty good one.

Offline ZachF

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"So at 5.8 tons (metric tons, presumably), this is another satellite that is above SpaceX's advertised 5.5 t to GTO. Any news on the target orbit? Another subsync insertion, or does Block 5 have the legs to put this to GTO-1800 or better and still land the booster?"


Seems to me, the capability must be there. Even if they have to use the far downrange barge recovery, as they used the other night when they lofted a much heavier load. JRTI has left port for positioning in the Atlantic.
As far as I know, they don't plan on expending any Block 5's. So every flight should have enough extra fuel to land the booster......somewhere ;)

If Block 5 was able to put a 7,075kg sat to GTO-2275, then it should be able to push a 5,800kg sat to GTO-1900 (~28,000km apogee), assuming the same margin.
« Last Edit: 07/24/2018 04:32 pm by ZachF »
artist, so take opinions expressed above with a well-rendered grain of salt...
https://www.instagram.com/artzf/

Offline OccasionalTraveller

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So at 5.8 tons (metric tons, presumably), this is another satellite that is above SpaceX's advertised 5.5 t to GTO. Any news on the target orbit? Another subsync insertion, or does Block 5 have the legs to put this to GTO-1800 or better and still land the booster?

With a dry mass of 2 tonnes and 3.8 tonnes of fuel, this launch will be 34.4% payload. For comparison, Telstar 19V was about 42.8% payload. To me, that says it will be sub-synchronous.

Sent from my Swift 2 Plus using Tapatalk


Offline ChrisC

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The subjective information is driving around the US seeing little ku-band antennas everywhere and only seeing a few c-band antennas not rusting and pointed at the ground.

You're talking about personal, home dishes, and in this case the bigger C-band dishes you've seen are what we affectionally call BUDs or Big Ugly Dishes.  The free-to-air C-band signals are indeed mostly gone.  But I assure you that C-band is still heavily used, just not straight to homes.  And honestly that was never its main purpose, but people had set up those BUDs because they discovered they could pull in stuff for free (including "wildcat feeds", google it).

C-band antennas are typically found at full blown teleports.  In the case of the TV business, these will be at the programmer uplinks (e.g. ESPN, Viacom, HBO, etc.) or at the cable headend facilities (Comcast, Charter, DirecTV etc.) or at the satellite operators' own facilities (Intelsat, SES, etc.)   These facilities are generally well hidden from public view, or are at very remote locations far from cities.  And by the way, they are fed by monstrous fiber connectivity, triply or even quadruply redundant.  A truckload of money passes through those facilities.
« Last Edit: 07/24/2018 09:40 pm by ChrisC »
PSA #1: EST does NOT mean "Eastern Time".  Use "Eastern" or "ET" instead, all year round, and avoid this common error.  Google "EST vs EDT".
PSA #2: It's and its: know the difference and quietly impress grammar pedants.  Google "angry flower its" .

Offline ngilmore

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I believe this is an example of what ChrisC is talking about - I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm wrong  ;D - these teleports are quite common in Los Angeles...

This one is across the street from Sony Picture Studios.
« Last Edit: 07/24/2018 10:03 pm by ngilmore »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
Busy August ahead: Launch hazard area issued for upcoming #SpaceX Telkom-4 (Merah Putih) launch from CCAFS. In effect from 2315 ET on 8/3 until 0315 ET on 8/4 (0315 to 0715 UTC). ASDS landing.

NASA+ULA, meanwhile, still targeting Parker Solar Probe for 8/6 [now 8/11] on Delta IV Heavy.

https://twitter.com/emrekelly/status/1021832566209433605
« Last Edit: 07/25/2018 01:51 am by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline envy887

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Quote
Busy August ahead: Launch hazard area issued for upcoming #SpaceX Telkom-4 (Merah Putih) launch from CCAFS. In effect from 2315 ET on 8/3 until 0315 ET on 8/4 (0315 to 0715 UTC). ASDS landing.

NASA+ULA, meanwhile, still targeting Parker Solar Probe for 8/6 [now 11/6] on Delta IV Heavy.

https://twitter.com/emrekelly/status/1021832566209433605

Should be 8/11 for PSP, not 11/6.

Offline Comga

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Quote
Busy August ahead: Launch hazard area issued for upcoming #SpaceX Telkom-4 (Merah Putih) launch from CCAFS. In effect from 2315 ET on 8/3 until 0315 ET on 8/4 (0315 to 0715 UTC). ASDS landing.

NASA+ULA, meanwhile, still targeting Parker Solar Probe for 8/6 [now 11/6] on Delta IV Heavy.

https://twitter.com/emrekelly/status/1021832566209433605

Should be 8/11 for PSP, not 11/6.

August 11, to be more clear, as posted here in the PSP thread.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline ChrisC

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I believe this is an example of what ChrisC is talking about - I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm wrong  ;D - these teleports are quite common in Los Angeles...  This one is across the street from Sony Picture Studios.

Eeeyup.  I have stories about that teleport.  It's a tiny urban location.  Here's another one a bit more luxuriously spread out, about 100 miles east of that Culver City site.  If you go to 3D view on that Google Maps display, you'll see that it actually has a berm built around it, to further shield it from stray RF radiation (and the occasional bullet) from "civilization."  That's in addition to being nestled in a small valley.

Note the one antenna at the left edge of the site, pointing to the left.  It's pointing nearly due west, hitting a satellite over the Pacific that can see both Asia and North America, and thus serves as the transoceanic link.  Traffic will typically be going in both directions through that link, e.g. news+sports raw feeds heading east, and news+sports networks heading west.  The remaining antennas, pointing south-ish or southeast-ish, are all aimed at North American cable birds, which are just rebroadcasting those TV uplinks I talked about.  And aaaalllll of it in C-band.

For those annoyed by this continuing C-band chit chat, I'm sure it will soon be time to split this thread into updates + discussion, especially since this mission is now the next batter in the box :)
« Last Edit: 07/25/2018 09:15 pm by ChrisC »
PSA #1: EST does NOT mean "Eastern Time".  Use "Eastern" or "ET" instead, all year round, and avoid this common error.  Google "EST vs EDT".
PSA #2: It's and its: know the difference and quietly impress grammar pedants.  Google "angry flower its" .

Offline AlphaAdhito

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Excuse me for asking, but is there any news about fairing recovery on the next flight (the Merah Putih launch)?

Offline Jcc

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Excuse me for asking, but is there any news about fairing recovery on the next flight (the Merah Putih launch)?

They don't have a fairing catcher on the east coast, but they will probably do a soft landing and fish them out of the water.

Offline mazen hesham

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This Launch will reuse the first block 5 B1046 According to Teslarati so not a new booster as previously thought.
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-first-falcon-9-block-5-reuse-drone-ship-turnaround-record/

Offline ZachS09

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This Launch will reuse the first block 5 B1046 According to Teslarati so not a new booster as previously thought.
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-first-falcon-9-block-5-reuse-drone-ship-turnaround-record/

If Merah Putih launches on time, the turnaround time between this mission and Bangabandhu 1 will be 84 days, 9 hours, and 5 minutes.

The record currently stands with Core B1045: 71 days, 10 hours, and 51 minutes.
« Last Edit: 07/27/2018 06:48 pm by ZachS09 »
Liftoff for St. Jude's! Go Dragon, Go Falcon, Godspeed Inspiration4!

Offline envy887

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This Launch will reuse the first block 5 B1046 According to Teslarati so not a new booster as previously thought.
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-first-falcon-9-block-5-reuse-drone-ship-turnaround-record/

If Merah Putih launches on time, the turnaround time between this mission and Bangabandhu 1 will be 84 days, 9 hours, and 5 minutes.

The record currently stands with Core B1045: 71 days, 10 hours, and 51 minutes.

The article is referring to drone ship turnaround, not booster turnaround.

Offline RocketLover0119

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Booster for this mission will be B1046, fastest turnaround of a droneship, and the 2nd fastest turnaround of a booster!!!

https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-first-falcon-9-block-5-reuse-drone-ship-turnaround-record/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

"More important than the schedule, perhaps, is the fact that it would appear that SpaceX intends to reuse the first Block 5 booster (B1046) for this particular launch. "

"Meanwhile, an unmistakeable Block 5 booster – with black interstage and octaweb coverings – was spotted being transported through Cape Canaveral Air Force Station (CCAFS) earlier this week, just after Falcon 9 B1047 launched (July 21 EDT) and freed up space for another booster inside the horizontal integration facility (HIF) at Pad 40. Given that only one Block 5 booster has been recovered on the East Coast and that B1047 was still out at sea earlier this week, the sooty booster traveling through CCAFS thus has to have been B1046, and it was making a beeline for LC-40."

Pic below I've never seen before of B1046 in transit to refurbishment.
« Last Edit: 07/27/2018 10:02 pm by RocketLover0119 »
"The Starship has landed"

Offline ChrisGebhardt

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Booster for this mission will be B1046...

That would be nice, but isn’t B1049 here at the Cape, too?  Wondering how seeing it going toward SLc-40 means it is being used for Telkom-4 in just over a week?
« Last Edit: 07/28/2018 02:18 am by gongora »

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That would be nice, but isn’t B1049 here at the Cape, too?  Wondering how seeing it going toward SLc-40 means it is being used for Telkom-4 in just over a week?

The article says a sooty B5 booster was spotted traveling through CCAFS. If so, then the only booster that could be is 1046.
Astronomer & launch photographer

Offline ChrisGebhardt

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That would be nice, but isn’t B1049 here at the Cape, too?  Wondering how seeing it going toward SLc-40 means it is being used for Telkom-4 in just over a week?

The article says a sooty B5 booster was spotted traveling through CCAFS. If so, then the only booster that could be is 1046.

I understand that.  But that’s not what I was saying.  I was saying that the article says that because B1046 is going to the HIF, it must be for Telkom-4.  But B1049 is also at the Cape.  So I’m wondering why it isn’t for Telkom?  Getting legs onto B-1046 and hauling it to pad for static fire in time seems mighty tight.
« Last Edit: 07/27/2018 10:10 pm by ChrisGebhardt »

Offline oiorionsbelt

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  And I think more than one booster can fit in the HIF at LC-40.

From the article.

Quote
To lay out the foundation of this claim, it’s known that SpaceX’s CCAFS Pad 40 integration facilities are only capable of fitting one booster and the strongback (transporter/erector/launcher, TEL) at a time, evidenced both by sourced comments and views inside the hangar.
« Last Edit: 07/27/2018 10:11 pm by oiorionsbelt »

Offline cppetrie

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They have also reportedly done pretty extensive inspection of 1046, more perhaps than even a refurbished block 4 might get, as part of testing how the block 5 modifications performed.

Offline vaporcobra

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They have also reportedly done pretty extensive inspection of 1046, more perhaps than even a refurbished block 4 might get, as part of testing how the block 5 modifications performed.

Yep. I was fairly shocked to see B1046 rolling into 40's HIF, I was very much under the assumption that B1049 would do the honors for Telkom. But I suppose it isn't unreasonable that Telsat requested new boosters for both launches, or at least didn't want to be the first Block 5 reuse.

Either way, we'll find out on Tues/Wed.

Offline Nehkara

Took a look at a few pictures of SLC-40's hangar.  Doesn't look like you could fit more than one core in there.  I understand why Teslarati is making this assumption.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30700.msg1019166#msg1019166


Offline Michael Baylor

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I understand that.  But that’s not what I was saying.  I was saying that the article says that because B1046 is going to the HIF, it must be for Telkom-4.  But B1049 is also at the Cape.  So I’m wondering why it isn’t for Telkom?  Getting legs onto B-1046 and hauling it to pad for static fire in time seems mighty tight.
The one thing that could explain this is that Telstar 18V was originally scheduled to launch before Merah Putih. Therefore, they may have shipped B1049 to the Cape under the impression that it would be needed for a launch in early August.

Offline vaporcobra

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Took a look at a few pictures of SLC-40's hangar.  Doesn't look like you could fit more than one core in there.  I understand why Teslarati is making this assumption.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30700.msg1019166#msg1019166

I totally understand the skepticism, Chris. I'm skeptical as well. But I saw B1046 heading towards the LC40 HIF, and there really is no other indoor location at complex to store it for two weeks. Would be a very weird time and place to move a booster for a launch two weeks after the next.

Offline glanmor05

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If correct, am I right in saying that this flight wouldn't count towards the "7 flights without a significant design change" for 1st crew? It has the old pressure vessels yeah?
"Through struggles, to the stars."

Offline Tomness

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If correct, am I right in saying that this flight wouldn't count towards the "7 flights without a significant design change" for 1st crew? It has the old pressure vessels yeah?
Correct, DM-1 will have the first locked design and start the 7 flights including in- fight abort.

Offline glanmor05

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On another thread, I was told that the last 2 flights of Block5 had the new COPVs and therefore had begun the count of 7 flights? I.e count doesn’t start with DM1.
"Through struggles, to the stars."

Offline gongora

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Based on discussion at the ASAP meeting this week it isn't clear whether or not the Merlin 1D Block 5 engine design will be frozen yet.  It hasn't made it through qualification yet and may need more tweaks.

Offline cscott

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Based on discussion at the ASAP meeting this week it isn't clear whether or not the Merlin 1D Block 5 engine design will be frozen yet.  It hasn't made it through qualification yet and may need more tweaks.
Does qualification for SpaceX include reuse? I could imagine them wanting to validate "rapid reusability" of the block 5 engine and making tweaks until that goal is met...

Offline ehb

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If correct, am I right in saying that this flight wouldn't count towards the "7 flights without a significant design change" for 1st crew? It has the old pressure vessels yeah?
Correct, DM-1 will have the first locked design and start the 7 flights including in- fight abort.

Based on discussion at the ASAP meeting this week it isn't clear whether or not the Merlin 1D Block 5 engine design will be frozen yet.  It hasn't made it through qualification yet and may need more tweaks.
Does qualification for SpaceX include reuse? I could imagine them wanting to validate "rapid reusability" of the block 5 engine and making tweaks until that goal is met...
I'm reading that DM-1 may have to wait until the Merlin 1D block 5 engine can be "frozen" & they are sufficiently confident to "lock" the design.
Hopefully they are close, but it could result in delays to DM-1.

Offline gongora

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If correct, am I right in saying that this flight wouldn't count towards the "7 flights without a significant design change" for 1st crew? It has the old pressure vessels yeah?
Correct, DM-1 will have the first locked design and start the 7 flights including in- fight abort.

Based on discussion at the ASAP meeting this week it isn't clear whether or not the Merlin 1D Block 5 engine design will be frozen yet.  It hasn't made it through qualification yet and may need more tweaks.
Does qualification for SpaceX include reuse? I could imagine them wanting to validate "rapid reusability" of the block 5 engine and making tweaks until that goal is met...
I'm reading that DM-1 may have to wait until the Merlin 1D block 5 engine can be "frozen" & they are sufficiently confident to "lock" the design.
Hopefully they are close, but it could result in delays to DM-1.

There is more information in the Dragon 2 thread, and further discussion of the Commercial Crew stuff should move to that thread:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41016.msg1842042#msg1842042

Offline Wolfram66

Have we had word on causes of the leftward creep of this launch schedule? I know NET means NET, but 5 days is more than usual w/o a GSE, ASDS or booster problem

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Well, is this true?

https://twitter.com/EmreKelly/status/1024353070921207809?s=09
 
Seems like a further delay

Offline ChrisGebhardt

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Well, is this true?

https://twitter.com/EmreKelly/status/1024353070921207809?s=09
 
Seems like a further delay


The image you attached is for the 7 August attempt -- which was been reported on this thread (name change) and the main updates thread yesterday.

Offline envy887

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We have venting! Was taken an hour go, which is over normal load time, so it's possible a reload could have occurred.

Also note (may be because of the venting) but I can't see any soot, we sure this is B1046.2?


https://mobile.twitter.com/aWildLupiDragon/status/1025033454965145600/photo/1

The LOX tank immediately below the grid fins looks very much darker than the upper stage. At least it does to me. I think that's a sooty booster.

Offline Lupi

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http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/merahputihpresskit.pdf

looks like the presskit's out!

official confirmation it's the one that launched banghabangdu? check.
Anything about the whole weird static fire test where they topped it off, stood down for like an hour, and then refueled for the static fire? doen't look like it.
« Last Edit: 08/06/2018 03:37 am by Lupi »

Offline ChrisC

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William Graham's feature article!
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/08/spacex-falcon-9-merah-putih-block-5-reflight/

Just wanted to say that this article is a masterpiece.  It's beautifully written, and carefully explains the entire Falcon 9 system and history.
PSA #1: EST does NOT mean "Eastern Time".  Use "Eastern" or "ET" instead, all year round, and avoid this common error.  Google "EST vs EDT".
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Offline WindnWar

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Given the payload is 5800 kilos and they are landing the first stage again, any idea what sorta orbit we are looking at this time? Slightly subsync?

Offline Alexphysics

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Probably something like GTO-1900, much closer to standard than Telstar 19V

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SpaceX image of F9-61 on the pad.

 - Ed Kyle

What are those markings on the middle of the core?!
« Last Edit: 08/06/2018 09:38 pm by Jakusb »

Offline freda

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SpaceX image of F9-61 on the pad.

 - Ed Kyle

What are those markings on the middle of the core?!


Ha.  You beat me to it.  :-)  Just before I clicked to post the same question, I saw you had.
Looks like surface cleaning, probably to mount new sensors... or to re-rivet some internal structure?

Offline abaddon

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On previous flights, there were lines drawn in the door to check welds, but these look different.

Offline marsbase

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What are those markings on the middle of the core?!



Clearly a message in an alien alphabet.  Says "Take me to your leader".  I think they mean Elon. :)
« Last Edit: 08/06/2018 10:06 pm by marsbase »

Online Herb Schaltegger

SpaceX image of F9-61 on the pad.

 - Ed Kyle

What are those markings on the middle of the core?!


Ha.  You beat me to it.  :-)  Just before I clicked to post the same question, I saw you had.
Looks like surface cleaning, probably to mount new sensors... or to re-rivet some internal structure?

I rather doubt SpaceX is riveting internal components on a flown core.

Rather, I suspect those marked up areas might be places where SpaceX did some down-to-the-metal surface cleaning to enable NDT (non-destructive testing) as part of their post-flight/pre-reflight evaluations of the new Block 5 cores.
Ad astra per aspirin ...

Offline wannamoonbase

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SpaceX image of F9-61 on the pad.

 - Ed Kyle

What are those markings on the middle of the core?!


Ha.  You beat me to it.  :-)  Just before I clicked to post the same question, I saw you had.
Looks like surface cleaning, probably to mount new sensors... or to re-rivet some internal structure?

I rather doubt SpaceX is riveting internal components on a flown core.

Rather, I suspect those marked up areas might be places where SpaceX did some down-to-the-metal surface cleaning to enable NDT (non-destructive testing) as part of their post-flight/pre-reflight evaluations of the new Block 5 cores.

Bingo.

That's exactly what you'd expect to see.  I bet we see the same markings in the same spot for this core until they establish data over multiple flights.
Superheavy + Starship the final push to launch commit!

Offline AUricle

SpaceX image of F9-61 on the pad.

 - Ed Kyle

What are those markings on the middle of the core?!


Ha.  You beat me to it.  :-)  Just before I clicked to post the same question, I saw you had.
Looks like surface cleaning, probably to mount new sensors... or to re-rivet some internal structure?

I rather doubt SpaceX is riveting internal components on a flown core.

Rather, I suspect those marked up areas might be places where SpaceX did some down-to-the-metal surface cleaning to enable NDT (non-destructive testing) as part of their post-flight/pre-reflight evaluations of the new Block 5 cores.

Bingo.

That's exactly what you'd expect to see.  I bet we see the same markings in the same spot for this core until they establish data over multiple flights.

I'm just the Messenger....Chris Bergin may have figured this out. Check his Twitter page......and look at this https://www.omniglot.com/conscripts/marain.htm

It's just such a Musk-ish thing to do ;D .....and Elon is a big fan of Lain M Banks Culture Series

Offline StuffOfInterest

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SpaceX image of F9-61 on the pad.

 - Ed Kyle

What are those markings on the middle of the core?!


Someday, somebody has to write "Wash me!" with a sponge on one of those cores.

Offline groknull

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SpaceX image of F9-61 on the pad.

 - Ed Kyle

What are those markings on the middle of the core?!


Ha.  You beat me to it.  :-)  Just before I clicked to post the same question, I saw you had.
Looks like surface cleaning, probably to mount new sensors... or to re-rivet some internal structure?

I rather doubt SpaceX is riveting internal components on a flown core.

Rather, I suspect those marked up areas might be places where SpaceX did some down-to-the-metal surface cleaning to enable NDT (non-destructive testing) as part of their post-flight/pre-reflight evaluations of the new Block 5 cores.

Bingo.

That's exactly what you'd expect to see.  I bet we see the same markings in the same spot for this core until they establish data over multiple flights.

Those markings are within a rectangle which is slightly darker than the surrounding tank surface.  Somewhere upthread here, or in the Bangabandhu-1 discussion thread, there was, IIRC a discussion of that rectangle possibly being an experimental surface treatment area.  If that is the case, taking surface samples and doing wide area thickness measurements would make sense.

EDIT: Found it - Telstar 19 Discussion thread (same rectangle - different booster):
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43465.msg1841151#msg1841151
MarekCyzio asked, ugordan pondered possible reason.

« Last Edit: 08/07/2018 12:49 am by groknull »

Offline Halidon

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Have we seen the drone ship camera look up and then pan down before? Neat shot.

Offline GregA

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What were the sparks coming off the engine area after the re-entry burn (just before the camera stopped)?

Offline Llian Rhydderch

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Was the first time I ever noticed the droneship camera pan up first.

So I'm going with: new feature.
« Last Edit: 08/07/2018 05:31 am by Llian Rhydderch »
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"You would actually save yourself time and effort if you were to use evidence and logic to make your points instead of wrapping yourself in the royal mantle of authority.  The approach only works on sheep, not inquisitive, intelligent people."

Offline RDMM2081

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What were the sparks coming off the engine area after the re-entry burn (just before the camera stopped)?

I a;so thought it was sparks at first, but thinking again I suspect condensed water from starting to hit the denser atmosphere?  Just a thought, interesting looking effect.

Offline Jarnis

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What were the sparks coming off the engine area after the re-entry burn (just before the camera stopped)?

Re-entry heating starting up. We've seen some sparkshows before during night launches when booster re-enters thicker atmosphere. Nothing new.

Offline ZachS09

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Really liking the music playlist during this coast phase.

Sounds like one of the songs got remixed with more instruments.
Liftoff for St. Jude's! Go Dragon, Go Falcon, Godspeed Inspiration4!

Offline lonestriker

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Landing looked to be dead center from the camera view and no extra fires post-landing, so they've pretty much figured out this whole "landing a booster" thing.

IIRC, we've seen sparks like that before on other S1 entries.  I think night launches in particular highlight that effect.

Offline Lar

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Have we seen the drone ship camera look up and then pan down before? Neat shot.
I too think not. It will be neat if they do this with a daylight landing.
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Offline cscott

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Ablative thermal protection works by "burning off" the protective material, making the sparks you see. We've seen it on block 4; this is the first time on block 5, so it confirms that it's not all titanium heat shield newness, there's still some good old fashioned SPAM down there.

There were some interesting blue plasmas which lasted quite a while, that was interesting to see.  Blue is the color of ionized oxygen and violet is the color of ionized nitrogen; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionized-air_glow has some nice pictures.  We don't see that in the daytime either.

No heat glow on the grid fins, just intermittent indirect illumination.

I wish they'd kept the camera on the descending first stage for longer.  I thought I saw a nice aurora on the limb of the Earth in one shot...
« Last Edit: 08/07/2018 06:02 am by cscott »

Offline edkyle99

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Maybe GEO-2,000 m/s or so.  Very approximate guesstimate.  Velocity increase was shown on the SpaceX screen going from 26,681 km/hr to 34,903 km/hr, or 2,284 m/sec.


 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 08/07/2018 06:04 am by edkyle99 »

Offline lonestriker

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Ablative thermal protection works by "burning off" the protective material, making the sparks you see. We've seen it on block 4; this is the first time on block 5, so it confirms that it's not all titanium heat shield newness, there's still some good old fashioned SPAM down there.

There were some interesting blue plasmas which lasted quite a while, that was interesting to see.  Blue is the color of ionized oxygen and violet is the color of ionized nitrogen; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionized-air_glow has some nice pictures.  We don't see that in the daytime either.

No heat glow on the grid fins, just intermittent indirect illumination.

I wish they'd kept the camera on the descending first stage for longer.  I thought I saw a nice aurora on the limb of the Earth in one shot...

And a nice view of Florida city lights from space as well as some lightning.  I love night launches for the extra light show, but still prefer daytime launches for the better booster views.

Offline cscott

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Re-watching, it was definitely distant lightning, not an aurora.  Still very pretty!

I also noticed a strong purple halo during ascent and I'm wondering if that was ionized air glow as well.  Seemed to be strongest around max Q.

Offline TripleSeven

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Really liking the music playlist during this coast phase.

Sounds like one of the songs got remixed with more instruments.

https://soundcloud.com/testshotstarfish/sets/flight-proven-single

Offline Lupi

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Man, what a view. Nothing comes close to that.

https://imgur.com/a/lcSylfC these are the pics I was able to snap, but I wasn't taking it too seriously.
We saw entry burn at 401, about 30 degrees-ish above the horizon? Went behind the trees and the AFB gate, which we were close by to.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Two newly cataloged objects:

2018-064A   2018-08-07 06:57 UTC - 193/29503km/27.06°
2018-064B   2018-08-07 06:59 UTC - 181/29527km/27.04°

I get a delta-V of 1923.3 m/s to reach GEO.

Enter initial perigee height (km): 193
Enter initial apogee height (km): 29503
Enter required inclination change (deg): 27.06

theta1 =  0.08 deg, dv1 =  119.7 m/s
theta2 = 26.98 deg, dv2 = 1803.6 m/s
dv = 1923.3 m/s
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline soltasto

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Two newly cataloged objects:

2018-064A   2018-08-07 06:57 UTC - 193/29503km/27.06°
2018-064B   2018-08-07 06:59 UTC - 181/29527km/27.04°

I get a delta-V of 1923.3 m/s to reach GEO.

Enter initial perigee height (km): 193
Enter initial apogee height (km): 29503
Enter required inclination change (deg): 27.06

theta1 =  0.08 deg, dv1 =  119.7 m/s
theta2 = 26.98 deg, dv2 = 1803.6 m/s
dv = 1923.3 m/s

I get almost identical numbers

Offline Jet Black

SpaceX image of F9-61 on the pad.

 - Ed Kyle

What are those markings on the middle of the core?!


Ha.  You beat me to it.  :-)  Just before I clicked to post the same question, I saw you had.
Looks like surface cleaning, probably to mount new sensors... or to re-rivet some internal structure?

I rather doubt SpaceX is riveting internal components on a flown core.

Rather, I suspect those marked up areas might be places where SpaceX did some down-to-the-metal surface cleaning to enable NDT (non-destructive testing) as part of their post-flight/pre-reflight evaluations of the new Block 5 cores.

Bingo.

That's exactly what you'd expect to see.  I bet we see the same markings in the same spot for this core until they establish data over multiple flights.

I'm just the Messenger....Chris Bergin may have figured this out. Check his Twitter page......and look at this https://www.omniglot.com/conscripts/marain.htm

It's just such a Musk-ish thing to do ;D .....and Elon is a big fan of Lain M Banks Culture Series

I'm not convinced by the Marain as it's based on a nine point grid. if you look though, the left has some additional vertical lines in the upper rows (2, then 1 then 3) and the right has two additional vertical lines at the bottom (2) with the rest being a reflection around the center line.
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Offline ZachF

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The big question now, is when is this booster going to get flight number 3... :)
artist, so take opinions expressed above with a well-rendered grain of salt...
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The big question now, is when is this booster going to get flight number 3... :)

I had this booster for Inflight Abort, but that got delayed a lot.
My money now is on 1048 being the first to make a third flight.

Offline John Alan

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Two newly cataloged objects:

2018-064A   2018-08-07 06:57 UTC - 193/29503km/27.06°
2018-064B   2018-08-07 06:59 UTC - 181/29527km/27.04°

I get a delta-V of 1923.3 m/s to reach GEO.

Enter initial perigee height (km): 193
Enter initial apogee height (km): 29503
Enter required inclination change (deg): 27.06

theta1 =  0.08 deg, dv1 =  119.7 m/s
theta2 = 26.98 deg, dv2 = 1803.6 m/s
dv = 1923.3 m/s

I get almost identical numbers
::)
I'll put in a GTO-1925 subsync guess as to where this one ends up in orbit...  ;)

SSL has got this - build it to fit ASDS F9 for lowest cost to orbit - thing down...  8)

And SpaceX is not going to push the landing margin too tight, in my opinion...  :)
8)

Offline envy887

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Two newly cataloged objects:

2018-064A   2018-08-07 06:57 UTC - 193/29503km/27.06°
2018-064B   2018-08-07 06:59 UTC - 181/29527km/27.04°

I get a delta-V of 1923.3 m/s to reach GEO.

Enter initial perigee height (km): 193
Enter initial apogee height (km): 29503
Enter required inclination change (deg): 27.06

theta1 =  0.08 deg, dv1 =  119.7 m/s
theta2 = 26.98 deg, dv2 = 1803.6 m/s
dv = 1923.3 m/s

I get almost identical numbers
::)
I'll put in a GTO-1925 subsync guess as to where this one ends up in orbit...  ;)

SSL has got this - build it to fit ASDS F9 for lowest cost to orbit - thing down...  8)

And SpaceX is not going to push the landing margin too tight, in my opinion...  :)
8)

Sorry, you have to guess exactly to win the prize. You were off by more than 1 m/s!

:D

Offline DeanG1967

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Anyone know why they took the legs off?  Block 5 was supposed to be a "stow and go" landing leg configuration?

Online Jakusb

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Anyone know why they took the legs off?  Block 5 was supposed to be a "stow and go" landing leg configuration?

Last time they tested folding one leg and gained valuable new info on what to improve to make it really work.
They then lowered that leg and removed them all. Since they removed them from 2 later launches.
Clearly the improvements have not found their way to an launched core yet.

a little more patients is required... ;)

Offline Prettz

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Anyone know why they took the legs off?  Block 5 was supposed to be a "stow and go" landing leg configuration?

Last time they tested folding one leg and gained valuable new info on what to improve to make it really work.
They then lowered that leg and removed them all. Since they removed them from 2 later launches.
Clearly the improvements have not found their way to an launched core yet.

a little more patients is required... ;)
Let's be honest, that's what all the previous block versions were for.

Online Jakusb

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Anyone know why they took the legs off?  Block 5 was supposed to be a "stow and go" landing leg configuration?

Last time they tested folding one leg and gained valuable new info on what to improve to make it really work.
They then lowered that leg and removed them all. Since they removed them from 2 later launches.
Clearly the improvements have not found their way to an launched core yet.

a little more patients is required... ;)
Let's be honest, that's what all the previous block versions were for.
How so?
Nobody claimed Block-5 would be totally final... SpaceX will always improve the smaller things if that helps improve processes...
Every flight gives extra experience and every flight is used to test new things.
Every piece of hardware that is new or adjusted or is used under new conditions will be reviewed for performance. If need be it will be adjusted to perform better, if the change is significant enough.

Some stuff will be frozen now, but the first few Block 5 cores don’t even have the latest COPV design... pretty significant detail.

Fairings are still being worked on, as is the second stage for potential recovery later...

Offline Semmel

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Anyone know why they took the legs off?  Block 5 was supposed to be a "stow and go" landing leg configuration?

Last time they tested folding one leg and gained valuable new info on what to improve to make it really work.
They then lowered that leg and removed them all. Since they removed them from 2 later launches.
Clearly the improvements have not found their way to an launched core yet.

a little more patients is required... ;)

Maybe. Or maybe their stage transporter is not designed to handle the legs still attached.

Offline deruch

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Anyone know why they took the legs off?  Block 5 was supposed to be a "stow and go" landing leg configuration?

Last time they tested folding one leg and gained valuable new info on what to improve to make it really work.
They then lowered that leg and removed them all. Since they removed them from 2 later launches.
Clearly the improvements have not found their way to an launched core yet.

a little more patients is required... ;)
Let's be honest, that's what all the previous block versions were for.
 

This is the first time they've ever attempted to fold the legs up post flight and landing.  How do you imagine they were going to be testing that on previous blocks which didn't include the new leg design?  I'm sure they'd already practiced with mock-ups and test articles, but none of those had actually experienced flight yet.  So, if they've found out that reality doesn't quite match their predictions, it shouldn't come as a surprise that there may yet be minor modifications needed to fully implement the change.
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline CorvusCorax

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This is the first time they've ever attempted to fold the legs up post flight and landing.  How do you imagine they were going to be testing that on previous blocks which didn't include the new leg design?  I'm sure they'd already practiced with mock-ups and test articles, but none of those had actually experienced flight yet.  So, if they've found out that reality doesn't quite match their predictions, it shouldn't come as a surprise that there may yet be minor modifications needed to fully implement the change.

Another factor is, leg removal ( and supposedly reinstallation ) isn't really all that work intensive. They need to switch to foldup to get to their famed 24h turnaround, but unless theres a payload waiting for a booster already, which currently isn't the case, they don't need that. Removing the leg is completely marginal workload, but it allows easier post flight inspection of the leg ( not necessarily repairs, just looking at it in detail how it held up ) which would make sense to do for the first couple of flights to have a meaningful sample size ( soft landings, hard landings, high speed reentry, ... )
So as long as the benefits of in-detail inspection outweigh the tiny bit iof extra work of leg removal, why shouldn't they do it?

Once Block 5 has been flyong by the douzends and barely any tweaks to the design are made anymore, you learn less and less by inspection. At some point it willno longer be worth it to remove the legs every flight. Or scrape the paint to do tests on the metal every flight. Just like with an airlplane, individual parts will get a maintenance schefule. Like "every five flights or if landing was over x g, remove leg, replace crush core, oil hinge A  and check bolt y for wear."
But they are a few flights away from that kind of practical experience.

Offline vanoord

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Maybe. Or maybe their stage transporter is not designed to handle the legs still attached.

It looks as if it can handle a stage with folded legs.

Online stcks

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Maybe. Or maybe their stage transporter is not designed to handle the legs still attached.

It looks as if it can handle a stage with folded legs.

It can and has already.

Offline Semmel

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Maybe. Or maybe their stage transporter is not designed to handle the legs still attached.

It looks as if it can handle a stage with folded legs.

It can and has already.

Can you point me to a picture where it shows the transport of a F9 first stage with legs attached? I am not aware of any such case. And I dont mean the TEL.

Online stcks

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Maybe. Or maybe their stage transporter is not designed to handle the legs still attached.

It looks as if it can handle a stage with folded legs.

It can and has already.

Can you point me to a picture where it shows the transport of a F9 first stage with legs attached? I am not aware of any such case. And I dont mean the TEL.

No can do sorry. You'll just have trust me. It was the transporter and there was a leg attached.

Offline Semmel

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Can you point me to a picture where it shows the transport of a F9 first stage with legs attached? I am not aware of any such case. And I dont mean the TEL.

No can do sorry. You'll just have trust me. It was the transporter and there was a leg attached.

OK, I'll take insider knowledge over pictures any day :) Thanks!

Offline Lar

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They mount two hoops on the stage.... These mate to the transporter. The lower hoop pretty clearly have clearance for legs, you can see this in just about any transporter photo that has that hoop present.

(the name they use for this mounting fixture may not be "hoop")
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

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