so when do we say "we have tried enough" we do a sample return from Mars...it is deader than a knob (which it will be) how much more should we try instead of say mapping the water on the moon?
a bit imprecise but I stand by my words (long day 3. Scientist prioritize based on science priorities not what is a good for space and national policy as a whilewhile they may like a few grams of Mars rock, as I pointed out that one sample and return will be the end of it..and its less important nationally then finding and mapping the water on the moon2. well lets see. if the science people had to chose between say an Europa lander or a mars sample return...it would be interesting to watch teh food fight
The midterm review recommended that changes in priorities should be vetted by the Space Studies Board's Committee on Astrobiology and Planetary Science (CAPS) and allow for input from the community as soon as possible. It would take some minimum amount of time to do this, but I can't tell you exactly how much. Perhaps a couple of years after a significant discovery is made, which is probably adequate (unless Hubble sees a Crystalline Entity or something).
Quote from: Star One on 08/14/2018 03:41 pmThanks I hadn’t thought of it that way to be honest. But do you see areas for reform though in the decadal system?I think that improvements can be made. The midterm review recommended that changes in priorities should be vetted by the Space Studies Board's Committee on Astrobiology and Planetary Science (CAPS) and allow for input from the community as soon as possible. It would take some minimum amount of time to do this, but I can't tell you exactly how much. Perhaps a couple of years after a significant discovery is made, which is probably adequate (unless Hubble sees a Crystalline Entity or something).
Thanks I hadn’t thought of it that way to be honest. But do you see areas for reform though in the decadal system?
There was one new technology that popped up as useful for Neptune, and that was aerocapture. Doing that at Neptune is uniquely different than doing it at other planets, and we haven't done it at other planets yet anyway. I think that one other area that would be challenging would be a Triton lander. That would require some autonomous capability that we haven't really demonstrated. Probably not all that difficult, but harder and it would have to be proven out. As much as I think a Triton lander (or rover?) would be cool, I don't see it happening. The cost and complexity is rather high.
Quote from: Blackstar on 08/04/2018 03:02 pmThere was one new technology that popped up as useful for Neptune, and that was aerocapture. Doing that at Neptune is uniquely different than doing it at other planets, and we haven't done it at other planets yet anyway. I think that one other area that would be challenging would be a Triton lander. That would require some autonomous capability that we haven't really demonstrated. Probably not all that difficult, but harder and it would have to be proven out. As much as I think a Triton lander (or rover?) would be cool, I don't see it happening. The cost and complexity is rather high.How applicable would the technology advancements achieved by an Europa lander be to Triton?
Quote from: Sesquipedalian on 08/26/2018 09:33 pmQuote from: Blackstar on 08/04/2018 03:02 pmThere was one new technology that popped up as useful for Neptune, and that was aerocapture. Doing that at Neptune is uniquely different than doing it at other planets, and we haven't done it at other planets yet anyway. I think that one other area that would be challenging would be a Triton lander. That would require some autonomous capability that we haven't really demonstrated. Probably not all that difficult, but harder and it would have to be proven out. As much as I think a Triton lander (or rover?) would be cool, I don't see it happening. The cost and complexity is rather high.How applicable would the technology advancements achieved by an Europa lander be to Triton?For the lander itself, reasonably so. If you can land on Europa you could land on Triton. Gravity assists from Triton could help somewhat like the Galileans would at Jupiter (to a lesser effect). Slightly colder environment. The critical difference is how you get it into orbit around Neptune and shed the massive amount of velocity that a Jupiter/Europa mission doesn't have. Basically more fuel is needed along with better tricks; it's the prework before descending into the light gravity of Triton itself that's the challenge.Blackstar could better elaborate on these issues, although comparing Europa to Triton isn't totally dissimilar in principle.
Triton doesn't have the horrible radiation that Europa does. That makes sending a spacecraft there significantly easier.
I’d rather study Pluto instead as it is a truly untouched Kuiper Belt Object unlike Triton where processes are no doubt influenced by Neptune as has its evolution. What happens on Pluto is driven by itself not the fact of it being in orbit of an ice giant.Surely Pluto doing what it does without an external influence is arguably more scientifically significant than an object with an external influence?Which as far as these two targets are concerned is another plus point for the study of Uranus over Neptune. Uranus has more scientific oddities, is comparatively easier to get to and if you want to study a KBO go to Pluto.
The Europa Lander is a heavy concept, physically, because it has to have a relay orbiter and large propulsion systems. A Triton lander, excluding equivalent systems, could be a clone with lesser rad shields but it would need more robust propulsion. For a plant analogy: same seed, tougher nut around it.
Quote from: Star One on 08/27/2018 08:28 amI’d rather study Pluto instead as it is a truly untouched Kuiper Belt Object unlike Triton where processes are no doubt influenced by Neptune as has its evolution. What happens on Pluto is driven by itself not the fact of it being in orbit of an ice giant.Surely Pluto doing what it does without an external influence is arguably more scientifically significant than an object with an external influence?Which as far as these two targets are concerned is another plus point for the study of Uranus over Neptune. Uranus has more scientific oddities, is comparatively easier to get to and if you want to study a KBO go to Pluto.It isn't exactly untouched. Pluto's heart, Tombaugh Regio, is essentially a huge melted impact crater. Not to mention Pluto had its own interactions with Charon. Coupled with Pluto's minimal craters that small planet's been active for its own reasons too. Triton and Pluto, if not brother worlds, have a definite half-brother vibe to them.
Quote from: Star One on 08/27/2018 08:28 amI’d rather study Pluto instead as it is a truly untouched Kuiper Belt Object unlike Triton where processes are no doubt influenced by Neptune as has its evolution. What happens on Pluto is driven by itself not the fact of it being in orbit of an ice giant.Surely Pluto doing what it does without an external influence is arguably more scientifically significant than an object with an external influence?Which as far as these two targets are concerned is another plus point for the study of Uranus over Neptune. Uranus has more scientific oddities, is comparatively easier to get to and if you want to study a KBO go to Pluto.'Compare and contrast' is also important scientifically. We thought we had a good idea as to how planetary systems formed until we could compare and contrast the solar system with others. We've found out a lot about Pluto (and Charon) and think we understand some things and don't understand others and to move forward we need to study similar objects. So, I think if we're going to send a mission to a KBO then it should be a different one. Triton has the advantage that it's nearer and can be subsumed in a larger mission. As to the effect of the planet - that will tell us something new.I certainly think a mission to an ice giant is warranted, but am somewhat agnostic as to whether Uranus or Neptune is preferable. However, Uranus will be quicker and likely less expensive, so I imagine it's favourite.
I stumbled across this site for a company that prints on metal. They have some neat ones of the planets and moons:https://displate.com/taenaron/a-portrait-of-the-solar-systemI have not ordered from them, so I don't know the quality. But some of them are quite striking.
Quote from: Blackstar on 09/04/2018 03:12 amI stumbled across this site for a company that prints on metal. They have some neat ones of the planets and moons:https://displate.com/taenaron/a-portrait-of-the-solar-systemI have not ordered from them, so I don't know the quality. But some of them are quite striking.Link didn't work but man those portraits are beautiful.