Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion  (Read 64241 times)

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #40 on: 06/22/2018 11:30 pm »
I dont see a grapple fixture or other attach mechanism on the new LEE. Will it need to be removed from the trunk via spacewalk or am I just missing where the arm or dextre will grab it?
The LEE FSE FRAM will be extracted by Dextre and the crew will perform the R&R. A low level proposal by MAXAR Technologies (SSLMDA) to build new robotic arm ORU components with built in MCT SPDM grapple points to allow ORU R&R via a robotic vehicular activity (RVA). This proposal will likely see its first use in the LOP-G or DST Programmes.

Offline Wolfram66

I do not remember having a US disposal off the coast of Bermuda previously. When was the last time that was done? Usually it’s in southern ocean or Indian Ocean near Australia

Offline IanThePineapple

I do not remember having a US disposal off the coast of Bermuda previously. When was the last time that was done? Usually it’s in southern ocean or Indian Ocean near Australia

It usually is in or near the Pacific or Indian oceans, this might be one of the B5 S2 re-entry tests we've heard about
« Last Edit: 06/23/2018 05:03 pm by IanThePineapple »

Offline rpapo

I do not remember having a US disposal off the coast of Bermuda previously. When was the last time that was done? Usually it’s in southern ocean or Indian Ocean near Australia

It usually is in or near the Pacific or Indian oceans, this might be one of the B5 S2 re-entry tests we've heard about
Or they might simply be demonstrating the second stage's longevity, much as they did with the Falcon Heavy launch.
Following the space program since before Apollo 8.

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #44 on: 06/24/2018 01:26 am »
The S2 re-entry zone is oriented northwest to southeast, aligned for a descending node re-entry.

How long would it take for the initial, approximately 90-minute orbit to "walk" around the globe to have a descending node re-entry over the North Atlantic?
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Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #45 on: 06/24/2018 02:59 am »
The S2 re-entry zone is oriented northwest to southeast, aligned for a descending node re-entry.

How long would it take for the initial, approximately 90-minute orbit to "walk" around the globe to have a descending node re-entry over the North Atlantic?

A quick measurment on Google Maps says that the track is 3000 miles east of KSC.
That roughly translates to 10 hours 
12*(0.5-3000/(6378*2*pi*cos(28.6))=9.9
I am sure someone can do a more precise estimate.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #46 on: 06/24/2018 03:25 am »
The S2 re-entry zone is oriented northwest to southeast, aligned for a descending node re-entry.

How long would it take for the initial, approximately 90-minute orbit to "walk" around the globe to have a descending node re-entry over the North Atlantic?

A quick measurment on Google Maps says that the track is 3000 miles east of KSC.
That roughly translates to 10 hours 
12*(0.5-3000/(6378*2*pi*cos(28.6))=9.9
I am sure someone can do a more precise estimate.

Thanks!--a rough estimate is sufficient to serve my follow-up question.

If the second stage is to perform a re-entry burn approximately 10 hours after launch, is that a substantial increase in its operational lifetime over previous launches/Falcon 9 versions?
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Offline gongora

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #47 on: 06/24/2018 03:43 am »
The S2 re-entry zone is oriented northwest to southeast, aligned for a descending node re-entry.

How long would it take for the initial, approximately 90-minute orbit to "walk" around the globe to have a descending node re-entry over the North Atlantic?

A quick measurment on Google Maps says that the track is 3000 miles east of KSC.
That roughly translates to 10 hours 
12*(0.5-3000/(6378*2*pi*cos(28.6))=9.9
I am sure someone can do a more precise estimate.

Thanks!--a rough estimate is sufficient to serve my follow-up question.

If the second stage is to perform a re-entry burn approximately 10 hours after launch, is that a substantial increase in its operational lifetime over previous launches/Falcon 9 versions?

I think I have to disagree that the rough estimate is sufficient for your follow-up question.  Raul's post said reentry is about 6 hours after launch, which is about the same as previous long coast tests.

Offline gongora

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #48 on: 06/24/2018 03:51 am »
From the NOTMAR that Raul linked:

Quote
Eastern Range OP# X4715 FALCON 9 CRS-15 will be conducting hazardous operations surface to unlimited within the following Launch Hazard Areas.

A: From 2836N 8038W, TO 2906N 8011W, TO 2904N 8007W, TO 2834N 8028W, TO 2829N 8033W to beginning
B: From 3232N 7630W, TO 3453N 7342W, TO 3445N 7326W, TO 3222N 7619W to beginning

Hazard periods for primary And backup launch day;
Primary launch day: 29 / 0933Z thru 29 / 1014Z Jun 18. Preferred T-0 is 0938Z.
Backup launch day (1): 30 / 0911Z thru 30 / 0951Z Jul 18. Preferred T-0 is 0916Z.
Backup launch day (2): 01 / 0844Z thru 01 / 0925Z Jul 18. Preferred T-0 is 0849Z.
 
Eastern Range OP# X4715 FALCON 9 CRS-15 UPPER STAGE REENTRY will be conducting hazardous operations surface to unlimited for atmospheric upper stage reentry and splashdown of launch vehicle upper stage within the following areas.

A: FROM 3933N 5940W, TO 2800N 4628W, TO 2227N 5152W, TO 3446N 6509W to beginning

Hazard periods for primary and backup launch day;
Primary launch day: 29 / 1553Z thru 29 / 1632Z Jun 18. Preferred T-0 is 0938Z.
Backup launch day (1): 30 / 1531Z thru 30 / 1634Z Jul 18. Preferred T-0 is 0916Z.
Backup launch day (2): 01 / 1504Z thru 01 / 1543Z Jul 18. Preferred T-0 is 0849Z.

(I'm glad Raul looks at these things so I don't have to.)

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #49 on: 06/24/2018 08:33 pm »
So that starts 6 hrs 20 min after the opening of the launch window.
So much for my estimating abilities. 😛
6 hrs is about the time to get from GTO to GSO altitude so it’s all the coast time needed unless there are some extraordinary launch profiles. 
And isn’t that what SpaceX demonstrated on the inaugural flight of the Heavy?
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Online theinternetftw

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #50 on: 06/26/2018 03:18 am »
Airspace Closure Area and Launch Hazard Area

I'm digging the Expendable Launches heading on the hazard area sheet.

Offline Surfdaddy

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #51 on: 06/26/2018 09:42 pm »
Airspace Closure Area and Launch Hazard Area

I'm digging the Expendable Launches heading on the hazard area sheet.

It's kind of amazing how quickly we've become used to reused first stage boosters. Now we wonder "Oh, they're actually going to throw that one away?". Quite an accomlishment by SpaceX. Of course this probably could have been done 20 or 30 years ago, but it took a company focusing on efficiency and commercialization to make it a priority to develop the reuse capabilities.

Offline Alexphysics

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #52 on: 06/26/2018 09:49 pm »
That's on all those maps, regardless of what the booster does after MECO. It has been on other launches where there has been a landing, nothing special

Online theinternetftw

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #53 on: 06/26/2018 11:13 pm »
That's on all those maps, regardless of what the booster does after MECO. It has been on other launches where there has been a landing, nothing special

Is that so?  What's the heading from then, the shuttle days?  A vestigial leftover of truly-expendable EELV?
« Last Edit: 06/26/2018 11:15 pm by theinternetftw »

Offline Alexphysics

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #54 on: 06/26/2018 11:27 pm »
Probably, that's something that I don't know, but I remember seeing that in past missions and seeing people asking about it even though we knew the launch wasn't expendable.

Offline ChrisGebhardt

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #55 on: 06/27/2018 01:02 am »
That's on all those maps, regardless of what the booster does after MECO. It has been on other launches where there has been a landing, nothing special

Is that so?  What's the heading from then, the shuttle days?  A vestigial leftover of truly-expendable EELV?

It's the Air Force classification of the Falcons as part of the EELV program.  Nothing to do with Shuttle.  It's just the Air Force nomenclature.  Has nothing to do -- now -- with true expendability.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #56 on: 06/27/2018 03:18 am »
It's the Air Force classification of the Falcons as part of the EELV program.  Nothing to do with Shuttle.  It's just the Air Force nomenclature.  Has nothing to do -- now -- with true expendability.
Right.  Back in the day, 1980s and onward, there was Space Transportation System and there were Expendable Launch Vehicles.  That was the nomenclature (USAF and NASA), and it apparently hasn't changed. 

And the nomenclature is mostly accurate this year.  In 2018 so far, seven of the ten Falcon 9s have been totally expended.  (This launch will make eight out of eleven.)  The other three were, like Shuttle in the old days, partly expended.

There should be a new naming convention to explain the modern era.  Partially Reusable Launch Vehicle?  Evolved Launch Vehicle?  Vertical Launch Vehicle?  VTVLLV? 

 - Ed Kyle 
« Last Edit: 06/27/2018 03:24 am by edkyle99 »

Online theinternetftw

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #57 on: 06/27/2018 05:12 am »
Right.  Back in the day, 1980s and onward, there was Space Transportation System and there were Expendable Launch Vehicles.

That's exactly what I meant by related to shuttle. STS vs (E)ELV.

There should be a new naming convention to explain the modern era.  Partially Reusable Launch Vehicle?  Evolved Launch Vehicle?  Vertical Launch Vehicle?  VTVLLV?

I seem to remember a new name being officially bandied about somewhere in a recent budget-related news item, but I can't find it anywhere. It was something like NSSLV? National Security Space Something-Something, at any rate.

[...]

Actually, before clicking post, I found it.  The new name for the EELV program is the National Security Space Launch Program.  That's what's desired by the Senate, anyway.  The language is from the latest NDAA, and is not yet reconciled or signed.

Quote
Renames the Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) program the National Security Space Launch Program and directs the Secretary of Defense to pursue a strategy that includes fully or partially reusable space launch systems.

« Last Edit: 06/27/2018 05:19 am by theinternetftw »

Offline envy887

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #58 on: 06/27/2018 02:03 pm »
It's the Air Force classification of the Falcons as part of the EELV program.  Nothing to do with Shuttle.  It's just the Air Force nomenclature.  Has nothing to do -- now -- with true expendability.
Right.  Back in the day, 1980s and onward, there was Space Transportation System and there were Expendable Launch Vehicles.  That was the nomenclature (USAF and NASA), and it apparently hasn't changed. 

And the nomenclature is mostly accurate this year.  In 2018 so far, seven of the ten Falcon 9s have been totally expended.  (This launch will make eight out of eleven.)  The other three were, like Shuttle in the old days, partly expended.

There should be a new naming convention to explain the modern era.  Partially Reusable Launch Vehicle?  Evolved Launch Vehicle?  Vertical Launch Vehicle?  VTVLLV? 

 - Ed Kyle

Counting this launch, nine Falcon 9 boosters will have been launched this year, two of them twice in this year. Only one booster from a F9 launch this year will remain: the lone Block 5.

If you sort by block, the pattern for launches and recoveries this year is clear:

Block 4: 100% expended (88% after reuse: only 1 new booster was expended or lost, and then only due to weather at the landing site preventing a recovery attempt)
Block 5: 100% recovered
« Last Edit: 06/27/2018 02:04 pm by envy887 »

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-15 : June 29, 2018 : Discussion
« Reply #59 on: 06/27/2018 03:27 pm »
If you sort by block, the pattern for launches and recoveries this year is clear:

Block 4: 100% expended (88% after reuse: only 1 new booster was expended or lost, and then only due to weather at the landing site preventing a recovery attempt)
Block 5: 100% recovered

Good analysis.

It is pretty clear that SpaceX wants to be shut of B4 and move on. They must have adjudged third reflights as not worth the bother and risk, especially given the headway they've made on the backlog.

This has been covered in more depth in other threads which are more suited for this sort of analysis though.
« Last Edit: 06/27/2018 03:28 pm by Lar »
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