Is Western Science Fiction dying?

[JulesVerneATV]

The 2025 box office bombs that shocked Hollywood and cost millions
https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/biggest-movie-flops-of-2025-145200468.html
Hollywood has had many highs in 2025, but it has also had its fair share of lows with a number of box office flops like Christy and Tron: Ares.

[Blackstar]

 

[Blackstar]

Project Hail Mary, For All Mankind season 5, Star City, 3 Body Problem season 2, and Dune 3 all coming out this year.

[Star One]

Pluribus that must count as sci-fi.

[dchenevert]

Pluribus that must count as sci-fi.

IMO
a. no one calls it sci-fi. SF, please
b. lately, Pluribus and Silo are very strong examples of SF
SF means something like "science controls the setting but not the characters"
Well written SF (including on-screen, although that's pretty rare) is worth reading or watching for the plot and the people, not the CGI and the space battles.

(checks notes: actually I see here no one asked for my opinion. maybe I misplaced the memo)

[Star One]

Pluribus that must count as sci-fi.

IMO
a. no one calls it sci-fi. SF, please
b. lately, Pluribus and Silo are very strong examples of SF
SF means something like "science controls the setting but not the characters"
Well written SF (including on-screen, although that's pretty rare) is worth reading or watching for the plot and the people, not the CGI and the space battles.

(checks notes: actually I see here no one asked for my opinion. maybe I misplaced the memo)

Tell that to my iPhone which is the one that autocorrected it to sci-fi without me noticing, as it’s just done again. Just another example of it autocorrecting something wrongly. Sorry I’ll get off my OT soapbox now.

[leovinus]

Pluribus that must count as sci-fi.

IMO
a. no one calls it sci-fi. SF, please

I use "sci-fi" as abbreviations like SF are taken for other purposes And that discussion on abbreviations would take us off-topic There is another thread for that somewhere.

[leovinus]

I tend to answer the question in the thread title with "no". A few thoughts.

I see the thread ping-pongs between movies and books. Lately more on movies. On my side, I do not like what Hollywood comes up with with respect to science fiction movies. The Marvel movies are so childish to me. A race to the bottom which might be one reason for the thread title.

With respect to the term "western", that seems to concentrate on the USA. However, there are great science fiction books and stories from, e.g., France and Germany in the western realms. Movie conversions are rare but the stories were great. I have not seen a recent science fiction movie based on those stories but that could be related to the fact that I have not watched many movies anyway in the last few years. A lack on interest from my side which supports the thread title. And I prefer books anyway. Peter Hamilton managed to surprise me a few times recently (thanks

As a kid, I read a lot of comic books. Often with French origins like TinTin, Blake and Mortimer, Yoko Tsuno. Then we grow up and read other books. It always struck me that the Hollywood Marvel-comic movies appeal to a very specific audience. Those who read those old Marvel comics and liked them. Not a growth market though. More of a desperate "hi, we can make money with this". PS: How many readers on this thread know Yoko Tsuno anyway ?

With respect to books instead of movies, there are plenty of western-style science fiction books with great stories. Thought provoking, mystery, spiritually, great characters and very personal. I never see these books recommended  though on Amazon etc which seems to indicate that there is a death spiral. These apps/sites seemingly recommend the latest book (which might not be great) and that is all what many people see these days. Recommendations based on "recent" instead of "quality". Would be nicer to recommend more classical sci-fi books as well such that the bar is raised for a new generation of writers.

As one example, I like "The engines of God" by Jack McDevitt. Also "The mote in God's eye". Classics. Or the one with the farmer in North Dakota who finds a 10,000 year old sailing boat on his premises, oops. Once you are gripped by those stories then there is plenty of new materials, books, movies that could be written. Which is the main point that western science fiction is not dead. We just need more authors and script writers to convert ideas into great movies and books. And more from Europe as well please. I believe the quality exists but Hollywood and Netflix fail at the moment to convert that into watchable and exciting movies. So how do we get more great stories to the world and excite people to support the money streams?   

I did not like "Avatar" as it seems just more-and-more visual splendor. Visuals are a means to get the story across but not the main course please. I would love to see though that James Cameron picks up something like "The engines of God" please. I did not like "Interstellar". Good idea but too complicated to watch. Andy Weir's "Mars" was a nice surprise though. Mostly as a book but the movie was fun I thought. Star Trek gets an honorable mention for "First Contact".

It is not easy to write a gripping (sci-fi) book. I started but it requires concentration which is not possible for me at the moment with many other things going on. Probably a lot of people regard writing a book as daunting as it requires effort beyond Instagram and blog entries. Which would support the thread title but not due to the lack of quality material and rather due to the lack of focus.

Am interested to hear more.

[Blackstar]

And now for something completely different:


https://thespacereview.com/article/5129/1


Buck Rogers in the 20th century
by Dwayne A. Day
Monday, January 5, 2026

Actor Gil Gerard passed away on December 16, 2025, due to what his wife described as a “rare and viciously aggressive form of cancer.” He was 82. He was most well-known for playing Buck Rogers in the 1979–1981 TV show “Buck Rogers in the Twenty-Fifth Century.” If some television shows, particularly Star Trek, inspired people to go into scientific and engineering fields, or at least to become interested in spaceflight, Buck Rogers did not really inspire anybody, and was at best a lost opportunity, at worst, the non-Star Trek. The show did not last, and indeed, the character of Buck Rogers has not made it out of the 20th century. This wasn’t Gil Gerard’s fault. He was a better actor than the show deserved.

For boys of a certain age, Buck Rogers in the Twenty-Fifth Century was important, but also frustrating. If you grew up in the 1970s and were interested in science fiction, by the time the show premiered in September 1979, you had almost certainly watched endless reruns of Star Trek, and the short-lived, promising, but depressing 1978 series Battlestar Galactica. You had certainly been energized by Star Wars, which hit theaters in 1977. Buck Rogers looked like an exciting and interesting science fiction show until you watched a few episodes and realized that it certainly wasn’t Star Trek, it was schlock.

[Steve G]

Another great article.

My buddies and I were seriously into watching Star Trek reruns. (We're talking the mid 1970s here) We would schedule our activities around the shows. They loved Buck Rogers but I never did. I guess I was too serious. I did like 1978 Battlestar Galactica, except for the kid Boxey and the equally annoying robot dog Muffet II.

I am not a lover of children in adult shows, and The Children Shall Lead proved my point as being one of the worst Star Trek shows. It's interesting, if you look at deleted scenes in the Battlestar Galactica 2004 reboot, they had this same Boxey character but edited him out. I would have had him exposed as a Cylon and spaced out of an airlock. Think how much better the Jurassic Park movies would have been without the kids. Since you can't have them gobbled like children McNuggets, they're just invincible annoying distractions.

One show that had a great concept but didn't have the budget to have a hope of success was The Starlost. This would be a great reboot if given the right cast and vision. Same with Space 1999. (Or UFO for that matter)

I still recall my mother's reaction after seeing Flesh Gordon, thinking it was a reboot of Flash Gordon, but that was a great film and its satire bang on. I never laughed so much as witnessing my mom's trauma.

Is Western Science Fiction Dying?

It's already dead, Jim.

Star Trek, Star Wars, and Doctor Who all are dead. (Don't believe me, watch the trailer for Starfleet Academy) No natural deaths here, but murdered by the showrunners abandoning the core audience, horrible writing, not respecting cannon, and questionable casting. There are still some good shows. The Expanse was terrific. (What actor didn't want to play a Belter?) but there have been some spectacular failures, such as Zach Snyder's Rebel Moon, and Avatar has grown pointless.

This rut we're in is that we need to move on from Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who, the MCU, DCU, and come up with something original and fresh. Something that no one has managed to do in the last decade of the space wrecks. (The Orville wasn't bad, except the romance between Claire and the Robot Isaac was gross and they should have kept him evil) It's pretty sad when the best Star Trek are the many Fan Fiction episodes. Do yourself a favour and watch the excellent Star Trek Continues on YouTube.

I think we have just about crawled out of the rut from the last decade of sci-fi hell. Low ratings for shows and box office disasters, and seismic changes in the industry hopefully will result in new energies and new original shows.

[JulesVerneATV]

in defense of 'Buck Rogers' as a concept and an entertainment product it seems to have worked as an inspiration of an Entertainment Product from those Henson Rockne S. O'Bannon Australia tv movie production guys in 1990s-2000s it was silly at times, odd fantasy a feeling of Labyrinth but it won a lot of awards

Farscape pilot is almost like 'Buck' instead of frozen and 'time travel' they used a wormhole plot
a mini-Wormhole 'electro magnetic wave' event happens as something passes by the Earth in LEO and the scifi spaceship looks very much like Dreamchaser


the show has been on thwe webs, utube and other social media the past year



the plot device of getting injected with translators seems to have a tech Babel Fish reference or Bible or scifi The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
it was ranked among the Top Cult Shows Ever and some actors have later appeared as part of the Stargate cast.

[Metalskin]

I think that the biggest challenge now a days is that the viewing habits for movies and tv have changed so much. When I was a teenager (80s, Australia), the whole family watched TV together. You'd go to school and there would be groups of people who watched the same show. What you watched was a part of your social group.

Same applies to movies. Going to the movies was a regular activity, and if a movie was popular (looking at you Star Wars IV), then it ran for ages as kids would go more than once.

Now, I speak to people in their late 20s who don't have a TV and watch everything on their phone. A lot of them rarely go to the movies.

I assume this all translates to less advertising revenue for TV, less income for movies, and overall a greater risk to have a return on the investment. There have been articles that I've read recently that talk about how a lot of movies made historically would never be made now, as there is a greater risk of not recovering the costs. So I'm sure that translates to higher risk for Sci Fi in both movies and TV.

[Blackstar]

I thought the subject and title of this this thread was dumb. But considering the box office success of the recent Avatar movie, I think the answer is now clearly "no."

[catdlr]

Saving Star Trek, Fan Zines, Cosplay and Counterculture | Lost LA | Season 8, Episode 2 | PBS SoCal

January 13, 2026
Host Nathan Masters traces the origins of science fiction through the lens of Los Angeles—a city whose eclectic landscapes and social dynamics have long inspired speculative storytelling. From the sprawling sci-fi Collection at UC Riverside to the late-night gatherings at the House of Pies, the episode explores how spaces of fandom became sites of cultural history.  Explore the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society (LASFS), one of the oldest sci-fi communities in the world, which offered early platforms for marginalized voices. Among them was Jim Kepner, a pioneering gay rights advocate whose personal archive helped establish the ONE Archives, the largest repository of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer (LGBTQ) materials in the world. Through these stories, Lost LA uncovers how science fiction in L.A. was never just about the future—it was about imagining a more inclusive present.

Learn more at https://bit.ly/3NNzJ4T

[JulesVerneATV]

perhaps worth asking again after the latest Star Trek disaster

the comicbooks are defeated by Anime cartoon sales and Manga comicbooks

Video Game companies turn inward with political infighting while Japan gamer products sell big


the biggest movies of last year, Ne Zha 2 (哪吒之魔童闹海)    Chinese
and 2nd place was a isney kids film Zootopia 2

James Cameron one of the biggest names in film, a man who is usually reliable as a winner only took third spot with a very very expensive movie
Also the movie is more 'Fantasy' than scifi


The South Korean wave has truly arrived

Some people would say yes South Korean is 'Western' and part of a West political alliance, others would say it is very different it is not the same as the USA.
and another question, is Spanish culture Western? I know some history and political talking heads can class them as a different culture, guys like Huntington even wrote a book on it but classed Spain as Western but Latin America, South American culture as its own thing separate to the USA or Europe and classed it as 'Hispanic' culture.

Spanish Thriller ‘Billionaires’ Bunker’ Hits No. 1 On Netflix
https://www.forbes.com/sites/veronicavillafane/2025/09/30/spanish-thriller-billionaires-bunker-hits-no-1-on-netflix/

Korean Sci-Fi Disaster Movie Tops Netflix’s Global Chart 4 Weeks in a Row
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/movies/articles/korean-sci-fi-disaster-movie-130000930.html

Tokyo Unidentified Crimes Unit
After 15 Years, This Underrated Sci-Fi Series Is Still Pulling Its Weight With 11.4M Hours Watched
https://collider.com/spec-birth-underrated-japanese-sci-fi-series-11m-hours-streamed/

there are countless news channels some neutral, some leftwing culture war, a big number rightwing culture wall but all of them are trashing the latest 'Star Trek' product

'Star Trek is a Rotten Corpse'

[JulesVerneATV]

https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-records/worldwide/all-movies/cumulative/released-in-2025
1    Ne Zha 2
2    Zootopia 2    
3    Avatar: Fire and Ash    
4    Lilo & Stitch    
5    A Minecraft Movie    
6    Jurassic World Rebirth    
7    Demon Slayer -Kimetsu no Yaiba   17.27%
8    How to Train Your Dragon    
9    F1: The Movie    
10    Superman

[Blackstar]

perhaps worth asking again after the latest Star Trek disaster

Give it a rest.

[Star One]

perhaps worth asking again after the latest Star Trek disaster

the comicbooks are defeated by Anime cartoon sales and Manga comicbooks

Video Game companies turn inward with political infighting while Japan gamer products sell big


the biggest movies of last year, Ne Zha 2 () Chinese
and 2nd place was a isney kids film Zootopia 2

James Cameron one of the biggest names in film, a man who is usually reliable as a winner only took third spot with a very very expensive movie
Also the movie is more 'Fantasy' than scifi


The South Korean wave has truly arrived

Some people would say yes South Korean is 'Western' and part of a West political alliance, others would say it is very different it is not the same as the USA.
and another question, is Spanish culture Western? I know some history and political talking heads can class them as a different culture, guys like Huntington even wrote a book on it but classed Spain as Western but Latin America, South American culture as its own thing separate to the USA or Europe and classed it as 'Hispanic' culture.

Spanish Thriller ‘Billionaires’ Bunker’ Hits No. 1 On Netflix
https://www.forbes.com/sites/veronicavillafane/2025/09/30/spanish-thriller-billionaires-bunker-hits-no-1-on-netflix/

Korean Sci-Fi Disaster Movie Tops Netflix’s Global Chart 4 Weeks in a Row
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/movies/articles/korean-sci-fi-disaster-movie-130000930.html

Tokyo Unidentified Crimes Unit
After 15 Years, This Underrated Sci-Fi Series Is Still Pulling Its Weight With 11.4M Hours Watched
https://collider.com/spec-birth-underrated-japanese-sci-fi-series-11m-hours-streamed/

there are countless news channels some neutral, some leftwing culture war, a big number rightwing culture wall but all of them are trashing the latest 'Star Trek' product

'Star Trek is a Rotten Corpse'

Only in the parallel world of sci-fi fandom would Cameron’s latest film that’s heading towards a global box office of $1.5 billion be somehow considered a failure.

[JulesVerneATV]

'Ne Zha 2' won, people dont like to hear bad news! the Cassandra Effect refers to a situation where criticisms or valid warnings or concerns are considered annoying, they are disbelieved by others or told to 'give it a rest'...panic sets in as an industry collapses and then a cycle starts all over again as the next Cassandra prediction is ignored.
Numbers dont lie, the Facts are that Cameron’s latest film was beaten by Disney which is also struggling with the loss of super hero magic and struggled with the 'Snow White' flop

The superhero cash cow is probably over and the genre has gone out of fashion just as the Western Cowboy movies did.

Avatar remake also was beaten by 'Ne Zha 2' a film from China. Trump has a plan to fix all this culture and also made people like Jon Voight ambassadors to protect Hollywood, an industry which over all doesnt seem to love him that much, he has threatened to tariff and sanction non-Hollywood films and yet these moves dont seem to have saved the Hollywood industry.

Gone are the days when Hollywood would release some bla medicority superhero remake and easily score Billions in profits.
The USA / Canada or North America is still strong-ish, it was biggest cinema market, the largest market share, however these days Hollywood budgets are crazy and they depend heavily on overseas earning for profits. The Asia-Pacific region is demonstrating the most rapid growth, overseas movies keep their budgets under control Japan has a reasonable size but they were never really big cinema goers, however the new Godzillia had a Budget < $15 million shockingly low compared with Hollywood's 250 Million + inflated production figures.
https://web.archive.org/web/20240207174425/https://www.vulture.com/article/godzilla-minus-ones-oscar-nominated-vfx-budget-was-usd15-m.html
 The British and French markets are shrinking but Europe is still important for movie profits, if a Hollywood film also does good in Brazil, South Korea and Australia that adds to profits.

[JulesVerneATV]

had the industry already hit its peak and was it already set up for a crashing before 'Covid'

year 2025    
Tickets Sold
769,292,498    
Box Office
$8,700,698,191
InflationAdjusted
$8,700,698,191    
Ticket Price
$11.31


2018    
1,300,110,438    
$11,844,006,251    
$14,704,249,043    
$9.11

2016    
1,316,638,202    
$11,388,920,488    
$14,891,178,061    
$8.65


2009    
1,418,477,842    
$10,638,583,803    
$16,042,976,066    
$7.50

https://www.the-numbers.com/market/