Author Topic: Mark Gray's Spacecraft Films (Read 48223 times)

nickrulercreator · « **on:** 01/30/2023 04:12 pm »

Is it gone for good? I only have Apollos 8/11, Gemini, and the Saturns DVDs, and copies of other sets on eBay go for hundreds of dollars. I desperately want to add the other Apollo DVDs to my current collection without shelling out what would total to be several thousand dollars.

ZachS09 · « **Reply #1 on:** 01/30/2023 05:12 pm »

I have both “Mighty Saturn Rockets” DVDs in my collection. The Part 2 version was the first time I saw the Apollo 4 launch in its entirety.

I was also enthralled by the numerous angles of the Apollo 8 launch.

markbike528cbx · « **Reply #2 on:** 01/31/2023 01:45 am »

I see "The Mighty Saturns: Saturn V (Extended Collector's Edition) " used online for ~$70 USD

Apollo 15 : Man Must Explore used on Ebay ~$ 89 USD.

I see sets for under 100 dollars, I'm sure if you got EVERYTHING it might be a thousand, not thousands.

Three editions of the Spacecraft films series, Three disc Project Gemini , Three disc The Mighty Saturns 1 and 1B and three disc Apollo 11 Men on the Moon. all for $65 USD.

Oh, you wanted new, yep, hundreds each.

nickrulercreator · « **Reply #3 on:** 01/31/2023 10:24 pm »

Quote from: markbike528cbx on 01/31/2023 01:45 am

I see "The Mighty Saturns: Saturn V (Extended Collector's Edition) " used online for ~$70 USD

Apollo 15 : Man Must Explore used on Ebay ~$ 89 USD.

I see sets for under 100 dollars, I'm sure if you got EVERYTHING it might be a thousand, not thousands.

Three editions of the Spacecraft films series, Three disc Project Gemini , Three disc The Mighty Saturns 1 and 1B and three disc Apollo 11 Men on the Moon. all for $65 USD.

Oh, you wanted new, yep, hundreds each.

I don't necessarily want new, just "good enough." And yes I actually bought several of those sets you listed (Gemini, Saturns 1/1B, Apollo 11, Saturn V, Apollo 13), but others like Apollo 9,10, and 17, are close to $500.

woods170 · « **Reply #4 on:** 02/01/2023 10:11 am »

Quote from: nickrulercreator on 01/30/2023 04:12 pm

Is it gone for good?
<snip>

Yes, Spacecraft Films is gone forever. Good riddance actually because Mark's customer service was the probably the worst you will ever find. There are loads of people all over the planet still waiting for their purchases to be shipped. Some have been waiting as much as 10 years.

Mark Gray is actually a forum member here. But his profile page shows that he last logged in 11 years ago.

Basically: Mark is a fraud. Some older threads with complaints about his lack of service and basically scamming people out of their money, are here:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=6990.0

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26288.0

ELinder · « **Reply #5 on:** 02/01/2023 01:14 pm »

it's a great shame, because he didn’t start out like that. I don't know what happened, but I started buying his disk sets as soon as he started producing them. They were always top quality, any email interactions with him were very good, and I got everything shipped promptly when I ordered. Yes, some of the sets took longer to finish than he estimated, but there were fairly regular releases. They're still worth buying if you can find them.

woods170 · « **Reply #6 on:** 02/01/2023 03:58 pm »

Quote from: ELinder on 02/01/2023 01:14 pm

it's a great shame, because he didn’t start out like that. I don't know what happened, but I started buying his disk sets as soon as he started producing them. They were always top quality, any email interactions with him were very good, and I got everything shipped promptly when I ordered. Yes, some of the sets took longer to finish than he estimated, but there were fairly regular releases. They're still worth buying if you can find them.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you that his sets were of excellent quality.
Personally I have the Gemini set, both Saturn sets, Apollo 1, Apollo 7, Apollo 8, Apollo 9, Apollo 11, First Moonwalk, Apollo 12 and Apollo 15 sets. But I got ALL of those via either Amazon, Ebay or other resellers. But never straight from Mark. And that is because the first reports of bad experiences with Mark began hitting the internet as early as 2004. At least when Amazon says it is "In stock" then you can count on the fact that they actually have the thing in stock and will actually ship it to you.

Not so with Mark Gray unfortunately. And from the age of the various complaint threads it is clear that this has been going on for the better part of 2 decades. And it is not incidental either.

Steve G · « **Reply #7 on:** 02/01/2023 04:14 pm »

I loved the films. I have all the Apollos including Apollo 1, Mercury and Geminis, X15, MOL, Valkyrie, and "Live from the Moon". I was hoping to have Skylab. ASTP, and the Vostoks that he hinted he was working on. The only customer service issue I had was for Apollo 15, which took months but it was backlogged and finally got it. Some of the 16mm were a ripoff as they were small screen resolution, but he had rare footage and they were well put together. Customer service was an issue, but he was clearly a one-man-show and didn't have the sales to cover the cost of staff to support him.

Blackstar · « **Reply #8 on:** 02/01/2023 05:03 pm »

I agree with the earlier comments. But maybe we can turn this thread into something useful for the future. Maybe we can compile a list of all the sets that were produced. Then, in the future, if somebody is interested, they can see this list and they may know what to look for.

So let's add content here.

Steve G · « **Reply #9 on:** 02/01/2023 06:26 pm »

Mark put a tremendous effort in the production, and though the customer service was poor, he offered a unique product available nowhere else.

Here are the sets that I have.

Project Mercury: A New Frontier. Six DVDs, over 24 hours. (Phenomenal, a must-have)

Project Gemini: A Bold Leap Forward. Three disks, over 6 hours including an original documentary. I would have liked the 16mm films to have been motion-stabilized.

X-15: The Edge of Space. Three DVDs. Not bad, but there are some better documentaries out there.

Mach 3: The XB-20 Valkyrie. One CD. Very Good

Man in Space: U.S. Air Force Manned Space Projects: Phenomenal.

I have all of the Apollo missions. This includes all of the TV transmissions, though the quality is really poor on some depending on his sources. (Apollo 9, the only footage he found for the two TV transmissions was through CBS News) and all audio on the moon when without TV coverage, supplemented by still photography. AS-16's drive up Stone Mountain was on 16mm, slowed down and matched audio. Amazing.

First Moonwalk: The restored Apollo 11 EVA. I bought this not knowing the restored EVA was also on the Apollo 11 box set.

Live from the Moon: The Story of Apollo Television. This is the only Blu-ray release and is a 95 minute original documentary, which was really well done.

There are others I didn't get and I regret not getting. The Mighty Saturns comes to mind.

The fact that these were DVDs have the resolution far below what we now expect. A shame these were never released as Blue-rays.

Having been in the video and film production business, I am more sympathetic to Mark than others. The work and effort on the films is first-rate and hundreds of hours went into each one. The research and quest for rare footage is extensive, and he has given us precious documentaries of the golden age of spaceflight. I really believe that having such a limited, targeted audience, he didn't have huge sales that would have given him a better business infrastructure and capital that would have prevented the customer service woes described. It would have been good had someone with deeper pockets bought him out, but that didn't happen.

mtakala24 · « **Reply #10 on:** 02/01/2023 08:21 pm »

The films were great, but shame about the customer service. But I'm a bit sad to see it go nevertheless.

Maybe, new film scans, better quality materials on Bluray, and the rise of HD streaming services on Internet overtook the quality he was able to produce. There was a set about the Shuttle development in works for many many years - which I did order, but never got as it was never released - and it was always "missing this bit, or that bit." Certainly, one of the bits was the rendered concept footage and animations - something that will always be a moving goal in quality. Maybe those were produced in 2012 or something but if released now on DVD, they would already look very dated in quality.

Here is the list of sets I have:

Spacecraftfilms: Aeronautics And Space Report 1965
Spacecraftfilms: Aeronautics And Space Report 1966
Spacecraftfilms: Aeronautics And Space Report 1967
Spacecraftfilms: Aeronautics And Space Report 1968
Spacecraftfilms: Apollo 1
Spacecraftfilms: Apollo 11
Spacecraftfilms: Apollo 12 - Ocean of Storms
Spacecraftfilms: Apollo 13 - The Real Story
Spacecraftfilms: Apollo 15: Man Must Explore - Extended Collectors Edition NOTE: Disc 6 is unreadable, I was able to get the raw copy as files from Finnius
Spacecraftfilms: Apollo 7: Shakedown Cruise
Spacecraftfilms: Apollo 8 - Leaving the Cradle
Spacecraftfilms: Apollo 9 - Spider Takes Flight
Spacecraftfilms: Developing Project Apollo NOTE: Disc is unreadable, I was able to get the raw copy as files from Finnius
Spacecraftfilms: Challenger
Spacecraftfilms: Liftoff! Success and failure on the launch pad
Spacecraftfilms: Man In Space - U.S.Air Force Manned Space Projects
Spacecraftfilms: Manned Spacecraft Center Reports 1964-1969
Spacecraftfilms: Mission To The Moon
Spacecraftfilms: Project Gemini
Spacecraftfilms: Project Mercury
Spacecraftfilms: The Mighty Saturns: Saturn I and IB
Spacecraftfilms: The Mighty Saturns: Saturn V
Spacecraftfilms: X-15 The Edge Of Space

yg1968 · « **Reply #11 on:** 02/02/2023 01:13 am »

I wish that Mark Gray had given all of his titles for someone else to sell.

Anyways, here is my list:

Apollo 1: From Design to Disaster
Apollo 7: Shakedown Cruise
Apollo 8 - Leaving the Cradle
Apollo 9 - Spider Takes Flight
Apollo 10 - The Dress Rehearsal
Apollo 11: Men on the Moon (2003 and 2011 versions)
Apollo 12 - Ocean of Storms
Apollo 13 - The Real Story
Apollo 14: Mission to Fra Mauro
Apollo 15: Man Must Explore
Apollo 16: Journey to Descartes
Apollo 17: End of the beginning
First lunar landing
Mission to the Moon
The Apollo Lunar Surface Journal
The Mighty Saturns: Saturns I and IB
The Mighty Saturns: Saturn V
Saturn's First Power: Building the H-1 Engine
Project Gemini: A Bold Leap Forward
STS-1 to STS 41B
STS-51-J to STS-28
Challenger
STS-109: Columbia and Hubble
Developing Project Apollo
Aeronautics and Space Report 1965
Aeronautics and Space Report 1966
Aeronautics and Space Report 1967
NASA - Manned Spacecraft Center Reports: 1964-1969
Project Gemini Flight Controller Orientation
Liftoff! Success and failure on the launch pad
The Astronauts vol. one
X-15: The Edge of Space
Man in Space
Project Mercury: A New Frontier
Freedom 7: America's First Space Flight
Live from the Moon - The Story of Apollo Television (on DVD and Blu-Ray). It can also be found here on Mark Gray's Vimeo channel:
https://vimeo.com/channels/39850/413822599

I am missing the following titles:

1968 NASA Aeronautics and Space Reports (these are available on YouTube);
Manned Space Flight Quarterly Reports: 1965-1970 (some are available on YouTube) and
First Moonwalk: The Restored Apollo 11 EVA.

P.S. For a complete list of the Spacecraft Films DVDs that were once available, see the second post in this thread (in this other forum):
https://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=157767

mtakala24 · « **Reply #12 on:** 02/02/2023 07:38 am »

Quote from: yg1968 on 02/02/2023 01:13 am

I wish that he had given all of his titles for someone else to sell.

Me as well. What if someone bought his unreleased content, then crowdfunded the remaining production and release via kickstarter/indiegogo. I would 100% buy at least the Shuttle set that way.

nickrulercreator · « **Reply #13 on:** 02/02/2023 02:13 pm »

So incredible to see this thread blow up as it did. I guess I can add what I have:

Apollo 8
Apollo 11
Apollo 13
(Looking at A15/17 for purchase)
Gemini
Saturns I/IB
Saturn V
Liftoff!

I strongly believe this work should not be made behind a significant paywall as it essentially is right now ($500 for one dvd set Some places). All of mark’s work should be documented and made publicly available through NASA’s website in my opinion.

JAFO · « **Reply #14 on:** 02/02/2023 08:06 pm »

Quote from: nickrulercreator on 02/02/2023 02:13 pm

So incredible to see this thread blow up as it did.

....
I strongly believe this work should not be made behind a significant paywall as it essentially is right now ($500 for one dvd set Some places). All of mark’s work should be documented and made publicly available through NASA’s website in my opinion.

I remember when Mark first released the films, I was single at the time and had the luxury of being able to sit and watch the films in 5.1 at whatever damn volume I wanted, as many times as my OCD fascination with spaceflight required that day/night/very late night. He put out a very nice product and I had many of them, I didn't mind paying him for his work.

One thing I REALLY liked was that Mark recognized the historical value of the material, and he left them alone with no watermarking, etc. There's another company out there who will go unnamed, but they put a big assed time clock across the bottom along with their logo, blocking parts of the material and ruining them. Seems wrong that they are able to take material produced by others and do that. Sure, I understand they need to make money, but....

nickrulercreator · « **Reply #15 on:** 02/02/2023 08:47 pm »

Completely agree. Exploitation at its finest

Finnius · « **Reply #16 on:** 06/23/2024 02:35 pm »

Here is my list:

Apollo 7 (2dvd)
Apollo 8 (3dvd)
Apollo 11 (3dvd)
Apollo 13 (3dvd)
Apollo 15 (6dvd)
Apollo 17 (6dvd)
Project Mercury (6dvd)
Project Gemini (3dvd)
Saturn V (3dvd)
Saturn 1 & 1B (3dvd)

I am looking for:

Apollo 1 (1dvd)
Apollo 9 (2dvd)
Apollo 10 (2dvd)
Apollo 12 (3dvd)
Apollo 14 (5dvd)
Apollo 16 (6dvd)

I would be willing to buy the actual disks or perhaps trade disc images if anyone was willing.
I don't know if trading images is ok at this site or not...i'm sure someone will chide me if that is the case.

yg1968 · « **Reply #17 on:** 06/23/2024 03:54 pm »

A number of these DVDs are available on eBay. However, they are often expensive.

Finnius · « **Reply #18 on:** 06/23/2024 04:06 pm »

yes that is where I have been getting mine from. The ones in my 'want list' are not currently being offered. Guess I will just keep checking ebay every once in awhile and see if copies turn up. There is 1 person selling Apollo 12 but even with a couple counteroffers, this guy won't budge so I have to give up on his copy. lol

Finnius · « **Reply #19 on:** 08/16/2024 08:08 pm »

I wanted to give a shout-out about the Spacecraft films dvd's. Being that they are now 15-20 years old...many discs are beginning to show disc-rot. I HIGHLY suggest you check your discs and create backups immediately. If you need help with recovery methods...please PM

On another note...I am also trying to contact Mark Gray for possible purchase of:

Apollo Onboard Film In HD (Uncompressed) Delivery by Computer Drive

I have posted in a couple places, and I am hoping that he (or a friend of his) will see this post and reply to me.

Thanks.