Author Topic: SpaceX Dragon XL (Read 306200 times)

drunta1 · « **Reply #20 on:** 03/27/2020 06:27 pm »

At first glance, I thought this was a rendering of Dragon XL docking with the Gateway. Now I realize that is the second stage to the left which prompts my question: "If it carries both un-pressurized and pressurized cargo, where is the trunk?" Also, I've heard they have decided to "de-risk" the Artemis project by disconnecting Gateway from the effort to land by 2024. Some common thinking seems to be that this may be the first step to cancelling Lunar Gateway. I assume this new contract and development of this vehicle would go by the wayside if this happens?

Eerie · « **Reply #21 on:** 03/27/2020 06:33 pm »

Quote from: drunta1 on 03/27/2020 06:27 pm

At first glance, I thought this was a rendering of Dragon XL docking with the Gateway. Now I realize that is the second stage to the left which prompts my question: "If it carries both un-pressurized and pressurized cargo, where is the trunk?" Also, I've heard they have decided to "de-risk" the Artemis project by disconnecting Gateway from the effort to land by 2024. Some common thinking seems to be that this may be the first step to cancelling Lunar Gateway. I assume this new contract and development of this vehicle would go by the wayside if this happens?

It doesn't need a separate trunk, as it's 100% disposable. The un-pressurized section is probably in front, pointing away from us in the render. An open-ended barrel, basically.

abaddon · « **Reply #22 on:** 03/27/2020 06:34 pm »

Quote from: drunta1 on 03/27/2020 06:27 pm

At first glance, I thought this was a rendering of Dragon XL docking with the Gateway. Now I realize that is the second stage to the left which prompts my question: "If it carries both un-pressurized and pressurized cargo, where is the trunk?"

Either on the top end, or perhaps enclosed but not pressurized. Maybe more protection is required for the Lunar journey than to ISS? Or, artistic license.

Quote

Also, I've heard they have decided to "de-risk" the Artemis project by disconnecting Gateway from the effort to land by 2024. Some common thinking seems to be that this may be the first step to cancelling Lunar Gateway. I assume this new contract and development of this vehicle would go by the wayside if this happens?

Seems logical that if there is no Gateway, there is no Gateway delivery truck.

yg1968 · « **Reply #23 on:** 03/27/2020 06:36 pm »

Quote from: drunta1 on 03/27/2020 06:27 pm

At first glance, I thought this was a rendering of Dragon XL docking with the Gateway. Now I realize that is the second stage to the left which prompts my question: "If it carries both un-pressurized and pressurized cargo, where is the trunk?" Also, I've heard they have decided to "de-risk" the Artemis project by disconnecting Gateway from the effort to land by 2024. Some common thinking seems to be that this may be the first step to cancelling Lunar Gateway. I assume this new contract and development of this vehicle would go by the wayside if this happens?

Gateway was reduced in size but not cancelled. I never believed the rumors that Gateway would be cancelled. There is strong international support for Gateway. They are bypassing Gateway in 2024 because it won't be ready in time but that is the only reason.

yg1968 · « **Reply #24 on:** 03/27/2020 06:38 pm »

Would Dragon XL require the future elongated FH fairing?

TheRadicalModerate · « **Reply #25 on:** 03/27/2020 06:39 pm »

It looks like an FHE and a plain ol' Dragon 2, even outfitted with a bunch of ECLSS and crew consumables that they don't need, could take 4.5 t to NRHO with no problem. Surely if they stripped out all the crew-critical stuff from D2 it would carry 5 t as-is? Why the redesign?

Seems like either SpaceX or NASA is thinking of something else for this thing to do.

abaddon · « **Reply #26 on:** 03/27/2020 06:41 pm »

Quote from: yg1968 on 03/27/2020 06:38 pm

Would Dragon XL require the future elongated FH fairing?

I'd assume that (like current Dragon), it is its own fairing, likely with a larger jettisoned nose cap a la Dragon 1.

Eerie · « **Reply #27 on:** 03/27/2020 06:41 pm »

Quote from: yg1968 on 03/27/2020 06:38 pm

Would Dragon XL require the future elongated FH fairing?

It appears to be the same radius as the second stage. My guess is no fairing at all, just a disposable nosecone on top.

PS. Ninja'd by abaddon.

abaddon · « **Reply #28 on:** 03/27/2020 06:42 pm »

Quote from: TheRadicalModerate on 03/27/2020 06:39 pm

It looks like an FHE and a plain ol' Dragon 2, even outfitted with a bunch of ECLSS and crew consumables that they don't need, could take 4.5 t to NRHO with no problem. Surely if they stripped out all the crew-critical stuff from D2 it would carry 5 t as-is? Why the redesign?

Volume

nacnud · « **Reply #29 on:** 03/27/2020 06:56 pm »

Quote from: abaddon on 03/27/2020 06:42 pm

Quote from: TheRadicalModerate on 03/27/2020 06:39 pm
It looks like an FHE and a plain ol' Dragon 2, even outfitted with a bunch of ECLSS and crew consumables that they don't need, could take 4.5 t to NRHO with no problem. Surely if they stripped out all the crew-critical stuff from D2 it would carry 5 t as-is? Why the redesign?
Volume

And cost.

jarmumd · « **Reply #30 on:** 03/27/2020 06:59 pm »

Quote from: TheRadicalModerate on 03/27/2020 06:39 pm

It looks like an FHE and a plain ol' Dragon 2, even outfitted with a bunch of ECLSS and crew consumables that they don't need, could take 4.5 t to NRHO with no problem. Surely if they stripped out all the crew-critical stuff from D2 it would carry 5 t as-is? Why the redesign?

Seems like either SpaceX or NASA is thinking of something else for this thing to do.

There really isn't such a thing as stripping out stuff. It's all an integrated system. And D2 has a lot of compromises, nosecone, draco thruster orientation.

It would be easier to take existing systems and integrate them into a "new" design. Might also be due to needing more propellant for the Dracos?

edit: forgot the fwd Dracos were just vanilla, not super

mainmind · « **Reply #31 on:** 03/27/2020 07:03 pm »

Quote from: jarmumd on 03/27/2020 06:59 pm

Quote from: TheRadicalModerate on 03/27/2020 06:39 pm
It looks like an FHE and a plain ol' Dragon 2, even outfitted with a bunch of ECLSS and crew consumables that they don't need, could take 4.5 t to NRHO with no problem. Surely if they stripped out all the crew-critical stuff from D2 it would carry 5 t as-is? Why the redesign?

Seems like either SpaceX or NASA is thinking of something else for this thing to do.

There really isn't such a thing as stripping out stuff. It's all an integrated system. And D2 has a lot of compromises, nosecone, draco thruster orientation.

It would be easier to take existing systems and integrate them into a "new" design. Might also be due to needing more propellant for the Super Dracos?

I don't think Dragon XL is using SuperDracos, at least it is not indicated by the rendering. Regular old Draco RCS only shown.

yg1968 · « **Reply #32 on:** 03/27/2020 07:06 pm »

Link to the logistic module thread:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48353.0

Tommyboy · « **Reply #33 on:** 03/27/2020 07:07 pm »

Any rocket nerds that can actually do the calculations and come up with an educated guess what kind of engines DragonXL will have? Normal Draco's? SuperDraco's? Kestrel? I'm sure Elon will say "Hell no" to buying engines from a different comapny, and that it won't be viable to develop a new engine (Baby Raptor) for just two guaranteed flights of the DragonXL.

Eerie · « **Reply #34 on:** 03/27/2020 07:09 pm »

Quote from: Tommyboy on 03/27/2020 07:07 pm

Any rocket nerds that can actually do the calculations and come up with an educated guess what kind of engines DragonXL will have? Normal Draco's? SuperDraco's? Kestrel? I'm sure Elon will say "Hell no" to buying engines from a different comapny, and that it won't be viable to develop a new engine (Baby Raptor) for just two guaranteed flights of the DragonXL.

Just Draco's. SuperDraco's are for Crew Dragon abort only, and Dragon XL won't have any KeroLox for a Kestrel.

Eerie · « **Reply #35 on:** 03/27/2020 07:12 pm »

Can someone calculate how much delta-V will Dragon XL need to have to get from TLI orbit to NRHO?

nacnud · « **Reply #36 on:** 03/27/2020 07:21 pm »

Quote from: Eerie on 03/27/2020 07:12 pm

Can someone calculate how much delta-V will Dragon XL need to have to get from TLI orbit to NRHO?

0.43 km/s

PS: not my calculation, I found it on Wikipedia

Unrulycow · « **Reply #37 on:** 03/27/2020 07:22 pm »

Dragon XL is a missed opportunity on naming. Clearly it should be Lunar Dragon

Tommyboy · « **Reply #38 on:** 03/27/2020 07:25 pm »

Quote from: Unrulycow on 03/27/2020 07:22 pm

Dragon XL is a missed opportunity on naming. Clearly it should be Lunar Dragon

Nah, this thing is not going to the moon. It's even barely going into lunar orbit.

freddo411 · « **Reply #39 on:** 03/27/2020 07:27 pm »

It would be really sweet if the contract lets SX decide how to launch this. FH sized for sure, but Starship once things get going?