Author Topic: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion  (Read 204363 times)

Offline speedevil

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #620 on: 02/25/2018 06:51 pm »
Would any of those small satellites have been able to return useful information from the asteroid belt though? Or are you thinking they'd have taken such a huge load of them that they'd all have been deposited in LEO?

LEO, for the most part - dumping off a large pile of satellites in a rapidly decaying orbit.

The stage could then have restarted and thrown stuff further, done coast tests, ...

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #621 on: 02/27/2018 05:06 pm »
Would any of those small satellites have been able to return useful information from the asteroid belt though?
The chief issue with such cubesats is longevity, signal integrity, and data rate.

Just by being "reachable" by DSN on a routine schedule (weekly, monthly, ... yearly) is a major achievement.

(Those mentioned above are relay/comm in purpose.) As a science product, a simple SEP detector (about an ounce in weight including electronics) would return valuable solar wind science, useful in following missions.

Offline speedevil

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #622 on: 02/27/2018 05:30 pm »
Just by being "reachable" by DSN on a routine schedule (weekly, monthly, ... yearly) is a major achievement.

(Those mentioned above are relay/comm in purpose.) As a science product, a simple SEP detector (about an ounce in weight including electronics) would return valuable solar wind science, useful in following missions.

Add little more than an additional cubesat, a tiny amount of propulsion for mid-course correction and you can have an entirely independent mars atmospheric probe that might even survive impact.
as an example.

MIRKA2 - designed for earth reentry, would need the iridium radio swapped out of course.

With a little more orbital manoevering, close flybys and a cellphone class camera can do enormously better than any billion dollar telescope or probe at 1AU.

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #623 on: 02/27/2018 07:11 pm »
Been trying to do stuff like that for decades. Here's why it doesn't happen:

Nobody believes in low cost, long lived, DSN cubesats. Cubesats are seen as strictly short lived, short range comm "missions:.

And a lot of them are junk - they don't even work long enough to commisson on orbit.

The large sat vendors don't want the disruption, so they make things hard.

Which is why a few FH high c3 cubesats could have corrected this block to disruption.

If you correct it, then planetary missions have "tag on" secondaries routinely.

Which increases market competition on all missions, matures the cubesat markets, and restructures the entire sat/SC market for higher growth (they have the same myopia that the LV guys have had).

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #624 on: 03/07/2018 09:00 am »
Quote
EU space conferences, on any topic, evoke @SpaceX. Here's EU @GalileoGNSS director Matthias Petschke Mar 6 at #MunichSatnavSummit: 'Some global players are sending cars into space; we prefer to send satellites that help cars navigate on the ground.' @esa chief Woerner applauded.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/971320811230580737

Quote
Not laughing: @esa chief @janwoerner isn't only European who thinks @SpaceX Falcon Heavy Starman roadster-in-orbit headlines should have read: SpaceX Voluntarily Creates Orbital Debris.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/971322796612702208

Offline deruch

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #625 on: 03/07/2018 09:38 am »
Quote
Not laughing: @esa chief @janwoerner isn't only European who thinks @SpaceX Falcon Heavy Starman roadster-in-orbit headlines should have read: SpaceX Voluntarily Creates Orbital Debris.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/971322796612702208

Obnoxious, sour grapes nonsense.  Orbital debris is only controlled for "useful" orbits which is why disposing of satellites or rocket bodies into graveyard orbits is totally acceptable. 
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Online Jakusb

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #626 on: 03/07/2018 10:11 am »
Quote
Not laughing: @esa chief @janwoerner isn't only European who thinks @SpaceX Falcon Heavy Starman roadster-in-orbit headlines should have read: SpaceX Voluntarily Creates Orbital Debris.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/971322796612702208

Obnoxious, sour grapes nonsense.  Orbital debris is only controlled for "useful" orbits which is why disposing of satellites or rocket bodies into graveyard orbits is totally acceptable.

Indeed a clear and painful sign that upper management of ESA is not getting the intentions and immense progress SpaceX is bringing to the world of Spaceflight...

ESA should not feel threatened but inspired and motivated to take advantage of the previously considered impossible options now proven possible and economically feasible..

Not feeling too proud on 'our' ESA, being European

Offline woods170

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #627 on: 03/07/2018 11:49 am »
Quote
Not laughing: @esa chief @janwoerner isn't only European who thinks @SpaceX Falcon Heavy Starman roadster-in-orbit headlines should have read: SpaceX Voluntarily Creates Orbital Debris.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/971322796612702208

Obnoxious, sour grapes nonsense.  Orbital debris is only controlled for "useful" orbits which is why disposing of satellites or rocket bodies into graveyard orbits is totally acceptable.

Indeed a clear and painful sign that upper management of ESA is not getting the intentions and immense progress SpaceX is bringing to the world of Spaceflight...

ESA should not feel threatened but inspired and motivated to take advantage of the previously considered impossible options now proven possible and economically feasible..

Not feeling too proud on 'our' ESA, being European

Me neither.
Just plain stupid remark by Jan given that ESA itself has voluntarily created orbital debris, by injecting mass simulators into orbit, on at least seven (7) Ariane missions:

- Ariane L01 (CAT 1)
- Ariane L02 (CAT 2)
- Ariane L03 (CAT 3)
- Ariane L04 (CAT 4)
- Ariane 502 (Maqsat B, Maqsat H)
- Ariane 503 (Maqsat 3)
- Ariane 521 (Maqsat B2)

Pot meet Kettle. ESA sour grapes. Jan Woerner really ought to know better than to react like this.
« Last Edit: 03/07/2018 11:50 am by woods170 »

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #628 on: 03/07/2018 11:52 am »
I thought "Orbital Debris" only applied to Earth Orbit, not Solar Orbit... The chance of it ever impacting any satellite operation, or just random asteroid are so small to not even be worth discussing... Just crazy.
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Offline AncientU

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #629 on: 03/07/2018 11:54 am »
Quote
EU space conferences, on any topic, evoke @SpaceX. Here's EU @GalileoGNSS director Matthias Petschke Mar 6 at #MunichSatnavSummit: 'Some global players are sending cars into space; we prefer to send satellites that help cars navigate on the ground.' @esa chief Woerner applauded.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/971320811230580737


Gentlemen,
Now that you brought up the subjects of satellites and cars, one global player is out launching constellation satellites put up by EU/ESA (who are actually hiring the Russians to send most to orbit).  That global player is also manufacturing, launching, and operating a satellite constellation that will out number and out compete the constellation being built by Airbus/One Web.  They are also building the autonomous electric vehicles and their AI supercomputer brains to use these constellations.  These vehicles are already out competing established European luxury cars BMW/Mercedes Benz who along with all other auto makers are scrambling to bring their own BEVs to market.  This movement is allowing many European nations to declare an internal combustion engine free future. 

So yes, the Tesla in space was a one-off stunt that you can look down your collective noses at... otherwise, it's going to be Simon Says with that global player for a very long time.
« Last Edit: 03/07/2018 02:48 pm by AncientU »
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Offline Reflectiv

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #630 on: 03/07/2018 04:57 pm »
Me neither.
Just plain stupid remark by Jan given that ESA itself has voluntarily created orbital debris...

FWIW I asked him about the remark, here's the answer:
Quote
You did not get my message, unfortunately: I said that I admire how fast they could succeed in getting the Tesla on top of the launcher. And I said that I could not dare to send a car in space. I dont know whom you are quoting.
Jan



ESA - European Space Agency

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Director General

Offline rcoppola

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #631 on: 03/07/2018 05:39 pm »
Disbelief has settled into an anxious nervousness. Theory is now becoming practice. With Block-5 imminent and nothing ready to counter it, I'm afraid we'll hear more of these types of comments in the months and years to come.

Just wait until the first Block-5 FH returns all 3 cores from a real mission. Or a Block 5 F9 core is flown 14 days post return. Or better yet, the first hop of the BFS. ESA/EU better get used to this nightmare. It's only going to get worse.
« Last Edit: 03/07/2018 05:40 pm by rcoppola »
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Offline AncientU

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #632 on: 03/07/2018 05:52 pm »
Disbelief has settled into an anxious nervousness. Theory is now becoming practice. With Block-5 imminent and nothing ready to counter it, I'm afraid we'll hear more of these types of comments in the months and years to come.

Just wait until the first Block-5 FH returns all 3 cores from a real mission. Or a Block 5 F9 core is flown 14 days post return. Or better yet, the first hop of the BFS. ESA/EU better get used to this nightmare. It's only going to get worse.

Global player is just hitting stride:
First truly reusable booster is on the test stand.
Fully 'Full Thrust' finally arriving.
30 launches scheduled this year.
Raptor soon to flight quals.
BFR/BFS is being built.

Meanwhile:
Starlink is in its infancy.
Tesla, too...
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Offline woods170

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #633 on: 03/08/2018 06:43 am »
Me neither.
Just plain stupid remark by Jan given that ESA itself has voluntarily created orbital debris...

FWIW I asked him about the remark, here's the answer:
Quote
You did not get my message, unfortunately: I said that I admire how fast they could succeed in getting the Tesla on top of the launcher. And I said that I could not dare to send a car in space. I dont know whom you are quoting.
Jan



ESA - European Space Agency

Prof. Dr.-Ing. Johann-Dietrich Wörner
Director General

Peter B. de Selding is the reporter in question and he is not known for mis-quoting or mis-interpreting people.

Offline JamesH65

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #634 on: 03/08/2018 09:14 am »
Me neither.
Just plain stupid remark by Jan given that ESA itself has voluntarily created orbital debris...

FWIW I asked him about the remark, here's the answer:
Quote
You did not get my message, unfortunately: I said that I admire how fast they could succeed in getting the Tesla on top of the launcher. And I said that I could not dare to send a car in space. I dont know whom you are quoting.
Jan



ESA - European Space Agency

Prof. Dr.-Ing. Johann-Dietrich Wörner
Director General

Peter B. de Selding is the reporter in question and he is not known for mis-quoting or mis-interpreting people.

On the other hand, you have an extremely specific comment from the PERSON INVOLVED saying he does not recognise the quote.

Who should you believe, the person who is supposed to have said it but who says he didn't, or the reporter that reported it.

Sounds like a misquote or misinterpretation to me.

Offline saliva_sweet

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #635 on: 03/08/2018 09:17 am »

Who should you believe, the person who is supposed to have said it but who says he didn't, or the reporter that reported it.

Pbdes didn't say Woerner said anything. He clapped.

Offline woods170

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #636 on: 03/08/2018 10:32 am »
The tweet in question once more:

Quote from: Peter B. de Selding
Not laughing: @esa chief @janwoerner isn't only European who thinks @SpaceX Falcon Heavy Starman roadster-in-orbit headlines should have read: SpaceX Voluntarily Creates Orbital Debris.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/971322796612702208


The ESA DG agreeing on the less-than-stellar alternative headline (even if it was just by applauding, not actually speaking) does not project favorable on the  space-activities of his very own organisation, given that it has added to orbital debris, in a similar manner, not once but at least seven times.
« Last Edit: 03/08/2018 10:48 am by woods170 »

Offline Nehkara

Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #637 on: 03/08/2018 03:24 pm »
The tweet in question once more:

Quote from: Peter B. de Selding
Not laughing: @esa chief @janwoerner isn't only European who thinks @SpaceX Falcon Heavy Starman roadster-in-orbit headlines should have read: SpaceX Voluntarily Creates Orbital Debris.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/971322796612702208


The ESA DG agreeing on the less-than-stellar alternative headline (even if it was just by applauding, not actually speaking) does not project favorable on the  space-activities of his very own organisation, given that it has added to orbital debris, in a similar manner, not once but at least seven times.

Even worse... I'm guessing that orbital debris from ESA activites was around the Earth rather than in a heliocentric orbit that honestly will have no conceivable impact on any space operation, ever.

Offline CJ

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #638 on: 03/08/2018 08:31 pm »
I have a hunch that we'll be seeing more of Starman and the Roadster.

What I'm basing this on is the still image Elon sent out titled the last picture of Starman (or words to that effect) that was from several hours post TMI burn, showing Earth well behind.

My guess, based on that, is there is more video/images taken between the final burn and that photo, and SpaceX and/or Tesla are saving it for later release or use. I hope this is correct, because I'd love to see more. (the 4 hours they posted was epic.)

BTW, did we ever hear definitively if they removed the roadster's battery pack? I have a hard time believing they'd launch with it unless they both needed the mass and electrical capacity and were certain it would pose no danger to the mission (such as via rupturing or exploding in vacuum).


Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #639 on: 03/09/2018 05:04 am »
BTW, did we ever hear definitively if they removed the roadster's battery pack? I have a hard time believing they'd launch with it unless they both needed the mass and electrical capacity and were certain it would pose no danger to the mission (such as via rupturing or exploding in vacuum).

We haven't heard anything, but as the front brakes were removed (as seen from the footage), presumably to reduce mass, I think its a good bet that the batteries and other heavy internal parts were also removed.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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