I saw the talk about Dark Hamsters, and shall be going back to my beer soon. Still:Quote from: CW on 09/20/2014 03:29 pmIn my model, one photon would be recycled by, say, 10^9 times. Let's not, say, shall we? ...
In my model, one photon would be recycled by, say, 10^9 times.
Quote from: aero on 09/20/2014 08:00 pmOk, I used 17 watts in the following, so it will need to be reduced a little to allow for the dissipated heat power.I calculated that the number of electrons, 2.54E+12 from before carry a charge of 4.07E-07 C so the current flow is 4.07E-07 amps. 17 watts of power, P = I*V gives Voltage across the cavity of 41.8 MV . This is a little higher (factor of 10 higher) than the striking voltage in air so glow discharge might be a problem.Other than that, does physics allow this mechanism?1) Thank you for performing calculations and providing numbers 2) I have to think about this.3) I look forward to other readers providing comments, performing their own calculations and cross-checking.
Ok, I used 17 watts in the following, so it will need to be reduced a little to allow for the dissipated heat power.I calculated that the number of electrons, 2.54E+12 from before carry a charge of 4.07E-07 C so the current flow is 4.07E-07 amps. 17 watts of power, P = I*V gives Voltage across the cavity of 41.8 MV . This is a little higher (factor of 10 higher) than the striking voltage in air so glow discharge might be a problem.Other than that, does physics allow this mechanism?
The second case is a bit harder to prove, but still within reach of ordinary algebra:Ek = ½mV² ... kinetic energy as a function of V, again.V = at ... again, now substituteEk = ½ma²t² and remembering that [F = ma]...Ek = F²t²/(2m)
@Rodal -This is my concept of what a cathode ray tube converted to a thruster would look like. It is a static picture. In this case it seems like the electrons would strike the anode with the full vertical velocity and so would generate no external thrust. That would be so because the positive anode voltage had caused increased velocity by adding horizontal velocity. This turns the beam direction but does not react the vertical velocity. But the wall does.So - can the RF wave turn the electron beam without adding velocity?
Circuit board material 2 layers
Quote from: Notsosureofit on 09/20/2014 11:43 pmCircuit board material 2 layersSo, glass reinforced plastic, with two intact copper layers inside?
Quote from: RotoSequence on 09/21/2014 12:02 amQuote from: Notsosureofit on 09/20/2014 11:43 pmCircuit board material 2 layersSo, glass reinforced plastic, with two intact copper layers inside?How do we know that there are "two intact copper layers inside?"
Guys, really! TANSTAAFL!
At breakdown, when the electric field exceeds the dielectric strength, electrons are indeed released. If the applied electric field is sufficiently high, free electrons may become accelerated to velocities that can liberate additional electrons during collisions with neutral atoms or molecules in a process called avalanche breakdown. The dielectric strength of PTFE ("Teflon") is 20*10^6 Volt/meter, but it decreases with increased frequency and with defects.The reported calculations show that the electric field (maximum value of the Electric Field shown in Fig. 14, p.10, as 4.7189*10^4 V/m) was 400 times below the 20*10^6 V/m dielectric strength of PTFE ("Teflon"). On the other hand, if the Teflon dielectric resonator contained an unusual amount and size of defects, its dielectric strength could have been a fraction of that value.
Quote from: Rodal on 09/21/2014 01:26 amAt breakdown, when the electric field exceeds the dielectric strength, electrons are indeed released. If the applied electric field is sufficiently high, free electrons may become accelerated to velocities that can liberate additional electrons during collisions with neutral atoms or molecules in a process called avalanche breakdown. The dielectric strength of PTFE ("Teflon") is 20*10^6 Volt/meter, but it decreases with increased frequency and with defects.The reported calculations show that the electric field (maximum value of the Electric Field shown in Fig. 14, p.10, as 4.7189*10^4 V/m) was 400 times below the 20*10^6 V/m dielectric strength of PTFE ("Teflon"). On the other hand, if the Teflon dielectric resonator contained an unusual amount and size of defects, its dielectric strength could have been a fraction of that value.I'm reading the chart a little differently. Looks to me like the color bar on the left is for e-field values within the thruster while the color bar on the right is for e-field values within the RF drive pipe, hence the dielectric. The color bar chart on the right has an over the top label of 3.5922 x 10^4 and red color label of 3000. But I don't know what it means as that layout is unfamiliar....
Quote from: Rodal on 09/21/2014 01:26 amAt breakdown, when the electric field exceeds the dielectric strength, electrons are indeed released. If the applied electric field is sufficiently high, free electrons may become accelerated to velocities that can liberate additional electrons during collisions with neutral atoms or molecules in a process called avalanche breakdown. The dielectric strength of PTFE ("Teflon") is 20*10^6 Volt/meter, but it decreases with increased frequency and with defects.The reported calculations show that the electric field (maximum value of the Electric Field shown in Fig. 14, p.10, as 4.7189*10^4 V/m) was 400 times below the 20*10^6 V/m dielectric strength of PTFE ("Teflon"). On the other hand, if the Teflon dielectric resonator contained an unusual amount and size of defects, its dielectric strength could have been a fraction of that value......If IIUC, there is a mechanism where the RF wave in the dielectric can cause avalanche breakdown which will liberate huge numbers of electrons. But your reading of the available data is that the dielectric/RF wave interaction was selected to avoid that condition.
Quote from: Rodal on 09/21/2014 01:26 amAt breakdown, when the electric field exceeds the dielectric strength, electrons are indeed released. If the applied electric field is sufficiently high, free electrons may become accelerated to velocities that can liberate additional electrons during collisions with neutral atoms or molecules in a process called avalanche breakdown. The dielectric strength of PTFE ("Teflon") is 20*10^6 Volt/meter, but it decreases with increased frequency and with defects.The reported calculations show that the electric field (maximum value of the Electric Field shown in Fig. 14, p.10, as 4.7189*10^4 V/m) was 400 times below the 20*10^6 V/m dielectric strength of PTFE ("Teflon"). On the other hand, if the Teflon dielectric resonator contained an unusual amount and size of defects, its dielectric strength could have been a fraction of that value. Further, avalanche breakdown in the as specified dielectric is greater than 3 x 10^6 V/m, the striking voltage in air.