Author Topic: Declassified KH-9 HEXAGON imagery is difficult to access  (Read 19662 times)

Offline Targeteer

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Re: Declassified KH-9 HEXAGON imagery is difficult to access
« Reply #20 on: 04/17/2014 06:13 pm »

On a serious point I really do fear that future archivists may encounter 'black holes' in the data from such satellites due to issues with the storage.

They are of course aware of this stuff. That doesn't necessarily mean that they do anything about it.

I believe (and I'm basing this only on circumstantial info I've gathered, but I could ask people) that NASA's Planetary Data System includes efforts to make sure that old data is stored and kept so that it can be accessed. I think that their bigger concern is that new spacecraft are now starting to return so much data that it is going to swamp the old stuff. But they are aware of legacy issues and can reach back several decades.

But would there be the time, money & inclination to do this with very old data from the KH-11. Unless it has some worth still in an ongoing capacity to the intelligence agencies I cannot see them really being that bothered by the upkeep of 30 or 40 year old data.

You be surprised how vital historical reference imagery is when you're looking for details on say, underground bunkers :)
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Declassified KH-9 HEXAGON imagery is difficult to access
« Reply #21 on: 04/17/2014 07:05 pm »
You be surprised how vital historical reference imagery is when you're looking for details on say, underground bunkers :)

And that's a really good point. Suppose, for instance, that at some point in the future the U.S. finds itself needing to blow up an underground bunker in some country. It might be useful to have the imagery that shows the construction of that facility, which may have taken place back in 1979.

But as to substantial effort to make sure that most imagery is saved in a format that allows it to be accessed in the future, I have my doubts that is taking place.

Offline simonbp

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Re: Declassified KH-9 HEXAGON imagery is difficult to access
« Reply #22 on: 04/17/2014 07:23 pm »
Yup, the smaller hard cased floppies were 3.5".  I have a stack of them right beside me, I use them occasionally.

Amongst other sizes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk_variants

"Superfloppies" with the same form factor as 3.5-inch 1.44 MB floppy, but 100+ MB capacity, were briefly popular in the late 90s as an alternative to Zip drives before writable CDs became popular.

And then there was Jaz, the intended replacement for Zip drives which never took off. God help you if you need to read one of those nowadays.

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Declassified KH-9 HEXAGON imagery is difficult to access
« Reply #23 on: 04/17/2014 10:05 pm »
God help you if you needed to read a jaz disk even back then. They would corrupt faster than Clinton could corrupt interns.

Blackstar, for hidden bunkers I would go back further to before the site was modified. That way you could see what was moved. That hill looks new, let's see if we can pop it...

 I think it would be a fair bet that they are combing through the historical data on all the abandoned military bases along the Ukrainian border that Russia just re-activated.
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Declassified KH-9 HEXAGON imagery is difficult to access
« Reply #24 on: 04/18/2014 12:21 pm »
Blackstar, for hidden bunkers I would go back further to before the site was modified. That way you could see what was moved. That hill looks new, let's see if we can pop it...

Yes.

I have heard from a retired intelligence analyst who had only tangential involvement in looking for bunkers that apparently they're pretty difficult intelligence targets. I think he told me that they had one former Soviet person in the 1990s who told them about a rather large underground facility that the CIA had no idea existed. So that's certainly a case where you would want to go back over every image ever taken in that area.

Offline leovinus

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Re: Declassified KH-9 HEXAGON imagery is difficult to access
« Reply #25 on: 07/19/2020 10:29 pm »
A few years ago there was an announcement put out by a government agency (NGA or NARA?) asking for contract proposals to scan all the film and make it digitally available. I cannot find a link to that announcement--I think it was also posted to NSF so somebody here may be able to locate it after my search efforts failed--but it was clear that the original intention was to scan the imagery digitally. Obviously they never did that.

Might this RFI be the one?

Historical Imagery Digitization Data Project
Solicitation Number: HM1582-11-ACT-SN0001
Agency: Other Defense Agencies
Office: National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
Posted Date: February 14, 2011

https://www.fbo.gov/index?id=d84b37e005a0c76d147b0a8ee97f07fd

Edit: Maybe this url will work instead
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=d84b37e005a0c76d147b0a8ee97f07fd&tab=core&_cview=0

Apologies to revive this old thread. This is a fascinating topic as I do some normal and digital archeology, plus the intersections. More importantly, after this 2014 thread, I am trying to understand what the end result and storage is for the KH-9 HEXAGON images from [1,2] and discussed above.

Some quick googling turned up more questions than answers which is why pointers and conclusions are appreciated.

- Was there a positive response on the solicitation [1] to scan all images at high resolution?
- Or was only a subset scanned and made available at [3]?
- Are the original films stil at the Archives [2] ?
- Is there an easier to search index to these films and images these days, or still the initial CD as released to NARA?
- Is there a need for special readers or software?
- I do see that a subset of images might be available via [3] but is that the low or high resolution variant?
- How many more are in archives and in what format?

[1] Solicitation Number: HM1582-11-ACT-SN0001
https://fas.org/irp/news/2011/02/nga-imagery.pdf
[2] https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2003/nr03-02.html
[3] https://earthexplorer.usgs.gov

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Declassified KH-9 HEXAGON imagery is difficult to access
« Reply #26 on: 07/20/2020 03:15 am »
I think the material was taken out of NARA many years ago. But you're going to have to look online to find out how to order imagery. I know somebody who has obtained imagery of the US.

Offline leovinus

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Re: Declassified KH-9 HEXAGON imagery is difficult to access
« Reply #27 on: 08/01/2020 05:21 pm »
More importantly, after this 2014 thread, I am trying to understand what the end result and storage is for the KH-9 HEXAGON images from [1,2] and discussed above.

Some quick googling turned up more questions than answers which is why pointers and conclusions are appreciated.

- Was there a positive response on the solicitation [1] to scan all images at high resolution?
- Or was only a subset scanned and made available at [3]?
- Are the original films stil at the Archives [2] ?
- Is there an easier to search index to these films and images these days, or still the initial CD as released to NARA?
- Is there a need for special readers or software?
- I do see that a subset of images might be available via [3] but is that the low or high resolution variant?
- How many more are in archives and in what format?

I think the material was taken out of NARA many years ago. But you're going to have to look online to find out how to order imagery. I know somebody who has obtained imagery of the US.

TL;DR Searchable original images, yes. In permanent storage, yes. Easy to locate the correct film? Roundabout way. In any case, big thanks to NARA for their kind help!

After I contacted the National Archives and Records Administration(NARA), this is what was learned. First in story form and then concrete answers to the detailed questions above.

As mentioned earlier, I care about these high resolution images because of interest in archaeology. For certain area's in, e.g., England, I have the fly-over images of crop marks in the ground to compare, or shadows in the sea. Wouldn't it be nice to use these 'free' images to retrieve more of our history?

Regarding "where are the original films ?", you can view and scan any KH-9 Hexagon photo's at NARA, Maryland. They have light tables and a scanner to help. You can also use your iPhone to make a picture of the area of interest on the light table. NARA has the Original Negative (ON) Cans with original acetate film, negative image, in Lenexa, Kansas. When you want to see cans like ONxxxxxxx, you ask them a few days in advance and they will sent from Lenexa, Kansas (climate controlled storage) to Maryland. The reader room at NARA, Maryland is currently closed due to Covid. Therefore, go deeper at the moment. Some photo's have been digitized and are available via earthexplorer.usgs.gov. The search help from NARA (Comma separated text file .csv and Microsoft Access .mdb, which was converted to .csv as well) will indicate whether it is Original Negative (ON) or Digitized Positive (DP). The set of DP does not seem to identical to what they have at earthexplorer though.

Regarding "how to search on GPS coordinate?", NARA kindly sent several Comma separated text files .csv and Microsoft Access .mdb files with data on U-2, KH-7 and KH-9 images. As we want to search on GPS coordinate, and have no Microsoft Access, had to convert the .mdb files to ASCII .csv first. Next, there are two SQL tables related to KH-9. Searching for GPS is fun in two stages as the records (part1) have a polygon area description. No rectangle but a four sided polygon. As a first order approximation, the enclosing rectangle is used that to find hits. Then, a script was hacked up will search all KH-9 records whether the key GPS coordinate is inside the area of interest which gives a list of records. Then, in part2, other database, you find the "ON" designator via DATE and OP and can ask the National Archive to view it.

In summary, it looks like you can go to NARA, Maryland, Reader room, and deal with the database and .csv there, or just hack up your own database at home to identify ON, CANS, and barcodes of interest.

As always, an example helps :)

As mentioned in another L2 thread I pulled up all image hits for Boca Chica, TX, located at, North 25 59 29, West 97 11 01. Then, query the database with a script and location -v lat=255929 -v lon=0971101 (note the extra 0 on longitude) and you get e.g.

DATE,MISSION,BUCKET,SYSTEM,OP,Frame,Sub Frame,Camera,SE LAT,SE LON,NE LAT,NE LON,NW LAT,NW LON,SW LAT,SW LON
19720213,1202,3,KH-9,235,51,30,F,260654N,0973300E,261142N,0965334E,260140N,0965258E,255436N,0973339E
19720213,1202,3,KH-9,235,52,30,F,255844N,0973112E,260332N,0965146E,255331N,0965110E,254626N,0973151E
19730313,1205,1,KH-9,33,2,15,F,260918N,0973350E,261156N,0970437E,260213N,0970354E,255819N,0973336E
19730313,1205,1,KH-9,33,3,15,F,260057N,0973216E,260339N,0970307E,255356N,0970220E,255002N,0973202E
19730313,1205,1,KH-9,33,3,30,A,260708N,0973300E,260918N,0970256E,255938N,0970112E,255627N,0973018E
19730313,1205,1,KH-9,33,4,30,A,255848N,0973126E,260054N,0970122E,255118N,0965938E,254803N,0972844E
19740415,1208,1,KH-9,50,17,-30,A,261109N,0972103E,261525N,0963849E,260104N,0964134E,255913N,0972219E
19740415,1208,1,KH-9,50,17,-45,F,260545N,0972436E,261030N,0964409E,255634N,0963900E,255403N,0972114E
19740415,1208,1,KH-9,50,18,-30,A,260245N,0971940E,260701N,0963730E,255240N,0964015E,255049N,0972100E
19740415,1208,1,KH-9,50,18,-45,F,255721N,0972316E,260206N,0964254E,254810N,0963744E,254539N,0971955E
etc ... about 35 in total.

Fun data nuggets: First, there are "A" and "F" images for "Aft" and "Front" presumably. Those are the ones with great resolution. Second, you can see the camera angle 0/-30/-45 etc as well such that you can look for the best angle and shot.

Now you can either go into earthexplorer, use DECLASS 2 or 3 files, and search for Boca Chica, TX (a few hits, then compare the dates with the NARA data and sometimes but not always, the earthexplorer hits are a subset of the NARA databases I was sent). Example image in the other thread.  Currently, no explanation why earthexplorer sometimes has other dates and shots than NARA but that I was told that "USGS EarthExplorer are not marked in our spreadsheets".

Or, you can do another database query with,e.g., DATE=19720213and OP=235 fields from above, to get

RG,NARA Can,Location,Roll,Barcode,Notes,Agency #,Series,Mission,Pass,Camera,Date,First Exp,Last Exp,Finding Aid,Preservation
"537","ON188593","Lenexa","F023034","T359122894","537-13-10","37777002786366","KH-9","1202-3","235"," F","19720213",,,,
"537","ON191513","Lenexa","F023025","T359125816","537-13-10","37777002786275","KH-9","1202-3","235"," F","19720213",,,,

and decide which ON188593 or ON191513 "can" you actually need. In this example, there are 2 hits, not sure why. Both "F" camera, so .... ?
 
In any case, a request to view cans at the National Archives should include both "NARA Can" and "Barcode".

Looping back to the earlier, more detailed questions,

>- Was there a positive response on the solicitation [1] to scan all images at high resolution?
The question was asked and the answer was "No". Still at NARA in original format and cold storage, not digitized. Maybe one of the spacefaring billionaires could contribute?

>- Or was only a subset scanned and made available at [3]?
Yes, subset, earthexplorer.usgs.gov. A few others are digitized and marked DP in the search help database.

>- Are the original films stil at the Archives [2] ?
Yes, Lenexa, KS, cold storage of original film.

>- Is there an easier to search index to these films and images these days, or still the initial CD as released to NARA?
>- Is there a need for special readers or software?
Kind of. After my initial question, NARA kindly sent me .csv and Microsoft Access .mdb files to search and correlate. My goal was and is to search based on GPS coordinates. After a spout of IT work, the .mdb files were converted to .csv as well. Then, a rudimentary search tool was coded up based on the ASCII files. Now you can search on GPS coordinate.

>- Is there a need for special readers or software?
According to NARA, once you visit in person and the original films are there, you can uses their light tables to search for your area of interest and scan with their scanner, or use your iPhone.

In other words, at home, you can search for the "cans" of interest based on GPS key, and then visit the NARA to make copies in person. But you cannot see the original films from home.

>- I do see that a subset of images might be available via [3] but is that the low or high resolution variant?
Earthexplorer has low-res copies online and you can order the high-res version but the spec is not clear.
Some search indicates the that the high-res version is one of the "A" and "F" camera with about 2 foot resolution.

>- How many more are in archives and in what format?
2363458 KH-9 records DATE,MISSION,BUCKET,SYSTEM,OP,Frame,Sub Frame,Camera,SE LAT,SE LON,NE LAT,NE LON,NW LAT,NW LON,SW LAT,SW LON
43609 NARA Cans with Original Negative (ON)
3168  NARA Cans with Digitize Positives (DP)
19 KH-9 missions 1201 to 1219

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