Author Topic: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP  (Read 199440 times)

Online yg1968

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #80 on: 11/10/2021 02:55 am »
Jim Free at 35 minutes of the press conference of today said that the first spacesuits would go to the ISS. He then said that the first demo mission for the spacesuit is due in 2024.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48676.msg2308524#msg2308524
« Last Edit: 11/10/2021 03:29 am by yg1968 »

Online yg1968

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #81 on: 11/11/2021 01:14 pm »
One thing that I wanted to clarify. People keep saying that the suits for the Moon have been delayed to 2025. That information comes from the IG Report but they were talking about the xEMU suits which will NOT be made.

The exact date of when the commercial suits will be ready is undetermined. NASA has only stated that it wants a demo unit to be ready in 2024 (presumably that demo spacesuit will be tested at the ISS).

From the latest (November 10th) RFP:

Quote from: page 20 of the RFP
NASA’s intent is to transition from the traditional Government-owned hardware model to an “EVA as a Service” model. The goal is to achieve one or more EVA service demonstrations as early as 2024, and the full suite of commercial EVA services beginning as soon as feasible thereafter to meet the continued NASA demand.

https://sam.gov/opp/deb12a4a94584c809a76f5648aefcb52/view

Attached is the final November 10th 2021 RFP. The final systems requirement is also attached.
« Last Edit: 09/07/2022 10:38 pm by yg1968 »

Online yg1968

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #82 on: 11/11/2021 01:22 pm »
Incidentally, the due date for the proposals has now been pushed (from December 1st) to December 14th.

https://sam.gov/opp/deb12a4a94584c809a76f5648aefcb52/view
« Last Edit: 11/11/2021 01:43 pm by yg1968 »

Online yg1968

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #83 on: 11/15/2021 03:22 pm »
From today's IG Report:

Quote from: pages 16 and 17 of the IG Report
Spacesuits Encountering Continuous Delays

Prior to 2019, NASA planned to design, test, develop, and provide next-generation Exploration Extravehicular Mobility Unit (xEMU) spacesuits to the ISS by 2023 and to the Artemis III mission by 2028. However, when the timeline for Artemis III was accelerated, NASA was required to fast-track its schedule by 4 years.  Since then, delivery of the spacesuits necessary for lunar expeditions have been delayed due to technical challenges, funding shortfalls, and COVID-19 impacts.  AES schedules indicate that the projected delivery date for the ISS demonstration and Artemis III spacesuits is December 2024. Given the subsequent integration requirements, the suits will not be ready for flight until May 2025 at the earliest, making the suits and associated hardware unavailable for a planned 2024 lunar landing. In August 2021, we reported that given the projected delays and lack of contingency plans, the current pace of spacesuit development will preclude a 2024 crewed lunar landing.[34]  We also projected that by the time two flight-ready spacesuits are completed, NASA will have spent over a billion dollars on the development and assembly of its next-generation spacesuits, along with development of associated Extravehicular Activity (EVA) tools and equipment and upgrade of aging EVA facilities and infrastructure. Going forward, NASA officials told us that they plan to reduce technical risks for a future services contract by using an online Technical Library for spacesuit components and assemblies accessible by potential contractors, and through planned on-orbit testing of spacesuit components to increase their technical maturity.  While this will be helpful for companies competing for and receiving a spacesuit contract, even with these modifications in approach, we determined the new spacesuits will still not be ready by 2024.

[34] IG-21-025

Quote from: page 53 of the IG Report
However, in April 2021, the Agency altered their acquisition approach for the suits, opting to instead utilize a commercial services approach to acquire EVA services for the ISS, Artemis, and other advanced programs.  Similar to the commercial crew and cargo efforts, the approach will involve NASA paying for contractor-developed suits as opposed to building the suits in-house or purchasing the suits outright.

https://oig.nasa.gov/docs/IG-22-003.pdf 
« Last Edit: 11/15/2021 03:41 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Shane421

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #84 on: 11/17/2021 04:11 am »
One thing that I wanted to clarify. People keep saying that the suits for the Moon have been delayed to 2025. That information comes from the IG Report but they were talking about the xEMU suits which will NOT be made.

The exact date of when the commercial suits will be ready is undetermined. NASA has only stated that it wants a demo unit to be ready in 2024 (presumably that demo spacesuit will be tested at the ISS).


While it isn't guaranteed, I'm pretty sure that much or even most of the xEMU design will be picked up by the commercial vendor. I don't see how there is any other feasible way that any company can meet the schedule that the solicitation outlines. So at the very least, it's presumptive and a bit reductionist to say that the xEMU won't be made - because at this point, no one can actually know. The procurement will bear this out.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2021 06:07 am by Shane421 »

Online yg1968

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #85 on: 11/17/2021 03:23 pm »
One thing that I wanted to clarify. People keep saying that the suits for the Moon have been delayed to 2025. That information comes from the IG Report but they were talking about the xEMU suits which will NOT be made.

The exact date of when the commercial suits will be ready is undetermined. NASA has only stated that it wants a demo unit to be ready in 2024 (presumably that demo spacesuit will be tested at the ISS).


While it isn't guaranteed, I'm pretty sure that much or even most of the xEMU design will be picked up by the commercial vendor. I don't see how there is any other feasible way that any company can meet the schedule that the solicitation outlines. So at the very least, it's presumptive and a bit reductionist to say that the xEMU won't be made - because at this point, no one can actually know. The procurement will bear this out.

Yes, it is possible (and perhaps even likely) that the providers will be inspired by the xEMU but it wouldn't technically be the xEMU anymore (it would only be a design that is inspired by the xEMU). But I see your point in saying that the xEMU efforts weren't done in vain as they will help the commercial providers build their own spacesuits. That is a good point.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2021 03:33 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Shane421

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #86 on: 11/17/2021 04:08 pm »

Yes, it is possible (and perhaps even likely) that the providers will be inspired by the xEMU but it wouldn't technically be the xEMU anymore (it would only be a design that is inspired by the xEMU). But I see your point in saying that the xEMU efforts weren't done in vain as they will help the commercial providers build their own spacesuits. That is a good point.
I think it's even more subtle than that. 

Originally, the plan was for the xEMU to be given to a vendor after qual, to build to print and provide sustaining engineering services. Even in that scenario, since the xEMU is at DVT today and not qual, you could make the argument that the xEMU as it is currently designed is not the xEMU that would eventually fly.

Now with the pivot to commercial services, it opens up the possibility for the vendor to adopt all, most, some or none of the xEMU design as it currently stands (or will stand when the vendor comes online).  Whatever ends up flying at the end of the day could be 0%, 20%, 50%, 75%, or 99% of the xEMU design. We don't know and nobody will know until the ink dries on a procurement award.  But I do expect that given the schedule pressure and the competitive nature of the bidding process, that there is an incentive to leverage the xEMU design to a significant extent. I don't think it's just inspiration - I think it's straight up design.  I could be wrong - we'll see.

Now, whether the suit ends up being called xEMU or it's called something else is a matter of trivial detail that isn't really germane to the discussion.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2021 05:16 pm by Shane421 »

Online yg1968

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #87 on: 11/18/2021 12:43 am »
You are right that NASA was going to make the first xEMU units and then subcontract it to the private sector. In any event, you make a good point that the xEMU will be useful for the xEVA program.
« Last Edit: 11/18/2021 12:45 am by yg1968 »

Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #88 on: 11/18/2021 11:22 pm »
It's also not obvious that that will continue to be the plan, given that it was predicated on the lander only being able to house two crew for the duration (only going up to four after a habitat is available).  After the selection of Starship for HLS, they probably started questioning whether they are willing to leave Orion empty while not docked to Gateway so they can get eight boots on the surface... but not officially investigating that because the contract hasn't actually been issued yet.

But they will almost certainly be sending the suits up in the lander either way, and there's more than enough space for four.  The other question is how quickly the suits can be produced; it's already going to be tight, they might adapt the plan depending on how many are available

The original plan was 2 on Gateway and 2 on HLS. I'm not so much sure it was a desire to only have 2 on the Moon so much as to have 2 on Gateway in theory doing science from Gateway.

Then Gateway got pushed back.

Bit lousy for the two folk stuck in Orion for a bit while their lucky colleagues go to the Moon.

Offline guckyfan

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #89 on: 11/19/2021 04:23 pm »
...........
Now with the pivot to commercial services, it opens up the possibility for the vendor to adopt all, most, some or none of the xEMU design as it currently stands (or will stand when the vendor comes online).  Whatever ends up flying at the end of the day could be 0%, 20%, 50%, 75%, or 99% of the xEMU design. We don't know and nobody will know until the ink dries on a procurement award.  But I do expect that given the schedule pressure and the competitive nature of the bidding process, that there is an incentive to leverage the xEMU design to a significant extent. I don't think it's just inspiration - I think it's straight up design.  I could be wrong - we'll see.

Now, whether the suit ends up being called xEMU or it's called something else is a matter of trivial detail that isn't really germane to the discussion.

If there is anything to the remark of Elon Musk, that they can provide a Moon suit by 2024, then SpaceX must have some advanced state of development for a surface suit. Which would be nothing like xEMU.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #90 on: 11/19/2021 05:31 pm »
.....
If there is anything to the remark of Elon Musk, that they can provide a Moon suit by 2024, then SpaceX must have some advanced state of development for a surface suit. Which would be nothing like xEMU.


Maybe SpaceX will employed José Fernández again to conceptualized a Moonsuit look for the engineers to make into reality.


P.S. Hopefully something in scarlet and gold  ;)

Online yg1968

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #91 on: 11/23/2021 05:00 pm »
« Last Edit: 11/23/2021 06:12 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Scintillant

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #92 on: 11/23/2021 08:40 pm »
A quick edit of the above suit image to boost the brightness and pick out some details.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #93 on: 11/24/2021 12:55 am »
A quick edit of the above suit image to boost the brightness and pick out some details.


Looks similar to the EVA suit from ILC Dover.

Offline woods170

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #94 on: 11/24/2021 08:37 am »
A quick edit of the above suit image to boost the brightness and pick out some details.


Looks similar to the EVA suit from ILC Dover.

Shouldn't be surprising. ILC Dover's 'Astro' suit is a co-development between ILC Dover and Collins Aerospace. That latter company does a lot of work, including (but not exclusively) work on life support systems, for Axiom Space.
Axiom has also hired several spacesuit designers and engineers that previously worked for ILC Dover.

Online yg1968

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #95 on: 12/14/2021 06:16 pm »
Proposals are due today.

Sometimes companies will reveal details of their proposals after the due date.

Contract awards are currently scheduled to be made on April 28th 2022:
https://procurement.jsc.nasa.gov/xevas/schedule.asp
« Last Edit: 01/13/2022 11:25 pm by yg1968 »

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #96 on: 12/14/2021 06:53 pm »
Proposals are due today.

Some times companies will reveal details of their proposals after the due date.
In the old days sometimes companies would create multiple proposals and then pick one of them at the very last minute based on who is still competing.  Usually, only the price was different in these proposals, but sometimes features were deleted or modified also. I have no idea if this still happens, or if the concept of "last minute" has changed. I personally saw this in a bid for a mainframe computer, where we required the proposal to be submitted as a paper copy in our office at a particular time and date. Salespeople from 5 companies of the seven qualified vendors showed up and sat in the office until one minute before the deadline. Each of them picked one of their pre-prepared option folders based on who was in the office and submitted it.

Offline Yiosie

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #97 on: 01/19/2022 07:44 pm »
Contracts are scheduled to be awarded in April:

https://twitter.com/genejm29/status/1483881071959760900

Quote
#NASA #HEO #NAC - On new suits, was part of the Gateway program initially, development a suit to replace EMU's high priority to get new suit developed, have a procurement out now. Mobility is key. Want a wider range of human sizes, & more time to operate at higher pressure

Slide text:

Quote
• xEVA Services (xEVAS) procurement to provide suits for ISS, Gateway and the lunar surface
   • Proposals received on Dec 14th, 2021
   • Targeting contract award April 2022
• Continued strong government-based risk reduction work
   • Initiated exploration Extravehicular Mobility Unit (xEMU) design verification testing (DVT) of the pressure garment subsystem (PGS) and portable life support subsystem (PLSS)
      • Primary and auxiliary Thermal Control Loop testing
      • Helmet light and camera assembly vibration testing
      • Antenna pattern testing
      • PGS partial gravity mobility evaluations at Active Response Gravity Off-load System facility (ARGOS)
   • Successfully completed first human-in-the-loop test series in upgraded 20ft Chamber test facility
   • Successfully completed fifth of six planned on-orbit simulated EVA series with the Spacesuit Evaporation Rejection Flight Experiment (SERFE) following a planned 210d dwell period
   • Test data and reports will be added to EVA Technical Library to reduce risk for future xEVAS partner(s)

Online yg1968

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #98 on: 01/20/2022 04:01 am »

Online yg1968

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Re: Commercial Spacesuits Services RFI and RFP
« Reply #99 on: 02/14/2022 01:01 pm »
The article below says that SpaceX is already working on advanced spacesuits. It seems that SpaceX will be working on these spacesuits regardless of whether it wins an award for this RFP. In my opinion, this news actually increases the odds of SpaceX winning an award. NASA wants to be one of many customers and it helps when a company can show that it already has other customers. 

https://twitter.com/wapodavenport/status/1493210025048911874

Jared Isaacman, who led the first all-private astronaut mission to orbit, has commissioned 3 more flights from SpaceX:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/02/14/jared-isaacman-polaris-spacex-starship-inspiration4/

Quote from: the article
Isaacman will be the commander of the first Polaris flight, known as Polaris Dawn. He’ll be joined by Scott “Kidd” Poteet, a former Air Force pilot who served as the mission director for Inspiration4, and two SpaceX lead operation engineers, Sarah Gillis and Anna Menon, who help prepare astronauts for flights on the company’s Dragon spacecraft. The four got to know one another during the Inspiration4 mission and have “a foundation of trust they can build upon as they undertake the challenges of this mission,” the crew said in a statement. [...]

Isaacman said it had not yet been decided whether everyone would get the chance to venture outside and that it was one of many details of the operation that are still being worked out. To perform the spacewalk, SpaceX is developing more advanced spacesuits that would keep the astronauts safe in the vacuum of space.
« Last Edit: 02/14/2022 01:02 pm by yg1968 »

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