Author Topic: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3  (Read 343399 times)

Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #60 on: 03/08/2022 04:21 pm »
I'm not interested in use while in motion .  But it sounds like dishy can be used when stopped while traveling .
I'm retired and on the waiting list . I hope this feature remains on after I receive one !!
« Last Edit: 03/08/2022 04:22 pm by sauerkraut »

Offline jpo234

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #61 on: 03/08/2022 08:51 pm »
U.S. general: Starlink in Ukraine showing what megaconstellations can do

Quote
“What we’re seeing with Elon Musk and the Starlink capabilities is really showing us what a megaconstellation or a proliferated architecture can provide in terms of redundancy and capability,” Gen. James Dickinson, commander of U.S. Space Command, said during a hearing the Senate Armed Services Committee.
« Last Edit: 03/08/2022 08:53 pm by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Robotical

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #62 on: 03/08/2022 09:53 pm »
U.S. general: Starlink in Ukraine showing what megaconstellations can do

Quote
“What we’re seeing with Elon Musk and the Starlink capabilities is really showing us what a megaconstellation or a proliferated architecture can provide in terms of redundancy and capability,” Gen. James Dickinson, commander of U.S. Space Command, said during a hearing the Senate Armed Services Committee.

And Starship just became a national security priority. With how things are falling for SpaceX (not to mention Tesla), I'm starting to wonder if Musk somehow arranged the current conflict, lol.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #63 on: 03/09/2022 07:25 am »
Just out of curiosity, is the current Starlink terminal capable of randomly switching in timing to a different Starlink satcom in view?

Offline Tomness

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #64 on: 03/09/2022 11:56 am »
Just out of curiosity, is the current Starlink terminal capable of randomly switching in timing to a different Starlink satcom in view?
They had an update months ago that automatically switches to your best sat. Does a sat switch over in phases.

Offline Ludus

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #65 on: 03/09/2022 02:47 pm »
U.S. general: Starlink in Ukraine showing what megaconstellations can do

Quote
“What we’re seeing with Elon Musk and the Starlink capabilities is really showing us what a megaconstellation or a proliferated architecture can provide in terms of redundancy and capability,” Gen. James Dickinson, commander of U.S. Space Command, said during a hearing the Senate Armed Services Committee.

And Starship just became a national security priority. With how things are falling for SpaceX (not to mention Tesla), I'm starting to wonder if Musk somehow arranged the current conflict, lol.

No more Ukrainian engines for Antares. No more Russian Engines for ULA Atlas. No more One Web launches by Russia. Starlink global showcase as a critical com tech battle tested by full on Russian efforts to hack, jam or detect it. Starship seen as a critical national security asset. Ultra high gas prices display value of Teslas. Teslas still operate in Ukraine when ICE vehicles have no fuel. SpaceX critical to ISS. Yep, a pretty long list.

Offline spacenut

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #66 on: 03/09/2022 02:51 pm »
I too am waiting for a mobile Starlink satellite dish and equipment.  I too am retired and want to travel, but have access to my retirement accounts and keep up with what is going on.

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #67 on: 03/09/2022 03:07 pm »
Just out of curiosity, is the current Starlink terminal capable of randomly switching in timing to a different Starlink satcom in view?
They had an update months ago that automatically switches to your best sat. Does a sat switch over in phases.
Each satellite produces several beams that cover an area more or less below the satellite. Unless you are in a satellite's beam you cannot communicate with the satellite because it is not looking at you. In general only one or sometimes two satellites are looking at any given spot on the Earth's surface, so you cannot switch to some other satellite just because it's in the line of sight.

All of the users currently in a beam share the beam using some multiple-access protocol built on some combination of TDMA and FDMA elements. This sharing requires the Starlink system to allocate a portion of the beam to each user. This is generally done by  broadcasting the time/frequency plan from the satellite to all terminals. Each terminal then knows when to transmit. I am not familiar with the details of all this for Starlink, so I'm describing the principles used for other satellite communications, but they are fairly fundamental because of the nature of shared RF communications, including e.g. cell phones and cell towers. There are huge differences at the detail level to optimize bandwidth efficiency based on each specific system architecture.

Offline Jim

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #68 on: 03/09/2022 04:36 pm »
U.S. general: Starlink in Ukraine showing what megaconstellations can do

Quote
“What we’re seeing with Elon Musk and the Starlink capabilities is really showing us what a megaconstellation or a proliferated architecture can provide in terms of redundancy and capability,” Gen. James Dickinson, commander of U.S. Space Command, said during a hearing the Senate Armed Services Committee.

And Starship just became a national security priority. With how things are falling for SpaceX (not to mention Tesla), I'm starting to wonder if Musk somehow arranged the current conflict, lol.

Nonsense.  F9 and Vulcan have it covered 

Offline dondar

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #69 on: 03/09/2022 05:13 pm »
Just out of curiosity, is the current Starlink terminal capable of randomly switching in timing to a different Starlink satcom in view?
They had an update months ago that automatically switches to your best sat. Does a sat switch over in phases.
Each satellite produces several beams that cover an area more or less below the satellite. Unless you are in a satellite's beam you cannot communicate with the satellite because it is not looking at you. In general only one or sometimes two satellites are looking at any given spot on the Earth's surface, so you cannot switch to some other satellite just because it's in the line of sight.

All of the users currently in a beam share the beam using some multiple-access protocol built on some combination of TDMA and FDMA elements. This sharing requires the Starlink system to allocate a portion of the beam to each user. This is generally done by  broadcasting the time/frequency plan from the satellite to all terminals. Each terminal then knows when to transmit. I am not familiar with the details of all this for Starlink, so I'm describing the principles used for other satellite communications, but they are fairly fundamental because of the nature of shared RF communications, including e.g. cell phones and cell towers. There are huge differences at the detail level to optimize bandwidth efficiency based on each specific system architecture.
the frequency/bandwidth allocation (they are far from the same things) can be done asynchronously or semi-asynchronously. The algorithms exist.
It's funny how the old (and never officially finalized) multirate MC DS-CDMA toolkit is becoming more and more important.

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #70 on: 03/09/2022 05:15 pm »
With 2000 operational sats and 50 sats per plane. That is 40 planes full of sats. Since you can see a plane in ascending and descending it effectively doubles the density of the number of planes in view. Such that a Gateway or UT can see right now up to 9 sats and connect to them. The reason why the Gateways were setup to communicate to as many as 9 sats at once. The minimum numbers would be about 5 or 6 sats. The farther away from the gateway you are the less sats that are connected to a specific gateway that a UT can connect to.

In specific with Ukraine at a mean latitude of 49 degrees. That means that there is a lot more than just 5 planes in view but around 10 planes or more in view and as many as 18 or more sats are in view for connection.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #71 on: 03/09/2022 06:26 pm »
With 2000 operational sats and 50 sats per plane. That is 40 planes full of sats. Since you can see a plane in ascending and descending it effectively doubles the density of the number of planes in view. Such that a Gateway or UT can see right now up to 9 sats and connect to them. The reason why the Gateways were setup to communicate to as many as 9 sats at once. The minimum numbers would be about 5 or 6 sats. The farther away from the gateway you are the less sats that are connected to a specific gateway that a UT can connect to.

In specific with Ukraine at a mean latitude of 49 degrees. That means that there is a lot more than just 5 planes in view but around 10 planes or more in view and as many as 18 or more sats are in view for connection.
I thought there were only 22 sats per plane and 72 planes for each of the two low inclination shells.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline su27k

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #72 on: 03/10/2022 02:37 am »
U.S. general: Starlink in Ukraine showing what megaconstellations can do

Quote
“What we’re seeing with Elon Musk and the Starlink capabilities is really showing us what a megaconstellation or a proliferated architecture can provide in terms of redundancy and capability,” Gen. James Dickinson, commander of U.S. Space Command, said during a hearing the Senate Armed Services Committee.

And Starship just became a national security priority. With how things are falling for SpaceX (not to mention Tesla), I'm starting to wonder if Musk somehow arranged the current conflict, lol.

Nonsense.  F9 and Vulcan have it covered

Not with Gen2 they can't, remember this is Starlink thread. As Musk's leaked email indicated, the future of Starlink is intricately linked with Starship, they're one and the same.

Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #73 on: 03/13/2022 02:10 am »
I'm not interested in use while in motion .  But it sounds like dishy can be used when stopped while traveling .
I'm retired and on the waiting list . I hope this feature remains on after I receive one !!
Not standard capability. A lot of people have lost connectivity when they moved the dish a few miles with a message telling them it's in the wrong place.
I know there was talk about being able to use the dish in multiple places .. Elon said it would be enabled this winter ..
I know that sometimes estimates are optimistic .. My dish has been put off until mid 2022 .. Hoping the multiple
location feature will be enabled by then !!
« Last Edit: 03/13/2022 02:13 am by sauerkraut »

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #74 on: 03/13/2022 09:23 am »
For your amusement. A not so favorable interview about Starlink and Musk.

I believed this is the same Tim Farrar that is mention elsewhere on this forum bad mouthing Starlink and Musk.

The man still hasn't realize that no one have launch capacity along with satellite development  and manufacturing capacity in house like SpaceX.

One of the comment from the video is that Tim Farrar on Starlink sounds a lot like former GM executive Bob Lutz on Tesla. Lutz keep on saying the competition is coming to drive Tesla out of business for years. Even with 2 Tesla Gigafactory coming online soon, Tesla can not produce enough cars to meet demand.




Offline Nomadd

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #75 on: 03/13/2022 02:10 pm »
For your amusement. A not so favorable interview about Starlink and Musk.

I believed this is the same Tim Farrar that is mention elsewhere on this forum bad mouthing Starlink and Musk.

The man still hasn't realize that no one have launch capacity along with satellite development  and manufacturing capacity in house like SpaceX.

One of the comment from the video is that Tim Farrar on Starlink sounds a lot like former GM executive Bob Lutz on Tesla. Lutz keep on saying the competition is coming to drive Tesla out of business for years. Even with 2 Tesla Gigafactory coming online soon, Tesla can not produce enough cars to meet demand.



 Yeah...Unless you have 15 minutes to waste, I wouldn't advise trying to get anything out of that drivel. He says exactly nothing in all that time.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline Nilof

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #76 on: 03/13/2022 06:18 pm »
General idea I just had. I looked at the wikipedia article for the SDI "brilliant pebbles" program. The idea was to have a large number of cheap satellites in orbit, that could change their orbit to intersect an ICBM if one was launched.

The estimated number of sacrificial satellite to stop a mass soviet nuclear strike against the US was 7000, but possibly up to ten times that if you wanted global coverage. Starlink is very close to this ballpark. Could Starlink itself, or a system based on it, be given a dual use as an ABM system?

Between Starship and the capability of mass producing cheap spacecraft for Starlink, it looks to me like SpaceX basically could have the capability to launch an ABM system capable of eliminating the Russian land-based ICBM threat in fairly short order, though the SLBM threat vector is a lot harder to deal with.
For a variable Isp spacecraft running at constant power and constant acceleration, the mass ratio is linear in delta-v.   Δv = ve0(MR-1). Or equivalently: Δv = vef PMF. Also, this is energy-optimal for a fixed delta-v and mass ratio.

Offline ulm_atms

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #77 on: 03/13/2022 06:34 pm »
General idea I just had. I looked at the wikipedia article for the SDI "brilliant pebbles" program. The idea was to have a large number of cheap satellites in orbit, that could change their orbit to intersect an ICBM if one was launched.

The estimated number of sacrificial satellite to stop a mass soviet nuclear strike against the US was 7000, but possibly up to ten times that if you wanted global coverage. Starlink is very close to this ballpark. Could Starlink itself, or a system based on it, be given a dual use as an ABM system?

Between Starship and the capability of mass producing cheap spacecraft for Starlink, it looks to me like SpaceX basically could have the capability to launch an ABM system capable of eliminating the Russian land-based ICBM threat in fairly short order, though the SLBM threat vector is a lot harder to deal with.
Please for the love of all good things let NOT get into weapon system discussions again.  Every thread gets locked eventually (or mass post delete).

And to answer your question, once at most.  After that there would be so much debris that we would indeed have Kessler Syndrome happening and loose the ability to do a lot of good in that space that is now useless.

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #78 on: 03/13/2022 06:53 pm »
Note: I worked the SDI program as the Deputy Test Director. Both of you have a passel of very bad assumptions. If you would like a critique send me a message.

This split from this this thread I consider now closed.

Re: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #79 on: 03/16/2022 05:29 am »
Is there a relation between the Operation start date in the FCC filing and the actual launch date? probably no but for the launches which spacex has direct control over the launch dates i.e starlink and transporter launches, there is some sort of a loose protocol i believe. To examine this i just gathered info from the NASA Spaceflight forums on the FCC filings and for the launch dates (initial planned launch dates confirmed by sources and not considering delayed launch date ) i used Space Launch now app.
As highlighted in the image a lot of the launches are scheduled for 10-13 days after the Operation Start date in the FCC filings. I am no expert in this matter, just curious about this and was wondering whether it can be used to predict future starlink launches to some extent or narrow down the time frame.

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