What program is this? NASA?
Artemis: Sustainable Lunar Exploration - VBS 2020 (the presentation was on October 26th 2020 but was just recently posted on YouTube):Addendum: I have attached the slides a few posts below this one.
#1 This discussion is going OT for this thread. Need to move to or create a thread for a Lunar Base. #2 All subsequent base and station efforts will that of a NASA encouraged commercial effort vs a NASA led and fully funded effort. This is due to the emerging ISS model of LEO stations going all commercial for NASA. Do not expect Gateway to do much direct funded expansion but only likely commercial add on modules and then eventually a complete commercial replacement or takeover at that not long into it's life.So expecting any NASA funding for new bases/stations is going to be a wish list that is unlikely to come to pass. Individual pieces of unique exploration hardware is the exception. This is to gather certain scientific data that commercial may not be interested in funding.
Quote from: oldAtlas_Eguy on 02/15/2022 06:52 pm#1 This discussion is going OT for this thread. Need to move to or create a thread for a Lunar Base. #2 All subsequent base and station efforts will that of a NASA encouraged commercial effort vs a NASA led and fully funded effort. This is due to the emerging ISS model of LEO stations going all commercial for NASA. Do not expect Gateway to do much direct funded expansion but only likely commercial add on modules and then eventually a complete commercial replacement or takeover at that not long into it's life.So expecting any NASA funding for new bases/stations is going to be a wish list that is unlikely to come to pass. Individual pieces of unique exploration hardware is the exception. This is to gather certain scientific data that commercial may not be interested in funding.I am not sure if NASA has decided what kind of acquisition will be done for the foundation surface habitat. I imagine that it could take the form of services. That would be my preferred option.
Quote from: DreamyPickle on 02/15/2022 03:18 pmQuote from: Lee Jay on 02/15/2022 02:10 pmQuote from: su27k on 02/15/2022 03:11 amAnd even if you assume a lunar base is just for soft power, that's enough of a reason for US to have one as well. It's the same as space stations, if you haven't noticed there're a lot of chattering in Congress about not allowing a space station gap.Space stations have a purpose - research. A lunar base has no real purpose and, in fact, I'd argue it's the exact opposite of what we should be doing - exploration and research.I really don't understand this sort of cynicism.Humans have never lived on a extraterrestrial surface for any extended period of time and we have no long-term data for survival at G values other than 0 and 1, or outside the earth's magnetosphere. This is regularly brought up as an issue for Mars trips and a moon base would go a long way towards retiring such risks.A lunar base can also be used for research into ISRU technologies with an essentially an infinite supply of raw material. This can't be done in LEO where all mass needs to be launched from Earth and accounted for into station keeping.The long term goal should be to demonstrate extraction of oxygen, hydrogen (if feasible) and actual in-space construction using local materials.You can also build large in-vacuum prototype manufacturing facilities using the .16 g to avoid floundering around in 0 g, to use all that raw material. Easier to build on the Moon where you already have a surface as a rigid platform than it is to build a factory in LEO where you need to start by building a rigid structure.
Quote from: Lee Jay on 02/15/2022 02:10 pmQuote from: su27k on 02/15/2022 03:11 amAnd even if you assume a lunar base is just for soft power, that's enough of a reason for US to have one as well. It's the same as space stations, if you haven't noticed there're a lot of chattering in Congress about not allowing a space station gap.Space stations have a purpose - research. A lunar base has no real purpose and, in fact, I'd argue it's the exact opposite of what we should be doing - exploration and research.I really don't understand this sort of cynicism.Humans have never lived on a extraterrestrial surface for any extended period of time and we have no long-term data for survival at G values other than 0 and 1, or outside the earth's magnetosphere. This is regularly brought up as an issue for Mars trips and a moon base would go a long way towards retiring such risks.A lunar base can also be used for research into ISRU technologies with an essentially an infinite supply of raw material. This can't be done in LEO where all mass needs to be launched from Earth and accounted for into station keeping.The long term goal should be to demonstrate extraction of oxygen, hydrogen (if feasible) and actual in-space construction using local materials.
Quote from: su27k on 02/15/2022 03:11 amAnd even if you assume a lunar base is just for soft power, that's enough of a reason for US to have one as well. It's the same as space stations, if you haven't noticed there're a lot of chattering in Congress about not allowing a space station gap.Space stations have a purpose - research. A lunar base has no real purpose and, in fact, I'd argue it's the exact opposite of what we should be doing - exploration and research.
And even if you assume a lunar base is just for soft power, that's enough of a reason for US to have one as well. It's the same as space stations, if you haven't noticed there're a lot of chattering in Congress about not allowing a space station gap.
Yep, there're also a lot more science they can do, like study of the Moon itself, also prospecting for useful materials for potential commercial mining activities. The far side is also a good location for radio astronomy. The research that can be done on the lunar surface far exceed the research can be done on ISS.
If you look at the image of NASA's foundation surface habitats, it's essentially a lander with a habitat on top of it. I would expect that SpaceX and the other lander provider would have a huge advantage over any other company in a solicitation for a foundation surface habitat.
Quote from: yg1968 on 02/16/2022 02:02 amIf you look at the image of NASA's foundation surface habitats, it's essentially a lander with a habitat on top of it. I would expect that SpaceX and the other lander provider would have a huge advantage over any other company in a solicitation for a foundation surface habitat. SpaceX will be able to bid an already developed HLS. It would be nice to be on the surface though and not elevated.A surface HAB that can be expanded with multiple airlocks and branching into other HAB space. But maybe, having a small, basic HAB as a starting point is the right way to go.
