Author Topic: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates  (Read 631597 times)

Offline Blackstar

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1340 on: 07/01/2021 07:48 pm »
I heard a senior NASA official say yesterday that they're looking forward to an August Ariane launch (by which I took him to mean that they'll breathe easier once they see the results of that flight).

Offline Jim

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1341 on: 07/01/2021 09:45 pm »
I know the modified fairing has been tested on another flight. Has the new vehicle attitude program also been tried out for real?

It is just a roll program that most launch vehicles do for long coasts

Offline bolun

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1342 on: 07/03/2021 05:47 pm »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1343 on: 07/06/2021 07:15 pm »
https://spacenews.com/jwst-passes-launch-review/

Quote
JWST passes launch review
by Jeff Foust — July 6, 2021

WASHINGTON — The James Webb Space Telescope is one step closer to launch after a review of its Ariane launch vehicle […]

The European Space Agency announced July 1 that it, along with Arianespace, had successfully completed the final mission analysis review for the launch of JWST on an Ariane 5.

Offline deadman1204

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1344 on: 07/08/2021 01:59 pm »
https://spacenews.com/jwst-passes-launch-review/

Quote
JWST passes launch review
by Jeff Foust — July 6, 2021

WASHINGTON — The James Webb Space Telescope is one step closer to launch after a review of its Ariane launch vehicle […]

The European Space Agency announced July 1 that it, along with Arianespace, had successfully completed the final mission analysis review for the launch of JWST on an Ariane 5.
Super happy about this. The Ariane 5 fairing issues was the last big question mark about launching. This November is looking more and more likely

Offline su27k

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1345 on: 07/10/2021 02:44 am »
https://spacenews.com/jwst-passes-launch-review/

Quote
One open item has nothing to do with the spacecraft itself, but rather its name. NASA renamed what was originally known as the Next Generation Space Telescope in 2002 after James Webb, who was NASA administrator from 1961 and 1968 and is credited for guiding the agency through the development of the Apollo program while also supporting science missions.

That choice has come under scrutiny in recent years given allegations that Webb, while at NASA and, earlier, the State Department, supported discrimination against LGBTQ people. That includes one case, cited in a recent online petition that has garnered more than 1,200 signatures, of the arrest, interrogation and firing of a NASA employee for being homosexual in 1963, when Webb was administrator.

NASA historians are conducting a review of historical records about Webb and his role in such events, but neither Smith nor Paul Hertz, director of NASA’s astrophysics division, offered many details about the progress of that review at the meeting of experts.

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1346 on: 07/10/2021 03:30 am »
https://spacenews.com/jwst-passes-launch-review/

Quote
One open item has nothing to do with the spacecraft itself, but rather its name. NASA renamed what was originally known as the Next Generation Space Telescope in 2002 after James Webb, who was NASA administrator from 1961 and 1968 and is credited for guiding the agency through the development of the Apollo program while also supporting science missions.

That choice has come under scrutiny in recent years given allegations that Webb, while at NASA and, earlier, the State Department, supported discrimination against LGBTQ people. That includes one case, cited in a recent online petition that has garnered more than 1,200 signatures, of the arrest, interrogation and firing of a NASA employee for being homosexual in 1963, when Webb was administrator.

NASA historians are conducting a review of historical records about Webb and his role in such events, but neither Smith nor Paul Hertz, director of NASA’s astrophysics division, offered many details about the progress of that review at the meeting of experts.

Oh good grief.   Lunacy in pursuit of a shibboleth....
Apologies in advance for any lack of civility - it's unintended

Online matthewkantar

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1347 on: 07/10/2021 08:28 am »
https://spacenews.com/jwst-passes-launch-review/

Quote
One open item has nothing to do with the spacecraft itself, but rather its name. NASA renamed what was originally known as the Next Generation Space Telescope in 2002 after James Webb, who was NASA administrator from 1961 and 1968 and is credited for guiding the agency through the development of the Apollo program while also supporting science missions.

That choice has come under scrutiny in recent years given allegations that Webb, while at NASA and, earlier, the State Department, supported discrimination against LGBTQ people. That includes one case, cited in a recent online petition that has garnered more than 1,200 signatures, of the arrest, interrogation and firing of a NASA employee for being homosexual in 1963, when Webb was administrator.

NASA historians are conducting a review of historical records about Webb and his role in such events, but neither Smith nor Paul Hertz, director of NASA’s astrophysics division, offered many details about the progress of that review at the meeting of experts.

Oh good grief.   Lunacy in pursuit of a shibboleth....

Not to the individual fired for loving the wrong person. Being on the wrong side of history has consequences. I never liked naming the telescope after a bureaucrat anyway, it should be named for a scientist.

Offline libra

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1348 on: 07/10/2021 09:25 am »
Two important links well worth a read.

https://hmoluseyi.medium.com/was-nasas-historic-leader-james-webb-a-bigot-131c821d5f12

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AJames_E._Webb#Quote_about_homosexuals_was_mis-attributed_to_Webb

Counterpoint

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nasa-needs-to-rename-the-james-webb-space-telescope/

What I really don't like and that I found disturbing in the above link is exactly that part

Quote
But that correction changes nothing. Webb was in leadership as the lavender scare unfolded. Additional archival evidence, easily found by Columbia University astronomer Adrian Lucy, underlines Webb's role as a facilitator of homophobic policy discussions with members of the Senate. In particular, in 1950 assistant secretary of state Carlisle Humelsine submitted a set of memos to Webb that included “objectives and methods of operation of the Senate Committee established to look into the problem,” which Webb then shared during a meeting with Senator Clyde Hoey of North Carolina. The records clearly show that Webb planned and participated in meetings during which he handed over homophobic material. There is no record of him choosing to stand up for the humanity of those being persecuted.

As someone in management, Webb bore responsibility for policies enacted under his leadership, including homophobic ones that were in place when he became NASA administrator. Some argue that if Webb was complicit, so was everyone working in the agency's administration at the time. We agree. But NASA is not launching a telescope named after its entire administration.

The way it is phrased is a) not convincing at all and b) seems like a witch hunt / stalinian process - in the sense that the conclusion is foregone, no chance for defense. Just - "burn the witch" - period.

Are scientists supposed to argue and made convincing cases ? because this piece looks hastily written, not neutral by any mean, and arguing the wrong way.

Overall - I respect the underlying cause they defend - what bothers me is the tone and way of argumenting. It is pretty damaging. Only the title left little doubt about a foregone conclusion.
« Last Edit: 07/10/2021 09:33 am by libra »

Offline Dizzy_RHESSI

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1349 on: 07/10/2021 04:07 pm »

Not to the individual fired for loving the wrong person. Being on the wrong side of history has consequences. I never liked naming the telescope after a bureaucrat anyway, it should be named for a scientist.

Not only that but it abandoned a thoughtful tradition of finding a name of particular relevance. Compton gave his name to the effect, which was the bias for CGRO's main instrument. Chandrasekar worked on compact objects, like those CXO observes. One of HST's key projects was to use Cepheids to measure the Hubble constant... Webb on the other hand has no specific relevance to infrared astronomy or early galaxies.

One of the proposals that was circulating before NGST was dubbed Edison, who it turns out was pretty much the first to do infrared astronomy. And I'm sure there are better options too, but I guess a politician turned bureaucrat outranks all of them.

The way it is phrased is a) not convincing at all and b) seems like a witch hunt / stalinian process - in the sense that the conclusion is foregone, no chance for defense. Just - "burn the witch" - period.

Can you not see the irony in arguing this for a man who was part of the management of the department during this Stalinist Purge? The author of that opinion article isn't the one making the decision. NASA has a huge vested interest in making this go away, to protect the legacies of one of its administrators and of a major mission. I'm sure they will be more than fair on his part. If it wasn't for people making a noise about it there would be no investigation into the allegations. In all probability nothing will happen.
« Last Edit: 07/10/2021 04:24 pm by Dizzy_RHESSI »

Offline punder

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1350 on: 07/10/2021 04:43 pm »
.
One of the proposals that was circulating before NGST was dubbed Edison, who it turns out was pretty much the first to do infrared astronomy.
Edison was a great man but also a horrible person. Way more problematic than Webb imho.

The problem is that once we start cancelling historical figures for not living up to currently fashionable moral standards (and we have… or this conversation wouldn’t be happening) we will eventually cancel our entire history.

Offline Dizzy_RHESSI

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1351 on: 07/10/2021 05:04 pm »
.
One of the proposals that was circulating before NGST was dubbed Edison, who it turns out was pretty much the first to do infrared astronomy.
Edison was a great man but also a horrible person. Way more problematic than Webb imho.

But he is at least relevant and of the scientific stature to warrant such a facility. Webb is not. As I said, I'm sure there are better options.

Offline tpw2

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1352 on: 07/10/2021 05:33 pm »
I'd rather avoid naming missions after people in the first place... Indeed, coming from a country where naming things after someone has traditionally been uncommon, I've always found the US habit quite strange.

Offline libra

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1353 on: 07/10/2021 06:04 pm »
.
One of the proposals that was circulating before NGST was dubbed Edison, who it turns out was pretty much the first to do infrared astronomy.
Edison was a great man but also a horrible person. Way more problematic than Webb imho.

The problem is that once we start cancelling historical figures for not living up to currently fashionable moral standards (and we have… or this conversation wouldn’t be happening) we will eventually cancel our entire history.

There is even worse than that: such idiotic and ill-written pieces as the New Scientist one
a) actually poison the debate and weaken an irreprocheable cause (LGBT people past and present suffering)
b) by creating anger and resent among people who appreciates Webb for what he did with Apollo
and
c) also by "exciting" right-wing nuts with an agenda (and there are no lack of such ignoble people waiting to get their Warhol proverbial 15 minutes of celebrity, even saying horrible things - it even has become kind of "fashionable" those days). In a sense, it gives those fascists loons a pretext to spew more of their hate.

Overall - a noble cause, but defended the worst possible way to such a point: it ends counter-productive, making more damage than good.

Offline Cryolava

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1354 on: 07/10/2021 06:17 pm »
.
One of the proposals that was circulating before NGST was dubbed Edison, who it turns out was pretty much the first to do infrared astronomy.
Edison was a great man but also a horrible person. Way more problematic than Webb imho.

The problem is that once we start cancelling historical figures for not living up to currently fashionable moral standards (and we have… or this conversation wouldn’t be happening) we will eventually cancel our entire history.

How is maybe choosing to not honor a historical figure after taking a more complete look through their history equivalent to or will lead to "canceling" history? There are plenty of vile historical figures that are well known, they don't disappear from textbooks nor public consciousness.

Also one can be critical of the process taken to evaluate a historical figure without calling it a witch-hunt or Stalinism, those terms refer to something more serious and different than what's happening here.

Offline Paul451

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1355 on: 07/10/2021 06:58 pm »
I curious how many of you whining about "cancelling" Webb were so up in arms when Dryden's legacy got shunting aside merely so we could add another laurel on the head of Neil Armstrong. (Ignoring that Armstrong himself admired Dryden.)

It's weird that we only object to "cancelling" when there's actually a good cause behind it.

[And the lack of self-awareness of those using terms like "witch-hunt" and "Stalinist" to describe those complaining about a historical government-wide purge of anyone suspected of being the "wrong sort"...]

Offline libra

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1356 on: 07/10/2021 07:16 pm »
And those who conveniently ignores the rest of my posts, conveniently picking what helps criticizing...

Offline Blackstar

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Re: NASA - James Webb Space Telescope - Discussion and Updates
« Reply #1357 on: 07/10/2021 07:30 pm »
I curious how many of you whining about "cancelling" Webb were so up in arms when Dryden's legacy got shunting aside merely so we could add another laurel on the head of Neil Armstrong. (Ignoring that Armstrong himself admired Dryden.)

It's weird that we only object to "cancelling" when there's actually a good cause behind it.

[And the lack of self-awareness of those using terms like "witch-hunt" and "Stalinist" to describe those complaining about a historical government-wide purge of anyone suspected of being the "wrong sort"...]



I'll make a suggestion for this thread: how about nobody uses any of those catch phrases like the ones you put in quotations above? Why not just argue what you believe, and avoid all the loaded jargon? Let's see how many people posting here can actually do that. Consider it a challenge.

As to the Dryden/Armstrong thing, I'll point out that there's a reason that was done (same as with Lewis/Glenn): the more contemporary name gets more attention and recognition, and more funding. When people try to get funding for that facility, they have a familiar name for it that reminds the funders of something positive, hopefully increasing the funding.

And that's a lesson for all these controversies over naming, or not naming, something after a person. It's about who we are today, not who we were decades or centuries ago.

Offline Chris Bergin

Thread has gone to the wall, so new thread.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54269.0

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