Author Topic: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6  (Read 368616 times)

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #560 on: 09/20/2022 02:06 pm »
DanClem claimed Starliner doesn’t exist (as a backup) right now. By pointing out they could extend the CFT if they wanted, I’m demonstrating that yes, it in fact does exist as a backup capability already.

(Edited)
« Last Edit: 09/21/2022 03:41 am by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline deadman1204

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #561 on: 09/20/2022 05:52 pm »
You claimed Starliner doesn’t exist (as a backup) right now. By pointing out they could extend the CFT if they wanted, I’m demonstrating that yes, it in fact does exist as a backup capability already.
This reads like you are responding to my post, but I think you're referring to someone else's post.

Offline Comga

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #562 on: 09/30/2022 10:08 pm »
What is up with the administrative gymnastics of Epps status on this flight?

September 30, 2022
RELEASE 22-103
NASA Updates Crew Assignments for First Starliner Crew Rotation Flight

NASA has added two astronauts to the agency’s Boeing Starliner-1 launch to the International Space Station, the spacecraft’s first mission following completion of its flight tests and certification.

Astronauts Scott Tingle and Mike Fincke of NASA will serve as the CST-100 Starliner spacecraft commander and pilot, respectively, for the mission. Both astronauts have previously flown as crew members aboard the space station.

NASA astronaut Jeanette Epps remains assigned as a mission specialist on Starliner-1. Epps also continues cross-training on the Dragon spacecraft to protect for other flight opportunities.

The agency’s Starliner crew rotation missions to the space station will carry four crew members at a time. Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made following review and approval by the agency and its international partners.

Starliner-1 will launch following the successful completion of NASA’s Boeing Crew Flight Test (CFT),...
(snip)

It sounds like Epps is scheduled fly on the ISS rotation in H2 2023 regardless of which of the two companies provides it, Boeing with Starliner or SpaceX with Dragon.
Getting to orbit not the main goal, just something on the way to that goal, which is working on the ISS.
This is as it should be, IMO.

What's not clear is "Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made..." but three out of four are assigned.
This sort of reads like they are assuming Starliner-1 will be delayed and Epps's seat will be filled after she flies on Dragon.
« Last Edit: 09/30/2022 10:12 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #563 on: 09/30/2022 10:30 pm »
You claimed Starliner doesn’t exist (as a backup) right now. By pointing out they could extend the CFT if they wanted, I’m demonstrating that yes, it in fact does exist as a backup capability already.
This reads like you are responding to my post, but I think you're referring to someone else's post.
The next CCP flight is Crew-5 on 3 October. Can Starliner fly on 3 October? If no , then it's not a backup right now.
« Last Edit: 10/02/2022 03:12 pm by DanClemmensen »

Offline Targeteer

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #564 on: 10/02/2022 12:43 pm »
What is up with the administrative gymnastics of Epps status on this flight?

September 30, 2022
RELEASE 22-103
NASA Updates Crew Assignments for First Starliner Crew Rotation Flight

NASA has added two astronauts to the agency’s Boeing Starliner-1 launch to the International Space Station, the spacecraft’s first mission following completion of its flight tests and certification.

Astronauts Scott Tingle and Mike Fincke of NASA will serve as the CST-100 Starliner spacecraft commander and pilot, respectively, for the mission. Both astronauts have previously flown as crew members aboard the space station.

NASA astronaut Jeanette Epps remains assigned as a mission specialist on Starliner-1. Epps also continues cross-training on the Dragon spacecraft to protect for other flight opportunities.

The agency’s Starliner crew rotation missions to the space station will carry four crew members at a time. Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made following review and approval by the agency and its international partners.

Starliner-1 will launch following the successful completion of NASA’s Boeing Crew Flight Test (CFT),...
(snip)

It sounds like Epps is scheduled fly on the ISS rotation in H2 2023 regardless of which of the two companies provides it, Boeing with Starliner or SpaceX with Dragon.
Getting to orbit not the main goal, just something on the way to that goal, which is working on the ISS.
This is as it should be, IMO.

What's not clear is "Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made..." but three out of four are assigned.
This sort of reads like they are assuming Starliner-1 will be delayed and Epps's seat will be filled after she flies on Dragon.

My point is why not just assign her to a flight, period, like every other astronaut?  Ever since she was mysteriously dropped from a Soyuz flight for still undisclosed reasons, her treatment by NASA has been unusual to say the least...
Best quote heard during an inspection, "I was unaware that I was the only one who was aware."

Offline litton4

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #565 on: 10/03/2022 01:00 pm »
What is up with the administrative gymnastics of Epps status on this flight?

September 30, 2022
RELEASE 22-103
NASA Updates Crew Assignments for First Starliner Crew Rotation Flight

NASA has added two astronauts to the agency’s Boeing Starliner-1 launch to the International Space Station, the spacecraft’s first mission following completion of its flight tests and certification.

Astronauts Scott Tingle and Mike Fincke of NASA will serve as the CST-100 Starliner spacecraft commander and pilot, respectively, for the mission. Both astronauts have previously flown as crew members aboard the space station.

NASA astronaut Jeanette Epps remains assigned as a mission specialist on Starliner-1. Epps also continues cross-training on the Dragon spacecraft to protect for other flight opportunities.

The agency’s Starliner crew rotation missions to the space station will carry four crew members at a time. Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made following review and approval by the agency and its international partners.

Starliner-1 will launch following the successful completion of NASA’s Boeing Crew Flight Test (CFT),...
(snip)

It sounds like Epps is scheduled fly on the ISS rotation in H2 2023 regardless of which of the two companies provides it, Boeing with Starliner or SpaceX with Dragon.
Getting to orbit not the main goal, just something on the way to that goal, which is working on the ISS.
This is as it should be, IMO.

What's not clear is "Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made..." but three out of four are assigned.
This sort of reads like they are assuming Starliner-1 will be delayed and Epps's seat will be filled after she flies on Dragon.

My point is why not just assign her to a flight, period, like every other astronaut?  Ever since she was mysteriously dropped from a Soyuz flight for still undisclosed reasons, her treatment by NASA has been unusual to say the least...

Does she have "a particular set of skills that they need"?
So she would need to go up at a particular time, rather than on a particular flight, which might be delayed....
Dave Condliffe

Offline Cherokee43v6

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #566 on: 10/03/2022 01:17 pm »
What is up with the administrative gymnastics of Epps status on this flight?

September 30, 2022
RELEASE 22-103
NASA Updates Crew Assignments for First Starliner Crew Rotation Flight

NASA has added two astronauts to the agency’s Boeing Starliner-1 launch to the International Space Station, the spacecraft’s first mission following completion of its flight tests and certification.

Astronauts Scott Tingle and Mike Fincke of NASA will serve as the CST-100 Starliner spacecraft commander and pilot, respectively, for the mission. Both astronauts have previously flown as crew members aboard the space station.

NASA astronaut Jeanette Epps remains assigned as a mission specialist on Starliner-1. Epps also continues cross-training on the Dragon spacecraft to protect for other flight opportunities.

The agency’s Starliner crew rotation missions to the space station will carry four crew members at a time. Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made following review and approval by the agency and its international partners.

Starliner-1 will launch following the successful completion of NASA’s Boeing Crew Flight Test (CFT),...
(snip)

It sounds like Epps is scheduled fly on the ISS rotation in H2 2023 regardless of which of the two companies provides it, Boeing with Starliner or SpaceX with Dragon.
Getting to orbit not the main goal, just something on the way to that goal, which is working on the ISS.
This is as it should be, IMO.

What's not clear is "Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made..." but three out of four are assigned.
This sort of reads like they are assuming Starliner-1 will be delayed and Epps's seat will be filled after she flies on Dragon.

My point is why not just assign her to a flight, period, like every other astronaut?  Ever since she was mysteriously dropped from a Soyuz flight for still undisclosed reasons, her treatment by NASA has been unusual to say the least...

Does she have "a particular set of skills that they need"?
So she would need to go up at a particular time, rather than on a particular flight, which might be delayed....

Probably more along the lines of as a 'mission specialist' her training is more ISS focused and her ride up is less important.  Thus it is easier to move her to a Dragon if the Starliner continues to be delayed.  Tingle and Finke, on the other hand, are receiving craft specific training to fly Starliner and thus would not be reassigned unless the Starliner contract were cancelled.
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Offline Targeteer

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #567 on: 10/03/2022 03:39 pm »
What is up with the administrative gymnastics of Epps status on this flight?

September 30, 2022
RELEASE 22-103
NASA Updates Crew Assignments for First Starliner Crew Rotation Flight

NASA has added two astronauts to the agency’s Boeing Starliner-1 launch to the International Space Station, the spacecraft’s first mission following completion of its flight tests and certification.

Astronauts Scott Tingle and Mike Fincke of NASA will serve as the CST-100 Starliner spacecraft commander and pilot, respectively, for the mission. Both astronauts have previously flown as crew members aboard the space station.

NASA astronaut Jeanette Epps remains assigned as a mission specialist on Starliner-1. Epps also continues cross-training on the Dragon spacecraft to protect for other flight opportunities.

The agency’s Starliner crew rotation missions to the space station will carry four crew members at a time. Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made following review and approval by the agency and its international partners.

Starliner-1 will launch following the successful completion of NASA’s Boeing Crew Flight Test (CFT),...
(snip)

It sounds like Epps is scheduled fly on the ISS rotation in H2 2023 regardless of which of the two companies provides it, Boeing with Starliner or SpaceX with Dragon.
Getting to orbit not the main goal, just something on the way to that goal, which is working on the ISS.
This is as it should be, IMO.

What's not clear is "Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made..." but three out of four are assigned.
This sort of reads like they are assuming Starliner-1 will be delayed and Epps's seat will be filled after she flies on Dragon.

My point is why not just assign her to a flight, period, like every other astronaut?  Ever since she was mysteriously dropped from a Soyuz flight for still undisclosed reasons, her treatment by NASA has been unusual to say the least...

Does she have "a particular set of skills that they need"?
So she would need to go up at a particular time, rather than on a particular flight, which might be delayed....

Probably more along the lines of as a 'mission specialist' her training is more ISS focused and her ride up is less important.  Thus it is easier to move her to a Dragon if the Starliner continues to be delayed.  Tingle and Finke, on the other hand, are receiving craft specific training to fly Starliner and thus would not be reassigned unless the Starliner contract were cancelled.

I have been a frequent critic of NASA's "first woman and person of color" emphasis in Artemis coverage. I suspect handling of Epps flight status follows a similar track...
Best quote heard during an inspection, "I was unaware that I was the only one who was aware."

Offline NaN

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #568 on: 10/04/2022 04:45 am »
What is up with the administrative gymnastics of Epps status on this flight?

September 30, 2022
RELEASE 22-103
NASA Updates Crew Assignments for First Starliner Crew Rotation Flight

NASA has added two astronauts to the agency’s Boeing Starliner-1 launch to the International Space Station, the spacecraft’s first mission following completion of its flight tests and certification.

Astronauts Scott Tingle and Mike Fincke of NASA will serve as the CST-100 Starliner spacecraft commander and pilot, respectively, for the mission. Both astronauts have previously flown as crew members aboard the space station.

NASA astronaut Jeanette Epps remains assigned as a mission specialist on Starliner-1. Epps also continues cross-training on the Dragon spacecraft to protect for other flight opportunities.

The agency’s Starliner crew rotation missions to the space station will carry four crew members at a time. Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made following review and approval by the agency and its international partners.

Starliner-1 will launch following the successful completion of NASA’s Boeing Crew Flight Test (CFT),...
(snip)

It sounds like Epps is scheduled fly on the ISS rotation in H2 2023 regardless of which of the two companies provides it, Boeing with Starliner or SpaceX with Dragon.
Getting to orbit not the main goal, just something on the way to that goal, which is working on the ISS.
This is as it should be, IMO.

What's not clear is "Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made..." but three out of four are assigned.
This sort of reads like they are assuming Starliner-1 will be delayed and Epps's seat will be filled after she flies on Dragon.

My point is why not just assign her to a flight, period, like every other astronaut?  Ever since she was mysteriously dropped from a Soyuz flight for still undisclosed reasons, her treatment by NASA has been unusual to say the least...

Does she have "a particular set of skills that they need"?
So she would need to go up at a particular time, rather than on a particular flight, which might be delayed....

Probably more along the lines of as a 'mission specialist' her training is more ISS focused and her ride up is less important.  Thus it is easier to move her to a Dragon if the Starliner continues to be delayed.  Tingle and Finke, on the other hand, are receiving craft specific training to fly Starliner and thus would not be reassigned unless the Starliner contract were cancelled.

I have been a frequent critic of NASA's "first woman and person of color" emphasis in Artemis coverage. I suspect handling of Epps flight status follows a similar track...

Apparently you didn't see the rookie reassignments about a year ago. CFT and Starliner-1 previously had three rookies assigned to them: Cassada, Epps and Mann. Due to Starliner's continued delays, NASA sought to reassign them to Crew-5 so that they could get these rookies - classes of 2009 and 2013 - some flight experience. If the Roscosmos seat swap had fallen through then Epps would have gotten the final seat on Crew-5, according to Eric Berger. Since the seat swap happened Epps got bumped while Cassada and Mann made it on to Crew-5.

So I'm not seeing "her treatment by NASA has been unusual to say the least" or whatever else you are thinking - she's already cross-training, if Starliner receives substantial further delays (let's hope not!!!) then NASA still has the option of moving her to a Dragon flight like the other two rookies already were.


https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/10/nasa-likely-to-move-some-astronauts-off-starliner-due-to-extended-delays/
https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/2021/10/07/nasa-spacex-update-upcoming-commercial-crew-flights/


Offline Vahe231991

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #569 on: 10/05/2022 02:19 am »
You claimed Starliner doesn’t exist (as a backup) right now. By pointing out they could extend the CFT if they wanted, I’m demonstrating that yes, it in fact does exist as a backup capability already.
This reads like you are responding to my post, but I think you're referring to someone else's post.
The next CCP flight is Crew-5 on 3 October. Can Starliner fly on 3 October? If no , then it's not a backup right now.
The Crew-5 flight is scheduled for launch tomorrow. The first crewed Starliner flight is now scheduled for early next year.

Offline NasaFan95

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #570 on: 10/09/2022 01:21 am »
What is up with the administrative gymnastics of Epps status on this flight?

September 30, 2022
RELEASE 22-103
NASA Updates Crew Assignments for First Starliner Crew Rotation Flight

NASA has added two astronauts to the agency’s Boeing Starliner-1 launch to the International Space Station, the spacecraft’s first mission following completion of its flight tests and certification.

Astronauts Scott Tingle and Mike Fincke of NASA will serve as the CST-100 Starliner spacecraft commander and pilot, respectively, for the mission. Both astronauts have previously flown as crew members aboard the space station.

NASA astronaut Jeanette Epps remains assigned as a mission specialist on Starliner-1. Epps also continues cross-training on the Dragon spacecraft to protect for other flight opportunities.

The agency’s Starliner crew rotation missions to the space station will carry four crew members at a time. Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made following review and approval by the agency and its international partners.

Starliner-1 will launch following the successful completion of NASA’s Boeing Crew Flight Test (CFT),...
(snip)

It sounds like Epps is scheduled fly on the ISS rotation in H2 2023 regardless of which of the two companies provides it, Boeing with Starliner or SpaceX with Dragon.
Getting to orbit not the main goal, just something on the way to that goal, which is working on the ISS.
This is as it should be, IMO.

What's not clear is "Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made..." but three out of four are assigned.
This sort of reads like they are assuming Starliner-1 will be delayed and Epps's seat will be filled after she flies on Dragon.
I’m kinda surprised they didn’t give fincke the command and tingle the pilot spot based on experience but fincke was probably forced to relinquish the command spot cuz more than likely he’ll command expedition 70 on the first half. But we have yet to have that confirmed have they announced who’s commanding expedition 70, ovchinin would be my guess for the first half & fincke second half

Offline Michael Cassutt

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #571 on: 10/09/2022 09:18 pm »
What is up with the administrative gymnastics of Epps status on this flight?

September 30, 2022
RELEASE 22-103
NASA Updates Crew Assignments for First Starliner Crew Rotation Flight

NASA has added two astronauts to the agency’s Boeing Starliner-1 launch to the International Space Station, the spacecraft’s first mission following completion of its flight tests and certification.

Astronauts Scott Tingle and Mike Fincke of NASA will serve as the CST-100 Starliner spacecraft commander and pilot, respectively, for the mission. Both astronauts have previously flown as crew members aboard the space station.

NASA astronaut Jeanette Epps remains assigned as a mission specialist on Starliner-1. Epps also continues cross-training on the Dragon spacecraft to protect for other flight opportunities.

The agency’s Starliner crew rotation missions to the space station will carry four crew members at a time. Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made following review and approval by the agency and its international partners.

Starliner-1 will launch following the successful completion of NASA’s Boeing Crew Flight Test (CFT),...
(snip)

It sounds like Epps is scheduled fly on the ISS rotation in H2 2023 regardless of which of the two companies provides it, Boeing with Starliner or SpaceX with Dragon.
Getting to orbit not the main goal, just something on the way to that goal, which is working on the ISS.
This is as it should be, IMO.

What's not clear is "Future crew assignments for Starliner-1 will be made..." but three out of four are assigned.
This sort of reads like they are assuming Starliner-1 will be delayed and Epps's seat will be filled after she flies on Dragon.
I’m kinda surprised they didn’t give fincke the command and tingle the pilot spot based on experience but fincke was probably forced to relinquish the command spot cuz more than likely he’ll command expedition 70 on the first half. But we have yet to have that confirmed have they announced who’s commanding expedition 70, ovchinin would be my guess for the first half & fincke second half

No "relinquishing" at all. NASA wants experienced test pilots as CDRs of the first handful of Starliner missions -- it's more challenging to pilot than Dragon. Also, US crew positions are not tied to ISS commands.

Michael Cassutt


Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #572 on: 10/22/2022 04:38 am »
Boeing’s Starliner – Advancing Innovative Technology

Quote from: SpaceNews sponsored article by Boeing
One day after launching May 19 from Florida’s Space Coast on a United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket, the CST-100 Starliner spacecraft docked to the International Space Station, or ISS, signifying a historic moment for the program.

That moment was the first step toward next carrying astronauts to and from the space station, which will expand Starliner’s reach in low-Earth orbit and shape the future of commercial human spaceflight.

What followed was ISS astronauts opening the hatch of the uncrewed Starliner and then floating inside, marking the first time the spacecraft hosted people on orbit.

Starliner Mission Director LeRoy Cain had a front-row seat. The deputy program manager and director of program integration for Boeing’s Commercial Crew Program was on console at the Mission Control Center in Houston after watching the 6:54 p.m. ET launch in person a day earlier at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station.
I read that article and noticed a extreme bias toward Boeing, willllfully puffing up Boeing and ignoring, among others, SpaceX. It looks like horrible reporting, so I looked at the byline. the byline says the writer is "Boeing" and the piece is "sponsored".  So yes, it's an extended advertisement. The piece makes it seem like the first time the Boeing-built NDS ports on ISS were ever used was for Starliner OFT-2, neglecting the seven Crew Dragon and five Cargo Dragon dockings that have occurred starting in 2019.

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #573 on: 10/22/2022 08:36 am »
Well, the article was written by Boeing.
Aviation/space enthusiast, retired control system SW engineer, doesn't know anything!

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #574 on: 10/22/2022 05:17 pm »
Well, the article was written by Boeing.
If they'd employed less journalists and more SW testers it would've been Starliner crew member entering ISS not the other way around.


Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #575 on: 10/23/2022 08:25 am »
We got a little off topic there … thread trimmed.

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #576 on: 10/27/2022 04:41 pm »

Quote
Did You Know: The extendable ring ⭕️ on #Starliner's NASA Docking System (NDS) reaches out ➡️ to assist with soft capture to @Space_Station.

The NDS then retracts ⬅️ for hard capture and 12 structural hooks lock 🔒 into place ensuring the vehicles are structurally sound.

NDS is the NASA/Boeing implementation of the IDSS docking standard (of which NDS was a major contributor). One of the two docking participants acts in the active role and extends the ISC "ring". The NDS implementation on the ISS ports acts in the passive role. The NDS on Starliners act in the active role. So far, OFT-2 is the only active NDS-to-NDS docking that has ever occurred in space, I think.  The compatible active IDSS ports (non NDS) on the Crew and Cargo dragons have docked to the ISS NDS ports thirteen times so far (actually more because of relocations).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Docking_System_Standard

Offline king1999

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #577 on: 10/31/2022 11:37 pm »
Quote
NASA's Kathy Lueders says just now that Boeing could have chosen to "not do a second uncrewed flight" of Starliner. Says that decision was taken by the company's top level of management. It strikes me as wild that NASA would have gone for that, but Kathy was the boss.

https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1587143140527542272?cxt=HHwWgMC8rd-R1YYsAAAA

It's really striking to me that Boeing top level management obviously had less confidence in the Starliner team than NASA did. Probably they were still in shock of the 737 MAX mess and didn't want to get into another possible nightmare.

Offline xyv

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #578 on: 10/31/2022 11:44 pm »
All Kathy said was "...they could have..."  Not said are things such as "NASA could have opted to terminate the contract..." etc.  Just a (small) window into negotiations and cost/benefit analysis (from the financeial and reputation sense) that goes on in a corporate-government programmatic fiasco.
« Last Edit: 10/31/2022 11:46 pm by xyv »

Offline arachnitect

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Re: Boeing's Starliner (CST-100) - Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #579 on: 10/31/2022 11:55 pm »
Quote
NASA's Kathy Lueders says just now that Boeing could have chosen to "not do a second uncrewed flight" of Starliner. Says that decision was taken by the company's top level of management. It strikes me as wild that NASA would have gone for that, but Kathy was the boss.


It's really striking to me that Boeing top level management obviously had less confidence in the Starliner team than NASA did. Probably they were still in shock of the 737 MAX mess and didn't want to get into another possible nightmare.

I think Lueders is just saying that technically it was up to Boeing to propose a recovery plan, not saying that NASA was ready to proceed to CFT.
« Last Edit: 10/31/2022 11:59 pm by arachnitect »

 

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