Author Topic: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)  (Read 699430 times)

Offline ntschke

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #20 on: 11/06/2007 12:59 am »

Probably answered somewhere else but I couldnt find it so here goes...

After Shuttle/ISS sep is the shuttle always sent "ahead" or lags "behind" the station complex until deorbit and landing or is it mission and/or orbital dependent?

Jorge, thanks also for your detailed response to my question about day/night calcuations a few days back.  Great info.


Offline MKremer

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #21 on: 11/06/2007 02:18 am »
Quote
ntschke - 5/11/2007  7:59 PM

Probably answered somewhere else but I couldnt find it so here goes...

After Shuttle/ISS sep is the shuttle always sent "ahead" or lags "behind" the station complex until deorbit and landing or is it mission and/or orbital dependent?


Basic orbital mechanics - higher is "slower", lower is "faster" (which is opposite of actual kinetic energy at those locations).

Anyway, it's a planned orbit for undocking. However, the orbiter then does a burn to maintain an average 40 mile distance from ISS until the TPS has been cleared by NASA (after late inspection data has been downloaded and examined) that's so if any serious TPS damage happens to be found they have enough propellent to re-dock with ISS for Safe Haven contingency.

Offline Jorge

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #22 on: 11/06/2007 03:53 am »
Quote
MKremer - 5/11/2007  9:18 PM

Quote
ntschke - 5/11/2007  7:59 PM

Probably answered somewhere else but I couldnt find it so here goes...

After Shuttle/ISS sep is the shuttle always sent "ahead" or lags "behind" the station complex until deorbit and landing or is it mission and/or orbital dependent?


Basic orbital mechanics - higher is "slower", lower is "faster" (which is opposite of actual kinetic energy at those locations).

Anyway, it's a planned orbit for undocking. However, the orbiter then does a burn to maintain an average 40 mile distance from ISS until the TPS has been cleared by NASA (after late inspection data has been downloaded and examined) that's so if any serious TPS damage happens to be found they have enough propellent to re-dock with ISS for Safe Haven contingency.

Then you have exceptions like (I think) STS-117, where they did not protect re-rendezvous for late inspection and wound up going below and ahead of ISS before late inspection was complete.

And of course, after late inspection FDO will sometimes insert a perigee adjust maneuver which takes the orbiter below and ahead of ISS, for the purpose of increasing landing opportunities, adjusting crossrange, or even adjusting public risk from overflight. But they don't need to do this every flight. They are planning one for STS-120, though.

So bottom line is, while the *initial* separation burns *always* take the orbiter above and then behind ISS, by the time of deorbit where the orbiter winds up is very mission-dependent.
JRF

Offline Real Madrid

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #23 on: 11/06/2007 03:16 pm »
why land the shuttle never on White sands space harbor.
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Offline Jim

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #24 on: 11/06/2007 03:23 pm »
Quote
Real Madrid - 6/11/2007  11:16 AM

why land the shuttle never on White sands space harbor.

It is only a backup and it doesn't have all the facilities for a nominal EOM

Online DaveS

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #25 on: 11/06/2007 03:29 pm »
Quote
Jim - 6/11/2007  5:23 PM

Quote
Real Madrid - 6/11/2007  11:16 AM

why land the shuttle never on White sands space harbor.

It is only a backup and it doesn't have all the facilities for a nominal EOM
Such as a proper Mate/Demate Device and a fully equipped recovery convoy.
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Offline spacedreams

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #26 on: 11/06/2007 03:36 pm »
Doesn't the sand do a number on the vehicle as well which in turn requires additional maintenance when it gets back to KSC?

Offline psloss

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #27 on: 11/06/2007 03:44 pm »
Quote
spacedreams - 6/11/2007  11:36 AM

Doesn't the sand do a number on the vehicle as well which in turn requires additional maintenance when it gets back to KSC?
There was a thread on this when the possibility was a bit less remote during STS-116 landing preps:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=5815&posts=91&start=1

I'm not sure that the STS-3 experience is reasonable to extrapolate from any more.

Online DaveS

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #28 on: 11/06/2007 03:45 pm »
Quote
spacedreams - 6/11/2007  5:36 PM

Doesn't the sand do a number on the vehicle as well which in turn requires additional maintenance when it gets back to KSC?
Only if they leave it on the runway post-landing! Last December when it looked like Discovery was going to White Sands John Shannon did note that they had a C-137 there for 9 months and it was untouched by the gypsum dust.

Today they have much better procedures than they did back in 1982 when Columbia landed there.
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Offline Jim

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #29 on: 11/06/2007 03:47 pm »
Quote
spacedreams - 6/11/2007  11:36 AM

Doesn't the sand do a number on the vehicle as well which in turn requires additional maintenance when it gets back to KSC?

that was due to a windstorm on STS-3

Offline ApolloLee

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #30 on: 11/06/2007 04:40 pm »
This post from the FD 15 thread brings a question to mind:

Quote
Rob in KC - 6/11/2007 4:39 PM

Who do the logged off consoles belong to?

To the right in the image? That's the Payload Deployment and Retrieval Systems(PDRS) officer console. Here's a Flash application that shows which consoles is which: http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/reference/mcc/shuttle_mcc.html




With that in mind, what exactly do shuttle flight controllers do when there's no mission on? And even during the mission... with PDRS having nothing to do, where the heck are they?

Offline Jim

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #31 on: 11/06/2007 04:58 pm »
Quote
ApolloLee - 6/11/2007  12:40 PM

With that in mind, what exactly do shuttle flight controllers do when there's no mission on? And even during the mission... with PDRS having nothing to do, where the heck are they?

Preparations for the following mission.  Integration and analysis's need to be done.  Procedures need to be written.  Who do you think writes all the documents on L2.  Training for their roles and crew training for subsequence missions.    

Console time is just a small part of the job

Offline nathan.moeller

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #32 on: 11/06/2007 05:23 pm »
Quote
Jim - 6/11/2007  11:58 AM

Quote
ApolloLee - 6/11/2007  12:40 PM

With that in mind, what exactly do shuttle flight controllers do when there's no mission on? And even during the mission... with PDRS having nothing to do, where the heck are they?

Preparations for the following mission.  Integration and analysis's need to be done.  Procedures need to be written.  Who do you think writes all the documents on L2.  Training for their roles and crew training for subsequence missions.    

Console time is just a small part of the job

Also, mission simulations are run again and again and again between the MCC and flight crew to get them ready for the real deal.  This was one of the most highly-emphasized parts of the STS-116 mission (at least that we saw), as it was one of most precisely-timed and choreographed sequences of operations to date.
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Offline ambrous

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #33 on: 11/07/2007 12:07 am »
Is there to be a LOD shuttle standing by all ready to fly for the last STS flight in 2010, one that would likely never fly but still be stacked and ready?

Offline Gary

Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #34 on: 11/07/2007 12:17 am »
What you are referring to is LON and No. What will happen instead is there will be two contingency flights which will have flight ready hardware that can be used if need be. I assume the programme will finish with at least one spare tank - A tank that should never be used.
You might get more detailed answers via the Shuttle Q&A thread.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #35 on: 11/07/2007 12:17 am »
Quote
ambrous - 7/11/2007  1:07 AM

Is there to be a LOD shuttle standing by all ready to fly for the last STS flight in 2010, one that would likely never fly but still be stacked and ready?

It's LON (Launch On Need) and it's to be decided, though very likely in the sense it would be a flight ready hardware...possibly not stacked unless an emergancy was called.
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Offline j2_

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #36 on: 11/07/2007 01:15 am »
Quote
edkyle99 - 6/11/2007  5:19 PM

I wonder how far back up the ground track sonic booms are heard.  On one mission, an orbiter passed right over Chicago, where I live, during its descent.  I heard a distinct single, thud-like boom.

 - Ed Kyle

I'd like to know as well.

Does anyone know at what altitude the shuttle has to be at for the sonic booms to be heard on the ground?

(This was originally posted in the FD15 thread)

Offline joncz

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #37 on: 11/07/2007 03:16 pm »
What information is displayed on the left-hand screen in MCC?


Offline GLS

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #38 on: 11/07/2007 03:43 pm »
That's variours clocks: GMT, MET, time to x event (burns, comm switchover). You can see it better on the ascent/landing FCR videos...
GLS is go for main engine start!

Offline Jorge

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Re: Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 4)
« Reply #39 on: 11/07/2007 06:15 pm »
Quote
joncz - 7/11/2007  10:16 AM

What information is displayed on the left-hand screen in MCC?


The small amber display in the upper left contains the mission clocks, as GLS noted.

The large display directly to the left of the world map runs two applications. The top window is called "SPECS". The top (black) pane shows what the crew is currently typing on the scratchpad lines of each of the four CRTs. The bottom (blue) pane shows a timetagged history of what the crew has typed. The bottom window is called "OFS" (Onboard Fault Summary). It displays a timetagged history of fault messages annunciated on the CRTs. All flight controllers have different data that they monitor, but everyone needs to monitor the scratchpad and fault summary, so those go up on the big board.
JRF

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