Author Topic: Astra Space  (Read 411947 times)

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39314
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 32886
  • Likes Given: 8406
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #300 on: 02/28/2020 06:54 am »
Funny looking second stage. Looks like a toroidal fuel tank below the LOX tank. Can't tell if its pressure or pump fed.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline brussell

  • Member
  • Posts: 97
  • la
  • Liked: 74
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #301 on: 02/28/2020 07:59 am »
I think that's made up. That wasn't an Astra rendering.

Offline Kosmos2001

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 191
  • CAT
  • Liked: 66
  • Likes Given: 172
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #302 on: 02/28/2020 10:13 am »
The rocket looks great. I hope they make it.

Offline john smith 19

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10357
  • Everyplaceelse
  • Liked: 2436
  • Likes Given: 13612
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #303 on: 02/28/2020 01:33 pm »
Hopefully enough to improve the model of the fairing.

Most or all shot by John Kraus.
That payload fairing looks odd.  Like an umbrella of fabric stretched over a set of ribs.

Which sounds pretty implausible.

Still tremendously exciting as a shot at "responsive space" on a commercial basis. Really looking forward to the launch.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 TBC. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¨cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline HeartofGold2030

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 241
  • England
  • Liked: 243
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #304 on: 02/28/2020 01:52 pm »
Funny looking second stage. Looks like a toroidal fuel tank below the LOX tank. Can't tell if its pressure or pump fed.

Itís almost definitely just a placeholder unless the maker has inside sources, which I highly doubt. Personally, I think it looks more like a solid-fuel kickstage (e.g. Star 48). A small solid-fuel upper stage would be an interesting attempt to keep costs down, at the expense of efficiency. Furthermore, such a setup would be similar to the early American rockets of the 1950s.
« Last Edit: 02/28/2020 01:54 pm by HeartofGold2030 »

Offline illectro

Re: Astra Space
« Reply #305 on: 02/28/2020 04:32 pm »
Given that we see the bulkheads for the second stage in their factory they're probably not building solid motors, they don't really have the facilities for that. Also the MLI seen on the top of the second stage might be taken to suggest cryogenic propellants. So I still think the most likely option is a Kerolox second stage.

Offline gmbnz

  • Member
  • Posts: 54
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 13
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #306 on: 02/28/2020 07:51 pm »
A small solid-fuel upper stage would be an interesting attempt to keep costs down, at the expense of efficiency.
And at the expense of accuracy - which for smallsats and constellation building is pretty important.

Given that we see the bulkheads for the second stage in their factory they're probably not building solid motors, they don't really have the facilities for that. Also the MLI seen on the top of the second stage might be taken to suggest cryogenic propellants. So I still think the most likely option is a Kerolox second stage.
Performance-wise too if they're not completely optimising their rocket (eg the fairing carbon fibre decision) I can't imagine a solid having enough mojo to lift their claimed 100kg to SSO.

Offline LH2NHI

  • Member
  • Posts: 35
  • Japan
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #307 on: 03/01/2020 01:24 am »
You can see the second stage in the newly released video.



I guess these tanks are arranged one above the other (like Masten's XOMBIE).

Offline Comga

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6474
  • Liked: 4581
  • Likes Given: 5187
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #308 on: 03/01/2020 02:37 am »
You can see the second stage in the newly released video.



I guess these tanks are arranged one above the other (like Masten's XOMBIE).

Do you mean the stacked spheres towards the back of the room at ~20 seconds?
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline john smith 19

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10357
  • Everyplaceelse
  • Liked: 2436
  • Likes Given: 13612
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #309 on: 03/01/2020 06:11 am »
You can see the second stage in the newly released video.

I guess these tanks are arranged one above the other (like Masten's XOMBIE).
Welcome to the site.

Interesting idea. Spheres are the minimum area for maximum volume and mass is more critical for the US. I think people have talked about a kerolox US but its so small I think boiloff would be a serious issue without substantial insulation.  It's the obvious choice for reasonably simple, pretty good performance, although it does need an ignition system.

For minimum complexity, safe handling I thing you could be looking at peroxide with a catalyst pack although that sacrifices performance.

If they are willing to risk the complexity and speculation is correct they could be running with battery powered pumps. Li+ battery performance has shown a year on year increase of about 10% so what would borderline for this size a few years ago (when RocketLab started) could be quite viable by now.

Exciting times.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 TBC. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¨cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline illectro

Re: Astra Space
« Reply #310 on: 03/01/2020 03:31 pm »
Anyone want to make a guess as to why the launch cube needs gaseous CH4? Given the plumbing inside the launch system I suspect it's part of engine ignition with burners inside the engine combustion chambers, but the old images showing the previous launch tests don't include this.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48467
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 82206
  • Likes Given: 37085
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #311 on: 03/01/2020 03:46 pm »
https://twitter.com/djsnm/status/1234154850247512065

Quote
I think the latest Astra video might have given us a few sightings of the second stage:
twitter.com/djsnm/status/1234157224739491840

Quote
Assuming that this can't be much bigger than 1m in diameter, and assuming they're sticking to LOX/kerosene that could contain 600kg of oxygen in a sphere, and ~230kg of kerosene.
For spherical fuel tanks the fuel tank is 80% of the radius of the LOX tank.

https://twitter.com/djsnm/status/1234160362502545413

Quote
We can see the plumbing for second stage propellent entering the side of the fairing, and we know the second stage extends up inside this so It's probably something like this.

Edit to add:

https://twitter.com/djsnm/status/1234162335930937344

Quote
But the main thing is the using spherical tanks limits the mass of propellent available. So assuming a 100kg stage, 100kg payload and 830kg of propellant that's a wet dry ratio of ~5 which puts it in the right ball park to boost to orbital velocity with >300s of ISP
« Last Edit: 03/01/2020 04:57 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Online jcm

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3636
  • Jonathan McDowell
  • Somerville, Massachusetts, USA
    • Jonathan's Space Report
  • Liked: 1307
  • Likes Given: 782
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #312 on: 03/01/2020 04:26 pm »
Has anyone geolocated LP-3B yet?  I assume there is also an LP-3A, is that where the second launch will be from?
Maybe those who are there like John know which way they turn on the road there, or even have a map they can share?
The googleearth image is from 2019 so: the known locations of LP1 and LP2 are marked.  Site C is present but undeveloped in the 2006
image; Site A was added between 2006 and 2010 -  probably support stuff for the Minotaur IV;  Site B/B1/B2 is new since 2010 and is my best guessf for LP-3A/LP-3B.

 
« Last Edit: 03/01/2020 05:40 pm by jcm »
-----------------------------

Jonathan McDowell
http://planet4589.org

Offline AnalogMan

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3436
  • Cambridge, UK
  • Liked: 1612
  • Likes Given: 51
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #313 on: 03/01/2020 09:00 pm »
Came across some recent documents outlining plans for the Spaceport produced by Alaska Aerospace (they operate the spaceport).  They are part of the 2020 - 2030 Master plan for future developments (still a work in progress, these drafts are dated January 9, 2020).  Attached are two figures for the Commercial Launch Area (Area 3) showing Pads A thru D and alternative locations for a further Pad E which may be of interest.

Also attached are Chapters 4 and 5 of the Master Plan which has more details.

Offline Ben

  • Member
  • Posts: 25
  • Liked: 28
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #314 on: 03/01/2020 09:20 pm »
More recent satellite imagery. JCM, have you tried getting an education account with Planet?

Offline LH2NHI

  • Member
  • Posts: 35
  • Japan
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #315 on: 03/02/2020 02:03 pm »
It is very interesting. Feb 28, 2020 video showed a distant view, so I compared it with the plan and satellite photos. The first launch uses PadB.

Offline LH2NHI

  • Member
  • Posts: 35
  • Japan
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #316 on: 03/02/2020 02:16 pm »
By the way, according to the link below, the launch capability of ASTRA's Rocket 3.0 is 25 kg for 500 km SSO.
https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/02/24/fresh-out-of-stealth-mode-astra-gearing-up-for-orbital-launch-from-alaska/

Also, according to the link below, Rocket4.0's capacity is 50kg for SSO.
https://spacenews.com/astra-emphasizes-rapid-iteration-in-its-quest-for-low-cost-rapid-launch/

The ASTRA website accepts reservations for 150kg SSO payloads, but how do they improve the rocket?
Larger upper stage (with another container shippment)?

Offline edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15436
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 8623
  • Likes Given: 1364
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #317 on: 03/02/2020 02:52 pm »
By the way, according to the link below, the launch capability of ASTRA's Rocket 3.0 is 25 kg for 500 km SSO.
https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/02/24/fresh-out-of-stealth-mode-astra-gearing-up-for-orbital-launch-from-alaska/

Also, according to the link below, Rocket4.0's capacity is 50kg for SSO.
https://spacenews.com/astra-emphasizes-rapid-iteration-in-its-quest-for-low-cost-rapid-launch/

The ASTRA website accepts reservations for 150kg SSO payloads, but how do they improve the rocket?
Larger upper stage (with another container shippment)?
Possibilities include removal of test instrumentation, second stage restart at first apogee, and more thrust/propellant.  My guess is that second stage restart is a likely means of bumping up sun synchronous payload.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Kryten

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 735
  • Liked: 426
  • Likes Given: 33
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #318 on: 03/02/2020 03:08 pm »
By the way, according to the link below, the launch capability of ASTRA's Rocket 3.0 is 25 kg for 500 km SSO.
https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/02/24/fresh-out-of-stealth-mode-astra-gearing-up-for-orbital-launch-from-alaska/

Also, according to the link below, Rocket4.0's capacity is 50kg for SSO.
https://spacenews.com/astra-emphasizes-rapid-iteration-in-its-quest-for-low-cost-rapid-launch/

The ASTRA website accepts reservations for 150kg SSO payloads, but how do they improve the rocket?
Larger upper stage (with another container shippment)?
They've been willing to do major design changes so far, Rocket 3.0 has engines twice the thrust of 2.0 and has to be four-odd times the size of Rocket 1.0.

Offline LH2NHI

  • Member
  • Posts: 35
  • Japan
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Astra Space
« Reply #319 on: 03/02/2020 03:18 pm »
By the way, according to the link below, the launch capability of ASTRA's Rocket 3.0 is 25 kg for 500 km SSO.
https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/02/24/fresh-out-of-stealth-mode-astra-gearing-up-for-orbital-launch-from-alaska/

Also, according to the link below, Rocket4.0's capacity is 50kg for SSO.
https://spacenews.com/astra-emphasizes-rapid-iteration-in-its-quest-for-low-cost-rapid-launch/

The ASTRA website accepts reservations for 150kg SSO payloads, but how do they improve the rocket?
Larger upper stage (with another container shippment)?
They've been willing to do major design changes so far, Rocket 3.0 has engines twice the thrust of 2.0 and has to be four-odd times the size of Rocket 1.0.

Yes, I think major design change is necessary to reach 150 kg capacity as you mentiond.
ASTRA rockets are made using traditional manufacturing methods, so they may be larger than Electron to achieve the same capabilities......

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1