Quote from: rcoppola on 04/10/2013 07:43 pmQuote from: PreferToLurk on 04/10/2013 07:11 pmQuote from: rcoppola on 04/10/2013 06:50 pmI don't recall reading what kind of activity this beach gets. It doesn't exactly scream the Hamptons to me. Are we talking about hundreds of people, thousands, tens of thousand?It doesnt matter. The argument being made is that one persons liberty outways any corporation's desire to infringe that liberty. Which is silly. Reasonable mediation between conflicting desires should occur, and that is exactly what the local land use board will be doing. Thanks, but you're over-thinking my question. I'm just curious as to how many people we are taking about. It may not be the Hamptons, but it's 1000 acres of beachfront within easy reach of Brownsville, population near 200k. Given the brutal summer heat down there, I can imagine it being a first resort on weekends for many Brownsville residents.I have seen pictures, and I guarantee you if that beach/park were anywhere in the Northeast coastal area where I live, it would have thousands during summer weekends. And the summer heat in Brownsville is much, much worse.But this whole debate is a bit overblown IMHO. SpaceX won't want to upset the locals, and even aerospace workers like their weekends off. I don't see how there are going to be many, if any, cases where SpaceX absolutely, positively has to launch on a summer weekend.
Quote from: PreferToLurk on 04/10/2013 07:11 pmQuote from: rcoppola on 04/10/2013 06:50 pmI don't recall reading what kind of activity this beach gets. It doesn't exactly scream the Hamptons to me. Are we talking about hundreds of people, thousands, tens of thousand?It doesnt matter. The argument being made is that one persons liberty outways any corporation's desire to infringe that liberty. Which is silly. Reasonable mediation between conflicting desires should occur, and that is exactly what the local land use board will be doing. Thanks, but you're over-thinking my question. I'm just curious as to how many people we are taking about.
Quote from: rcoppola on 04/10/2013 06:50 pmI don't recall reading what kind of activity this beach gets. It doesn't exactly scream the Hamptons to me. Are we talking about hundreds of people, thousands, tens of thousand?It doesnt matter. The argument being made is that one persons liberty outways any corporation's desire to infringe that liberty. Which is silly. Reasonable mediation between conflicting desires should occur, and that is exactly what the local land use board will be doing.
I don't recall reading what kind of activity this beach gets. It doesn't exactly scream the Hamptons to me. Are we talking about hundreds of people, thousands, tens of thousand?
It's not like it's the ONLY beach in the area. Hell, South Padre Island (AKA Spring Break Central) is 5 miles away, and there are other beaches along that coast. You can also drive across the border to Matamoros and hit Bagdad beach.
This whole discussion about locals not wanting the beach closed seems off kilter. The locals, along with lots of SpaceX fans, will flock to the area for every launch, even if they can't access a portion of the beach. Those beaches will see more business and visitors than they ever have before. Any inconvenience caused by a beach closure would be more than offset by an increase in onlookers and tourists when the beach is not closed.And don't forget that this development, should it go through, will create many new jobs in the area. The entire Rio Grande Valley area is developing rapidly, but most of the jobs are service and tourist type jobs. The local politicians and residents will be ecstatic to get an increase in their high-tech sector, along with the boost in service, retail, and tourist jobs that will follow.Putting up with the occasional beach closure will be more than offset by increases in tourism and business associated with supporting a SpaceX launch site. Even the most dedicated beach lounger would admit that.Mark S.
I've never been to Boca Chica. I've been two South Padre exactly twice.Last time I went to South Padre was in the middle of summer 2011, mid-week. Other than my family, the beach was empty as can be. Every half hour or so a truck would drive by (yes, vehicles are allowed on the beach) but that's it.I would expect Boca Chica to have significantly lower patronage.Holidays and weekends are different stories, of course. But even then I would not expect Boca Chica to be busy.
Quote from: Syrinx on 04/12/2013 05:41 pmI've never been to Boca Chica. I've been two South Padre exactly twice.Last time I went to South Padre was in the middle of summer 2011, mid-week. Other than my family, the beach was empty as can be. Every half hour or so a truck would drive by (yes, vehicles are allowed on the beach) but that's it.I would expect Boca Chica to have significantly lower patronage.Holidays and weekends are different stories, of course. But even then I would not expect Boca Chica to be busy.Must have been the northern part of South Padre. The southern end, closest to Boca Chica, is where all the big resorts and Marinas are, and whenever I've been down there in the summer (admittedly not for a number of years now, but I can't imagine it becoming less crowded) it's been pretty busy.
the proposed location in southern Texas was identified by SpaceX as the only viable location for SpaceX to construct and operate its commercial Falcon vehicles
Quote from: llanitedave on 04/13/2013 03:02 amQuote from: Syrinx on 04/12/2013 05:41 pmI've never been to Boca Chica. I've been two South Padre exactly twice.Last time I went to South Padre was in the middle of summer 2011, mid-week. Other than my family, the beach was empty as can be. Every half hour or so a truck would drive by (yes, vehicles are allowed on the beach) but that's it.I would expect Boca Chica to have significantly lower patronage.Holidays and weekends are different stories, of course. But even then I would not expect Boca Chica to be busy.Must have been the northern part of South Padre. The southern end, closest to Boca Chica, is where all the big resorts and Marinas are, and whenever I've been down there in the summer (admittedly not for a number of years now, but I can't imagine it becoming less crowded) it's been pretty busy.I don't know the area well enough to delineate north South Padre from south South Padre. But we were not far from the hotels and shops. We were staying in one of the major South Padre hotels. We did drive north up the coast a bit though.
Draft EIS, April 2013
Quotethe proposed location in southern Texas was identified by SpaceX as the only viable location for SpaceX to construct and operate its commercial Falcon vehiclesPage 1-5
2.1.1.9 Recovery EffortsFirst StageAfter a launch, the first stage of the Falcon 9 would land in the Gulf of Mexico, approximately 550 miles downrange, and would potentially be recovered by a salvage ship. The salvage ship would locate the first stage through telemetry signals from the stage. The recovered first stage would be returned to SpaceX facilities in Hawthorne, California. If the expended first stage could not be located, it would likely be due to damage. It would subsequently sink, and therefore it would not be recovered.Second StageThe second stage would go into orbit with the payload. It would be left in orbit and safed per FAA regulations (14 CFR Part 417.129), such as venting the vehicle and ensuring that the batteries would discharge.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ast/environmental/nepa_docs/review/documents_progress/spacex_texas_launch_site_environmental_impact_statement/Public Hearing on Draft EISThe FAA is holding a public hearing to obtain comments on the Draft EIS from the public. The hearing will be held on May 7, 2013 from 5:00 p.m.-8:00 p.m. at the International Technology Education and Commerce Center in Brownsville, Texas.The public hearing will include a poster information session from 5:00 p.m.- 6:00 p.m., an FAA presentation from 6:00 p.m.- 6:15 p.m., followed by a public statement period in which members of the public may provide up to a 3-minute statement. The FAA will transcribe all oral comments. All comments received during the comment period will be given equal weight and be taken into consideration in the preparation of the Final EIS.Public Comments on the Draft EISThe FAA encourages all interested parties to provide comments concerning the scope and content of the Draft EIS.The public comment period for the Draft EIS closes on June 3, 2013. Interested parties can submit comments on the Draft EIS in one of the following ways: Email comments to [email protected] Fax comments to (410) 990-0455 Provide oral or written comments at the Draft EIS Public Hearing (date and location provided above) Mail comments to: Ms. Stacy M. Zee FAA Environmental Protection Specialist SpaceX EIS c/o Cardno TEC, Inc. 275 West Street, Suite 110 Annapolis, MD 21409
There's quite a bit of info on propellant capacities and so on in this document. Here's one interesting bit:Quote2.1.1.9 Recovery EffortsFirst StageAfter a launch, the first stage of the Falcon 9 would land in the Gulf of Mexico, approximately 550 miles downrange, and would potentially be recovered by a salvage ship. The salvage ship would locate the first stage through telemetry signals from the stage. The recovered first stage would be returned to SpaceX facilities in Hawthorne, California. If the expended first stage could not be located, it would likely be due to damage. It would subsequently sink, and therefore it would not be recovered.Second StageThe second stage would go into orbit with the payload. It would be left in orbit and safed per FAA regulations (14 CFR Part 417.129), such as venting the vehicle and ensuring that the batteries would discharge.
Once you go north of town the island is sparsely populated, if at all, and the beach goes on for miles and miles.