NASASpaceFlight.com Forum

Commercial and US Government Launch Vehicles => ULA - Delta, Atlas, Vulcan => Topic started by: Hunt101 on 03/02/2011 03:48 am

Title: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Hunt101 on 03/02/2011 03:48 am
Distracted by Shuttle? ;)


March 3 (Thursday)

 

1000: Vehicle rollout to Launch Pad:  I will send out pictures afterwards.

 

1230: Remote camera photographers meet at Space X parking lot for escort to SLC-41 to set cameras

 

March 4 (Friday)

 

1430:  45 SW/PA meets unbadged media at SR 3 Pass and ID station across from Air Liquide Plant for escort to KSC press site to view launch

 

Live Broadcast Coverage:  The OTV launch will be carried live beginning 20 minutes prior to T-0. The broadcast will conclude 20 minutes after launch.

 

Webcast: A simulcast of the launch can be viewed at: http://www.ulalaunch.com/site/pages/Multimedia_Webcast.shtml
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunt101 on 03/02/2011 03:49 am
Satellite Coordinates:

 

ALL TIMES EASTERN STANDARD TIME

 

MARCH 4, 2011

 

BEGIN TRANSMISSION (BARS AND TONE) – 2:45 P.M.

BROADCAST START – 3:30 P.M.

END TRANSMISSION – 6:00 P.M.

 

SATELLITE – AMC 6

TRANSPONDER – 5C

BAND – C-BAND ANALOG

ORBITAL POSITION – 72 DEGREES W

CARRIER – SES AMERICOM

BANDWIDTH – 36 MHz

UPLINK FREQ – 6025 MHz (Horizontal)

DOWNLINK FREQ – 3800 MHz (Vertical)

 

Weather Forecast

 

Attached is the AV-026 OTV-2 Forecast.  There is no significant change in the

forecast with gusty Ground Winds and Cumulus Clouds the primary concerns.

 

Overall  probability of violating weather constraints:  60%

Primary concern(s):  Ground Winds, Cumulus Clouds

 

Overall probability of violating weather constraints for 24 hour delay:  60%

Primary concern(s):  Ground Winds, Cumulus Clouds

 

Summary:

 

Cold front transits peninsula today with isolated showers and a threat of

thunderstorms.  High pressure builds into the peninsula on Wednesday with the

front stalling in South Florida and the Florida Straits.  Low level moisture

coupled with strengthening Easterly winds introduces a morning isolated

coastal shower threat each day through launch day.  For MLP roll, winds are

expected from the East gusting in the mid 20s (230 feet).  On launch day, the

morning coastal shower threat and tight pressure gradient persist with

Easterly winds gusting in the mid 20s.  The primary concerns for launch day

are gusty Ground Winds and Cumulus Clouds.  In the event of a 24 hour delay,

high pressure retreats to the East with a persistent tight pressure gradient

and breezy Southeasterly winds in advance of the next cold front late Sunday

evening and into the overnight hours Monday morning.  The primary concerns for

a 24 hour delay are gusty Ground Winds and Cumulus Clouds.
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunt101 on 03/02/2011 03:49 am
http://www.ulalaunch.com/site/pages/Launch.shtml#/14/
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Lukeyson on 03/02/2011 05:20 am
Actually, I'm still in town following STS-133. From Australia I had chosen to be here for the whole STS launch window.

So here I am still for OTV-2.

I'm planning on taking a trip out to Playalinda to watch from there. Only problem is, I don't have a Cell phone here so no SMS updates from spaceflightnow, nor will I have an AM radio with me. (One is in the car rental of course, but that will be parked a mile up the beach as I understand it.) It would be nice to know if anyone else is usually out there at the security fence on the beach with launch updates.

I'm not sure what the usual protocol is here. Will we know any time in advance the intended launch time? I know the launch window, I just thought they might pin down the launch time at some point like 24 or 1 hour before the actual launch.

I'd considered paying for a visitor entry to KSCVC and watching it from the Saturn complex too, even though further away, just for the possibility of updates. But then I suspect that the buses stop running sometime before 5pm which means there's a risk of missing the launch if it's going to be late in the window.

ANyone have any advice to offer either way?


Luke
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/02/2011 02:20 pm
When would NOTAMs be issued for this launch? 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: kermit on 03/02/2011 02:26 pm
Luke, Check with the Canaveral National seashore(321-267-1110), Playalinda has been closed for most Atlas launches lately. I think the Saturn Complex will be your best choice.
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Rocket Guy on 03/02/2011 02:53 pm
That is not correct, Playalinda has been open for all daytime Atlas launches lately.
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Lukeyson on 03/02/2011 06:34 pm
If that is the recorded message, I called them last night, and there was no mention of any closure.

Will anyone else be going along to Playalinda?


Lukeyson
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Rocket Guy on 03/02/2011 06:45 pm
I wouldn't rely on what the visitors center says, I've caught them within hours of launch not knowing anything was even launching. Perhaps if you call while on your way and say "are you open" you'll know whether or not to venture out there.

Best bet is to assume they are open 6am to 6/8pm (depending on time of year). They will probably close for the MSL launch as well.
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: kermit on 03/02/2011 06:59 pm
If that is the recorded message, I called them last night, and there was no mention of any closure.

Will anyone else be going along to Playalinda?


I called that number and the lady says as far as she knows the beach will be open. That number is the Titusville office of the Canaveral NS and during business hours someone usually answers the phone.
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: jacqmans on 03/03/2011 03:23 am
3:39 p.m.: Launch window opens. We expect to release the targeted launch
time Friday morning.

Webcast: The launch can be viewed via Webcast at:
http://www.ulalaunch.com; simulcast
http://www.ulalaunch.com/site/pages/Multimedia_Webcast.shtml.

Weather Forecast, L-2, attached:
There is no significant change in the forecast with gusty Ground Winds and
Cumulus Clouds the primary concerns.
Overall  probability of violating weather constraints:  70%
Primary concern(s):  Ground Winds, Cumulus Clouds

Overall probability of violating weather constraints for 24 hour delay:  60%
Primary concern(s):  Ground Winds, Cumulus Clouds

Summary: High pressure builds into the peninsula today with cold front
stalling in South Florida and the Florida Straits.  Low level moisture
coupled with strengthening Easterly winds introduces a morning isolated
coastal shower threat each day through launch day.  For MLP roll, winds are
expected from the East gusting in the mid to upper 20s (230 feet).  On
launch day, the morning coastal shower threat and tight pressure gradient
persist with Easterly winds gusting in the mid to upper 20s.  The primary
concerns for launch day are gusty Ground Winds and Cumulus Clouds.

In the event of a 24-hour delay, high pressure retreats to the East with a
persistent tight pressure gradient and breezy Southeasterly winds in advance
of the next cold front Sunday evening and into the overnight hours Monday
morning.  The primary concerns for a 24-hour delay are gusty Ground Winds
and Cumulus Clouds.

Note:  Dates and times of all launches are subject to change.
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2011 05:22 pm
Launch Hazard Area
http://www.patrick.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-061109-038.doc

Restricted Airspace Map
http://www.patrick.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-061115-003.doc

I'm not sure what to make of these.  I don't see a clear indication of a northeast azimuth like that flown during the first X-37B launch.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2011 05:33 pm
Rollout appears to be approaching.

EDIT - Roll underway beginning at about 1:45 PM Eastern Time.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2011 05:58 pm
Out of the barn.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2011 06:00 pm
Interesting view of the rocket base.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/03/2011 06:05 pm
I'm not sure what to make of these.  I don't see a clear indication of a northeast azimuth like that flown during the first X-37B launch.

 - Ed Kyle

Maybe it has a different mission than the previous launch???
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2011 06:05 pm
Moving out.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2011 06:08 pm
A look at the "train" that accompanies the mobile platform.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2011 06:09 pm
AV-026 enters the pad perimeter.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2011 06:13 pm
Nearly there.  Only 25 minutes since first motion so far.  A fast train!

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: ugordan on 03/03/2011 06:14 pm
That *is* pretty fast (for vehicle rollout standards).
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2011 06:17 pm
Now slowly pulling into the launch position.  This part takes awhile.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Rocket Guy on 03/03/2011 06:24 pm

I'm not sure what to make of these.  I don't see a clear indication of a northeast azimuth like that flown during the first X-37B launch.

 - Ed Kyle

The first one went southeast at launch as well then changed plane.
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2011 06:27 pm
There, or nearly so.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2011 06:32 pm

I'm not sure what to make of these.  I don't see a clear indication of a northeast azimuth like that flown during the first X-37B launch.

 - Ed Kyle

The first one went southeast at launch as well then changed plane.

Ahhhh.  O.K.  Centaur, and even the Atlas stage, can probably dogleg a lot with this payload. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2011 06:47 pm
Here's a closeup of, I think, the LOX line and umbilical.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/03/2011 07:24 pm
Heh, nice thread start Hunt101. I know I was ;)

And thanks to Ed for rollout - nice coverage!

   Cape Canaveral AFS, Fla. (March, 3, 2011) -  A United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket with the Air Force’s Second Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV) rolls out to its Space Launch Complex-41 launch pad arriving at 2:30 p.m. EST today.  The launch of the OTV-2 mission is set for Friday with the launch period opening at 3:39 p.m. EST.  The OTV-2, also known as the X-37B, supports space experimentation, risk reduction, and concept of operations development for long duration and reusable space vehicle technologies. Photos by Pat Corkery, United Launch Alliance.



Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/03/2011 08:47 pm
Up at LC 39, we will, or should, know when the final Shuttle is being launched (hopefully the STS-135 plans will be known by the time STS-134 flies).  But at SLC 41 we are left to wonder if X-37B OTV-2 is merely the second flight of a program that extends into the future - or the last of its type ever. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/03/2011 08:53 pm
But at SLC 41 we are left to wonder if X-37B OTV-2 is merely the second flight of a program that extends into the future - or the last of its type ever. 

 - Ed Kyle

There was mention in one of spaceflightnow articles about them looking to re-fly vehicle one at some point in the future.
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Antares on 03/03/2011 09:18 pm
Here's a closeup of, I think, the LOX line and umbilical.

Looks like a pogo suppressor inside the tan foam.  SRB aft attach fittings on the main core (truly a common core).
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Lukeyson on 03/04/2011 02:02 am
I was on the Cape tour today. I was certainly not as close as all these excellent pictures, but we could clearly see it on the pad.

In fact from the Causeway you could see all launchers out there at once - Atlas and OTV-2, Falcon-9 and COTS-2 and the Delta at LC-37 (Got a great view of that from LC-34 on the tour).

I'm set to watch from the Saturn V centre if OTV-2 goes up before 5pm. Otherwise I can run out to Playalinda if needed. I just hope we can get some indication of launch time in the morning as mentioned,


Lukeyson
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/04/2011 02:03 am
Falcon-9 and COTS-2

That was just the erector and not the vehicle
Title: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Lukeyson on 03/04/2011 03:50 am
Falcon-9 and COTS-2

That was just the erector and not the vehicle

Gotcha. Thanks.

I zoomed in a few times as best I could and it did look a bit funny. That explains it.


Luke
Title: Re: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Lukeyson on 03/04/2011 12:42 pm
March 4 (Friday)

 

0830: Remote camera photographers meet at Space X parking lot for escort to SLC-41 to set cameras

 

1430:  45 SW/PA meets unbadged media at SR 3 Pass and ID station across from Air Liquide Plant for escort to KSC press site to view launch

 

Live Broadcast Coverage:  The OTV-2 launch will be carried live beginning 20 minutes prior to T-0. The broadcast will conclude 20 minutes after launch.

 

Webcast: A simulcast of the launch can be viewed at: http://www.ulalaunch.com/site/pages/Multimedia_Webcast.shtml

 

Satellite Coordinates:

 

ALL TIMES EASTERN STANDARD TIME

 

MARCH 4, 2011

 

BEGIN TRANSMISSION (BARS AND TONE) – 2:45 P.M.

BROADCAST START – 3:30 P.M.

END TRANSMISSION – 6:00 P.M.

 

SATELLITE – AMC 6

TRANSPONDER – 5C

BAND – C-BAND ANALOG

ORBITAL POSITION – 72 DEGREES W

CARRIER – SES AMERICOM

BANDWIDTH – 36 MHz

UPLINK FREQ – 6025 MHz (Horizontal)

DOWNLINK FREQ – 3800 MHz (Vertical)

 

Weather Forecast

 

Attached is the AV-026 OTV-2 Forecast.  There is no significant change in

the forecast with gusty Ground Winds and Cumulus Clouds the primary

concerns.

 

Overall probability of violating weather constraints:  70%

Primary concern(s):  Ground Winds, Cumulus Clouds

 

Overall probability of violating weather constraints for 24 hour delay:  60%

 

Primary concern(s):  Ground Winds, Cumulus Clouds

 

Overall probability of violating weather constraints for 48 hour delay:  70%

 

Primary concern(s):  Cumulus Clouds, Disturbed Weather, Thick Clouds

 

Overall probability of violating weather constraints for 72 hour delay:  20%

 

Primary concern(s):  Thick Clouds

 

Summary:

 

High pressure centered well to the North with tight pressure gradient.  Low

level moisture coupled with strengthening Easterly winds introduces a

morning isolated coastal shower threat each day through Saturday.  For MLP

roll, winds are expected from the East gusting in the mid to upper 20s (230

feet).  On launch day, the morning coastal shower threat and tight pressure

gradient persist with Easterly winds gusting in the mid to upper 20s.  The

primary concerns for launch day are gusty Ground Winds and Cumulus Clouds.

In the event of a 24 hour delay, high pressure retreats to the East with a

persistent tight pressure gradient and breezy Southeasterly winds in advance

of the next cold front Sunday evening.  The primary concerns for a 24 hour

delay are gusty Ground Winds and Cumulus Clouds.  In the event of a 48 hour

delay, the aforementioned cold front is expected in the big bend area late

morning and nearing Central Florida late afternoon with cloudy conditions

and pre-frontal showers expected during the afternoon with a threat of an

isolated thunderstorm.  Southwest winds expected gusting in the upper teens

during the window.   The primary concerns for a 48 hour delay are Cumulus

Clouds, Disturbed Weather, and Thick Clouds.  In the event of a 72 hour

delay, the cold front is expected to be in South Florida with North to

Northeast winds gusting in the mid to upper teens.  The primary concerns for

a 72 hour delay are residual Thick Clouds associated with cold frontal

passage.

 

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 03:52 pm
Moved for live coverage. Article from William shortly.

However, sources note NASA, USAF and Aerospace are meeting to ensure there are no common components between the Taurus XL components that could be at fault for this morning's failure and the Atlas V that will launch today.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: jacqmans on 03/04/2011 04:09 pm
Just got back from remote camera setup, all looks good only the high wind can cause a delay right now...tanking should start at 1:45 and launch would be at 3:50

Photos wil follow later
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 04:22 pm
Sources: USAF and ULA have cleared commonality using same rationale as the OCO clearance.  No constraints due to the Glory failure.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 04:23 pm
Several weather rules red at the moment.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: jacqmans on 03/04/2011 04:38 pm
Atlas-5 this morning...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 05:04 pm
Another excellent launch preview article by William Graham:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/03/live-atlas-v-otv-2-launch/
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 05:29 pm
Go for cryo tanking.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: jacqmans on 03/04/2011 05:49 pm
Lots of rain comming down at the Cape right now. Could not see the launch pad from the press site 5 min. ago.....
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 06:10 pm
The Centaur LOX tank is at 95% full, topping commencing.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 06:18 pm
Upper stage LOX is fueled to flight level, while the first stage LOX has switched to fast fill.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 06:27 pm
Gut feeling is that the approaching weather will violate criteria during the window.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 06:30 pm
Starting Centaur LH2 tanking.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 06:36 pm
Starting Centaur LH2 tanking.

Appreciate the updates sir.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 06:39 pm
First stage LOX at 70% full.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 06:49 pm
Atlas LOX and Centaur LH2 into topping.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: jacqmans on 03/04/2011 06:49 pm
Current Live Shot....

There is a lot of wind outside. The wind limit for launch is 19 knots or less.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 06:58 pm
Weather has degraded.  20% chance of weather allowing launch today.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 07:03 pm
25 minutes to the webcast.

http://www.ulalaunch.com/site/pages/Flash_Webcast.shtml

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: jacqmans on 03/04/2011 07:04 pm
Weather is green for now !!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: asmolenski on 03/04/2011 07:07 pm
Weather is green for now !!!

Key words there are 'for now.' Watching the storm cells off the coast moving directly toward the pad. Also, aren't winds still over the limit or is that green for now as well?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: jacqmans on 03/04/2011 07:08 pm
Wind is good now also.

Weather green means wind, rain etc....
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: marcof on 03/04/2011 07:19 pm
annoyingly, their live web cast seems to be down? All I get is their logo showing.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: asmolenski on 03/04/2011 07:21 pm
Looking at radar, storms look to be about 40-60 minutes out, launch is in just under 40 minutes! This may be a close call on the weather!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 07:21 pm
annoyingly, their live web cast seems to be down? All I get is their logo showing.

Hasn't started yet. See the post about five above this one about how long until it starts.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 07:22 pm
Under L-30 minutes
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: jacqmans on 03/04/2011 07:25 pm
shot from the press site I made 1 minute ago
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 07:27 pm
Looking at radar, storms look to be about 40-60 minutes out, launch is in just under 40 minutes! This may be a close call on the weather!

Nope.  Forecasting red well before that.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: jacqmans on 03/04/2011 07:28 pm
It is expected 90% NO go at 3:50pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 07:29 pm
Webcast starting.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: asmolenski on 03/04/2011 07:29 pm
Looking at radar, storms look to be about 40-60 minutes out, launch is in just under 40 minutes! This may be a close call on the weather!

Nope.  Forecasting red well before that.
Yup, looks like the storms have picked up a little speed and filled in a little bit ahead of the main batch. I'd say within 20 minutes they'll be coming onshore.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: marcof on 03/04/2011 07:30 pm


Hasn't started yet. See the post about five above this one about how long until it starts.

D'oh .. didn't notice the T-4 hold was about 20 minutes.. (using MissionClock iPhone app)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 07:30 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 07:32 pm
Heh. Missed it on the screenshot, but one of the USAF guys came the camera a nice wave :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 07:33 pm
Coming up on L-15 minutes.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 07:33 pm
Weather is currently green.  Have been red for a significant part of the afternoon.   Expected to go back red.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 07:34 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 07:36 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Steve_the_Deev on 03/04/2011 07:37 pm
USAF will not launch this today IMHO, she is too valuable and since the Taurus failed this morning a dual failure although completely no relation in vehicle design, would be too much for the average non aerospace person to "get".  It would be a huge hit to launches in general if it failed today.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunt101 on 03/04/2011 07:39 pm
USAF will not launch this today IMHO, she is too valuable and since the Taurus failed this morning a dual failure although completely no relation in vehicle design, would be too much for the average non aerospace person to "get".  It would be a huge hit to launches in general if it failed today.

We won't launch if the parameters do not allow. It has NOTHING to do with any additional constraints related to another vehicle. Very unthoughtful post.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 07:40 pm
L-10 minutes. Let's keep this on updates only.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 07:40 pm
Still green.  No cumulus cloud violation as expected.  L-10 minutes.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/04/2011 07:43 pm
Missed to first 'in memory' screen shot...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/04/2011 07:44 pm
There was something about a donation to build a Atlas V museum, I think in San Diego (or if that was only part of the dedication that was mentioned)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 07:44 pm
No go due to high ground winds. 24 knots, gusting above 30.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 07:45 pm
Currently no-go due to the high ground winds.  L-5 minutes.  Expected red for cumulus clouds at 3:48pm EST.  Look at holding for later in the window.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 07:45 pm
Extending the hold 5 minutes.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 07:47 pm
Launch now 3:55pm EST.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 07:48 pm
Weather is red.  Extending hold another 5.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 07:49 pm
Wanting to extend the hold another 5 minutes, no currently rescheduled T-0.

Red for Cumulus Clouds and High Ground Winds.  View from OTV-001.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 07:50 pm
Weather will stay red through 21:00Z and beyond.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 07:51 pm
22:27Z is the new T-0.  5:27pm EST.  Rain is now falling.

Coverage breaking for now, will be back at 5:15pm EST.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Steve_the_Deev on 03/04/2011 07:54 pm
These guys will many times "talk themselves into" a weather waiver and launch their vehicle.  It really depends on if the violations are high level winds (high shear loads on the stack) or low level winds.  High lvl winds I believe are a little harder to talk yourself into launching through because if there is a failure at that higher altitude more people will see come apart, ah!     :)

Still 4 minutes and counting.  Are these guys talking themselves into a waiver?  I know this, someone is writing it up right now and prepping the team for sign-off on it just in case they have to punch through the constraint quickly.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/04/2011 07:56 pm
Still 4 minutes and counting.  Are these guys talking themselves into a waiver?  I know this, someone is writing it up right now and prepping the team for sign-off on it just in case they have to punch through the constraint quickly.

I thought it was pushed back two hours?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/04/2011 07:56 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/04/2011 07:57 pm
An interesting day from a photographer's view.  Constantly shifting light, clouds, etc.  No two seconds present the same scene.  :)

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/04/2011 07:59 pm
These guys will many times "talk themselves into" a weather waiver and launch their vehicle.  It really depends on if the violations are high level winds (high shear loads on the stack) or low level winds.  High lvl winds I believe are a little harder to talk yourself into launching through because if there is a failure at that higher altitude more people will see come apart, ah!     :)

Still 4 minutes and counting.  Are these guys talking themselves into a waiver?  I know this, someone is writing it up right now and prepping the team for sign-off on it just in case they have to punch through the constraint quickly.

No, you are talking old school shuttle and not the current era.  ULA doesn't waiver mandatory launch constraints on the day of launch.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Steve_the_Deev on 03/04/2011 07:59 pm
Oops, I got behind the power curve.  I should have read you guys' comments earlier.  Great job on the updates on weather and the new T-0.
I never heard them say anything??  OK now guys, who's posting or on the hard line to the Control Room, huh  :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: asmolenski on 03/04/2011 08:07 pm
You could hear in the feed a request for a new T-0 time of 22:27 Zulu.

 :P
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 08:11 pm
About to scrub for the day.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/04/2011 08:12 pm
About to scrub for the day.

Thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: William Graham on 03/04/2011 08:24 pm
These guys will many times "talk themselves into" a weather waiver and launch their vehicle.  It really depends on if the violations are high level winds (high shear loads on the stack) or low level winds.  High lvl winds I believe are a little harder to talk yourself into launching through because if there is a failure at that higher altitude more people will see come apart, ah!     :)

Still 4 minutes and counting.  Are these guys talking themselves into a waiver?  I know this, someone is writing it up right now and prepping the team for sign-off on it just in case they have to punch through the constraint quickly.

Not after AC-67.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 08:27 pm
About to scrub for the day.

Appreciated, if a shame (nothing anyone can do about weather).
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 08:32 pm
Going to wait closer to the new t-0 before calling it.  Weather said it wouldn't go green until well after the window, then said they could move earlier if the current storm erodes.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: asmolenski on 03/04/2011 08:33 pm
Going to wait closer to the new t-0 before calling it.  Weather said it wouldn't go green until well after the window, then said they could move earlier if the current storm erodes.

So the 10 minute window that opens at 22:27 ZULU isn't the only opportunity remaining today? Meaning, they can move it up earlier still if I understand you correctly?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/04/2011 08:40 pm
Going to wait closer to the new t-0 before calling it.  Weather said it wouldn't go green until well after the window, then said they could move earlier if the current storm erodes.

There's a LONG line of rain on a trek straight towards the launchpad... The "current" storm is gone but I don't think this next area is going to dry up that quickly.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 08:42 pm
They *might* be able to move up their green time from well after the window to inside the window if the storm erodes.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/04/2011 08:49 pm
They will have at least light rain for the next hour or so. If it has to be fully dry, it won't happen. If they can take sprinkles, there is still hope.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 09:00 pm
No technical issues in work as of right now.  If we aren't in the air by 5:37pm EST, they'll have to scrub and try again tomorrow.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: jacqmans on 03/04/2011 09:03 pm
It is still raining here....does not look so good...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/04/2011 09:05 pm
Right, it's going to rain the next 45 minutes at the least. I'm assuming some rain is not an issue? Otherwise I'm not sure why the weather group thinks they might fit it in.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 09:06 pm
It is still raining here....does not look so good...

Word is 10% chance of a launch tonight, as they are expected no-go for most of the night at the cape.  Sounds like various cloud concerns are what is the show stopper, not hearing anything about the rain being an issue.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 09:15 pm
Webcast due back on.

http://www.ulalaunch.com/site/pages/Flash_Webcast.shtml
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/04/2011 09:15 pm
Pretty miserable-looking today.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/04/2011 09:17 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 09:20 pm
Do not expect to get a clear range for launch due to weather.  Polling underway.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 09:20 pm
Polling for status to continue the count.

No go due to weather.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 09:20 pm
All are go except range weather.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 09:21 pm
Extending hold like before.  Expect scrub when out of window.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 09:21 pm
Launch Director is no-go due to high ground winds and red range weather.  Extending hold 5 minutes.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 09:23 pm
No rescheduled T-0 time.  Window open until 5:37pm EST, then we will stand down.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/04/2011 09:23 pm
LD and SMD just recommended 24hr scrub.  Wx slightly better than experienced today, but still 70%POV.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 09:23 pm
Official scrub.  24hr turnaround.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 09:24 pm
Weather also marginal for tomorrow.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/04/2011 09:29 pm
Did they say why? Cursory glance looks fairly good to me, but their criteria are too different than shuttle to know offhand ;)
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/04/2011 09:30 pm
High ground winds and cloud concerns.  Didn't hear anything about the rain being an issue.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 09:32 pm
Did they say why? Cursory glance looks fairly good to me, but their criteria are too different than shuttle to know offhand ;)

PAO guy on the webcast :)
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/04/2011 09:34 pm
Atlas V OTV-2 Mission Rescheduled for March 5

 

Cape Canaveral AFS, Fla. (Mar. 4, 2011) - The launch attempt of the United Launch Alliance Atlas V with the Air Force’s second Orbital Test Vehicle was scrubbed today for weather.  Thick cumulus clouds, which could produce triggered lightning, were within 10 miles of Space Launch Complex-41 during the scheduled launch windows. This is a launch criteria violation.

The Atlas V vehicle and OTV-2 are safe and secure at this time. The launch is rescheduled for Saturday, March 5 at 4:09 p.m. EST.

Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/04/2011 09:38 pm
Interesting. I'm thinking partly sunny, slight chance of a shower (< 25%) and winds 10-20mph.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: zerm on 03/05/2011 12:27 am
Atlas V OTV-2 Mission Rescheduled for March 5
 Thick cumulus clouds, which could produce triggered lightning, were within 10 miles of Space Launch Complex-41 during the scheduled launch windows. This is a launch criteria violation.


I was there back in the 80s and saw... well, heard, actually... one of the old style Atlas boosters get blown up following a "triggered lightning" event. There was the roar of the launch- the boom of the thunder- and the booms of the distruct packages shortly there after. Low clouds, heavy rain and low viz. kept us from seeing anything.

I wonder how prone this version of "Atlas" is to lightning strikes? Someone in the know, please chime in.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Antares on 03/05/2011 01:05 am
AC-67. There weren't as many weather LCC's back then. None were violated that day even though most folks could intuit that they shouldn't be going. Some places around the Cape that day, people couldn't see their cars from the door of their building because the rain was so thick.  Many different fleets learned from the loss of that Atlas and its payload.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: WHAP on 03/05/2011 01:41 am
Atlas V OTV-2 Mission Rescheduled for March 5
 Thick cumulus clouds, which could produce triggered lightning, were within 10 miles of Space Launch Complex-41 during the scheduled launch windows. This is a launch criteria violation.


I was there back in the 80s and saw... well, heard, actually... one of the old style Atlas boosters get blown up following a "triggered lightning" event. There was the roar of the launch- the boom of the thunder- and the booms of the distruct packages shortly there after. Low clouds, heavy rain and low viz. kept us from seeing anything.

I wonder how prone this version of "Atlas" is to lightning strikes? Someone in the know, please chime in.

The version doesn't matter.  The plume creates a ground path.

An LH2/LO2 booster might not have the same potential, but I wouldn't risk it with a Delta IV, with all the smoke from the burning insulation. :D
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: rickl on 03/05/2011 01:51 am
Probably a silly question, but do they unload the fuel and oxidizer for a 24-hour turnaround and then refuel it again tomorrow?  (I would imagine that they would have already done that by now, if they were going to.)
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Oystein on 03/05/2011 01:53 am
Hi!

Here's some pictures I took of the rollout of the Atlas V - X37B flight 2.

Better luck tomorrow.

--
Ψystein
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: zerm on 03/05/2011 02:11 am
AC-67. There weren't as many weather LCC's back then. None were violated that day even though most folks could intuit that they shouldn't be going. Some places around the Cape that day, people couldn't see their cars from the door of their building because the rain was so thick.  Many different fleets learned from the loss of that Atlas and its payload.

Yep- that was it.

Don't recall where they had the press (us) that day, I just remember that we drove to where they told us and a few cars with other media were parked there. We all waited in our cars because the rain was so heavy. At launch time we got out and sheltered under the awning of a small nearby building. We heard the launch roar, looked at one another and said something like "I can't believe they're launching in this stuff." One guy quipped something such as "Hey, it's an Atlas- they used to be ICBMs." Then we heard the thunderclap- it stood out because there had been no thunder in all that rain. I flashed back to Apollo 12 and said something about generated lightning... everyone scoffed. Then we heard destruct packages. Some thought it was more, but distant, thunder. Then we got the word that they'd lost the vehicle. We never saw a thing. It was a strange launch indeed.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Steve_the_Deev on 03/05/2011 02:58 am
These guys will many times "talk themselves into" a weather waiver and launch their vehicle.  It really depends on if the violations are high level winds (high shear loads on the stack) or low level winds.  High lvl winds I believe are a little harder to talk yourself into launching through because if there is a failure at that higher altitude more people will see come apart, ah!     :)

Still 4 minutes and counting.  Are these guys talking themselves into a waiver?  I know this, someone is writing it up right now and prepping the team for sign-off on it just in case they have to punch through the constraint quickly.

Not after AC-67.

I am so glad you mentioned the AC-67 launch!  That was the day they did talk themselves into launching, I was there and amazed.  I was standing outside KSC Complex H when the Fl Today photographer took our picture while we (MPS/SSME Shuttle team engineers) watched and HEARD the failure!  Launch was heard  and then a loud "CRACK" sound from as  lightning hit the rocket as it went through the "soup" that day.  We all were amazed that we were in the paper the next day, I will get the picture and scan it in.  We could not see the rocket but all of us were surprised it went.  This was in 1987 and I thought there was no way they would launch through that "soup" in the sky!  It was a lightning strike just waiting to happen ....it did!

Before the AC-67 launch, there were a significant number of indications that generally the weather was unfavorable and that specifically there was a lightning hazard. Yet the real import of these indications escaped the launch management team because of imprecise communications, lack of awareness, or both.

Although the Weather Officer did give a go-for-weather as late as lift-off minus three minutes, there was a belief among some members of the launch weather team that their function was only to provide data to the Launch Director for his analysis and that the Launch Director must decide if the weather criteria had been met.

They decided to "GO" and the rest is history,

It gave us all on the the Shuttle team an eye opening realization that lightning is a killer. Shuttle Weather would never have given a go that day I can promise that.

I never heard any concerns today that lightning was an issue for the  no go?
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Steve_the_Deev on 03/05/2011 03:04 am
OK, I did just read that the Cumulus clouds were a lightning issue today.  Sorry I missed that (ref my previous entry).

Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Antares on 03/05/2011 03:33 am
Probably a silly question, but do they unload the fuel and oxidizer for a 24-hour turnaround and then refuel it again tomorrow?  (I would imagine that they would have already done that by now, if they were going to.)

The RP-1 stays onboard since it's not cryogenic.  The LOX and hydrogen are unloaded back into their nice, cold storage spheres.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: ugordan on 03/05/2011 09:28 am
It gave us all on the the Shuttle team an eye opening realization that lightning is a killer.

Why would Shuttle team need that eye opener after Apollo 12, anyway?
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: starsalor on 03/05/2011 10:13 am
I think that evryone is gun-shy because of the loss of Challenger..which in my opinion has made us lose our "risk " edge ! Never loss a Saturn 5 because "IT WAS DONE RIGHT  ! " Need to get back to the old ways.. Remember. " The more you risk..the MORE you gain. Also the Russians launch in any weather.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: ugordan on 03/05/2011 10:18 am
Never loss a Saturn 5 because "IT WAS DONE RIGHT  ! " they were lucky.

Fixed that for you. Lightning could have just as easily knocked out Saturn's IU on Apollo 12.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: douglas100 on 03/05/2011 10:44 am
From starsalor:

Quote
Also the Russians launch in any weather.

I remember a launch from Plesetsk being postponed for a day due to high winds. Don't remember which one, however.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Steve_the_Deev on 03/05/2011 11:33 am
It gave us all on the the Shuttle team an eye opening realization that lightning is a killer.

Why would Shuttle team need that eye opener after Apollo 12, anyway?

The Shuttle program became it's own "world".  The AC-67 event was an eye opener for many of the new engineers, techs, test conductors etc that did not work Apollo and that was probably 80% of the workforce.  I only knew a couple NASA engineers that worked Apollo and they were already past retirement age, we did have more Apollo era contractor engineers (Boeing, Rockwell etc) though.  The Shuttle program did not transfer Apollo's "Tribal Knowledge" to Shuttle as much as many might think.  I was MPS and everyone I knew was astounded AC-67 launched, by my definition that is an eye opener.  I'm not saying we changed any launch procedures (weather issues) on Shuttle because of AC-67 but I guarantee you the Test Conductors and Weather guys did go into their criteria to compare the AC-67 event with the Shuttle's Weather Launch Criteria (LCC).
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: Orbiter on 03/05/2011 11:54 am
I think that evryone is gun-shy because of the loss of Challenger..which in my opinion has made us lose our "risk " edge ! Never loss a Saturn 5 because "IT WAS DONE RIGHT  ! " Need to get back to the old ways.. Remember. " The more you risk..the MORE you gain. Also the Russians launch in any weather.

If you think the fact the Atlas V scrub was bad, you might remember how nearly impossible it was to launch STS-127 in a Florida summer.

Orbiter
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 12:20 pm
WEATHER FORECAST

 

Attached is the AV-026 OTV-2 Forecast for a 05 March attempt. 

 

Overall  probability of violating weather constraints:  60%

Primary concern(s):  Cumulus Clouds, Ground Winds

 

Overall probability of violating weather constraints for 24 hour delay:  70%

Primary concern(s):  Cumulus Clouds, Disturbed Weather, Thick Clouds

 

Overall probability of violating weather constraints for 48 hour delay:  20%

Primary concern(s):  Thick Clouds

 

Summary:

 

High pressure centered well to the North will persist with a slight

reduction in the pressure gradient. Winds are expected to be gusting in the

mid-20s during the count from the Southeast with a slow reduction late in

the count and window.  Low level moisture coupled with strong, persistent,

on-shore, Easterly winds continue the coastal shower threat with a slight

reduction of the threat during the afternoon hours. The primary concerns for

launch day are Cumulus Clouds and gusty Ground Winds.  In the event of a 24

hour delay (Sunday), a cold front transits the peninsula through the day

nearing Central Florida by late afternoon.  Cloudy conditions and

pre-frontal showers are expected during the afternoon with a threat of an

isolated thunderstorm.  Southwest winds are expected with gusts in the upper

teens during the window.   The primary concerns for a 24 hour delay are

Cumulus Clouds, Disturbed Weather, and Thick Clouds.  In the event of a 48

hour delay, the aforementioned cold front is expected to be in South Florida

with North to Northeast winds gusting in the mid to upper teens.  The

primary concerns for a 48 hour delay are residual Thick Clouds associated

with cold frontal passage.

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 12:20 pm
If they don't launch today, standdown to Monday. Based on crew workloads.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Lukeyson on 03/05/2011 12:22 pm
Meh. AC-67 probably failed because no-one was onboard to set SCE to Aux!

Sorry, 'possibly distasteful attempt at Apollo 12 humour' alert....


Lukeyson
Title: Re: SCRUB: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 4, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/05/2011 12:50 pm
Mostly sunny to start the day off, we'll see some clouds build in this afternoon with a stray shower threat.

The more you risk..the MORE you gain.

Knowledge comes from balancing risk from reward. What harm is there to the mission by waiting a day? Balance that against the harm of launching into a thunderstorm and losing the mission. It's not 50/50.

Quote
Also the Russians launch in any weather.

Completely inaccurate.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: jacqmans on 03/05/2011 02:10 pm
From now on, please, only ATLAS-5 upates !!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Rocket Nut on 03/05/2011 02:41 pm
I was selfishly pleased that they scrubbed.  I was conducting a tour at the local warbird museum at the original T0.  We looked over at the lousy weather hoping to at least hear the launch.  After that tour, I went back inside and saw the time for the next window and was relieved.

I am not scheduled for any tours today, so I will be at the river at launch time...hoping...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ford Mustang on 03/05/2011 04:14 pm
Under 4 hours from launch.  Sounds like the current weather concern is wind, as they are hovering around the limits for launch.  Still have a long time to go.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 04:55 pm
Reminder of William's launch preview while we wait:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/03/live-atlas-v-otv-2-launch/
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/05/2011 06:03 pm
Good area of sinking air over the cape is keeping things dry. Just a slight shower risk still, winds are from the east at 10-15mph which seems far enough below limits to be green.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 06:11 pm
ULA PAO Mike e-mails a new T-0: 5:46pm Eastern.

Engineers had to replace a regulator valve on a piece of equipment on the system that provides a helium purge to the rocket's interstage adapter area.

Work is going well, but having to aim for the second window (10 minute window, last op.)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/05/2011 06:43 pm
Wind advisory for 18kt sustained winds has been canceled.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 07:27 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/05/2011 07:30 pm
Cryo tanking started about half an hour ago.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/05/2011 07:35 pm
Cryo tanking started about half an hour ago.

Cool, thanks!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/05/2011 07:36 pm
T-90 minutes and counting.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/05/2011 07:45 pm
Centaur LOX into topping.
Title: MEL Weather Radar
Post by: HIPAR on 03/05/2011 07:45 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 07:49 pm
Keeping us in the clear
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/05/2011 07:49 pm
A few sprinkles just popped up near the pad, shouldn't last long.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 07:49 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 07:51 pm
range is go, weather is good tanking continuing per PAO
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/05/2011 07:52 pm
range is go, weather is good tanking continuing per PAO

And to add: winds are close to the red line, but still within the limit
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/05/2011 07:55 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/05/2011 07:56 pm
T-70 minutes. Seeing just a few gusts above the limits at XMR but just barelyl.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/05/2011 08:09 pm
Barge going through the box but "it's smoking north" so shouldn't be an issue long enough to worry.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/05/2011 08:16 pm
Winds at the complex are <15kts.
Currently red for a cumulus cloud, but expected to clear ~L-60:00.  At least for this cloud.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/05/2011 08:31 pm
Can see the clouds in this pic
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/05/2011 08:43 pm
Weather criteria back to green.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:01 pm
L-45 minutes.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/05/2011 09:06 pm
Due to the regulator change-out, the count was started early for this later window.  So into the T-4 hold already.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:16 pm
10 minutes until the webcast.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/05/2011 09:18 pm
30% probability of weather violation for the remainder of the count, small likelihood of a pop-up shower/cumulus or wind gust.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:26 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:27 pm
new opening
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:27 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:28 pm
live coverage will conclude after 17.5 minutes into launch
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:29 pm
Looks nice today.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:29 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:29 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:30 pm
L-15 minutes.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:31 pm
Video of processing rollout of OTV-2
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:32 pm
Rollout:
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:35 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:36 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Hunts Villain on 03/05/2011 09:37 pm
ULA engineering, spacecraft and range polls complete and GO.  Final LC poll upcoming.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:37 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:38 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:39 pm
Polling to come out of the hold.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:39 pm
conducting status check
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:40 pm
all go, proceeding with count

I am going to only post screen shots when the count picks up
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:41 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Steve_the_Deev on 03/05/2011 09:41 pm
I worked with Jose Godany Sr.  He was a great structural mechanic.  He is one of the two guys this launch is in dedication to.  I also worked at Harlingen for a couple years when I worked on the building of the Atlas Vehicle Payload Adapters and Equipment Modules.  He worked building the Boat Tail section as best I remember.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:41 pm
Picking up the count.

T-4 minutes and counting!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:43 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:43 pm
Atlas tanks to flight pressure.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:43 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:43 pm
FTS internal.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:43 pm
FTS on internal power.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:43 pm
Spacecraft on internal power.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:44 pm
T-120 seconds.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:44 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:44 pm
Launch Sequencer Start.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:44 pm
Vehicle on internal power.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:44 pm
Launch enable.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:44 pm
Centaur tanks securing.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:44 pm
FTS armed.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:45 pm
T-60 seconds.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:45 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:46 pm
Vent Valves locked.

Go Atlas. Go Centaur!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:46 pm
Go Atlas, Go Centaur!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:46 pm
LAUNCH!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:46 pm
Liftoff!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:46 pm
Pitch program. Tank Pressures stable.

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:46 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:47 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:47 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:47 pm
T+60 seconds. Zero angle of attack.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:47 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:47 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:47 pm
3.5 miles alt. 1,100 mph
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:47 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:47 pm
Mach 1.
Max Q.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:47 pm
Closed-loop PU control. Looking really nice!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:48 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:48 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:48 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:48 pm
Closed loop steering enabled.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:48 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:48 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:48 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:49 pm
2.5 G throttling.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:49 pm
RCS pressurizing. 2.5G throttling.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:49 pm
47 miles.

Over 4,000 mph.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:50 pm
Payload Fairing Jettison.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:50 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/05/2011 09:50 pm
Interesting that the camera feed dropped when the fairing jettisoned ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Mapperuo on 03/05/2011 09:50 pm
I suppose the cut to CGI just before fairing sep was planned?  :(
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:50 pm
BECO
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:51 pm
Staging. 1-2 sep.

Second stage ignition.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:51 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:51 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/05/2011 09:52 pm
Interesting that the camera feed dropped when the fairing jettisoned ;)

And it's too bad as well, that camera was tracking extremely well, and you could see the fairing quite clearly today!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 09:52 pm
Got to say it always looks like a very sexy vehicle during first stage.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 09:52 pm
good precursor for the manned flights, wonder if it wold benefit from a dual engine centaur
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: ugordan on 03/05/2011 09:53 pm
I suppose the cut to CGI just before fairing sep was planned?  :(

Same as last time. Customer requirement I believe.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: RocketEconomist327 on 03/05/2011 09:53 pm
Congratulations to ULA and the United States Air Force.  We are all #Winning today ;)

VR
RE327
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/05/2011 09:53 pm
Interesting how the exhaust flame looks like a flaming Phoenix or an angel on fire...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 09:54 pm
That was a gorgeous launch - nice slow climb into the blue sky...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/05/2011 09:54 pm
I suppose the cut to CGI just before fairing sep was planned?  :(

Same as last time. Customer requirement I believe.

Yup. It was announced as such
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Targeteer on 03/05/2011 09:54 pm
I suppose the cut to CGI just before fairing sep was planned?  :(

Same as last time. Customer requirement I believe.

A conspiracy theorist might wonder why not show something that you have already revealed? ???
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: apace on 03/05/2011 09:55 pm
Interesting how the exhaust flame looks like a flaming Phoenix or an angel on fire...

US Spysat powered by Russian engines :-)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/05/2011 09:55 pm
Tell him to use common sense and drop the conspiracy.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: apace on 03/05/2011 09:57 pm
Centaur is running quite long, which orbit is expected?! Any idea?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: ugordan on 03/05/2011 09:57 pm
All in all, a pretty picturesque first stage flight. Looking forward to recorded video.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Mapperuo on 03/05/2011 09:58 pm
I suppose the cut to CGI just before fairing sep was planned?  :(

Same as last time. Customer requirement I believe.

A conspiracy theorist might wonder why not show something that you have already revealed? ???

I can understand not revealing the exact orbit, or the missions objectives etc. But we've all seen photos of what the space craft looks like, It is a bit odd.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: ugordan on 03/05/2011 09:59 pm
I can understand not revealing the exact orbit, or the missions objectives etc. But we've all seen photos of what the space craft looks like, It is a bit odd.

Irrelevant. What customer wants, customer gets.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 10:01 pm
I suppose the cut to CGI just before fairing sep was planned?  :(

Same as last time. Customer requirement I believe.

A conspiracy theorist might wonder why not show something that you have already revealed? ???
Cause it's a secret....
On that note though, I'm kinda surprised they're showing all the way to Centaur cutoff.
Also, I'm somewhat of a noob to Atlas launches so did anyone else see something that looked like a hose hanging off the fairing during ascent? Was that just a feed line for the Centaur that didn't disconnect at the fairing at liftoff? It almost looked like it may have been venting a bit.

Centaur vent mast (I forget if it's for LO2 or LH2). Totally normal.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 10:01 pm
T+15 minutes
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 10:01 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 10:02 pm
194 miles altitude.
2,000 miles downrange.
15,400 mph
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 03/05/2011 10:02 pm
good precursor for the manned flights, wonder if it wold benefit from a dual engine centaur

A lot would depend on the final objective orbit.  DEC is good enough for LEO up to approximately ISS altitude.  SEC is what you want if you're going higher.  If OTV is a technology precursor for some kind of ASAT droid-fighter, then it needs to be able to reach GSO and that means SEC.

Also... Darn! Those ULA make this all look so very, very easy, don't they? :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 10:02 pm
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: ugordan on 03/05/2011 10:03 pm
On that note though, I'm kinda surprised they're showing all the way to Centaur cutoff.

Since we don't know the exact mass of the payload, knowing when MECO happens is useless. Notice they aren't showing instantaneous orbital parameters in the sim like they usually do.

Quote
Also, I'm somewhat of a noob to Atlas launches so did anyone else see something that looked like a hose hanging off the fairing during ascent? Was that just a feed line for the Centaur that didn't disconnect at the fairing at liftoff? It almost looked like it may have been venting a bit.

Believe that's a LH2 vent line from the Centaur. It always stays that way on Atlas V 5xx variants.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 10:04 pm
MECO 1, Centaur has been shut off, this will end ULA's coverage

Congratulations to ULA, the USAF, and everyone involved.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 10:04 pm
Ending the webcast.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 10:04 pm
Centaur MECO-1.

Webcast now ending at customer request.

Congrats to ULA, job well done!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Targeteer on 03/05/2011 10:05 pm
Could anyone guess an inclination from the video?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Lars_J on 03/05/2011 10:05 pm
A great launch, very smooth looking!!!

Too bad we didn't get live views of all those video shots displaying in the control room. The closeup of the pad/launch mount in particular would have been interesting to see at ignition.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 03/05/2011 10:05 pm
Two reusable spacecraft are now in orbit

replay from earlier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpBDk2vB1LQ
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Nick L. on 03/05/2011 10:05 pm
Believe that's a LH2 vent line from the Centaur. It always stays that way on Atlas V 5xx variants.

If I recall correctly it's the same for 4xx as well.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 03/05/2011 10:06 pm
I wonder... Would the Centaur have enough dV left to carry out a significant plane change manoeuvre? It will be easier to maintain secrecy of the orbit if you change it radically after you publicly stop-off in a parking orbit.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/05/2011 10:07 pm

Also... Darn! Those ULA make this all look so very, very easy, don't they? :)

Yup. A whole bunch of professionals.

Congrats to them on a great launch!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/05/2011 10:07 pm
On that note though, I'm kinda surprised they're showing all the way to Centaur cutoff.

Since we don't know the exact mass of the payload, knowing when MECO happens is useless. Notice they aren't showing instantaneous orbital parameters in the sim like they usually do.

X-37B is 4,990 kg, according to:
http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=16639

Of course there may be "more".

BTW, looks like she steered seriously south about 13.5 minutes in.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 10:11 pm
Congrats to all concerned! :)

United Launch Alliance Successfully Launches Second OTV Mission

 

Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla., (March 5, 2011) – A United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket successfully launched the second Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV-2) for the Air Force’s Rapid Capabilities Office (AFRCO) at 5:46 p.m. EST today from Space Launch Complex- 41.  The OTV, also known as the X-37B, supports space experimentation, risk reduction, and concept of operations development for long duration and reusable space vehicle technologies.  The first OTV mission was also successfully launched by a ULA Atlas V from Space Launch Complex-41, on Apr. 22, 2010.  It later landed at Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif., on Dec. 3.

“The ULA team is proud to have played a critical role in successfully launching both of these important missions of the Orbital Test Vehicle for the Air Force RCO,” said Jim Sponnick, ULA vice president, Mission Operations. “It took a tremendous amount of teamwork to successfully launch both vehicles in less than a year.  I am confident that the information collected by the Rapid Capabilities Office from these missions will lead to even bigger and bolder missions in the future.  Congratulations to the combined Air Force and ULA launch team and our many mission partners that made today’s successful launch possible.”

This mission was launched aboard an Atlas V 501 vehicle configuration, which includes a 5.4m diameter payload fairing. The booster for this mission was powered by the RD AMROSS RD-180 engine and the Centaur upper stage was powered by a single Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne RL-10A engine.

ULA's next launch, currently scheduled for March 11, is a mission for the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) aboard a Delta IV rocket from Space Launch Complex-37.

ULA program management, engineering, test, and mission support functions are headquartered in Denver, Colo. Manufacturing, assembly and integration operations are located at Decatur, Ala., Harlingen, Texas, San Diego, Calif., and Denver, Colo.  Launch operations are located at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla., and Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif.

For more information on the ULA joint venture, visit the ULA Web site at www.ulalaunch.com, or call the ULA Launch Hotline at 1-877-ULA-4321 (852-4321).

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: ugordan on 03/05/2011 10:11 pm
Believe that's a LH2 vent line from the Centaur. It always stays that way on Atlas V 5xx variants.

If I recall correctly it's the same for 4xx as well.

You're right, it's just less noticeable there.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: apace on 03/05/2011 10:14 pm
And the Swiss Made fairing worked ;-)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/05/2011 10:26 pm
     Cape Canaveral AFS, Fla. (March 5, 2011) -  A United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket with the Air Force’s second Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV-2) launches from its Space Launch Complex-41 launch pad at 5:46 p.m. EST today.  The OTV, also known as the X-37B, supports space experimentation, risk reduction, and concept of operations development for long duration and reusable space vehicle technologies. Photo by Pat Corkery, United Launch Alliance.

Nice:
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: jcm on 03/05/2011 11:10 pm
On that note though, I'm kinda surprised they're showing all the way to Centaur cutoff.

Since we don't know the exact mass of the payload, knowing when MECO happens is useless. Notice they aren't showing instantaneous orbital parameters in the sim like they usually do.

X-37B is 4,990 kg, according to:
http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=16639

Of course there may be "more".

BTW, looks like she steered seriously south about 13.5 minutes in.

 - Ed Kyle

The 4990 kg is clearly a spuriously precise conversion from the "11,000 pounds" so presumably accurate to only +/- ~500 lb = ~250 kg.
I would consider this fact sheet to tell us that the mass is "5000 +/- 250 kg"
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: jcm on 03/05/2011 11:12 pm
Two reusable spacecraft are now in orbit
 

Arguably one of them is no longer reusable....[ducks...]
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: JonC on 03/05/2011 11:15 pm
I'm curious if they have alternate landing sites for the X-37. Any ideas where? :)

Also, any rumors of a retrograde mission out of Vandenburg?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Lars_J on 03/05/2011 11:16 pm
One thing I find interesting on the Centaur "simulated footage" is how many smaller thrusters it has, that fire relatively frequently.

So a question - Does the Centaur engine not gimbal at all? There appears to be 12-16 smaller thrusters on the upper stage around the main engine - which seems to be more than strictly needed.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/05/2011 11:20 pm
I'm curious if they have alternate landing sites for the X-37. Any ideas where? :)

Also, any rumors of a retrograde mission out of Vandenburg?

Honestly, a polar orbit would be more interesting. In my mind it would indicate a mission that had objects beyond just testing new tech...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: ugordan on 03/05/2011 11:25 pm
So a question - Does the Centaur engine not gimbal at all? There appears to be 12-16 smaller thrusters on the upper stage around the main engine - which seems to be more than strictly needed.

Some of them are roll control thrusters and are needed during a burn. The others are probably yaw/pitch thrusters used for coast phase ACS and doing "thermal conditioning firings" during the burn.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: DARPA-86 on 03/06/2011 12:08 am
I'm curious if they have alternate landing sites for the X-37. Any ideas where? :)

Also, any rumors of a retrograde mission out of Vandenburg?

Honestly, a polar orbit would be more interesting. In my mind it would indicate a mission that had objects beyond just testing new tech...
Depends upon if the objects in the payload bay are looking down.....or looking up
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Lars_J on 03/06/2011 12:10 am
Depends upon if the objects in the payload bay are looking down.....or looking up

Since the DoD is involved, I'd say it is highly probably that payload bay is looking down.

Unless the DoD is anticipating alien activity.  ;D
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: DARPA-86 on 03/06/2011 12:17 am
The DOD has done some stranger things with our taxdollars

But just think for a minute about the advantages of observing other orbiting platforms, while on orbit yourself both from an IMINT standpoint and possibly a SIGINT capability.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Antares on 03/06/2011 01:20 am
One thing I find interesting on the Centaur "simulated footage" is how many smaller thrusters it has, that fire relatively frequently.

So a question - Does the Centaur engine not gimbal at all? There appears to be 12-16 smaller thrusters on the upper stage around the main engine - which seems to be more than strictly needed.

Good pictures for reference
http://unitedlaunchalliance.com/site/docs/publications/DeltaQualificationTestofAerojetHydrazineThrustersforUseonCentaurduringtheLROandLCROSSMissions20095481.pdf
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: bobthemonkey on 03/06/2011 02:50 am
The DOD has done some stranger things with our taxdollars

But just think for a minute about the advantages of observing other orbiting platforms, while on orbit yourself both from an IMINT standpoint and possibly a SIGINT capability.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: bobthemonkey on 03/06/2011 02:53 am
Thing is, you don't need wings to do that. X37 is less useful in that regard than ant COTS bus. Anyway GEO provides a more useful, less challenging and less obvious area for such activites. (Prowler)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: jacqmans on 03/06/2011 03:04 am
Launch !!

HR in L2 :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: jacqmans on 03/06/2011 03:19 am
After launch time for a photo. In the photo is forum member C5C6 and me.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: MKremer on 03/06/2011 04:04 am
Thing is, you don't need wings to do that. X37 is less useful in that regard than ant COTS bus. Anyway GEO provides a more useful, less challenging and less obvious area for such activites. (Prowler)

I agree. Rather than use the 37Bs for dedicated spy/sat missions, they're goldmines for replacing the current (expensive and rare) one-off technology demo/experiment satellite missions.

DoD/DARPA will be getting a bargain, budget-wise, using them for mainly that purpose:

 - multiple missions with multiple investigations for the price of a single limited satellite mission

 - the scientists/engineers/labs/departments actually get their investigative/experimental hardware back for further science/engineering data!

 - two vehicles could mean all sorts of new technology/science/demo modules could be flown every year (and for long durations)

 - plus, if each vehicle can be flown at least once per year for an 8-9 month mission, and each could be flow within 6-8 months of each other, that could mean up to dozens of DARPA/Air Force/DoD space experiments/demos/material investigations could be done for less than the cost of a single satellite mission every several years (and they get their stuff back!)

This is too good an opportunity to pass up (both budget-wise and for tech advancement), as opposed to suddenly assign the vehicles for single-purpose missions with dubious results.
The Air Force would have no problem requesting orders for additional 37B-ish vehicles for more dedicated missions to be built right away (Skunk Works-style) if they find an advantageous need.

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/06/2011 05:37 am
I agree. Rather than use the 37Bs for dedicated spy/sat missions, they're goldmines for replacing the current (expensive and rare) one-off technology demo/experiment satellite missions.

If that is the case, there goes a good chunk of the small sat launcher market...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: GClark on 03/06/2011 05:50 am
That's been tanking ever since DOD moved their smallsats to the Minotaurs & Rokot/Dnepr came on the market.

Orbital Sciences is on record that if Pegasus orders don't pick, they'll discontinue it.  SpaceX has shelved the Falcon 1e for now.  It's just more cost effective to launch them in bunches on a med than a dedicated launch on a small.

JMNSHO, of course...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 03/06/2011 07:50 am
One thing I find interesting on the Centaur "simulated footage" is how many smaller thrusters it has, that fire relatively frequently.

So a question - Does the Centaur engine not gimbal at all? There appears to be 12-16 smaller thrusters on the upper stage around the main engine - which seems to be more than strictly needed.

The RL-10A-4 can gimbal. In fact, during the first few seconds of the Centaur's powered flight, you see a very sharp pitch down and then pitch up as it corrects its flight path.  The other thrusters are mostly RCS motors for positioning during non-powered flight and roll control.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: lucspace on 03/06/2011 10:20 am
Just checking... are we really seeing the second flight unit in the recent pictures at http://www.spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av026/preflight/?

The second vehicle in this photo lacks the grey area in its tps...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: 8900 on 03/06/2011 01:06 pm
Now the Russians have banned the photo op of ISS with everything docked, can X-37B maneuver to somewhere near ISS and take photos?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/06/2011 01:17 pm
The DOD has done some stranger things with our taxdollars

But just think for a minute about the advantages of observing other orbiting platforms, while on orbit yourself both from an IMINT standpoint and possibly a SIGINT capability.

It takes less than a minute to see that the orbit is bad for both tasks.

Plus the payload on the vehicle is only 500 lbs.

And the vehicle shape is bad for signint
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/06/2011 01:26 pm
Just checking... are we really seeing the second flight unit in the recent pictures at http://www.spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av026/preflight/?

The second vehicle in this photo lacks the grey area in its tps...


There are three vehicles.  One is only for landing tests
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/06/2011 01:27 pm
Now the Russians have banned the photo op of ISS with everything docked, can X-37B maneuver to somewhere near ISS and take photos?

It is in the wrong orbit.  And who is to say there is a camera on board
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: hoku on 03/06/2011 01:57 pm
...
I agree. Rather than use the 37Bs for dedicated spy/sat missions, they're goldmines for replacing the current (expensive and rare) one-off technology demo/experiment satellite missions.

DoD/DARPA will be getting a bargain, budget-wise, using them for mainly that purpose:
...
This is too good an opportunity to pass up (both budget-wise and for tech advancement), as opposed to suddenly assign the vehicles for single-purpose missions with dubious results.
The Air Force would have no problem requesting orders for additional 37B-ish vehicles for more dedicated missions to be built right away (Skunk Works-style) if they find an advantageous need.
Remember that the new contract between AF/NRO and ULA increases Atlas V launch costs substantially (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23619.0 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23619.0))
Unless they figure out a safe way (crosswinds etc) to launch OTVs on a Delta-2 equivalent (w/o fairing?), I doubt that we will see many (if any) future launches.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: DARPA-86 on 03/06/2011 03:36 pm
The DOD has done some stranger things with our taxdollars

But just think for a minute about the advantages of observing other orbiting platforms, while on orbit yourself both from an IMINT standpoint and possibly a SIGINT capability.

It takes less than a minute to see that the orbit is bad for both tasks.

Plus the payload on the vehicle is only 500 lbs.

And the vehicle shape is bad for signint
Wow, just my second post and Jim gave me three whole sentences - over thirty words to tell me I am wrong.

I feel blessed and honored!  (Helps me to answer my original question, Is the payload bay facing up or down, or a variation thereof)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/06/2011 03:41 pm
The DOD has done some stranger things with our taxdollars

But just think for a minute about the advantages of observing other orbiting platforms, while on orbit yourself both from an IMINT standpoint and possibly a SIGINT capability.

It takes less than a minute to see that the orbit is bad for both tasks.

Plus the payload on the vehicle is only 500 lbs.

And the vehicle shape is bad for signint
Wow, just my second post and Jim gave me three whole sentences - over thirty words to tell me I am wrong.

I feel blessed and honored!  (Helps me to answer my original question, Is the payload bay facing up or down, or a variation thereof)

It is also worth remembering that the orbits from the first flight had repeating ground tracks. Each time it maneuvered to a lower orbit, it ended up in an orbit with a repeating ground track. Very useful if looking at the same spot on the ground, not very useful if you are looking up.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: DARPA-86 on 03/06/2011 03:47 pm
Thanks, this also helps to answer another of my questions does this assest serve a Strategic customer - or a Operational/Tactical level.

Have several friends currently, and a family member in the near future that have "boots on the ground" in a certain Area of Operations/Area of Influence - they need all the help they can get.  Am personally tired of fighting with one arm tied behind one's back.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/06/2011 03:53 pm
Thanks, this also helps to answer another of my questions does this assest serve a Strategic customer - or a Operational/Tactical level.

Have several friends currently, and a family member in the near future that have "boots on the ground" in a certain Area of Operations/Area of Influence - they need all the help they can get.  Am personally tired of fighting with one arm tied behind one's back.

Probably neither, it is more likely R&D and not direct operations support.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: DARPA-86 on 03/06/2011 04:04 pm
Thanks, this also helps to answer another of my questions does this assest serve a Strategic customer - or a Operational/Tactical level.

Have several friends currently, and a family member in the near future that have "boots on the ground" in a certain Area of Operations/Area of Influence - they need all the help they can get.  Am personally tired of fighting with one arm tied behind one's back.

Probably neither, it is more likely R&D and not direct operations support.
Understand primary mission, in particular as publicly reported; am interested in "secondary" missions and follow on capabilities.  Also relevance as new techniques and technologies are demonstrated and how they could be made use of by NASA - let someone else eat the R & D costs for a change.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/06/2011 04:17 pm
Understand primary mission, in particular as publicly reported; am interested in "secondary" missions and follow on capabilities.  Also relevance as new techniques and technologies are demonstrated and how they could be made use of by NASA - let someone else eat the R & D costs for a change.

One would have to know what hardware  is actually being tested.  As for sensors, NASA has a firm grip on that for planetary exploration.  As for the vehicle itself, NASA has little use since it gave up the vehicle in the first place.  There might be some commercial spin offs in the materials.

There might not be anymore followon missions of these vehicles.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Apollo-phill on 03/06/2011 06:26 pm
Any guesses as to inclination ?

Is it worth my attempting visual viewing for X37B OTV-2 from UK (approx 52-53 deg north latitude) - assuming I could be so lucky -  or is it likely to be another 40 degree inclination orbit ?


Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: grakenverb on 03/06/2011 07:29 pm
Does anyone know if the solar array is returned to earth with the craft, or is it jettisoned prior to de-orbit?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Skylab on 03/06/2011 08:04 pm
It's not just up there to do the photo op of ISS that the Russians refused, it it?  ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: vt_hokie on 03/06/2011 08:31 pm
It's not just up there to do the photo op of ISS that the Russians refused, it it?  ;)

Heh, I wish!  :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Walter S on 03/06/2011 11:44 pm
Here are three shots from yesterdays launch. I viewed from over near Playalinda Beach. Was going to watch from the beach but the haze was terrible.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/07/2011 12:58 am
Any guesses as to inclination ?

Is it worth my attempting visual viewing for X37B OTV-2 from UK (approx 52-53 deg north latitude) - assuming I could be so lucky -  or is it likely to be another 40 degree inclination orbit ?


When found, it will most likely be posted on SeeSat-L ( http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Mar-2011/index.html ) first.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Antares on 03/07/2011 03:12 am
Walter, you could sell that 2nd one to ULA.  Just perfect with the Atlas logo front and center.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Blackstar on 03/07/2011 04:47 am
Understand primary mission, in particular as publicly reported; am interested in "secondary" missions and follow on capabilities.  Also relevance as new techniques and technologies are demonstrated and how they could be made use of by NASA - let someone else eat the R & D costs for a change.

One would have to know what hardware  is actually being tested.  As for sensors, NASA has a firm grip on that for planetary exploration.  As for the vehicle itself, NASA has little use since it gave up the vehicle in the first place.  There might be some commercial spin offs in the materials.

There might not be anymore followon missions of these vehicles.

Yup.  Here's the primary question that has to be answered about the X-37B: why does it have wings?

Put another way: lots of people (most of whom know very little about military space) have proposed lots of missions that this thing might be doing.  But all of those possible missions, from inspection to refueling to imaging to whatever, can be done with a disposable vehicle that is not carrying extra mass (wings) that is unnecessary for these missions.  For instance, if you wanted to use this to refuel satellites, you could do that with a spacecraft that trades the mass of the wings and reusability for more fuel to pump into the satellites.  Is there some aspect of the mission of the X-37B that requires reusability?  And forget rapid response--it requires an Atlas V, which cannot be built, or called up, in a short period of time.  Plus it's expensive.

The converse of this is that as a test platform, it is pretty expensive.  That's a lot of money to spend just to test some technologies that don't seem to have clear end users.

It's a puzzler.  I keep waiting for a eureeka moment when the X-37B suddenly makes sense, but I haven't had it yet.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: vt_hokie on 03/07/2011 04:56 am
I've wondered if perhaps this flight has it retrieving something deployed by the first X-37B...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: bobthemonkey on 03/07/2011 06:48 am
Understand primary mission, in particular as publicly reported; am interested in "secondary" missions and follow on capabilities.  Also relevance as new techniques and technologies are demonstrated and how they could be made use of by NASA - let someone else eat the R & D costs for a change.

One would have to know what hardware  is actually being tested.  As for sensors, NASA has a firm grip on that for planetary exploration.  As for the vehicle itself, NASA has little use since it gave up the vehicle in the first place.  There might be some commercial spin offs in the materials.

There might not be anymore followon missions of these vehicles.

Yup.  Here's the primary question that has to be answered about the X-37B: why does it have wings?

Put another way: lots of people (most of whom know very little about military space) have proposed lots of missions that this thing might be doing.  But all of those possible missions, from inspection to refueling to imaging to whatever, can be done with a disposable vehicle that is not carrying extra mass (wings) that is unnecessary for these missions.  For instance, if you wanted to use this to refuel satellites, you could do that with a spacecraft that trades the mass of the wings and reusability for more fuel to pump into the satellites.  Is there some aspect of the mission of the X-37B that requires reusability?  And forget rapid response--it requires an Atlas V, which cannot be built, or called up, in a short period of time.  Plus it's expensive.

The converse of this is that as a test platform, it is pretty expensive.  That's a lot of money to spend just to test some technologies that don't seem to have clear end users.

It's a puzzler.  I keep waiting for a eureeka moment when the X-37B suddenly makes sense, but I haven't had it yet.

Do we have budget figures for the programme? Is it possible that the AF picked up the thing so cheap (hardware ready to fligh) as to outweigh the increased cost imposed by the configuration.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Archibald on 03/07/2011 07:52 am
Understand primary mission, in particular as publicly reported; am interested in "secondary" missions and follow on capabilities.  Also relevance as new techniques and technologies are demonstrated and how they could be made use of by NASA - let someone else eat the R & D costs for a change.

One would have to know what hardware  is actually being tested.  As for sensors, NASA has a firm grip on that for planetary exploration.  As for the vehicle itself, NASA has little use since it gave up the vehicle in the first place.  There might be some commercial spin offs in the materials.

There might not be anymore followon missions of these vehicles.

Yup.  Here's the primary question that has to be answered about the X-37B: why does it have wings?

Put another way: lots of people (most of whom know very little about military space) have proposed lots of missions that this thing might be doing.  But all of those possible missions, from inspection to refueling to imaging to whatever, can be done with a disposable vehicle that is not carrying extra mass (wings) that is unnecessary for these missions.  For instance, if you wanted to use this to refuel satellites, you could do that with a spacecraft that trades the mass of the wings and reusability for more fuel to pump into the satellites.  Is there some aspect of the mission of the X-37B that requires reusability?  And forget rapid response--it requires an Atlas V, which cannot be built, or called up, in a short period of time.  Plus it's expensive.

The converse of this is that as a test platform, it is pretty expensive.  That's a lot of money to spend just to test some technologies that don't seem to have clear end users.

It's a puzzler.  I keep waiting for a eureeka moment when the X-37B suddenly makes sense, but I haven't had it yet.

Do you mean, something like the old Agena upper stage Lockheed declined in many roles over the years ?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: pippin on 03/07/2011 07:56 am
Well, there is one thing I can imagine that does make sense and it is to be a technology testbed for long-range, hypersonic UAVs.

That kind of a vehicle would probably be launched on a rocket launcher, would have to maneuver through space for part of it's trip and it would probably use a winged re-entry configuration, probably with the capability of powered gliding at high speeds after re-entry.

Pretty much everything except the powered glide after reentry is stuff you can test with the X-37B. The UAV would not go orbital, but that gives it a much shorter flight and hence fewer test capabilities.

I find that to fit nicely with the other hypersonic test vehicles. OK, it has a different shape but then they didn't design the shape, NASA did and at least you can test stuff like control authority, autonomous navigation and reaction and cross range capabilities.

Remember that you still can't really _test_ hypersonic flight on the ground (as in a wind tunnel) and never trust your computer simulation until you've calibrated it with real data!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Sparky on 03/07/2011 08:00 am
Understand primary mission, in particular as publicly reported; am interested in "secondary" missions and follow on capabilities.  Also relevance as new techniques and technologies are demonstrated and how they could be made use of by NASA - let someone else eat the R & D costs for a change.

One would have to know what hardware  is actually being tested.  As for sensors, NASA has a firm grip on that for planetary exploration.  As for the vehicle itself, NASA has little use since it gave up the vehicle in the first place.  There might be some commercial spin offs in the materials.

There might not be anymore followon missions of these vehicles.

Yup.  Here's the primary question that has to be answered about the X-37B: why does it have wings?

Put another way: lots of people (most of whom know very little about military space) have proposed lots of missions that this thing might be doing.  But all of those possible missions, from inspection to refueling to imaging to whatever, can be done with a disposable vehicle that is not carrying extra mass (wings) that is unnecessary for these missions.  For instance, if you wanted to use this to refuel satellites, you could do that with a spacecraft that trades the mass of the wings and reusability for more fuel to pump into the satellites.  Is there some aspect of the mission of the X-37B that requires reusability?  And forget rapid response--it requires an Atlas V, which cannot be built, or called up, in a short period of time.  Plus it's expensive.

The converse of this is that as a test platform, it is pretty expensive.  That's a lot of money to spend just to test some technologies that don't seem to have clear end users.

It's a puzzler.  I keep waiting for a eureeka moment when the X-37B suddenly makes sense, but I haven't had it yet.

Wild guess here, but I would venture that the only logical purpose of the X-37B is satellite retrieval. As for why, that depends on who's satelites we're retrieving.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/07/2011 11:01 am

Wild guess here, but I would venture that the only logical purpose of the X-37B is satellite retrieval. As for why, that depends on who's satelites we're retrieving.

It can only carry 500 lbs.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/07/2011 12:38 pm

It can only carry 500 lbs.

Btw. where does this limit come from? reentry CG issues? Landing gear issues? structural issues? 500 lbs looked good on a powerpoint?

I am curious about that.

As for a mission, sounds like what ever it is flying they want it or part of  it back. It can not be that expensive to justify this kind of reuse, so they must want it back for inspect, or the data is in a format that can not be transmitted easily to the ground (be it for bandwidth or something else).

My pet theory which Blackstar considers with very good reasons 100% crap is they are reflying an old film mapping camera, maybe the KH-9 camera? Though if they where doing that, they should be flying it out of Vandenberg.

Other options, trying to find a hyper spectral camera design that works, trying different filters, ect. The last one did fly in a configuration that had repeating ground paths, aka an imaging mission.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kkattula on 03/07/2011 01:05 pm
My guess is the military have a requirement for urgent LEO overflight of geographical locations when there is no on-orbit asset with the right sensors available in the necessary time-frame. Or the propellant cost to an existing asset is excessive.

It also has a surprise factor since the OpFor usually know the orbital characteristics of existing assets. The wings probably allow a greater cross-range to available recovery sites.

Tie it in with a rapid launch reusable booster, and they can put eyes on anyone at almost anytime for relatively low cost.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 03/07/2011 01:27 pm
Now how about this: I am thinking that what if the USAF flew with an empty payload bay? The X-37, after all, did not originate from the Air Force, and they might have only agreed to take over the project because it can be used to probe the characteristics of upper atmospheric flight (maybe useful for ICBMs), the usefulness and skills required for operating a RLV, and develop a next generation common spacecraft bus for different operations (something like a next-generation winged Agena bus). Hmm...that doesn't sound convincing... ???
Then how about this: they take over and continued this project because it could please some local politicians and certain Air Force officals by offering some work (and spending money) in their districts, while giving an impression of developing some sort of "effective and advanced hypersonic space bomber" to increase the notional capability of the US military to the public, politicians and other countries, just like the reason so many space enthusiasts of the "cult of gradual space exploration" given for the need of the SLS project. Given that the US military did have other projects that are anything but useful (X-20, MOL, YAL-1, the "Star Wars" project etc.), I wonder if this is the reason for the existance of the X-37. So, my hypothesis is that the payload bay might only carry some kind of unimportant payloads (sensors used for only recording the performance of the spacecraft? fuel for extended flight? or even nothing? ::)).
JMHO, of course. Please shoot down my idea as needed. ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/07/2011 01:30 pm
JMHO, of course. Please shoot down my idea as needed. ;)

You don't need a 200+ day mission to probe the upper atmosphere and where only worried about hypersonic flight ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/07/2011 01:33 pm

1.  Now how about this: I am thinking that what if the USAF flew with an empty payload bay? The X-37, after all, did not originate from the Air Force, and they might have only agreed to take over the project because it can be used to probe the characteristics of upper atmospheric flight (maybe useful for ICBMs),

2. the usefulness and skills required for operating a RLV, and

3.develop a next generation common spacecraft bus for different operations (something like a next-generation winged Agena bus).

1.  Why a 270 day mission then?
2.  It is not an RLV, just a returnable spacecraft,  Again 270 day mission?
3.  There are plenty of buses out there,  Agena was more of an upperstage than just a bus.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 03/07/2011 01:52 pm

1.  Now how about this: I am thinking that what if the USAF flew with an empty payload bay? The X-37, after all, did not originate from the Air Force, and they might have only agreed to take over the project because it can be used to probe the characteristics of upper atmospheric flight (maybe useful for ICBMs),

2. the usefulness and skills required for operating a RLV, and

3.develop a next generation common spacecraft bus for different operations (something like a next-generation winged Agena bus).

1.  Why a 270 day mission then?
2.  It is not an RLV, just a returnable spacecraft,  Again 270 day mission?
3.  There are plenty of buses out there,  Agena was more of an upperstage than just a bus.

1. Good question. That's why I dropped my first idea as fast as I typed it and thought of the second idea. After all, what precious payloads that weights less than half a (metric) tonne costs so much that it warrents a winged ROV to fly it to a mid-inclination LEO? Given that I am only a college student, my ideas might only worth an opportunity of brainstorming stimulation. ;)
2. My bad. I meant to write RSV (reusable space vehicle). Also see point 1 above.
3. I saw some sources on the web that states that the X-37 have a delta-v capacity of 3.1 km/s , which is close enough for a small upper stage. Or is that incorrect?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/07/2011 02:34 pm
This could merely be another test flight of an X-37B.  ;)

As for operational use, assuming there are any operational uses, it seems to me that the payload return capability and the flight duration could be used for a variety of things.  Space flight qualification of hardware is one possibility.  Some type of experiment that produces or tests or collects something in orbit is another possibility. 

Then again, the 90 minute launch window intervals seemed, to me, to imply phasing into another object's orbit.  Does anyone have another explanation for those windows?

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/07/2011 02:59 pm

Then again, the 90 minute launch window intervals seemed, to me, to imply phasing into another object's orbit.  Does anyone have another explanation for those windows?

 - Ed Kyle

Hmmm... ed,  reminds of a question posted on SeeSat-L

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Mar-2011/0084.html

Quote
Interesting question (based on the clues available from the four launch
windows over the past 25 hours) - which of the KH-11s has been tasked
with imaging the heat shield?

Raises an interesting question, instead of being imaged by a KH-11, imaging the the same target as a KH-11 for new sensor eval and comparison would make sense. Be interesting to model the know orbits of the last X-37 mission orbits and the know KH-11 orbits over the same period and see if such passes exist.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: agman25 on 03/07/2011 03:16 pm
IMO the question about the X37B is why the wings. A dragon has a downmass capability of 6000 lbs compared to 500 lbs of the X37B. I am guessing that the wings and landing gear make up the difference. If you only needed to retrieve experimental payloads, why not go for a simpler capsule.  What do wings get you, crossrange, lower g's on reentry and landing ?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/07/2011 03:30 pm
The up mass for an X-37 is also 500 lbs
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/07/2011 04:17 pm
I'll throw in an idea. If it's the same as shuttle (to be used as an orbital TEST vehicle) then they got it at a good price, so they can apply all the lessons learned into the development of an even bigger 'shuttle' some day - maybe somewhere between STS and X-37B.

It's a thought...

The DoD may not have the money to develop this even further (for now), so the lessons learned on metallic TPS & other payload bay materials & sensors might just be a returnable proving ground that fit the bill just nicely in the time being.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Sparky on 03/07/2011 04:29 pm
The up mass for an X-37 is also 500 lbs

Another dumb thought here:
500lbs is about the weight of a typical (smallish) nuclear warhead.
Say we had a DOD sat carrying nukes that was launched during the cold war to give us second strike capability against the USSR.
Now suppose that satellite is either in a degrading orbit, or is beginning to lose attitude/comms/power, etc, and is now seen by the military as a safety concern.

Now I know that this is starting to sound a bit tin-foil-hat like, but since we're just guessing anyway, why not?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: The-Hammer on 03/07/2011 04:33 pm
Only if they build the thing big enough to carry Clint Eastwood, Tommy Lee Jones, Donald Sutherland and James Garner.

:)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: punder on 03/07/2011 06:28 pm
Pardon me if this has already been asked/answered, but what is the thin doohicky sticking out from the middle of the payload fairing?  Camera mast?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Blackstar on 03/07/2011 06:39 pm
Do we have budget figures for the programme? Is it possible that the AF picked up the thing so cheap (hardware ready to fligh) as to outweigh the increased cost imposed by the configuration.

Nope, the budget is classified.  But we do know that a bare bones Atlas V starts in the $130 million range.  And they've used two of them so far.  That's a lot of bank for 270 days of operations.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Antares on 03/07/2011 06:41 pm
Pardon me if this has already been asked/answered, but what is the thin doohicky sticking out from the middle of the payload fairing?  Camera mast?

GH2 vent fin.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Antares on 03/07/2011 06:42 pm
Then again, the 90 minute launch window intervals seemed, to me, to imply phasing into another object's orbit.  Does anyone have another explanation for those windows?

Glad someone finally raised this point.  Was the first OTV launch similarly constrained?

Wings are either for cross-range or to g-limit entry.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/07/2011 06:59 pm
Wings are either for cross-range or to g-limit entry.

Or bringing everything back without dropping parts, part of the reason corona vehicles re-entered over water was to keep the number of parts shed on reentry from landing on land.

Now I will make one point, a corona like capsule only has one point (out the back ) from which to deploy solar panels, cooling, and what ever the secret payload is. A bay like that on the X-37 gives more flexibility with that, and in the platform you have the ability to maintain and point the 500 lbs payload and then reuse it. One of the problems with these small path finder sats is each time you build one you have to build and tailor the spacecraft bus for each flight.

Maybe it is cheaper and lower risk to have a proven bus that you can mount different research projects into. Time will tell if this is true, remember SBSS cost over $800 million for a "Small Sat" that launched on a Minotaur IV. If they can remove the cost of a new bus and the related engineering that goes with it each flight, maybe it is cheaper to buy an Atlas v501 for each test.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kraisee on 03/07/2011 07:05 pm
IMO the question about the X37B is why the wings. A dragon has a downmass capability of 6000 lbs compared to 500 lbs of the X37B. I am guessing that the wings and landing gear make up the difference. If you only needed to retrieve experimental payloads, why not go for a simpler capsule.  What do wings get you, crossrange, lower g's on reentry and landing ?

Pure speculation on my part, but it could be for the same reason as DoD wanted for Shuttle originally -- to allow Once Around missions from Polar.

Launch from VAFB with little, if any, warning.   The wings then provide the necessary crossrange to allow the vehicle to land back on the California coast after just one orbit.   The ground target wouldn't know there is a camera in the sky until its already overhead.

Of course, the X-37 probably isn't intended to be a fully operational capability -- its more likely to be just a testbed for a more capable vehicle that will follow later.

Ross.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: sdsds on 03/07/2011 08:23 pm
I bet the wings were a "feature of opportunity," i.e. they wanted a return payload capability and the vehicle available had wings rather than parachutes.  Also the payload bay doors allow them to temporarily deploy the payload outside the vehicle.

My theory on the payload, and why it must be returned to Earth?  It's an aerogel, designed to capture the pixie-dust particles left behind by UFOs as they pass through LEO.  My personal hope is that ground analysis of those particles will allow us to develop our own pixie-dust propulsion systems.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: ugordan on 03/07/2011 10:18 pm
Launch highlights video: http://www.ulalaunch.com/site/Video/videos/AV/av_otv2_lh.wmv

Surprisingly, shows fairing and CFLR sep clearly.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Proponent on 03/08/2011 03:31 am
Pure speculation on my part, but it could be for the same reason as DoD wanted for Shuttle originally -- to allow Once Around missions from Polar.

But DoD already has that capability with its expendables.  And why 270-day missions?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: sdsds on 03/08/2011 03:59 am
Launch highlights video: http://www.ulalaunch.com/site/Video/videos/AV/av_otv2_lh.wmv

Great video!

Quote
Surprisingly, shows fairing and CFLR sep clearly.

But from that angle there was no way to visually ascertain whether OTV2 was the only payload under the fairing.  For OTV1 there were photos available clearly showing what was where. (http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100413-f-0000x-101.jpg)  Were similar photos provided for OTV2?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Antares on 03/08/2011 12:49 pm
From this morning's articles:
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2011/03/solar-stowaways-give-us-spacep.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 03/08/2011 01:20 pm
From this morning's articles:
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2011/03/solar-stowaways-give-us-spacep.html

It wouldn't surprise me if the solar arrays described in this article are the only payload being carried by the X-37.  If we accept that this mission is entirely a technology test flight then the testing of an 'agile' solar array, which might possibly lead to conformal during launch, steerable during flight arrays becoming standard on NRO and DoD satellites, could be an objective in itself for the mission.


[edit]
D'oh! Fixed typos
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/08/2011 01:26 pm
which might possibly lead to conformal during launch, steerable during flight arrays becoming standard on NRO and DoD satellites, could be an objective in itself for the mission.


Those already exist in other forms.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/08/2011 01:59 pm

which might possibly lead to conformal during launch, steerable during flight arrays becoming standard on NRO and DoD satellites, could be an objective in itself for the mission.


Does not explain the orbit or the launch constraints...

btw. last I checked on seasat-l, it has not been found "yet".
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Shams on 03/08/2011 04:29 pm
Could anyone upload the catalog of OTV-2 (PDF)?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 03/08/2011 04:31 pm
Do you mean the tracking information? As noted in the post right before you, it's not been found.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: yg1968 on 03/08/2011 04:45 pm
Discussions of a third flight:
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av026/110307otv3/index.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: DARPA-86 on 03/08/2011 09:44 pm
Do we have budget figures for the programme? Is it possible that the AF picked up the thing so cheap (hardware ready to fligh) as to outweigh the increased cost imposed by the configuration.

Nope, the budget is classified.  But we do know that a bare bones Atlas V starts in the $130 million range.  And they've used two of them so far.  That's a lot of bank for 270 days of operations.
Before the project went "Black" NASA & Boeing (with a little USAF $) put nearly $ 200 million into this between '99 & '02.  In FY 03 & 04 NASA paid Boeing an additional $ 300 million for a total of half a billion.  Another federal agency took it over for '05 & '06 to develope the test article - which I believe conducted six atmospheric drop tests.  It would be fairly safe to assume nearly a billion dollars was spent on this before the Air Force began budgeting this under their wing in FY'07 - to bring forth two (possibly more) production models that actually fly.  This plus the aforementioned Atlas launch costs.

Personally I think the X-37 is one of the most exicting things to happen in space in the last ten years; and it may serve as a model for how things are going to have to happen for others in the future.  One federal agency is going to have to build on the work of another - rather than reinventing (or spinning your) wheel, and going nowhere for five to ten years.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/09/2011 01:12 am
  Another federal agency took it over for '05 & '06 to develope the test article - which I believe conducted six atmospheric drop tests.

This was part of the NASA costs and USAF costs.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 03/09/2011 02:30 am
Then again, the 90 minute launch window intervals seemed, to me, to imply phasing into another object's orbit.  Does anyone have another explanation for those windows?

Glad someone finally raised this point.  Was the first OTV launch similarly constrained?

The first launch had a 9 minute window, and I think that Atlas hit it on the first try.

I've been thinking about LEO satellites in 40 deg inclination orbits.  There aren't many.  You won't find, for example, Russian satellites there.  Traditionally, LEO x 40 deg has been an "experimental" orbit.  STS-1, 2, and 3 flew into 40 deg orbits, as did X-37B OTV-1.  TacSats 2 and 3 are there, as is, or was, that most interesting craft XSS-10 (along with its famously-photographed Delta upper stage http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/images/story67a.jpg). 
NASA's SORCE is also in a 640 km x 40 deg orbit. 

My guess is that OTV-1 went there for the same reasons as STS-1, 2, 3.  Tracking coverage and landing opportunities.  I expect that an "operational" X-37B would go into a different inclination.  So, where is OTV-2?

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/09/2011 02:58 am
look at the SLS series of Spacelabs and STS-107.  Also Bigelows propose orbits.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/09/2011 08:43 pm
Found!

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Mar-2011/0180.html

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Mar-2011/0187.html

higher inclination, lower orbit.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 03/10/2011 02:03 pm
Found!

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Mar-2011/0180.html

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Mar-2011/0187.html

For someone (like me) who can't read orbital tracking notation, could someone please translate that into a degree angle? Thanks.

Quote
higher inclination, lower orbit.

Not surprising though.  IIRC, someone noted that the Centaur took a sharp turn soon after ignition, so energy having been expended on plane change rather than raising altitude is to be expected.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/10/2011 02:23 pm
43 degrees
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: JonC on 03/15/2011 12:08 pm
It is interesting that the new article on Discovery's deservicing plan notes that one of the OPFs is rumored to be used for an X-37B. Are they planning to use the SLF for X-37B landings?

Maybe the USAF is eventually looking to have one ship based at Vandenburg for polar operations and one at Cape Canaveral for equatorial operations?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Danderman on 03/16/2011 01:34 am
Discussions of a third flight:
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av026/110307otv3/index.html

"They" need a cheaper rocket, but since "they" are Boeing/Lockheed, its going to be an EELV.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Comga on 03/16/2011 02:12 am
Launch highlights video: http://www.ulalaunch.com/site/Video/videos/AV/av_otv2_lh.wmv (http://www.ulalaunch.com/site/Video/videos/AV/av_otv2_lh.wmv)

Surprisingly, shows fairing and CFLR sep clearly.

Fantastic!

That's an awfully slow climb off the pad.  What's the T/W?  1.2?  Not like my favorite, the AV-551.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 03/29/2011 10:30 pm
Looks like someone caught it:

http://wwww.space.com/11240-video-secret-x37b-space-plane-skywatchers.html

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/30/2011 01:29 am
Looks like someone caught it:

http://wwww.space.com/11240-video-secret-x37b-space-plane-skywatchers.html



Seasat has quite a busy thread on it: http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Mar-2011/0238.html

Last posted update from the 3/28 http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Mar-2011/0354.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 04/11/2011 01:19 pm
Interesting discussions on Seesat right now. Ted Molczan failed to spot it during a predicted pass, but others did.

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Apr-2011/0097.html
http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Apr-2011/0103.html
http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Apr-2011/0110.html
http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Apr-2011/0115.html

So are they possibly testing masking tech this flight?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 07/25/2011 03:03 am
Just saw it right where heavens-above said it would be at mag. 1.8. Nice bright pass, and just as it disappeared into the shadow Cosmos 2428 appeared at a right angle to it's flight path heading north. Very Surreal, oh and the X-37b really moves.

Over the next few days, the northeast looks to be set for some nice bright passes .
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 09/28/2011 05:04 am
Now that the launch hype is done can the x37B still be seen?
 
 
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 09/28/2011 02:42 pm
Heavens-above still lists it ( http://heavens-above.com/PassSummary.aspx?satid=37375&lat=0&lng=0&loc=Unspecified&alt=0&tz=CET ) and Kevin Fetter on the SeeSat list posted observations on Sept. 17th ( http://satobs.org/seesat/Sep-2011/0157.html ).
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: yg1968 on 10/03/2011 06:07 pm
Update on the second X-37b mission:
http://www.space.com/13156-secret-x37b-space-plane-longer-mission.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 10/03/2011 07:37 pm
Update on the second X-37b mission:
http://www.space.com/13156-secret-x37b-space-plane-longer-mission.html

interesting info.....

has anyone been keeping track for both missions?

what has been the highest orbit of the x37b?

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: lucspace on 10/06/2011 04:57 pm
Now this is an interesting development: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=space&id=news/asd/2011/10/06/01.xml&headline=Boeing%20Studies%20X-37B%20Evolved%20Crew%20Derivative

It would be nice to see a crew vehicle landing on a runway again!

Just recently I realized that X-37 was just the third type of vehicle to return from space on wheels...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 10/06/2011 05:29 pm
Quote
and assuming it has not already been covertly recovered, is expected to remain in space until at least mid-October.

Okay I saw that and had to stop reading right there... Considering how visible passes are, I am sure someone would have noticed it missing.

(Though to pour some conspiracy into that, the last reported sighting on SeeSat was Sept. 17th) 
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 10/06/2011 05:33 pm
Just recently I realized that X-37 was just the third type of vehicle to return from space on wheels...

Three? Not four (X-15, Shuttle, Space Ship 1, and X-37)?

Or did you realize that the X-15 landed on skids and adjust your count?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Olaf on 10/06/2011 05:38 pm
Just recently I realized that X-37 was just the third type of vehicle to return from space on wheels...

Three? Not four (X-15, Shuttle, Space Ship 1, and X-37)?

Or did you realize that the X-15 landed on skids and adjust your count?
What΄s about Buran?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Alpha Control on 10/06/2011 05:59 pm
Now this is an interesting development: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=space&id=news/asd/2011/10/06/01.xml&headline=Boeing%20Studies%20X-37B%20Evolved%20Crew%20Derivative

It would be nice to see a crew vehicle landing on a runway again!

Just recently I realized that X-37 was just the third type of vehicle to return from space on wheels...

Yes, I just read that AvWeek article. Very interesting indeed! Wonder if Boeing would intend to fund Phase2/Phase3 internally, or if they'll seek to compete this idea for CC-DEV?

Even using the just current vehicles, a demonstration "approach and back away" flight to the ISS would be of great value in showing if the X-37B can meet the stringent manuevering requirements for the ISS.

The article mentions that the X-37 can currently take certain large ORUs to the ISS if desired. How would these extracted? The X-37 can't dock, which means it would be free-floating. That would make SSRMS extraction risky because any forces imparted to the X-37 by the arm could cause the vehicle to drift. You certainly don't want that to happen.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jason1701 on 10/06/2011 06:15 pm
Just recently I realized that X-37 was just the third type of vehicle to return from space on wheels...

Three? Not four (X-15, Shuttle, Space Ship 1, and X-37)?

Or did you realize that the X-15 landed on skids and adjust your count?
What΄s about Buran?

... somehow, people never do seem to count Buran ...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 10/06/2011 06:21 pm
... somehow, people never do seem to count Buran ...
I blame my unacceptable memory lapse on my Vodka consumption...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Alpha Control on 10/06/2011 06:28 pm
... somehow, people never do seem to count Buran ...
[/quote]

That makes 5 vehicles. And since the landing gear type varies among vehicles (with SS1 using both wheels and skid), maybe we could broaden the term to "deployable ground-contact devices". :)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 10/06/2011 06:28 pm

Yes, I just read that AvWeek article. Very interesting indeed! Wonder if Boeing would intend to fund Phase2/Phase3 internally, or if they'll seek to compete this idea for CC-DEV?


No, It is not going to compete against Boeing CST-100
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Alpha Control on 10/06/2011 06:35 pm

Yes, I just read that AvWeek article. Very interesting indeed! Wonder if Boeing would intend to fund Phase2/Phase3 internally, or if they'll seek to compete this idea for CC-DEV?


No, It is not going to compete against Boeing CST-100

Thanks Jim. So does that leave only the internal funding option? Or might they go for external commercial investors?  I'm just trying to see how they would justify the cost.

The article leaves a lot out, such as what vehicle would launch the obviously larger and heavier Phase2/Phase 3 versions. And what PLF could they fit inside of?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 10/06/2011 07:04 pm

Yes, I just read that AvWeek article. Very interesting indeed! Wonder if Boeing would intend to fund Phase2/Phase3 internally, or if they'll seek to compete this idea for CC-DEV?


No, It is not going to compete against Boeing CST-100

Thanks Jim. So does that leave only the internal funding option? Or might they go for external commercial investors?  I'm just trying to see how they would justify the cost.

The article leaves a lot out, such as what vehicle would launch the obviously larger and heavier Phase2/Phase 3 versions. And what PLF could they fit inside of?

That is my opinion and it is logical.  It isn't going to compete externally or internally.  Boeing is not going to spend internal money on two proposals, where only one can win (NASA isn't going to fund two from one company either)

This idea is just marketing spin from a different Boeing group from the one doing CST-100.

Anyways, the larger one would fly without a fairing.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 10/06/2011 08:53 pm
Is there a black need for a super sized X-37?

No I do not expect an answer.

Given what Jim has posted it sounds like the only path that may lead to a larger vehicle being built.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 10/08/2011 08:56 pm
has anyone been keeping track for both missions?

what has been the highest orbit of the x37b?


(repost, still looking for this info)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Stephan on 10/09/2011 08:18 am
has anyone been keeping track for both missions?

what has been the highest orbit of the x37b?

(repost, still looking for this info)
OTV 1 and OTV 2 :
(source : http://www.heavens-above.com )
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Antares on 10/09/2011 10:21 pm
Consistent y-axis scale fail. You are sentenced to read everything Ed Tufte has ever written, or at least his contributions to the Columbia investigation.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 10/10/2011 02:58 am
So in other words OTV-2 is staying at a roughly constant altitude while OTV-1 had frequent orbital changes, pointing to OTV-2 flying a different mission than OTV-1.

And to really make Antares head hurt. Two more useful graphs would be the time progression of OTV-1 and OTV-2's orbital period and a graph of the two missions repeating ground path periods.

Those graphs make my head hurt because they show an altitude that is not the perigee or apogee. Is that the average altitude?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 10/10/2011 04:49 am
Consistent y-axis scale fail. You are sentenced to read everything Ed Tufte has ever written, or at least his contributions to the Columbia investigation.

yeah, if you really want to compare the two, need to have the same scales for both graphs.  I have had many projects with bad grades for that reason.....
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Mike_1179 on 10/10/2011 09:51 am
I had an undergrad prof that would kill a student if they had unlabeled axis...still makes me twinge when I see it
 
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 10/10/2011 04:28 pm
So in other words OTV-2 is staying at a roughly constant altitude while OTV-1 had frequent orbital changes, pointing to OTV-2 flying a different mission than OTV-1.

And to really make Antares head hurt. Two more useful graphs would be the time progression of OTV-1 and OTV-2's orbital period and a graph of the two missions repeating ground path periods.

Those graphs make my head hurt because they show an altitude that is not the perigee or apogee. Is that the average altitude?

This is my main interest .....the published specs.

Low-Earth Orbit, 110 -- 500 miles above Earth

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/ic/sis/x37b_otv/x37b_otv.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Patchouli on 10/10/2011 07:41 pm
What really interesting they are using a new TPS called TUFROC and TUFI and all the control surfaces are electromechanical.

Good to see someone is doing something to develop and test new thermal protection system materials.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 10/11/2011 08:11 pm
What really interesting they are using a new TPS called TUFROC and TUFI and all the control surfaces are electromechanical.

Good to see someone is doing something to develop and test new thermal protection system materials.

wondered if the Black material on Orion was this same stuff?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: brettreds2k on 11/15/2011 07:40 pm
Have they announced any idea when they will land?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 11/15/2011 07:46 pm
Have they announced any idea when they will land?

I've wondered if the X37B has HQ cams onboard?    It has passed several times to Phobos G.   Could have been interesting.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 11/15/2011 07:59 pm
Have they announced any idea when they will land?

I've wondered if the X37B has HQ cams onboard?    It has passed several times to Phobos G.   Could have been interesting.

Not viable. 
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Negative Return on 11/29/2011 07:50 pm
Sounds like it won't be coming home this week:

"The X-37B orbital test vehicle was due to land in California this week, but the Air Force said Tuesday that the mission will be extended. A landing date has not been set."

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpps/news/scitech/space/no-landing-date-yet-for-air-force-mystery-craft-x-37b-dpgapx-20111129-fc_16157397
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 11/29/2011 09:14 pm
Sounds like it won't be coming home this week:

"The X-37B orbital test vehicle was due to land in California this week, but the Air Force said Tuesday that the mission will be extended. A landing date has not been set."

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpps/news/scitech/space/no-landing-date-yet-for-air-force-mystery-craft-x-37b-dpgapx-20111129-fc_16157397

enjoying the mystery with this test and hope OTV-3 is planned.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 11/30/2011 01:46 pm
Sounds like it won't be coming home this week:

"The X-37B orbital test vehicle was due to land in California this week, but the Air Force said Tuesday that the mission will be extended. A landing date has not been set."

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpps/news/scitech/space/no-landing-date-yet-for-air-force-mystery-craft-x-37b-dpgapx-20111129-fc_16157397

enjoying the mystery with this test and hope OTV-3 is planned.

I can't decide if the mission extension is a sign that OTV-3 will, or will not, happen.  There certainly is nothing on any public schedule about such a mission.  There were stories this past March about officials "hoping" for a reflight, but in the end it will have to be about the money, and the services provided for the money.  Which brings us to the question:  "What services"?

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Skyrocket on 11/30/2011 01:58 pm
Sounds like it won't be coming home this week:

"The X-37B orbital test vehicle was due to land in California this week, but the Air Force said Tuesday that the mission will be extended. A landing date has not been set."

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpps/news/scitech/space/no-landing-date-yet-for-air-force-mystery-craft-x-37b-dpgapx-20111129-fc_16157397

enjoying the mystery with this test and hope OTV-3 is planned.


OTV-3 is not planned, as there are only two vehicles (OTV-1 and OTV-2) existing. A second flight of OTV-1 was mulled at some time, but i do not know, if it is planned.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Lurker Steve on 11/30/2011 02:13 pm
Sounds like it won't be coming home this week:

"The X-37B orbital test vehicle was due to land in California this week, but the Air Force said Tuesday that the mission will be extended. A landing date has not been set."

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpps/news/scitech/space/no-landing-date-yet-for-air-force-mystery-craft-x-37b-dpgapx-20111129-fc_16157397

enjoying the mystery with this test and hope OTV-3 is planned.

I can't decide if the mission extension is a sign that OTV-3 will, or will not, happen.  There certainly is nothing on any public schedule about such a mission.  There were stories this past March about officials "hoping" for a reflight, but in the end it will have to be about the money, and the services provided for the money.  Which brings us to the question:  "What services"?

 - Ed Kyle

I think it more depends on whether there is more they want to learn about the X-37B design before going into "production". It was designed for 270 days in space, but obviously the Airforce wants to see how much farther they can go. Perhaps they have enough fuel left on board to stretch the mission to 1 yr.

We haven't heard much about the post-flight analysis of the OTV-1 flight.

I guess we will never be able to see them practice that quick landing / prepare for next launch scenario. I suppose it is possible for them to land OTV-2, perform their checkouts and refurbs in a week, then ship it to CCAFS to be encapsulated in a fairing without having an actual Atlas V or launch slot reserved. We know how to launch the craft, it's the launch prep time we want to reduce.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 11/30/2011 02:17 pm
Just tidbit of info.

Notice the AC purge on the landing photo.   The same vehicle interface was used for prelaunch cooling.

In the encapsulation photo, the fairing AC inlet diffuser has a duct connected to it that is routed down the fairing.  This duct will make its way across the Centaur and up through the launch vehicle adapter into the X-37.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Namechange User on 11/30/2011 02:31 pm
Sounds like it won't be coming home this week:

"The X-37B orbital test vehicle was due to land in California this week, but the Air Force said Tuesday that the mission will be extended. A landing date has not been set."

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpps/news/scitech/space/no-landing-date-yet-for-air-force-mystery-craft-x-37b-dpgapx-20111129-fc_16157397

enjoying the mystery with this test and hope OTV-3 is planned.


OTV-3 is not planned, as there are only two vehicles (OTV-1 and OTV-2) existing. A second flight of OTV-1 was mulled at some time, but i do not know, if it is planned.

Rumor has it still that one of the OPFs is going to X-37 (Boeing or USAF).  But those are just rumors and there are a plenty of them right now.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 11/30/2011 03:52 pm
It was designed for 270 days in space, but obviously the Airforce wants to see how much farther they can go. Perhaps they have enough fuel left on board to stretch the mission to 1 yr.

Or they want more data from the payload and want to keep that data coming as long as possible. ie. they run out of consumables (propellant).

Which brings up a point, the DOD/AF have said in the past the purpose was fly a little, tweak a little. Sounds to me like they do not need to tweak this payload and (my speculation) are kicking (again unfounded speculation) themselves for not launching this payload on a real sat bus. They would not have had to worry about the platforms orbital lifetime.

Edit: They have hinted in several articles they are happy with the "data" they are getting and have hinted that they would like to keep it up as long as possible. So this really is not a complete surprise.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 11/30/2011 08:54 pm
Just tidbit of info.

Notice the AC purge on the landing photo.   The same vehicle interface was used for prelaunch cooling.

In the encapsulation photo, the fairing AC inlet diffuser has a duct connected to it that is routed down the fairing.  This duct will make its way across the Centaur and up through the launch vehicle adapter into the X-37.

Hmm, thanks for pointing that out Jim. So DEFINITELY a payload inside, not just an empty payload bay.

I'm not up on all the payloads requiring AC interfaces pre & post flight, but (to me) it seems like a broad spectrum of choices (thinking back to one of the last shuttle flights with science degredation due to lack of purge, though too busy/lazy to check which and for what, let alone remember).
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Namechange User on 11/30/2011 09:52 pm
Just tidbit of info.

Notice the AC purge on the landing photo.   The same vehicle interface was used for prelaunch cooling.

In the encapsulation photo, the fairing AC inlet diffuser has a duct connected to it that is routed down the fairing.  This duct will make its way across the Centaur and up through the launch vehicle adapter into the X-37.

Hmm, thanks for pointing that out Jim. So DEFINITELY a payload inside, not just an empty payload bay.

I'm not up on all the payloads requiring AC interfaces pre & post flight, but (to me) it seems like a broad spectrum of choices (thinking back to one of the last shuttle flights with science degredation due to lack of purge, though too busy/lazy to check which and for what, let alone remember).

That doesn't necisarrily mean it was "AC" like you would crank down in your house or car because something in there needs to be kept cold.  Its likely just conditioned air at relatively ambient temps (can be adjusted up and down as necessary) that moves through purge ducts throughout the vehicle, and payload bay, to keep everything properly conditioned, humidity out, etc. 

On landing, this would be used to help cool the structure as well and prevent thermal soak back from distorting or warping it. 
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Gregori on 11/30/2011 10:14 pm
I am confounded. What does this machine actually do apart from go into orbit and come back?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 11/30/2011 10:22 pm
OTV-3 is not planned, as there are only two vehicles (OTV-1 and OTV-2) existing. A second flight of OTV-1 was mulled at some time, but i do not know, if it is planned.

Not even sure if an OTV-3 could be built at this point either, thought I saw earlier how the Seal beach division of Boeing was being ravaged....

still, you already have two reusable spacecraft, no need for a third if none of the previous ones have flown a second time
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 11/30/2011 10:45 pm
OTV-3 is not planned, as there are only two vehicles (OTV-1 and OTV-2) existing. A second flight of OTV-1 was mulled at some time, but i do not know, if it is planned.

Not even sure if an OTV-3 could be built at this point either, thought I saw earlier how the Seal beach division of Boeing was being ravaged....

still, you already have two reusable spacecraft, no need for a third if none of the previous ones have flown a second time

well the OTV-3 label would follow onto the refurb OTV-1 no?

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 11/30/2011 11:36 pm
Just tidbit of info.

Notice the AC purge on the landing photo.   The same vehicle interface was used for prelaunch cooling.

In the encapsulation photo, the fairing AC inlet diffuser has a duct connected to it that is routed down the fairing.  This duct will make its way across the Centaur and up through the launch vehicle adapter into the X-37.

Hmm, thanks for pointing that out Jim. So DEFINITELY a payload inside, not just an empty payload bay.

I'm not up on all the payloads requiring AC interfaces pre & post flight, but (to me) it seems like a broad spectrum of choices (thinking back to one of the last shuttle flights with science degredation due to lack of purge, though too busy/lazy to check which and for what, let alone remember).

Actually, the AC would still be required if there was no payload.  The X-37 avionics need cooling.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Moe Grills on 12/02/2011 08:46 pm
I am confounded. What does this machine actually do apart from go into orbit and come back?

If it's military, ask the military.
Of course, they won't tell you.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 12/04/2011 01:52 am
Just tidbit of info.

Notice the AC purge on the landing photo.   The same vehicle interface was used for prelaunch cooling.

In the encapsulation photo, the fairing AC inlet diffuser has a duct connected to it that is routed down the fairing.  This duct will make its way across the Centaur and up through the launch vehicle adapter into the X-37.

Hmm, thanks for pointing that out Jim. So DEFINITELY a payload inside, not just an empty payload bay.

I'm not up on all the payloads requiring AC interfaces pre & post flight, but (to me) it seems like a broad spectrum of choices (thinking back to one of the last shuttle flights with science degredation due to lack of purge, though too busy/lazy to check which and for what, let alone remember).

That doesn't necisarrily mean it was "AC" like you would crank down in your house or car because something in there needs to be kept cold.  Its likely just conditioned air at relatively ambient temps (can be adjusted up and down as necessary) that moves through purge ducts throughout the vehicle, and payload bay, to keep everything properly conditioned, humidity out, etc. 

On landing, this would be used to help cool the structure as well and prevent thermal soak back from distorting or warping it. 

I know that. 'conditioned air' being the more appropriate term in this case.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 12/04/2011 01:56 am
Just tidbit of info.

Notice the AC purge on the landing photo.   The same vehicle interface was used for prelaunch cooling.

In the encapsulation photo, the fairing AC inlet diffuser has a duct connected to it that is routed down the fairing.  This duct will make its way across the Centaur and up through the launch vehicle adapter into the X-37.

Hmm, thanks for pointing that out Jim. So DEFINITELY a payload inside, not just an empty payload bay.

I'm not up on all the payloads requiring AC interfaces pre & post flight, but (to me) it seems like a broad spectrum of choices (thinking back to one of the last shuttle flights with science degredation due to lack of purge, though too busy/lazy to check which and for what, let alone remember).

Actually, the AC would still be required if there was no payload.  The X-37 avionics need cooling.

But would the air purge on the avionics be so critical post flight? Surely the avionics electronics would stand up to the intense reentry heating, and the vehicle soaking of said heat (not sure of the term 180 to 'cold soak') - but the payload might be a different story.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 12/04/2011 04:14 am

But would the air purge on the avionics be so critical post flight? Surely the avionics electronics would stand up to the intense reentry heating, and the vehicle soaking of said heat (not sure of the term 180 to 'cold soak') - but the payload might be a different story.

it depends on how long the avionics stayed powered post landing.  It has nothing to do with heat of entry.  The avionics is in an enclosed body, on the ground is uses air for heat rejection; in space, there is a deployable radiator.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Kim Keller on 12/06/2011 05:59 pm
OTV-3 is not planned, as there are only two vehicles (OTV-1 and OTV-2) existing. A second flight of OTV-1 was mulled at some time, but i do not know, if it is planned.

Not even sure if an OTV-3 could be built at this point either, thought I saw earlier how the Seal beach division of Boeing was being ravaged....

still, you already have two reusable spacecraft, no need for a third if none of the previous ones have flown a second time

well the OTV-3 label would follow onto the refurb OTV-1 no?



Yes, it will likely be the designator for the next OTV flight, regardless of whether airframe 1 or 2 is used.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Lurker Steve on 12/19/2011 09:10 pm
OTV-3 is not planned, as there are only two vehicles (OTV-1 and OTV-2) existing. A second flight of OTV-1 was mulled at some time, but i do not know, if it is planned.

Not even sure if an OTV-3 could be built at this point either, thought I saw earlier how the Seal beach division of Boeing was being ravaged....

still, you already have two reusable spacecraft, no need for a third if none of the previous ones have flown a second time

well the OTV-3 label would follow onto the refurb OTV-1 no?



Yes, it will likely be the designator for the next OTV flight, regardless of whether airframe 1 or 2 is used.

It appears that ULA has updated the 2012 manifest with a OTV-3 flight.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 12/20/2011 05:32 pm
Good news meaning they havn't pulled the plug on funding.

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 12/20/2011 05:42 pm
Good news meaning they havn't pulled the plug on funding.

That actually is a good question, they have not pulled the plug on OTV-3 funding, but we do not know when it was actually funded. We also do not know if there is (or is not) any funding for OTV-4 and higher.

Speaking of unknowns, has there been any update on OTV-2's homecoming?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 12/20/2011 06:00 pm
Good news meaning they havn't pulled the plug on funding.


Don't understand.  It looks like it has nothing to with the X-37 but with its payload.  I would expect the payload to continue in development and deployment and the X-37 to bow out.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: mmeijeri on 12/20/2011 06:09 pm
Don't understand.  It looks like it has nothing to with the X-37 but with its payload.  I would expect the payload to continue in development and deployment and the X-37 to bow out.

Fun speculation by Rand Simberg:

What Is Paul Allen’s Venture Really For? (http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=39194)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 12/20/2011 06:21 pm
Good news meaning they havn't pulled the plug on funding.


Don't understand.  It looks like it has nothing to with the X-37 but with its payload.  I would expect the payload to continue in development and deployment and the X-37 to bow out.

understand, the testing still has some value.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: marshallsplace on 01/05/2012 11:52 am
The BBC has an article :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16423881
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Lurker Steve on 01/05/2012 02:20 pm
These X-37 conspiracy theories are great. The comments after the articles are even more out there than the articles themselves. Gee, perhaps the Air Force really does have a device that can cause earthquakes, and is looking for a launch platform now that the shuttle is retired.

I assume what ever is in the X-37 payload bay will require some sort of spacecraft to move it around in orbit, since it's not a free-flier. Do we have any clue on the cost of X-37 operations ? Is there any equivalent vehicle / spacecraft that can provide the same services for less cost ?

For instance, you could probably launch this package in the trunk of a Dragon, if you trusted them with sensitive DOD payloads and there was a method to deploy or orient the package in the proper direction, but the Dragon couldn't stay in space for 9-12 months at a time, and you won't get the payload back when the flight is over.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: JimO on 01/06/2012 05:18 am
The BBC has an article :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16423881

I'm baffled -- I can't get the orbits to come out anywhere NEAR co-planar, as the article clearly indicates. The Right Ascensions of Ascending Nodes are substantially different, precluding any close fast fly-by observations.

Have I overlooked something, or have the boffins at BIS made an enormous technological blunder?

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: baldusi on 01/06/2012 11:05 am
The BBC has an article :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16423881
I'm baffled -- I can't get the orbits to come out anywhere NEAR co-planar, as the article clearly indicates. The Right Ascensions of Ascending Nodes are substantially different, precluding any close fast fly-by observations.
Have I overlooked something, or have the boffins at BIS made an enormous technological blunder?
They started when they proposed that a vehicle launched six months earlier was going to spy a vehicle launched later. I do respect BBC, but in this case it's completely out of reality.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 01/06/2012 12:51 pm
Yeah, I noticed Fox also picked it up ...

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/01/05/is-air-forces-x-37b-robot-space-plane-spying-on-china

...Somewhere I suspect a whole group of government employees is asphyxiating, as they try to roll off the floor and stop laughing.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: JimO on 01/06/2012 12:57 pm
Can anybody with good sattrack graphics produce a simple illustration showing the two criss-crossing orbits with RAAN sep of >95 degrees, so the mass media can understand why this story is bogus? Thanks in advance!!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 01/06/2012 03:02 pm
The real story is how well the X-37 test bed is working.  Must have been a slow news day at the BBC.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 01/06/2012 03:06 pm
The real story is how well the X-37 test bed is working. 

No different that any other spacecraft.  Its orbital capabilities are not unique or exceptional.  Its ability to land and be reused is what is special about it.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 01/06/2012 03:20 pm
The real story is how well the X-37 test bed is working. 

No different that any other spacecraft.  Its orbital capabilities are not unique or exceptional.  Its ability to land and be reused is what is special about it.

You forgot about the long term space visit, this is breaking new ground when combined with land and reuse.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 01/06/2012 03:31 pm
The real story is how well the X-37 test bed is working. 

No different that any other spacecraft.  Its orbital capabilities are not unique or exceptional.  Its ability to land and be reused is what is special about it.

You forgot about the long term space visit, this is breaking new ground when combined with land and reuse.


No, it isn't.  It is not long term, as most spacecraft last many years.
This is not a manned vehicle like the shuttle that has consumables that limit mission duration.

You are looking at it from the wrong perspective.
It is not a shuttle with a long mission duration
It is a spacecraft that can land and be reused.  It is like putting wings on a DSMP or NOAA spacecraft vs shrinking a shuttle orbiter.

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 01/06/2012 03:53 pm
The real story is how well the X-37 test bed is working. 

No different that any other spacecraft.  Its orbital capabilities are not unique or exceptional.  Its ability to land and be reused is what is special about it.

You forgot about the long term space visit, this is breaking new ground when combined with land and reuse.


No, it isn't.  It is not long term, as most spacecraft last many years.
This is not a manned vehicle like the shuttle that has consumables that limit mission duration.

You are looking at it from the wrong perspective.
It is not a shuttle with a long mission duration
It is a spacecraft that can land and be reused.  It is like putting wings on a DSMP or NOAA spacecraft vs shrinking a shuttle orbiter.


Not thinking of consumables cause all that’s handled by the solar cells for the most part.

How the TPS etc handles the long term exposure and space debris is the new ground.  My mistake for not being clearer.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jason1701 on 01/06/2012 05:17 pm
Can anybody with good sattrack graphics produce a simple illustration showing the two criss-crossing orbits with RAAN sep of >95 degrees, so the mass media can understand why this story is bogus? Thanks in advance!!

I'm on it.

How did you know the RAAN?
EDIT: I see it's from skywatching data.

EDIT: Done. Most of their close approaches aren't all that close. Definitely no spying going on.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 01/06/2012 05:48 pm

How the TPS etc handles the long term exposure and space debris is the new ground.  My mistake for not being clearer.


No, that isn't either.  Nothing new there. 
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Robotbeat on 01/06/2012 06:55 pm
X37b has a far, far smaller cross-section than the Shuttle, so its chances of getting orbital debris damage is proportionally smaller.

Plus, there's no loss of life in case there is some damage (worst case for damage to the TPS--not counting damage elsewhere--is that you have to build a new one for the next mission instead of being able to reuse the current one... but the mission can still continue pretty normally until reentry). So no big reason to worry about orbital debris any more than another spacecraft. But that's not "ground-breaking TPS technology," it's just due to the fact that it's smaller and unmanned.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: JimO on 01/06/2012 08:26 pm
Bloopers in Space

POSTED BY: James Oberg  /  Fri, January 06, 2012

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/aerospace/military/bloopers-in-space

IMAGE: Jason Silverman
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 01/06/2012 10:20 pm
Two thumbs up! We should report you to the moderators for accurate reporting ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 01/07/2012 01:17 am
O.K.  We know it is not spying on Tiangong-1.

So, what *is* it "spying" on?

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Antares on 01/07/2012 03:11 am
Why do laymen insist on knowing such things and not just let the military do its job to keep us safe? Other countries don't need our help.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jason1701 on 01/07/2012 03:13 am
O.K.  We know it is not spying on Tiangong-1.

So, what *is* it "spying" on?

 - Ed Kyle

All the countries that hate us?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 01/07/2012 03:49 am
Why do laymen insist on knowing such things and not just let the military do its job to keep us safe? Other countries don't need our help.

As a U.S. taxpayer, I have every right to ask the questions and to ponder the possibilities. 

At any rate, unless they are completely inept, the "other countries" already know the answers. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: apace on 01/07/2012 09:52 am
All the countries that hate us?

Countries don't hate, as the majority of the people in "unfriendly" countries... it's always about the power of the leading people in such countries which use hate for the control of their power.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: DARPA-86 on 01/07/2012 12:32 pm
O.K.  We know it is not spying on Tiangong-1.

So, what *is* it "spying" on?

 - Ed Kyle
I see from Jason1701's graph post above that one of the orbital tracks runs virtually over the top of Qom in Iran.

Qom is a city of about a million people, about a hundred miles south of Tehran, and is roughly serving the same capacity of Vatican City for Shia Islam.  It plays host to any number of Grand Ayatollah's, has some 50 higher educational religious training institutions that play host to tens of thousands of prospective Shia Islamic clerics whose theology corresponds to that of Iran, including several thousand from Pakistan or who have ethnic and generational ties to Afghainstan.

The "Iranian Space Agency" also has a center locted there where they are working on - as reported in open sources - their version of a sub-orbital ballistic missile.

And their underground uranium enrinchment facility is located just outside of town.

Perhaps these three things located in close geographic proximity are just elements of random chance - as is the overflight profile of X-37.

One is free to draw their own conclusions.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 01/07/2012 01:19 pm
That is just one orbital track, over time that will happen to any point on the planet between -42.8 and 42.8 degrees. You might as well say it is spying on Obama's golf game. I am sure all his golf courses are covered by it ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jason1701 on 01/07/2012 01:40 pm
I see from Jason1701's graph post above that one of the orbital tracks runs virtually over the top of Qom in Iran.

Qom is a city of about a million people, about a hundred miles south of Tehran, and is roughly serving the same capacity of Vatican City for Shia Islam.  It plays host to any number of Grand Ayatollah's, has some 50 higher educational religious training institutions that play host to tens of thousands of prospective Shia Islamic clerics whose theology corresponds to that of Iran, including several thousand from Pakistan or who have ethnic and generational ties to Afghainstan.

The "Iranian Space Agency" also has a center locted there where they are working on - as reported in open sources - their version of a sub-orbital ballistic missile.

And their underground uranium enrinchment facility is located just outside of town.

Perhaps these three things located in close geographic proximity are just elements of random chance - as is the overflight profile of X-37.

One is free to draw their own conclusions.

As kevin-rf said, if you set it to display a few months' of ground tracks instead of just three the middle of the planet becomes covered with a yellow rectangle.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 01/07/2012 06:23 pm
O.K.  We know it is not spying on Tiangong-1.

So, what *is* it "spying" on?

 - Ed Kyle

Who said its a spy?  The payload could be alot of things.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jason1701 on 01/08/2012 05:23 pm
Space.com jumping on the discrediting bandwagon.
http://www.space.com/14163-secret-x37b-space-plane-spying-china.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: JimO on 01/09/2012 02:53 pm
I have now read the as-published Spaceflight article and its technical argument is as unjustified as it originally looked, based on the second-hand BBC account [which was very professionally accurate]. 
 
The one-page article [no author], entitled "Is X-37B stalking China's space station?", describes the X-37B and Tiangong-1 as being "in almost exactly the same orbit", with the X-37B having "the ability to approach Tiangong-1 for diagnostic tracking and systems monitoring." [graf 1]. It then describes maneuvers by X-37B that "would bring it into a co-planar orbit with Tiangong-1." [graf 3] 
 
The specific claim that the two vehicles are in the same orbit and co-planar is factually false. 
 
The inititial impressions of a 'horrendous' mistake in orbital mechanics are validated by the actual article. 
 
By the way: An introduction to the article, by 'THE EDITOR' on page 1, actually endorses the theorized mission as prudent and justified, and applauds it.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Thorny on 01/09/2012 03:10 pm
O.K.  We know it is not spying on Tiangong-1.

So, what *is* it "spying" on?


Why make the assumption it is spying on anything? Isn't that a little like asking what we were using the X-15 to bomb?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 01/09/2012 03:13 pm
Why make the assumption it is spying on anything? Isn't that a little like asking what we were using the X-15 to bomb?

Dryden ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 01/09/2012 06:23 pm
O.K.  We know it is not spying on Tiangong-1.

So, what *is* it "spying" on?


Why make the assumption it is spying on anything? Isn't that a little like asking what we were using the X-15 to bomb?

The X-15 was not designed to bomb anything.  X-37B, on the other hand, was meant to be a precursor for Space Maneuver Vehicle, which had reconnaissance of ground and space objects as one of its objectives.  It stands to reason that a test flight, especially a second test flight, might also be used to test or demonstrate a useful payload.     

Consider that STS-1 only carried flight instrumentation, but STS-2 carried OSTA-l, which included remote sensing SIR-A.  RMS also flew for the first time.  Etc.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: marshallsplace on 01/10/2012 11:43 am
Johnathon Amos has updated the original BBC article to include a link to Jim Obergs assessment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16423881
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: douglas100 on 01/10/2012 07:18 pm

Have I overlooked something, or have the boffins at BIS made an enormous technological blunder?

This speculation is in the current edition of Spaceflight. It makes no sense to me. I go with the blunder theory. It's a bit embarrassing, really.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: JimO on 01/10/2012 08:15 pm
This speculation is in the current edition of Spaceflight. It makes no sense to me. I go with the blunder theory. It's a bit embarrassing, really.

Seems like the right people are embarrassed and determined to do better -- the mature reaction. And the mature follow-up is to be supportive and encouraging. Reporting on the very edge, and sometimes beyond, of the space frontier is a recipe for occasionally getting it wrong, sometimes spectacularly, especially when dealing with subjects that are not only largely secret, but sometimes involve active measures for deception. and misdirection. I speak from personal experience.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: sdsds on 01/12/2012 03:26 am
As regards the lines of apsides being out of alignment:  can clever use of orbit precession cause them come into alignment?  Suppose for example the X-37B raised its apogee considerably, at a point where apogee was over the equator.  Would it's orbit then precess at a rate something close to half the rate of a low-Earth circular orbit?  After waiting long enough, could it then lower its apogee and be co-orbital with its target?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: sdsds on 01/13/2012 07:35 am
(Oops I wrote "lines of apsides" but probably meant ascending nodes.)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 01/13/2012 05:45 pm
(Oops I wrote "lines of apsides" but probably meant ascending nodes.)

It would seem possible to precess the nodes, albeit only gradually, by changing altitude and orbital eccentricity.  Perhaps a differential in precession between two orbiting objects could gradually bring one into a coplanar orbit with the other?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nodal_precession

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: sdsds on 01/14/2012 03:04 am
I imagine a simulation could be conducted using a tool like GMAT to determine, for realistic delta-v capabilities of the X37B chaser, how gradual the maneuver would end up being.  A comment from Nathan at hobbyspace http://hobbyspace.com/nucleus/?itemid=34848 suggests this as well.  Martijn commented there as well.  Martijn, are you certain controlling the rate of precession of the nodes by making orbit altitude adjustments requires prohibitively high delta-v, even for a DoD satellite?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 01/14/2012 05:12 pm
  Martijn, are you certain controlling the rate of precession of the nodes by making orbit altitude adjustments requires prohibitively high delta-v, even for a DoD satellite?

The real beauty of the X-37 design is what It "could do".  Don't think its a spy atm.   But the first designs were for a system to launch satellites in a 27 day mission, and return to earth.

Nothing to say the X-37 in the future couldn't drop off a nano pkg at anytime near something to spy upon.   

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: mmeijeri on 01/14/2012 05:29 pm
Martijn, are you certain controlling the rate of precession of the nodes by making orbit altitude adjustments requires prohibitively high delta-v, even for a DoD satellite?

I'm not certain, I wasn't considering nodal regression. I vaguely recall someone in a related discussion suggesting it would take impractically long if the delta-v is to be modest, but I don't remember the details.

Nathan argued:

Quote
The period of an orbit depends on its altitude, right? Therefore, the right ascension point should be precessing around the earth at a rate proportional to the orbit's altitude.

and I don't follow the logic there. Without the effects of the Earth's oblateness and the like there wouldn't be any nodal regression. Unfortunately I don't really understand nodal regression very well yet. We could look up a formula for the regression rate and see how it varies with the relevant orbital parameters. That should be fun.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jorge on 01/15/2012 12:43 am
Martijn, are you certain controlling the rate of precession of the nodes by making orbit altitude adjustments requires prohibitively high delta-v, even for a DoD satellite?

I'm not certain, I wasn't considering nodal regression. I vaguely recall someone in a related discussion suggesting it would take impractically long if the delta-v is to be modest, but I don't remember the details.

Nathan argued:

Quote
The period of an orbit depends on its altitude, right? Therefore, the right ascension point should be precessing around the earth at a rate proportional to the orbit's altitude.

and I don't follow the logic there. Without the effects of the Earth's oblatenes and the like there wouldn't be any nodal regression. Unfortunately I don't really understand nodal regression very well yet. We could look up a formula for the regression rate and see how it varies with the relevant orbital parameters. That should be fun.

omega_dot = -3*n*j2*r_e^2*cos(i)/(2*a^2*(1 - e^2)^2)

where:

omega_dot = nodal regression rate
n = mean motion
j2 = Earth's second zonal harmonic (1.082e-3)
r_e = Earth's equatorial radius (6378.137 km)
i = inclination
a = semimajor axis
e = eccentricity
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: sdsds on 01/15/2012 07:02 am
The http://www.braeunig.us/space/orbmech.htm page says we can get the mean motion (n) from the semi-major axis (a); see attached image.  Assume the target is in a 360x360 km orbit, as is initially the chaser.  That orbit has a semi-major axis of 6738.137 km.  I calculate a mean motion of 1.14E-03 rad/sec, which yields an orbital period of 1.53 hours, which looks correct.  Assuming I'm using the correct units, this translates into an omega dot of -4.95 degrees per day.

If the chaser executes a 250 m/s burn it enters a 360x1314 orbit and its omega dot becomes -3.93 deg/day.  Its relative omega dot is thus approximately 1 deg/day, and it takes at most 180 days for its orbit to become coplanar with that of its target.  After another 250 m/s burn to decrease perigee it is in the same orbit as its target, though possibly leading or trailing it by some amount.

Maybe I did that calculation wrong, or maybe no real-world chaser (X37B) has 500 m/s of delta-v to spare?


Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 01/15/2012 03:49 pm
Maybe I did that calculation wrong, or maybe no real-world chaser (X37B) has 500 m/s of delta-v to spare?

I suspect that in practice a spacecraft would not have that much delta-v to spare.  It would thus have to make smaller changes that would mean much more time (multiple months or even longer) would pass before the orbits were aligned.  One the nodes were aligned, more delta-v would still be needed to actually chase down the rendezvous target.  The target, of course, would be able to "watch" all of this happen over the long interval required and would be able to act accordingly.  There have probably been a few thesis papers written about the optimal way to avoid an unwanted rendezvous.   

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: mmeijeri on 01/15/2012 03:54 pm
There have probably been a few thesis papers written about the optimal way to avoid an unwanted rendezvous.   

You, sir, are a genius.  ;D
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 01/22/2012 01:06 am
Just think another day another record for this test.

Wonder if they can go 365 days?

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: js117 on 01/22/2012 07:00 pm
A article on www.msn.com
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46091282/ns/technology_and_science-space/


Mystery surrounds Air Force's secretive X-37B space plane landing planace/
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Comga on 01/24/2012 04:56 pm
X-37B spacecraft may continue to circle Earth, experts say  (http://www.space.com/14305-secret-x37b-space-plane-landing-mystery.html)

Same article but I love the title. (from the AIA daily lead)
"May continue to circle"  Ya think?
As a very special extension of Newton's first law, things in orbit tend to stay in orbit.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 01/24/2012 06:38 pm
I just love how they state as fact that the extra long flight is because it is an endurance test.

How about the option of what ever data it is collecting and or returning is more important to the end user than returning the X-37 to it's owner (who may or may not be the same entity) in a timely manner?

And if you thought late rental car return fee's where bad... ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: DeanG1967 on 01/25/2012 01:48 am
As a very special extension of Newton's first law, things in orbit tend to stay in orbit.

Unless it is Phobes-Grunt
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 02/07/2012 07:49 pm
any landing date yet?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 02/07/2012 09:10 pm
No. Keep an eye on this thread, if it is announced it will be posted here.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: baldusi on 02/07/2012 09:14 pm
any landing date yet?
I think it will stay up to check the next Tiangong docking.  :P
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Mapperuo on 02/07/2012 09:28 pm
any landing date yet?
I think it will stay up to check the next Tiangong docking.  :P

Don't start, The BBC will write another article on it.  ;D
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: yinzer on 02/08/2012 11:13 pm
Is it still maneuvering? An extended stay could also be explained by a failure of some sort - say a flat MLG tire - that would make a successful landing very unlikely...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 02/14/2012 12:32 pm
I read somewhere that there was to be a third flight.  Is that still the plan? If so, when?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: DeanG1967 on 03/03/2012 10:05 pm
2 days until her 1 year anniversary on orbit
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Paul Adams on 03/03/2012 10:33 pm
2 days until her 1 year anniversary on orbit

WOW!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: js117 on 03/05/2012 07:42 pm
Here is a articale on that very subject.

http://www.space-travel.com/reports/What_Next_for_X_37B_999.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Comga on 03/05/2012 07:56 pm
Here is a articale on that very subject.

http://www.space-travel.com/reports/What_Next_for_X_37B_999.html

That article is particularly information-free.
It's still up there.  It could stay there.  It could come down at some point.  The Air Force is watching what is happening, they suppose.  No discussion of life limits or potential issues preventing landing.

When was the last time the X37B changed its orbit?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 03/05/2012 11:16 pm
Here is a articale on that very subject.

http://www.space-travel.com/reports/What_Next_for_X_37B_999.html

That article is particularly information-free.
It's still up there.  It could stay there.  It could come down at some point.  The Air Force is watching what is happening, they suppose.  No discussion of life limits or potential issues preventing landing.

When was the last time the X37B changed its orbit?

I used to watch it close and it doesn't change.  My guess is it would only use fuel to maintain status.

My thinking of late regarding the X37B, is that it has become "expendable".  The payload kept in orbit is more important until the replacement(s) can be launched.   

But what do I know?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Comga on 03/06/2012 04:45 am
Here is a articale on that very subject.

http://www.space-travel.com/reports/What_Next_for_X_37B_999.html (http://www.space-travel.com/reports/What_Next_for_X_37B_999.html)

That article is particularly information-free.
It's still up there.  It could stay there.  It could come down at some point.  The Air Force is watching what is happening, they suppose.  No discussion of life limits or potential issues preventing landing.

When was the last time the X37B changed its orbit?

I used to watch it close and it doesn't change.  My guess is it would only use fuel to maintain status.

My thinking of late regarding the X37B, is that it has become "expendable".  The payload kept in orbit is more important until the replacement(s) can be launched.   

But what do I know?

None of us know, but that's an interesting speculation.

Remember MXB?  It was a small, fixed aperture, body fixed experiment that searched for other "resident space objects".  The Air Force kept it running as long as they could, for about six years after its one year original lifetime, almost until they got an operational asset up to replace it.  It could be that whatever sensor is on board is more important than the recovered X37B would be, and/or its replacement is not ready.

Or it could be stuck, unable to return, for some reason.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: neilh on 03/06/2012 05:43 am
At this point, I wonder if it's worth keeping it up there longer just to screw with foreign counter-intelligence efforts. Sure, it *probably* doesn't have a camera and/or sensor suite capable of doing recon on ground targets, but foreign counter-intelligence can't know that for certain. ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: js117 on 03/06/2012 11:36 pm
Here is a article on msn about it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46645152#.T1asabyF8qU

Third X-37B mission reportedly being readied for possible launch later this year
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: savuporo on 03/25/2012 03:29 pm
Yes i meant to post this here:
http://spaceports.blogspot.com/2012/03/x-37b-space-plane-game-changing-mission.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 03/29/2012 05:45 pm
Here is a article on msn about it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46645152#.T1asabyF8qU

Third X-37B mission reportedly being readied for possible launch later this year

The more testing the better.

Have hopes the NROL launches will allow the X-37B to return soon.

That should open up some speculation.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 03/30/2012 01:44 am

Have hopes the NROL launches will allow the X-37B to return soon.

That should open up some speculation.


If it fit inside the X-37B, most likely an operational system will ride up on a smaller vehicle like a Minotaur or Athena.

Even though it is the NRO, I highly doubt the NRO would require a Delta IV Heavy to launch an operational version of what ever it is has been testing ;)

So have any new Minotaur's or Athena's been added to the books lately?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 03/30/2012 02:14 am

The more testing the better.

Have hopes the NROL launches will allow the X-37B to return soon.

That should open up some speculation.


not even related
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/08/2012 08:08 pm
New article on fox:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/05/08/secret-air-force-x-37b-space-plane-mission-pectacular-success/?test=latestnews

Still no comments when when she is coming home.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Lurker Steve on 05/08/2012 08:11 pm
New article on fox:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/05/08/secret-air-force-x-37b-space-plane-mission-pectacular-success/?test=latestnews

Still no comments when when she is coming home.

It does appear that they are going to re-fly the first X37B for the upcoming OTV-3 mission instead of building a new vehicle.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/08/2012 08:52 pm

It does appear that they are going to re-fly the first X37B for the upcoming OTV-3 mission instead of building a new vehicle.


I thought that had been stated previously...

btw. The latest observation on Seasat was four days ago: http://www.satobs.org/seesat/May-2012/0047.html She is still ticking and has not maneuvered recently.

Sigh, if it wasn't overcast and I could drag myself out of bed at 4am, over the next week I would be able to see some great overflights ( http://heavens-above.com/PassSummary.aspx?satid=37375 (login with your location required) ).
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: js117 on 05/08/2012 10:11 pm
A Artice on www.space.com about  X37B
http://www.space.com/15575-secret-x37b-space-plane-mission-success.html

from the article
Scaled-up X-37B space planes planned?
 
An intriguing sidelight to the X-37 program is whether or not Boeing's Phantom Works is keen on using the spacecraft for other, nonmilitary missions, or even upgrading the X-37 space plane concept for human spaceflight.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/09/2012 12:05 am
Same author (Leonard David) on both articles ;)

Lets see how many times it gets republished.

Also, I missed it earlier. There is a quote by Ted Molczan in the space.com article that says it has a 2 day repeating ground track (42.8 degree, 332 km x 341km). Is that accurate?

I think that would be the first time I heard OTV-2 has a repeating ground track.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/22/2012 02:24 pm
Interesting ground imaging of the X-37 posted by Ron Lansing on seasat:

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/May-2012/0227.html

Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EmqRXvKrho&list=UUpc3Fb3CQsGVbNMF0doOokA&index=2&feature=plcp

It looks like it maneuvered around the 16th (also in the seesat archives), does that mean the mission might be coming to an end?

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: js117 on 05/22/2012 08:13 pm
Interesting ground imaging of the X-37 posted by Ron Lansing on seasat:

http://www.satobs.org/seesat/May-2012/0227.html

Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EmqRXvKrho&list=UUpc3Fb3CQsGVbNMF0doOokA&index=2&feature=plcp

It looks like it maneuvered around the 16th (also in the seesat archives), does that mean the mission might be coming to an end?




Could the platform be the suspected solar array panels it
has in its cargo bay.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/22/2012 11:52 pm
Looks like it to my uneducated eye...

Skimming the seesat archive, it sounds like the few observers who have picked it up over the last few days have been reporting it dimmer than expected. Which to me would make sense if the solar panel is now stowed in preparation for something... What, we can only guess.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jason1701 on 05/23/2012 02:10 am
Looks like it to my uneducated eye...

Skimming the seesat archive, it sounds like the few observers who have picked it up over the last few days have been reporting it dimmer than expected. Which to me would make sense if the solar panel is now stowed in preparation for something... What, we can only guess.

It will probably land soon so they can analyze it before integrating OTV-3.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: FinalFrontier on 05/23/2012 02:33 am
I have to say I sort of forgot this mission even existed until this thread came back up.

Its absolutely shocking to think its been on orbit for over a year. And it really begs the question of what exactly their doing with it (or what some of the trajectory changes last year were all about or how they were accomplished.)


Very interesting. However, I have to say, I am glad its the U.S. Air Force flying a vehicle like this and not someone else :)


Can't wait to see it come home. Want to see what it looks like after such a long mission.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Danderman on 05/23/2012 02:52 am

Or it could be stuck, unable to return, for some reason.

What goes up must come down.

Unless the spacecraft is capable of maintaining its nominal altitude via occasional thruster firings, in which case it should be capable of controlled de-orbit.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Antares on 05/23/2012 03:11 am
I wonder how much a tailhook would cut into payload.  Given how much the Navy servers were blowing up after USA-193, I can only imagine what they might do if USN got to recover one of these.  Seems like the trap would be easy (if there were a gear problem) if the bird could find a CVN.  "Housecat ball.  Zero point Zero."


(I hereby christen the X-37 as the Housecat.  Multiple lives, seems to do nothing all day, and no one is really sure what it's looking at.)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/23/2012 01:17 pm

Unless the spacecraft is capable of maintaining its nominal altitude via occasional thruster firings, in which case it should be capable of controlled de-orbit.


It has been maintaining a 31:2 resonance orbit (Repeating ground track) the entire mission. That is why the changes over the last week have everyone so excited.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Lurker Steve on 05/23/2012 01:57 pm
Looks like it to my uneducated eye...

Skimming the seesat archive, it sounds like the few observers who have picked it up over the last few days have been reporting it dimmer than expected. Which to me would make sense if the solar panel is now stowed in preparation for something... What, we can only guess.

Do you think the X-37 has enough batteries to fly for days without Solar Power ? I would think that the solar arrays would be one of the last items to stow before thinking about decent.

I think it's likely that the X-37 has stowed something away into it's cargo bay, perhaps some sort of large sensor array, but shutting down power generation early ? That doesn't make sense to me.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/23/2012 03:50 pm
I remember a post from somewhere that listed a Boeing patent that allowed for a solar array to be quickly stowed for maneuvers, then quickly un-stowed... It has been moving about lately.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Lurker Steve on 05/23/2012 06:29 pm
I remember a post from somewhere that listed a Boeing patent that allowed for a solar array to be quickly stowed for maneuvers, then quickly un-stowed... It has been moving about lately.

That makes more sense. Stow the arrays and test manuvering with the arrays stowed. Then re-deploy later to recharge the batteries.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/24/2012 01:23 am
My that bugger moves when it crosses the sky! Just made a very nice Eyeball Mark 1.0 observation of it.


Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 05/30/2012 07:19 pm
She's coming home!!!

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av026/preland/

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: brettreds2k on 05/30/2012 07:25 pm
The first one is also refurbed and ready to come back to the cape for her second launch in October!! Very cool.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Fred M on 05/30/2012 09:10 pm
The statement used by the above site.

http://www.vandenberg.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123304066
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jason1701 on 05/30/2012 10:12 pm
Chris: "she" or "it"?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: DeanG1967 on 06/05/2012 03:42 am
anyone seen any orbit changes?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 06/05/2012 03:55 am
Could the platform be the suspected solar array panels it
has in its cargo bay.


No, it's the videographer's imagination at work and misunderstanding of how cameras function. Notice his other videos include imagery of a former football stadium on the moon.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 06/05/2012 01:04 pm
anyone seen any orbit changes?
Nothing on seasat since the early May maneuvers.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 06/05/2012 05:22 pm
Foxnews talking heads just mentioned on air it landed. No details.

Edit: I can find nothing online, I wonder if the talking head misspoke.

Edit2: Okay the fox talking head misspoke, just heard another give a teaser for it saying it is getting ready to land. Teach me to leave cable news on in the background.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: FinalFrontier on 06/07/2012 04:21 pm
The statement used by the above site.

http://www.vandenberg.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123304066


Can wait to see her back on earth.

Really looking forward to getting a look at what it looks like externally after such a long mission.

Still mindblown that it could fly for so long.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 06/08/2012 05:47 pm
X-37B is over the Pacific right now, on a track that passes not far from VAFB.  It will see similar daylight morning (Pacific Time) passes during coming days, but no passes at night.  The last landing was at night, as I recall.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Alpha Control on 06/08/2012 06:00 pm
X-37B is over the Pacific right now, on a track that passes not far from VAFB.  It will see similar daylight morning (Pacific Time) passes during coming days, but no passes at night.  The last landing was at night, as I recall.

 - Ed Kyle

I do hope that means a daylight landing. Would love to see footage of the approach and touchdown (the last landing was at night, as you noted, Ed, so we only got to see the rollout after touchdown.)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 06/08/2012 06:04 pm
Just checked Heavens-Above and don't have any predicted visible passes for the next week. I wonder if the usual SeeSat suspects will be able to spot, or not spot it over the next few days.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 06/08/2012 08:09 pm
X-37B is over the Pacific right now, on a track that passes not far from VAFB.  It will see similar daylight morning (Pacific Time) passes during coming days, but no passes at night.  The last landing was at night, as I recall.

 - Ed Kyle

I do hope that means a daylight landing. Would love to see footage of the approach and touchdown (the last landing was at night, as you noted, Ed, so we only got to see the rollout after touchdown.)

Yes, but that's because the Air Force didn't want to show anything else.  It clearly would have had infrared tracking video of the entire approach and landing, but none of that has been released.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Moe Grills on 06/09/2012 09:47 pm
   Be grateful they won't try to land that thing at Groom Lake.
The guards around that max-security perimeter are authorized
to use "deadly force" against any intruder/lurker.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/10/2012 08:13 pm
Just checked Heavens-Above and don't have any predicted visible passes for the next week. I wonder if the usual SeeSat suspects will be able to spot, or not spot it over the next few days.

June 14th forward looks possible after the 18th even better.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Danderman on 06/11/2012 10:04 pm
I don't want to set up a new thread for this, but it occurs to me that X-37 would be a marvelous Mars orbiter; although its relatively lightweight, it could carry a 500 pound science package; perform aerobraking repeatedly, and in the event that ISRU is ever developed at Mars, maybe could be refueled from a surface lander, or from Phobos or Deimos, for return to Earth.

How X-37 would be powered for a long mission is a mystery to me, though.

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Skyrocket on 06/11/2012 10:21 pm
I don't want to set up a new thread for this, but it occurs to me that X-37 would be a marvelous Mars orbiter; although its relatively lightweight, it could carry a 500 pound science package; perform aerobraking repeatedly, and in the event that ISRU is ever developed at Mars, maybe could be refueled from a surface lander, or from Phobos or Deimos, for return to Earth.

How X-37 would be powered for a long mission is a mystery to me, though.

Much too heavy - for aerobraking one does not need wings or an heatshield for complete reentry or even a landing gear. Such an aerobreaking shield should be lightwight and should have a simple geometry.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Alpha Control on 06/11/2012 10:44 pm
X-37B is over the Pacific right now, on a track that passes not far from VAFB.  It will see similar daylight morning (Pacific Time) passes during coming days, but no passes at night.  The last landing was at night, as I recall.

 - Ed Kyle

I do hope that means a daylight landing. Would love to see footage of the approach and touchdown (the last landing was at night, as you noted, Ed, so we only got to see the rollout after touchdown.)

Yes, but that's because the Air Force didn't want to show anything else.  It clearly would have had infrared tracking video of the entire approach and landing, but none of that has been released.

 - Ed Kyle

And that puzzles me. For a vehicle that started out as a NASA project, I wouldn't think the aerodynamic qualities of the vehicle would be a secret.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/11/2012 11:04 pm
X-37B is over the Pacific right now, on a track that passes not far from VAFB.  It will see similar daylight morning (Pacific Time) passes during coming days, but no passes at night.  The last landing was at night, as I recall.

 - Ed Kyle

I do hope that means a daylight landing. Would love to see footage of the approach and touchdown (the last landing was at night, as you noted, Ed, so we only got to see the rollout after touchdown.)

Yes, but that's because the Air Force didn't want to show anything else.  It clearly would have had infrared tracking video of the entire approach and landing, but none of that has been released.

 - Ed Kyle

And that puzzles me. For a vehicle that started out as a NASA project, I wouldn't think the aerodynamic qualities of the vehicle would be a secret.

If say a payload door would swing open during landing it might show the cargo.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/11/2012 11:07 pm
I don't want to set up a new thread for this, but it occurs to me that X-37 would be a marvelous Mars orbiter; although its relatively lightweight, it could carry a 500 pound science package; perform aerobraking repeatedly, and in the event that ISRU is ever developed at Mars, maybe could be refueled from a surface lander, or from Phobos or Deimos, for return to Earth.

How X-37 would be powered for a long mission is a mystery to me, though.

You mean like a Red Dragon?  Don't let the SpaceX users hear this idea.  Boeing does manufacture Sats.  Never know.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 06/12/2012 12:19 am
I don't want to set up a new thread for this, but it occurs to me that X-37 would be a marvelous Mars orbiter; although its relatively lightweight, it could carry a 500 pound science package; perform aerobraking repeatedly, and in the event that ISRU is ever developed at Mars, maybe could be refueled from a surface lander, or from Phobos or Deimos, for return to Earth.

How X-37 would be powered for a long mission is a mystery to me, though.

Not really

A.  it doesn't generate enough power.
b.  its body shape and thermal properties are wrong for deep space.
c.  it has the wrong body shape for aerobraking, it creates lift where as drag is needed.
d. it has limited field of views for a proper science package
e.  the 500lb includes mounting structure which is much like ASE in a shuttle.
f.  it has poor payload to total mass ratio. (it isn't lightweight)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Alpha Control on 06/12/2012 01:04 am
X-37B is over the Pacific right now, on a track that passes not far from VAFB.  It will see similar daylight morning (Pacific Time) passes during coming days, but no passes at night.  The last landing was at night, as I recall.

 - Ed Kyle

I do hope that means a daylight landing. Would love to see footage of the approach and touchdown (the last landing was at night, as you noted, Ed, so we only got to see the rollout after touchdown.)

Yes, but that's because the Air Force didn't want to show anything else.  It clearly would have had infrared tracking video of the entire approach and landing, but none of that has been released.

 - Ed Kyle

And that puzzles me. For a vehicle that started out as a NASA project, I wouldn't think the aerodynamic qualities of the vehicle would be a secret.

If say a payload door would swing open during landing it might show the cargo.


I'm hard-pressed to imagine how that could happen. If the payload bay door is secure enough to endure the forces encountered during a successful re-entry, I don't know what would cause it 'pop open' at the last minute during approach and landing.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 06/12/2012 09:26 am
At the risk of sounding like a cynic, my personal favoured theory is that the spacecraft has suffered some kind of malfunction or anomaly that makes a controlled and survivable re-entry impossible.  They've thus extended the mission to wring every drop of useful data out of the flight before they lose the vehicle.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: marshal on 06/12/2012 11:59 am
At the risk of sounding like a cynic, my personal favoured theory is that the spacecraft has suffered some kind of malfunction or anomaly that makes a controlled and survivable re-entry impossible.  They've thus extended the mission to wring every drop of useful data out of the flight before they lose the vehicle.

Air Force officials have said the window for landing extends to June 18
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 06/12/2012 12:57 pm
They've thus extended the mission to wring every drop of useful data out of the flight before they lose the vehicle.

Why would they give landing info out then? And wouldn't it make sense to let people know ahead of time? If they say it's going to burn up on reentry beforehand, it looks MUCH better than saying afterwards "We knew it was going to."

Sometimes the need to find a conspiracy overrides the better choice ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/12/2012 02:12 pm
X-37B is over the Pacific right now, on a track that passes not far from VAFB.  It will see similar daylight morning (Pacific Time) passes during coming days, but no passes at night.  The last landing was at night, as I recall.

 - Ed Kyle

I do hope that means a daylight landing. Would love to see footage of the approach and touchdown (the last landing was at night, as you noted, Ed, so we only got to see the rollout after touchdown.)

Yes, but that's because the Air Force didn't want to show anything else.  It clearly would have had infrared tracking video of the entire approach and landing, but none of that has been released.

 - Ed Kyle

And that puzzles me. For a vehicle that started out as a NASA project, I wouldn't think the aerodynamic qualities of the vehicle would be a secret.

If say a payload door would swing open during landing it might show the cargo.


I'm hard-pressed to imagine how that could happen. If the payload bay door is secure enough to endure the forces encountered during a successful re-entry, I don't know what would cause it 'pop open' at the last minute during approach and landing.

my poor example.....Keep in mind OTV-2 is a “test” spacecraft.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/12/2012 02:16 pm
At the risk of sounding like a cynic, my personal favoured theory is that the spacecraft has suffered some kind of malfunction or anomaly that makes a controlled and survivable re-entry impossible.  They've thus extended the mission to wring every drop of useful data out of the flight before they lose the vehicle.

If the spacecraft was having a malfunction the "payload" would need to be burned up while some control was still possible?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 06/12/2012 02:34 pm
Come on, lets not talk conspiracy. The USAF liked the results of what ever was being returned so much that they kept it in orbit as long as possible. Now it's time to bring it home. Either the X-37 is at the end of it's endurance, the payload is, they no longer need more data, or they have something (in orbit?) to replace the data it was returning.

As for bringing it home at night (like last time), well there could be a host of reasons

1. The auto land function may work better at night.
2. If something goes wrong the last leg of the mission home (like lets say it enters a flat spin and tears itself apart), prying eyes will not be able to see much.
3. Maybe, and this is the Occam's Razor's favorite, OTV-1 was aligned best with a Vandenberg night landing when they decided to push the button.

Sigh... This thread is starting to look like a SpaceX Dragon on <insert favorite inter galactic location> thread.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/12/2012 03:30 pm
or they have something to replace the data it was returning.


favor this thought.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 06/13/2012 03:07 am

As for bringing it home at night (like last time), well there could be a host of reasons

1. The auto land function may work better at night.
2. If something goes wrong the last leg of the mission home (like lets say it enters a flat spin and tears itself apart), prying eyes will not be able to see much.
3. Maybe, and this is the Occam's Razor's favorite, OTV-1 was aligned best with a Vandenberg night landing when they decided to push the button.


While one and three sound good, don't forget that weather is generally more begnin then as well....and if you don't have a pilot that needs to see to land then sunlight is more foe than friend.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/13/2012 02:14 pm
According to Universe Today, it could land as early as today: http://www.universetoday.com/95810/secret-x-37b-mini-space-shuttle-could-land-today/ (http://www.universetoday.com/95810/secret-x-37b-mini-space-shuttle-could-land-today/)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 06/13/2012 02:25 pm
I think the Mark Twain quote is:

Quote
The reports of the X-37's landing are greatly exaggerated

;)

It will be interesting to see when OTV-2 lands.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/13/2012 02:52 pm
According to Universe Today, it could land as early as today: http://www.universetoday.com/95810/secret-x-37b-mini-space-shuttle-could-land-today/ (http://www.universetoday.com/95810/secret-x-37b-mini-space-shuttle-could-land-today/)

"mission enabled ground controllers"   Where are the ground controllers located for this mission?
 
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 06/13/2012 03:30 pm
According to Universe Today, it could land as early as today: http://www.universetoday.com/95810/secret-x-37b-mini-space-shuttle-could-land-today/ (http://www.universetoday.com/95810/secret-x-37b-mini-space-shuttle-could-land-today/)

"mission enabled ground controllers"   Where are the ground controllers located for this mission?
 

Falcon AFB and Huntington Beach
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 06/13/2012 03:34 pm
For completeness, the article the universe today pulled it's summary from: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/air-forces-mysterious-mini-space-shuttle-set-to-land/
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 06/14/2012 01:21 pm
Another day, another landing article.

http://news.yahoo.com/air-forces-secretive-x-37b-space-plane-may-030032173.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: JimO on 06/14/2012 01:31 pm
Based on past flight profiles, what is the approximate window for landings today and tomorrow?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 06/14/2012 01:47 pm
Might want to look at the passes on heavens-above... (I think they currently have accurate coordinates)

http://heavens-above.com/PassSummary.aspx?satid=37375&lat=34.7297&lng=-120.5769&loc=Unspecified&alt=0&tz=PST

(Check all passes to get the daylight passes)

Edit:
Wag here,

In PST:

6:26 on the 15th
11:14 on the 16th
Maybe
6:29 on the 16th
5:00 on the 18th
9:24 on the 19th

Guess it all depends on the crossrange.

Considering they said the window extends through the 18th, most good passes are in the dark, and the "good" pass on the 18th at 5:00 PST might hint at the crossrange.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/14/2012 02:37 pm
Might want to look at the passes on heavens-above... (I think they currently have accurate coordinates)

http://heavens-above.com/PassSummary.aspx?satid=37375&lat=34.7297&lng=-120.5769&loc=Unspecified&alt=0&tz=PST

(Check all passes to get the daylight passes)

Edit:
Wag here,

In PST:

6:26 on the 15th
11:14 on the 16th
Maybe
6:29 on the 16th
5:00 on the 18th
9:24 on the 19th

Guess it all depends on the crossrange.

Considering they said the window extends through the 18th, most good passes are in the dark, and the "good" pass on the 18th at 5:00 PST might hint at the crossrange.

So I can learn something .....why not on the 14th in the dark?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/14/2012 02:41 pm
X37B Landing radar (need to lookup the name for it).  Understand it was installed special on the west coast.   Is this system available at the Cape?

Guess I'm trying to track down if the AF is trying to save funds or landing on the West coast because of the Payload.

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 06/14/2012 02:41 pm

In PST:

6:26 on the 15th
11:14 on the 16th
Maybe
6:29 on the 16th
5:00 on the 18th
9:24 on the 19th

Guess it all depends on the crossrange.


Your WAGs are off by an hour... California is on PDT, not PST, so if you converted those are all wrong.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 06/14/2012 03:19 pm

So I can learn something .....why not on the 14th in the dark?


Because I missed it looking through the table ;) Which pass are you referring to (remember 12:43 is lunch time 13:43 is a very late lunch).
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 06/14/2012 03:31 pm

In PST:

6:26 on the 15th
11:14 on the 16th
Maybe
6:29 on the 16th
5:00 on the 18th
9:24 on the 19th

Guess it all depends on the crossrange.


Your WAGs are off by an hour... California is on PDT, not PST, so if you converted those are all wrong.

It read them out of the table which used GMT-8, your right PDT currently is GMT -7, not -8 so they are all an hour later. Ie, none are at night!

7:26 on the 15th
12:14 on the 16th
Maybe
7:29 on the 16th
6:00 on the 18th
10:24 on the 19th

I blame congress for imposing a mess of a time system.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/14/2012 03:56 pm
Scratch this date: was still working on the 13th with little java in me.

1)   My guesstimate it takes 30+ minutes prior to landing so we would not be in full sunlight.
2)   We have clouds and a lot of cover because of the fires, and a lot of the air is not clear, so no full sunlight.
3)   Depending on the fuel available the Orbit can be changed and come in earlier by 1-2 hours?
4)   Remember a fuel dump is a must to balance her out before landing. 

So today could be interesting if she changes orbit or not?


Edit: need to double check if that time was for my location or landing site.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: AnalogMan on 06/14/2012 04:05 pm

Your WAGs are off by an hour... California is on PDT, not PST, so if you converted those are all wrong.

It read them out of the table which used GMT-8, your right PDT currently is GMT -7, not -8 so they are all an hour later. Ie, none are at night!

Heavens Above Frequently Asked Questions

Q.    Will I have to do anything when we change to/from daylight saving time to winter time?
A.    No, the prediction software calculates when the changes are due to occur and all times are given in the correct local time.


http://heavens-above.com/ShowFAQ.aspx?lat=34.7297&lng=-120.5769&loc=Unspecified&alt=0&tz=PST&FAQID=302

I checked ISS sightings from Heavens Above and NASA predictions (also given in local time, and which I would assume to be corrected for daylight savings) for Vandenberg - they are the same within a minute of each other.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 06/14/2012 04:29 pm
7:26 AM PDT on the 15th and 12:14 PM PDT on the 16th are the two closest tracks to Vandenberg AFB during the next four days.  6 AM PDT on the 18th and 7:29 AM on the 16th are the next two closest tracks. 

The 12:14 PM June 16 track is the only descending track of the four.  I'm not sure if that matters. 

Weather is cloudy in the mornings, clearing during the afternoons, if that matters for X-37B.

Local news reports suggested a pre-10 AM landing time having been called off earlier this week, on Monday.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/14/2012 06:56 pm
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=24323.msg914635#msg914635

I called that on the 8th.   The info i had has changed.  Q: has the orbit been changed since the 8th?

someone with more experience than myself.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: brettreds2k on 06/15/2012 12:18 pm
Any word on if its coming home today as planned?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 06/15/2012 01:54 pm
Any word on if its coming home today as planned?

When was that officially announced? I've yet to hear USAF giving a planned landing date.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: brettreds2k on 06/15/2012 02:20 pm
Dont think they officially said just everything I have read this week stated they were most likley trying for today before 10am PST so was just seeing if anyone has heard anything.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 06/15/2012 03:17 pm
If you peruse this thread, there have been a number of possible dates. Nobody knows anything, and if they did they aren't going to post it here :)

Keep an eye on this thread for the latest.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: brettreds2k on 06/15/2012 06:16 pm
On MSNBC it says they are attempting tomorrow depending on weather of course.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47813934/ns/technology_and_science-space/#.T9t7ehevKSo
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: DeanG1967 on 06/15/2012 08:34 pm
Oddly enough the NOTAM below is for the warning area (W532) due west of Vandenburg and the restricted area (R2516) right over the base

06/013 (A1536/12) - AIRSPACE W532E ACT SFC-UNL. 16 JUN 07:30 2012 UNTIL 16 JUN 16:30 2012. CREATED: 15 JUN 18:11 2012

and

M0295/12 - RESTRICTED AREA 2516 CLOSED SURFACE TO FL250. 16 JUN 08:00 2012 UNTIL 16 JUN 13:30 2012. CREATED: 15 JUN 19:44 2012

So the warning area (surface to unlimited) is active the 16th 0730Z to 1630Z and the restricted area (surface to 25,000 feet MSL) is closed the 16th 0800Z to 1330Z.  Any passes fit in those times?



 
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Orbiter on 06/15/2012 08:51 pm
Oddly enough the NOTAM below is for the warning area (W532) due west of Vandenburg and the restricted area (R2516) right over the base

06/013 (A1536/12) - AIRSPACE W532E ACT SFC-UNL. 16 JUN 07:30 2012 UNTIL 16 JUN 16:30 2012. CREATED: 15 JUN 18:11 2012

and

M0295/12 - RESTRICTED AREA 2516 CLOSED SURFACE TO FL250. 16 JUN 08:00 2012 UNTIL 16 JUN 13:30 2012. CREATED: 15 JUN 19:44 2012

So the warning area (surface to unlimited) is active the 16th 0730Z to 1630Z and the restricted area (surface to 25,000 feet MSL) is closed the 16th 0800Z to 1330Z.  Any passes fit in those times?


Perhaps this?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Lee Jay on 06/15/2012 09:00 pm
That would put them down something like an hour after the window opens, I think.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: DeanG1967 on 06/16/2012 01:00 am
Weather forecast is for Fog / low ceilings at 400 to 600 feet (I assume that is a no go but who knows
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/16/2012 02:16 pm
it has landed at 5:48 am PDT (12:48 UTC)

Source (http://www.spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av026/landing/index.html)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Retired Downrange on 06/16/2012 02:26 pm
see here

http://santamariatimes.com/news/local/military/vandenberg/x--b-lands-this-morning-at-vandenberg-afb/article_31f5827c-b7bc-11e1-80b2-0019bb2963f4.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 06/16/2012 02:53 pm
Wow, what a run!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jason1701 on 06/16/2012 03:14 pm
USAF story, including high-res pic:
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123306243

Quote
The vehicle was initially a NASA initiative, but was transferred to the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency in 2004. When it first launched in 2006, it was lauded for its cutting-edge technologies, such as the auto de-orbit capability, thermal protection tiles, and high-temperature components and seals.

What launched in 2006? OTV-1 was 2010.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: ras391 on 06/16/2012 03:17 pm
If this is the actual landing photo, it looks like it was never used!!!!

Way to go Air Force.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 06/16/2012 03:26 pm
If this is the actual landing photo, it looks like it was never used!!!!

Way to go Air Force.

That's an old, preflight photo, probably of OTV 1, that has been around for awhile.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Targeteer on 06/16/2012 07:58 pm
Video of the landing

http://www.vandenberg.af.mil/shared/widgets/popup.asp?url=http://www.vandenberg.af.mil/shared/xml/rssVideo.asp?mrsstype=3&contentid=123306242&contenttypeid=1&type=video&pos=0
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: robertross on 06/16/2012 08:12 pm
Video of the landing

http://www.vandenberg.af.mil/shared/widgets/popup.asp?url=http://www.vandenberg.af.mil/shared/xml/rssVideo.asp?mrsstype=3&contentid=123306242&contenttypeid=1&type=video&pos=0

Fantastic little bird.

Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Targeteer on 06/16/2012 08:17 pm
Reminiscent of the shuttle coming home with the nose cap glowing in the IR shot...
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: js117 on 06/16/2012 09:42 pm
Do you think the X37c a upgrade of X-37B will be built.
 Now that Boeing knows this craft frew so well.
X37-c could be man rated for 6 crewmanand goto the ISS.

http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/2011/10/08/boeing-x-37c/
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: apace on 06/16/2012 09:52 pm
Do you think the X37c a upgrade of X-37B will be built.
 Now that Boeing knows this craft frew so well.
X37-c could be man rated for 6 crewmanand goto the ISS.
http://www.spacesafetymagazine.com/2011/10/08/boeing-x-37c/

Why should Boeing do this without funding?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: FinalFrontier on 06/16/2012 09:57 pm
Reminiscent of the shuttle coming home with the nose cap glowing in the IR shot...



Indeed.

Congratulations to the air force on a great mission.

Gotta say the bird looked fantastic on landing and looked like it was in great shape after such a long mission. Really impressed with that.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: rdale on 06/16/2012 10:08 pm
Video of the landing

Photoshop rocks :)

the spacecraft has suffered some kind of malfunction or anomaly that makes a controlled and survivable re-entry impossible.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/16/2012 11:18 pm
Reminiscent of the shuttle coming home with the nose cap glowing in the IR shot...



Indeed.

Congratulations to the air force on a great mission.

Gotta say the bird looked fantastic on landing and looked like it was in great shape after such a long mission. Really impressed with that.

well said, would also add she has a great sound on landing.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jason1701 on 06/17/2012 02:12 am
Questions:
-Why did they say it first launched in 2006?
-Why did the X-37 return with only one of its two main engines attached? (See the picture of it from the back.)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 06/17/2012 02:21 am
Questions:
-Why did they say it first launched in 2006?
-Why did the X-37 return with only one of its two main engines attached? (See the picture of it from the back.)

1.  I suspect the article meant that the program, not the vehicle, was "launched" in 2006.  DARPA transferred X-37B to the Air Force in 2006.
2.  It only has one main engine.  I think we figured it was an Aerojet (originally Marquardt) R4D-11, the same engine used by the early HTV and maybe ATV vehicles, and many satellites.  MMH/NTO, 490 N.  http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/r/r4d.jpg

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jason1701 on 06/17/2012 03:21 am
Thanks. The picture from the back showed that engine significantly off-center, with enough room to mount another one next to it, so I thought there might have been two.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/17/2012 04:02 am
Thanks. The picture from the back showed that engine significantly off-center, with enough room to mount another one next to it, so I thought there might have been two.

Keep in mind this is a test spacecraft.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Zero-G on 06/17/2012 12:13 pm
Some pics from Boeing and USAF:
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Rocket Science on 06/17/2012 12:24 pm
Conrats to all the teams! Thanks for the pics and video. Interesting lack of RCC in the nose and leading edges of the wings.  Looks like the vehicle and TPS performed like a champ. ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/17/2012 12:35 pm
This is all over the news today....
Saw this one last night (uber grin)

http://youtu.be/C1X2n08tJe4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1X2n08tJe4
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 06/17/2012 12:40 pm
Thanks. The picture from the back showed that engine significantly off-center, with enough room to mount another one next to it, so I thought there might have been two.

Keep in mind this is a test spacecraft.

What does engine placement have to do with it being a test vehicle.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/17/2012 12:44 pm
Thanks. The picture from the back showed that engine significantly off-center, with enough room to mount another one next to it, so I thought there might have been two.

Keep in mind this is a test spacecraft.

What does engine placement have to do with it being a test vehicle.

nothing
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: ras391 on 06/17/2012 12:46 pm
Some pics from Boeing and USAF:

Looking at the nose and the TPS design, reentry angle was very interesting. This is quite a vehicle. Very clean looking.

Go Air Force.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/17/2012 12:48 pm
Some pics from Boeing and USAF:

Anyone notice something in this pic?
Looks like room was made for the placement of a window?


Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 06/17/2012 12:50 pm
Some pics from Boeing and USAF:

Anyone notice something in this pic?
Looks like the placement of a window?

nope, just different whiter TPS for the top of the vehicle and the doors use a higher temp TPS
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/17/2012 12:58 pm
Some pics from Boeing and USAF:

Anyone notice something in this pic?
Looks like the placement of a window?

nope, just different whiter TPS for the top of the vehicle and the doors use a higher temp TPS

No the location I'm talking about is above the electronics bay.   The location your talking about might be the solar panel door?


We are still waiting on the pics of you standing in front of an X-37B.  Hint, Hint
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: ChileVerde on 06/17/2012 02:00 pm

Is a description of the autopilot/autoland system X-37 uses available?  I looked around but didn't find anything very specific.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 06/17/2012 06:20 pm
Thanks. The picture from the back showed that engine significantly off-center, with enough room to mount another one next to it, so I thought there might have been two.

There were plans for two engines at one time, discussed in a Boeing paper that I can't find right now.  Perhaps costs or mission changes forced, or allowed, use of only one engine and the easiest way to implement the change was to simply install only one of two while keeping the hardpoints for two.

Just guessing though.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: manboy on 06/17/2012 08:02 pm
Do you think the X37c a upgrade of X-37B will be built.
No.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Antares on 06/17/2012 10:07 pm
Why should Boeing do this without funding?

Because they did 707, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 787 without subsidy. Eventually deep pocket, Old Space is going to have to act like the rest of their company and not like the parts that have been unweaned from NASA and the DoD.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: apace on 06/17/2012 10:10 pm
Why should Boeing do this without funding?
Because they did 707, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 787 without subsidy. Eventually deep pocket, Old Space is going to have to act like the rest of their company and not like the parts that have been unweaned from NASA and the DoD.

If Boeing has preorderings like in the airplane market, I'm sure they will do it, but there exist no such market!
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 06/18/2012 12:21 am
Why should Boeing do this without funding?

Because they did 707, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 787 without subsidy. Eventually deep pocket, Old Space is going to have to act like the rest of their company and not like the parts that have been unweaned from NASA and the DoD.

Boeing got a $42 billion (today's dollars) contract to build more than 800 KC-135 tankers at the dawn of the jet age. 

Plus $50 billion plus for B-52, plus more than $40 billion for B-47, etc.

The company has cashed its share of government checks.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 06/18/2012 01:25 am
I've been wondering about the post-landing center of gravity, based on the landing gear location.  I would have expected more mass on the back end, where the engine is located. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/18/2012 01:51 am
I've been wondering about the post-landing center of gravity, based on the landing gear location.  I would have expected more mass on the back end, where the engine is located. 

 - Ed Kyle

The solar Panel location has some balance & the payload.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 06/18/2012 07:34 am
If the engine is pressure fed and the tanks are empty, then there would not be much mass in the tail.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: hpras on 06/19/2012 04:21 am
my experience with model rocketry (IANARS, obviously) was that you weighted up the nose so the CoG was ahead of the CoP, and then it was aerodynamically stable.  Maybe something to do with it, but recall my disclaimer. :)

I've been wondering about the post-landing center of gravity, based on the landing gear location.  I would have expected more mass on the back end, where the engine is located. 

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 06/19/2012 09:12 am
I've been wondering about the post-landing center of gravity, based on the landing gear location.  I would have expected more mass on the back end, where the engine is located. 

I wouldn't be surprised if X37 is nose-heavy. The nose compartment is probably very densely-packed with avionics plus the fuel system for the nose RCS and the RCS package itself.

Additionally, as Kevin rightly points out, with the MPS prop tanks empty or near-empty there probably isn't much mass aft of the main gear either.


[edit]
Now, this is going to annoy Jim, but I'd like to know.  Given what we know of the X37's specifications, could you quick-reaction launch an X37 atop an all-solid LV like Minotaur-IV/V or Athena-III?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jason1701 on 06/19/2012 09:28 am
I've been wondering about the post-landing center of gravity, based on the landing gear location.  I would have expected more mass on the back end, where the engine is located. 

I wouldn't be surprised if X37 is nose-heavy. The nose compartment is probably very densely-packed with avionics plus the fuel system for the nose RCS and the RCS package itself.

Additionally, as Kevin rightly points out, with the MPS prop tanks empty or near-empty there probably isn't much mass aft of the main gear either.


[edit]
Now, this is going to annoy Jim, but I'd like to know.  Given what we know of the X37's specifications, could you quick-reaction launch an X37 atop an all-solid LV like Minotaur-IV/V or Athena-III?

X-37B is about 5 t. Minotaurs lift <2 t, Athena <3 (AFAIK). So no. But an SRB-X... :D
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/19/2012 12:43 pm
I've been wondering about the post-landing center of gravity, based on the landing gear location.  I would have expected more mass on the back end, where the engine is located. 

I wouldn't be surprised if X37 is nose-heavy. The nose compartment is probably very densely-packed with avionics plus the fuel system for the nose RCS and the RCS package itself.

Additionally, as Kevin rightly points out, with the MPS prop tanks empty or near-empty there probably isn't much mass aft of the main gear either.


[edit]
Now, this is going to annoy Jim, but I'd like to know.  Given what we know of the X37's specifications, could you quick-reaction launch an X37 atop an all-solid LV like Minotaur-IV/V or Athena-III?

X-37B is about 5 t. Minotaurs lift <2 t, Athena <3 (AFAIK). So no. But an SRB-X... :D

try non NRO a Delta II class launcher.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jason1701 on 06/19/2012 12:48 pm
I've been wondering about the post-landing center of gravity, based on the landing gear location.  I would have expected more mass on the back end, where the engine is located. 

I wouldn't be surprised if X37 is nose-heavy. The nose compartment is probably very densely-packed with avionics plus the fuel system for the nose RCS and the RCS package itself.

Additionally, as Kevin rightly points out, with the MPS prop tanks empty or near-empty there probably isn't much mass aft of the main gear either.


[edit]
Now, this is going to annoy Jim, but I'd like to know.  Given what we know of the X37's specifications, could you quick-reaction launch an X37 atop an all-solid LV like Minotaur-IV/V or Athena-III?

X-37B is about 5 t. Minotaurs lift <2 t, Athena <3 (AFAIK). So no. But an SRB-X... :D

try non NRO a Delta II class launcher.

Non NRO? What does that mean? Are you thinking of a specific launcher that I forgot about?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/19/2012 01:03 pm
I've been wondering about the post-landing center of gravity, based on the landing gear location.  I would have expected more mass on the back end, where the engine is located. 

I wouldn't be surprised if X37 is nose-heavy. The nose compartment is probably very densely-packed with avionics plus the fuel system for the nose RCS and the RCS package itself.

Additionally, as Kevin rightly points out, with the MPS prop tanks empty or near-empty there probably isn't much mass aft of the main gear either.


[edit]
Now, this is going to annoy Jim, but I'd like to know.  Given what we know of the X37's specifications, could you quick-reaction launch an X37 atop an all-solid LV like Minotaur-IV/V or Athena-III?

X-37B is about 5 t. Minotaurs lift <2 t, Athena <3 (AFAIK). So no. But an SRB-X... :D

try non NRO a Delta II class launcher.

Non NRO? What does that mean? Are you thinking of a specific launcher that I forgot about?

NRO =secret payload, fairing covered like in the Atlas V.    X-37B is only about 11,000lbs.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Lurker Steve on 06/19/2012 01:45 pm
I've been wondering about the post-landing center of gravity, based on the landing gear location.  I would have expected more mass on the back end, where the engine is located. 

I wouldn't be surprised if X37 is nose-heavy. The nose compartment is probably very densely-packed with avionics plus the fuel system for the nose RCS and the RCS package itself.

Additionally, as Kevin rightly points out, with the MPS prop tanks empty or near-empty there probably isn't much mass aft of the main gear either.


[edit]
Now, this is going to annoy Jim, but I'd like to know.  Given what we know of the X37's specifications, could you quick-reaction launch an X37 atop an all-solid LV like Minotaur-IV/V or Athena-III?

X-37B is about 5 t. Minotaurs lift <2 t, Athena <3 (AFAIK). So no. But an SRB-X... :D

try non NRO a Delta II class launcher.

Non NRO? What does that mean? Are you thinking of a specific launcher that I forgot about?

It's a launcher from that California company that hasn't qualified their fairing yet, and isnt qualified to launch critical DOD payloads yet. I don't think they would qualify for a "quick-reaction" launch either, given their record of on-time launches.

Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jason1701 on 06/19/2012 01:55 pm
I've been wondering about the post-landing center of gravity, based on the landing gear location.  I would have expected more mass on the back end, where the engine is located. 

I wouldn't be surprised if X37 is nose-heavy. The nose compartment is probably very densely-packed with avionics plus the fuel system for the nose RCS and the RCS package itself.

Additionally, as Kevin rightly points out, with the MPS prop tanks empty or near-empty there probably isn't much mass aft of the main gear either.


[edit]
Now, this is going to annoy Jim, but I'd like to know.  Given what we know of the X37's specifications, could you quick-reaction launch an X37 atop an all-solid LV like Minotaur-IV/V or Athena-III?

X-37B is about 5 t. Minotaurs lift <2 t, Athena <3 (AFAIK). So no. But an SRB-X... :D

try non NRO a Delta II class launcher.

Non NRO? What does that mean? Are you thinking of a specific launcher that I forgot about?

It's a launcher from that California company that hasn't qualified their fairing yet, and isnt qualified to launch critical DOD payloads yet. I don't think they would qualify for a "quick-reaction" launch either, given their record of on-time launches.



The original question was about all-solid launch vehicles, so I don't see how the last few posts are relevant.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 06/19/2012 01:57 pm
Silly me, I thought you where referring to Antares ;)

I mean after all in this post shuttle era, they are the only launch provider left that has experience with wings on the ELV ;)
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Rocket Science on 06/19/2012 02:23 pm
I've been wondering about the post-landing center of gravity, based on the landing gear location.  I would have expected more mass on the back end, where the engine is located. 

 - Ed Kyle
Hey Ed!

We have to remember we are dealing with an aircraft in atmospheric flight (not a rocket) in landing mode, so cg is forward of center of lift. Hence the main gear is located about the center of lift (or just rear of). Rocket motors are generally hollow expensive pieces of metal compared to a packed (dense) piston engine. You need to increase AoA at landing as lift decreases allowing a de-rotate and slapdown.

~Robert

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/trim.html

Edit: to add
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 06/19/2012 02:30 pm
Given what we know of the X37's specifications, could you quick-reaction launch an X37 atop an all-solid LV like Minotaur-IV/V or Athena-III?

There is a certain "Athena 3" like possibility that could lift the mass, though I'm not sure it could handle the payload fairing.  It would use a three-segment SRB-like booster, topped by what would essentially be an Athena 2c.  Or variations thereof.  I figure Falcon 9-like capability to LEO, in solid form.  It could fly from KSC, or a new pad at Kodiak.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 06/19/2012 02:32 pm
I've been wondering about the post-landing center of gravity, based on the landing gear location.  I would have expected more mass on the back end, where the engine is located. 

 - Ed Kyle
Hey Ed!

We have to remember we are dealing with an aircraft in atmospheric flight (not a rocket) in landing, so cg is forward of center of lift. Hence the main gear is located about the center of lift (or just rear of). As you need to increase AoA at landing as lift decreases allowing a de-rotate and slapdown.

~Robert

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/trim.html

Thanks, Robert.  It looks like X-37B has a CG substantially further forward than Shuttle orbiters, based on percent of total body length.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Rocket Science on 06/19/2012 02:37 pm
I've been wondering about the post-landing center of gravity, based on the landing gear location.  I would have expected more mass on the back end, where the engine is located. 

 - Ed Kyle
Hey Ed!

We have to remember we are dealing with an aircraft in atmospheric flight (not a rocket) in landing, so cg is forward of center of lift. Hence the main gear is located about the center of lift (or just rear of). As you need to increase AoA at landing as lift decreases allowing a de-rotate and slapdown.

~Robert

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/trim.html

Thanks, Robert.  It looks like X-37B has a CG substantially further forward than Shuttle orbiters, based on percent of total body length.

 - Ed Kyle
Agreed, from what I’ve seen on Shuttle returning hardware was always located aft in the cargo bay.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/22/2012 11:27 pm
Nice interview video
http://www.space.com/16206-inside-the-mostly-classified-x-37b-space-plane-landing-video.html
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Prober on 06/26/2012 11:26 pm
Another X-37B writeup:  China May Be Suspicious of US Air Force's X-37B Space Plane

http://www.space.com/16283-china-x-37b-space-plane-concerns.html

this made Yahoo news but this link is cleaner.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 06/27/2012 03:52 pm
Another X-37B writeup:  China May Be Suspicious of US Air Force's X-37B Space Plane

Heck, there are a lot of people in the west who have their suspicions about the X-37B.  I've ready op-eds from people on both sides of the political divide talking (either negatively or positively) about 'space fighters' and 'space drones'.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: vulture4 on 07/07/2012 08:24 pm
The goal of the X-37 is reusability. Because of the airframe mass its maneuverability in orbit is less than that of a conventional satellite. Fitting it to a DOD mission is tough. One clue to me is the Aerospace Corp. study for DOD which demonstrated that only a fully reusable launch system could significantly reduce the cost of space operations.  http://www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/news/beyondnextgen.html
According to study author Jay Penn the DOD is funding studies of a reusable flyback booster stage. A vehicle like the X-37 makes sense as an upper stage for such a reusable launch system.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 07/07/2012 11:17 pm
. A vehicle like the X-37 makes sense as an upper stage for such a reusable launch system.

X-37 is a spacecraft and not an upperstage
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Jim on 07/07/2012 11:17 pm
The goal of the X-37 is reusability.

Not true
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: vulture4 on 07/09/2012 03:55 am
The goal of the X-37 is reusability.

Not true
Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37
"The Boeing X-37 (also known as the X-37 Orbital Test Vehicle) is an American reusable unmanned spacecraft."
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: GClark on 07/09/2012 06:26 am
The goal of the X-37 is reusability.

Not true
Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-37
"The Boeing X-37 (also known as the X-37 Orbital Test Vehicle) is an American reusable unmanned spacecraft."


What it is is not the same as what its' goal is.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: edkyle99 on 07/09/2012 01:43 pm
Looking back at various quotes from Air Force and Boeing officials, I find that both typically say that X-37B, especially OTV-2, is a technology demonstrator for reusable space vehicle technologies.  Boeing noted that the demonstration was for "affordable" reusability, while the Air Force said that the return capability was important for low-risk testing of new technologies. 

But note that several years into this program, nothing about the spacecraft itself has, as yet, actually been reused as far as I can tell.  Maybe the payload is the real thing being reused.  Or maybe, as Jim hints, reuse is a ruse.

 - Ed Kyle
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 07/09/2012 02:17 pm

But note that several years into this program, nothing about the spacecraft itself has, as yet, actually been reused as far as I can tell.  Maybe the payload is the real thing being reused.  Or maybe, as Jim hints, reuse is a ruse.

 - Ed Kyle

I believe the up coming X-37b launch will be reusing the first vehicle.

Quick brain fart question, is the OTV designation for the mission or the vehicle.  ie. Will the next launch be OTV-3, or will it be OTV-1 flight 2?
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Kim Keller on 07/09/2012 03:20 pm
Quick brain fart question, is the OTV designation for the mission or the vehicle.  ie. Will the next launch be OTV-3, or will it be OTV-1 flight 2?

OTV-3 is the mission designation, and it will be a re-flight of the first airframe.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: kevin-rf on 07/09/2012 03:42 pm
Quick brain fart question, is the OTV designation for the mission or the vehicle.  ie. Will the next launch be OTV-3, or will it be OTV-1 flight 2?

OTV-3 is the mission designation, and it will be a re-flight of the first airframe.

Thanks, the caffeine had not kicked in yet, I blame the prices at Starbucks.
Title: Re: LIVE: Atlas V - X37B Flight 2 - Cape Canaveral - March 5, 2011
Post by: Star One on 07/09/2012 04:34 pm
Looking back at various quotes from Air Force and Boeing officials, I find that both typically say that X-37B, especially OTV-2, is a technology demonstrator for reusable space vehicle technologies.  Boeing noted that the demonstration was for "affordable" reusability, while the Air Force said that the return capability was important for low-risk testing of new technologies. 

But note that several years into this program, nothing about the spacecraft itself has, as yet, actually been reused as far as I can tell.  Maybe the payload is the real thing being reused.  Or maybe, as Jim hints, reuse is a ruse.

 - Ed Kyle

Maybe it's too early into the program for anything definitive to have been decided as per the development of future technologies/vehicles from it?

It's hard for anyone to say when only a limited amount is known outside of DOD circles about the goals & aims of the program.