Author Topic: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)  (Read 28059 times)

Offline russianhalo117

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8755
  • Liked: 4671
  • Likes Given: 768
The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« on: 10/22/2013 04:26 pm »
Per Space Pete's Request:
Quote
I think this thread needs to be re-named to:

"The Great MLM Debacle Thread"

September 2015? :o

This would honestly be comical if it weren't so sad. I have no idea how an experienced company can take 15 years to build something and still get it catastrophically wrong.

ESA would get ERA on-orbit sooner if they just gave it to the Chinese.

Bah, abysmul. >:(

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10288
  • Liked: 699
  • Likes Given: 723
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #1 on: 10/22/2013 05:02 pm »
I am speculating that the long delay from initial construction of FGB-2 to today has caused a deterioration of the propellant lines in MLM.  Why this would be unexpected is a mystery to me.

Online woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12094
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 18196
  • Likes Given: 12153
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #2 on: 10/22/2013 05:56 pm »
Don't think so. The ones on Zarya are even older and working just fine. And those are in a much harsher environment than the ones on MLM.

From what I understand of my DutchSpace source the propellant transfer lines on MLM were almost completely replaced with a new version when the FGB backup was converted to MLM. It is with this new version that all kinds of things seem to be wrong.

Online woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12094
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 18196
  • Likes Given: 12153
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #3 on: 10/22/2013 06:06 pm »
Per Space Pete's Request:
Quote
I think this thread needs to be re-named to:

"The Great MLM Debacle Thread"

September 2015? :o

This would honestly be comical if it weren't so sad. I have no idea how an experienced company can take 15 years to build something and still get it catastrophically wrong.

ESA would get ERA on-orbit sooner if they just gave it to the Chinese.

Bah, abysmul. >:(

Khrunichev has gone catastrophically wrong over the years. And with it the project to convert the FGB backup into MLM. At least; so it seems.
From what I hear, from the walking-corridor rumours at ESA, that is exactly the reason why RSC Energia got the contract to build the NEM modules, and not Khrunichev. Despite Khrunichev having constructed the majority of Soviet / Russian space station modules over the past 40 years.
If those rumours are correct, than that says a lot.

How could a company with so much experience in constructing space station modules get it so incredibly wrong with this one? That has got to be the result of just more than the use of some inexperienced engineers. IMO the sometimes mentioned "organizational issues" at Khrunichev are very much to blame for this.

Another indicator for Khrunichev having gone wrong is (obviously) the recent Proton failure, more particularly the (almost ridiculous) cause of that incident.
« Last Edit: 10/22/2013 06:07 pm by woods170 »

Offline baldusi

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8356
  • Buenos Aires, Argentina
  • Liked: 2539
  • Likes Given: 8273
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #4 on: 10/22/2013 06:41 pm »
And yet they've got the (future almost) exclusivity of Angara for military launches, got control of KBKhA and the future crewed launch vehicle. I don't think they are getting punished too much for their failures. Heads roll but no process changes. What's the point of punishing if you only punish scapegoats?

Offline Prober

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10348
  • Save the spin....I'm keeping you honest!
  • Nevada
  • Liked: 721
  • Likes Given: 729
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #5 on: 10/22/2013 06:52 pm »
And yet they've got the (future almost) exclusivity of Angara for military launches, got control of KBKhA and the future crewed launch vehicle. I don't think they are getting punished too much for their failures. Heads roll but no process changes. What's the point of punishing if you only punish scapegoats?

Maybe the plan is to take the company apart?     Just hasn't happened yet.
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." --Isoroku Yamamoto

Offline Lars_J

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6160
  • California
  • Liked: 677
  • Likes Given: 195
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #6 on: 11/29/2013 05:03 pm »
Since the whole space industry in Russia is headed towards nationalization (unless I am mistaken) - does it really matter if Krunichev or Energia get the contracts? After the re-org, they will be run by the same people anyway.

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10288
  • Liked: 699
  • Likes Given: 723
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #7 on: 11/29/2013 05:09 pm »
And yet they've got the (future almost) exclusivity of Angara for military launches, got control of KBKhA and the future crewed launch vehicle. I don't think they are getting punished too much for their failures. Heads roll but no process changes. What's the point of punishing if you only punish scapegoats?

Don't forget Polyot in Omsk, where much production takes place.

Offline Prober

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10348
  • Save the spin....I'm keeping you honest!
  • Nevada
  • Liked: 721
  • Likes Given: 729
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #8 on: 11/30/2013 11:38 pm »
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
 
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." --Isoroku Yamamoto

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #9 on: 12/01/2013 12:12 am »
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
 

Per the new long range to 2020/21 FPIP ISS manifest, the slip into 2015 is the official status.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Prober

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10348
  • Save the spin....I'm keeping you honest!
  • Nevada
  • Liked: 721
  • Likes Given: 729
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #10 on: 12/01/2013 01:14 am »
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
 

Per the new long range to 2020/21 FPIP ISS manifest, the slip into 2015 is the official status.
Chris I was going by this update:
Launches of ISS RS Modules to ISS Taken from Anik's Russian Launch schedule (as always subject to change):
2015
Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – Time
November (TBD) – Nauka – Proton-M – Baikonur

2016
Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – Time
May (TBD) – Progress M-UM (No. 303) – Soyuz-2-1B – Baikonur

2017
Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – Time
end of year – NEM-1 – Proton-M – Baikonur

2018
Date – Satellite(s) – Rocket/Upper stage – Cosmodrome – Time
TBD – NEM-2 – Proton-M (TBD) – Baikonur (TBD)
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." --Isoroku Yamamoto

Online woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12094
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 18196
  • Likes Given: 12153
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #11 on: 12/01/2013 02:46 pm »
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
 

The way things are going I would not be surprised if NEM-2 ends up launching in 2020, if ever.
« Last Edit: 12/01/2013 02:46 pm by woods170 »

Offline Prober

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10348
  • Save the spin....I'm keeping you honest!
  • Nevada
  • Liked: 721
  • Likes Given: 729
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #12 on: 12/01/2013 02:48 pm »
Must we wait until 2018 for the MLM and all the modules to be installed?
 

The way things are going I would not be surprised if NEM-2 ends up launching in 2020, if ever.

Sadly, I agree with you.
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." --Isoroku Yamamoto

Online owais.usmani

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 729
  • Liked: 368
  • Likes Given: 581
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #13 on: 12/01/2013 04:52 pm »
Looks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?

Offline Nicolas PILLET

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2454
  • Gien, France
    • Kosmonavtika
  • Liked: 670
  • Likes Given: 134
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #14 on: 12/01/2013 05:43 pm »
Looks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?

For now, only NEM-1 is contracted (to RKK Energiya).
Nicolas PILLET
Kosmonavtika : The French site on Russian Space

Online owais.usmani

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 729
  • Liked: 368
  • Likes Given: 581
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #15 on: 12/02/2013 04:32 am »
Looks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?

For now, only NEM-1 is contracted (to RKK Energiya).

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Online woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12094
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 18196
  • Likes Given: 12153
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #16 on: 12/02/2013 09:34 am »
Looks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?

For now, only NEM-1 is contracted (to RKK Energiya).

Yeah, that's what I thought.

What do you think my "if ever" comment was present for? ;)

Online owais.usmani

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 729
  • Liked: 368
  • Likes Given: 581
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #17 on: 12/02/2013 10:43 am »
Looks like I've missed this, but when was NEM-2 contracted? and to whom?

For now, only NEM-1 is contracted (to RKK Energiya).

Yeah, that's what I thought.

What do you think my "if ever" comment was present for? ;)

Well I got confused by you people talking about it being launched in 2018 / 2020. I thought it has been contracted & I missed the news.  :P
« Last Edit: 12/02/2013 10:44 am by owais.usmani »

Offline JazzFan

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 225
  • Florida
  • Liked: 49
  • Likes Given: 115
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #18 on: 12/02/2013 10:51 am »
Even a bad issue can create positives.  What long term improvements will come to RKK Energiya and khrunichev from the MLM debacle?

Offline Zannanza

  • Member
  • Posts: 39
  • Liked: 9
  • Likes Given: 10
Re: The Great MLM Debacle Thread (Discussion Only)
« Reply #19 on: 12/02/2013 11:08 am »
Will it ever be launched? I doubt it.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1