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International Space Flight (ESA, Russia, China and others) => Indian Launchers => Topic started by: johnxx9 on 02/04/2010 04:57 pm

Title: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: johnxx9 on 02/04/2010 04:57 pm
India's second mission to the moon.

Chandrayaan-2 Program updates (http://indianspaceweb.blogspot.com/2010/02/chandrayaan-2-program-updates.html)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Danderman on 02/04/2010 09:05 pm
For anyone not following this closely, its a Russian lander, modeled after the Phobos Grunt lander, which is a miniaturized version of the Luna landers.

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 03/16/2010 08:52 pm
I'd read that ISRO wants to add an additional smaller rover, specifically in connection with investigation of lunar water that's recently been found.
They say they'll simply trade off mass against other parts of the payload, perhaps making the orbiter smaller.

Was there an orbiter planned as part of this mission? If so, then what was its purpose?

I'm sure ISRO wishes that its GSLV-Mk3 rocket was available for this mission, given the heightened mission demands and compelling interest from the lunar water discovery.

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Space Pete on 07/28/2010 05:04 pm
Space Travel: "Chandrayaan-2 Payloads To Be Decided Next Month".
www.space-travel.com/reports/Chandrayaan_2_Payloads_To_Be_Decided_Next_Month_999.html
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 08/04/2010 02:26 pm
CY-2:

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=64123

LRO builds on CY-1 data:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=space&id=news/asd/2010/07/28/05.xml&headline=Images%20Appear%20To%20Show%20Water%20Ice%20On%20Moon

http://www.universetoday.com/70174/radar-images-reveal-tons-of-water-likely-at-the-lunar-poles/
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Space Pete on 08/16/2010 03:23 pm
BBC News: "Race to launch Moon landing probe".
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-10960409

RussianSpaceWeb: "Luna-Glob/Luna-Resurs".
www.russianspaceweb.com/luna_glob.html


Moon mission on track: ISRO chief.
www.deccanchronicle.com/hyderabad/moon-mission-track-isro-chief-978
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Space Pete on 08/30/2010 06:46 pm
Payloads for Chandrayaan-2 Mission Finalised.

Chandrayaan-2, India's second mission to moon, is being targeted for launch during 2013. Chandrayaan-2 will have an orbiter (satellite), a lander and a rover. Chandrayaan-2 is planned to be launched onboard Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV) from Satish Dhawan Space Centre, Sriharikota. While the lander will be provided by Russia, the orbiter and the rover are being built by ISRO.

The payloads to be flown onboard Chandrayaan-2 (orbiter and rover) have been finalised by a National committee of experts drawn from ISRO centres, academic institutions and R & D laboratories and Chaired by Prof U R Rao, Chairman, Advisory Committee on Space Sciences (ADCOS) and former Chairman of ISRO.

The committee, after detailed deliberations and considering the mission requirements, weight and power available for scientific payloads, has recommended five payloads to be flown on the orbiter of which three are new and two are improved versions of the payloads flown earlier on Chandrayaan-1 orbiter. The committee has also recommended two scientific payloads on the rover of Chandrayaan-2. Inclusion of additional payloads, if possible within the mission constraints, will be considered at a later date following a detailed review.
The five recommended payloads of Chandrayaan-2 orbiter are as follows:

1. Large Area Soft X-ray Spectrometer (CLASS) from ISRO Satellite Centre (ISAC),
    Bangalore and Solar X-ray Monitor (XSM) from Physical Research Laboratory (PRL),
    Ahmedabad for mapping the major elements present on the lunar surface.
2. L and S band Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) from Space Applications Centre (SAC),
    Ahmedabad for probing the first few tens of meters of the lunar surface for the
    presence of different constituents including water ice. SAR is expected to provide
    further evidence confirming the presence of water ice below the shadowed regions of
    the moon.
3. Imaging IR Spectrometer (IIRS) from SAC, Ahmedabad for the mapping of lunar
    surface over a wide wavelength range for the study of minerals, water molecules and
    hydroxyl present.
4. Neutral Mass Spectrometer (ChACE2) from Space Physics Laboratory (SPL),
    Thiruvananthapuram to carry out a detailed study of the lunar exosphere.
5. Terrain Mapping Camera2 (TMC2) from SAC, Ahmedabad for preparing a
    three-dimensional map essential for studying the lunar mineralogy and geology.

The two scientific payloads on Chandrayaan-2 rover are:

1. Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscope (LIBS) from Laboratory for Electro Optic
   Systems (LEOS), Bangalore.
2. Alpha Particle Induced X ray Spectroscope (APIXS) from PRL, Ahmedabad.

Both the instruments are expected to carry out elemental analysis of the lunar surface near the landing site.

Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft weighs about 2,650 kg at lift-off of which the orbiter weight is about 1,400 kg and lander weight is about 1,250 kg. Development of the subsystems of the orbiter and the rover is in progress at ISRO centres in Bangalore, Thiruvananthapuram and Ahmedabad.

Source. (http://www.isro.org/pressrelease/scripts/pressreleasein.aspx?Aug30_2010)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: neilh on 08/31/2010 02:31 am
It'll be quite interesting to see what lands on the Moon first: Chandrayaan-2 or one of the Google Lunar X Prize contestants.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Space Pete on 08/31/2010 03:49 pm
Aviation Week: "Russia To Test Chandrayaan-2 Lander Next Year". (http://www.aviationnow.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=space&id=news/asd/2010/08/31/10.xml&headline=Russia%20To%20Test%20Chandrayaan-2%20Lander%20Next%20Year)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Space Pete on 09/02/2010 06:45 pm
Chandrayaan-2 to get closer to moon. (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/Chandrayaan-2-to-get-closer-to-moon/articleshow/6478360.cms)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Space Pete on 09/05/2010 03:50 pm
The Times of India: "'We're launching Chandrayaan-2 for a total coverage of the moon'". (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/opinion/interviews/Were-launching-Chandrayaan-2-for-a-total-coverage-of-the-moon/articleshow/6501413.cms)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Space Pete on 09/07/2010 12:12 pm
Chandrayaan-2 will try out new ideas, technologies: ISRO. (http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_chandrayaan-2-will-try-out-new-ideas-technologies-isro_1434644)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: savuporo on 10/09/2010 08:25 pm
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/indian-chandrayaan2-moon-mission-101009.html

Quote
The probe is slated to launch in 2013, long after China's current Chang'e 2 moon mission ends.
China launched the Chang'e 2 probe on Oct. 1. It reached the moon Wednesday (Oct. 5).
India, meanwhile, approved plans for its Chandrayaan 2 mission in August. But unlike China's new probe, which is an orbiter, Chandrayaan 2 actually includes three vehicles: an orbiter, lander and rover, the Indian Space Research Organisation said.

Race back to the lunar surface is on. Change'3 is scheduled to land around late 2012.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Salo on 07/13/2011 12:48 pm
http://www.livemint.com/2011/07/08213841/K-Radhakrishnan--Flight-stage.html?h=B
Quote
Does it mean all major missions till Chandrayaan-2 will only use indigenous engines? Since the Russian engine has to be examined, will Chandrayaan-2 be delayed?

Yes, it has to be tested on indigenous cryogenic engines, and we’ll only use our engines for future launches, but that is not why there will be a delay. Historically, the Chandrayaan missions are a joint Indo-Soviet mission. The agreement was that the lander [that will descend on the moon] and the (lunar) rover (a robot vehicle) would be provided by the Russians. We wanted to put a smaller rover; it’s something new that we are developing. However, in Russia there was a rethink. They decided they’ll only develop the lander and some instruments related to it. That means India would have to make a bigger rover, a decision taken almost a year ago. There are also preliminary design reviews to be undertaken this year to select which instruments are to be carried onboard the mission. So it’s not only GSLV (engines); there are other reasons for the delay.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Salo on 09/09/2012 11:43 am
Russian sources say that the failure of the Phobos-Grunt mission will impact the Chandrayaan-2 mission, delaying it by 3 years:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article2854134.ece

This is because technologies and systems used in Phobos-Grunt are also present in the Russian lander which is to be used for the Chandrayaan-2 mission, and these will have to be subjected to review.

The Chandrayaan-2 mission was originally scheduled for launch in 2013, but was facing delays due to the 2 consecutive failures of the GSLV. The mission is now expected to be delayed until 2016, due to the failure of Phobos-Grunt.

Here's an image of the prototype Chandrayaan-2 lunar rover being developed at IIT-Kanpur:

http://lunarnetworks.blogspot.com/2010/08/chandrayaan-2-rover-prototype.html
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Salo on 09/09/2012 11:44 am
 On Chandrayaan 2, K. Radhakrishnan said the Indo-Russian Joint Venture on a GSLV launch vehicle would be on an Indian rover and Russian landing station. But there could be some delay in the latter as there was a ‘major’ review of Russian space programme following a recent failed mission.

“The orbiter is in very good shape (and the launch could be) possibly by 2014. When exactly the landing module is made available is to be seen but we are ready for 2014,” K. Radhakrishnan, flanked by ISRO’s top scientists said at a press conference here.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/article3877463.ece
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/10/2013 07:09 pm
Chandrayaan-2 delayed to 2017 as per this presentation, Moon Exploration Lunar polar sample return, ESA thematic information day, BELSPO, 3 July 2012.

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: GClark on 01/11/2013 12:04 am
IIRC Luna-Resurs (Lander/Rover) and Chandrayaan 2 (Orbiter) are now separate missions.  ISRO can launch Chandrayaan 2 whenever they are ready to.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/11/2013 03:00 am
Initially,the mission consisted of indian orbiter and russian lander + rover. Later, it was indian orbiter + mini-rover and russian lander. I think this is still the case. The slides that I provided is from july 2012 and  L-R clearly mentions India in the bracket. This slide is fron Jan 2011



Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: GClark on 01/11/2013 09:02 am
According to Anatoly Zak, Luna-Resurs was split up during the post-Fobos-Grunt re-evaluations.  AIUI, the current plan is to launch Luna-Resurs sometime in 2017 (depending on how well Luna-Glob 1 & 2 do) on a Soyuz 2-1b w/Fregat.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Blackstar on 01/20/2013 01:02 am
I am writing an article about this and am trying to get it right.

Is the Indian orbiter and lander scheduled for Luna Resource, now in 2017? Is India involved in Luna Glob in any way?

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: GClark on 01/20/2013 05:54 am
AIUI and drawing heavily from Anatoly Zak, the current plan is for Luna-Resurs to be an enlarged version of the Luna-Glob lander.  It will carry the ISRO rover and be launched on a Soyuz 2.1B-Fregat in 2017, assuming there are no problems with the Luna-Glob lander in 2015 (or so).

I don't recall any involvement by ISRO in the Luna-Glob lander or orbiter.

Chandrayaan 2 can be launched whenever ISRO feels like it.  IIRC ISRO have said they want two successful launches of the GSLV Mk.2 first, so 2014 sometime?

Feel free to correct me here...
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/22/2013 03:40 am
Chandrayaan-2: India to go it alone

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/chandrayaan2-india-to-go-it-alone/article4329844.ece

following the failure in December 2011 of Roskosmos’ Phobos-Grunt mission, there was a delay in the construction of the Russian lander. Due to this, as well as financial problems, the Russian agency apparently expressed its inability provide the lander to meet even the revised time frame of 2015 for the Chandrayaan-2 launch.

Dr. Murty stated that the cancellation of the Russian lander also meant that mission profile had to be marginally changed. The design of the indigenous lander and the preliminary configuration study was completed by the Space Applications Centre (SAC), Ahmedabad, he said.

Chandrayaan-2 will have five primary payloads on the orbiter. In addition, the rover too will carry two additional instruments. Chandrayaan-2 will be launched by a GSLV powered by an indigenous cryogenic engine.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Blackstar on 01/22/2013 03:45 am
Thank you. That's the kind of information I was looking for.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 01/22/2013 05:16 pm
Well, waitasec - here's something else:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/india-to-go-solo-on-second-lunar-mission/articleshow/18127272.cms

Quote
AHMEDABAD: India has decided on its second journey to the moon—Chandrayaan-2—without Russian participation. The tentative date for lift-off is 2015 from the Sriharikota facility. This was announced by space scientist S V S Murty of the Ahmedabad-based Physical Research Laboratory's (PRL) planetary exploration group during a conference on Monday.

The original mission envisaged the nearly Rs 425-crore Chandrayaan-2 having an indigenous rocket and a rover with a Russian lander. But Murty said, "The Russian lander is being replaced by an indigenous lunar lander." The decision comes after the failure of a Russian space mission, Phobos-Grunt in January 2012, which was supposed to test the lander.

Murthy said that the replacement of the Russian lander with an indigenous one would call for a change in the mission profile as well. The lander is being designed and developed by the Space Applications Centre (SAC) in Ahmedabad. Its preliminary configuration study has been completed.

The orbiter will have five payloads, while the six-wheeled rover has two. The orbiter will operate from an altitude of 200 km above the moon's surface. "Chandrayaan-2 will carry out an intensive investigation of a localized area of the moon having high scientific value," he said.

The rocket will be the three-stage Geo Synchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle powered by an indigenous cryogenic engine. All the payloads of Chandrayaan-2 are indigenous in contrast to Chandrayaan-1 which had six foreign payloads and five from India.

Now this seems quite interesting. I'd really like to see what an Indian-designed lunar lander would look like. And could this become the basis for any concept designs for a larger manned lander?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Blackstar on 01/22/2013 06:03 pm
I get a dead link.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 01/22/2013 06:13 pm
Okay, try this one instead:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-to-go-solo-on-second-lunar-mission/articleshow/18124826.cms


Here's also another link from Nature.com:

http://blogs.nature.com/news/2013/01/india-may-go-to-the-moon-alone.html

Quote
Designing and building the lander and the rover will surely take time, admits Goswami. Moreover, ISRO has yet to certify the rocket to be used in this mission, which is expected to make its first test flight next month after two successive failures in 2010. The vehicle must make at least two successful flights before it can be trusted for launching Chandrayaan-2, says Goswami.

Hey Antriksh, any way you can get a pic of the ISRO lander design? I'd really love to know what it looks like.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Kryten on 01/22/2013 06:17 pm
 While trying to find a working link for that article, I found this;

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/chandrayaan-2-will-be-indo-russia-mission-isro-lab-director/articleshow/18136814.cms

Quote
AHMEDABAD: India's second lunar mission will be undertaken with Russian participation though it has got delayed, a top official of an ISRO lab said today amidst reports that 'Chandrayaan 2' will be a solo mission.

Chandrayaan 2, an Indo-Russian joint project, is going ahead but it has got delayed, Physical Research Laboratory (PRL) Director J N Goswami said here.

Ahmedabad-based PRL is part of Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).

"The Indo-Russian mission is going ahead. The project has got delayed. Currently, we are whole-heartedly working for the Mars project scheduled for November. The moon mission, for the time being, has got delayed," Goswami told PTI.

Roskomos, Russia's space agency, and ISRO had signed an agreement on November 12, 2007. Under the pact, Roskomos had assumed the vital responsibility of providing both the orbiter and the rover, while its Indian counterpart was to design and build the lander for the ambitious mission.

"The failure of Roskosmos Phobos-Grunt mission (in December 2011) has, for the time-being, delayed the moon mission," he said, adding the construction of lander for the combined mission has been delayed.

Chandrayaan 2 will have five primary payloads on the orbiter, two of which will be improvements on instruments that were onboard Chandrayaan 1, launched in October, 2008.

Also, the rover will carry two additional instruments. Chandrayaan 2, originally scheduled in 2015, will be launched by a GSLV-powered by an indigenous cryogenic engine.

Reports had appeared in a section of media quoting a scientist of PRL S V S Murty as saying India will go it alone in the Chandrayaan 2 mission. Despite repeated efforts, he was not available for comments on the issue.

PRL is involved in designing indigenous payloads for Chandrayaan 2.
So it looks like there's some indecision at ISRO with regards to this.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/22/2013 07:57 pm
Okay, try this one instead:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-to-go-solo-on-second-lunar-mission/articleshow/18124826.cms


Here's also another link from Nature.com:

http://blogs.nature.com/news/2013/01/india-may-go-to-the-moon-alone.html

Quote
Designing and building the lander and the rover will surely take time, admits Goswami. Moreover, ISRO has yet to certify the rocket to be used in this mission, which is expected to make its first test flight next month after two successive failures in 2010. The vehicle must make at least two successful flights before it can be trusted for launching Chandrayaan-2, says Goswami.

Hey Antriksh, any way you can get a pic of the ISRO lander design? I'd really love to know what it looks like.

We will have to wait for that as the design work on lunar soft lander just started in 2012. I thought that it was for future missions and not meant for Chandrayaan-2, but it seems they are considering chandrayaan-2 also.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Blackstar on 01/22/2013 08:14 pm
Hey Antriksh, any way you can get a pic of the ISRO lander design? I'd really love to know what it looks like.

Probably a little too early for that. But try to imagine something with legs...
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Stan Black on 01/22/2013 08:35 pm
Hey Antriksh, any way you can get a pic of the ISRO lander design? I'd really love to know what it looks like.

Probably a little too early for that. But try to imagine something with legs...

Not airbags then?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Blackstar on 01/23/2013 03:28 am


Not airbags then?

Would you want to use airbags in such low gravity?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/23/2013 03:41 am
Hey Antriksh, any way you can get a pic of the ISRO lander design? I'd really love to know what it looks like.

Probably a little too early for that. But try to imagine something with legs...

Not airbags then?

For Indian lander, it would be a powered decent using one of the following strategies that are under study

Soft landing on Moon
1) by initiating the powered braking from the lunar parking orbit itself and directly landing.
2) by initiating powered braking from an intermediate orbit and directly landing.
3) by splitting the powered braking into two phases:
(a) powered horizontal braking phase that ends at a low altitude with a small vertical velocity and a zero horizontal velocity (b) a vertical descent phase ensuring the required touchdown velocity.

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: GClark on 01/23/2013 04:33 am


Not airbags then?

Would you want to use airbags in such low gravity?

Surely you're not forgetting the E-6 landers?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: seshagirib on 01/23/2013 05:19 pm
Hey Antriksh, any way you can get a pic of the ISRO lander design? I'd really love to know what it looks like.

Probably a little too early for that. But try to imagine something with legs...

Not airbags then?

For Indian lander, it would be a powered decent using one of the following strategies that are under study

Soft landing on Moon
1) by initiating the powered braking from the lunar parking orbit itself and directly landing.
2) by initiating powered braking from an intermediate orbit and directly landing.
3) by splitting the powered braking into two phases:
(a) powered horizontal braking phase that ends at a low altitude with a small vertical velocity and a zero horizontal velocity (b) a vertical descent phase ensuring the required touchdown velocity.



Is it possible to soft land direct on the moon ( without entering any lunar orbit) ?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: plutogno on 01/23/2013 05:51 pm
Is it possible to soft land direct on the moon ( without entering any lunar orbit) ?

yes. the early Soviet probes as well as the Surveyors did so
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/23/2013 07:02 pm
Hey Antriksh, any way you can get a pic of the ISRO lander design? I'd really love to know what it looks like.

Probably a little too early for that. But try to imagine something with legs...

Not airbags then?

For Indian lander, it would be a powered decent using one of the following strategies that are under study

Soft landing on Moon
1) by initiating the powered braking from the lunar parking orbit itself and directly landing.
2) by initiating powered braking from an intermediate orbit and directly landing.
3) by splitting the powered braking into two phases:
(a) powered horizontal braking phase that ends at a low altitude with a small vertical velocity and a zero horizontal velocity (b) a vertical descent phase ensuring the required touchdown velocity.



Is it possible to soft land direct on the moon ( without entering any lunar orbit) ?

Yes its called direct descent and involves midcourse correction in the trans lunar trajectory to follow a direct impact trajectory.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: seshagirib on 01/25/2013 05:13 pm
^ Then, why is "direct descent" not an option, under consideration for the Indian Mission?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: seshagirib on 01/25/2013 05:16 pm


Not airbags then?

Would you want to use airbags in such low gravity?

Did not follow, what is the worry here? Bounce back into space?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/25/2013 10:43 pm
^ Then, why is "direct descent" not an option, under consideration for the Indian Mission?

because mission involves orbiter and lander.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 03/12/2013 12:58 am
So to clarify - originally the plan was to launch an orbiter, lander (Russian built) and a small rover on the same Indian rocket. Now the Moon surface part is delayed to at least 2017-8 (will it switch to a Russian rocket) and the orbiter now is still planned in 2015-6. Is that correct? Would the payloads (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/luna_resurs.html (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/luna_resurs.html)) be changed (even added to both spacecrafts)?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Blackstar on 03/12/2013 01:11 am
I don't think the Russian lander was ever supposed to be launched on an Indian rocket.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 03/12/2013 01:25 am
I don't think the Russian lander was ever supposed to be launched on an Indian rocket.

Check out the article by Anatoly Zak at the link I gave.  There's another all-Russian lander and orbiter mission before it (Luna-Glob, now also split up into two missions (http://www.russianspaceweb.com/luna_glob.html)), perhaps you have confused with it (earlier reports were rather confusing).

Apparently the plan now looks like this:

2015 - Luna-Glob-Lander
2016 - Luna-Glob-Orbiter
2016 - Chandrayaan-2-Orbiter
2017 - Luna-Resurs / Chandrayaan-2-Rover

Maybe others here can confirm it?

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: GClark on 03/12/2013 05:01 am
I may be totally off-base here, but I have received the impression from Mr Zaks' site and some presentations made by Russian sources recently that the Indian rover is no longer part of Luna-Resurs at all.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 03/12/2013 05:20 am
I may be totally off-base here, but I have received the impression from Mr Zaks' site and some presentations made by Russian sources recently that the Indian rover is no longer part of Luna-Resurs at all.


This was the response from Lavochkin general director Viktor Khartov back in February in an interview: (http://www.militarynews.ru/excl.asp?ex=158)

Quote
- The project "Luna-Resurs" was planned to implement jointly with India. Has anything changed recently?

- We sent several requests to the Indian side that we have to change the concept of the lunar program, but the response from them has not yet been received. When they have some kind of response to our proposals, then our cooperation will continue.

So the ball is in the Indian's hands, and from the conflicting Indian news reports it looks like that they have yet to decide whether or not to leave the mission and do the whole landing mission by their own (I think the orbiter part has already been separated from the Russian side).
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 03/30/2013 04:44 am
update:

Completed sub-system level PDRs for Chandrayaan-2 and the rover proto model is under realization. Six wheel rover configuration is being worked out. The Indigenous lander development proposal is finalized;
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 06/28/2013 07:24 pm
Chandrayaan-2 Rover prototype design

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/02/2013 12:23 am
I'm confused, if the rover design was finalized, wouldn't it mean that prototyping has already been done?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 07/02/2013 02:03 am
Bleh, I think antriksh meant that the rover design is still being worked out.

The proposed Chandrayaan-2 mission has gone through all sorts of changes and twists and turns since it was first conceived. Originally, it was going to be landed on a Russian lander, but now it looks like ISRO will have to make the lander too. Oh well, should be a good learning exercise.

I really wonder why all rovers have 6 wheels, though. It's always seemed like overkill to me, since they never get pushed to their limits. I feel like it should always just be 4 wheels, but with extra motors for redundancy.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 07/02/2013 02:41 am
I'm confused, if the rover design was finalized, wouldn't it mean that prototyping has already been done?

Rover design is more or less finalized now, bread board design done, different sub-systems under development.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 07/02/2013 02:43 am
Bleh, I think antriksh meant that the rover design is still being worked out.

The proposed Chandrayaan-2 mission has gone through all sorts of changes and twists and turns since it was first conceived. Originally, it was going to be landed on a Russian lander, but now it looks like ISRO will have to make the lander too. Oh well, should be a good learning exercise.

I really wonder why all rovers have 6 wheels, though. It's always seemed like overkill to me, since they never get pushed to their limits. I feel like it should always just be 4 wheels, but with extra motors for redundancy.

ISRO had chosen two wheel rover, but now they have included 2 extra wheels. Initial rover design
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 07/02/2013 02:48 am
CH-2 Orbiter + Lander + Rover
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/02/2013 03:17 am
Bleh, I think antriksh meant that the rover design is still being worked out.

The proposed Chandrayaan-2 mission has gone through all sorts of changes and twists and turns since it was first conceived. Originally, it was going to be landed on a Russian lander, but now it looks like ISRO will have to make the lander too. Oh well, should be a good learning exercise.

I really wonder why all rovers have 6 wheels, though. It's always seemed like overkill to me, since they never get pushed to their limits. I feel like it should always just be 4 wheels, but with extra motors for redundancy.

Thanks. Yeah, 4 wheels would seem easier and better for a few reasons, no?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/02/2013 03:17 am
ISRO had chosen two wheel rover, but now they have included 2 extra wheels. Initial rover design

Two wheels!? Haha seems a little less than what sanman was suggesting haha:). Is there a picture for the two wheel rover?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 07/02/2013 03:28 am
ISRO had chosen two wheel rover, but now they have included 2 extra wheels. Initial rover design

Two wheels!? Haha seems a little less than what sanman was suggesting haha:). Is there a picture for the two wheel rover?


sorry I meant two pairs of wheels  ;D
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/02/2013 03:37 am
sorry I meant two pairs of wheels  ;D

Haha I couldn't understand how that would work haha:D.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 07/02/2013 03:42 am
Note that in the rover slide post by antriksh the mention of the LIBS (Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscope). So basically that's supposed to be an Indian-made version of the LIBS system used on Curiosity.

Back when Chandrayaan-2 mission was first being proposed, I went and spammed email boxes and web forums with posts about the Curiosity ChemCam, including some Youtube vids posted here on NSF. Clearly the same advantages provided by this instrumentation on a Mars rover would also benefit a lunar rover. If anything, the even stronger lunar vacuum would further reduce laser attenuation and improve range as compared to Mars.

I like to think maybe somebody somewhere read what I had to say.   ;D
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/02/2013 03:59 am
Note that in the rover slide post by antriksh the mention of the LIBS (Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscope). So basically that's supposed to be an Indian-made version of the LIBS system used on Curiosity.

Back when Chandrayaan-2 mission was first being proposed, I went and spammed email boxes and web forums with posts about the Curiosity ChemCam, including some Youtube vids posted here on NSF. Clearly the same advantages provided by this instrumentation on a Mars rover would also benefit a lunar rover. If anything, the even stronger lunar vacuum would further reduce laser attenuation and improve range as compared to Mars.

I like to think maybe somebody somewhere read what I had to say.   ;D

Seems like somebody did! It's a great payload to be flying...
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: AJA on 07/02/2013 12:12 pm
I think Antriksh mentioned that the LANDER design was finalised.

Also, Sanman, I found this MS thesis which digs around the question of number of wheels. Page 29. http://c3p0.ou.edu/IRL/Theses/Roman-MS.pdf
But here's my question: if the benefit is simpler design, why not three wheels? 4 wheels seem intuitively more stable because we think in terms of boxes. But, given the same ortho-centre vertex distance, and CG height off the ground - how about a tetrahedral rover? Solar panels on all slanted surfaces that don't accumulate as much dust, reduced surface area/volume contributing to better thermal management... :P In any case I think the wheel walking mode offered by the rocker bogie suspension, and the reduction of surface pressure wins 6-wheelers the contest.[1]

I know LIBS at locally reduced pressures is also more sensitive, allowing faster, and greater expansion of the plasma - hastening the transition from a continuous thermal spectrum to an atomic one, and increasing spatial resolution. But won't global lack of pressure, i.e. no retarding force of an atmosphere, allow this plasma to continue expanding for a much longer time? That'd mean you need a larger aperture, and a longer delay between continuum and elemental emission, or worse: a confounding overlap. The lack of "contaminant" species in the atmosphere which are also emitting, may improve S/N, but I think it'll still be challenging doing it on the moon.[1]


[1] In other words, lots of trade-offs - for all things :D

As an aside, what e-mail inboxes did you spam? I'll join you the next time round.. I didn't know ISRO replies to e-mails lol
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 08/04/2013 04:31 am
The Chandrayaan-2 mission seems to be languishing due to the non-availability of the Russian lander:

http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/1868557/report-india-s-second-moon-mission-chandrayaan-2-stuck-in-limbo
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: chota on 08/14/2013 01:50 pm
Looks like the lander will now be Indian design

"..an integrated programmatic review on Chandrayaan-2 (chaired by Prof U R Rao) was carried out to critically assess our capability to design and deploy a landing craft in a short time frame. The integrated review of Chandrayaan-2, recommended that India could realize the Lander module in the next few years. Currently the spacecraft is being reconfigured for the proposed Indian Rover and Lander modules.."

http://netindian.in/news/2013/08/14/00025558/lunar-mission-chandrayaan-2-be-solo-indian-effort-govt

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: K210 on 08/14/2013 02:24 pm
Chandraayan-2 is going to be a full indian built mission, source: http://netindian.in/news/2013/08/14/00025558/lunar-mission-chandrayaan-2-be-solo-indian-effort-govt
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 08/14/2013 09:49 pm
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/india-to-go-alone-with-chandrayaan-2/article5022717.ece

Personally, I feel that with the inevitable delays, it would be better for India to instead use GSLV-Mk3 for the next mission to the Moon. This will increase the payload envelope, and allow for a more substantive payload to be sent, with appropriately increased mission scope.

Let the Mars Orbiter Mission be the last PSLV to send a payload beyond Earth orbit for ISRO. All further missions beyond the Earth should at least use GSLV-Mk3, or whatever more powerful successors show up.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: K210 on 08/18/2013 06:46 am
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/india-to-go-alone-with-chandrayaan-2/article5022717.ece

Personally, I feel that with the inevitable delays, it would be better for India to instead use GSLV-Mk3 for the next mission to the Moon. This will increase the payload envelope, and allow for a more substantive payload to be sent, with appropriately increased mission scope.

Let the Mars Orbiter Mission be the last PSLV to send a payload beyond Earth orbit for ISRO. All further missions beyond the Earth should at least use GSLV-Mk3, or whatever more powerful successors show up.

I dont think its a good idea to start using GSLV-3 for such ambitious missions right off the bat, the true nature of a rocket isn't revealed until it has had a couple of launches. The GSLV's first couple of launches were successful but after that it's performance went down the drain. If the test flight of GSLV-2 is successful on monday it would make it the ideal choice to ferry a follow on mars mission.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: docmordrid on 08/18/2013 02:49 pm
Space News story -

http://www.spacenews.com/article/civil-space/36795india-drops-russia-from-chandrayaan-2-lunar-mission
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 08/18/2013 05:41 pm
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/india-to-go-alone-with-chandrayaan-2/article5022717.ece

Personally, I feel that with the inevitable delays, it would be better for India to instead use GSLV-Mk3 for the next mission to the Moon. This will increase the payload envelope, and allow for a more substantive payload to be sent, with appropriately increased mission scope.

Let the Mars Orbiter Mission be the last PSLV to send a payload beyond Earth orbit for ISRO. All further missions beyond the Earth should at least use GSLV-Mk3, or whatever more powerful successors show up.

I dont think its a good idea to start using GSLV-3 for such ambitious missions right off the bat, the true nature of a rocket isn't revealed until it has had a couple of launches. The GSLV's first couple of launches were successful but after that it's performance went down the drain. If the test flight of GSLV-2 is successful on monday it would make it the ideal choice to ferry a follow on mars mission.

Well, my point is that by the time the rest of Chandrayaan-2 hardware is developed and ready, the GSLV-Mk3 would have already had adequate number of flights by then.

IMHO, the development of a lander will be no small trivial task, and that will delay a Chandrayaan-2 mission significantly, during which time GSLV-Mk3 would be proving itself on other flights.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: K210 on 08/19/2013 03:17 am
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/india-to-go-alone-with-chandrayaan-2/article5022717.ece

Personally, I feel that with the inevitable delays, it would be better for India to instead use GSLV-Mk3 for the next mission to the Moon. This will increase the payload envelope, and allow for a more substantive payload to be sent, with appropriately increased mission scope.

Let the Mars Orbiter Mission be the last PSLV to send a payload beyond Earth orbit for ISRO. All further missions beyond the Earth should at least use GSLV-Mk3, or whatever more powerful successors show up.

I dont think its a good idea to start using GSLV-3 for such ambitious missions right off the bat, the true nature of a rocket isn't revealed until it has had a couple of launches. The GSLV's first couple of launches were successful but after that it's performance went down the drain. If the test flight of GSLV-2 is successful on monday it would make it the ideal choice to ferry a follow on mars mission.

Well, my point is that by the time the rest of Chandrayaan-2 hardware is developed and ready, the GSLV-Mk3 would have already had adequate number of flights by then.

IMHO, the development of a lander will be no small trivial task, and that will delay a Chandrayaan-2 mission significantly, during which time GSLV-Mk3 would be proving itself on other flights.


Yes but waiting for GSLV MK-3 would delay Chandraayan-2 to at least 2019-2020, if GSLV MK-2 is used the mission could be launched in 2016-2017.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: ss1_3 on 10/30/2013 04:08 pm
Looks like Chandrayaan-2 is falling short of funds:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/isro-awaiting-government-nod-for-more-funds-for-chandrayaan-2/articleshow/24946130.cms

Guess a lot will depend on how Mars mission fares in coming time.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Star One on 10/30/2013 05:31 pm

Looks like Chandrayaan-2 is falling short of funds:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/isro-awaiting-government-nod-for-more-funds-for-chandrayaan-2/articleshow/24946130.cms

Guess a lot will depend on how Mars mission fares in coming time.

I thought maybe that the second ISRO Mars mission had taken precedence over this? 
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: AJA on 10/31/2013 03:36 am

Looks like Chandrayaan-2 is falling short of funds:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/isro-awaiting-government-nod-for-more-funds-for-chandrayaan-2/articleshow/24946130.cms

Guess a lot will depend on how Mars mission fares in coming time.

I thought maybe that the second ISRO Mars mission had taken precedence over this? 

This is the first I'm hearing of a second ISRO Mars mission. It's not there on the Indian launch schedule sticky thread - which goes so far as to manifest a manned spaceflight for sometime after 2020 - so I don't think ISRO's ever mentioned it. Secondly, the linked article offers more probable proximate causes for the fence straddling, regarding the budget - viz. the change of mission architecture, due to problems with the Russian lander, with ISRO now deciding to develop their own; and the need for a functioning GSLV - whose development has been pushed back by its own problems.

So, I wouldn't say this request is going anywhere for some time. I have to make a hand-waving prognostication, I'm going with status quo ante petitio, for close to another year from now....

Given that we're going to have parliamentary elections - latest by (almost certainly NET) mid-2014 (the expiry of the nominal term of five years for the current government), and that Chandrayaan-2 will probably happen during the tenure of the next government (anti-incumbency being the current national pastime), you can probably also make the cynics' argument that no major funding decisions will be taken until next year: a successful mission will be claimed by the government of the time, but a failure will be attributed to hasty decisions of the previous government as ill prioritised spending.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: ss1_3 on 10/31/2013 03:23 pm
This is the first I'm hearing of a second ISRO Mars mission. It's not there on the Indian launch schedule sticky thread - which goes so far as to manifest a manned spaceflight for sometime after 2020 - so I don't think ISRO's ever mentioned it.
There seems to be a followup mission on the cards (2018!!). Here (towards the end):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60JKhlqy5Bg
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: akula2 on 11/07/2013 09:58 am
The Chandrayaan-2 mission seems to be languishing due to the non-availability of the Russian lander:

http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/1868557/report-india-s-second-moon-mission-chandrayaan-2-stuck-in-limbo (http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/1868557/report-india-s-second-moon-mission-chandrayaan-2-stuck-in-limbo)
Non-availability? I really doubt that. I suspect it got more to do with:

a) Design clash
b) Cost-sharing %
c) Too many changes to the initially agreed Lander design?

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Star One on 11/07/2013 01:29 pm

This is the first I'm hearing of a second ISRO Mars mission. It's not there on the Indian launch schedule sticky thread - which goes so far as to manifest a manned spaceflight for sometime after 2020 - so I don't think ISRO's ever mentioned it.
There seems to be a followup mission on the cards (2018!!). Here (towards the end):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60JKhlqy5Bg

Thanks for that glad I didn't imagine hearing about that.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 11/22/2013 02:16 pm
An update about Chandrayaan-2:
Quote
"In the meanwhile, we found that it was feasible to develop a lander indigenously too, within three years, so Chandrayaan-2 is possible by 2016. The rover is already developed, the lander can be readied in time. All we need is the green signal from the government and at least two successful GSLV flights,'' the chairman said. “It was not planned as a completely indigenous mission, but it may turn out that way. Chandrayaan-2 will therefore be much more ambitious than its original aim.''

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?programId=1073754900&contentId=15507698
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Star One on 11/22/2013 06:55 pm

An update about Chandrayaan-2:
Quote
"In the meanwhile, we found that it was feasible to develop a lander indigenously too, within three years, so Chandrayaan-2 is possible by 2016. The rover is already developed, the lander can be readied in time. All we need is the green signal from the government and at least two successful GSLV flights,'' the chairman said. “It was not planned as a completely indigenous mission, but it may turn out that way. Chandrayaan-2 will therefore be much more ambitious than its original aim.''

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?programId=1073754900&contentId=15507698

Hope they do get the green light on this on the timescale their hoping for.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: johnxx9 on 12/01/2013 07:04 am
An update about Chandrayaan-2:
Quote
"In the meanwhile, we found that it was feasible to develop a lander indigenously too, within three years, so Chandrayaan-2 is possible by 2016. The rover is already developed, the lander can be readied in time. All we need is the green signal from the government and at least two successful GSLV flights,'' the chairman said. “It was not planned as a completely indigenous mission, but it may turn out that way. Chandrayaan-2 will therefore be much more ambitious than its original aim.''

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?programId=1073754900&contentId=15507698

I'm pretty certain the required funds would be provided in the next years budget.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Star One on 12/01/2013 09:01 am

An update about Chandrayaan-2:
Quote
"In the meanwhile, we found that it was feasible to develop a lander indigenously too, within three years, so Chandrayaan-2 is possible by 2016. The rover is already developed, the lander can be readied in time. All we need is the green signal from the government and at least two successful GSLV flights,'' the chairman said. “It was not planned as a completely indigenous mission, but it may turn out that way. Chandrayaan-2 will therefore be much more ambitious than its original aim.''

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?programId=1073754900&contentId=15507698

I'm pretty certain the required funds would be provided in the next years budget.

If that's the case they should then be able to hit the 2016 target, providing the GSLV is proven by then?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: johnxx9 on 12/01/2013 02:53 pm

An update about Chandrayaan-2:
Quote
"In the meanwhile, we found that it was feasible to develop a lander indigenously too, within three years, so Chandrayaan-2 is possible by 2016. The rover is already developed, the lander can be readied in time. All we need is the green signal from the government and at least two successful GSLV flights,'' the chairman said. “It was not planned as a completely indigenous mission, but it may turn out that way. Chandrayaan-2 will therefore be much more ambitious than its original aim.''

http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?programId=1073754900&contentId=15507698

I'm pretty certain the required funds would be provided in the next years budget.

If that's the case they should then be able to hit the 2016 target, providing the GSLV is proven by then?

The 3 year timeline was also in part to ensure that GSLV has a had a couple of successful launches behind it before it launches something this valuable. Again, it depends..ISRO needs to really deliver wrt the GSLV program. And also the lander design fabrication testing going well. The 2016 target indicates the shortest possible time for the launch of Chandrayaan-2 if everything goes as planned.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 01/10/2014 08:15 am
Chandrayaan-2 with orbiter, lander and rover by 2016:
Quote
The Indian Space Research Organization (Isro) is planning to launch India’s mission to the moon, Chandrayaan-2, by 2016, which would include an orbiter, lander and rover, an Isro spokesperson said on Friday.

Quote
“Chandrayaan-2 would be launched by a Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV) powered by an indigenously developed cryogenic engine,” said the Isro spokesperson.

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/H4xVWokiuokVqSQ4GUTzUN/Isro-to-send-orbiter-lander-and-rover-to-Moon-by-2016.html

Another article about the same press conference:
http://post.jagran.com/india-to-launch-chandrayaanii-by-2017-isro-1389340915
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 01/10/2014 04:06 pm
The 3 year timeline was also in part to ensure that GSLV has a had a couple of successful launches behind it before it launches something this valuable. Again, it depends..ISRO needs to really deliver wrt the GSLV program. And also the lander design fabrication testing going well. The 2016 target indicates the shortest possible time for the launch of Chandrayaan-2 if everything goes as planned.

From the latest pronouncements by ISRO, it seems more like the development of the lander is what's the main hurdle, rather than waiting for GSLV to be qualified.

Does anybody have any idea of what the Indian lander will be based on? Will it borrow from the Russian lander design, or will it be an all-original independent design? I'm assuming the former, since it's best to go with what works, but it's not clear how much Russian technology ISRO can get for this, or whether it's even seen as reliable following the Phobos-Grunt malfunction. What have the Chinese used?


Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 01/14/2014 02:13 pm
This is strange and strangely funny!
http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/isro-yet-to-pick-up-rover-built-by-iit-k-114011400882_1.html
Quote
ISRO had given a project to IIT Kanpur to develop a rover to be launched with Chandrayaan-II, which the university's scientists completed in 2010, but the space agency was yet to pick it up and make part payment to the institute, according to its professor.

Quote
When asked about the possible reasons for ISRO not accepting the rover, Venkatesh [Prof at IIT Kanpur] said Chandrayaan-II was set to be launched in 2017, which could be why ISRO was not showing any haste in acquiring it.

Quote
According to him, IIT-K spent Rs 29 lakh on the project.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/14/2014 03:00 pm
The 3 year timeline was also in part to ensure that GSLV has a had a couple of successful launches behind it before it launches something this valuable. Again, it depends..ISRO needs to really deliver wrt the GSLV program. And also the lander design fabrication testing going well. The 2016 target indicates the shortest possible time for the launch of Chandrayaan-2 if everything goes as planned.

From the latest pronouncements by ISRO, it seems more like the development of the lander is what's the main hurdle, rather than waiting for GSLV to be qualified.

Does anybody have any idea of what the Indian lander will be based on? Will it borrow from the Russian lander design, or will it be an all-original independent design? I'm assuming the former, since it's best to go with what works, but it's not clear how much Russian technology ISRO can get for this, or whether it's even seen as reliable following the Phobos-Grunt malfunction. What have the Chinese used?

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Star One on 01/14/2014 03:35 pm

This is strange and strangely funny!
http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/isro-yet-to-pick-up-rover-built-by-iit-k-114011400882_1.html
Quote
ISRO had given a project to IIT Kanpur to develop a rover to be launched with Chandrayaan-II, which the university's scientists completed in 2010, but the space agency was yet to pick it up and make part payment to the institute, according to its professor.

Quote
When asked about the possible reasons for ISRO not accepting the rover, Venkatesh [Prof at IIT Kanpur] said Chandrayaan-II was set to be launched in 2017, which could be why ISRO was not showing any haste in acquiring it.

Quote
According to him, IIT-K spent Rs 29 lakh on the project.

How odd. So just have an unused Mars Rover lying about the place then?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/14/2014 04:17 pm
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/-cg4cI5Q195A/SyKdyzFrXKI/AAAAAAAAADc/bJVLZPzuEPE/s640/Chan2.png)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: AJA on 01/14/2014 07:03 pm

http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/isro-yet-to-pick-up-rover-built-by-iit-k-114011400882_1.html (http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/isro-yet-to-pick-up-rover-built-by-iit-k-114011400882_1.html)
How odd. So just have an unused Mars Rover lying about the place then?

Firstly, lunar, not Mars rover.
Secondly, some basic googling, sheds light.

1. The PI's Webpage at the IIT-K website.
I got this: http://home.iitk.ac.in/~adutta/4.htm (http://home.iitk.ac.in/~adutta/4.htm)

Quote from: Dr. Ashish Dutta
Traction control algorithm development and testing for Lunar Rover mobility system.
Funding: Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, ISRO, Trivandrum, Amount: 8 Lakhs  (2009 - 2010)
 
Lunar Rover development for testing of vision based navigation and traction control algorithms.
Funding: IIT Kanpur, Amount : Rs 30 Lakhs  (2009-2010)

2.  An IIT-K student magazine article detailing the work  (http://issuu.com/nerd_iitk/docs/v2n2/26)
The imaging and mapping system test setup uses a Logitech Webcam! :D I don't think they're flight qualified. The way they're going about mapping the terrain is interesting. Laser mapping, but not LIDAR. Wonder if they simply wanted to develop such a system, or if they did a trade-off analysis and found that the processing work required for this would've been lesser; perhaps this system's more autonomous and more robust; than one that performs image processing (and is perhaps trained on a limited data set)? Also wondering whether such a mapping system is envisioned with a dual purpose instrument in mind: could a LIBS laser (a la Curiosity) operate in a low power mapping mode, as well as a high-power science mode? Saving mass?

3. A post from this very thread showing a 6 wheeled prototype (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg951703#msg951703)

4. An Indian Express article, that also offers some more details (http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/three-iitkanpur-professors-chip-in-for-india-s-lunar-rover/522364/0)
Quote
Once the project is completed, we will test it on a prototype lunar rover at IIT-K and thereafter the technology will be forwarded to ISRO," added Venkatesh. The final testing and approval of all the components being developed by the IIT-K will be done by ISRO.
According to Potluri, of the six wheels of the rover, four can be driven and steered. The rest can only be driven.
"The six wheels will have 10 motors to manage the movement and steering of the lunar rover," he said, adding that the major challenge will be to bring a co-ordination between all the 10 motors.

--
So... there's no full-fledged rover gathering dust. But yeah, shizz like that does happen (http://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/1ujcmo/we_are_three_isro_scientists_here_to_answer_your/ceip069). Does anyone understand the logic behind a 3 year hiatus, once ISRO had started development; especially given that there's still so much work to be done before getting even a baseline design finalised. (This shouldn't really have been/be affected by schedule uncertainty).

But then again, the same thing can be said of IIT-K
Quote from: Business Standard article
The professor said his colleagues at the institute had realised that the project to build the rover, which would pick up samples from the Moon's surface and bring them back to Earth, would cost much more than Rs 7.5 lakh and had initially refused to take it up.

"However, the then IIT-K Director Sanjay Govind Dhande had insisted that the project would get the institute international fame and that IIT-K would pitch in with the money," he said.
So what happened? IIT-K achieve its international fame with other projects? They don't want Chandrayaan-2, anymore? :P

And before anyone asks: I don't think Chandrayaan-2 is designed to return samples. Atleast, I don't find anyone else saying that.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 01/14/2014 08:09 pm
Nah, sample return is Chandrayaan-3 -- not sure if they're waiting for that.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: chota on 01/18/2014 09:50 am
Rover Prototype
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 01/18/2014 01:17 pm
Yeah, I remember they even built some kind of lunar terrain chamber to test it in, too.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 01/25/2014 08:19 am
News just in today from China says its lunar rover 'Yutu' has experienced an 'abnormality'. As usual, it doesn't say much about what exactly is wrong, but mentions it has got something to do with the 'complicated lunar surface environment'.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=196205 (http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=196205)

Maybe something for ISRO to watch out for in Chandrayaan-2 mission, considering that they had an unforseen heating problem for Chandrayaan-1due to reflected radiation from lunar surface?

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 01/25/2014 10:56 pm
How sad - the article says "mechanical control abnormality" - so I'm wondering if it's that pesky lunar sand. I hope that sand didn't get wedged into crevices someplace, or cause the rover to get stuck like NASA's Spirit (MER-A).
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/26/2014 09:23 am
IITK Lunar Rover Proto. IITK was awarded to develop Lunar Rover development for testing of vision based navigation and traction control algorithms.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 01/28/2014 01:06 am
Very nice vids of the IIT-K rover.


---
Note: for those who can't play the FLV format, here's a page which tells you how:

http://atube-catcher.dsnetwb.com/video/How-Play-FLV-files-with-Windows-Media-Player.html

I followed the instructions, and everything worked fine. You could probably also just download VLC player, since that has every codec known to man.
---


Anyway, why are all those wires hanging off the front of the rover? Are things going to be that way for the final version?

How would this rover survive the cold temperatures of the lunar night? Is it supposed to have RTGs like China's does?

The Chinese rover seems to have suffered a problem with that infamously pesky lunar dust, which seems fine enough to get into every nook and cranny to gum up moving parts. How can this threat be addressed?

Maybe only Arthur C Clarke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fall_of_Moondust) knows...
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: AJA on 01/28/2014 02:08 am
Anyway, why are all those wires hanging off the front of the rover? Are things going to be that way for the final version?

It's an engineering test bed! Cut them some slack for the aesthetics? :D

The Chinese rover seems to have suffered a problem with that infamously pesky lunar dust ...

Are you guessing, or d'you have a source that says the problem was because of the dust? AFAIK, they haven't told us what the issue was. I think the only information we have thus far is that the solar panels designed to fold back and prevent the rover from radiating away all its heat - isn't folding back. Check the Chang'E 3 thread.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/28/2014 02:42 am

Anyway, why are all those wires hanging off the front of the rover? Are things going to be that way for the final version?

How would this rover survive the cold temperatures of the lunar night? Is it supposed to have RTGs like China's does?

The Chinese rover seems to have suffered a problem with that infamously pesky lunar dust, which seems fine enough to get into every nook and cranny to gum up moving parts. How can this threat be addressed?

Maybe only Arthur C Clarke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fall_of_Moondust) knows...

This is only an engineering prototype built by IITK to test the vision navigation and traction algorithms for lunar surface mobility. The R&D done by IITK will help ISRO in building the final versions of vision navigation and traction control subsystems of chandrayaan 2 lunar rover.

For thermal management of Lunar rover, I guess ISRO may use a system derived from the fluid circuits currently being developed for the crew module in the Human space program.

 

Basic info about IITK work on navigation and traction control algorithms:
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/28/2014 04:16 am
Some info on thermal management of Chandrayaan 2 Lunar Rover

Thermal design planned to be adopted for the rover includes:
1) thermal flap (TF),
2) radiator windows,
3) warm electronics box (WEB) inside which most of the subsystems will be housed and
4) two passive thermal management units (TMU).

Power system of the rover comprises of a double-sided deployable solar panel, special Li-ion battery and power electronics. Double-sided solar panel is populated with triple junction (TJ) solar cells, realized on a 10 mm thick Aluminium (Al) honeycomb substrate, with CFRP (carbon fibre reinforced plastic) and Kapton® face sheets on both sides. The Li-ion battery and power electronics cards are mounted inside the WEB whose temperatures are controlled.

The top side of the rover chassis is provided with a motorized thermal flap consisting of insulation blanket/structure, which is closed during lunar nights to conserve heat inside the WEB. The sides of the chassis is insulated using multilayer insulation (MLI) structure called WEB and two units of TMU (8 W each) are mounted on the rover chassis inside WEB. Inner side of rover chassis (25 mm thick Al honeycomb) is provided with a highly conductive and thin 0.3 mm Al face sheet for electrical grounding

http://www.discovery.org.in/PDF_Files/du_20130703.pdf (http://www.discovery.org.in/PDF_Files/du_20130703.pdf)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: AJA on 01/28/2014 05:32 am
http://www.discovery.org.in/PDF_Files/du_20130703.pdf (http://www.discovery.org.in/PDF_Files/du_20130703.pdf)
Thanks Antriksh.


So the planned landing site is near the South pole (88 degrees S)? Very very cool. Props to ISRO if they stick with it - they'll be aiming to touch down  farther from the lunar equator than any other mission, including all the impactors, except our own MIP from Chandrayaan-1! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_objects_on_the_Moon) For good reason too: the Aitken basin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole%E2%80%93Aitken_basin) is a prime target for lunar geology. It'd be awesome to have contact measurements (as opposed to remote sensing only).


Quote
Thus,
the Chandrayaan-2 Rover solar panel may be expected to see temperature of Teq = - 182.07374 degrees C during the long (20 days) lunar nights at the landing site. And the solar panel temperature saturates soon after ~ 17 hours of lunar nights entry.


Worst case temperature
Quote
The solar panel temperature during lunar night, in this case, can be shown as Teq = 84.85949 K = -188.14051 deg C


Unfortunately, the paper only does a basic radiative (conduction isolated from rest of rover) heat transfer analysis to calculate minimum temperature during lunar night, and doesn't say anything about what is expected to happen to the uninsulated solar panel materials at such temperatures. Anyone have any data on this? They mention that panels on GEO satellites reach -169.9 degrees C during the 72 minute eclipse. But this is way longer than that. They don't calculate the range of temperatures either (i.e max temperature the array's likely to see during lunar day) - but mention that the surface temperatures stay between -160 & -120 degrees C


Btw, don't know if it's been linked before, but here's the Chandrayaan-2 page on the VSSC website: http://isrohq.vssc.gov.in/isr0dem0v2/index.php/science/science-history/74-general/1010-chandrayaan-2 (http://isrohq.vssc.gov.in/isr0dem0v2/index.php/science/science-history/74-general/1010-chandrayaan-2)


Rover's carrying LIBS, and APXS; and orbiter will carry Large Area Soft X-Ray Spectrometer (CLASS) (How exactly did they arrive at the acronym? lol); Solar X-Ray monitor (XSM); L,S band SAR; IIRS, a Neutral Mass Spec.; and TMC-2.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: chota on 01/28/2014 06:25 am
4 wheel Rover Bread Board Model  developed by ISRO (Final model will have 6 wheels)

> Semi-Autonomous navigation and hazard avoidance capability
> Elemental analysis of the lunar surface using Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscope (LIBS) and Alpha Particle X-Ray Spectrometer (APXS) payloads
> Rover will be powered with a small solar panel
> Communicate to IDSN either through Lander Rover Communication System onboard the Lander or through the Orbiter Rover Communication System onboard the Orbiter

Photo Credit : ISRO
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/28/2014 07:33 am
CH2 LR 4 wheels design

Can any one guess the Antenna Type? I have never seen T shaped antenna on any planetary rovers
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 01/28/2014 08:01 am
Anyway, why are all those wires hanging off the front of the rover? Are things going to be that way for the final version?

It's an engineering test bed! Cut them some slack for the aesthetics? :D

Ah, I guess I thought that was the final product, or something.

I really hope they put more thought into the lunar dust problem.

Oh, and how are they going to tackle the ultra-low nighttime temperatures? Are they going to use RTGs as well?

Quote
The Chinese rover seems to have suffered a problem with that infamously pesky lunar dust ...

Are you guessing, or d'you have a source that says the problem was because of the dust? AFAIK, they haven't told us what the issue was. I think the only information we have thus far is that the solar panels designed to fold back and prevent the rover from radiating away all its heat - isn't folding back. Check the Chang'E 3 thread.

Sorry, I guess I should have linked to the article that I was getting my info from:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technology/2014/01/28/11/14/chinese-lunar-rover-cutely-broadcasts-own-death

Quote
Abrasive lunar dust is thought to be the cause of the rover's fatal breakdown.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: plutogno on 01/28/2014 08:15 am
Quote
Thus,
the Chandrayaan-2 Rover solar panel may be expected to see temperature of Teq = - 182.07374 degrees C

really?!? to the fifth decimal???
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: AJA on 01/28/2014 08:55 am
Can any one guess the Antenna Type? I have never seen T shaped antenna on any planetary rovers

Maybe they want to let the Rover receive and watch the new digital HD Doordarshan :P

Quote
Thus,
the Chandrayaan-2 Rover solar panel may be expected to see temperature of Teq = - 182.07374 degrees C

really?!? to the fifth decimal???

Hold on, maybe the numbers they used as inputs for the calculation were known to the tenth decimal :D But yeah, doesn't surprise me though... almost all students sleep through the lesson on significant figures. Maybe if they start using them in school exam marking schemes...


Oh, and how are they going to tackle the ultra-low nighttime temperatures? Are they going to use RTGs as well?
Does anyone have enough Plutonium at the moment? I guess they could try with some other nuclide though.


[/font]
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technology/2014/01/28/11/14/chinese-lunar-rover-cutely-broadcasts-own-death (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technology/2014/01/28/11/14/chinese-lunar-rover-cutely-broadcasts-own-death)


Ah. That sucks. If it is confirmed to be dust, then I guess the lander's UV telescope would be pretty vulnerable too. The rover does probably dredge up more by nature of its motion though.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/28/2014 08:59 am

Oh, and how are they going to tackle the ultra-low nighttime temperatures? Are they going to use RTGs as well?



Only If they can develop RTG on time, else they will use the old trusted active thermal management method of ISRO flex heater bank + rechargeable batteries + solar panels. 
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/28/2014 09:03 am
Can any one guess the Antenna Type? I have never seen T shaped antenna on any planetary rovers

Maybe they want to let the Rover receive and watch the new digital HD Doordarshan :P



That would be disaster for the rover health!  :'(

it seems to be a compact microstrip patch antenna not a T shaped antenna. Could be a dual/multi band patch antenna. Any rover which used microstrip patch antenna??
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 01/28/2014 09:28 am

Oh, and how are they going to tackle the ultra-low nighttime temperatures? Are they going to use RTGs as well?



Only If they can develop RTG on time, else they will use the old trusted active thermal management method of ISRO flex heater bank + rechargeable batteries + solar panels.

What about some kind of phase change material, which could provide some "thermal mass" to buffer the temperature changes? Or would the amount of material required make it too heavy and mass-inefficient? You're only trying to heat the electronics to prevent them from being damaged, right? With nifty lightweight insulators like aerogel, maybe it could be done that way.




Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: AJA on 01/28/2014 09:46 am
Only If they can develop RTG on time, else they will use the old trusted active thermal management method of ISRO flex heater bank + rechargeable batteries + solar panels.

Running off a battery for 20 odd days is going to be a real challenge. So much so that I think lunar night operations demand a Radio-isotope heater unit. Doesn't have to be RTG, but something that provides the heat. You'd radiate the heat during day-time operations, and fold up the radiator for night time ops.

But that's a guess. Anyone know if any of the probes that've been to the moon endured a lunar night (or several), and used only batteries (+heaters)?

What about some kind of phase change material, which could provide some "thermal mass" to buffer the temperature changes? Or would the amount of material required make it too heavy and mass-inefficient? You're only trying to heat the electronics to prevent them from being damaged, right? With nifty lightweight insulators like aerogel, maybe it could be done that way.

Thermal mass is mass too. So yeah. Heavy. They'll almost certainly use lightweight insulators, but they'd want it to do double duty as a structural member. Again, to save mass. Which is why I don't think they'll use aerogel. You may as well have a evacuated space double-walled membrane with one or two support posts (aerogel probably doesn't have the structural strength) - eliminating conduction altogether - like a thermos flask.

EDIT: Time to look like an idiot. Spirit and Opportunity are insulated with aerogels. (http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/sc_rover_temp_aerogel.html) As was Sojourner (http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/tech/aerogel.html). So there's obviously something I'm not considering.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/28/2014 11:27 am

What about some kind of phase change material, which could provide some "thermal mass" to buffer the temperature changes? Or would the amount of material required make it too heavy and mass-inefficient?

Yes, ISRO will employ both passive and active thermal control management for the rover. Passive TCM involves use of thermal grease, thermal paint, multilayer insulation, thermal filler materials, Heat pipes, Thermal flap, optical solar reflectors (OSR), heat radiators etc.
 Active TCM uses flexible heater banks and thermistors. ISRO will have to manage the tradeoff between TCM requirements and weight requirements.


You're only trying to heat the electronics to prevent them from being damaged, right? With nifty lightweight insulators like aerogel, maybe it could be done that way.

Both multilayer insulation and heater banks will be used for designing the Warm electronics box (WEB) that will house all the electronics.

ISRO is also developing fluid circuits for TCM in the crew module, a derivative of which could be employed?

My guess is that ISRO will also move the rover inside the lander during lunar night for extra protection.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/28/2014 11:35 am


Running off a battery for 20 odd days is going to be a real challenge. So much so that I think lunar night operations demand a Radio-isotope heater unit. Doesn't have to be RTG, but something that provides the heat. You'd radiate the heat during day-time operations, and fold up the radiator for night time ops.

But that's a guess. Anyone know if any of the probes that've been to the moon endured a lunar night (or several), and used only batteries (+heaters)?



Yes running 20 days on battery might be challenging, but perhaps that shouldn't be problematic when most of the electronics will be shut down barring critical monitoring system.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: AJA on 01/28/2014 03:04 pm
My guess is that ISRO will also move the rover inside the lander during lunar night for extra protection.

I thought of that when Yutu started having issues. But that has its own attendant problems. First, as sanman's been saying: dust. You drive the rover back, and you'll bring whole heaps of dust into the lander.

Secondly, any deployment mechanism that will essentially have to be reversible will cost mass. (Letting something down onto the lunar surface can use frangible nuts/ cut wires etc. / exploit lunar gravity - but bringing something back up will require a motor. Sure You can simply open up a ramp and let the rover drive down and up along it as depicted in the picture, but then a) you need a ramp and b) folding that on top of the rover (presumably) to offer thermal protection would need a motor. If you didn't plan on getting the rover back into its place, then you could've simply had "drop down" MLI on top of the rover, which covers the vacant space once the rover leaves.

Thirdly, from a science perspective - you're going to limit the rover's range and traverses if it has to get back to the lander each time. This may be the case anyway if we have only a rover and lander (rover needs to stay within communication range)... but the diagram depicts an orbiter too. (Which would allow the rover a free rein).

But if they do decide to do this, then you can turn 1 & 3 into an advantage by getting the rover to sample dust and ejecta from different locations (assuming you put some sort of mini-lab on the lander that can do this analysis. Or shift the instrumentation from the rover to the lander; and make the rover more durable, and lighter.) As for 2 - maybe beef up one solar array structurally, and have it serve as the ramp. And cover it with Corning Gorilla Glass (TM) as a scratch-guard. That'll be a public outreach coup :D
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: ss1_3 on 01/28/2014 05:22 pm


Oh, and how are they going to tackle the ultra-low nighttime temperatures? Are they going to use RTGs as well?

If they are going to South pole, temperature shouldn't be much of an issue. It remains largely illuminated over a "lunar day" with relatively stable temperature (around -50oC), which should be well within operating range of electronics onboard.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/29/2014 03:58 am
My guess is that ISRO will also move the rover inside the lander during lunar night for extra protection.

I thought of that when Yutu started having issues. But that has its own attendant problems. First, as sanman's been saying: dust. You drive the rover back, and you'll bring whole heaps of dust into the lander.

Secondly, any deployment mechanism that will essentially have to be reversible will cost mass. (Letting something down onto the lunar surface can use frangible nuts/ cut wires etc. / exploit lunar gravity - but bringing something back up will require a motor. Sure You can simply open up a ramp and let the rover drive down and up along it as depicted in the picture, but then a) you need a ramp and b) folding that on top of the rover (presumably) to offer thermal protection would need a motor. If you didn't plan on getting the rover back into its place, then you could've simply had "drop down" MLI on top of the rover, which covers the vacant space once the rover leaves.

Thirdly, from a science perspective - you're going to limit the rover's range and traverses if it has to get back to the lander each time. This may be the case anyway if we have only a rover and lander (rover needs to stay within communication range)... but the diagram depicts an orbiter too. (Which would allow the rover a free rein).

But if they do decide to do this, then you can turn 1 & 3 into an advantage by getting the rover to sample dust and ejecta from different locations (assuming you put some sort of mini-lab on the lander that can do this analysis. Or shift the instrumentation from the rover to the lander; and make the rover more durable, and lighter.) As for 2 - maybe beef up one solar array structurally, and have it serve as the ramp. And cover it with Corning Gorilla Glass (TM) as a scratch-guard. That'll be a public outreach coup :D

In case of yutu, it wont be possible because yutu sits on top of the lander, so no mechanism to conceal it within the lander. I agree with your points regarding dust ,motorized ramp and restricted range. ISRO will have to take a call based on their.
feasibility studies.

Also, how effective will be the tiny rectangular/square microstrip patch antenna in communication with the orbiter?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: AJA on 01/29/2014 04:49 am

Yeah, probably wouldn't have helped Yutu much, apart from being in the proximity of a warmer "floor" (or even "ceiling" - if it went and sat under the lander - provided there was enough clearance) that offered a better thermal radiation environment. Mutual benefit too. But I think the deployment was one way, and that the engine bell wasn't that far off the ground.. ruling both out.


Also, how effective will be the tiny rectangular/square microstrip patch antenna in communication with the orbiter?


Isn't that the whole point of a patch antenna? That you can "print" it onto surfaces? It can cover the outside of the rover and enlarge the collecting area. You'd almost definitely have to phase delay some elements of the patch, and perhaps even do this dynamically, depending on orbiter-rover geometry... but still..


That is, if they're going to use one at all. Still in the early phases aren't they?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/29/2014 05:31 am
EDIT: Time to look like an idiot. Spirit and Opportunity are insulated with aerogels. (http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/sc_rover_temp_aerogel.html) As was Sojourner (http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/tech/aerogel.html). So there's obviously something I'm not considering.

The Mars rovers used aerogel as the Martian atmosphere is thick enough so that multi layer insulation (MLI) is not effective. On the Moon, there is no atmosphere so using MLI is sufficient. There is no need to use aerogel on the Moon.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: AJA on 01/29/2014 07:44 am
The Mars rovers used aerogel as the Martian atmosphere is thick enough so that multi layer insulation (MLI) is not effective. On the Moon, there is no atmosphere so using MLI is sufficient. There is no need to use aerogel on the Moon.

Firstly, shouldn't aerogel take precedence over MLI? Given that it's lighter? If the aerogel didn't suffice, make it thicker, and if it still doesn't work, or the form factor is non-conducive...then maybe bolster the insulation with MLI. But surely you'd want to use aerogel first? Moreover, I don't think aerogel suffers from static charge build up, so there's that advantage as well?

Secondly, why use anything at all? If you need the conductive insulation, surely you add a thin shell around your existing rover body, and evacuate the space between the shell and the body. Mount this shell on a few non-conductive struts (perhaps the struts are made of aerogel), and you're done. A vacuum has lower thermal conductivity (zero) than aerogel.

Unless you're telling me that a slab of aerogel on all faces is actually lighter than that, and has the added benefit of offering some MMOD protection, and some structural stability for a very small tradeoff in mass/thermal conductivity.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: baldusi on 01/29/2014 01:31 pm
AJA, are you aware that you ended up describing MLI?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: AJA on 01/29/2014 02:46 pm
AJA, are you aware that you ended up describing MLI?

Had a hunch, and checked before I posted. But I found

Quote from: Wikipedia article on MLI
In its basic form, it does not appreciably insulate against other thermal losses such as heat conduction or convection.

Same article also said

Quote
Spacecraft also may use MLI as a first line of defense against dust impacts. This normally means spacing it a cm or so away from the surface it is insulating.

This would insulate from conductive heat losses (from spacecraft to MLI, and to whatever the MLI's in contact with. Conduction & convection, if the MLI's in contact with a fluid)

But I don't think I've ever come across a case where the MLI's been applied like this. They always seem to wrap up the thing they're insulating, while being in contact with it. Hence "blanket" as opposed to "tent" or "awning".
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/29/2014 03:28 pm
Probable payloads for the CH2 lander

1. An Electrostatic Potential and Dust Analyzer for a lunar lander mission, PRL
2. Chandra’s Surface Thermophysical Experiment (ChaSTE): A payload aboard Chandrayaan-2 Lander Experiment, SPL

CH2 EO payloads:
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 02/03/2014 05:54 am
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Revelf on 02/03/2014 11:23 am
something with legs?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 02/04/2014 01:35 am
something with legs?

Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfiHOpv6HtI
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 02/19/2014 08:20 am
Some tidbits:
http://www.newsonair.com/news.asp?cat=national&id=NN4455
Quote
The project is likely to be completed by 2016-17.
Quote
Also, a few landing sites have been shortlisted based on the images obtained from earlier Moon missions. A special team is constructing the Lander.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Gaganaut on 02/22/2014 02:52 pm
Potential Landing spots for Chandrayaan-2 identified

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-landing-spots-for-chandrayaan-2-identified-1963786 (http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-landing-spots-for-chandrayaan-2-identified-1963786)

Quote
Minister of state for PMO V Narayanaswamy recently announced in the Parliament that the mission, which is likely to take place in 2016-17, is progressing well with Isro having identified landing spots on the lunar surface. The two scientific payloads onboard the Chandrayaan-1 terrain mapping camera had captured a number of images of the lunar surface, which have been used for zeroing in on the designated spots.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 05/11/2014 04:19 am
Chandrayaan’s rover and the moon rocks from Salem villages


Quote
Rocks from Sithampoondi, Kunnamalai are similar in properties to moon soil

Quote
As commands erupt into life, a 17-kg rover, akin to the rover of Chandrayaan-2, revs up. It turns right, then left, lurches forward and backs up.

Quote
We identified Sithampoondi, from where we excavated 60 tonnes of rocks which are geologically similar to the lunar composition. We made a special effort to pulverise the rocks to various sizes ranging from 30 to 200 microns and mix them in various proportions to match the chemical and mechanical properties of the lunar soil to study the rover’s movements on it in a simulated environment.

Quote
Since the gravity on the moon is one-sixth of the earth’s gravity, a helium-filled balloon which will lift five-sixths of the rover’s weight is being used in the lunar terrain facility.

Quote
We have realised a six-wheeled rover and it is being tested in the lunar terrain facility. The design work on the lander is in progress in ISRO.

Quote
Weighing 20 kg, it will move about on the moon for one lunar day, that is, 14 earth days, Dr. Annadurai said. It would be loaded with commands for turning to the left and right, for going forward and backing down.


http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/chandrayaans-rover-and-the-moon-rocks-from-salem-villages/article5996869.ece
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 05/12/2014 07:43 am
That article also says the landing is in 2017. Maybe someone should update the thread title.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: input~2 on 05/12/2014 04:02 pm
That article also says the landing is in 2017. Maybe someone should update the thread title.
Done!
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 08/05/2014 02:24 pm
Chandrayaan 2

Chandrayaan 2, India’s second mission to the Moon, is an advanced version of the previous Chandrayaan-1 mission. It consists of an Orbiter, Lander and Rover configuration. It is planned to be launched as a composite stack into the Earth Parking Orbit (EPO) of 170 X 18,500 km by GSLV-Mk II. The Orbiter carries the combined stack up to moon till the Lunar Orbit Insertion (LOI). The combined stack is then inserted into a lunar orbit of 100 km x 100 km. The Lander is separated from the Orbiter in this orbit.
The Orbiter with scientific payloads will orbit around the moon. The Lander will soft land on the Moon at a specified site and deploy the Rover. The scientific payloads onboard the Orbiter, Lander and Rover are expected to perform mineralogical and elemental studies of the lunar surface.

The payloads onboard Orbiter and Rover are finalised and the payload development is progressing at various ISRO centres/laboratories. A six wheeled Rover has been realised and initial tests on the Lunar terrain test facility has been carried out. Since the Lander development is a new technology for ISRO, Lander configuration and feasibility study has been carried out for Chandrayaan-2 mission in a GSLV-Mk II vehicle. The Lander payloads are shortlisted for further review. Landing site identification, soft landing strategy, hazard avoidance, preliminary design of lander subsystems, new technologies required for safe and soft landing are being worked out.

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 08/05/2014 02:32 pm
Thanks for the updates, antriksh. Will the orbiter be based on an ISRO satellite bus (I-2K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-2K)/I-3K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-3K)/I-4K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-4K)?) or PAM-G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tug#ISRO_PAM-G)?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 08/05/2014 02:36 pm
Thanks for the updates, antriksh. Will the orbiter be based on an ISRO satellite bus (I-2K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-2K)/I-3K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-3K)/I-4K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-4K)?) or PAM-G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tug#ISRO_PAM-G)?

Orbiter will be from chandrayaan 1 with integration interface for the lander.

Updates are from  ISRO annual report 2014.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 08/05/2014 03:09 pm
Thanks for the updates, antriksh. Will the orbiter be based on an ISRO satellite bus (I-2K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-2K)/I-3K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-3K)/I-4K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-4K)?) or PAM-G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tug#ISRO_PAM-G)?

Orbiter will be from chandrayaan 1 with integration interface for the lander.

Updates are from  ISRO annual report 2014.

Thanks. I think Chandryaan 1 was based on ISRO IRS (I-1K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-1K)) bus.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: GClark on 08/05/2014 08:41 pm
Thanks for the updates, antriksh. Will the orbiter be based on an ISRO satellite bus (I-2K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-2K)/I-3K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-3K)/I-4K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-4K)?) or PAM-G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tug#ISRO_PAM-G)?

Orbiter will be from chandrayaan 1 with integration interface for the lander.

Updates are from  ISRO annual report 2014.

Thanks. I think Chandryaan 1 was based on ISRO IRS (I-1K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-1K)) bus.

ISTR reading in multiple sources that the Chandrayaan 2 orbiter will use the I-3K bus.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 08/06/2014 02:07 am
Thanks for the updates, antriksh. Will the orbiter be based on an ISRO satellite bus (I-2K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-2K)/I-3K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-3K)/I-4K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-4K)?) or PAM-G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tug#ISRO_PAM-G)?

Orbiter will be from chandrayaan 1 with integration interface for the lander.

Updates are from  ISRO annual report 2014.

Thanks. I think Chandryaan 1 was based on ISRO IRS (I-1K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-1K)) bus.

ISTR reading in multiple sources that the Chandrayaan 2 orbiter will use the I-3K bus.

if I am not mistaken, GSLV mk2 cannot handle I3k + lander + rover
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 08/06/2014 03:06 am
Looks like lander will have 3 clustered engines as main engine. It would probably be derived from PAM-G.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 08/10/2014 08:00 pm
Chandrayaan-2 mission slated for 2016-2017:

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/chandrayaan-2-indo-russian-moon-mission-be-launched-by-2017-606383
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 08/11/2014 07:59 am
Simulating reduced weight and traction under lunar gravity using Helium balloon for CHandrayan 2 rover prototype.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: johnxx9 on 09/24/2014 05:04 pm
K Radhakrishnan interview: Success due to tireless efforts of Isro team (http://www.hindustantimes.com/specials/coverage/marsorbitermission/marsorbitermission/k-radhakrishnan-interview-success-due-to-tireless-efforts-of-isro-team/sp-article10-1267767.aspx)

Quote
7. When will Chandrayaan-2 be launched?
Chandrayaan-2 mission will be totally an Indian mission, configured with an Orbiter, Lander and Rover for in-situ investigation of the lunar surface. A six wheel Rover has been realised and initial tests have been conducted in the lunar terrain test facility. Besides, the development of Indian Lander involves many new technologies in the areas of navigation, control and guidance, sensors, soft landing and so on. Based on the present assessment of the progress, we may be in a position to launch it in 2016-2017 timeframe.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 10/17/2014 10:04 am
Source (http://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08NEWDELHI2295_a.html)  ???

(U) During a recent visit to Indian Space Research Organization
(ISRO) in Bangalore, SciCouns met with Mr. Annadurai, Project
Director for 'Chandrayaan I' and observed the integration process of
the two US instruments on the spacecraft.  Discussions were also
 
NEW DELHI 00002295  002.2 OF 005
 
 
held regarding possible collaboration on 'Chandrayaan II'. NASA is
considering sending an advanced RTG (Radioisotope Thermoelectric
Generator) power source (generates power from a 238 Plutonium heat
source) aboard 'Chandrayaan II'.
  This could be mission
enabling/enhancing for 'Chandrayaan II'.  Because the advanced RTG
has moving parts, NASA is seeking a flight opportunity to qualify it
prior to its use on long duration outer planetary missions.  India
has also recently joined eight nations (US, Canada, Germany, Italy,
Japan, South Korea, France and England) to develop new technologies
for exploratory robotic manned missions to the moon.
 
6.  (U) NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory's Director Dr. Charles
Elachi visited ISRO on August 20 with the objective of exploring
collaborations on planetary missions.  Mission will forward the
readout from this meeting.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: baldusi on 10/17/2014 03:10 pm
That should be the Advanced Stirling radioisotope generator, but that project was put on hold last year. Besides, it would require to nuclear rate the GSLV-MkII. May be they decided that no NASA missions wanted the risk (and certification cost) of the ASRG, and the project was ballooning in cost. But if the Indians are willing to take the risk, and the hourly cost of Indian analysts (for the certification) is cheap (or payed by ISRO), then they could retire risk for very cheap.
And, if you consider the problems with the pellet pressing bed, the reduced Pu238 requirement of the ASRG gets very interesting. In fact, they might be trading pushing the new bed now against finishing and certifying the ASRG. Pure uninformed speculation.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: GClark on 10/17/2014 05:42 pm
I'll add some uninformed speculation of my own.

Perhaps they have confused RHUs and ASRGs/MMRTGs?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: baldusi on 10/17/2014 06:16 pm
I'll add some uninformed speculation of my own.

Perhaps they have confused RHUs and ASRGs/MMRTGs?
If that where the case, where did they get this part?

[...]Because the advanced RTG has moving parts, NASA is seeking a flight opportunity to qualify it prior to its use on long duration outer planetary missions. [...]
That's the only reason I speculated about the ASRG, specifically. I don't see use of an RHU on a Mars orbiter. Besides, to my knowledge, there's nothing else nuclear that actually needs to be qualified.
Of course that an RHU has some uses for a rover, and an MMRTG would be invaluable for the polar exploration of Mars. I simply don't see NASA tapping its scarce stash of Pu238 on a technological demonstrator of another nation unless they get a lot in return. I can only think of qualifying the ASRG. Nothing else comes to mind of what's probably the scarcest resource for NASA right now.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: GClark on 10/18/2014 06:37 am
Oh, I agree with you there.  The description certainly sounds like an ASRG.

I also agree re: PU-238.  I just don't see NASA re-starting ASRG for this without an infusion of $$ and I really don't see it being flown on someone else' vehicle/rover.

Not sure where you got a Mars orbiter from.  I thought this was about the Chandrayaan 2 lunar rover?  I can see an RHU or ASRG for that use.

I wonder what/who is the source and what was really written/said.  I try to keep in mind what others have posted about Indian media.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: baldusi on 10/18/2014 12:56 pm
You are absolutely right its (apparently) for Chandrayaan-2. I'm not a good multitasker :-)
Clearly anything on the surface can take advantage of Pu238. AIUI, even Chang'e 3 and Yutu have RHU. An advantage of going to the Moon is that there are not the costs associated with planetary protection regulations. Just "don't hit Apollo 11 landing site".
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: baldusi on 10/18/2014 01:01 pm
Ok, the source appears to be a diplomatic cable that's on WikiLeaks. And its from 2008. At that time NASA was trying to get ASRG qualified. Or at least the division in charge of development. The divisions actually selecting missions kept selecting the ones that didn't use Pu238. Among other issues, restart of Pu238 production was still a distant hope.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 10/18/2014 03:50 pm
I'm curious  -- when these radiothermal generators are used on rovers, are they merely meant to keep delicate electronics from freezing and breaking at night?

If so, then it seems like an awful lot of complexity would be removed by inventing electronics that can withstand extreme temperature swings.


However, a Stirling engine component sounds like its meant to generate electrical power, if not locomotive.

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 10/22/2014 09:23 am
There are military grade electronics parts that work at -55 C, but Lunar night can go down to -150 C. I'm not sure of parts that can work that low. There are also reliability aspects as high temperature swings cause thermal contraction and expansion, which can break wires, parts and boards. RTGs can provide both heat and electrical power for the rover.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: baldusi on 10/22/2014 10:43 am
To expand on what Steven said. Lunar night goes to -150C, while day might go to 400C. That's a 550C variance. That's quite a problem mechanically. Even the solders have to be special. And when you have features measured in nanometers, any differential in thermal expansion can disrupt an electronic contact. NVidia had a notebook chipset that simply broke due to this problem a few years back. The root cause was a selection of a pin bonding method that was too sensitive to thermal swings. And those are usually 10C to 75C parts.
Btw, a new chip factory is around 5B. But I believe that bonding (i.e putting the actual chip in the square support and connecting it to the pins) is done separately. Thus, developing such a chip would be mighty expensive. It is actually cheaper to put a cooling system and an RHU.
Incidentally, electronics that worked at around 800K would enable Venus surface missions for very cheap.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: abhishek on 10/29/2014 05:47 pm
BREAKING NEWS  ;D

GSLV MK3 instead of MK2 will be used for chandrayaan 2 mission

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/india-plans-second-mars-mission-in-2018/509390-11.html
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 10/30/2014 01:03 pm
BREAKING NEWS  ;D

GSLV MK3 instead of MK2 will be used for chandrayaan 2 mission

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/india-plans-second-mars-mission-in-2018/509390-11.html

Seems to me more like a case of misreporting here and there.
Quote
"We will be able to take the Mars-2 mission after launching the second mission to the moon (Chandrayaan-2) in 2016 with our own lander and rover, which will help us develop a separate lander and rover for the red planet," Kumar said
Quote
The space agency has developed the geo-synchronous satellite launch vehicle (GSLV-Mark I-III) with indigenous cryogenic engine to launch heavier satellites weighing more than two tonnes and three tonnes into the geo-orbit at 36,000 km above Earth.
Quote
"GSLV-Mark I-III will be used for Chandrayaan-2, which will have heavier payload than its predecessor (Chandrayaan-1) and later for Mars-2 mission, as both will have a lander and rover in addition to scientific experiments," he said.

What does he mean by GSLV-Mark I-III? Either the reporter was referring to both GSLV-II & GSLV-III in general, or he was confused between the two. If ISRO plans to launch Mangalyaan-2 with lander/rover after Chandrayaan-2, they will have to stick with a 2017 launch schedule for the latter. It is highly unlikely GSLV-III will be ready for operational flights by then.

I would put my bets on ISRO sticking to GSLV-II as the launcher.  ;)


Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: ss1_3 on 10/30/2014 06:24 pm
Going by the timelines for operationalization, Mk-III launch can be ruled out.

Quote
The first development flight (GSLV Mk-III D1) with an operational cryogenic stage is planned between 2016 to 2017. The second development flight (GSLV Mk-III D2) is planned after one year of GSLV Mk-III D1 flight in 2017 to 2018.

http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report-gslv-mk-iii-expected-to-be-launched-in-first-half-of-december-2030711
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 10/31/2014 12:58 am
Note that good payloads have been launched on developmental flights for GSLV-Mk2. Some have been successful, some have been lost, but there were no dummy payloads. The same may be possible for GSLV-Mk3.

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 10/31/2014 10:26 am
I feel Chandrayaan-II would be too prestigious a payload to risk in a development flight. If the launch were to fail, it will be a PR disaster for ISRO and the agency would be bashed left and right for using an untested launcher. The case of Mangalyaan-II might be a bit different though, as GSLV-II may not be able to launch a good orbiter, lander and rover to Mars on a single flight.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 11/11/2014 11:45 pm
After Mars, ISRO chief Radhakrishnan aims for the moon


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/after-mars-isro-chief-radhakrishnan-aims-for-the-moon/articleshow/45112373.cms

Quote
Buoyed by the success, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) chairman K.S Radhakrishnan said the agency was forging ahead with plans to land an unnamed craft on the moon, along with a satellite to study the sun.

"The aim is three years from now, an Indian lander and Indian rover will land on the moon," he told AFP.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 11/19/2014 03:03 am
Landing Stages

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 11/24/2014 10:17 pm
Preparations for the unmanned crew module are on track for a December launch:

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/all-set-to-put-unmanned-crew-module-into-orbit/article6631187.ece
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 11/25/2014 04:35 am
Preparations for the unmanned crew module are on track for a December launch:

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/all-set-to-put-unmanned-crew-module-into-orbit/article6631187.ece

@sanman, just wondering.. does this news item have relevance in the Chandrayaan-II thread? Maybe you meant to post in a different thread?  ;)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 11/27/2014 07:37 pm
Yeah, sorry, meant to post it in the GSLV-Mk3 thread -- but Antriksh has done that anyway
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: JH on 11/28/2014 05:10 am
Can anyone comment on why they aren't pushing the mission back a year rather than flying on the GSLV Mk II? I had thought that MOM was crammed onto a PSLV because the GSLV Mk III wasn't ready yet and planetary missions are considered too important to entrust to the (as I understand it) unreliable GSLV Mk II. Surely the same logic would preclude launching Chandrayaan 2 on a GSLV Mk II.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: abhishek on 11/28/2014 09:15 am
Can anyone comment on why they aren't pushing the mission back a year rather than flying on the GSLV Mk II? I had thought that MOM was crammed onto a PSLV because the GSLV Mk III wasn't ready yet and planetary missions are considered too important to entrust to the (as I understand it) unreliable GSLV Mk II. Surely the same logic would preclude launching Chandrayaan 2 on a GSLV Mk II.

The Chandrayaan 2 cannot fly on GSLV MK 3 because GSLV 3 would still be in developmental stage and a mission like Chandrayaan2 is just too critical to be sent on a rocket thats still on developmental flight.

Where as GSLV 2 needs just one more developmental flight to get commissioned into regular service.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: JH on 11/29/2014 03:04 am
I understand that the GSLV Mk III is under development. I was asking why the mission isn't delayed until the Mk III is finished with development. The GSLV Mk II is just a Mk I with an indigenous CE-7.5 cryogenic engine rather than a Russian KVD-1 cryogenic engine for the third stage. The GSLV Mk I has a bad launch record, therefore most of the components of the Mk II have a bad launch record. Why is an important mission being placed on a launcher with questionable heritage? Is it that they believe all of the issues with the Mk II have been resolved?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: abhishek on 11/29/2014 04:04 am
I understand that the GSLV Mk III is under development. I was asking why the mission isn't delayed until the Mk III is finished with development. The GSLV Mk II is just a Mk I with an indigenous CE-7.5 cryogenic engine rather than a Russian KVD-1 cryogenic engine for the third stage. The GSLV Mk I has a bad launch record, therefore most of the components of the Mk II have a bad launch record. Why is an important mission being placed on a launcher with questionable heritage? Is it that they believe all of the issues with the Mk II have been resolved?

The project has already been delayed by 3 years,any further delay would adversely affect other critical programs.

The project is already gone beyond design board and is under fabrication stage.So for sending it on GSLV 3 would require redesigning and incur additional cost and time.

The issue with GSLV  largely lies with it's Upper stage which seems to have been resolved.We need just one more successful launch to press it into regular service.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: savuporo on 11/29/2014 04:50 am
Landing Stages

That pic seems to indicate as the lander is now planned have autonomous hazard avoidance and final landing site selection ( retargeting ) , just like Change-3 did ? Earlier graphics did not seem to indicate that.

BTW, relatively comprehensive tracking page on all C-2 developments:
http://isp.justthe80.com/moon-exploration/chandrayaan---2
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: JH on 11/29/2014 06:26 am
Gotcha. Thanks!
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: abhishek on 12/11/2014 04:01 am
Sorry, couldn't find a thread on this program,So i am posting it on chandrayaan 2 topic

Moon Mission: Giant leap for startup

Quote
The Indian startup attempting to soft-land a craft on the Moon has just won funding from a host of bigwigs in the venture capital, technology and startup ecosystem, and accolades from some of India's leading space scientists.
The new investors in the venture include Subrata Mitra & Shekhar Kirani of Accel Partners (they have invested in their individual capacities), Sharad Sharma, former Yahoo India R&D head, Vivek Raghavan, chief product manager of UIDAI (the Aadhaar project), Pallaw Sharma, director of analytics at Microsoft based in Redmond, Bala Parthasarthy, serial entrepreneur and part of the AngelPrime angel investor group, Sunil Kalra, entrepreneur & investor, Paras Chopra and Pallav Nadhani, both founders of successful startups.

Quote
If Team Indus succeeds in its venture, it would be the first time India would be soft-landing a craft on the Moon. ISRO's Chandrayaan-1 orbited the Moon and then hard-landed, crashing itself on the Moon's surface. The Google Lunar XPrize, which carries $40 million in prize money, also requires that a rover will dismount from the landing craft and travel 500 metres on the lunar surface, and take high quality images. "The audacity of the plan was what attracted me to Team Indus. It's such a big and complex project," said Raghavan, who has been with the UIDAI project since its inception.

Quote
Going by the latest reviews of the project by top space scientists, Team Indus could well achieve its mission. V Adimurthy, a senior ISRO advisor and designer of the Mars orbiter mission, said about two years ago, when he first met Team Indus, there were many loose ends. "Three months ago there was another review, and what I saw made very good sense. It has become a very feasible project, and I think they can do it," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Moon-Mission-Giant-leap-for-startup/articleshow/45466298.cms
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 01/12/2015 07:43 am
http://www.asianage.com/india/chandrayaan-ii-full-progress-isro-ex-chief-159 (http://www.asianage.com/india/chandrayaan-ii-full-progress-isro-ex-chief-159)

Quote
K. Radhakrishnan, former chairman of the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), said on Saturday that work on Chandrayaan-II was in full progress and the nation can expect it to land an indigenously-built spacecraft with a rover on the surface of the Moon within three to five years.

Signs of Chandrayaan-II getting delayed to 2019-2020? The development of the lander should be pretty challenging, but any idea whether they are facing some major hiccups necessitating a delay? I remember reading a similar news report that quoted ISRO sources (maybe Radhakrishnan himself) saying the lander would be developed within 3 years and the launch can be expected within 5 years. Couldn't find it now.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: GClark on 01/12/2015 08:29 am
Perhaps bumped in favor of the next Mars mission, rather?

ISRO generally works on one science mission at a time.  With four currently in development (AstroSat, Chandrayaan 2, Aditya, next Mars), if Chandrayaan 2 has indeed run into some development difficulties - say, mass growth(?) -  I would not be surprised by it being bumped.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Gabbar on 01/21/2015 12:28 pm
Kiran Kumar: Medicine’s loss, Isro’s gain (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/Kiran-Kumar-Medicines-loss-Isros-gain/articleshow/45946473.cms)

Quote
"Isro is busy working on Chandrayan-2, which will be taken up in 2016-17," he said adding that Isro has been working for the people and will continue doing so.

Chandrayaan-2 might get launched sometime by 2017 after all, well, hopefully.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 02/26/2015 01:51 am
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: input~2 on 04/16/2015 07:21 am
Chandrayan-2 will be completely indigenous: ISRO chief (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/chandrayan-2-will-be-completely-indigenous-isro-chief/articleshow/46937776.cms)
Launch expected in FY 2017
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 04/18/2015 05:43 am
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indias-second-moon-mission-to-be-launched-in-2017/articleshow/46964764.cms

Quote
THRISSUR: Chandrayaan 2, India's second satellite mission to moon, will be launched in 2017, said M C Dathan, director of Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC), Thiruvananthapuram.

Speaking after inaugurating the pavilion of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) at the Thrissur pooram exhibition the other day, Dathan said preparations are in full swing for the launch of Chandrayaan 2 at the various ISRO units including at the VSSC.

The launch will happen in the fifth sojourn of Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV) Mark II rocket.

Quote
As per the present plan, GSLV Mark II rocket will carry Chandrayaan 2 satellite in its proposed launch in 2017.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 04/22/2015 11:01 pm
AvWeek:

http://aviationweek.com/space/india-s-second-moon-mission-be-fully-homegrown
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 05/10/2015 03:25 pm
Study of Potential Landing Sites on Lunar South Polar area for Chandrayaan-2 Lander (http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2015/pdf/1351.pdf)

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 05/10/2015 07:13 pm
What is ISRO doing to mitigate any potential problems of the kind that the Chinese rover mission experienced?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 05/10/2015 08:07 pm
Here's a youtube clip from a few years ago, which mentions the Laser Ablation Instrument as the primary investigative instrument onboard the Chandrayaan-2 rover:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkI5NBLR59Y

The instrument will be used to zap rocks with a laser and analyze their surface composition via spectrometry. It will work on the same principles as the ChemCam on NASA's Mars Curiosity rover.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrayaan-2#Payload

Quote
Rover payload
Laser induced Breakdown Spectroscope (LIBS) from Laboratory for Electro Optic Systems (LEOS), Bangalore.[15]
Alpha Particle Induced X-ray Spectroscope (APIXS) from PRL, Ahmedabad.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 05/28/2015 03:12 am
http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/science/sac-to-deliver-eyes-and-ears-of-chandrayaan-2-by-2015-end/

Quote
The ISRO’s Space Applications Centre (SAC) at Ahmedabad, which is designing the “eyes and ears” of Chandrayaan-2, has targeted to deliver all the payloads for the lunar mission by the end of 2015, official sources said. This includes three major payloads and a crucial set of sensors and communication equipment that will be fitted on to the orbiter, lander and the rover.

Quote
“The preliminary design review is over and the flight models are under fabrication. We will be delivering the payload by the end of this year or at the beginning of next year,” Misra added. SAC is developing three major payloads namely the Terrain Mapping Camera-2 (TMC-2), Imaging Infra-Red Spectrometer (IIRS) and L&S Band Synthetic Aperture Radar (L&S-band SAR). All these three payloads will be part of the orbiter that will encircle the moon.

Quote
The most challenging part of the Chandrayaan-2 mission will be the soft landing of the lander on the lunar surface. “SAC is developing all the sensors to provide the lander with real-time information for navigation need for a safe descent on the moon’s surface,” Misra remarked.
The sensors being developed are Orbiter High Resolution Camera (OHRC), Ka-band Altimeter, Lander Position Detection Camera (LPDC) and Lander Hazard Detection and Avoidance Cameras (LHDAC). While the OHRC onboard the orbiter will image the landing site and determine the exact descent point before the lander is ejected from the composite spacecraft, the other three sensors will guide the lander to the descent point.

Quote
SAC is also developing a HD video camera for both the lander and the rover. “The equipment on board the lander and the rover will have a mission life of just 14-15 days. The extreme temperatures on the moon will eventually destroy them,” Misra said adding that the equipment developed by SAC for the lander and the rover can withstand temperatures ranging between a freezing minus 30 degrees to a high of 70 degrees.

Quote
Apart from SAC, the Ahmedabad-based Physical Research Laboratory (PRL) will is also developing two payloads of Chandrayaan-2. This includes a X-Ray Solar monitor that will part of the orbiter and will observe the x-rays emitted from the Sun. PRL is also developing a rover payload called the Alpha Particle X-Ray Spectrometer that will determine the elemental composition (Mg, Al, Si, K, Ca, TiFe) of lunar soil and rocks around the lunar landing site.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 06/01/2015 02:15 pm
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 06/22/2015 01:43 pm
HAL delivers Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft body (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/hal-delivers-chandrayaan2-spacecraft-body/article7342479.ece)

Quote
The Orbiter Craft Module structure is a three-tonne category bus made out of a central composite cylinder, shear webs and deck panels
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Ohsin on 07/17/2015 04:27 pm
Quote
For the landing of Chandrayaan-2 mission, a throttle engine is being developed, he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/RSLV-tech-demo-flight-by-October-Isro-chief/articleshow/48116645.cms
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: abhishek on 07/19/2015 10:14 am
India already has a second visit to the Moon planned for 2018 through Chandrayaan-2 that will include an orbiter, lander and a rover on the lunar surface. This Rs 500 crore mission is already being put together in Bengaluru and it will be launched using the GSLV Mk-II.

According to ISRO it would `further our understanding of origin and evolution of the Moon with improved versions of Chandrayaan-1 instruments for imaging, mineralogy and chemistry; addition of alpha and neutron spectromet ..
Beyond Chandrayaan-2 ISRO seeks to plan for `lunar sample return missions from the polar region of moon and a possible establishment of lunar observatory'.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/48131695.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 07/19/2015 04:14 pm
India already has a second visit to the Moon planned for 2018 through Chandrayaan-2 that will include an orbiter, lander and a rover on the lunar surface. This Rs 500 crore mission is already being put together in Bengaluru and it will be launched using the GSLV Mk-II.

According to ISRO it would `further our understanding of origin and evolution of the Moon with improved versions of Chandrayaan-1 instruments for imaging, mineralogy and chemistry; addition of alpha and neutron spectromet ..
Beyond Chandrayaan-2 ISRO seeks to plan for `lunar sample return missions from the polar region of moon and a possible establishment of lunar observatory'.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/48131695.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst




Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: worldtimedate on 07/19/2015 10:11 pm
Quote

India already has a second visit to the Moon planned for 2018 through Chandrayaan-2 that will include an orbiter, Lander and a rover on the lunar surface. This Rs 500 crore mission is already being put together in Bengaluru and it will be launched using the GSLV-MkII.


GSLV-MkII is not yet operationalized. After the second successive successful launch with indigenous cryogenic engine probably in August this year, GSLV-MkII will be declared operational. Then it has to be launched another 4 times to scale up its higher payload capacity that is critical for launching Chandrayaan-2 which is likely to have a launch mass of 2650 KG ( Lander and Rover Mass : 1,250 kg, Orbiter : 1,400 KG ). GSLV-MkII has so fare launched the highest payload of 1980 KG. Its payload capacity has to be increased further up to 2650 KG. According to wikipedia, the mission strategy has been revised to inject Chandrayaan-2 in a lower initial orbit (170 X 16980 km) with a higher lift-off mass of 3200 kg. so, GSLV-MkII needs to be launched more frequently to scale up its payload capacity. Can someone verify what would be the launch mass of Chandrayaan 2 ( 2650 KG or 3200 KG )  ??

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 08/21/2015 03:17 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TzL1UTELgc
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: savuporo on 08/21/2015 04:13 pm
Wait what, Chandrayaan II is going to be doing optical terrain relative navigation on landing as well ? ( Chang'e-3 appears to have been the first ) Whoa, i like how things are developing
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 08/22/2015 07:09 am
Wait what, Chandrayaan II is going to be doing optical terrain relative navigation on landing as well ?

Where did you hear that? I listened to the video again, but did not hear that.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: seshagirib on 08/22/2015 08:29 am
Wait what, Chandrayaan II is going to be doing optical terrain relative navigation on landing as well ?

Where did you hear that? I listened to the video again, but did not hear that.
o
I too did not hear this, however an earlier post of antriksh talks about vision based landing system:
(http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20324.0;attach=837122;image)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: chota on 08/23/2015 04:54 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TzL1UTELgc

Interesting!! At 3250 Kg. will it be GSLV-MkII's heaviest payload

Heaviest lofted by MkII is 2310 kg GSAT-5P on GSLV-F06

May be its the separation orbit. GSLV-MkII's  LEO capability is 5 tonnes
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: chota on 09/08/2015 02:34 am
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/499707/indias-second-moon-mission-gains.html (http://www.deccanherald.com/content/499707/indias-second-moon-mission-gains.html)

Quote
The design of the indigenous lander and the configuration study has been completed by the Space Applications Centre (SAC) and the integration work will be done in Bengaluru

Quote
Isro will design the orbiter, which will orbit the Moon at an altitude of 100 km. The mission will carry five instruments on the orbiter. Three of them are new, while two others are improved versions of those flown on Chandrayaan-1 orbiter.

Quote
The rover's mass will be about 30–100 kg and will operate on solar power. The rover will move on wheels on the lunar surface, pick up samples of soil or rocks, perform on-site chemical analysis and send the data to the orbiter above, which will relay it to the Earth station
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 09/11/2015 10:46 pm
Chandrayaan-2 may get a nuclear / RTG power source

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Isro-may-give-N-boost-to-Chandrayaan-2/articleshow/48928966.cms
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/12/2015 07:10 am
It wasn't entirely clear, but they could be RHU (radioisotope heater units) to keep the lander and rover warm during the cold Lunar night.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 09/12/2015 04:35 pm
There were some speculations (Wikileaks Cables) earlier about NASA supplying a similar device for Chandrayaan 2 mission:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1272303#msg1272303
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: chota on 09/16/2015 04:29 pm
http://www.frontline.in/the-nation/cryogenic-success/article7655369.ece?homepage=true (http://www.frontline.in/the-nation/cryogenic-success/article7655369.ece?homepage=true)

As per above article Chandrayaan-II weighs 2,018 kg !!
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 11/18/2015 04:11 pm
Quote
India's second lunar mission, Chandrayaan-2, which is expected to be launched between 2017 and 2018, will have a rover which will operate on the moon's surface for 14 days. "It will function only for 14 days because its instruments are solar powered and the moon will have 14 days of sunlight," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/Now-Isro-to-launch-6-to-12-satellites-a-year/articleshow/49823834.cms
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: worldtimedate on 12/16/2015 08:44 pm

Quote

India’s second lunar probe Chandrayaan II will land on moon in 2017 and the country’s first solar mission Aditya L1 is likely to be launched in 2019, Lok Sabha was informed on Wednesday.

Chandrayaan II will land on the surface of moon in 2017 and this second lunar mission will help explore the possibilities of signs of extra-terrestrial life, Minister of State in Prime Minister’s Office Jitendra Singh said during Question Hour responding to supplementaries.



Chandrayaan-II in 2017; India to launch solar mission (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/indias-second-lunar-probe-chandrayaanii-will-land-on-mooon-in-2017-india-to-launch-solar-mission-in-2019/article7996066.ece)

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Moe Grills on 12/17/2015 02:49 am
It wasn't entirely clear, but they could be RHU (radioisotope heater units) to keep the lander and rover warm during the cold Lunar night.
RHU's can be modified to generate some electricity as well.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Moe Grills on 12/17/2015 02:51 am

Quote

India’s second lunar probe Chandrayaan II will land on moon in 2017 and the country’s first solar mission Aditya L1 is likely to be launched in 2019, Lok Sabha was informed on Wednesday.

Chandrayaan II will land on the surface of moon in 2017 and this second lunar mission will help explore the possibilities of signs of extra-terrestrial life, Minister of State in Prime Minister’s Office Jitendra Singh said during Question Hour responding to supplementaries.



Signs of.....extra-terrestrial life??????....on the Moon??????     Did I miss something???????
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 12/17/2015 04:18 am

Quote

India’s second lunar probe Chandrayaan II will land on moon in 2017 and the country’s first solar mission Aditya L1 is likely to be launched in 2019, Lok Sabha was informed on Wednesday.

Chandrayaan II will land on the surface of moon in 2017 and this second lunar mission will help explore the possibilities of signs of extra-terrestrial life, Minister of State in Prime Minister’s Office Jitendra Singh said during Question Hour responding to supplementaries.



Signs of.....extra-terrestrial life??????....on the Moon??????     Did I miss something???????

Cybertronians  ;D
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 01/05/2016 02:08 pm
No nuclear power for CH-2

Quote
We plan to take Chandrayaan 3 and 4 in near future and we may use nuclear power in those missions. By that time we will be completely ready with the materials and other things

Source (http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ISRO-Puts-Off-Nuclear-Powered-Space-Mission/2016/01/05/article3213005.ece)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: A.K. on 01/06/2016 06:31 am
ISRO puts off nuclear powered space mission (http://'http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ISRO-Puts-Off-Nuclear-Powered-Space-Mission/2016/01/05/article3213005.ece')
Quote from:
NEW DELHI: Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has decided to put off for time being its plans to use nuclear power to increase lifespan of India's second lunar mission Chandrayaan 2 as there has been delay in getting the required nuclear material from Russia.
Quote from:
The nuclear power is expected expected to increase the lifespan of the mission as life of Chandrayaan 1, launched in 2008, was cut short by two months due to technical problems. Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) has been also working to make the nuclear material for the mission.
Quote from:
"We had plans to give nuclear power to
Chandrayaan 2 but now we have decided to put it off for time being as we don't want further delay in launch which is scheduled for 2017-18," said ISRO satellite centre director M Annadurai.
Quote from:
The second lunar mission was l scheduled for launch in 2013 as joint operation between India and Russia. But after failure of Russia’s Phobos-Grunt, mission to probe Maritian moon, it decided to do an internal assessment of its programme.
Quote from:
India then decided to make Chandryaan 2 as a completely indigenous mission with all three components of the mission orbiter, lander and rover made in the country.
Quote from:
"Once we get the material we have to do necessary experiments which will further delay the mission. There has been some delay in getting material from Russia," he said.
Quote from:
Quote
ISRO is now looking forward to use the nuclear powered mission in future projects.
"We plan to take Chandrayaan 3 and 4 in near future and we may use nuclear power in those missions. By that time we will be completely ready with the materials and other things," he added.
Quote from:
India plans to have a high altitude polar landing of Chandrayaan 2 and it will have a capability to soft land and carry in-situ chemical analysis of the lunar surface. A new throttled engine is being developed that will reduce the thrust for landing on the surface of the moon.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Ohsin on 02/04/2016 09:20 pm
Here is a slide on OHRC camera (Orbiter High Resolution Camera) that would image landing site at 0.25 m resolution from 100 km orbit taken from presentation at NRSC UIM 2016

http://livestream.nrsc.gov.in/CartoSession-4.html
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: ss1_3 on 02/16/2016 03:47 pm
Not sure if this official VSSC payload info has been posted before:

http://spl.gov.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=99&Itemid=679&lang=en

Quote

 Chandrayaan-2 is the second Indian Lunar Mission which will be launched in near future. Chandrayaan-2 consist of an Orbiter, a Lander and a Rover. SPL, VSSC, has the following experiments onboard Chandryaan-2 orbiter and Lander.

•CHACE-2 (CHandra's Altitudinal Composition Explorer) onboard Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter
•ChaSTE (Chandra’s Surface Thermophysical Experiment) on Chandrayaan-2 Lander
•RAMBHA (Radio Anatomy of Moon Bound Hypersensitive ionosphere and Atmosphere) on Chandrayaan-2 Lander, which consisting Langmuir Probe (LP), Dual Frequency Radio Science(DFRS) experiment and radio sounder.



Quote

CHACE-2 (CHandra's Atmospheric Composition Explorer-2) on Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter

The CHACE-2 experiment aboard the Chandrayaan-2 orbiter will study the neutral composition of the Lunar exosphere from a circular polar orbit of ~100 km. The CHACE-2 instrument will be similar to MENCA. Apart from obtaining mass spectra of the tenuous Lunar exosphere, the instrument will have capability of tracking the distribution of a pre-selected set of species with higher temporal resolution.

Quote

ChaSTE (Chandra’s Surface Thermophysical Experiment)

 ChaSTE is one of the scientific experiment on the Lander of the Chandrayaan-2 mission. ChaSTE is a thermal probe with the  objective of making in-situ measurements of temperature profile on the lunar surface up to a depth of 100 mm near the polar region, and the measurements of thermal conductivity of lunar regolith. ChaSTE would be the first-ever in-situ thermal measurements on lunar surface near the polar region.

Quote
RAMBHA (Radio Anatomy of Moon Bound Hypersensitive ionosphere and Atmosphere)

The RAMBHA experiment onboard the forthcoming Chandrayaan-2 Lander mission is a unique payload package that would provide a comprehensive exploration of Lunar plasma environment. RAMBHA is conceived as a suite of three experiments, viz. (i) a Langmuir Probe and (iii) a dual frequency radio science (DFRS) experiment.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 02/29/2016 05:50 am
ISRO chief signals India's readiness for Chandrayaan II mission

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mangaluru/ISRO-chief-signals-Indias-readiness-for-Chandrayaan-II-mission/articleshow/51178528.cms
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Ohsin on 03/12/2016 10:55 am
Quote
Chandrayaan-1 finds signatures of recent shallow moonquakes‏
<snip>
The moonquakes may also provide new insights about mechanism of earthquakes, Kumar said adding that ISRO's Moon rover in the Chandrayaan-II mission slated for 2017 should, therefore, carry a seismometer to study these activities in the Schrödinger basin.

http://www.natureasia.com/en/nindia/article/10.1038/nindia.2016.34

Could it be pulled without any delay?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: antriksh on 03/28/2016 03:09 am
Lunar rover for Chandrayan II Lunar Mission: 3D Map Generation using Structured Light, Kinematics, and Path Planning (http://www.iitk.ac.in/directions/Directions_2015_01/lunarrover_chandrayanIIlunarmission_profduttavenkatesh.pdf)

Quote
we have described the development of the rover and a map generation system for 3D terrain using structured light
for a six wheel rover navigation problem. A structured light system enables the detection and estimation of
both positive and negative obstacles. The structured light system is capable of working even in high lux
environments to deliver highly accurate maps that can reach sub millimetre accuracies

Quote
As specified by ISRO, the design of the rover is based on the well proven space rover “Sojourner” that has been
deployed for the exploration of Mars since July, 1997. It has 6 wheels, all of which are driven by DC brushless
servo motors. The front and the rear wheels also have steering motors. The rover has two rocker arms connected
to the rover body through a differential. Each
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 03/28/2016 10:04 am
Thanks antriksh! Good to see CY2 shaping up well...
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Ohsin on 03/28/2016 11:17 am
There were some misunderstandings between IIT-K and ISRO about this job. Only software is relevant not hardware.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: plutogno on 04/07/2016 09:58 am
from Aviation Week:
The Payloads Of India’s Upcoming Moon Mission

http://aviationweek.com/space/payloads-india-s-upcoming-moon-mission?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20160407_AW-05_460
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 05/28/2016 12:18 am
Quote
Chandrayaan-2, India’s second mission to the Moon, consists of an Orbiter, Lander and Rover configuration. It is totally an indigenous mission, planned to be launched by GSLV-MkII during the first quarter of 2018. A major milestone of the spacecraft level Preliminary Design Review (PDR) has been completed in the month of May 2015.

Orbiter Craft: The primary structure has been realised and delivered to the integration team for the integration with other subsystems which will begin from Dec 2015. Some of the mainframe systems are realised and some are in the Test and Evaluation phase. The Payloads are being realised at various centres and few are in an advanced stage of development. The equipment panel layouts are in the final stage of release. Interfaces between Orbiter and GSLV-Mk II has been finalised.

Lander Craft: The Lander Craft configuration has been finalised for a safe and soft landing at the identified site. The mission critical elements of sensors and actuators for a safe and soft landing are being developed at various centres. The development/qualification models are expected to be delivered in the middle of 2016. The special tests to verify the integral performance of all sensors, actuators and software in a closed loop are planned in the middle of 2016. Accommodation study of all elements has been completed. The 800 N Liquid Engines have undergone High Altitude Test (HAT) for a duration of 513 sec successfully. A Standing Technical Review committee (STRC) met and is overseeing the overall progress of the new Advanced technologies present in the lander.

Rover: The Engineering model of six wheeled rover is being realised. Navigation Camera, Inclinometer, Rover imager and mechanism hardware are ready for integration. The other systems are in the final stages of fabrication. The illumination setup for the lunar terrain test facility has been commissioned.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 06/26/2016 06:43 pm
(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/chandrayaan2-will-be-indias-second-lunar-exploration-mission-after-picture-id526309620)

(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/chandrayaan2-will-be-indias-second-lunar-exploration-mission-after-picture-id526309624)

(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/chandrayaan2-will-be-indias-second-lunar-exploration-mission-after-picture-id526309958)

(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/chandrayaan2-will-be-indias-second-lunar-exploration-mission-after-picture-id526309626)

(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/chandrayaan2-will-be-indias-second-lunar-exploration-mission-after-picture-id526309612)

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 08/09/2016 06:09 pm
Hat tip: Antariksh at r/isro (https://www.reddit.com/r/ISRO/comments/4wfkry/chandrayaan_2_updates/)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: chota on 08/10/2016 08:56 pm
 8)

From above, its now clear what will be the specific shape and outline of the Orbiter, Lander and Rover.

The rover size shown in "Open field test between lander and rover at HAL airport" image is misleading. On closer observation, looks like Rover is a cropped up image. It might be half the height of that chair.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 08/14/2016 07:44 pm
CHACE-2 payload info from ISRO SPL 2014-25 annual report (http://spl.gov.in/annreport/SPL-AR-2015.pdf).
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 08/14/2016 07:47 pm
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 09/10/2016 04:09 am
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/road-clear-for-chandrayaan2/article9091414.ece

Quote
The interfaces between GSLV-Mk II and Chandrayaan-2 have already been finalised, according to officials in the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).

A GSLV-Mk II vehicle will put Chandrayaan-2 with a lander and a rover into orbit in the first quarter of 2018. It will be a totally indigenous mission — the vehicle, the spacecraft, the lander and the rover are all made in India. The orbiter (that is, the spacecraft), the lander and rover together will weigh 3,280 kg. After the spacecraft is inserted into the lunar orbit, the lander with the rover inside it will separate and land softly on the moon’s surface.

The lander will have a throttleable engine for performing a soft landing and four sites have been short-listed for this. After it touches down on a flat surface on the moon, the 25-kg rover — which is a kind of a toy car — will emerge from it. It will have six wheels, made of aluminium, to move about on the lunar soil. The wheels will interact in such a way that the rover does not sink. The rover will move at a speed of two cm a second. Its lifetime on the moon is 14 earth days; it will have two payloads for analysing the soil’s chemical properties.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: ZachS09 on 09/10/2016 10:44 am
Let me guess:

The reason why the GSLV Mk.2 is being used to launch Chandrayaan 2 instead of the PSLV-XL is because the orbiter, lander and rover are heavier than Chandrayaan 1?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 09/10/2016 03:56 pm
Let me guess:

The reason why the GSLV Mk.2 is being used to launch Chandrayaan 2 instead of the PSLV-XL is because the orbiter, lander and rover are heavier than Chandrayaan 1?
Yes.

Since the total weight of the spacecraft is specified as 3.2 tonnes, I wonder what kind of orbit GSLV would initially deploy it to. Can it deploy that kind of weight to a sub-GTO, as was the case in  Chandrayaan-1?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: savuporo on 09/10/2016 05:33 pm
A GSLV-Mk II vehicle will put Chandrayaan-2 with a lander and a rover into orbit in the first quarter of 2018. It will be a totally indigenous mission — the vehicle, the spacecraft, the lander and the rover are all made in India.
This is super encouraging. Had they gone with this approach from the get go, it likely would have been done by now.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 09/10/2016 08:54 pm
I thought GSLV Mk-II was always the launcher envisioned for Chandrayaan-2 -- again, as you say, because of the heavier payload weight of orbiter and lander. I'd hoped that LVM3 might eventually become the launcher for that mission, but I guess it offered no advantage. (They could have made the rover bigger and included more instruments, but I guess they didn't see a need to upscale the mission)

Are they still going to do those multiple loops around the Earth with Oberth effect, or can they try for trans-lunar injection more directly?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 09/28/2016 09:12 pm
Cross posting @---'s post in GSLV cryo discussion thread

As I expected, since GSLV MK-II's Cryogenic Upper Stage does NOT have multiple restartable capability, it will launch the Chandrayaan-2 into a parking orbit similar to GTO.

Here is the report from Frontline Magazine Science Section

Quote
G. Nagesh, Project Director, Chandrayaan-2, said the orbiter, the lander and the rover were together called the composite module. The GSLV-Mk II will first place this composite module in an orbit of 170 km by 19,500 km, called earth-parking orbit. From there, with the help of the liquid engines in the orbiter, we will take Chandrayaan-2 to the moon’s orbit of 100 km, he said. It is exactly the same as Chandrayaan-1's orbit. Once Chandrayaan-2 (that is, the composite module) is in the lunar orbit, ISRO will beam commands to it for the lander to fly out of the orbiter.


Source : Cryogenic gains for GSLV (http://www.frontline.in/science-and-technology/cryogenic-gains-for-gslv/article9153824.ece)

--- [ --- ]

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: worldtimedate on 09/29/2016 05:37 am
Quote
Asked how a GSLV-Mk II vehicle could take the 3,280-kg Chandrayaan-2 into orbit when even future GSLV-Mk II rockets could carry only satellites weighing around 2,800 kg into orbit, Umamaheswaran replied that since Chandrayaan-2 would be first parked in its initial orbit of 180 km by 20,000 km, it would indeed be possible. It would be different from the GSLV-F05 mission, where the 2,211-kg INSAT-3DR had to be put into a geosynchronous transfer orbit of 170 km by 35,000 km.

Source : Cryogenic gains for GSLV (http://www.frontline.in/science-and-technology/cryogenic-gains-for-gslv/article9153824.ece)

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: worldtimedate on 09/29/2016 06:20 am
Recent Frontline Magazine Science Section has valueable information on Chandrayaan-2 Mission.

Quote
Ready for Chandrayaan-2

The mission's success signalled two things. One, the GSLV-Mk II with an indigenous cryogenic upper stage is "more than qualified", as M. Annadurai, Director, ISRO Satellite Centre (ISAC), Bengaluru, described it, to put Chandrayaan-2 into orbit. The other, the GSLV-Mk II rocket has become a candidate in the launch market to put the two-tonne class of satellites into orbit. It is all set to complement ISRO's Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV), which, with its string of 35 consecutive successes, has consolidated itself as a robust, reliable vehicle for putting small satellites into orbit.

The real significance of the GSLV-F05 mission's success is that it has cleared the road for the Chandrayaan-2 mission and boosted the morale of the Chandrayaan-2 project team at ISAC, Bengaluru. Chandrayaan-2 will be a totally indigenous mission, with the launch vehicle (GSLV-Mk II), the spacecraft, the lander and the rover, all made by ISRO.

While the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC) will build the GSLV-Mk II that will put Chandrayaan-2 into orbit, teams in ISAC are busy building the orbiter, the lander and the rover.

Annadurai said: "Basically, Chandrayaan-2 calls for a GSLV. The latest [GSLV-F05] success indicates that the GSLV is also in the category of the PSLV, which has had a string of successes. It was the PSLV, its XL version, which put both Chandrayaan-1 and our spacecraft to Mars into orbit. Thus, the PSLV played a major role in the successes of both Chandrayaan-1 and our Mars spacecraft missions. Similarly, the GSLV-F05 mission's success gives us the confidence that a GSLV-Mk II vehicle will put Chandrayaan-2 into orbit. The GSLV-F05's triumph will galvanise us to realise the Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft, the lander and rover at the earliest so that we can aim for a lift-off by 2017-end from Sriharikota."

Teams are working in full swing at ISAC to realise the orbiter, lander and rover. The interfaces between the orbiter and the GSLV-Mk II have been finalised and the rover's engineering model is ready. The rover will have six wheels made of aluminium, a navigation camera and an inclinometer. The orbiter, the lander and the rover together weigh 3,280 kg; the rover weighs 25 kg and the lander 935 kg.

G. Nagesh, Project Director, Chandrayaan-2, said the orbiter, the lander and the rover were together called the composite module. The GSLV-Mk II will first place this composite module in an orbit of 170 km by 19,500 km, called earth-parking orbit. "From there, with the help of the liquid engines in the orbiter, we will take Chandrayaan-2 to the moon's orbit of 100 km," he said. It is exactly the same as Chandrayaan-1's orbit. Once Chandrayaan-2 (that is, the composite module) is in the lunar orbit, ISRO will beam commands to it for the lander to fly out of the orbiter. This will happen at an identified time, depending on the Sun-Moon-Earth gravity. The lander has a pyramidal structure.

"The lander will land at an identified site on the moon. Once the lander touches down, a ramp will deploy and the rover will come out, rolling down the ramp. Both the lander and the rover will perform experiments on the moon," said Nagesh.

Annadurai said that for the lander to make a soft landing on the lunar soil, matching the lunar gravity, it needs to have throttle-able engines. "This is a major technology. Over and above that, the lander should do in-place navigation and [be able to] find hazards. In case of hazards, it should go around and land [in a suitable] place. These two things are new to us," he said.

The rover will roll down a ramp from the lander on six aluminium wheels which should interact properly. "If they don't interact properly, there is a possibility that the rover will sink into the lunar soil," Annadurai said. The rover has batteries which are charged by solar panels. Each wheel will be driven by a motor. "This is what makes the rover move forward and backward. We use the principle of skid-steering to enable the rover to take turns, negotiate hazards, etc.," he said.

The rover will move at a speed of one to two cm a second. After it traverses a distance of say, five metres, the navigation cameras on board will take pictures of the lunar surface and the images will be sent to the ground. Annadurai said, "We will analyse the [best] path to follow and direct this command [to the rover] to move on that path." The rover will do all the operations during the lunar day. Its life is one lunar day, or 14 earth days. It has two payloads to analyse the chemical properties of the lunar soil.

The lander will perform three experiments: analyse seismic activity on the moon's surface; measure plasma and electron content on the lunar surface; and study temperatures below the moon's soil. The orbiter, from its perch in the lunar orbit, will do mineralogical mapping of the moon's soil.

Asked how a GSLV-Mk II vehicle could take the 3,280-kg Chandrayaan-2 into orbit when even future GSLV-Mk II rockets could carry only satellites weighing around 2,800 kg into orbit, Umamaheswaran replied that since Chandrayaan-2 would be first parked in its initial orbit of 180 km by 20,000 km, it would indeed be possible. It would be different from the GSLV-F05 mission, where the 2,211-kg INSAT-3DR had to be put into a geosynchronous transfer orbit of 170 km by 35,000 km.

Source : Cryogenic gains for GSLV (http://www.frontline.in/science-and-technology/cryogenic-gains-for-gslv/article9153824.ece)

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 10/06/2016 09:07 pm
ISRO to pratice Moon Landing in ‘no-fly zone’ in Bengaluru for Chandrayaan-II mission (http://tecake.in/news/science/isro-pratice-moon-landing-no-fly-zone-bengaluru-chandrayaan-ii-mission-24337.html)
Quote
In order to help Indian space scientists overcome the challenges of landing on Moon and Mars, researchers will fly a small aircraft breaching the ‘no fly zone’ rules over Bengaluru. What’s striking is that the aircraft will carry a special payload of country’s second lunar mission — Chandrayaan-II. The aircraft will drop the payload over a scooped out area in order to mimic lunar surface with large craters and check whether the scientists can successfully touch down the surface.
Quote
“This is the first time we are going to attempt to land on the Moon, so we want to be meticulous with our computation and technology,” said officials from ISRO. The lunar rover will monitor surface of Moon and it will rely on the Orbiter High Resolution Camera (OHRC) for accurate inputs. The rover weighs 20kg and harnesses the power from Sun.
Quote
Space scientists said the orbiter would circle the Moon at an altitude of 100 km with five instruments onboard. Three of these would be new, while two others would be improved versions of ones flown onboard Chandrayaan-I. The orbiter would help beam scientific data garnered by the rover from the Moon’s soil.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 10/09/2016 01:11 am
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Visakhapatnam/isro-bracing-to-deploy-rover-on-lunar-surface/article9203827.ece

Quote
India is getting ready to deploy an indigenously developed rover on the lunar surface for on-site analysis of various samples and relay them to the earth station.

Senior ISRO scientist and Deputy Director of Satish Dhawan Space Centre V. Ranganathan told The Hindu on Saturday that they were in advance stages of deploying the rover. The timing of its launch is not yet finalised.

Chandrayaan-II Mission includes launching of lunar explorations by geosynchronous launch vehicles (GSLV Mk-II) with clinical precision. The wheeled rover would be useful in using multiple applications by collecting soil and rock sediments for on-site analysis and transmitting the findings to the earth station.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: worldtimedate on 10/15/2016 05:15 am
Quote
He added that various tests related to Chandrayan 2 mission is under progress and it is expected to take place by the end of next year, while another planetary mission Aditya to study Sun is expected in 2018.

For Chandrayan 2, tests on controls over the lander and rover while landing on moon are to be tested by the end of this year and the early next year. Many of the activities are supported by student groups.

Source : Isro looking at putting a telescope on moon, says A S Kiran Kumar (http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/isro-looking-at-putting-a-telescope-on-moon-says-a-s-kiran-kumar-116101401285_1.html)

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 10/24/2016 10:21 pm
Quote
ISRO starts landing tests for Chandrayaan-2 mission

Simulated lunar craters created in Chitradurga to plan Lander’s descent

The Indian Space Research Organsiation started a series of ground and aerial tests linked to the critical Moon landing of Chandrayaan-2 on Friday, at its new site at Challakere in Chitradurga district, 400 km from Bengaluru.

ISRO Satellite Centre or ISAC, the lead centre for the second Moon mission, has artificially created close to ten craters to simulate the lunar terrain and test the Lander’s sensors.

A small ISRO aircraft has been carrying equipment with sensors over these craters to plan the tasks ahead.

ISRO, along with a host of other scientific and strategic agencies, owns vast land for its future missions at Challakere, in a ‘Science City.’

ISAC Director M.Annadurai told The Hindu, “The campaign for the Lander tests of Chandrayaan-2 has started. Tests are conducted over the simulated craters at Chitradurga. We are using an aircraft to assess whether the sensors on the Lander will do their job [later] of identifying the landing spot on the Moon.”

Chandrayaan-2 is tentatively set for late 2017 or early 2018 and includes soft-landing on Moon and moving a rover on its surface.

‘Complicated task’
Landing on an alien surface is very complicated, said Dr. Annadurai, who was also the Project Director for the successful Chandrayaan-1 lunar mission of 2008.

In the coming months up to March, ISAC would conduct many tests: on avionics and electronics; testing the Lander’s legs, followed by a combined full test, at Bengaluru and Chitradurga.

The mission includes an Orbiter, a Lander and a Rover, all being readied at ISAC in Bengaluru. The Orbiter spacecraft when launched from Sriharikota will travel to the Moon and release the Lander, which will in turn deploy a tiny Rover to roam the lunar surface — all three sending data and pictures to Earth.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/isro-starts-landing-tests-for-chandrayaan2-mission/article9262825.ece
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 10/25/2016 05:23 am
Huh, I didn't notice until now that while the lander will probably be the 1st spacecraft to land on the lunar poles, the lander instruments are oriented towards the lunar interior (seismic instrument, thermal probe, Langmuir probe) with the only surface geology oriented instruments being the APXS and laser spectrometer on the rover, which isn't planned to survive the 1st lunar night. Isn't that a bit strange?  :-\

Also I don't see any scientific oriented cameras on the lander and rover - though I guess there must be some on the lander to monitor the rover deployment? I wonder what are their specifications and abilities to do detailed observations of the landing site? ???
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: ZachS09 on 10/25/2016 03:17 pm
Has ISRO given a name for the rover? We already know that the orbiter will be "Chandrayaan 2".
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 10/25/2016 04:27 pm
Has ISRO given a name for the rover? We already know that the orbiter will be "Chandrayaan 2".
Not heard any. But considering the highly imaginative name they gave to the Mars mission, I hope it isn't 'Moon Rover'.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: ZachS09 on 10/25/2016 06:44 pm
What if they named the rover "Khojakarta"?

It means "Explorer" in Hindi.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Phil Stooke on 10/25/2016 11:49 pm
Keep it in mind!  They might have a competition to name it.  China has done and is doing that.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 10/26/2016 03:19 am
How do they do these landing tests, anyway? And with what kind of aircraft? I'm picturing in my head a hexacopter drone, equipped with sensors that would be used on the lander - would that fill the bill? Could you simulate a lunar lander using a hexacopter-style of drone? What would be required for a reasonably accurate simulation?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 10/27/2016 11:19 am
ISRO chief Dr S Kiran Kumar gave a presentation on Chandrayaan-1 at IUCCA (Inter-University Centre for Astronomy and Astrophysics) and the tail end of his talk included a little bit on Chandrayaan-2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYUsCgLt19w
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 10/28/2016 07:22 am
Slides from the presentation.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 11/15/2016 04:12 am
ISRO approximates a lunar landscape to help simulate the Chandrayaan-2 landing:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/Isro-creates-a-Moon-in-Challakere-to-simulate-Chandrayaan-2-landing/articleshow/55419030.cms
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Phil Stooke on 11/15/2016 12:17 pm
"The life expectancy of the lander and the orbiter as estimated now is one (Earth) day, which means 14 lunar days."

Let us hope the landing simulations are more accurate than the lunar calendar simulations.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 11/19/2016 07:14 am
"The life expectancy of the lander and the orbiter as estimated now is one (Earth) day, which means 14 lunar days."

Let us hope the landing simulations are more accurate than the lunar calendar simulations.

Heh, I think that's just the Indian media again - they're often a poor intermediary for spreading accurate info to the public.  :-[
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/19/2016 11:46 pm
The launch date in the title is now listed as December 2018. Where did this information come from? I couldn't find it in any recent posts or in the launch manifest.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 02/09/2017 02:53 pm
http://pib.gov.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=158310

Quote
Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has started a series of ground tests for testing the performance of sensors and actuators for soft landing of the Lander on the lunar surface.   

Special tests for new systems in Lander have been identified and a Lander Sensors Performance Test over artificial craters created in Chitradurga district in Karnataka, has been conducted. Lunar Terrain Test facility is ready for Lander drop test and Rover mobility tests.

ISRO is working towards the launch of Chandrayaan-2 during the first quarter of 2018. The Chandrayaan-2 comprises of indigenous Orbiter, Lander and Rover. After reaching the 100 km lunar orbit, the Lander housing the Rover will separate from the Orbiter. After a controlled descent, the Lander will soft land on the lunar surface at a specified site and deploy a Rover. The instruments on the rover will collect data for analysis of the lunar soil.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 02/16/2017 04:28 pm
Ok. We are getting closer..

Lunar lander ready to be tested (http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/ISRO-gearing-up-forsecond-moon-mission/article17313134.ece)

Quote
The static test of the lander module of Chandrayaan- 2 will be held at the ISRO Propulsion Complex, Mahendragiri, by the end of February.

Director, Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre (LPSC), S. Somanath, told The Hindu that the test would measure the performance of the propulsion system of the lander module.

Mr.Somanath said the soft landing involved in the Chandrayaan- 2 mission required special propulsion and control systems and complex electronics. The lander would have four engines to make a controlled descent from the orbiter.

For the static test, the craft would be mounted on a frame and the four engines fired at varying thrust.

A month later, another lander module, a replica of the first one, would be tested in a suspended state. The craft would be hung from a crane and the engines fired to move the module in different directions and simulate a soft landing.

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: worldtimedate on 02/16/2017 07:30 pm
Ok. We are getting closer..

Lunar lander ready to be tested (http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/ISRO-gearing-up-forsecond-moon-mission/article17313134.ece)

Quote
The static test of the lander module of Chandrayaan- 2 will be held at the ISRO Propulsion Complex, Mahendragiri, by the end of February.

Director, Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre (LPSC), S. Somanath, told The Hindu that the test would measure the performance of the propulsion system of the lander module.

Mr.Somanath said the soft landing involved in the Chandrayaan- 2 mission required special propulsion and control systems and complex electronics. The lander would have four engines to make a controlled descent from the orbiter.

For the static test, the craft would be mounted on a frame and the four engines fired at varying thrust.

A month later, another lander module, a replica of the first one, would be tested in a suspended state. The craft would be hung from a crane and the engines fired to move the module in different directions and simulate a soft landing.


I am concerned about the launcher GSLV MK-II. It has not yet attained higher capability yet. It needs to be launched 2 to 3 times more before it launches the Chandrayaan 2 which will have a lift off mass of 3250 Kg.

Launch mass :
Combined: 3,250 kg (7,170 lb)

Payload mass :
Orbiter: 1,400 kg (3,100 lb)
Rover: 20 kg (44 lb)

ISRO has to ramp up its Launcher Capability, otherwise the gain it made by launching Chandrayan 1 that discovered water in the Moon and sending Mangalyaan at the first attempt will lose its advantage. Because of the heavier launch capability Launcher China's moon mission has raced away faster than India's.

--- [ --- ]

Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 02/16/2017 07:54 pm


I am concerned about the launcher GSLV MK-II. It has not yet attained higher capability yet. It needs to be launched 2 to 3 times more before it launches the Chandrayaan 2 which will have a lift off mass of 3250 Kg.

Launch mass :
Combined: 3,250 kg (7,170 lb)

Payload mass :
Orbiter: 1,400 kg (3,100 lb)
Rover: 20 kg (44 lb)

ISRO has to ramp up its Launcher Capability, otherwise the gain it made by launching Chandrayan 1 that discovered water in the Moon and sending Mangalyaan at the first attempt will lose its advantage. Because of the heavier launch capability Launcher China's moon mission has raced away faster than India's.

--- [ --- ]

Chandrayaan-II will likely be launched only by the later half of 2018 after completion of all the tests, and GSLV is likely to make 2-3 flights more by then. And we need to bear in mind that GSLV would be deploying CY-II to a sub-GTO orbit like the PSLV does in case of IRNSS sats.

And why do we even need to worry about China in this? Its not as if ISRO is in a race with the Chinese to win a prize or anything, in any case.   Lets assume thay they do their missions at a pace that matches their requirements,  and we does as per ours.

Thats said, I do think ISRO needs to ramp up its launch capability fast (which they might be doing at the best of their abilities), but that is more in the context of meeting the requirements for heavy GEO sats.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 02/22/2017 07:33 am
From the Annual Report 2016-17 (http://www.isro.gov.in/annual-report-2016-2017-english)
Quote
Orbiter Craft
Primary structure of Orbiter Craft has been realised. Fabrication of panels is in progress. Configuration of mainframe systems and payloads was completed. Integration of mainframe systems including propulsion elements was expected to commence from December 2016. Payloads from various centres are in advanced stages of realisation and expected to be delivered in first quarter of 2017 for integration.

Lander Craft
Lander configuration is finalised to meet the soft and safe landing at the identified site. Payload configuration and interfaces with lander are finalised. Engineering models of mission critical
sensors, namely, Ka-Band Radio Altimeter (KaRA) and Lander Pattern Detection Camera (LPDC) from SAC and Laser Inertial Reference & Accelerometer Package (LIRAP) from IISU have been realised and performance tested in Lander Sensor Performance Test (LSPT), Phase-1 over artificial craters created, at Chitradurga in Karnataka. System Demonstration Module (SDM) realisation for evaluating the performance of Lander propulsion system with throttlable engines, Lander
Actuator Performance Test (LAPT) configuration and Lander electrical packages required for LAPT are in advanced stage of completion. Engineering model of Lander Leg was realised and single leg drop tests were completed. A facility has been established at Lunar Terrain Test Facility for conducting lander leg drop tests.

Rover
All the rover flight systems are in advanced stage of realisation. Soil mixing exercise is completed and the mobility test to evaluate the Rover’s wheel – soil interaction is under progress.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 02/25/2017 11:49 pm
http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2017/feb/15/chandrayaan-2-gets-russian-technology-to-analyse-lunar-surface-1570722.html

Quote
The Russian firm, Joint Stock Company Isotope, which is part of the Russian Federation National Nuclear Corporation (ROSATOM) has supplied Radionuclide Curium (Cm-244) alpha emitter to the Physical Research Laboratory, Ahmedabad. It will help analyse lunar surface and rocks, according to ROSATOM South Asia spokesperson, Alexander Antipin.

He said the alpha emitter, manufactured by Russian State Scientific Centre-Research Institute of Atomic Reactors (JSC SSC RIAR), will be installed on Alpha Proton X-Ray Spectrometer to help the ISRO’s lunar exploration mission.

Russia had supplied similar products to the US for the launching of three NASA expeditions -- Mars Pathfinder (1997), Opportunity (2004) and Curiosity (2012).
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 03/01/2017 07:07 pm
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/chandrayaan-2-to-measure-water-on-the-moon-misra/articleshow/57400214.cms

Quote
Ahmedabad: Work on some of the critical sensors of the Chandrayaan-2 mission is nearing completion at the Space Applications Centre (SAC) and the Physical Research Laboratory (PRL).

These include three major payloads — scientific probes, crucial sensors and communication equipment that will be present in the orbiter, Lander and the Rover of the Chandrayaan-2 mission.

The latest sensors will help Isro validate, confirm and even make more crucial in-depth discoveries of the moon's topography in continuation to Chandrayaan-1 discoveries. While Chandrayaan-1 found water on the moon, SAC has mounted a synthetic aperture radar (SAR) providing L and S band readings on the Chandrayaan-2 orbiter that will help calculate the amount of water on the moon.

"The SAR through differential readings can provide us an idea of the volume of water on moon surface," said SAC director Tapan Misra on the sidelines of the National Science Day celebrations at SAC. The orbiter will also carry three separate hyperspectral cameras that will map the terrain of the moon, including providing information on the mineralogy of the moon surface.

Besides the orbiter, SAC is providing the Rover with a high definition camera and a scientific probe, developed at Physical Research Laboratory (PRL) to conduct on-site mineral investigations of the moon soil and rocks.
SAC officials claim that a new innovation onboard the Chandrayaan-2 is special radar altimeter that will help the Lander to orient itself while it lands on the moon surface safely. The same altimeter will be used for a small test flight of the human space flight mission.

The hi-tech SAC payloads will now be sent to Ahmedabad to be installed on Chnadrayaan-2 mission to carry out tests.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 03/02/2017 05:37 am
http://zeenews.india.com/space/chandrayaan-2-mission-india-may-launch-its-second-mission-to-moon-in-first-quarter-of-2018-says-isro-chief_1982630.html

Quote
The ISRO chief while delivering a speech at the seventh annual convocation of Vels University on Wednesday said that tests were underway for a controlled landing of the spacecraft on the surface of the moon.

"ISRO will develop an engine that will help in the controlled landing on the moon. The mission is currently planned for the first quarter of 2018," he said, adding that scientists had developed an artificial crater to simulate the surface of lunar conditions for the landing experiments.

He further revealed that a series of ground tests is also in progress at the ISRO facility in Mahendragiri, Tirunelveli district, and in Challakere, in Chitradurga district near Bengaluru. "The satellite is also getting ready," he added.

Quote
Chandrayaan 2, which consists of an Orbiter, Lander and Rover configuration, is an advanced version of the previous Chandrayaan-1 mission.

It is planned to be launched as a composite stack into the Earth Parking Orbit (EPO) of 170 X 18,500 km by GSLV-Mk II, as per the Indian Space Research Organisation.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 03/06/2017 08:24 pm
Some post on Quora.com gives the landing coordinates as the following:

https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-landing-site-selection-for-Chandrayaan-2-done

Quote
Main site: 87.2 deg S, 68 deg E
Backup site: 88.5 deg S, 297 deg E

Where exactly are these locations? What are the major features over there?
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Phil Stooke on 03/06/2017 11:45 pm
Sorry to disappoint you but those are very old locations from a site study done in 2010 when Chandrayaan 2 was still a joint Russian-Indian mission.  The most recent report on the site selection was this one in 2015:

http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2015/pdf/1351.pdf (http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2015/pdf/1351.pdf)

A 2016 presentation in Turkey was halted when the conference was cancelled, so there is no more recent update, as far as I know.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 03/07/2017 01:55 am
Ah, thanks very much for that - I see that the proposed Cabeus Crater landing site is ~150km from the Shackleton Crater landing site where Bezos would like to set up a moonbase.

I guess ISRO has picked the same general vicinity because it means longer solar illumination that won't necessitate the use of nuclear RTGs to keep the rover from freezing at night? And of course it also has the permanently shadowed regions (cold traps) where water ice might still persist.

So is this region going to be the Lunar Mesopotamia, most friendly to potential colonization efforts?
(and thus eventually the most contested, down the road)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: chota on 05/02/2017 05:46 pm
Is that Chandrayaan-2

http://aviationweek.com/awinspace/india-makes-progress-chandrayaan-2-payloads

Photo Credits: Aviationweek/ Isro

(http://aviationweek.com/site-files/aviationweek.com/files/imagecache/medium_img/uploads/2016/04/chand.jpg)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Silmfeanor on 05/02/2017 06:23 pm
Is that Chandrayaan-2

http://aviationweek.com/awinspace/india-makes-progress-chandrayaan-2-payloads

Photo Credits: Aviationweek/ Isro


that seems to be a picture of NASAs LADEE -
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Atmosphere_and_Dust_Environment_Explorer
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Phil Stooke on 05/02/2017 09:07 pm
Yes, it's LADEE.  This link to Youtube (you don't need to watch the video) shows the name LADEE in the caption under the image:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMhSWGTHtF4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMhSWGTHtF4)

In fact the 'video' is a single still shot of LADEE with a voice-over describing Chandrayaan.  Weird!  As for the image showing up in AW&ST, their quality control isn't what it was.   
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 05/24/2017 08:34 am
ISRO to launch Chandrayaan 2 in first quarter of 2018:

http://wap.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/aiming-for-the-moon-isro-to-launch-chandrayaan-2-in-first-quarter-of-2018-117052400315_1.html
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 05/26/2017 09:37 pm
All you need to know about Chandrayaan-2, ISRO’s second mission to the moon:

http://tech.firstpost.com/news-analysis/all-you-need-to-know-about-chandrayaan-2-isros-second-mission-to-the-moon-378453.html
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 05/27/2017 05:32 am
The orbit, spacecraft and rover.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: worldtimedate on 07/30/2017 06:20 am
ISRO chairman A. S. Kiran Kumar confirms that ISRO is to launch Chandrayaan-2 mission in early 2018.

Source : India to see launch of 2 moon missions in early 2018 (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/india-to-see-launch-of-2-moon-missions-in-early-2018/articleshow/59828341.cms)

Quote
Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) will launch its Chandrayaan-2 mission, an advanced version of its previous 2018 mission with the objective of deeper lunar surface probe, and another mission by Team Indus, a group of space enthusiasts who want to unfurl the tricolour on the moon's surface as part of a global lunar competition.

Quote
While Team Indus is using the service of PSLV to take its 600-kg baby spacecraft to the lunar orbit, Isro will use its heavylift rocket GSLV Mk II for the mission. Dr K Sivan, director of Thiruvananthapuram-based Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, told TOI, "Unlike the 2008 Chandrayaan-1 mission when PSLV rocket was used for carrying the spacecraft, this time Isro is planning to take a heavier payload (combined launch mass: 3,250 kg) comprising orbiter, lander and rover to the moon. Therefore, GSLV Mk II is the preferred choice."

Highlights
    * Isro will use GSLV Mk II for Chandrayaan-2 as payload is heavier this time (combined launch mass 3,250 kg).
    * Orbiter will be deployed at an altitude of 100km above lunar surface.
    * Scientific payloads on board orbiter, lander and rover will perform mineralogical and elemental studies of lunar surface.

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 08/16/2017 04:07 pm
Chandrayaan-2 launch targeted for March 2018 according to ISRO sources (http://www.deccanchronicle.com/science/science/160817/chandrayaan-2-launch-likely-next-march.html)
Quote
The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is gearing up to launch the Chandrayaan-2 Mission in March next year, director of the Satish Dhawan Space Centre, SHAR, P. Kunhi Krishnan told media persons on the sidelines of the Independence Day celebrations at Sriharikota, on Tuesday.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 08/30/2017 01:55 am
The new edition of ISRO Satellite Center (ISAC) newsletter - Upagrah (Apr-Jun 2017) has an article on Chandrayaan-2 lander sensor tests on pages 8-9.

Link to Upagrah newsletters (http://www.isac.gov.in/publications/upagrah/index.jsp)
Direct link to PDF (http://www.isac.gov.in/publications/upagrah/pdf/Upagraha-Apr-June-2017.pdf)
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vyoma on 09/29/2017 06:08 pm
http://www.hindustantimes.com/science/isro-to-launch-chandrayaan-ii-in-march-2018/story-ZfSfKT8aWLFeCSxMGSFArJ.html

Quote
Indian Space Research Organisation’s second unmanned moon mission, Chandrayaan 2, will lift off in March 2018, a decade after Chandrayaan 1 was launched, Isro sources told Hindustan Times on Tuesday.
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: K210 on 10/23/2017 01:26 pm
GSLV MK-2 F-10 rocket carrying chandraayan-2 stack weighing 3280 kg will be launch in march of 2018.

Source: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/isro-to-launch-cartosat-2-sat-with-30-nano-sats-in-mid-december/articleshow/61176190.cms
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 10/25/2017 05:35 am
India gears up for second Moon mission:

https://www.nature.com/news/india-gears-up-for-second-moon-mission-1.22870
Title: Re: GSLV-MkII, Chandrayaan-2, NET 2018-Q1
Post by: chota on 11/22/2017 05:16 pm
C2 Orbiter and Lander with rover
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 11/30/2017 06:11 am
From Emily Lakdawalla's blog:

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2017/1129-indias-chandrayaan-2-mission.html
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Phillip Clark on 11/30/2017 12:28 pm
I wonder if the Indians will do as the Chinese did with Chang'E 3 and broadcast live pictures from the lander as it descends to the lunar surface ....... ?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Phil Stooke on 11/30/2017 10:21 pm
Were they transmitted live?  I thought they were recorded and transmitted later from the surface.  I could be wrong. 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Hungry4info3 on 12/01/2017 01:46 am
I remember it vividly. We got a snapshot every second or two, then the full video was uploaded back to Earth later.
Edit: Found the live broadcast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyg56VIKRNA
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: sanman on 12/01/2017 02:34 am
Meh, given ISRO's track record, live coverage of the landing would be quite a departure from past practice. They'll probably post it quickly to Twitter, after it's happened.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Phil Stooke on 12/01/2017 04:28 am
Thanks for that, Hungry!  I appreciate it.  I never did see that broadcast.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Dalhousie on 12/01/2017 04:48 am
I remember it vividly. We got a snapshot every second or two, then the full video was uploaded back to Earth later.
Edit: Found the live broadcast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyg56VIKRNA

I was in Thailand and watched it live on China TV.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: plutogno on 12/01/2017 05:34 am
I remember they were streamed live
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: worldtimedate on 12/03/2017 05:31 am
India's Chandrayaan-2 mission preparing for March 2018 launch (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2017/1129-indias-chandrayaan-2-mission.html)

Quote
The launch of the next Moon mission could be just four months away. India plans to return to the Moon in a big way with the ambitious Chandrayaan-2, which includes an orbiter, lander, and a small rover. If it all succeeds, it will be India's first soft landing on another world, and only the second such landing since the end of the Apollo and Luna era. For India, landing success would be "a stepping stone for future exploration missions to other planets," according to Indian Space Research Organisation Satellite Centre (ISAC) director M. Annadurai.

Quote
Chandrayaan-2 is planned to launch in March from ISRO's Sriharikota launch center aboard a Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mark 2 (GSLV Mk 2) rocket, making it ISRO's first deep-space launch on its newer, heavier launch vehicle. The combined mass of the three component spacecraft is 3250 kilograms, dramatically larger than the approximately 1300-kilogram mass of both Chandrayaan-1 and Mars Orbiter Mission, both of which launched on smaller Polar Satellite Launch Vehicles (PSLVs).

Quote
The GSLV will place Chandrayaan-2 into an elliptical Earth parking orbit, enlarging it over days or weeks with periapsis burns to raise the orbit apogee. Eventually, the apogee will be high enough that a burn can send the spacecraft on to a lunar transfer trajectory. A lunar orbit insertion burn will place Chandrayaan-2 into an elliptical orbit and the spacecraft will begin braking at periapsis to reduce its orbit to a 100-kilometer circle.

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: worldtimedate on 12/09/2017 07:57 pm
K. Sivan, VSSC Director now confirms the Chandrayaan-2 mission launch in March, 2018,

Quote
Sivan said, "After the Cartosat mission, the subsequent launch will be of Gsat-6A that will be lifted off by a GSLV Mk II rocket". "The launch of navigation satellite IRNSS-1I, which will replace the first navigation satellite IRNSS-1A, whose three atomic clocks (meant to provide precise locational data) had stopped working last year, is planned in February or March," he said, adding, "Next in line will be the Chandrayaan-2 mission, scheduled for launch in March."

Source : Isro will resume sat launches only from first week of 2018 (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-will-resume-sat-launches-only-from-first-week-of-2018/articleshow/61994345.cms)

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: worldtimedate on 01/13/2018 10:19 pm
Chandrayaan-2 set for bungee jump test in Mahendragiri hills of Tamil Nadu (http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil-nadu/2018/jan/13/chandrayaan-2-set-for-bungee-jump-test-in-mahendragiri-hills-of-tamil-nadu-1752404.html)

Quote
Scientists at the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) are set to conduct a breathtaking stunt at Mahendragiri hills in Tamil Nadu. A bungee jump is being planned for Chandrayaan-2 craft as part of soft landing tests using a 100-metre tall crane (as tall as a 10-storeyed building) specially built for the purpose.

Quote
Chandrayaan-2 is India’s most ambitious project as yet consisting of an orbiter, lander and a small rover. If it succeeds, it will be India’s first soft-landing on the Moon, and only the second such landing since the end of the Apollo and Luna missions.

Quote
He said the craft, weighing about half-a-tonne, will be lowered from 100 metres and ignited in a lower gravity condition like that of the Moon.

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/14/2018 06:45 pm
Chandrayaan-2 set for bungee jump test in Mahendragiri hills of Tamil Nadu (http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil-nadu/2018/jan/13/chandrayaan-2-set-for-bungee-jump-test-in-mahendragiri-hills-of-tamil-nadu-1752404.html)

Quote
Scientists at the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) are set to conduct a breathtaking stunt at Mahendragiri hills in Tamil Nadu. A bungee jump is being planned for Chandrayaan-2 craft as part of soft landing tests using a 100-metre tall crane (as tall as a 10-storeyed building) specially built for the purpose.

Isn't it a little late to be preparing to test soft landing?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/15/2018 05:29 am
Presumably not a test to figure out how to do it, but a test to check the final flight harware behaves as it should (like shake and bake).  One would hope so anyway!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/21/2018 05:31 pm
Has anyone (outside ISRO and/or free to comment) computed and shared monthly lunar launch windows for Chandrayaan-2?

Further, are the launch window constraints more relaxed, as this is not a direct trans-lunar injection?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/22/2018 04:42 am
Further, are the launch window constraints more relaxed, as this is not a direct trans-lunar injection?

Presumably, as it takes a certain of amount of time to reach the Moon, regardless of route chosen and that ISRO would like to land early in the Lunar day, this would mean the window would open for a few days each month.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 01/30/2018 04:40 pm
'Enhanced' GSLV MkII to launch Chandrayaan-II in April, says new ISRO Chief (http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/isro-chief-on-a-mission-to-cut-expenses-on-launches/article22597896.ece)
Quote
Among the innovations and value additions being developed is the augmentation of the GSLV Mark II launch vehicle. Dr. Sivan said its lifting capability would soon be enhanced from 2.2 tonnes to 3.3 tonnes. The capability then would go up by 1.5 times and would reflect in its per-kilo cost, which could make it quite competitive to future commercial users in the launchers market.

The first launch of the enhanced GSLV, after necessary tests and confirmations, will be the 3.2-tonne Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft, scheduled to be launched in April.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/31/2018 06:21 am
Where is the 1,100 kg or 50% payload increase (from 2.2 to 3.3 t) for GSLV Mk.II coming from?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: K210 on 01/31/2018 10:43 am
Where is the 1,100 kg or 50% payload increase (from 2.2 to 3.3 t) for GSLV Mk.II coming from?

Most likely from these upgrades:

- New high thrust vikas engine
- New C-15 cryogenic stage with increased thrust (95kn vs 75kn from old engine)
- Overall dry mass reduction
- Possible replacement of S139 with S200 to increase core burn time from 100 seconds to 130 seconds
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Kosmos2001 on 01/31/2018 12:03 pm
Does this version have a new name designation or is it just a plain GSLV Mk.II?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: K210 on 01/31/2018 12:26 pm
Does this version have a new name designation or is it just a plain GSLV Mk.II?

It will have the same name. It is just a natural evolution of the GSLV MK-2 not a complete new rocket.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: vineethgk on 01/31/2018 03:25 pm
Where is the 1,100 kg or 50% payload increase (from 2.2 to 3.3 t) for GSLV Mk.II coming from?

Most likely from these upgrades:

- New high thrust vikas engine
- New C-15 cryogenic stage with increased thrust (95kn vs 75kn from old engine)
- Overall dry mass reduction
- Possible replacement of S139 with S200 to increase core burn time from 100 seconds to 130 seconds
The last one about S-200 is perhaps unlikely as it would be a major change that will have an impact on the flight characteristics of the vehicle. Moreover, S-200 has a greater diameter than S-139 (3.2m vs 2.8m). What we have heard so far from ISRO sources are inert mass reduction, increased propellant load and increased thrust in CUS, and the thrust upgrade for Vikas engines.

However, the Chandrayaan-II flight may not necessarily require all of these upgrades despite its 3.2 tonne mass as the targeted parking orbit is lower than GTO (around 180x19500 km or so).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Kosmos2001 on 01/31/2018 07:15 pm
It will have the same name. It is just a natural evolution of the GSLV MK-2 not a complete new rocket.

Well, according to:

Most likely from these upgrades:

- New high thrust vikas engine
- New C-15 cryogenic stage with increased thrust (95kn vs 75kn from old engine)
- Overall dry mass reduction
- Possible replacement of S139 with S200 to increase core burn time from 100 seconds to 130 seconds

The last one about S-200 is perhaps unlikely as it would be a major change that will have an impact on the flight characteristics of the vehicle. Moreover, S-200 has a greater diameter than S-139 (3.2m vs 2.8m). What we have heard so far from ISRO sources are inert mass reduction, increased propellant load and increased thrust in CUS, and the thrust upgrade for Vikas engines.

In my opinion, these are substantially enough modifications to change the name of the launcher a little bit. There are different variants of the GSLV already: Mk.I, Mk.I+, Mk.II and Mk.II+. Each one of those uses an S139 instead of a S200.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET 2018-Q1
Post by: Phil Stooke on 02/01/2018 04:05 am
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/01/india-plans-tricky-and-unprecedented-landing-near-moon-s-south-pole (http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/01/india-plans-tricky-and-unprecedented-landing-near-moon-s-south-pole)

An article about Chandrayaan 2 with a note about its landing site.  See this site:

http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=6862&st=0&gopid=238499&#entry238499 (http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/index.php?showtopic=6862&st=0&gopid=238499&#entry238499)

for a map of the location and some other comments.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII April 2018
Post by: vineethgk on 02/05/2018 01:20 am
ISRO Chief hints that Chandrayaan-II could be delayed a bit, with GSLV MkIII D2 happening prior to that. The April launch quoted earlier may have been more of an optimistic target in any case..

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/isro-needs-4-years-to-catch-up-with-satellite-demand-dr-sivan/article22651083.ece

Quote
As a part of the three-year short-term action plan, immediate missions that we plan to do this year are the GSLV-F08 that will launch the GSAT-6A communication satellite [around February]. Then we will have a PSLV mission with navigation satellite IRNSS-1I. Then comes the second developmental flight D2 of GSLV-MkIII. It will launch the high throughput satellite GSAT-29. Later, GSAT-11, which will be our heaviest satellite as of now, will be launched from Kourou. The Chandrayaan-2 mission will be launched this year on another GSLV.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII April 2018
Post by: worldtimedate on 02/08/2018 07:01 am
The following news report discusses many startling details of ISRO'S ambitious Chandrayaan II mission -  likely to be launched in April - carrying an orbiter, a lander and a rover. After being launched into an elliptical earth parking orbit by the GSLV II, it will be gradually sent to the Moon by the onboard thrusters of Chandrayaan II through the slingshot or the raising of the orbit of the spacecraft just the way Chadrayaan I was sent.

Chandrayaan-2 mission: Rover to spend 14 days on moon's surface, says Isro chief (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-mission-rover-to-spend-14-days-on-moons-surface-says-isro-chief/articleshow/62782731.cms)

Quote
Unlike the first lunar mission when a PSLV rocket carried the spacecraft to the moon's orbit, this time heavy-payload lifter GSLV Mk II will launch the spacecraft weighing 3,290kg as the module will carry an orbiter, a rover and a lander to the moon.

Quote
Dr Sivan said, "After reaching the moon's orbit, the lander will get detached from the orbiter and do a soft-landing near the south pole of the moon. The 6-wheeled rover fixed within the lander will get detached and move on the lunar surface. The rover has been designed in such a way that it will have power to spend a lunar day or 14 Earth days on the moon's surface and walk up to 150-200 metres. It will do several experiments and on-site chemical analysis of the surface."

The Isro chairman said, "The rover will then send data and images of the lunar surface back to the Earth through the orbiter within 15 minutes.

Quote
After spending 14 earth days, the rover will go in a sleep mode. We are hoping the rover will again come alive whenever that part of the moon (where the rover will land) gets sunlight and recharges the rover's solar cells. Besides the rover, the orbiter will also capture images of the moon while orbiting it."

Quote
On testing of lunar components, Dr Sivan said, "All three components of the lunar module are almost ready. Currently, their integration is going on. Once the module is ready, it will have to go through rigorous tests." On fixing launch date, he said, "The launch date will depend on various factors like the moon's relative position with respect to the Earth.

Quote
Once the GSLV is launched, it will put the spacecraft in the 170 km x 20,000 km elliptical orbit. From the elliptical orbit, the craft will be manoeuvred towards the lunar orbit by firing thrusters. Therefore, we expect it to reach the lunar orbit in two months."

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII mid-April 2018
Post by: vineethgk on 02/18/2018 07:35 am
Quote
In the run-up to the most challenging space exploration programme undertaken ever by India, ISRO chairman K Sivan told Express that integration of all the three components of the spacecraft is nearing completion at ISRO Satellite Centre in Bengaluru. “The next 45-60 days will be crucial as the composite pack, comprising Orbiter, Lander and Rover will go through a series of rigorous tests in disassembled and assembled mode. The outcome of these test results will determine the launch date. If we succeed to achieve the desired results in the first attempt, then the launch would take place in April, but in case any technical problems are encountered, there would be a delay. Since this is the first such attempt being made, there is always an uncertainty,” he said.

The chairman said the launch window is fixed between April and October, within which the space agency hopes to accomplish the mission. “The launch date depends on multiple factors like the moon’s relative position with respect to Earth. After the lift-off from Sriharikota, it would take approximately two months to reach the designated moon’s orbit. Another important factor is that when the Lander makes the touchdown on the pre-determined site near south pole of lunar surface,  there should be sunlight. In a month, moon sees sunlight for only 14 days,” Sivan said.
Source (http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil-nadu/2018/feb/18/reaching-for-the-moon-desi-style-isro-is-set-to-script-new-chapter-with-chandrayaan-2-mission-1775023.html)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII mid-April 2018
Post by: kanaka on 02/19/2018 11:50 pm
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/chandrayaan-2-mission-cheaper-than-hollywood-film-interstellar/articleshow/62990361.cms
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII mid-April 2018
Post by: worldtimedate on 02/20/2018 05:17 am
Quote

With the much-awaited Chandrayaan-2 mission, India's second flight to the moon, Isro is attempting to pull off a daredevil manoeuvre. It will be the first-ever mission to soft land near the moon's south pole, which poses a number of challenges.

"We have identified two locations and will be choosing one. No other moon mission has landed in this area," said former Isro chief AS Kiran Kumar on Saturday, who retired as Isro chairman last month.

Quote

In preparation for this touchdown, landing simulations are currently on at Isro's Liquid Propulsion System Centre at Mahendra Giri in Tamil Nadu. The exercise involves a prototype of the lander simulating a soft landing from a height of 70-80 metres.


Source : Isro plans landing near moon’s south pole with Chandrayaan-2 (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-plans-landing-near-moons-south-pole-with-chandrayaan-2/articleshow/62774990.cms)

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII mid-April 2018
Post by: K210 on 02/22/2018 02:06 pm
Very likely this will be delayed to June-July time frame given the fact that second launch pad has a backlog to clear before this can launch. GSLV MK-2 F-08/GSAT-6A and GSLV MK-3 D2/GSAT-29 are both set for launch before GSLV MK-2 F-10/Chandraayan-2. 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII mid-April 2018
Post by: K210 on 02/23/2018 04:33 am
GSLV MK-2 F-08/GSAT-6A pushed to late march. Chandraayan-2 launch before may is impossible at this point.

Source: http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-tamilnadu/gsat-11-launch-in-april-or-may-isro/article22830646.ece
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII mid-April 2018
Post by: vineethgk on 02/25/2018 12:47 pm
Further, are the launch window constraints more relaxed, as this is not a direct trans-lunar injection?

Presumably, as it takes a certain of amount of time to reach the Moon, regardless of route chosen and that ISRO would like to land early in the Lunar day, this would mean the window would open for a few days each month.
ISRO chief speaking on Chandrayaan-II launch window.

Quote
Therefore, just in case something needs an upgrade and we miss this clear visibility window in April, our next chance will be in October. But the activities are in full steam targeting April,” he said.

Source (http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/isro-to-launch-anotherirnss-satellite-in-april/article22845347.ece)

I wonder why he says that if they miss April the next launch window is only in October? I had thought earlier they would have one every month or so considering the start of the lunar day. Is it the position of the moon relative to the apogee of the initial parking orbit (not sure what exactly is the technical term for it, sorry.. argument of perigee?) acting as an additional constraint?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET April 2018
Post by: Phil Stooke on 02/26/2018 05:08 am
You're right, of course, that the Moon's always there and we could launch towards it in any month.  But once the trajectory is defined - trans-lunar coast, lunar orbit injection, lunar orbit all in a specific geometry leading to periapsis over the landing site, the question is: when does that periapsis, when landing would occur, coincide with sunrise at the landing site?  To get the longest possible rover mission the landing needs to be shortly after sunrise, since it may die after sunset.  The trajectory can be flown any month but the combination of trajectory and illumination is more restrictive and repeats at 6 month intervals.  They could go in another month if they accept a different landing site, and they do have one alternative site.  This limitation is much less severe near the equator, so it applied far less to Surveyor and the early Apollo landings.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET April 2018
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 02/27/2018 07:32 am
The trajectory can be flown any month but the combination of trajectory and illumination is more restrictive and repeats at 6 month intervals.

That's right, but the Moon has the same illumination every month. However, the inclination of the launch site will change relative to the Moon and if you are performance limited, that restricts you to launch at the optimum month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xYbkxM2xKw
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET April 2018
Post by: vineethgk on 03/02/2018 11:24 pm
Chandrayaan-II likely delayed to October

Quote
India’s second mission to the moon, Chandrayaan-2, is likely to be launched only in October. Further delays cannot be ruled out if systems are not yet in place by then.
Quote
An Isro official told TOIseveral tests have to be done and arrangements need to be made.
Quote
The original plan envisaged the launch between April and November with the real target focussed for April. Top Isro officials had expressed confidence that the takeoff will happen in April.
Quote
But on Friday, it was stated the lunar mission was not yet ready for an April lift-off and much still needs to be done.

Source (https://m.timesofindia.com/home/science/chandrayaan-2-launch-delayed-likely-to-take-off-only-after-oct/articleshow/63141718.cms)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET April 2018
Post by: worldtimedate on 03/03/2018 05:16 am
Chandrayaan-II likely delayed to October

Quote
India’s second mission to the moon, Chandrayaan-2, is likely to be launched only in October. Further delays cannot be ruled out if systems are not yet in place by then.
Quote
An Isro official told TOIseveral tests have to be done and arrangements need to be made.
Quote
The original plan envisaged the launch between April and November with the real target focussed for April. Top Isro officials had expressed confidence that the takeoff will happen in April.
Quote
But on Friday, it was stated the lunar mission was not yet ready for an April lift-off and much still needs to be done.

Source (https://m.timesofindia.com/home/science/chandrayaan-2-launch-delayed-likely-to-take-off-only-after-oct/articleshow/63141718.cms)

I expected the delay and waited without making comments so that I might prove wrong. But my assumption has come true. Who knows whether the lift-off can take place in October, because of one thing. ISRO's preoccupation with PSLV launch every month has put paid to the development of more powerful launch vehicles. ISRO seems to be content with the launch of PSLV only. GSLV MK-II needs to be uprated to launch at least 2.5 Ton payload to GTO. At least two GSLV MK-II launches need to take place before the launch of Chandrayaan-II. The performance of the uprated Cryogenic Engine which is supposed to generate 90 kN thrust needs to be verified with the launch of at least two GSLV MK-II. Then what to speak of the testing of the rover and landers. Frankly speaking, since former ISRO Chairman G. Madhavan Nair retired, Chandrayaan-II Mission faltered with his immediate successor busy in doing pilgrimage when ISRO was seriously working on the launch of GSLV MK-II with the indigeneous cryogenic engine. Then what happened is known to all of us. Two successive GSL MK-II launches failed, resulting in the GSLV MK-II getting the sobriquet of naughty boy. It was not until the former ISRO chairman A. S. Kiran Kumar that both GSLV MK-II and GSLV MK-III wer back into contention.

Can anyone tell me if the uprated cryogenic engine of GSLV MK-II is re-startable ? Any cryogenic engine propelled upper stage that is NOT RE-STARTABLE is simply of no vital use. This may sound harsh to many of us, but that is the reality. GSLV MK-II's cryogenic engine will not be able to do TLI maneuver. Can it do this ? Chandrayan-II has to reach the moon through the spacecraft's gradual orbit raising, thus taking it almost two months to get to the moon. ISRO seems to have its task cut out.

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET April 2018
Post by: K210 on 03/04/2018 07:19 am
Quote
Can anyone tell me if the uprated cryogenic engine of GSLV MK-II is re-startable ? Any cryogenic engine propelled upper stage that is NOT RE-STARTABLE is simply of no vital use. This may sound harsh to many of us, but that is the reality. GSLV MK-II's cryogenic engine will not be able to do TLI maneuver. Can it do this ? Chandrayan-II has to reach the moon through the spacecraft's gradual orbit raising, thus taking it almost two months to get to the moon. ISRO seems to have its task cut out.

The answer is yes and no. The CE-7.5 is based on the RD-56 engine of the former soviet union. The RD-56 was a restartable engine and so by extension is the CE-7.5. However the CE-7.5 in its current iteration is NOT restartable as isro minimised extra features of the engine in order to get the basic functionality of the engine working. ISRO has said that at some point in the future they do intend to make the CE-7.5 restartable if the need arises.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET April 2018
Post by: srikanthr124 on 03/13/2018 06:45 am
I think April launch was not completely ruled out...so many conflicting statements by ISRO..

SOURCE:

https://www.apherald.com/Politics/ViewArticle/299657/ISRO-aiming-for-an-April-launch-of-the-Chandrayaan-2-satellite-to-the-moon/

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/isro-aims-to-launch-chandrayaan-2-by-april/articleshow/63258020.cms

http://en.brinkwire.com/204845/isro-aims-to-launch-chandrayaan-2-by-april/
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV-MkII NET April 2018
Post by: vineethgk on 03/23/2018 01:26 pm
Finally, official confirmation from ISRO that Chandrayaan-II has been delayed to October (though that was long expected)..

Quote
The launch of India's second lunar mission 'Chandrayaan-2', slated for next month, has been postponed to October as the experts have suggested some tests, the ISRO said today.

Source (https://m.economictimes.com/articleshow/63429955.cms)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV October 2018
Post by: vineethgk on 03/25/2018 02:14 am
New targeted date for Chandrayaan-II launch is in the first week of October - ISRO Chairman (https://m.timesofindia.com/india/isro-will-launch-chandrayaan-2-in-oct-1st-week-after-tests-chief/articleshow/63448194.cms)
Quote
Dr Sivan said, “The original targeted date for the launch was kept on April 23. However, as the ongoing tests for the lunar mission will take 20 more days, the April 23rd date could not be met. Therefore the panel decided to defer the launch. Unlike, other satellite launches where Isro could easily defer the launch by a day or two to get a perfect mission, Isro can’t do the same in this mission. This is because the ideal date for the moon launch comes only once in a month. If we skip that date of the month, we have to plan the launch next month. After April, if Isro launches the mission from May to September, we won’t be able to utilise the full lunar day (14 Earth days) for experiments on the moon because of eclipses. Therefore, Isro will launch the mission in the first week of October.”
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV October 2018
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 03/25/2018 04:20 am
The article also mentions that they could launch every month, but the six month delay is caused by "eclipses" so as to get the required landing light condition. Not sure if the eclipses refer to that in LEO or in LLO.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV October 2018
Post by: K210 on 03/26/2018 07:19 am
I wish they has just said october from the start. Making all these unachievable targets and missing them is bad PR.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV October 2018
Post by: vineethgk on 03/27/2018 11:58 pm
Planned vehicle upgrades for GSLV for the Chandrayaan-II mission

Quote
“All these new things are being done keeping lunar mission in the mind and ISRO’s bigger game plan to increase GSLV payload capability. For Chandrayaan-2, we are formulating a perfect combination. The four strap-ons and second stage will be boosted with high-thrust Vikas engines; cryogenic upper stage will be loaded with enhanced propellants of 15 tonnes instead of current 12.8 tonnes and will be operated with 9.5 tonne thrust compared to the present 7.5.”

Source (http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil-nadu/2018/mar/28/with-eye-on-lunar-mission-isro-to-test-high-thrust-vikas-engine-1793608.html)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV October 2018
Post by: K210 on 03/28/2018 05:35 am
Planned vehicle upgrades for GSLV for the Chandrayaan-II mission

Quote
“All these new things are being done keeping lunar mission in the mind and ISRO’s bigger game plan to increase GSLV payload capability. For Chandrayaan-2, we are formulating a perfect combination. The four strap-ons and second stage will be boosted with high-thrust Vikas engines; cryogenic upper stage will be loaded with enhanced propellants of 15 tonnes instead of current 12.8 tonnes and will be operated with 9.5 tonne thrust compared to the present 7.5.”

Source (http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil-nadu/2018/mar/28/with-eye-on-lunar-mission-isro-to-test-high-thrust-vikas-engine-1793608.html)

So it's confirmed that GSLV F-10 will be the "upgraded GSLV" that isro has been hinting at
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV October 2018
Post by: K210 on 05/08/2018 08:49 am
IIRS payload has been dispatched from SAC to ISAC for integration onto chandraayan-2 spacecraft. Dispatch took place on 9th April 2018.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ISRO/comments/8azu39/gsat29_payload_and_iirs_payload_for_chandrayaanii/
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV October 2018
Post by: chota on 07/05/2018 06:06 pm
Some old tests conduction earlier as part of lander experiments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6SrZ_pYHpM&feature=youtu.be&start=14&end=20
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV October 2018
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/06/2018 04:06 am
Man, I can't stand those YouTube videos with robot voices. This is where the news came from for that video.

https://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/ahead-of-launch-chandrayaan-2-to-undergo-bungee-jump-like-simulation-test-in-mahendragiri-337615.html
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV October 2018
Post by: chota on 07/16/2018 04:14 pm
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/with-several-rocket-launches-planned-a-busy-year-ahead-for-isro-1884266 (https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/with-several-rocket-launches-planned-a-busy-year-ahead-for-isro-1884266)

As per this link, there is no mention of Chandrayaan-2 in October
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV October 2018
Post by: TheVarun on 07/16/2018 04:25 pm

^
 That can't be right, at least it shouldn't be!  ISRO has repeatedly stated that October would be an ideal month to launch Chandrayaan-2, because of the earth-moon distance at the time.   Must be a major oversight by NDTV-one is hoping anyway!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV October 2018
Post by: worldtimedate on 07/17/2018 11:23 pm

^
 That can't be right, at least it shouldn't be!  ISRO has repeatedly stated that October would be an ideal month to launch Chandrayaan-2, because of the earth-moon distance at the time.   Must be a major oversight by NDTV-one is hoping anyway!

According to this this Economic Times (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/2018-end-to-be-busy-for-isro-with-several-rocket-launches/articleshow/65011210.cms) report also, the launch of Chandrayaan - 2 is not on cards this year. This makes me believe that Chandrayaan - 2 will NOT be launched until the launch of GSAT-7A by GSLV-II. I think, ISRO does NOT want to take risk without testing the capability of high thrust Vikas engine.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV October 2018
Post by: TheVarun on 07/18/2018 01:55 pm
[

According to this this Economic Times (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/2018-end-to-be-busy-for-isro-with-several-rocket-launches/articleshow/65011210.cms) report also, the launch of Chandrayaan - 2 is not on cards this year. This makes me believe that Chandrayaan - 2 will NOT be launched until the launch of GSAT-7A by GSLV-II. I think, ISRO does NOT want to take risk without testing the capability of high thrust Vikas engine.

  Makes sense!  Any idea what would be the next most optimised launch date for a moon mission? One hopes its not Oct 2019!  True though, that caution is a sound policy. The Economic Times article does not emphatically say that "there will be no Chandrayaan mission in October". Perhaps what is happening is that they are conducting rigorous tests of a bunch of things, and if all those turn out well, they will launch Chandrayaan. But they don't want to build up hopes, considering the very high profile nature of the venture.

Being optimistic :)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV NET end 2018
Post by: abhishek on 08/04/2018 12:47 pm
Chandrayaan 2 Delayed, Israel Could Beat India In Race To Moon's Surface

Quote
Dr M Annadurai, Director of U R Rao Satellite Centre confirmed to NDTV  that the launch date for Chandryaan-2 "is slipping to 2019" from the initially planned launch in October this year.

Dr Annadurai said that India's moon mission now aims to land in February and the rocket launch will take place in January next year.

Moreover, since the weight of the Chandrayaan-2 satellite has increased, Dr Annadurai said that now instead of GSLV MK-II, GSLV MK-III will be used

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/chandrayaan-2-delayed-israel-could-beat-india-in-race-to-moons-surface-1895221
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Dont want to indulge in a political debate but i find news articles of Mr Bagla to be quite irritating in nature as it's more on nationalism and jingoism rather than on science....3rd country to do this,4th country to do that,gslv the bahubali rocket etc etc....

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: TheVarun on 08/04/2018 01:55 pm
 ^
Agree. There's a little too much of that nationalism and jingoism in Bagla's reports- and he's supposed to be a science writer!  It's okay to mention it, but it shouldn't be the centrepiece or the dominant theme. I don't like Frontline magazine( way too left politically!) but they have excellent science and technology articles by T.S Subramanian and R. Ramachandran, particularly in the area of aerospace. The first, second, 5th, 6th et al are certainly brought up, as they should be, but the accent is on the actual science and technology, and the challenges therein.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV NET end 2018
Post by: TheVarun on 08/04/2018 02:02 pm
Chandrayaan 2 Delayed, Israel Could Beat India In Race To Moon's Surface

Quote
Dr M Annadurai, Director of U R Rao Satellite Centre confirmed to NDTV  that the launch date for Chandryaan-2 "is slipping to 2019" from the initially planned launch in October this year.

Dr Annadurai said that India's moon mission now aims to land in February and the rocket launch will take place in January next year.

   
   A little disappointing, of course, but January 2019 isn't bad. For something as complex as a moon mission, better not to take chances.  But the news of GSLV Mark 3 being used for the launch, is startling. That was never spoken of before by ISRO, now it's pretty concrete!  All this time, only GSLV Mark 2 was spoken of.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: sanman on 08/05/2018 12:23 am
Dont want to indulge in a political debate but i find news articles of Mr Bagla to be quite irritating in nature as it's more on nationalism and jingoism rather than on science....3rd country to do this,4th country to do that,gslv the bahubali rocket etc etc....

^
Agree. There's a little too much of that nationalism and jingoism in Bagla's reports- and he's supposed to be a science writer!  It's okay to mention it, but it shouldn't be the centrepiece or the dominant theme. I don't like Frontline magazine( way too left politically!) but they have excellent science and technology articles by T.S Subramanian and R. Ramachandran, particularly in the area of aerospace. The first, second, 5th, 6th et al are certainly brought up, as they should be, but the accent is on the actual science and technology, and the challenges therein.

I don't feel that it's fair to single out Mr Bagla for that - to be fair, all members of the Indian media do that - he's a passionate science communicator. It's also about drumming up enthusiasm among the public for India's space program.

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV NET end 2018
Post by: sanman on 08/05/2018 12:27 am
Chandrayaan 2 Delayed, Israel Could Beat India In Race To Moon's Surface

Quote
Dr M Annadurai, Director of U R Rao Satellite Centre confirmed to NDTV  that the launch date for Chandryaan-2 "is slipping to 2019" from the initially planned launch in October this year.

Dr Annadurai said that India's moon mission now aims to land in February and the rocket launch will take place in January next year.
   
   A little disappointing, of course, but January 2019 isn't bad. For something as complex as a moon mission, better not to take chances.  But the news of GSLV Mark 3 being used for the launch, is startling. That was never spoken of before by ISRO, now it's pretty concrete!  All this time, only GSLV Mark 2 was spoken of.

With GSLV-Mk3 being used, it would have been nice if its higher payload margin could have allowed the use of a heavier and more robust rover & lander. The current lunar rover is looking a little minimalist and barebones - Oh well, can't revise things now.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: K210 on 08/05/2018 01:20 am
Good move by isro. If they had launched on uprated MK-2 rocket any number of things could have gone wrong given how many new upgrades they are introducing all at once (high thrust vikas, C-15 upper stage etc.). Besides MK-3 with its 4 ton GTO capability is more better suited to a mission like this. Hopefully they increase the mass of Chandraayan-2 to fully utilise MK-3's capability.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 08/05/2018 08:34 am
"Hopefully they increase the mass of Chandraayan-2 to fully utilise MK-3's capability."

It's a bit too late to be making any changes, if they want to launch in January!  Change nothing at all would be my advice. 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: K210 on 08/05/2018 10:20 am
Quote
It's a bit too late to be making any changes, if they want to launch in January!

Probably true. They could however use the MK3 to launch Chandraayan-2 into a higher initial orbit. This would cut the number of orbit raising manoeuvres required. It would also cut down the time from launch to entering lunar orbit.

If they had gone with MK3 sooner they could have built a more advanced rover with more science instruments. They might have even been able to test a prototype return capsule for a future sample return mission.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: TripleSeven on 08/05/2018 10:50 am
^
Agree. There's a little too much of that nationalism and jingoism in Bagla's reports- and he's supposed to be a science writer!  It's okay to mention it, but it shouldn't be the centrepiece or the dominant theme. I don't like Frontline magazine( way too left politically!) but they have excellent science and technology articles by T.S Subramanian and R. Ramachandran, particularly in the area of aerospace. The first, second, 5th, 6th et al are certainly brought up, as they should be, but the accent is on the actual science and technology, and the challenges therein.

No buck no buck rogers.  To most in India the science means very little but the nationalism aspect of it means a lot 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 08/06/2018 12:59 am
Now TimesofIndia is saying that Chandrayaan-2 Mission has been put off till December.

Source : Chandrayaan-2 launch put off: India, Israel in lunar race for 4th position (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-launch-put-off-india-israel-in-lunar-race-for-4th-position/articleshow/65275012.cms)

Quote
India's most ambitious Chandrayaan-2 mission, which was earlier scheduled for October first week, has been postponed till December, according to an Isro source.

Unlike the Chandrayaan-1 programme in 2008 that involved only orbiting around the moon, Chandrayaan-2 is a much complicated mission as it involves an orbiter, a lander and a rover. The mission involves a soft-landing on the lunar surface and a rover that will walk and analysis the content on the moon's surface. Being India's most challenging mission, Isro doesn't want to take chances and taking time to fix all glitches in the lunar mission.

Quote
As the weight of the Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft has increased, according to the source, GSLV Mk III or Isro's 'fat boy' will now carry the spacecraft as it has the lifting capability of over four tonne. According to the earlier plan, GSLV Mk II which just three-tonne lifting capability was supposed to carry the payload.

Quote
Describing India's Chandrayaan-2 mission, the Isro chairman had earlier told TOI, "It is totally an indigenous programme. All components of the Chandrayaan-2 mission, including an orbiter, a lander and a rover, have been developed in the country. There integration is going on and they all are undergoing rigorous tests.

Quote
On reaching the moon's orbit, the lander will get detached from the orbiter and soft-land on the lunar surface. The six-wheeled rover fixed within the lander will get detached and move on the lunar surface for around 100 metres. It will spend 14 Earth days (one moon day) and analyse the content. It will also take photos of the moon's surface and relay the images back to the Earth via the orbiter within 15 minutes."

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: K210 on 08/06/2018 09:01 pm
Some details about mass increase of chandraayan-2. Lift off mass has gone up from 3,250kg to 3,850kg.

Quote
The national committee that reviewed Chandrayaan-2 in March this year felt soft-landing would be a tricky proposition unless some improvements are made to the lander.

“We decided to add another liquid engine to the lander, revisit the mission sequence and conduct more tests. We realized that the deadlines set earlier were impossible to meet,” said a senior scientist present at the review.

Quote
The Chandrayaan-2 team also decided to have more electronic packages as standby. These additions increased the weight of the spacecraft.

“We could still carry this extra weight using an upgraded version of GSLV-MII, but we decided to go in for GSLV-MIII. And once this was decided, we could build in more redundancies for a safer flight as GSLV-MIII could take much more,”

In effect, the ground mass of Chandrayaan-2 went up from 3,250kg to 3,850kg.

The lander weight went up from 1,250kg to about 1,350, the six-wheeled rover’s weight from 20kg to 25kg. For every extra kilogram of the payload, the lift-off weight of the vehicle increases by 4kg, as more propellent is needed.

Before finalizing GSLV-MIII as the Chandrayaan-2 launcher, Isro had decided to ‘uprate’ GSLV-MII. “We had to uprate the cryogenic system and the liquid engine,” said the review panel member. “But then, we cannot afford to fly Chandrayaan as a test flight of the uprated GSLV-MII. Hence we have decided to use GSLV-MIII. There is a MIII launch scheduled in a couple of months. That launch will give us the confidence to go ahead with Chandrayaan-2.”

Source: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/soft-landing-challenges-keep-chandrayaan-2-grounded/articleshow/65293768.cms

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 08/06/2018 09:55 pm
The following article from the Week is reporting the rethrottling problem with the lander. It appears to me that once ISRO crosses this hurdle related to the lander and the GSLV MK-III comes to fruition in its full payload capacity, this will open door for ISRO many such interplanetary missions.

Source : What caused delay in ISRO's Chandrayaan-2 launch (https://www.theweek.in/news/sci-tech/2018/08/06/What-caused-delay-in-ISRO-Chandrayaan-2-launch.html)

Quote
Sources say that this time, the delay was caused because the indigenously developed lander was having trouble with rethrottling. The lander has now gone back to the design table for a design change. "The lander was developing vibrations at the time of rethrottling. The problem appears to be with the thrusters," said a senior level official at the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).

Quote
Though the launch has been shifted by just three months but given that the vehicle taking the lander to the moon is also changing, a further delay may not be a surprise. Previously, the GSLV II was scheduled to ferry Chandrayaan 2, now it is reported that the heaviest vehicle in ISRO's stable, the Bahubali or GSLV III, is the vehicle of choice.

Quote
The development has taken time, and given that it is the first time India is developing a lander, the programme has faced many glitches like the present one. While no date was announced for the mission for a long time, it was finally said the rocket would take off in April 2018. But the launch was shifted to the next window, October 2018 and now it has been shifted further.

Sources say that while postponements are disappointing, one cannot compromise accuracy just to stay ahead in the race. A GSLV Mk III launch costs around Rs 4 billion and it also entails years of research and development. Every component needs to be precise before such an ambitious mission can be launched.

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: PonRam on 08/08/2018 03:10 am
Good that they detect and eliminate all these issues here itself. It is an invaluable learning experience for ISRO on throttling of engines to soft land the lander and rover. Experience gained can be resued in returning stages of launch vehicles back to earth too.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: sanman on 08/12/2018 03:10 am
Change to the mission - the lander will do some low orbital passes over the lunar surface before going for landing:


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-wants-chandrayaan-2-lander-to-orbit-moon-first/articleshow/65370820.cms

Quote
The decision on how many orbits the Lander will make has not yet been taken, but it will be a 100x30 (100km on one side and 30 on the other) elliptical orbit, which means that the entire configuration of the mission has now changed, in effect, causing the delay.

“Earlier, the plan was to gradually go down from 100km and reach 18km from the Moon’s surface. From there, the orientation would change, making the Lander go slightly horizontal for about 8.5km and then we were to change the orientation and velocity further to make the soft landing,” a senior member of the Chandrayaan-2 team said.

Now, as per the revised plans, the Lander has to go around the surface of the moon before entering the descent phase. Scientists working on the project say that this change in plan could have been avoided as the earlier configuration that was cleared would have achieved the main mission goals.

“This additional activity required by the Lander means a host of new hardware added. This is one method of achieving the landing, while the earlier one was another. Our job is to follow what the chairman and other seniors decide and develop things that can successfully complete the mission,” another scientist said.

This has also increased Chandrayaan-2 weight from 3,250kg to 3,850kg, which has prompted some changes, including moving to GSLV MK-III instead of the GSLV MK-II, which would have required an uprate to accommodate the additional weight.

New configuration & soft landing issue

As per the new configuration cleared after the fourth Comprehensive Technical Review (CTR) meeting held on June 19, among other things, the Lander would require a fifth liquid engine to manage the additional load of having to orbit, along with other hardware including a transponder which it earlier didn’t need.

“All these last-minute changes means that we have to test all the new hardware and then begin the fabrication process, which will delay the project. Also, the software algorithms need to change as the mission profile itself has been altered, and even this would need tests,” the scientist said.

“The fifth Centrally mounted 800N Steady State Liquid Engine with additional hardware has been included to mitigate upward draft of dust to craft while landing,” the Isro has found.

Also, the Lander will have a new Lander Leg configuration with increased base diameter (from 3.6m to 4.34m) which is to improve the stability margins.
Why the orbiting

According to the committee, the Lander is now required to orbit so that it can make “assessment of various system performances before the actual critical Powered,” and to do this, the descent phase requires the inclusion of four reaction wheel and its drive electronics as well as two micro Star Sensors (main & redundant) which will enable it to measure the moving velocity and help land.

It will also have transponders for ranging and doppler functions with the antenna configuration and a host of additional supporting systems—power, structure, thermal, etc, will also be added.

Besides, there will be two additional propellant tanks (390L capacity), additional pressurant tank (35.5L capacity) among other changes.


I don't mean to be a backbiter, but I worry that such major changes so near to the targeted launch date may cause rushed re-design and testing, thus increasing the chances of mission failure.

So is all of this being motivated by a desire to do some kind of systems validation ahead of the actual landing?

How do the current and former procedures for Chandrayaan-2 compare to other past attempts at landing on the Moon?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: sanman on 08/12/2018 04:02 am
So this is the previous landing procedure for Chandrayaan-2, as posted by user Ohsin

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vf3M3Dk_WeI/WVzeI1IOdnI/AAAAAAAABTw/UosY3_-VabA-2IUaC5gaMHPU3kCCqa8SwCLcBGAs/s1600/ch2lander.png)

In it, there's mention of terrain pattern-matching as part of the landing procedure. Could it be that they don't feel confident of their existing terrain maps, and want to take some fresh shots ("in operando") to match against before landing?

And so this resulting new sharper descent trajectory is why they need the extra hardware, including the extra 5th engine, in order to get the landing down pat?

(Google tells me that LIRAP stands for Laser Inertial Reference and Accelerometer Package)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: maint1234 on 08/12/2018 05:34 am
I believe the spate of issues with the launches last year , including the multiple IRNSS satellite problems has resulted in these decisions to delay. Totally support this decision as the moon is going nowhere but a suboptimal mission will impact morale and make headlines for all the wrong reasons. I would support a further delay if they can somehow extend the rover life from the present 1 moon day, 14 earth days ?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: sanman on 08/12/2018 06:07 am
If there are going to be these low-altitude passes at 30km height over the lunar surface for terrain mapping, then will the effect of reflected solar heating become a more intense issue to deal with, as compared to what Chandrayaan-1 experienced at its relatively higher 100km altitude above the Moon?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 08/12/2018 06:58 pm
"will the effect of reflected solar heating become a more intense issue to deal with"

No, because the low point will be at 70 degrees south where the surface is cooler, but also the designers will have taken that problem into account. 

" there's mention of terrain pattern-matching as part of the landing procedure. Could it be that they don't feel confident of their existing terrain maps, and want to take some fresh shots ... to match against before landing?"

No - this to help locate the lander.  Its images are compared with previous maps to identify its location, so it can be steered down to a precise landing.  This technology has been described before, e.g. by Astrobotic in the US for the Moon and for future Mars landings as well.  It will help ensure a safe landing by guiding the lander to the pre-selected safe location.

In other news...

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-s-second-lunar-mission-to-land-on-moon-with-lander-rover-isro/story-vqoGvAyk6hHuUL4SDa17GJ.html (https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-s-second-lunar-mission-to-land-on-moon-with-lander-rover-isro/story-vqoGvAyk6hHuUL4SDa17GJ.html)

Launch on or after 3 January 2019, and the lander named Vikram after V. Sarabhai. 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: sanman on 08/12/2018 08:12 pm
Hi, thanks for the responses  :)


No - this to help locate the lander.  Its images are compared with previous maps to identify its location, so it can be steered down to a precise landing.  This technology has been described before, e.g. by Astrobotic in the US for the Moon and for future Mars landings as well.  It will help ensure a safe landing by guiding the lander to the pre-selected safe location.

Yes, I'm aware of what the terrain pattern-matching is meant for - but obviously it has to be done against pre-stored maps of the lunar terrain (presumably based on Chandrayaan-1 data?)

So what I meant was - could it be that ISRO's review team doesn't have enough confidence in the pattern-matching system, or else in the quality of the maps being matched against, so that they wanted to make some low-altitude passes first, to ensure that it all works correctly?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 08/12/2018 08:35 pm
Probably the LRO images would be used for the terrain map, as they would have 2 or 3 times better resolution.  My guess is that the low passes are intended to improve knowledge of the trajectory.  Drop to the final pre-descent orbit and make a couple more orbits while the trajectory is checked, then commit to the final descent.  Otherwise you are going from the higher orbit to the surface in one go.   
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: sanman on 08/12/2018 08:47 pm
Probably the LRO images would be used for the terrain map, as they would have 2 or 3 times better resolution.  My guess is that the low passes are intended to improve knowledge of the trajectory.  Drop to the final pre-descent orbit and make a couple more orbits while the trajectory is checked, then commit to the final descent.  Otherwise you are going from the higher orbit to the surface in one go.   

I agree that LRO images would be unsurpassed in quality - but would ISRO even have access to that data for its mission purposes?

Also, given that the new descent trajectory requires the addition of a 5th engine, doesn't that make it sound more strenuous as compared to the original plan? (ie. higher loads, since you have less altitude in which to decelerate from orbital velocity)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 08/12/2018 09:30 pm
LRO images are freely available to anyone in the world via the LRO camera team website and NASA's Planetary Data System.  Chandrayaan 1 images are in principle, but they are much more difficult to access and some - the full set of Moon Impact Probe images - have never been released. 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 08/12/2018 09:34 pm
ISRO hopes to launch Chandrayaan-2 between January 3 and Mid-March of 2019.

Source : Isro aims to launch 22 missions in 2019; 50 in 3 years (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-aims-to-launch-22-missions-in-2019-50-in-3-years/articleshow/65375131.cms)

Quote
Among the key missions to look for in 2019 will be the Chandrayaan-2, Aditya-L1 (India's solar mission) and two demonstration flights of the SSLV (small satellite launch vehicle).

Quote
Isro hopes to start the new year (2019) with the launch of Chandrayaan-2, which has already been delayed owing to multiple changes that were needed. Sivan said that they are looking at a launch window between January 3 and mid-March. "We hope to meet the January 3 date," he said, while confirming TOI's August 12 report that the entire configuration of the mission has changed.

--- [ --- ]
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: sanman on 08/16/2018 06:25 am
from Nature:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05973-6

Quote
The launch of India’s second spacecraft to the Moon has been delayed for the second time this year. Chandrayaan-2 had been expected to lift off in October, after it was pushed back from its original launch date in April.

Kailasavadivoo Sivan, chair of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) in Bangalore, told reporters on 12 August that the agency is aiming to launch the craft on 3 January next year — although the mission has a launch window of any time between January and March. Chandrayaan-2 will carry an orbiter that will travel around the Moon; a lander that will attempt India’s first controlled, or soft, landing; and a rover.

Sivan said that there were several reasons for the latest delay, including design changes to ensure a smooth touchdown for the lander. He said these changes have increased the weight of the spacecraft and therefore the amount of fuel needed to complete the mission, which has further added to delays.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: sanman on 08/21/2018 11:27 am
NASA's Moon Minerology Mapper hits it big, confirming water ice on the Moon:

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/ice-confirmed-at-the-moon-s-poles

The pics seem to show way more ice detected at the South Pole compared to the North Pole - I wonder why. Shouldn't we expect similar apportionment for both poles? What could be the reason for this?
I wonder how this could affect the Chandrayaan-2 mission?

Could Chandrayaan-2 have an opportunity to somehow follow up on the lunar ice data provided by M3?

I wish they'd just put the LIBS instrument thing on a small arm or mast, to give it a better view. How's it supposed to detect much when it's on the rover's underbelly? Curiosity's chemcam wasn't kept so blinkered.

Now that they've shifted to GSLV-Mk3 with its higher payload allowance, and now that they're even upgrading the lander, it would be nice if the rover could be made a little more functional. But I guess that would add to yet another goalpost being shifted at the last minute and delay things further.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: sghill on 08/21/2018 11:40 am
NASA's Moon Minerology Mapper hits it big, confirming water ice on the Moon:

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/ice-confirmed-at-the-moon-s-poles

The pics seem to show way more ice detected at the South Pole compared to the North Pole - I wonder why. Shouldn't we expect similar apportionment for both poles? What could be the reason for this?
I wonder how this could affect the Chandrayaan-2 mission?

On Mars, the differences are explained by progression of the rotation axis over time, what used to be one of the poles is now facing closer to the sun.

Perhaps the Moon has similarly progressed some even with its rotation stabilized more by the Earth. The northern pole could have regularly pointed more at the sun in the past with the southern pole pointing away from the sun.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 08/21/2018 05:03 pm
Nothing to do with rotation, the answer is topography.  The south pole has more craters with permanent shadow in them than the north pole.  In the north, many craters are largely filled with ejecta from the Imbrium basin impact, so they are not very deep (e.g. Peary) and don't have much shadow area.  In the south, the gigantic South Pole-Aitken basin  (extending from Aitken crater at c. 20 degrees south to the South Pole itself) causes lower topography to begin with (plus mountain blocks which cast shadow), and there are other craters in the area to dig even deeper - Shoemaker, Haworth, Faustini, Amundsen, Cabeus to name only the biggest ones.  The result is much more permanent shadow in the south, and more opportunities for the ice to collect.

Chandrayaan 2 is landing at about 70 degrees south, nowhere near these ice deposits.  They will have to wait for future missions.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: chota on 08/28/2018 11:22 am
Chandrayaan-2 Flight profile

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dlq-Jp2XgAAIrp9.jpg)

Credit: https://twitter.com/sidhant (https://twitter.com/sidhant)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: sanman on 08/28/2018 08:07 pm
Nothing to do with rotation, the answer is topography.  The south pole has more craters with permanent shadow in them than the north pole.  In the north, many craters are largely filled with ejecta from the Imbrium basin impact, so they are not very deep (e.g. Peary) and don't have much shadow area.  In the south, the gigantic South Pole-Aitken basin  (extending from Aitken crater at c. 20 degrees south to the South Pole itself) causes lower topography to begin with (plus mountain blocks which cast shadow), and there are other craters in the area to dig even deeper - Shoemaker, Haworth, Faustini, Amundsen, Cabeus to name only the biggest ones.  The result is much more permanent shadow in the south, and more opportunities for the ice to collect.

Chandrayaan 2 is landing at about 70 degrees south, nowhere near these ice deposits.  They will have to wait for future missions.

So is the difference in topography at the southern pole compared to the northern pole entirely because of where that large asteroid impacted (that created Imbrium basin)?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 08/28/2018 08:27 pm
Window to launch Chandrayaan-2 will be between Jan 3 and Feb 16: Isro chief (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/window-to-launch-chandrayaan-2-will-be-between-jan-3-and-feb-16-isro-chief/articleshow/65583460.cms)

Quote
Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) will launch its second moon mission 'Chandrayaan-2' carrying an orbiter, a lander and a rover between January 3 and February 16 next year. During a media interaction, Isro chairman K Sivan said, "We have a window of opportunity to launch the mission between January 3 and February 16. We will try our best to launch the mission during this window."

He said "Chandrayaan-2 will be the first mission in the world going near the "south pole", where recently Nasa's payload M3 on Chandrayaan-1 discovered ice in the shadow of craters.

Quote
The Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft will carry an orbiter, a lander and a rover. The lander carrying a rover will make a soft-landing on the south pole of the moon and the "rover will spend a full lunar day (14 Earth days) there to make the most of the day time performing experiments. "

The rover will walk 100 metres and analyse the content of the lunar surface. It will also perform several experiments using payloads it will be carrying. The orbiter and rover will send back photographs of the moon within 15 minutes. The Isro chairman revealed that the "mass of Chandrayaan-2 has been increased to 3.8 tonnes and will be launched by GSLV-MK-III", instead of GSLV Mk II as planned earlier.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: sanman on 08/28/2018 08:49 pm
So I made a joke before (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41188.msg1849320#msg1849320) - but is there going to be an actual co-passenger on the Chandrayaan-2 lunar mission, in the form of a small rover from the Netherlands?

http://www.vhf.cz/soubory/dokumenty/poster-pi9cam-activities.pdf

Quote
Dutch lunar rover mission
By the end of 2018 or in early 2019 a small Dutch lunar rover will travel to the moon.
The little 1.5 kg six legged robot will land on the lunar surface and will send images back home
to earth. For this mission the Dwingeloo radio telescope will become ‘mission control’!! The
launch will take place in India and on the same launch there will also be an Indian lunar rover. In
fact the plan is that the Indian and Dutch lunar rovers will take pictures of each other. It’s a
‘proof of concept’ mission. If this is successful a whole ‘swarm’ of little rovers will go to the
moon eventually. One planned mission is to build radio antennas to form an array for radio
astronomy



Now that GSLV-Mk-III is being used, will its higher payload capability permit this co-passenger ride to happen?

If this is going to happen, would everything be carried down on one lander?

Can anybody confirm?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 08/29/2018 03:20 am
I think this is a payload with Team Indus.  The suggested date is presumably out of date, but they are still planning to fly to a landing site in Mare Imbrium.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: chota on 09/03/2018 11:29 am
Chandrayaan-2 base plate before the inclusion of the 5th Engine
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: chota on 09/03/2018 06:01 pm
As per redesign a new 800 n motor will be mounted centrally and a new leg will be added. Interesting to see how and where these things will be added. Currently the protruding propulsion tank on the orbitor takes up the central spot of the lander before separation.

Will the entire base become a pentagon to accommodate 5 engines and 5 legs? Seems unstable!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 09/25/2018 10:38 pm
Chandrayaan-2 Mission doesn't seem to be on schedule, because of several challenges.

Quote
The Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), which has set itself a January 3, 2019 deadline for the launch of India's second mission to Moon (Chandrayaan-2) has several technological challenges brought about by the new configuration that it must address. In fact, Isro Chairman Sivan K, after whose taking charge the Chandrayaan-2 project has undergone several changes, says that the Lander designed for the programme was ill-configured and would have led to the failure of the programme.

"You can say that this is Chandrayaan-3 as the project has been reconfigured completely. If we went with the previous configuration it would have been a disaster. They had not thought of so many issues, that are being corrected now," Sivan told TOI. "As things stand, January deadline looks difficult to meet, but as the chairman has said there's a window up to March," one person working on Chandrayaan-2 told said.

Quote
Among major challenges are the integration of the fifth liquid engine to manage the additional load of the lander which now has to orbit the Moon, lander legs, rover integration, modified harness and so on. Earlier this year, after the changes were made to the configuration, the fifth liquid engine failed a crucial qualification heat test. The Chandrayaan-2 mission will not be possible without this engine.

While confirming this, Sivan had told TOI in August: "The engine is fine, there was a problem with the way the test was conducted. Out of enthusiasm, people did the test wrong. The space system is such that real space environment must be created. But the way this is simulated must be correct, otherwise, there will be a problem. In this case, instead of creating external heat, the engine itself was heated." On Monday, he reiterated that the engine was alright and that it would be ready for the mission soon.

Quote
Also, in a recent development, the Rover team has written to the project management team that the new configuration has created a problem for the Rover unloading manoeuvre. According to the feedback given by the Rover team, the new extended solar panels - necessitated by the new configuration - now extends well beyond the body of the lander casting a shadow on the rover when it has to come out of the lander.

Quote
One scientist explains: "Although we have a battery, we won't know if that is in charged condition as it would have remained off, so we wanted sunlight. Now, the extension of the solar panel (an additional 350 meters) is casting a shadow, depriving the rover of sunlight during this manoeuvre." Sivan, however, said: "These are design challenges which will be overcome without much problem. It will all be corrected." Sivan has been insistent that the testing of Chandrayaan-2 happen only after the entire configuration is ready. The complete integration is expected to be ready by November 30.

Source : Chandrayaan-2: Several challenges to meet Jan 2019 deadline (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-several-challenges-to-meet-jan-2019-deadline/articleshow/65945202.cms)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/25/2018 10:40 pm
I was just about to post on that same article!  It looks troubling.  I hope they don't feel rushed into a premature launch to meet expectations. 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 09/26/2018 11:23 pm
Potential Landing Sites for Chandrayaan-2 Lander in Southern Hemisphere of Moon
https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2018/pdf/1975.pdf
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: K210 on 09/27/2018 07:03 am
I hope they take their time and get it right. This has been a mission in the making for 11 years now it would be a major setback if it ends up a failure.

Personally i do not mind if they push the launch back to mid to late 2019 so they can resolve all these outstanding issues.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 09/30/2018 12:44 am
Code made in Bengaluru to aid moon mission (https://www.deccanherald.com/national/code-made-bengaluru-aid-moon-694829.html)

Quote
India's second moon mission Chandrayaan-2 being launched by the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) will have a key software developed by a startup at its Bengaluru development centre. Omnipresent Robot Tech, a Delhi-based software and hardware development company, has developed the software for Chandrayaan's rover imaging and navigational manoeuvre at its development centre in Bengaluru. The software will take charge of the rover once it lands on the moon, a top company official said.

Quote
"We have developed 'Omny3D' which will help the rover to navigate on the moon's surface. It will help to identify rocks and obstacles and track the path from one point to another," Akash Sinha, founder and CEO of Omnipresent, told DH. On the moon, the rover will find it difficult to move as the surface is rough and dark. The software will help to overcome those hurdles.

Quote
The Isro didn't respond to a query sent by DH seeking details of the project. Omnipresent, a seven-year-old startup with more than 50 members, received the project order after winning a tender from Isro. The software also helps in the motion planning of the rover. "We will help in its navigation as per the commands from the ground station," he said.

The company is working closely with the Laboratory for Electro-Optics Systems (Leos), a research lab belonging to the Isro. It involves in the design and development of optics and sensor modules that can be deployed either aboard the satellite or with the launch vehicle.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: chetan_chpd on 10/01/2018 02:36 am
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/scientists-meet-before-launch-of-chandrayaan-2/articleshow/66021410.cms
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 10/02/2018 01:02 am
Lunar Science Meeting at ISRO HQ
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/27-sep-2018/lunar-science-meeting-isro-hq
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: chetan_chpd on 10/04/2018 03:10 pm
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/jan-30-not-3rd-best-date-for-chandrayaan-2-review-panel/articleshow/66074297.cms
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 10/08/2018 08:16 pm
Key payload for Chandrayaan-2 leaves for Bengaluru (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/key-payload-for-chandrayaan-2-leaves-for-bengaluru/articleshow/66117495.cms)

Quote
The Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), said that a key payload for India's second moon mission - Chandrayaan-2 -has left the Satellite Application Centre (SAC) in Ahmedabad, where it was developed, for UR Rao Satellite Centre in Bengaluru, which will be responsible for the testing and integration. "The Lander Ka Band Radar Altimeter and HDA Processor was flagged off from SAC to UR Rao Satellite Centre. Ka Band Radar Altimeter and HDA Processor is one of the key payloads of Chandryaan-2," Isro said.

Isro is presently finalising some changes in the configuration, which was revised only this year after a committee of experts found that the landing profile was not conceived in the most optimal way, among other things. While Isro chairman Sivan K has announced January 3 as the date of launch, the most recent review meeting on Chandrayaan-2, held on September 19, has suggested that January 30 may be more ideal.

Quote
The TOI has been tracking Chandrayaan-2 closely and broken several developments, including the decision that the Lander, which according to the original plan was to land soon after separating from the payload, is to now orbit around the moon before landing. Chandrayaan-2, unlike the first mission, involves a Lander soft-landing on the lunar surface and unloading a Rover to study and take measurements from the Moon, while the orbiter will go around the Earth's satellite.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: sanman on 10/12/2018 03:22 pm
Cryo engine for Chandrayaan-2's launcher (GSLV-Mk3) was tested:

http://www.spacetechasia.com/isro-successfully-tests-engine-for-chandrayaan-2-opens-new-center/

(https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/cryogenic_gslv_mkiii.jpg)

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: PonRam on 10/12/2018 11:50 pm
Any idea what changes have been made to the E6 version of this engine?
What is specially needed for the Chandrayaan-2 mission?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 10/13/2018 05:03 am
GSLV MK-III cryo engine to be used to launch Chandrayaan-2 tested (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/gslv-mk-iii-cryo-engine-to-be-used-to-launch-chandrayaan-2-tested/articleshow/66184571.cms)

ISRO successfully tests Cryogenic Engine (CE-20) for GSLV Mk-III / Chandrayaan-2 Mission (https://www.isro.gov.in/update/12-oct-2018/isro-successfully-tests-cryogenic-engine-ce-20-gslv-mk-iii-chandrayaan-2-mission)

Quote
The Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), on Friday said it has successfully tested the Cryogenic Engine (CE-20) for GSLV Mk-III, which is earmarked for the launch of India's second moon mission, Chandrayaan-2. The test was done on October 11. The GSLV MK-III vehicle's upper stage is powered by the CE-20, which operates on a gas generator cycle using a combination of liquid oxygen (LOX) and liquid hydrogen (LH2) propellants.

Quote
The fifth hardware of CE-20 integrated engine designated as E6 is earmarked for GSLV Mk-III M1-Chandrayaan 2 mission. According to Isro, the "flight acceptance hot test" test lasted 25 seconds, and it was conducted at the High Altitude Test facility, Isro Propulsion Complex (IPRC), Mahendragiri. "The test demonstrated steady state operation of engine and the performance of all engine subsystems were observed to be normal during the hot test," Isro said.

"The major subsystems of the engine are thrust chamber, gas generator, LOX and LH2 turbo pumps, igniters, thrust and mixture ratio control systems, Start-up system, control components and pyro valves," Isro said, adding that the CE-20 develops a nominal thrust of 186.36 kN with a specific impulse of 442 seconds in vacuum.

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 2019
Post by: sanman on 10/14/2018 02:55 am
Any idea what changes have been made to the E6 version of this engine?
What is specially needed for the Chandrayaan-2 mission?

Doesn't necessarily sound like anything was changed - this was just a validation of the flight hardware. After all, the Chandrayaan-2 mission is quite important.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 30 2019
Post by: chetan_chpd on 10/19/2018 03:18 pm
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/as-india-gears-up-for-chandrayaan-2-china-moots-artificial-moons-in-space/articleshow/66284431.cms
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 30 2019
Post by: sanman on 10/21/2018 03:42 pm
Chandrayaan II almost ready: PRL ex-director

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/chandrayaan-ii-almost-ready-prl-ex-director/articleshow/66298429.cms

Quote
Eminent scientist and former Physical Research Laboratory (PRL) director Prof J N Goswami, speaking on sidelines of his lecture at IIT Gandhinagar, said that the project is ‘almost ready’ and has shaped well. “We are expecting the launch in next few months,” he said.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 30 2019
Post by: PonRam on 10/26/2018 02:24 pm
Chandrayaan-2 Lander Actuator Performance Test (LAPT) Phase 2 completed successfuly.

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/26-oct-2018/chandrayaan-2-lander-actuator-performance-test-lapt-phase-2
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 30 2019
Post by: PonRam on 10/27/2018 12:05 am
In the photo on the ISRO link above, there are only 4 800N thrusters instead of 5. Are they still using the old diagram of the lander? Any idea why the 5th thruster is not seen?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 30 2019
Post by: srikanthr124 on 10/27/2018 07:26 am
In the photo on the ISRO link above, there are only 4 800N thrusters instead of 5. Are they still using the old diagram of the lander? Any idea why the 5th thruster is not seen?
I think in that link they have most probably used an old test image.there should be an 5th engine.And without that engine the test will be incomplete.And why should they omit critical component in testing...
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 30 2019
Post by: K210 on 10/27/2018 10:42 am
As the Mk-3 D2 mission slips into december it is becoming more and more likely that this launch will only take place in febuary-march next year at earliest.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 30 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 11/08/2018 06:39 am
Chandrayaan -2 launch mission is on track and is to be launched in January, 2019, according to ISRO Chairman.

Quote
Isro chairman K Sivan said, "All three rockets and GSLV Mk II are almost ready." Preparations are also on for launch of Chandrayaan-2 and for the human space flight programme, he added.

Chandrayaan-2 will be launched in January next year. It will land on moon with a rover to conduct scientific experiments.

Source : Isro lines up 3 rocket launches in two months (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kochi/isro-lines-up-3-rocket-launches-in-two-months/articleshow/66538316.cms)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 30 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 11/12/2018 07:03 am
ISRO Chairman has said that ISRO may launch Chandrayaan-II on January 3, next year.

Quote
On the country's highly ambitious Chandrayaan-II mission, Sivan said, "We are targeting to launch the Chandrayaan mission on January 3. If some slippage happens, we have the launch window till February 16. We can launch the mission any day before February 16."

On lunar payloads, the chairman said, "The orbiter, lander and rover were being tested for the lunar mission. In fact, three-stage tests were conducted on the lander since last month. Some corrective measures were taken after the initial test. During the final phase of the lander actuator performance test, all on board systems like computer, software and propulsion systems were together tested at the Isro centre in Mahendragiri, Tamil Nadu and all the tests were successful."

The assembling of the GSLV Mk III rocket, which will carry the lunar spacecraft, that usually takes 50 days, "will be done well in time before January 3", the chairman said.

Source : Isro to launch communication satellite specifically for J&K and NE on Nov 14 (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-to-launch-communication-satellite-specifically-for-jk-and-ne-on-nov-14/articleshow/66580405.cms)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 30 2019
Post by: sanman on 11/23/2018 09:25 pm
This latest article mentions a launch date of January 31 for Chandrayaan-2:

https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/lunar-lander-faces-crucial-test/article25580600.ece

Quote
The orbiter carrying the lander and a rover is scheduled to be sent to the Moon from Sriharikota on January 31 and expected to reach there sometime in February 2019.

They also mention that validation testing will continue right until the very end:

Quote
About two years back, ISRO had started readying a part of the Challakere site to resemble lunar craters and had conducted a few preliminary sensor tests. Features of the lander have since been modified and the upcoming tests will also validate the new design. “The development and testing of the orbiter are over. Lander-related activities are going on. We will then add the rover also [to tests.] Until the mission is launched, we would be testing all systems continuously after every integration,” said Dr. Sivan.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 31 2019
Post by: SPARTAN-B312 on 12/29/2018 01:31 pm
Did it get delayed again? This article says it's by Feb end.


http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/karnataka/2018/dec/27/busy-year-ahead-for-isro-chandrayaan-2-mission-launch-likely-by-feb-end-1917152.html (http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/karnataka/2018/dec/27/busy-year-ahead-for-isro-chandrayaan-2-mission-launch-likely-by-feb-end-1917152.html)

Quote
Sivan, in 2018, had said that Chandrayaan-2 will be launched aboard Geosynchronous Launch Vehicle (GSLV) Mk III in the first quarter of 2019, and the mission is expected to be launched by February end.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 31 2019
Post by: A.K. on 12/29/2018 02:25 pm
Did it get delayed again? This article says it's by Feb end.
Quote
Sivan, in 2018, had said that Chandrayaan-2 will be launched aboard Geosynchronous Launch Vehicle (GSLV) Mk III in the first quarter of 2019, and the mission is expected to be launched by February end.
"Sivan had said that"
I was wondering if somebody could find reference which interview was this, we may be able to conclude.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 31 2019
Post by: sanjaykumar on 01/01/2019 07:05 am
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/chandrayaan-2-not-to-blast-off-on-jan-3-isro-yet-to-fix-launch-date/articleshow/67331218.cms

chandrayan 2 delayed. No new dates
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 31 2019
Post by: A.K. on 01/01/2019 09:33 am
I thought we were pretty sure that it won't be launched on January 3rd otherwise lot of noise would have already been there.
 I personally was estimating window after 27 days post Jan 3. If not Jan 31, then Feb 13.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 31 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 01/01/2019 08:15 pm
Of course not. GSLV MK-III has to carry more payload ( 400 kg ) than the last GSLV MK-III D2 flight. Then there is the issue of the soft-landing of lander, rover. Unless these two things are fixed, it wouldn't be wise of ISRO to launch Chandrayaan-2.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET mid-February 2019
Post by: input~2 on 01/04/2019 08:08 am
Launch now expected by mid-February
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/indias-second-moon-mission-gets-delayed-again/articleshow/67364039.cms
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET January 31 2019
Post by: sanman on 01/04/2019 12:04 pm
Of course not. GSLV MK-III has to carry more payload ( 400 kg ) than the last GSLV MK-III D2 flight. Then there is the issue of the soft-landing of lander, rover. Unless these two things are fixed, it wouldn't be wise of ISRO to launch Chandrayaan-2.

Agreed - better for the mission to be delayed than to have the mission fail due to lack of time for preparation.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII NET mid-February 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 01/05/2019 06:37 am
Launch now expected by mid-February
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/indias-second-moon-mission-gets-delayed-again/articleshow/67364039.cms

What is the Chandrayaan 2 launch mass ? Isn't it 3,877 kg ?

Launch mass   Combined: 3,877 kg (8,547 lb)
Payload mass   Orbiter: 2,379 kg (5,245 lb)
      Lander:1,471 kg (3,243 lb)
      Rover: 27 kg (60 lb)
      
Why are the above report from many Indian newspapers such as economictimes and even the ISRO Chandrayaan 2 page ISRO Chandrayaan 2 page (https://www.isro.gov.in/gslv-mk-iii-chandrayaan-2-mission) still showing the old launch mass ( 3290 kg ) ?

In the September, 2018 version of Frontline Magazine's Science Section, in an interview, K. Sivan told T. S. Subramanian that the launch mass grown to 3.8 ton.

Quote
The mass of the earlier composite module of Chandrayaan-2 was 3.2 tonnes. It has gone up to 3.8 tonnes now.

Earlier, we had thought of a 22,000 kilometre orbit [for 3.2 tonnes]. Now because of the increase in mass, the orbit has also increased. The orbit should be around 37,000 km.

It should now be 170 km x 37,000 km instead of 170 km x 22,000 km.

It is 170 km by 37,000 km. Since the mass has increased, the spacecraft has to be put into a higher orbit. Only then it is possible to reach the moon. Because of this, our old plan of launching Chandrayaan-2 by GSLV-MkII is not possible. We have changed Chandrayaan-2 to GSLV-MkIII for this reason.

ISRO developing vehicle to launch small satellites (https://www.frontline.in/science-and-technology/article24801393.ece)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII mid-February 2019
Post by: chota on 01/07/2019 04:27 am
Chandrayaan - 2 mission is planned within three months from now :-(

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/trichy/launch-of-chandrayaan-2-could-take-three-more-months-says-isro-chief/articleshow/67412270.cms?utm_campaign=andapp&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=native_share_tray
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII mid-February 2019
Post by: Salo on 01/08/2019 02:49 pm
https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Tiruchirapalli/isro-to-set-up-space-technology-incubation-centre-in-tiruchi/article25926412.ece
Quote
Terming Chandrayan - 2 mission a calculated risk, he said it has been planned within the next three months. The landing site will be above 70 degree latitude where no one else has gone before, he said.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII mid-February 2019
Post by: K210 on 01/09/2019 02:47 am
More likely than not this will launch in March-April
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII mid-February 2019
Post by: K210 on 01/09/2019 02:49 am
If March-April launch date holds than it will be more than 10 years from approval to launch. September 2008 - March 2019.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII mid-February 2019
Post by: sanman on 01/09/2019 01:40 pm
Hopefully it works and doesn't fail - that's the more important thing
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII mid-February 2019
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/10/2019 02:34 am
What are the next launch windows, if Chandrayaann-2 does not launch by February 16?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII mid-February 2019
Post by: K210 on 01/10/2019 11:19 am
What are the next launch windows, if Chandrayaann-2 does not launch by February 16?

Launch window is open till end of march
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII mid-February 2019
Post by: K210 on 01/10/2019 11:22 am
Hopefully it works and doesn't fail - that's the more important thing

I agree. Given the large investment of time and resources a failure would be devastating at this stage.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII mid-February 2019
Post by: nbharatwaj on 01/11/2019 09:00 am
It looks like chandrayaan-2 has been pushed to end of April.

https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/isro-announces-human-space-flight-centre/article25967944.ece?homepage=true
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII mid-February 2019
Post by: sanman on 01/11/2019 11:48 am
I thought they said the launch window is only open until March - how can April be feasible?

If they can't make the launch window, then when does the next window occur?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII mid-February 2019
Post by: Phillip Clark on 01/11/2019 12:25 pm
What parameters are defining the launch window?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII mid-February 2019
Post by: Salo on 01/11/2019 12:28 pm
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/chandrayaan-2-mission-planned-for-middle-of-april-isro/articleshow/67484715.cms
Quote
"Regarding Chandrayaan-2 schedule, right now Chandrayaan is scheduled from March 25 to April end. Most probably, the normal targeted date is April middle," Sivan told reporters here.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/watch-isro-chief-briefs-media-on-chandrayaan-2-indias-mission-to-mars/videoshow/67484120.cms
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII mid-February 2019
Post by: sanman on 01/11/2019 12:30 pm
What parameters are defining the launch window?

I assume it's the ability to land at the target site at the end of the lunar night, so that the full span of the lunar day period can be used for the mission, before it freezes and goes offline.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - March 25 to mid April 2019
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/18/2019 01:54 pm
Chandrayaan-2
1. Mission postponed till April (-May?).
2. Reasons: to increase robustness, reconfigure the lander, All systems needs re-development (?), requires tests.

(ISRO chairman press conference highlights
https://www.chetansindiaspaceflight.com/2019/01/news-update-isro-chairman-press.html)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - March 25 to mid April 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 01/20/2019 05:42 am
ISRO looking to land rockets on runways (https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/science/isro-looking-to-land-rockets-on-runways/article26030612.ece)

Quote
According to Sivan, the much-delayed launch of Chandrayaan-2 - India's lunar lander - is now scheduled for March-April this year. The launch, originally scheduled for last April, was delayed as the spacecraft had to be reconfigured to bring in more redundancy to ensure safety as recommended by experts, he said.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - March 25 to mid April 2019
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/20/2019 10:00 pm
Apologies if this was addressed up-thread or elsewhere on the forum...

Would not a fundamental change of LV require at least some re-testing of the payload towards re-certification for launch:
For example--vibrational/acoustical testing?

That would explain some of the delay?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - March 25 to mid April 2019
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/28/2019 05:08 am
source: ANI/IDRW

PM Modi said, "We will soon register India’s presence on the Moon through the Chandrayaan-2 campaign" during his monthly radio address to the nation.

can we safely assume that there wont be any more delays in launch of the mission? since PMO should have taken inputs from ISRO before drafting this speech...

(https://www.chetansindiaspaceflight.com/2019/01/news-update-pm-modi-on-indias-moon.html)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - March 25 to mid April 2019
Post by: smoliarm on 01/28/2019 06:48 am
...

can we safely assume that there wont be any more delays in launch of the mission?
...
IMHO, no.

Delay is always an option,
and
Delay is infinitely better than failure.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - March 25 to mid April 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 01/28/2019 06:50 am
Also, he only said 'soon', which is not very precise.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - March 25 to mid April 2019
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/29/2019 08:45 am
Delay is always an option,
and
Delay is infinitely better than failure.

As long as the delay is not infinite. :-)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: chetan_chpd on 01/30/2019 10:18 am
News update: Chandrayaan-2 launch by April end- K.Sivan

1. ISRO chairman K.Sivan confirmed Chandrayaan-2 launch by April end
2. he told this to press on Tuesday on the sidelines of Space Symposium at Pune
3. the decision of launch has been finalized
4. testing phase underway, will be ready by april end
5. around 3290 kg weight of the spacecraft
6. budget: 800 crore INR (approximately 112 million USD)
7. director of physical research lab, Mr. Anil Bhardwaj gave a presentation on Chandrayaan-2 at the symposium
8. orbiter would circle the moon "on a 100 km high orbit"
9. report mentions 3D mapping of lunar geography, studying composition of rocks, exosphere, testing new technologies for "future missions"

(https://www.chetansindiaspaceflight.com/2019/01/news-update-chandrayaan-2-launch-by.html)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: chetan_chpd on 02/06/2019 03:41 am
source: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isros-gsat-31-launched-from-french-guiana-to-replace-dying-insat-4cr-sat/articleshow/67859945.cms

K Sivan- chairman, ISRO said, "we are using the services of Arianespace as it is an emergency (today's GSAT-31 launch)***
our MK III rockets are already booked for Chandrayaan-2 and other important missions"

looks like CH-2 is on schedule for April launch :D :D :D
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: TheVarun on 02/06/2019 12:58 pm
^
There are many people who ask naively  why ISRO is using the services of Arianespace when it has the GSLV.  It's about availability, quickness of turnover, weight of satellite,etc. Ariane will be needed for years to come. Perhaps by 2021 or 2022 end, ISRO will be fully self-reliant in this regard.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: PM3 on 02/16/2019 01:41 am
Currently planned for end of April, at the end of the six weeks launch window.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/chandrayaan-2-set-for-launch-by-april-end/articleshow/67746542.cms
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: chetan_chpd on 02/18/2019 04:47 am
source: the hindu

A national review committee to meet for the first time in Bengaluru (March 5 and 6) to comprehensively discuss on details of Gaganyaan project.

The committee will also be briefed on the lunar lander and rover mission, Chandrayaan-2.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: sanman on 03/05/2019 07:53 pm
Why can't we have some kind of tiny data archive carried aboard our lander for it to take to the surface of the Moon, for the sake of posterity? The SpaceIL lander has one, based on technology from Arch Foundation, as a tiny crystal with data etched into it. This data archive is tiny in mass, but rich with information from Israel's cultural heritage. Likewise, the Voyager space probes famously had information about Earth & humanity stored on them. Why can't we do some of these things, especially if it doesn't involve any substantial mass penalty?

When ISRO came up with the idea to send Chandrayaan-1 to the Moon, it took an extra nudge from President Kalam, himself a veteran rocket scientist, to suggest the inclusion of the Impactor probe. He had the sagacity to recognize that if you're taking the trouble to go all the way to the Moon, them you may as well touch its surface too.

If we're taking the trouble to land something on the surface of the Moon, then why not include a data repository for the sake of posterity? How difficult could it be?

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 03/05/2019 11:37 pm
I agree with you, but the time to ask this question was 5 years ago.  Now there isn't enough time to even design an archive, let alone make it and integrate it into Chandrayaan 2 before launch next month.  But maybe you should present this idea to Team Indus.  Their first launch with OrbitBeyond is currently planned for 2020, so you have more time to get it going.  And they are looking at a series of landers in future, so any one of them might be a suitable host for your archive.  But Chandrayaan 2 - way too late.
 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 03/26/2019 07:22 pm
I thought that Chandrayaan-2 would carry only the Indian instruments unlike the Chandrayaan-1.  Now it appears that Chandrayaan-2 will carry NASA'S laser instruments.

Quote
India's lunar mission Chandrayaan 2, scheduled to launch next month, will carry NASA's laser instruments that allow scientists to make precise measurements of the distance to the Moon, according to the US space agency officials. During the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference held at Texas, US last week, NASA confirmed that Chandrayaan 2 and Israeli lander Beresheet, due to touch down April 11, will each carry NASA-owned laser retroreflector arrays.

"We're trying to populate the entire surface with as many laser reflector arrays as we can possibly get there," Lori Glaze, acting director of the Planetary Science Division of NASA's Science Mission Directorate, was reported as saying by 'Space.com'. While five such instruments already exist on the lunar surface, they have some flaws, according to Simone Dell'Agnello, a physicist at the National Institute for Nuclear Physics National Laboratory at Italy.

Source : Chandrayaan 2 will carry NASA's laser instruments to Moon (https://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/chandrayaan-2-will-carry-nasa-s-laser-instruments-to-moon-119032500474_1.html)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 03/27/2019 03:10 pm
"I thought that Chandrayaan-2 would carry only the Indian instruments unlike the Chandrayaan-1.  Now it appears that Chandrayaan-2 will carry NASA'S laser instruments."

This is a last-minute addition so all the previous statements were true when made.  And it's not actually an instrument, only a little mirror.  The laser is on Earth (or possibly in future on an orbiting spacecraft).  NASA is keen to get as many of these on the Moon as it can, as they say in the release.  Look for reflectors on many of the CLPS missions as well.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: chota on 03/29/2019 09:12 am
• The LRA is a passive instrument (So it means it does not need any power supply?)
• The retroflectors are placed on the nadir face of the satellite (So LRA will be stuck to the top of Vikram lander?)

https://www.aviso.altimetry.fr/en/missions/current-missions/jason-2/instruments/lra/index.html (https://www.aviso.altimetry.fr/en/missions/current-missions/jason-2/instruments/lra/index.html)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: maint1234 on 03/29/2019 12:49 pm
• The LRA is a passive instrument (So it means it does not need any power supply?)
• The retroflectors are placed on the nadir face of the satellite (So LRA will be stuck to the top of Vikram lander?)

https://www.aviso.altimetry.fr/en/missions/current-missions/jason-2/instruments/lra/index.html (https://www.aviso.altimetry.fr/en/missions/current-missions/jason-2/instruments/lra/index.html)
Hope India is charging usa a pretty penny and not doing it for free. Anyone knows how much is India charging for taking this reflector to the moon ?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: TheVarun on 03/29/2019 01:14 pm
 Is the launch date on course? If the PSLV C-45/Emisat is being launched from the second launch pad, will that positively cause a delay for the Chandrayaan-2 mission schedule?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 03/29/2019 03:05 pm
NASA can't ship funds to another country, as i understand it.  If ISRO is carrying a reflector, India is getting something in kind, not cash.  Probably communications help (like Beresheet) or other similar assistance.  E.g. use of the DSN at times when India doesn't have direct communication with the spacecraft.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: worldtimedate on 03/29/2019 06:59 pm
NASA can't ship funds to another country, as i understand it.  If ISRO is carrying a reflector, India is getting something in kind, not cash.  Probably communications help (like Beresheet) or other similar assistance.  E.g. use of the DSN at times when India doesn't have direct communication with the spacecraft.

Thanks for your clarification. With the current Deep Space Network comprising 1 11 meter antenna, 1 18 meter antenna and 1 32 meter antenna, Indian DSN is more than capable of communicating with Moon, Venus etc. Indian DSN was successfully used for the Chandrayaan-1 Mission and even for MOM. It was only when the MOM went out of the sight of Indian DSN, NASA DSN was used, because unlike NASA DSN, Indian DSN does NOT have presence globally as its 3 antennas are not dispersed all across the globe.

For communicating with outer planets such as Mars etc., NASA DSN help will be needed just like the case of MARS Orbiter Mission, because NASA DSN has complete 360 deg. coverage with each antenna located 120 degrees apart from each other located in Goldstone, California, USA, Madrid, Spain and Canberra, Australia

Indian Deep Space Network
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Deep_Space_Network
http://www.isro.gov.in/about-isro/isro-telemetry-tracking-and-command-network-istrac

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 03/29/2019 10:42 pm
To my understanding...seeking clarification or correction...

EMISat et al. is scheduled to launch on April 1 IST from the SLP.

Chandrayaan-2 is scheduled to launch from the SLP at the end of April, the closing of the current GSLV III-powered lunar launch window.

Reduced launch turn-around at SLP is to be realized by the additional capabilities of the Second Vehicle Assembly Building (SVAB).  This allows parallel integration in the SVAB, plus integration in the original VAB.

Additionally, some launch campaign tasks can be accomplished in the Solid Stage Assembly Building (SSAB) before moving the LV to the SVAB.

If all of these capabilities are all up and running, this would allow a launch turn-around at the SLP within approximately 30 days?

(The interval between SLP launches, in November and December 2018, of GSLV Mk III D2 and GSLV Mk II F11, was 35 days.)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: TheVarun on 03/30/2019 12:26 pm
"Reduced launch turn-around at SLP is to be realized by the additional capabilities of the Second Vehicle Assembly Building (SVAB).  This allows parallel integration in the SVAB, plus integration in the original VAB.

Additionally, some launch campaign tasks can be accomplished in the Solid Stage Assembly Building (SSAB) before moving the LV to the SVAB.

If all of these capabilities are all up and running, this would allow a launch turn-around at the SLP within approximately 30 days?"

 Very good, this is heartening information. Also, the absence of any mention of further delays by ISRO, makes it look like Chandrayaan will go up within a month!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 03/30/2019 03:22 pm
So, my question is:
Do we have proof that the SVAB is operational and in use for the Chandrayaan-2 launch campaign?

I recall in other threads in this sub-forum comments about the "event" coverage that was expected when the SVAB opened, up to and including a visit by the Prime Minister.  There's been no event or statement, to my knowledge, announcing "We're open for business!"
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET April 2019
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 04/01/2019 06:16 am
From the EMISAT end of launch speech, this is now after RISAT 2BR1 on C46 in the middle of May and Cartosat 3 on C47. So this makes this launch NET May.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - 2019
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 04/01/2019 06:22 am
Do we know the timing and extent of the next Chandrayaan-2 launch window?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - 2019
Post by: PM3 on 04/01/2019 06:54 am
Do we know the timing and extent of the next Chandrayaan-2 launch window?

The previous window was sometime in January – February; the current is 25 March to end April. Continuing this scheme, I would expect the next ~5 weeks window within the timeframe late May to mid July.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: chetan_chpd on 04/04/2019 05:41 am
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/damage-to-moon-lander-delays-chandrayaan-2/articleshow/68714029.cms

'Vikram' Lander "broken its legs" during tests!

i think i am not sure whether this excuse is genuine or not...
 :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 04/04/2019 05:49 am
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/damage-to-moon-lander-delays-chandrayaan-2/articleshow/68714029.cms

'Vikram' Lander "broken its legs" during tests!

i think i am not sure whether this excuse is genuine or not...
 :'( :'( :'(

The article is a bit confusing.

"A source in the know, said: “The rover and orbiter are in good health and tests met all the parameters. However, after the ‘Lander Drop Test’, we found that Vikram (the lander) needed to be strengthened in its legs. Prima facie, it appears that not all parameters were set correctly before the test, it could also be that the additional mass—a result of the new configuration—caused the problem.”"

First sentence says that the "tests met all the parameters" while the second sentence says "not all parameters were set correctly". Perhaps they mean the tests "correctly met the incorrect parameters"?!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: vineethgk on 04/04/2019 06:07 am


The article is a bit confusing.

"A source in the know, said: “The rover and orbiter are in good health and tests met all the parameters. However, after the ‘Lander Drop Test’, we found that Vikram (the lander) needed to be strengthened in its legs. Prima facie, it appears that not all parameters were set correctly before the test, it could also be that the additional mass—a result of the new configuration—caused the problem.”"

First sentence says that the "tests met all the parameters" while the second sentence says "not all parameters were set correctly". Perhaps they mean the tests "correctly met the incorrect parameters"?!
Perhaps what the 'source' meant is, the
Orbiter and the Rover passed their share of tests conducted separately, but the Lander failed its landing test.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: K210 on 04/04/2019 06:49 pm
I know this is a moot point to make now but if they had just stuck with the original config they finalised back in 2010 this mission would have been launched in 2017/2018 latest. If this launches anytime in 2019 it would be good but given the significant changes they keep making over and over i would not be surprised if this were delayed into 2020/2021.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 04/04/2019 10:09 pm
But that original version was with a Russian lander, which probably would still be stuck on Earth now.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: K210 on 04/05/2019 06:48 am
But that original version was with a Russian lander, which probably would still be stuck on Earth now.

Original version was revised with indian lander in 2014. It would have been ready for launch by 2017-2018 in its orginal config.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: vineethgk on 04/05/2019 07:16 am
But that original version was with a Russian lander, which probably would still be stuck on Earth now.

Original version was revised with indian lander in 2014. It would have been ready for launch by 2017-2018 in its orginal config.
But from my understanding the lander configuration that was 'ready' for launch in 2017/2018 was found to be faulty during tests, and they had to redesign it (adding a fifth lander engine etc.. ) leading to the extra mass and new round of lander tests. Isn't it? So I guess it was pretty much unavoidable, or else the mission would have ended in failure.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: Phillip Clark on 04/05/2019 07:49 am
Maybe this will be finally launched just as the Chinese put their first crew on the Moon?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: vineethgk on 04/05/2019 10:12 am
Maybe this will be finally launched just as the Chinese put their first crew on the Moon?
Maybe the second half of this year. I'm putting my money on 2020 though.. ;)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: AJA on 04/05/2019 10:27 am
Maybe this will be finally launched just as the Chinese put their first crew on the Moon?

Attempting to start a space-race?

(http://lolthulhu.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/thecubist-i_see_what_you.gif)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: abhishek on 04/05/2019 12:29 pm
Maybe this will be finally launched just as the Chinese put their first crew on the Moon?
Maybe the second half of this year. I'm putting my money on 2020 though.. ;)

Thus risking the project getting scrapped altogether just like what happens with other ambitious government projects.

But one thing is for sure,the project will loose it's nationalistic fervor which from one angle is good as science will be the only focus.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: PM3 on 04/06/2019 04:20 pm
Next possible launch window after April will be in June.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/after-pslv-c45-success-isro-sets-focus-on-next-pslv-for-risat-launch/articleshow/68753149.cms
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: sanman on 04/07/2019 04:52 am
ISRO needs to sharpen up its project management culture and practices in order to avoid damaging its credibility. If it takes lots of time to achieve the goal then so be it, just as long as you manage expectations and don't get ahead of yourself.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: K210 on 04/08/2019 02:47 am
But that original version was with a Russian lander, which probably would still be stuck on Earth now.

Original version was revised with indian lander in 2014. It would have been ready for launch by 2017-2018 in its orginal config.
But from my understanding the lander configuration that was 'ready' for launch in 2017/2018 was found to be faulty during tests, and they had to redesign it (adding a fifth lander engine etc.. ) leading to the extra mass and new round of lander tests. Isn't it? So I guess it was pretty much unavoidable, or else the mission would have ended in failure.

Not quite. There was no fault with the original design. From 2010-2017 the original design was worked on and was nearing a launch sometime in 2016-2017 timeframe. Around mid 2017 our Mk-3 launch vehicle came online and with it a substantially higher payload capability. The fifth engine and other tweaks this updated chandraayan-2 has is to improve on the base design not to fix flaws. The lander would have been a little less stable but still have worked in its original four engine config. If this was not the case what was the dev team doing from 2014-2017? Why did the original config pass numerous design review over the years?

While in the short term this is going to delay indian lunar ambitions in the long run it will probably end up being advantageous due to it lessening the technological gap between Chandraayan-2 and future advanced lunar missions. This will mean a chandraayan-3/4 will be easier if they decide to go for it.

Still this does mean that there will be at least a ~10 year gap between our first two lunar missions as well as losing fourth spot for lunar soft landing to a lunar x prize participant.....
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: chota on 04/08/2019 01:03 pm
As per this version of news

• The engineering model of the moon-lander "Vikram" was damaged
• The flight model of the 'Vikram' Lander is safe

https://www.ndtv.com/science/indias-flagship-chandrayaan-2-moon-mission-suffers-setback-2017977 (https://www.ndtv.com/science/indias-flagship-chandrayaan-2-moon-mission-suffers-setback-2017977)

 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: PM3 on 04/26/2019 04:11 pm
Now scheduled for second half of July:

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/isro-postpones-chandrayaan-2-to-july-after-israels-failed-moon-mission-2028709
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: Phillip Clark on 04/26/2019 04:39 pm
Now scheduled for second half of July:

Which year? ;)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: vineethgk on 04/27/2019 04:01 pm
ISRO Delays Chandrayaan 2 Launch Again – But How Is Beresheet Involved? (https://thewire.in/space/isro-delays-chandrayaan-2-launch-again-but-how-is-beresheet-involved)

A scathing assessment of ISRO's notorious bureaucratic opaqueness and penchant to flaunt over-optimistic deadlines with regard to its projects.

Long overdue, if you ask me..
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: TheVarun on 05/01/2019 03:38 pm
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/01-may-2019/press-release-chandrayaan-2

Good news, now official, launch in July
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: PM3 on 05/01/2019 03:43 pm
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/01-may-2019/press-release-chandrayaan-2

Good news, now official, launch in July, dates given

Launch window July 9-16, 2019
Landing ~ September 6, 2019
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 05/01/2019 08:48 pm

And that release has a name for the rover, Pragyan, meaning Wisdom according to Wikipedia, or Knowledge according to New Delhi TV.

Phil
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 05/02/2019 07:29 am
Launch configuration. The tube that connects them seems a bit longer than necessary.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: K210 on 05/02/2019 12:11 pm
At 3850 kg this will be the heaviest payload to be launched by GSLV Mk-3 so far
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: TheVarun on 05/02/2019 02:05 pm
 Is that figure of 3850kg confirmed?  There were articles that mentioned a reduced mass of about 3200+ kg, and not just for the GSLV Mk2.   Still great though.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: TheVarun on 05/02/2019 02:11 pm
 Like this one... 

https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/second-lunar-mission-chandrayaan-2-to-be-launched-in-july/article27003022.ece?homepage=true

  "The Chandrayaan-2 weighs around 3,290 kg, according to ISRO. It would orbit around the moon and carry out remote sensing of the moon. “The payloads w.."
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 05/02/2019 06:00 pm
With or without fuel?  Before or after orbit insertion?  Confusion may arise easily enough.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: K210 on 05/03/2019 05:54 am
With or without fuel?  Before or after orbit insertion?  Confusion may arise easily enough.

With fuel. It is the mass of the entire chandraayan-2 stack at liftoff.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: K210 on 05/03/2019 05:56 am
Is that figure of 3850kg confirmed?  There were articles that mentioned a reduced mass of about 3200+ kg, and not just for the GSLV Mk2.   Still great though.

Yes it was confirmed back in march. They lifted the mass from 3200 kg to around 3800 kg to better utilise the GSLV Mk-3 launch vehicle.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: sanman on 05/04/2019 05:03 am
Yes it was confirmed back in march. They lifted the mass from 3200 kg to around 3800 kg to better utilise the GSLV Mk-3 launch vehicle.

What's the extra mass consist of mainly? The landing-thruster upgrades, leg-reinforcement, and better science payloads?
Has the orbiter been beefed up?

I'm also wondering how well the latest launch date announcement lines up with the optimal lunar daylight requirements for the surface component of the mission.
Is it possible to have flexibility on the launch date simply by delaying the actual progress toward the Moon?
(I'm speculatively wondering about that just in case there was some political compulsion in nailing down this current launch date.)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: TheVarun on 05/10/2019 12:33 pm
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/09-may-2019/chandrayaan-2-update

  An update. Don't like the "targeted" word, but nice to see confirmation of the 3.8 tonne weight/mass :)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: srikanthr124 on 05/15/2019 09:08 pm
Chandrayaan-2 will carry Nasa payload too, will calculate Earth-Moon distance  (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/nasa-module-will-be-on-board-chandrayaan-2-will-calculate-earth-moon-distance/articleshow/69349959.cms)

Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) has for the first time revealed that Chandrayaan-2 lunarcraft, to be launched in July, will carry a Nasa “passive experimental instrument” to the Moon.

Nasa's “passive experimental instrument” on board will use this module to calculate the distance between the Earth and the Moon...
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: Phil Stooke on 05/16/2019 01:51 am
It is a laser reflector like the one carried on Beresheet, and updated from the old ones carried by apollo and lunokhod.  This is not really completely new news, it has been mentioned before in recent months.  Reflectors like this will be carried on many of the forthcoming landers.   
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: srikanthr124 on 05/16/2019 02:56 am
It is a laser reflector like the one carried on Beresheet, and updated from the old ones carried by apollo and lunokhod.  This is not really completely new news, it has been mentioned before in recent months.  Reflectors like this will be carried on many of the forthcoming landers.

During the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference held at Texas, US, in March, Nasa had confirmed that Chandrayaan-2 and Israeli lander Beresheet, which crashlanded on the Moon’s surface on April 11 this year, would each carry Nasa-owned laser retroreflector arrays. However, Isro did not disclose about the Nasa instrument till now.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: TheVarun on 05/17/2019 12:56 pm
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/15-may-2019/benefits-of-chandrayaan-2

  The multiple benefits of Chandrayaan-2. 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 05/22/2019 08:46 pm
Cross-post from the post-successful launch speeches of PSLV C46; confirmation of launch window:
ISRO Chairman and Department of Space Secretary.

Chandrayaan 2 between 9 and 16 July. Landing on Moon on 6 September.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 9-16, 2019
Post by: A.K. on 06/04/2019 07:01 am
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/03-jun-2019/challenges-of-moon-landing
Jun 03, 2019
The challenges of a Moon landing
(https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/moon-landing-infographics-11.jpg)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 15, 2019
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 06/09/2019 12:01 pm
Launch date in the July 9-16 launch window!  Cross-post:
https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/090619/bengaluru-rakesh-sharma-attends-gaganyaan-review.html
Quote
Chandrayaan to be launched on July 15
India's second lunar mission, Chandrayaan-II, will be launched on July 15 by a GSLV-MkIII rocket from Satish Dhawan Space Centre (SDSC), Sriharikota Range. A combo of an orbiter, a lander named 'Vikram' (after the late Dr Vikram Sarabhai), and a rover christened 'Pragyan', it will cruise through outer space for two months before entering into an orbit around the earth's nearest astral neighbour. The lander-rover will touch down on the Moon, close to the South Pole, in the first week of September to probe the lunar surface as well as carryout experiments. In all, 13 instruments (eight on the orbiter, three on the lander, and two on the rover) along with one from NASA (a laser retro-reflector array or LRA) will be carried onboard Chandrayaan-II, according to sources in ISRO.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 15, 2019
Post by: chota on 06/10/2019 12:57 pm
Chandrayaan-2 nearly ready for July launch (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-nearly-ready-for-july-launch/articleshow/69724508.cms)

• Spacecraft Integration nearly complete
• Final tests are on at Mahendragiri and Byalalu
• Spacecraft will leave Bengaluru on June 19
• Might reach the launchpad in Sriharikota on June 20 or 21
• Planned launch date July 9
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 15, 2019
Post by: Vikranth on 06/12/2019 06:59 am
Recently released pictures of Chandrayaan 2 Orbiter and Lander undergoing tests in ISRO Satellite Centre in Bengaluru.They scheduled to leave for Shriharikota on June 19.
Source:ANI News
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 15, 2019
Post by: Vikranth on 06/12/2019 09:13 am
Just now announced by ISRO Chairman K.Shivan that GSLV MK III/Chandrayaan 2 will launch on 15th of July at 02:51 AM IST(14th July 09:21 PM GMT).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 15, 2019
Post by: chota on 06/12/2019 10:18 am
• Chandrayaan-2 will be launched at 2.51am on July 15
• The cost of the mission—including foreign service for navigation is approx. Rs 603 crores or 87 mill USD
• Launch cost is approx. Rs 375 crores or 54 mill USD
• India will use the Deep Space Network of NASA on payment basis for navigation and guidance
• The total weight of the spacecraft is 3.8 tonne 
• There are 5 orbit raising manoeuvres over 16 days 
• Spacecraft will cover 3.5 lakh km and travel there for five day after trans lunar burns
• Once in the appropriate orbit, the Lander will separate from Orbiter
• Lander will orbit moon for 4 days and reach 100 km X 30 km orbit
• Landing site at about 70 degrees south latitude
• At 30 km orbit, lander will descend on moon which takes around 15 mins
• On landing, lander door will open
• After 4 hrs of landing, rover will come out of lander
• Rover will  move at 1 cm / sec and will cover 500 meters
• Landing will happen either on September 6 or 7 (beginning of a lunar day)
• Life of lander/rover is 14 earth days or 1 lunar day

Source: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-to-be-launched-on-july-15-says-isro-chief/articleshow/69754430.cms


Few images from ISRO's yet to be made public web site
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 15, 2019
Post by: chota on 06/12/2019 12:01 pm
A short video of spacecraft integration @isro 's Satellite Integration and Testing Establishment

https://twitter.com/i/status/1138681127785324544 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1138681127785324544)

https://twitter.com/i/status/1138711149501964289 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1138711149501964289)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 06/12/2019 02:14 pm
And here we have official Chandrayaan-2  website live!!

https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-home (https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-home)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 06/14/2019 05:17 am
This is the press conference from June 13, 2019 for Chandrayaan-2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dHQNkAdZGI
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 06/14/2019 06:41 am
Check out some videos (animations and teasers) here on ISRO website

https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-gallery#void  :)

https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/pl_animation.mp4.webmhd.webm (https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/pl_animation.mp4.webmhd.webm)

https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/pl_video.mp4.webmhd.webm (https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/pl_video.mp4.webmhd.webm)

https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/rakesh_teaser.mp4.mp4 (https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/rakesh_teaser.mp4.mp4)


Also logo of C2 seems to be
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 06/14/2019 06:05 pm
More coverage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fVdRo2dMwQ
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 06/17/2019 12:37 pm
And more coverage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0knAOPYHX08
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Donosauro on 06/17/2019 01:17 pm
If it succeeds, India will be the fourth nation to operate a rover on the moon, but the first nation -- not the fourth -- to land at (near) the lunar south pole.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: TheVarun on 06/17/2019 02:19 pm
  One hopes( as do most of us here) that the mission is a complete success, and there's a strong likelihood that it will be.

 If there's a glitch or failure, it's most likely going to occur in the release of the rover, and the rover's movement on the moon's surface.  The orbiting satellite has the greatest probability of success, and the release of the lander also very likely to take place, with the payloads operating for their given time.

Question- what if the satellite, which is pretty large at 2.38 tonnes is successfully released and orbits for one year, but the rover does not work as planned. Would ISRO and everyone else consider that a failure or success. The mission should then  at least be called a partial success, with a real accent on the positive side, given the size and complexity of Chandrayaan-2 relative to its predecessor.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 06/17/2019 03:52 pm
In my opinion, if something goes wrong it will be during the descent and landing procedure to the lunar surface by the lander. This is what Dr Sivan is referring to as the "terrifying 15 minutes" (analogous to NASA Curiosity's "7 minutes of terror" during its Mars EDL). This will be the first time ISRO has attempted this kind of maneuver, so it's going to have to face the unknown here.

On the bright side, once this maneuver gets successfully accomplished (whether on this mission or a future attempt), then ISRO will gain knowledge and confidence on how to land on the Moon.

The rover is only able to move at ~1 cm/s, which sounds barely above NASA Mars Sojourner speed. So it's going to be just crawling along. Getting down that ramp will be the main risk for it.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Kryten on 06/17/2019 04:26 pm
 Given the size and instrument suite of the rover versus the lander, it seems fair to consider the rover as something of a secondary like the helicopter on Mars 2020.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 15, 2019
Post by: chota on 06/18/2019 11:42 am
Chandrayaan-2 nearly ready for July launch (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-nearly-ready-for-july-launch/articleshow/69724508.cms)

• Spacecraft Integration nearly complete
• Final tests are on at Mahendragiri and Byalalu
• Spacecraft will leave Bengaluru on June 19
• Might reach the launchpad in Sriharikota on June 20 or 21
• Planned launch date July 9

• Spacecraft Integration nearly complete           -  ✓
• Spacecraft will leave Bengaluru on June 19     -  ✓

https://twitter.com/isro/status/1140918123823919104 (https://twitter.com/isro/status/1140918123823919104)


Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanjaykumar on 06/18/2019 10:53 pm
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/18-jun-2019/chandrayaan2-pole-to-pole (https://www.isro.gov.in/update/18-jun-2019/chandrayaan2-pole-to-pole)

Chandrayaan2 - From Pole to Pole
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 06/19/2019 02:52 am
Didn't Chandrayaan-1's Moon Impactor Probe also hit the Shackleton crater near the South pole region? How far from there will Chandrayaan-2's lander touch down?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Phil Stooke on 06/19/2019 04:10 am
The exact location of the MIP impact is not certain, but it was within about 30 km of the south pole.  Despite a lot of misleading headlines, Chandrayaan 2 will not land at the south pole.  Its landing site is at c. 70 degrees south, 600 k from the south pole.  So they are a long way apart.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ravi_ram on 06/19/2019 02:31 pm
MIP landing location [89oS 30oW] is explained on this following article.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110110072757/http://www.flonnet.com/fl2720/stories/20101008272009000.htm
"
The separation occurred when the MIP was at 13.3 oS 14oE in the 98-km-high orbit. Following an oblique flight track lasting 24 minutes, the MIP impacted to self-destruction at a designated point very close to the south pole at 89oS 30oW.
"
Chandrayaan-2 landing location is 70.9 S, 22.7 E

So the distance between them calculated based on https://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/tools/lunardistancecalc/
=549.1114447900895 Km
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Phil Stooke on 06/19/2019 04:07 pm
That is one of the suggested locations.  Note it is in whole number degrees and so not very precise.  But you might also want to see this report from ISRO to the UN:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190328215138/http://www.unoosa.org/documents/pdf/ser570E.pdf

------------------
Basic coordinates of landing point on Moon:
Latitude: 89.76 degrees South
Longitude: 39.40  degrees West 
Name of landing point as accepted by the International Astronomical Union: Jawahar Sthal
--------------------
 The name, 'Jawahar Point' in English, commemorates Jawaharlal Nehru, but this report is not correct when it states that the IAU has approved that name. 

The 89 S, 30 W location is found by extrapolating the MIP descent track, but it's not very precise.  My effort to do the same puts the site closer to the 0 meridian at that latitude.  So as I said, the exact location is not known very precisely. 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: plutogno on 06/19/2019 07:36 pm
So as I said, the exact location is not known very precisely. 


and still, the distance in the post above is given to 10^-10 meters! ;)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 06/26/2019 03:14 pm
* All 3 modules are at SDSC SHAR
* Orbitor fuel loading completed
* Lander fuel loading in progress
* By June 28/29 Lander and rover to be integrated
* By June 30 integrated unit will be moved to VAB for integration with GSLV

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/chandrayaan-2-lander-rover-orbiter-integration-by-june-28/articleshow/69961500.cms?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=TOIMobile

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: TheVarun on 06/28/2019 02:38 pm
 Something about batteries...

 https://www.isro.gov.in/update/28-jun-2019/gslv-mkiii-m1-chandrayaan-2-assembly-of-batteries-all-stages-of-launch-vehicle
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 06/29/2019 03:44 am
Here's the full message.

"Jun 28, 2019
GSLV MkIII-M1/Chandrayaan 2: Assembly of the batteries for all stages of launch vehicle completed"
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 06/29/2019 06:45 am
Dr Annadurai, now retired from ISRO, mentions a solar wakeup circuit which will be used to attempt to revive the rover (and lander?) after the lunar night ends:

https://indianexpress.com/article/india/dr-m-annadurai-project-director-chandrayaan-1-chandrayaan-2-isro-moon-5805873/

Quote
The life of the rover is only one lunar day (14 earth days) but we have made some things that can help it survive longer. It is called a sleep and wake up solar-powered circuit which will help it revive after a long night once the sun comes out and it will be used to heat the system. If it works, we may get a bonus of couple more lunar days. In the case of the orbiter, we are talking of a life of six months to a year. I am hopeful it will live for a long time given the Mangalyaan experience which is living beyond its expected life span.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ravi_ram on 06/29/2019 09:12 am
He is talking about one of the features published on the paper titled
[Design Framework Of A Configurable Electrical Power System For Lunar Rover ]
https://archive.org/details/designframeworkofaconfigurableelectricalpowersystemforlunarrover

Check out page 6 for the Logic flow diagram of sleep & wake-up function


Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Vikranth on 06/30/2019 03:31 am
The Lander Vikram with Rover Pragyaan has been integrated with Orbiter.To be integrated with the launch vehicle in couple of days.
Source:Eenadu
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/02/2019 11:47 am
Here are the latest updates on C2 from ISRO's chandrayaan2 page

https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-latest-updates


Latest Update: Chandrayaan -2 getting ready for integration with GSLV launcher.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/02/2019 01:26 pm
The Lander Vikram with Rover Pragyaan has been integrated with Orbiter.To be integrated with the launch vehicle in couple of days.
Source:Eenadu

It seems the orbiter+lander combination is mated to the top partition of the PSLV dual launch adapter   
http://spaceflight101.com/pslv-c35/wp-content/uploads/sites/112/2016/09/pslvc35-ps4.jpg
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ravi_ram on 07/02/2019 02:24 pm
Quote

It seems the orbiter+lander combination is mated to the top partition of the PSLV dual launch adapter   
http://spaceflight101.com/pslv-c35/wp-content/uploads/sites/112/2016/09/pslvc35-ps4.jpg

Image says "pslvc35-ps4.jpg"...  It was launched on 2016 right?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/02/2019 03:19 pm
Quote

It seems the orbiter+lander combination is mated to the top partition of the PSLV dual launch adapter   
http://spaceflight101.com/pslv-c35/wp-content/uploads/sites/112/2016/09/pslvc35-ps4.jpg

Image says "pslvc35-ps4.jpg"...  It was launched on 2016 right?
Of course, what I meant is that the adapter on which the spacecraft is mated appears similar to that of PSLV as shown in photo
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: tappa on 07/04/2019 10:35 am
Is anybody from here going for the launch? I registered & will be going to Sriharikota for the launch. If anyone is going, & would like to connect, please PM me.

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: TheVarun on 07/04/2019 03:19 pm
"In my opinion, if something goes wrong it will be during the descent and landing procedure to the lunar surface by the lander."

  Was there a physical test of the lander conducted?  There was electronic simulation.

  I'm even a bit anxious about the mass/weight of the payload :-\  At 3.8 tonnes, that's the heaviest object lofted into space by an Indian vehicle, 400kg heavier than the GSAT-29.   Though I know that the GSLV Mark 3 has been built for margins up to 4 tonnes :). ISRO deserves to be saluted for its bold and brilliant venture.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ravi_ram on 07/04/2019 03:44 pm
"In my opinion, if something goes wrong it will be during the descent and landing procedure to the lunar surface by the lander."

  Was there a physical test of the lander conducted?  There was electronic simulation.

  I'm even a bit anxious about the mass/weight of the payload :-\  At 3.8 tonnes, that's the heaviest object lofted into space by an Indian vehicle, 400kg heavier than the GSAT-29.   Though I know that the GSLV Mark 3 has been built for margins up to 4 tonnes :). ISRO deserves to be saluted for its bold and brilliant venture.

They kind of did that while back as explained in 
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/26-oct-2018/chandrayaan-2-lander-actuator-performance-test-lapt-phase-2

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: TheVarun on 07/04/2019 03:54 pm
Thanks!  From the description, it sounds like it was released from a crane(?!) from what height is not clear.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Comet on 07/04/2019 07:54 pm
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Comet on 07/04/2019 08:14 pm
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanjaykumar on 07/06/2019 02:00 am
Nice representation.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ62htM7YoA
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanjaykumar on 07/08/2019 09:17 am

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/07-jul-2019/gslv-mkiii-m1-chandrayaan-2-update

GSLV MkIII-M1/Chandrayaan-2 update
1. GSLV MkIII-M1 moved to launch pad.
2. Spacecraft is powered and health check in progress.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/08/2019 04:54 pm
July 8, 2019

Full Dress Rehearsal-1 (FDR-1) in progress.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Sridhar on 07/08/2019 05:41 pm
My "what to expect" blog article on the Chandrayaan-2 at the Planetary Society.  Written a few days ago but published today.

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/2019/chandrayaan-2-what-to-expect.html

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/08/2019 06:46 pm
Here are some details about the landing operation

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-7VGgJUYAAUiNP.jpg (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-7VGgJUYAAUiNP.jpg)

Credit : https://twitter.com/utejonmayamTOI (https://twitter.com/utejonmayamTOI)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/09/2019 08:05 am
Not sure if it is posted earlier. Here is an article in Frontline

https://frontline.thehindu.com/science-and-technology/article28261474.ece (https://frontline.thehindu.com/science-and-technology/article28261474.ece)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/09/2019 04:38 pm
July 9, 2019

Routing and termination of pyros, pressure sensors, Umbilical Connection Unit(UCU) separation connector cables end to end checks completed

https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-latest-updates (https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-latest-updates)

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Shams on 07/09/2019 04:40 pm
New images of chandrayan 2 releasedo by ISRO

https://m.businesstoday.in/video/new-images-of-chandrayaan-2-released-by-isro-a-week-from-launch/1/362991.html
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Shams on 07/10/2019 04:19 am
https://m.sakshi.com/news/andhra-pradesh/isros-aambitious-launch-chandrayaan-2-arrangements-underway-1205421
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/10/2019 06:37 am
Looks like lots of VIPs have shown interest to watch the launch live from SHAR launching site

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/president-kovind-to-witness-chandrayaan-2-launch-reports/articleshow/70151351.cms
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/10/2019 01:20 pm
Chandrayaan Image gallery updated with new pictures

https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-gallery


Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: K210 on 07/10/2019 05:17 pm
Beautiful rocket!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/10/2019 06:49 pm
And some videos here by ISRO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdX19GwxCIo&t=3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdX19GwxCIo&t=3s)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nKtaPsqi-o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nKtaPsqi-o)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_lZJWoBxUc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_lZJWoBxUc)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanjaykumar on 07/12/2019 04:09 am
Teaser video


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nw9PoQQDaoo
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanjaykumar on 07/12/2019 04:16 am
Traditions @ ISRO
Ahead of Chandrayaan 2 launch, ISRO chairman K. Sivan offers special prayers at Udupi Krishna mutt
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ahead-of-chandrayaan-2-launch-isro-chairman-k-sivan-offers-special-prayers-at-udupi-krishna-mutt/article28311765.ece
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: tappa on 07/12/2019 11:40 am
Folks,
I have tickets for the launch & I cant find any instructions on ISRO website except a route map to Visitor Launch Gallery. I have some questions would appreciate some inputs.

Since the launch is at 2.51am local time, when should I reach the venue? & when can I expect to leave, have to get back to work on Monday so would help me plan.  If anyone has any inputs would appreciate it.

If there are any last minute changes to launch what can I track to get latest information? NSF Live blog is one place, anything else?

Does the launch gallery have a TV with live streaming etc?

Thanks,
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Satori on 07/12/2019 12:28 pm
Chandrayaan Image gallery updated with new pictures

https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-gallery


NO embebed photos, please. Can you please attach them to your post?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/12/2019 12:42 pm
Chandrayaan Image gallery updated with new pictures

https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-gallery


NO embebed photos, please. Can you please attach them to your post?

Done
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Star One on 07/12/2019 01:22 pm
What to Expect from India’s Second Moon Mission (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-to-expect-from-indias-second-moon-mission/)

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: tehwkd on 07/12/2019 03:05 pm
📡:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtASNGj4Lao

ℹ:https://www.isro.gov.in/gslv-mk-iii-m1-chandrayaan-2-mission/launch-kit-glance
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 07/13/2019 06:23 am
Chandrayaan 2: Giant leap for ISRO (http://"https://frontline.thehindu.com/science-and-technology/article28261474.ece")
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/13/2019 06:34 am
Press kit attached.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/13/2019 06:40 am
Chandrayaan 2: Giant leap for ISRO (http://"https://frontline.thehindu.com/science-and-technology/article28261474.ece")

I've added US$ conversions.

"The cost of the entire mission is about Rs.1,000 crore ($146M). This includes Rs.603 crore ($88M) for building the composite module and the payment to agencies abroad for providing tracking and navigation support to ISRO. The cost of building the GSLV-Mk III is around Rs.375 crore ($55M)."
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: tehwkd on 07/13/2019 09:27 am
2nd webcast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USpCu-Z1usk
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 07/13/2019 11:49 am
Interview with ISRO Chairman Dr K Sivan by Pallav Bagla:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUNwztkLysg

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/13/2019 02:08 pm
Curtain Raiser Video by ISRO

https://www.isro.gov.in/gslv-mk-iii-m1-chandrayaan-2-mission/curtain-raiser-video-english (https://www.isro.gov.in/gslv-mk-iii-m1-chandrayaan-2-mission/curtain-raiser-video-english)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 07/13/2019 04:11 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhRRYD-YJUA
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 07/13/2019 05:26 pm
Do we know if there is a to-the-second time for the this launch?  Or is it 21:21:00 UTC?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 07/13/2019 05:30 pm
Do we know if there is a to-the-second time for the this launch?  Or is it 21:21:00 UTC?

That's about as accurate as I've read anywhere.

Meanwhile, more coverage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdJ3czwGHkQ
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: K210 on 07/14/2019 12:11 am
Launch Kit screenshots + PDF attached

It's a shame they no longer do the standard launch brochures anymore.

Source: https://www.isro.gov.in/gslv-mk-iii-m1-chandrayaan-2-mission/launch-kit-glance

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: K210 on 07/14/2019 12:18 am
The rest of my attachments from the previous post got cut off somehow. I have attached the remaining attachments below.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ZachS09 on 07/14/2019 12:29 am
I think the launch kit technically constitutes as a mission brochure.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: K210 on 07/14/2019 12:43 am
I think the launch kit technically constitutes as a mission brochure.

No there is a difference. The launch kit is typically for internal ISRO employees/technical staff whereas the brochure is for general public. The launch kit is done well this time around but normally it is not so user friendly as it is not meant for general public.

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: K210 on 07/14/2019 12:44 am
Curtain raiser video is up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB5DeGY-DCk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB5DeGY-DCk)

Source: https://www.isro.gov.in/gslv-mk-iii-m1-chandrayaan-2-mission/curtain-raiser-video-english
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 07/14/2019 03:08 am
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1150239637450788864 (https://twitter.com/isro/status/1150239637450788864)
Quote
🇮🇳#ISROMissions🇮🇳
The launch countdown of #GSLVMkIII-M1/#Chandrayaan-2 commenced today at  0651 Hrs IST. The launch is scheduled at 0251Hrs IST on July 15th.
More updates to follow...
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/14/2019 03:32 am
Here are the tread marks that Pragyan will leave on the surface. The ISRO logo and the State Emblem of India.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Emblem_of_India
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Arb on 07/14/2019 09:54 am
RT's take: 'Where nobody’s ever gone’: India’s mission to unexplored regions of the Moon starts in a few hours (https://www.rt.com/news/464120-india-moon-landing-mission/)

Surprisingly comprehensive.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 07/14/2019 10:27 am
This is a pre-launch planning trajectory created 2019-July-3. It begins
  in the elliptical Earth parking orbit, 19 minutes after launch:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lI86mRxYFkI/XSsApwWZ2GI/AAAAAAAAy4Q/c3N4-0RY-xwO2QzKdCRWGpFso5KqTshqgCLcBGAs/s1600/Chandayaan2.png)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-T0KJ69atYtM/XSr5y_31ZII/AAAAAAAAy38/MekRC0eu8A4ReeCVkfRMQTKyKZUnILbaACLcBGAs/s1600/Chandayaan2_1text.png)

  Trajectory name                             
  ---------------------------------------   
  ch2l_spk_190714-191231_planning_v2.V0.1

source:
https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi#top
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: tehwkd on 07/14/2019 10:46 am
https://twitter.com/LaunchStuff/status/1150354974309789697
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/14/2019 11:44 am
Behind the scene rocket and spacecraft integration videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGaxR9yrUQY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGaxR9yrUQY)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/14/2019 12:07 pm
One more

https://www.isro.gov.in/gslv-mk-iii-m1-chandrayaan-2-mission/chandrayaan-2-video][url]https://www.isro.gov.in/gslv-mk-iii-m1-chandrayaan-2-mission/chandrayaan-2-video (http://[url)[/url]
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: abhishek on 07/14/2019 01:12 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhWK_pZrXl4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhWK_pZrXl4)


Comprehensive video on Chandrayaan-2 by SEEKER
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: tehwkd on 07/14/2019 04:16 pm
📡:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-hFpJscHCI

📡:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f_HxuVHfrw


Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/14/2019 04:25 pm
FEATURE ARTICLE: India to the Moon! ISRO set to launch nation’s first lunar landing mission -

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2019/07/india-moon-isro-launch-nations-first-lunar-landing-mission/

- By Chris Gebhardt:

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1150440901124284416
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 07/14/2019 08:15 pm
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1150496319212941312
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 07/14/2019 08:32 pm
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1150502744953745408
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 07/14/2019 08:50 pm
Nothing confirmed but looks like ISRO might be standing down launch operations today.

https://twitter.com/nascom1/status/1150506966751440896

https://twitter.com/Chethan_Dash/status/1150506481181065216
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: whiztech on 07/14/2019 08:52 pm
https://youtu.be/Vu7iV-OaWF4
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 07/14/2019 08:57 pm
Webcast should be starting in 3mins.  Should get some clarity then.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 07/14/2019 08:59 pm
Scrub appears confirmed.  Numerous news outlets now reporting.  Official statement from ISRO forthcoming.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: whiztech on 07/14/2019 09:00 pm
https://youtu.be/arhjhHeuRUc
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 07/14/2019 09:01 pm
https://twitter.com/ChethanKumarTOI/status/1150509908594327553
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/14/2019 09:01 pm
Clock stopped at T-56:24. Tomorrow is a backup day.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/14/2019 09:04 pm
https://twitter.com/mohitinmedia/status/1150510699660992513

Quote
Chandrayaan-2 launch called off due to technical problems in fuel conductor. The mission was put on hold with just 56 minutes and 24 seconds to go.

(unofficial)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 07/14/2019 09:04 pm
Clock stopped at T-56:24. Tomorrow is a backup day.

Of note, lots are saying that ISRO will announce the next opportunity and details of what went wrong today at a later time.  No one is yet saying that launch will be targeted for tomorrow.  Take "tomorrow is a backup day" with caution right now until ISRO can issue a statement.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/14/2019 09:05 pm
PTI (Press Trust of India) saying launch is scrubbed due to a technical issue.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/14/2019 09:06 pm
https://twitter.com/vermarajan/status/1150509731729104897

https://twitter.com/vermarajan/status/1150511296015679488
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/14/2019 09:08 pm
Closeup of the clock. Talking about why the new GLSV Mk.III is used.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 07/14/2019 09:09 pm
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1150512237045379072
Quote
A technical snag was observed in launch vehicle system at T-56 minute. As a measure of abundant precaution, #Chandrayaan2 launch has been called off for today. Revised launch date will be announced later.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/14/2019 09:09 pm
Official confirmation:

https://twitter.com/isro/status/1150512237045379072
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/14/2019 09:09 pm
Official ISRO announcement soon.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 07/14/2019 09:09 pm
And there you have it, no official reschedule to the launch at this time.

https://twitter.com/isro/status/1150512237045379072
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/14/2019 09:11 pm
ISRO announcing "technical snag". Basically, reading out the tweet.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/14/2019 09:14 pm
20 day window for launch. Window is 16 minutes tomorrow.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 07/14/2019 09:24 pm
20 day window for launch. Window is 16 minutes tomorrow.

Since ISRO did not broadcast this on their live stream, can you clarify for everyone?  Does the launch window tomorrow open 16 minutes earlier than today?  Is it the same time (21:21 UTC) and 16mins in duration?  Did they confirm that they are targeting tomorrow for launch?


Also, I have people on twitter telling me that tomorrow is the last day of the launch window, but you're saying ISRO said there are 20 more days in the window?
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: K210 on 07/14/2019 09:27 pm
20 day window for launch. Window is 16 minutes tomorrow.

Since ISRO did not broadcast this on their live stream, can you clarify for everyone?  Does the launch window tomorrow open 16 minutes earlier than today?  Is it the same time (21:21 UTC) and 16mins in duration?  Did they confirm that they are targeting tomorrow for launch?

Date for next launch attempt has not been announced yet.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/14/2019 09:31 pm
20 day window for launch. Window is 16 minutes tomorrow.

Since ISRO did not broadcast this on their live stream, can you clarify for everyone?

This information came from one of the speakers in the NDTV broadcast.

Quote
Does the launch window tomorrow open 16 minutes earlier than today?

I don't believe so. They did mention when the window opens, but I didn't get that information down. As its a 24/7 channel, I can't go back to rehear it.

Quote
Is it the same time (21:21 UTC) and 16mins in duration?

I don't think its the same time. The window duration is 16 minutes.

Quote
Did they confirm that they are targeting tomorrow for launch?

No. They are waiting for ISRO to announce this.

Quote
Also, I have people on twitter telling me that tomorrow is the last day of the launch window, but you're saying ISRO said there are 20 more days in the window?

Tomorrow is not the last day. The expert from NDTV (Alok Chatterjee, NASA Interface Manager) said the window is 20 days.

This reporter saying that the window for tomorrow is 16 minutes. After that, the window is only 1 minute long. He is reporting that information from a previous press conference.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 07/14/2019 09:36 pm
20 day window for launch. Window is 16 minutes tomorrow.

Since ISRO did not broadcast this on their live stream, can you clarify for everyone?

This information came from one of the speakers in the NDTV broadcast.

Quote
Does the launch window tomorrow open 16 minutes earlier than today?

I don't believe so. They did mention when the window opens, but I didn't get that information down. As its a 24/7 channel, I can't go back to rehear it.

Quote
Is it the same time (21:21 UTC) and 16mins in duration?

I don't think its the same time. The window duration is 16 minutes.

Quote
Did they confirm that they are targeting tomorrow for launch?

No. They are waiting for ISRO to announce this.

In the future, we should note where information comes from.  Non-ISRO information is confusing, and I've been told via Twitter that an ISRO release from May says tomorrow is the last day of the window (which only opened on 9 July, so wasn't 20 days in duration).

The press release giving tomorrow as the close of the launch window: https://www.isro.gov.in/update/01-may-2019/press-release-chandrayaan-2
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/14/2019 09:45 pm
Another tweet from ISRO confirming delay.

https://twitter.com/isro/status/1150520298761936896

"ISRO
‏Verified account @isro
5 minutes ago

A technical snag was observed in launch vehicle system at 1 hour before the launch. As a measure of abundant precaution, #Chandrayaan2 launch has been called off for today. Revised launch date will be announced later."
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 07/14/2019 09:55 pm
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1150512237045379072
Quote
A technical snag was observed in launch vehicle system at T-56 minute. As a measure of abundant precaution, #Chandrayaan2 launch has been called off for today. Revised launch date will be announced later.

Note that ISRO has deleted the above tweet and replaced it with:

https://twitter.com/isro/status/1150520298761936896
Quote
A technical snag was observed in launch vehicle system at 1 hour before the launch. As a measure of abundant precaution, #Chandrayaan2 launch has been called off for today. Revised launch date will be announced later.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: K210 on 07/14/2019 10:13 pm
Hope they are able to launch sometime this month. If they are not able to they will have to delay all the way into september as this will be the next avaliable launch window after july.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/14/2019 10:14 pm
OK, I misunderstood what Chatterjee said. In a replay, he was talking about a hypothethical Mars mission with a 20 day window. I misunderstood that as the window for Chandrayaan 2. My apologies.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/14/2019 10:19 pm
https://news24online.com/news/why-chandrayaan-2-launch-was-postponed-get-all-information-here-9e32bbc1

Quote
"The technical snag was noticed during the cryogenic fuel was being loaded. We have to approach the vehicle to assess the problem. First we have to empty the fuel loaded in the rocket, then the rocket will be taken back for further investigation," an ISRO source told IANS.

Quote
"This process will take 10 days after that only we can decide on the launch schedule," the source added.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 07/14/2019 11:44 pm
Can we have some (speculative) discussion of the possible technical issues here?

If hypothetically it was the "fuel conductor" that posed a problem, then what might have happened?
What is a "fuel conductor" in the first place? Is that an ISRO-specific term? What's the general term for that? Is this some intake port where the cryo fuel is loaded into? Or is it some feed line into the cryo engine?
I'm assuming it was related to the ultra-cold LH2 fuel, since that's the most difficult to deal with - but could it have been the LOX?

Could ultra-cold temperature have caused something to clog up or foul up? Was anything being done differently for this launch as compared to the previous 2 development launches?
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/15/2019 01:01 am
What is a "fuel conductor" in the first place?

My guess is that they a referring to a fuel (LH2) pipe. Its anyone's guess what the problem is.
Title: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 07/15/2019 03:17 am
Re-post from up-thread re: current launch window:
Cross-post from the post-successful launch speeches of PSLV C46; confirmation of launch window:
ISRO Chairman and Department of Space Secretary.

Chandrayaan 2 between 9 and 16 July. Landing on Moon on 6 September.

Also here (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1941566#msg1941566), up-thread, with link to the May 1 ISRO press release.

If the launch window above is defined by Indian Standard Time, then a launch tomorrow, at a similar time of day, would be at the end of said launch window--July 16 IST, but still July 15 UTC.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 07/15/2019 03:41 am
Hope they are able to launch sometime this month. If they are not able to they will have to delay all the way into September as this will be the next available launch window after July.
Do we have a source for this?
***

Can we have some (speculative) discussion of the possible technical issues here?
My suggestion as a fellow member: any such pertinent discussion take place in its own discussion thread.  Please don't clog up this launch/update thread.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Phil Stooke on 07/15/2019 03:50 am
This is a launch/update thread?  It started in 2010.  A new launch/update thread might be a good idea, but this isn't it.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: demonslayer on 07/15/2019 03:57 am
https://news24online.com/news/why-chandrayaan-2-launch-was-postponed-get-all-information-here-9e32bbc1

Fuel conductor? If the source is authentic, he would at least use proper terms.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/15/2019 04:54 am
Launch vehicle picture when countdown was stopped. Not sure if there are any visual indications of glitch.

https://twitter.com/ChethanKumarTOI/status/1150504324184719360

Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/15/2019 05:02 am
Few news reports Google-translated from Telugu:

https://www.sakshi.com/news/andhra-pradesh/due-technical-issue-craiozanic-stage-chandrayan-2-stopped-1206804
Quote
The third stage, the most important stage in the rocket, seems to be a technical flaw as the batteries for the cryogenic engine are not charged. The addition of cryogenic gas bottle leakage has also been identified as another technical flaw. ISRO officials have announced that the launch has been postponed. This type of technical error has never been filed in the past. This is why ISRO scientists are criticizing the cause of this error. It is believed that the Chandrayaan-2 experiment is likely to be conducted on September 9.

https://www.ap7am.com/flash-news-656452-telugu.html
Quote
ISRO has also announced that it will refuel with liquid hydrogen an hour before the launch. And in the final minutes, ISRO decided to postpone the experiment, since the computer was showing that there was some vacuum, refueling in the tank, and that the batteries were not fully charged at the same time

 
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/15/2019 05:05 am
Another news report Google-translated from Malayalam:

https://www.deshabhimani.com/news/national/chandrayaan-2-launch-postponed/810923
Quote
The unexpected change was caused by the fuel leak in the launch vehicle GSLV Mark-3. Preliminary information said the leak occurred in the most complex part. The malfunction occurred about half an hour after the liquid hydrogen was filled. Following the discovery of the leak, the mission director proposed postponing the launch.

It looks like LH2 propellant leak.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Zed_Noir on 07/15/2019 05:22 am
What is a "fuel conductor" in the first place?

My guess is that they a referring to a fuel (LH2) pipe. Its anyone's guess what the problem is.

Could also be the fuel line with one of the two hypergolic engines in the core stage. And no, never heard of the term "fuel conductor" before.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/15/2019 09:39 am
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/on-chandrayaan-2-launch-being-called-off-isro-sources-say-problem-in-rocket-extremely-lucky-to-detect-anomaly/story-FPEvhzjjOCpncrgvMO061H.html

Quote
“The rocket functioning was not according to laid down parameters... we are extremely lucky to detect the anomaly just before the launch, we are in control, the rocket and satellite are safe,” the source added, hours after the moon mission was called off.

Quote
A committee of experts will now examine what went wrong and suggest ways to remove the glitches, it will take about a week to determine what exactly went wrong, the source added.

“We will have to dismantle the rocket to get to the root of the problem… we have window till month end to launch the mission,” the source added.

There were four suitable window periods for the launch in the month of July – July 15 and 16 and then again during new moon on July 29 and 30.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: PM3 on 07/15/2019 02:44 pm
New NOTAM out for 17 to 31 July:

Quote
A1550/19 NOTAMN
Q) VOMF/QWMLW/IV/BO/W/000/999/
A) VOMF B) 1907172100 C) 1907311000
D) BTN 2100-2200 ON 17 JUL AND BTN 0830-1000 ON 18-31 JUL
E) GSLV- MKIII- M1 CHANDRAYAAN-2 ROCKET LAUNCH FM SHAR RANGE,
SHRIHARIKOTA WILL TAKE PLACE AS PER FLW DETAILS. THE LAUNCH WILL BE
ON ANY ONE OF THE DAY DRG THIS PERIOD.ACTUAL DATE OF LAUNCH WILL BE
INTIMATED 24 HR IN ADVANCE THROUGH A SEPARATE NOTAM.
              LAUNCH PAD COORDINATES : 134312.00N 0801348.00E
NO FLT IS PERMITTED OVER THE DNG ZONES

DANGER ZONE -1:   IS A CIRCLE OF 10 NAUTICAL MILES AROUND THE LAUNCH
PAD.

DANGER ZONE -2:               
I.        1230N 08240
II.        1315N 08250
III.        1245N 08410
IV.        1200N 08400
   
DANGER ZONE -3
I.        1135N 08500
II.        1225N 08510
III.        1145N 08715
IV.        1055N 08705

DANGER ZONE 4
I.        0810N 09420
II.        0900N 09440E
III.        0825N 09615
IV.        0735N 09555

ROUTES AFFECTED IN CHENNAI FIR :
W20, Q11,V4,V9,Q23,Q24,L510,L645,N571,P761,A465
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/15/2019 06:54 pm
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/key-decision-on-new-chandrayaan-2-launch-date-likely-wednesday/articleshow/70233965.cms

Quote
“If all goes well, we may probably see the launch happen as early as next Monday (July 22),” said a source. However, Isro is yet to officially make a statement.

Quote
Every launch has an optimal window to achieve the desired results. While Monday (July 15) had the longest window of 10 minutes — between 2.51am and 3.01am — Isro will have a window of one minute a day for the rest of the month.

Quote
The present window closes by this month-end, and if Isro misses it, Chandrayaan-2 may have to wait at least till September. Some scientists said it may not happen this year.

Quote
A source from Isro Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (Istrac), said: “The satellite side has done an analysis. According to this, if we miss the July 31 window, there will be an impact on the mission profile.”

Quote
“This will affect operations of payloads. If we miss the deadline, the orbiter’s life may be reduced to six months from the present one year, as it would have used up some of its fuel,” the source said.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: K210 on 07/16/2019 03:57 am
Quote
A leak in the helium bottle of the cryogenic engine of GSLV-MkIII forced the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) to abort the launch of Chandrayaan-2 early on Monday. The launch was called off just 56 minutes before the scheduled lift-off at 2.51am.

Quote
While Isro officially confirmed “a technical snag” in GSLV-MkIII, five sources independently confirmed to TOI that the launch was put off because of a leak in the cryogenic stage. “As a measure of abundant precaution, Chandrayaan-2 launch has been called off for today. Revised launch date will be announced later,” Isro tweeted.

Quote
“After filling liquid oxygen (oxidiser) and liquid hydrogen (fuel), helium was being filled. The procedure is to pressure the helium bottle up to 350 bars and regulate the output to 50 bars. After filling helium, we found the pressure was dropping, indicating there was a leak,” a senior scientist told TOI. “The team is yet to pinpoint the exact spot of the leak in the gas bottle; there could be multiple leaks.”

Quote
Significantly, a leak of the oxygen tank was detected during a ground test of an identical cryogenic engine on June 22, but Isro decided to go ahead with the launch. A senior scientist told TOI that Isro would “come back soon”, indicating the agency is trying to get the rocket off ground before the present launch window ends on July 31. The next best launch window (which ensures full 14 Earth days for the lander and the rover on Moon) comes in September.

From the information avaliable so far it seems the launch was called off due to a drop in pressure in C25 upper stage LOX and helium tanks. If they had gone ahead with the launch the CE-20 would not have been able to provide the required thrust.

Quote
The ₹978-crore Chandrayaan-2 project

I believe this is the first time they have released the final cost of chandraayan-2. It works out to around $200 million. Initial budget was only 425 crore (~$90 million) when it was approved in 2008.

Source: https://m.timesofindia.com/india/chandrayaan-2-launch-put-off-maybe-for-a-few-moons/amp_articleshow/70236163.cms
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/16/2019 05:38 am
Quote
The ₹978-crore Chandrayaan-2 project
I believe this is the first time they have released the final cost of chandraayan-2. It works out to around $200 million. Initial budget was only 425 crore (~$90 million) when it was approved in 2008.

Source: https://m.timesofindia.com/india/chandrayaan-2-launch-put-off-maybe-for-a-few-moons/amp_articleshow/70236163.cms

According to this currency converter, ₹978 crore is US$143M.

https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=9%2C780&From=INR&To=USD
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/16/2019 06:12 am
Quote
In order to maintain the temperature of liquid hydrogen at -253 degree centigrade, the upper stage of the rocket has nine helium tanks maintained at a pressure of around 300 PSI (pound per square inch). Pressure dropped by 10% in one of these tanks. This is not a big problem and ISRO would have gone ahead with the launch for most missions,” one of the persons said. Considering the significance of the moon mission, ISRO did not want to take chances and aborted the launch.

Quote
The agency will drain the fuel — highly pressurised liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen — from the indigenous geo synchronous satellite launch vehicle (GSLV-MkIII) before it carries out a thorough test to identify a possible leak that could have led to the anomaly. 

Quote
The process should take around a week,  We should launch the mission soon

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/pressure-drop-in-rocket-led-isro-to-abort-moon-mission/articleshow/70237544.cms (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/pressure-drop-in-rocket-led-isro-to-abort-moon-mission/articleshow/70237544.cms)
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/16/2019 08:24 am
https://www.sakshi.com/news/national/chandrayaan-2-project-stopped-due-problem-cryogenic-1207053

Google-translated from Telugu:
Quote
The gas bottle (pogo bottle) leakage during the cryogenic phase, which is crucial in the satellite carrier, has effectively stopped the experiment. The gas leaks in the pogo gas bottles, which are very important to cryogenic engines, were stopped before 56.24 minutes, due to the lack of sufficient thrust for the engines.

Quote
Scientists have withdrawn 25 tonnes of liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen fuel during the cryogenic phase overnight. At the bottom, the nitrogen spreaders need to be cleaned thoroughly to remove the adjacent fuel layers. It will take another five days.

Quote
Since the rocket had to be dismantled, the process of withdrawing 110 tonnes of liquid fuel, including cryo fuel, was carried out from Monday morning.

Quote
The launch is likely to be postponed until the end of this year, as the rocket spare parts have to be disassembled and reassembled.
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/16/2019 08:38 am
ISRO seems to have isolated the faulty component as per this report

Quote
ISRO teams have pinpointed the leak in the GSLV-MkIII cryogenic engine to a ‘nipple joint’ of the helium gas bottle that supplies pressure to the fuel and oxidiser

Quote
The good news is that we can fix the leak without dismantling the rocket, since there is an access door to the gas bottle which is atop the oxygen tank


Quote
The bad news is that unless we ascertain the reason for the  leak, there is a probability of the problem recurring

Quote
Not having to dismantle means Chandrayaan-2 may be able to fly before the end of the July launch window, but a final failure analysis will be available only in a day or two

Quote
leak wasn’t serious enough to impair the flight, but Isro decided to apply “abundant caution"

Quote
The rocket could’ve still made it, but we didn’t want to take any chances 


Quote
A veteran of Isro failure analysis said teams would now look at the proximity of the faulty ‘nipple joint’ to the oxidiser tank that stores liquid oxygen at minus 183 degrees Celsius. “If the joint was close to such a low temperature, the reason could be micro shrinkage of the joint. In that case we need to insulate it or shift the joint away from the coldest point,” the scientist said.


 https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-pinpoints-chandrayaan-2-leak-to-nipple-joint-of-cryogenic-engine/articleshow/70241645.cms (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-pinpoints-chandrayaan-2-leak-to-nipple-joint-of-cryogenic-engine/articleshow/70241645.cms)
Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: K210 on 07/16/2019 09:23 am
Do we have a source for this?

Yes.

Quote
While ISRO promised to announce the new launch date soon, it’s worth noting the current launch window expires on July 16 (tomorrow). That’s not a lot of time to fix a major issue with the launch vehicle, and so it’s likely that the Chandrayaan-2 will take off only during September when the next window opens up.

Source: https://thenextweb.com/in/2019/07/15/indias-ambitious-chandrayaan-2-launch-delayed-due-to-technical-snag/

Title: Re: SCRUB: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 14, 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: tehwkd on 07/16/2019 12:32 pm
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 07/16/2019 08:33 pm
A bit of beach art to enjoy in the meantime:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_di2nMU8AA6Juj.jpg)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/17/2019 05:16 am
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/chandrayaan-2-may-get-a-2nd-shot-after-fixing-snag/story-FbmvWNGYspx3Lx92ml0EUN.html

Quote
“The fuel from the launch vehicle has already been emptied out. There was a helium leak from the propellent team. The problem has now been discovered. A nipple joint valve in the plumbing malfunctioned. This can be repaired on the launch pad and there will be no need for disassembling the launch vehicle,” an ex-scientist at the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), who is still involved with the project, said on condition of anonymity.

Quote
“This system performed precisely in the way it was designed to and we managed to save the nearly ₹1,000 crore mission in time. We were lucky that the mission did not enter the automatic launch sequence, else all would have been lost. All things are in our control,” a senior official from Isro said on condition of anonymity after the launch was aborted.

Quote
“Once the valve is fixed, Isro will refuel and check whether there is any leak. If not, the mission can proceed,” said the scientist quoted in the first instance.

Quote
There is a launch window for Chandrayaan-2 during the new moon on July 29 and 30. After that, the next such window will open only in September.

Quote
“If Isro pushes the launch to next month, then the inclination of the orbit will have to be changed, leading to more fuel consumption, reducing the payload capacity of the vehicle,” the scientist said.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/17/2019 06:17 am
Latest challenge for ISRO: Launch Chandrayaan-2 by July 20 to meet crucial mission deadlines (http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2019/jul/17/latest-challenge-for-isro-launch-chandrayaan-2-by-july-20-to-meet-crucial-mission-deadlines-2005013.html)

Quote
Moon mission will have to be launched, latest by July 20, and not later, if the mission has to run successfully without risks of compromise or even failure

Quote
Lunar transfer trajectory (LTT) (the movement of the spacecraft from the Earth’s orbit towards the Moon’s orbit) has to be completed on August 1, which is referred to as T+17, or 17 days after the initially calculated launch at 2.51 am on July 15.

Quote
The scientist said delaying the launch beyond July 20 will mean making a rendezvous with the Moon at a different time and location, which could delay the lander’s separation, besides requiring more fuel. This, in turn, could reduce the life of the orbiter

Quote
He said longer lunar orbital insertion or delays would also prevent the lander from separating. He explained that delays in orbit could affect the orbiter’s pyro-circuit, whose objective is to generate energy to light up the lander’s thrusters to separate from the orbiter and begin its descent towards the lunar surface

Quote
He emphasised the need to launch not later than July 20, or wait and launch the mission in the next launch period
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/17/2019 08:00 am
Some unexpected learning for current issue (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/aborted-chandrayaan-2-may-force-isro-to-tweak-cryogenic-stage/articleshow/70257003.cms)

Quote
“Now we have to seal and insulate the joint from the cold or shift it away. The second option is tough if we were to work on the engine without dismantling the rocket. Now efforts are on to plug the leak without moving the rocket from the launchpad, so we can launch it sometime early next week,” said a source.

Quote
A senior scientist said the Chandrayaan-2 setback has presented some learnings for the indigenous cryogenic engine

Quote
CE-20, which was developed after studying Russian cryogenic engines used rigid joint. Isro adopted the rigid joint concept in several places. The rigid joints have lesser chances of leak, but if there is one, they have to be discarded and made again. ISRO doesn't  have the luxury to discard and use another engine in short notice.

Quote
The Chandrayaan-2 experience may force Isro to make some changes in the cryogenic stage. We may not entirely drop rigid joints, but now we may think of having some add-ons like an ‘S’ loop or a ‘U’ loop that can help deal with such anomalies. This latest setback has been an unexpected learning curve
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/17/2019 09:27 am
Isro looking at July 21-22 for Chandrayaan-2 re-launch (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-looking-at-july-21-22-for-chandrayaan-2-re-launch/articleshow/70258753.cms)

Please note that ISRO has not confirmed yet
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - NET July 2019 (2121 UTC)
Post by: PM3 on 07/18/2019 05:54 am
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1151727440667893760

Quote
Chandrayaan-2 launch, which was called off due to a technical snag on July 15, 2019, is now rescheduled at 2:43 pm IST on Monday, July 22, 2019.

This is 9:13 UTC on Monday.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: tehwkd on 07/18/2019 11:41 am
Fresh navigational warning and notam, drop zones same as before

Quote
InForce
O 181019Z JUL 19

HYDROPAC 2326/19(63).
BAY OF BENGAL.
DNC 03.
1. HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS, ROCKET LAUNCHING
220830Z TO 221000Z JUL:
A. AREA WITHIN TEN MILES OF 13-43.2N 080-13.8E.
B. AREA BOUND BY
12-30N 082-40E, 13-15N 082-50E,12-45N 084-10E, 12-00N 084-00E.
C. AREA BOUND BY
11-35N 085-00E, 12-25N 085-10E,11-45N 087-15E, 10-55N 087-05E.
D. AREA BOUND BY
08-10N 094-20E, 09-00N 094-40E,08-25N 096-15E, 07-35N 095-55E.
2. CANCEL THIS MSG 221100Z JUL 19.//

GENERAL.//


Quote
A1582/19 - GSLV- MKIII- M1 CHANDRAYAAN-2 ROCKET LAUNCH FM SHAR RANGE, SHRIHARIKOTA
WILL TAKE PLACE AS PER FLW DETAILS. THE LAUNCH WILL BE ON ANY ONE OF THE
DAY DRG THIS PERIOD.ACTUAL DATE OF LAUNCH WILL BE INTIMATED 24 HR IN
ADVANCE THROUGH A SEPARATE NOTAM. LAUNCH PAD COORDINATES : 134312.00N
0801348.00E NO FLT IS PERMITTED OVER THE DNG ZONES DANGER ZONE -1: IS A
CIRCLE OF 10 NAUTICAL MILES AROUND THE LAUNCH PAD. DANGER ZONE -2: I. 1230N
08240E II. 1315N 08250E III.1245N 08410E IV. 1200N 08400E DANGER ZONE -3 I.
1135N 08500E II. 1225N 08510E III.1145N 08715E IV. 1055N 08705E DANGER ZONE
4 I. 0810N 09420E II. 0900N 09440E III.0825N 09615E IV. 0735N 09555E END
PART 1 OF 3. BTN 0830-1000 ON 22-31 JUL, 22 JUL 08:30 2019 UNTIL 31 JUL
10:00 2019. CREATED: 18 JUL 11:10 2019
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: chota on 07/18/2019 12:29 pm
Quote
The problem was resolved without changing any component - just "tightening it worked". (https://www.ndtv.com/blog/aborting-chandrayaan-2-better-than-showing-fireworks-to-president-2071657)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 07/18/2019 04:56 pm
Quote
The problem was resolved without changing any component - just "tightening it worked". (https://www.ndtv.com/blog/aborting-chandrayaan-2-better-than-showing-fireworks-to-president-2071657)

Not sure, what this means. If this was a QC issue, I guess at the very least, all such joints need to be checked.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/19/2019 08:32 am
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-landing-likely-on-september-6-7-launch-on-july-22/articleshow/70283493.cms

Quote
BENGALURU: Notwithstanding the last-minute scrubbing of Chandrayaan-2 launch on July 15, Isro may still be able to soft-land Vikram (lander) on the same day as it had initially planned —September 6-7.
“There may be a slight change in strategy, but it won’t affect the actual day of landing,” a senior scientist associated with the mission told TOI on Thursday.


Quote
The agency will be able to achieve the landing on September 6-7 as its initial plan included a “buffer” time around Moon for two reasons: First, to give itself a second chance in case of hiccups that pushed the launch from July 15.

Quote
“Now, nothing in the initial approach is changing. We’ll still take 22 days to insert Chandrayaan-2 into the lunar orbit because we need 17 days around Earth for five orbit raising manoeuvres, and then five days for the lunarcraft to travel close to Moon,” a senior scientist explained.
Also, the number of days Vikram needs to go around Moon in a 30kmX100km orbit before initiating deboosting procedures for landing will also be the same as planned initially—four days.
The only thing that will change is the number of days the spacecraft goes around Moon before lander separation. According to initial plans, the spacecraft was to go around in a 100kmX100km orbit for 28 days before separation, and now it will go around for 21 days.

Quote
“Technically, the separation could have happened even after just one day of lunar insertion. The reason the orbiter had 28 days as per the first plan was because the July 15 window meant we reached there much earlier than the most suited day for landing (September 6-7), which gives us 14 full days (1 lunar day) on Moon,” the scientist explained.

Quote
“Now, we will reach Moon about seven days later than the initial plan, but still in 22 days from launch. And yet, we have enough time left for landing on the same date,” the scientist added.
So, the total number of days of the mission will be reduced from 54 days to 47 days.

Quote
A shorter launch window on July 22—Isro chairman K Sivan had on June 12 said that all days of July after the 15th will only have one minute—another senior scientist said, won’t be a “problem”.
“You don’t need to worry about the length of the launch window. Look at the last 20 missions and you’ll know that we’ve launched on the dot. So the length of the window shouldn’t be a concern even now,” a scientist said.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/21/2019 05:01 am
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1152632797556723712
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/21/2019 05:06 am
Comparison of previous and current flight plan.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: sanman on 07/21/2019 01:38 pm
Comparison of previous and current flight plan.

But will these changes result in any increased propellant consumption, and a consequent reduction in the orbiter's effective lifespan?

Chandrayaan-1 did not completely map the lunar surface in its entirety, due to its premature failure. I'm hoping that Chandrayaan-2 will be able to completely map the lunar surface without falling short of that goal.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 07/21/2019 02:06 pm
Countdown has begun.

https://twitter.com/isro/status/1152938409469497346
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 07/21/2019 04:31 pm
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1152955539896168448 (https://twitter.com/isro/status/1152955539896168448)
Quote
UH25 (fuel) filling of liquid core stage (L110) of #GSLVMkIII-M1 commenced.
#Chandrayaan2 #ISRO
Stay tuned for more updates....
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 07/21/2019 04:41 pm
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1152980944577425414 (https://twitter.com/isro/status/1152980944577425414)
Quote
#Chandrayaan2 #ISRO
UH25 (fuel) filling of liquid core stage (L110) of #GSLVMkIII-M1 completed
Updates to continue...
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Eru Iluvatar on 07/21/2019 06:51 pm

If the launch 🚀 goes successfully today, important dates in the sequence post launch:
PeriodDate (IST)Phase
Day 23Aug 13Trans Lunar Injection (TLI)
Day 23-30 Aug 13-20Lunar Transfer Trajectory (LTT)
Day 30Aug 20Lunar Orbit Insertion (LOI)
Day 30-42Aug 20-Sep 1Lunar Bound Phase (LBN)
Day 43Sep 2Lander-Orbiter Separation
Day 44Sep 3Deboosting
Day 48Sep 7Powered Descent and Landing
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 07/21/2019 10:23 pm
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1153030680072187904 (https://twitter.com/isro/status/1153030680072187904)
Quote
Filling of N204 for the liquid core stage (L110) of #GSLVMkIII-M1 commenced
#Chandrayaan2 #ISRO
 Updates will continue.....
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 07/22/2019 02:09 am
ISRO launch webcast on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QvVCV1Ve5U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QvVCV1Ve5U)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Yeknom-Ecaps on 07/22/2019 02:23 am
Does NASA's Deep Space Network participate in this mission in a supporting role?

I know they participate in JAXA Hayabusa2 mission even though JAXA has deep space stations. The DSN also supports ESA  even though it also has deep space stations.

Have never seen info one way or the other for Indian missions.

Thanks
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 07/22/2019 02:35 am
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1153128666907332609 (https://twitter.com/isro/status/1153128666907332609)
Quote
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1153128666907332609
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: AJA on 07/22/2019 02:40 am
Does NASA's Deep Space Network participate in this mission in a supporting role?

I know they participate in JAXA Hayabusa2 mission even though JAXA has deep space stations. The DSN also supports ESA  even though it also has deep space stations.

Have never seen info one way or the other for Indian missions.

Thanks

Yes they do. See https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965660#msg1965660
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 07/22/2019 02:45 am
Does NASA's Deep Space Network participate in this mission in a supporting role?

I know they participate in JAXA Hayabusa2 mission even though JAXA has deep space stations. The DSN also supports ESA  even though it also has deep space stations.

Have never seen info one way or the other for Indian missions.

Thanks

Yes they do. See https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965660#msg1965660

The referenced post only says "DSN".  The Launch Kit makes no reference to NASA's DSN.  It does reference India's DSN, as in this quote:
Quote
At the time of launch, the Chandrayaan 2
Orbiter will be capable of communicating
with the Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN) at
Byalalu, as well as with the Vikram lander.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: AJA on 07/22/2019 03:02 am
Does NASA's Deep Space Network participate in this mission in a supporting role?

I know they participate in JAXA Hayabusa2 mission even though JAXA has deep space stations. The DSN also supports ESA  even though it also has deep space stations.

Have never seen info one way or the other for Indian missions.

Thanks

Yes they do. See https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965660#msg1965660

The referenced post only says "DSN".  The Launch Kit makes no reference to NASA's DSN.  It does reference India's DSN, as in this quote:
Quote
At the time of launch, the Chandrayaan 2
Orbiter will be capable of communicating
with the Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN) at
Byalalu, as well as with the Vikram lander.

As the post you yourself quote mentions, the Indian DSN is abbreviated as IDSN. NASA's DSN is the "DSN" in the post.

Closer to launch time, you will also be able to load up 'DSN Now' - https://eyes.nasa.gov/dsn/dsn.html and see it tracking  Chandrayaan-2
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 07/22/2019 03:26 am
Does NASA's Deep Space Network participate in this mission in a supporting role?

I know they participate in JAXA Hayabusa2 mission even though JAXA has deep space stations. The DSN also supports ESA  even though it also has deep space stations.

Have never seen info one way or the other for Indian missions.

Thanks

Yes they do. See https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965660#msg1965660

The referenced post only says "DSN".  The Launch Kit makes no reference to NASA's DSN.  It does reference India's DSN, as in this quote:
Quote
At the time of launch, the Chandrayaan 2
Orbiter will be capable of communicating
with the Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN) at
Byalalu, as well as with the Vikram lander.

As the post you yourself quote mentions, the Indian DSN is abbreviated as IDSN. NASA's DSN is the "DSN" in the post.

Closer to launch time, you will also be able to load up 'DSN Now' - https://eyes.nasa.gov/dsn/dsn.html and see it tracking  Chandrayaan-2

Thanks for the information.  I wonder why the Launch Kit didn't also mention NASA's DSN.

Unfortunately as it gets closer to launch time I won't be loading up anything except my bed.  I'm in the US Pacific time zone so the current launch schedule is better for the people in India, but it's in the middle of the night for me.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Yeknom-Ecaps on 07/22/2019 03:27 am
Does NASA's Deep Space Network participate in this mission in a supporting role?

I know they participate in JAXA Hayabusa2 mission even though JAXA has deep space stations. The DSN also supports ESA  even though it also has deep space stations.

Have never seen info one way or the other for Indian missions.

Thanks

Yes they do. See https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965660#msg1965660

The referenced post only says "DSN".  The Launch Kit makes no reference to NASA's DSN.  It does reference India's DSN, as in this quote:
Quote
At the time of launch, the Chandrayaan 2
Orbiter will be capable of communicating
with the Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN) at
Byalalu, as well as with the Vikram lander.

As the post you yourself quote mentions, the Indian DSN is abbreviated as IDSN. NASA's DSN is the "DSN" in the post.

Closer to launch time, you will also be able to load up 'DSN Now' - https://eyes.nasa.gov/dsn/dsn.html and see it tracking  Chandrayaan-2

Thanks for the replies - was asking in general for the whole mission does NASA DSN play a supporting role while - for example - Chandrayaan 2 is on the moon.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: AJA on 07/22/2019 03:40 am
Thanks for the replies - was asking in general for the whole mission does NASA DSN play a supporting role while - for example - Chandrayaan 2 is on the moon.

I'm guessing they will.

Then again, support during launch maybe to ensure that they have TM&TC for any critical phases in the flight, during which Indian groundstations may not have line of sight coverage of the orbiter/lander/rover stack.

The timelines will probably be a bit more flexible/relaxed once the lander is on the surface, but then whether or not they decide to use the DSN (I don't know if ISRO has a commercial arrangement, or NASA agreed to provide some DSN coverage, as part of their in-kind participation, a la the passive retroreflector) would depend on how frequently they'd want to do data-dumps, and all that.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 07/22/2019 04:43 am
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1153159946306932737 (https://twitter.com/isro/status/1153159946306932737)
Quote
Less than five hours for the launch !!!
Filling of Liquid Oxygen for the Cryogenic Stage(C25) of #GSLVMkIII-M1 commenced
#Chandrayaan2 #ISRO
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 07:22 am
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1153201031645282304

Quote
#Chandrayaan2 #ISRO
Two hours to go !!! Filling of Liquid Oxygen in Cryogenic Stage(C25) of #GSLVMkIII-M1 completed and Filling of Liquid Hydrogen is in progress

12:12 AM - 22 Jul 2019
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 07:37 am
NDTV live coverage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu7iV-OaWF4
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 07:44 am
T-1 hour and 29 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 07:51 am
NDTV studio in simulated Lunar surface.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 08:13 am
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1153215287832895488

Quote
#ISRO #Chandrayaan2
Filling of Liquid Hydrogen in Cryogenic Stage(C25) of #GSLVMkIII-M1 completed.

1:08 AM - 22 Jul 2019
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 08:21 am
Countdown clock is counting down normally. Have past the point that previous problem was detected.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 08:23 am
T-50 minutes. Talking about NASA laser reflector.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 08:33 am
T-40 minutes. No parts had to be replaced to fix problem.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: AJA on 07/22/2019 08:35 am

T-40 minutes. No parts had to be replaced to fix problem.

According to NDTV: apparently they fixed it by tightening bolts. Hark back to the Apollo 11 launch anyone?  :P




Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 08:43 am
T-30 minutes. Talking about India having to develop its own technology.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 08:47 am
Webcast has begun, but ISRO official hasn't started yet.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Phillip Clark on 07/22/2019 08:47 am
Having the "blurb" taking up so much room across the bottom of the screen is most annoying.

Now found another feed without the blurb. :)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: AJA on 07/22/2019 08:48 am
Webcast has begun, but ISRO official hasn't started yet.

I'm sorry, but no it's not called that (referring to the image). Mainstream media coverage of this is going to be abhorrent.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 08:49 am
T-25 minutes. ISRO webcast has started.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 08:50 am
Doordarshan National stream. Quality seems a little better and is few seconds earlier than ISRO feed. Still has the wrong aspect ratio!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f_HxuVHfrw
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 08:53 am
T-20 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 08:55 am
Launch has been authorised.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 08:57 am
T-17 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 08:58 am
T-15 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/22/2019 09:01 am
Short rocket overview:

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1153228164476350464
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: K210 on 07/22/2019 09:01 am
For those tuning in i recommend the DD stream. They have the best quality and lowest latency.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:02 am
T-12 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:04 am
T-10 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:05 am
T-9 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:06 am
T-8 minutes. Commentator is describing launch sequence.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:07 am
T-7 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 09:07 am
ISRO official streams:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QvVCV1Ve5U

https://www.isro.gov.in/gslv-mk-iii-m1-chandrayaan-2-mission/watch-live-launch-of-gslv-mkiii-m1-chandrayaan2

https://www.facebook.com/ISRO/videos/708488529579600/
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:08 am
T-6 minutes. Launch is at 09:13:12 UTC.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:09 am
T-5 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:10 am
T-4 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: PM3 on 07/22/2019 09:10 am
Updated launch kit with new timeline appended for reference
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:11 am
T-3 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:12 am
T-2 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/22/2019 09:13 am
30 seconds!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:13 am
T-1 minute.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:14 am
Liftoff!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/22/2019 09:15 am
Launch clip!
https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1153231982496817152
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:16 am
T+1 minute.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:16 am
Booster separation.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:17 am
T+3 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:18 am
Fairing separation.

T+4 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:19 am
T+5 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/22/2019 09:20 am
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:20 am
First stage separation.

T+6 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:21 am
T+7 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:22 am
T+8 minutes. Cryo stage performance nominal.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 09:23 am
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:23 am
T+9 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:24 am
T+10 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 09:24 am
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 09:25 am
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:25 am
T+11 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:26 am
T+12 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 09:26 am
Sadhguru
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:27 am
T+13 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 09:28 am
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:28 am
T+14 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 09:29 am
Former ISRO chairmen.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:29 am
T+15 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 09:29 am
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 09:30 am
Does trace look fine?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:30 am
T+16 minutes.

Cutoff!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:31 am
Separation!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/22/2019 09:32 am
S/C Sep clip.

Thanks again to Steven, vyoma and all for the coverage!

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1153236180709904384
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 09:32 am
Spacecraft sep complete. C25 burn to completion, over-performance for precise GTO injection, to save orbiter fuel.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 09:34 am
Orbit is 6,000 km higher than what was intended. This was done to save orbiter fuel.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:34 am
Emotional ISRO Chairman. Orbit is 6000 km better than expected. GSLV performance increased by 15%.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: sanjaykumar on 07/22/2019 09:35 am
6000 KM more than expected.... YAY...
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 07/22/2019 09:37 am
Massive overperformance, which is interesting. Seems happy about it, as it will provide more life, but how can it be so far off is wild.

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1153237305924173824
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: sanjaykumar on 07/22/2019 09:38 am
Chairman Sivan - GSLV Mark  III - 15% more performance than earlier mission.  4000 KG to GTO Achieved.....
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: sanjaykumar on 07/22/2019 09:41 am
Chariman Sivan .... Work of tomorrow's first satellite burn already completed by rocket...
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/22/2019 09:43 am
End of coverage.

Congratulations to ISRO for the successful launch! Best of luck for the upcoming landing.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Sridhar on 07/22/2019 09:44 am
They burned the stage to depletion rather than the usual launch sequence, where the closed loop guidance system shuts the engine off when the intended orbital parameters have been achieved.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: sanman on 07/22/2019 09:44 am
Thanks for all these great screenshots, Steve - you always capture the right moments  :)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: hornbill2007 on 07/22/2019 09:49 am
congrats isro, scientists and technicians, past and present who worked on the mission.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: NancyV on 07/22/2019 09:50 am
They burned the stage to depletion rather than the usual launch sequence, where the closed loop guidance system shuts the engine off when the intended orbital parameters have been achieved.

Same thing as the first Falcon Heavy launch.

That was awesome to watch!  The Chairman looked pleased as punch.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: K210 on 07/22/2019 09:52 am
Congrats to ISRO for a successful launch!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 07/22/2019 09:52 am

Looks to me like a slight under performance  of the cryo stage towards the end of the burn. Which was more than offset by
 burning to depletion ( longer duration burn).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: starbase on 07/22/2019 10:02 am
Upcoming events as announced on the webcast (hopefully all understood correctly):

-) 6 orbit raising burns at perigee 3, 4, 6, 11, 16, 19 (orbit changes to: 47000km apogee, 243km perigee, 55800km apogee, 71500km apogee, 89700km apogee)

-) Aug. 14 TLI burn at perigee 22

-) Aug. 20 arrival initial lunar orbit (120km x 18000km)

-) Late August - 4 perilune braking burns

-) Sep. 1 arrival final lunar orbit (100 x 100km)

-) Early September - separation lander/rover (orbit change to 30 x 100km)

-) Sep. 6 - 21:28 UTC landing (Sep. 7 - 2:58am IST)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: whiztech on 07/22/2019 10:44 am
2 objects


Quote
1 44441U 19042A   19203.40693672 -.00010969  68193-4  00000+0 0  9991
2 44441  21.3772  17.7365 7761146 178.4611   7.5305  1.75640648    01

45,124.3 km x 151.3 km, 21.37º


Quote
1 44442U 19042B   19203.40872376 -.00001563  17283-5  00000+0 0  9997
2 44442  21.4253  18.0300 7739947 178.5988   8.7184  1.77127690    09

44,733.6 km x 173.7 km, 21.41º

edit: 2nd object
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: lamid on 07/22/2019 11:08 am
 https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi#results  new data:
ch2l_spk_190722-191231_planning_v1.V0.1 2019-Jul-22 09:30 2019-Dec-31
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: nbharatwaj on 07/22/2019 12:37 pm
Thanks for all these great screenshots, Steve - you always capture the right moments  :)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: K210 on 07/22/2019 01:41 pm
Onboard camera video is out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy-0JrjNqMQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy-0JrjNqMQ)

Original: https://www.isro.gov.in/gslv-mk-iii-m1-chandrayaan-2-mission/lift-and-onboard-camera-view-of-gslv-mkiii-m1-chandrayaan2
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: VIKINGirl on 07/22/2019 01:47 pm
Its FIRST mission to go to Moon South Pole right ? Then why wikipedia says Chinese landed there first ?

As far as i know Chinese landed around 45 degree latitude not at 90 and Indians are clearly going to land at around 70 altitude so why Wikipedia says Chinese landed First near South Pole ?

NASA's Surveyor landed at 40-41 degree latitude so by that logic US landed near South Pole first ?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: PM3 on 07/22/2019 02:20 pm
Its FIRST mission to go to Moon South Pole right ? Then why wikipedia says Chinese landed there first ?

fixed (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chandrayaan-2&diff=907381318&oldid=907380679)

Probably a misunderstanding of the term "South Pole–Aitken basin", which includes both, the Chang'e 4 landing site and the south pole.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Yeknom-Ecaps on 07/22/2019 02:48 pm
Does NASA's Deep Space Network participate in this mission in a supporting role?

I know they participate in JAXA Hayabusa2 mission even though JAXA has deep space stations. The DSN also supports ESA  even though it also has deep space stations.

Have never seen info one way or the other for Indian missions.

Thanks

Yes they do. See https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965660#msg1965660

NASA DSN supports the launch!

https://twitter.com/nascom1/status/1153235287595610112
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: jacqmans on 07/22/2019 02:55 pm
Jul 22, 2019

GSLV MkIII-M1 Successfully Launches Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft

India’s Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle GSLV MkIII-M1, successfully launched the 3840 kg Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft into an earth orbit today (July 22, 2019). The spacecraft is now revolving round the earth with a perigee (nearest point to Earth) of 169.7 km and an apogee (farthest point to Earth) of 45,475 km.  Today’s flight marks the first operational flight of the GSLV Mk III.

After a smooth countdown lasting 20 hours, GSLV MkIII-M1 vehicle majestically lifted off from the Second Launch Pad at the Satish Dhawan Space Centre SHAR (SDSC SHAR), Sriharikota at the scheduled launch time of 1443Hrs (2:43 pm) Indian Standard Time (IST) with the ignition of its two S200 solid strap-on motors.  All the subsequent flight events occurred as scheduled.

About 16 minutes 14 seconds after lift-off, the vehicle injected Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft into an elliptical earth orbit. Immediately after spacecraft separation from the vehicle, the solar array of the spacecraft automatically got deployed and ISRO Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC), Bengaluru successfully took control of the spacecraft.

ISRO Chairman Dr K Sivan congratulated the launch vehicle and satellite teams involved in this challenging mission. “Today is a historical day for Space Science and Technology in India. I am extremely happy to announce that GSLV MkIII-M1 successfully injected Chandrayaan-2 into an orbit of 6000 Km more than the intended orbit and is better.”

“Today is the beginning of the historical journey of India towards Moon and to land at a place near south pole to carry out scientific experiments to explore the unexplored. On July 15, 2019 ISRO intelligently observed a technical snag, Team ISRO worked out, fixed and corrected the snag within 24 hours. For the next one and a half day, the required tests were conducted to ensure that corrections made were proper and in right direction. Today ISRO bounced back with flying colours.” Dr. Sivan said.

In the coming days, a series of orbit manoeuvres will be carried out using Chandrayaan-2’s onboard propulsion system.  This will raise the spacecraft orbit in steps and then place it in the Lunar Transfer Trajectory to enable the spacecraft to travel to the vicinity of the Moon.

GSLV Mk III is a three-stage launch vehicle developed by ISRO. The vehicle has two solid strap-ons, a core liquid booster and a cryogenic upper stage. The vehicle is designed to carry 4 ton class of satellites into Geosynchronous Transfer Orbit (GTO) or about 10 tons to Low Earth Orbit (LEO).

Chandrayaan-2 is India's second mission to the moon. It comprises a fully indigenous Orbiter, Lander (Vikram) and Rover (Pragyan). The Rover Pragyan is housed inside Vikram lander.

The mission objective of Chandrayaan-2 is to develop and demonstrate the key technologies for end-to-end lunar mission capability, including soft-landing and roving on the lunar surface. On the science front, this mission aims to further expand our knowledge about the Moon through a detailed study of its topography, mineralogy, surface chemical composition, thermo-physical characteristics and atmosphere leading to a better understanding of the origin and evolution of the Moon.

After leaving earth orbit and on entering Moon's sphere of influence, the on-board propulsion system of Chandrayaan-2 will be fired to slow down the spacecraft. This will enable it to be captured into a preliminary orbit around the Moon. Later, through a set of manoeuvres, the orbit of Chandrayaan-2 around the moon will be circularised at 100 km height from the lunar surface.

Subsequently, the lander will separate from the Orbiter and enters into a 100 km X 30 km orbit around the Moon.  Then, it will perform a series of complex braking maneuvers to soft land in the South polar region of the Moon on September 7, 2019.

Following this, the Rover will roll out from the lander and carries out experiments on the lunar surface for a period of 1 lunar day, which is equal to 14 Earth days. The mission life of the lander is also 1 lunar day.The Orbiter will continue its mission for a duration of one year.

The orbiter had a lift-off weight of about 2,369 kg, while the lander and rover weighed 1,477 kg and 26 kg respectively.  The rover can travel up to 500 m (half a kilometre) and relies on electric power generated by its solar panel for functioning.

Chandrayaan-2 has several science payloads to facilitate a more detailed understanding of the origin and evolution of the Moon. The Orbiter carries eight payloads, the lander carries three, and the rover carries two.  Besides, a passive experiment is included on the lander.The Orbiter payloads will conduct remote-sensing observations from a 100 km orbit while the Lander and Rover payloads will perform in-situ measurements near the landing site.

The ground facilities constitute the third vital element of Chandrayaan-2mission.  They perform the important task of receiving the health information as well as the scientific data from the spacecraft. They also transmit the radio commands to the spacecraft. The Ground Segment of Chandrayaan-2 consists of Indian Deep Space Network, Spacecraft Control Centre and Indian Space Science Data Centre.

Today’s successful launch of Chandrayaan-2 is a significant milestone in this challenging mission. A total number of 7500 visitors witnessed the launch live from the Viewer’s Gallery at Sriharikota.

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/22-jul-2019/gslv-mkiii-m1-successfully-launches-chandrayaan-2-spacecraft
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: jacqmans on 07/22/2019 02:57 pm
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Norm38 on 07/22/2019 03:14 pm
I have not followed this at all but I wish them luck and congratulate them on the launch.

Are they aiming for a crater or feature where ice has been spotted?  I hope they find ice, lots of it.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/22/2019 03:47 pm
https://twitter.com/abcbrisbane/status/1153257136777912321
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: isro-watch on 07/22/2019 04:18 pm
I have not followed this at all but I wish them luck and congratulate them on the launch.

Are they aiming for a crater or feature where ice has been spotted?  I hope they find ice, lots of it.

The lander and the rover will land in a high plain between two craters, Manzinus C and Simpelius N, at a latitude of about 70° south. Both the craters are suspected to contain water.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: rpapo on 07/22/2019 04:24 pm
From Google Earth, Lunar view.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: VIKINGirl on 07/22/2019 06:44 pm
Can someone change Wikipedia article on 'Chandrayaan-2' . It keeps saying Chinese mission is First to land on Lunar South Pole but in reality it landed far from the South Pole .  :o
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Sridhar on 07/22/2019 07:15 pm
Technically, Chandrayaan-2 is not landing in the lunar polar region thought ISRO keeps claiming so. 70 degrees south in not what is typically considered polar region (80 degrees onwards is). That said, it is landing closer to the pole than any other lander.   
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 07/22/2019 07:56 pm
@VIKINGirl re: WP article.

Welcome to the forum!  Speaking as a fellow forum member:

The "first/second polar region landing" statement appears to be caught up in an ongoing edit war.  As of this minute, it says "first" again.

The NSF forums are not Wikipedia.  Complaining here about WP content will accomplish nothing.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/22/2019 08:42 pm
@VIKINGirl re: WP article.

Welcome to the forum!  Speaking as a fellow forum member:

The "first/second polar region landing" statement appears to be caught up in an ongoing edit war.  As of this minute, it says "first" again.

The NSF forums are not Wikipedia.  Complaining here about WP content will accomplish nothing.
Yes, please report it to their moderation system and they will decide whether to lock the editing on the that page. If it is edited to many times it will be automatically disabled and subject to manual review.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: lamid on 07/22/2019 10:58 pm

edit: 2nd object
Space-track.org
Object B   2019-042B
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: sanman on 07/23/2019 12:45 am
Why are 3 objects (A, B C) listed instead of one, when a single integrated payload was launched from Sriharikota?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: DatUser14 on 07/23/2019 12:49 am
Why are 3 objects (A, B C) listed instead of one, when a single integrated payload was launched from Sriharikota?
one of the three objects is the launch vehicles upper stage.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: sanman on 07/23/2019 12:52 am
Why are 3 objects (A, B C) listed instead of one, when a single integrated payload was launched from Sriharikota?
one of the three objects is the launch vehicles upper stage.

Okay, and assuming one of the others is the integrated payload, then what's the remaining one?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: s^3 on 07/23/2019 01:43 am
^^^
Exactly, That is the question.
Launcher last stage and the spacecraft are routine objects.
What is that third object?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: nbharatwaj on 07/23/2019 03:48 am
Looks like chandrayaan-3 is already in the works for 2024.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/chandrayaan-2-after-chandrayaan-2-is-a-moon-3-sample-return-trip-next-with-japan/article28655993.ece
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/23/2019 05:37 am
Looks like chandrayaan-3 is already in the works for 2024.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/chandrayaan-2-after-chandrayaan-2-is-a-moon-3-sample-return-trip-next-with-japan/article28655993.ece
Their is a dedicated thread already for next mission so please use it.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48396.0
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Phil Stooke on 07/23/2019 06:36 am
"What is that third object?"

Probably nothing more than an interstage structure, a cover or mount for something.  Quite a lot of stuff can be discarded during operations, usually to re-enter quite quickly.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: AStick on 07/24/2019 12:24 am
Crew made a boo boo.  There is no third object.  It should disappear from space-track tomorrow. 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: Unni on 07/24/2019 05:44 am
Australians Thought Chandrayaan-2 Was A UFO   ;D
Interesting news report from Australia.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-23/astronomer-explains-strange-object-seen-in-night-sky/11336446 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-23/astronomer-explains-strange-object-seen-in-night-sky/11336446)

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 07/24/2019 10:05 am
ISRO update on the first orbit raising burn:

Quote
Chandrayaan2 update: First earth bound maneuver

First earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (July 24, 2019) at 1452 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 57 seconds. The new orbit will be 230 X 45163 km.

The second orbit raising maneuver is scheduled on July 26, 2019, at 0109 hrs (IST).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 07/24/2019 10:21 am
List of all orbit raising burns, up to TLI:


https://www.isro.gov.in/update/24-jul-2019/chandrayaan-2-updatemission-plan-of-chandrayaan-2-spacecraft
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 07/24/2019 10:39 am
List of all orbit raising burns, up to TLI:


https://www.isro.gov.in/update/24-jul-2019/chandrayaan-2-updatemission-plan-of-chandrayaan-2-spacecraft
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: nbharatwaj on 07/24/2019 11:04 am
Looks like chandrayaan-3 is already in the works for 2024.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/chandrayaan-2-after-chandrayaan-2-is-a-moon-3-sample-return-trip-next-with-japan/article28655993.ece
Their is a dedicated thread already for next mission so please use it.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48396.0

Thank-you. I noticed that thread after posting on this one. My apologies.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: sanjaykumar on 07/24/2019 01:31 pm
Quoting Chris's article....

The fact that India’s first soft lunar landing mission’s launch will coincide within a day of the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 lunar landing is completely coincidental.


Really ?

Could it be ISRO way to saying "Thank you NASA"


Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: eeergo on 07/24/2019 01:35 pm
Quoting Chris's article....

The fact that India’s first soft lunar landing mission’s launch will coincide within a day of the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 lunar landing is completely coincidental.

Really ?

Could it be ISRO way to saying "Thank you NASA"


Quoting that same article, which uses info easily verifiable just looking upthread:

Quote
The mission was originally targeted to launch in 2011 as a joint Indian-Russian venture[...]

Natural delays in design and build, as well as Roscosmos’ financial difficulties, delayed the mission to 2013.  Then, the November 2011 mission failure of the Phobos-Grunt Mars probe delayed construction of Russia’s Lander contribution and pushed the Chandrayaan-2 mission into 2015. Continued financial fallout from the Phobos-Grunt mission failure as well as other financial problems plaguing Roscosmos eventually led the Russian agency to withdraw from the Chandrayaan-2 mission.

India then decided to do the mission by itself.  With that, the launch was pushed to March 2018 before incurring delays to April and October of that same year before moving into the “first half of 2019”. Minor damage to two of the Lander’s legs during pre-flight testing in February 2019 further delayed the launch to 14 July. [+leak problems]
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: sanjaykumar on 07/24/2019 10:28 pm
Quoting Chris's article....

The fact that India’s first soft lunar landing mission’s launch will coincide within a day of the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 lunar landing is completely coincidental.

Really ?

Could it be ISRO way to saying "Thank you NASA"


Quoting that same article, which uses info easily verifiable just looking upthread:

Quote
The mission was originally targeted to launch in 2011 as a joint Indian-Russian venture[...]

Natural delays in design and build, as well as Roscosmos’ financial difficulties, delayed the mission to 2013.  Then, the November 2011 mission failure of the Phobos-Grunt Mars probe delayed construction of Russia’s Lander contribution and pushed the Chandrayaan-2 mission into 2015. Continued financial fallout from the Phobos-Grunt mission failure as well as other financial problems plaguing Roscosmos eventually led the Russian agency to withdraw from the Chandrayaan-2 mission.

India then decided to do the mission by itself.  With that, the launch was pushed to March 2018 before incurring delays to April and October of that same year before moving into the “first half of 2019”. Minor damage to two of the Lander’s legs during pre-flight testing in February 2019 further delayed the launch to 14 July. [+leak problems]

Leave out history of delays, consider only the mysterious cryo problem at last moment after all the QC process put in place to manage similar issue earlier with MK2....

One the lighter side, ISRO posted images of viewer gallery.


Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 GSLV MkIII - July 22 2019 (09:13UTC)
Post by: lamid on 07/24/2019 11:40 pm
space-track.org catalog:
CHANDRAYAAN 2   2019-042A
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: JimO on 07/25/2019 05:15 am
Does anyone have a good value for the upper stage Isp? That would determine exhaust velocity, and with burn duration would determine physical length of plume [adjusted for accel during burn]. That absolute scale can be compared with range to observer and aspect angle of thrust vector. Estimated vehicle accel [g-force] during burn would also be helpful.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 07/25/2019 06:50 am
Isp of the CE-20 used on the C25 upper stage is 443 seconds.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/AeroIndia2009/krishG/IMG_0027.JPG.html
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 07/25/2019 08:32 pm
Second orbit-raising maneuver has now been completed:

https://twitter.com/isro/status/1154485040119574529

Details:

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/26-jul-2019/chandrayaan2-update-second-earth-bound-maneuver

Quote
Second earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (July 26, 2019) at 0108 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 883 seconds. The orbit achieved is 251 x 54829 km.

All spacecraft parameters are normal.

The third orbit raising maneuver is scheduled on July 29, 2019, between 1430 – 1530  hrs (IST).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: A.K. on 07/25/2019 11:54 pm
I'm wondering why do we have to utilize NASA's deep deep space network. We do have our own, don't we?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 07/26/2019 12:44 am
I'm wondering why do we have to utilize NASA's deep deep space network. We do have our own, don't we?
You dont have a world wide network with the capabilities needed.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: hop on 07/26/2019 01:17 am
I'm wondering why do we have to utilize NASA's deep deep space network. We do have our own, don't we?
DSN covers almost the whole sky, because there are stations in Goldstone, Canberra, and Madrid. AFAIK the Indian system only has large dishes near Bangalore, so it can only see the spacecraft some of the time.

JAXA and ESA regularly use DSN too.

From  https://directory.eoportal.org/web/eoportal/satellite-missions/c-missions/chandrayaan-2
Quote
IDSN (Indian Deep Space Network) consisting of 11 m, 18 m and a 32 m antenna were established at the IDSN campus in Byalalu near Bangalore as part of the Chandrayaan-1 mission ground segment. The IDSN station will receive the Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft health data as well as the payload data. For the orbit raising phase, the TTC functions will be executed by ground stations of the ISTRAC network (Bangalore, Mauritius, Port Blair, Brunei, Biak, Trivandrum). The NASA/JPL DSN (Deep Space Network of Goldstone, Canberra, and Madrid) will provide deep space communication with the Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter as requisitioned.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: s^3 on 07/26/2019 01:19 am
I'm wondering why do we have to utilize NASA's deep deep space network. We do have our own, don't we?

Because  spacecraft is not visible at all times at any one place.   So you require stations spread out over the Globe.

BTW, Do we really require a DSN for Lunar communication?   Can't regular station suffice?
 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 07/26/2019 02:06 am
One day if IDRSS is implemented, it might help reduce India's dependence on overseas ground stations:

https://www.indiatoday.in/education-today/gk-current-affairs/story/satellites-isro-idrss-1411248-2018-12-17


It's not primarily meant for Deep Space communication, but in principle it could adapted for that use as well.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: VIKINGirl on 07/26/2019 02:31 pm
India has enough money and resources to create its own Worldwide deep space network . But they have good relations with the US so they dont need that kind of network right now .
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: demonslayer on 07/27/2019 05:35 am
I believe DSN serves more as a backup than as a prime coms and tracking network.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 07/27/2019 09:14 am
One day if IDRSS is implemented, it might help reduce India's dependence on overseas ground stations:

https://www.indiatoday.in/education-today/gk-current-affairs/story/satellites-isro-idrss-1411248-2018-12-17


It's not primarily meant for Deep Space communication, but in principle it could adapted for that use as well.

Earth stations have high  power transmitters , large antennas , and very sensitive receivers to enable communication with deep  space probes.
I doubt that idrss satellites will be able to communicate over interplanetary distances ( mainly limited by antenna size , and transmitter power.)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: srikanthr124 on 07/28/2019 10:59 am
Chandrayaan-2 may orbit Moon for 2 years (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-may-orbit-moon-for-2-years/articleshow/70416802.cms)

The orbiter was packed with 1,697kg of propellant at launch and it has expended about 130kg for the two manoeuvres on July 24 and 26.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 07/29/2019 11:57 am
Third orbit raising maneuver done: 

https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-latest-updates

Quote

July 29, 2019

Third earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (July 29, 2019) at 1512 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 989 seconds. The orbit achieved is 276 x 71792 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The fourth orbit raising maneuver is scheduled on August 2, 2019, between 1400 – 1500 hrs (IST).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 07/30/2019 05:30 am
Trajectory Chandrayaan-2
Chandrayaan-2 launched 2019-July-22 @ 09:13 UT

Trajectory name Start (TDB) Stop (TDB)
---------------------------------------- ----------------- -----------------
ch2o_spk_190722-190725_od002_v1_dsn.V0.1 2019-Jul-22 09:31 2019-Jul-22 10:19
ch2o_spk_190722-190725_od003_v1_dsn.V0.1 2019-Jul-22 10:20 2019-Jul-23 05:19
ch2o_spk_190723-190726_od006_v1_dsn.V0.1 2019-Jul-23 05:19 2019-Jul-24 03:01
ch2o_spk_EBA1-TLI_planning_v1.V0.1 2019-Jul-24 03:01 2019-Aug-22 00:00

Compare with:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965562#msg1965562
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 07/30/2019 01:22 pm
Comparison of planned Jul 14th and realized Jul 22 trajectory:
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Vikranth on 07/30/2019 04:48 pm
Comparison of planned Jul 14th and realized Jul 22 trajectory:
So Chandrayaan 2 is arriving a week late but still landing on the same date???
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 07/30/2019 05:04 pm
Comparison of planned Jul 14th and realized Jul 22 trajectory:
So Chandrayaan 2 is arriving a week late but still landing on the same date???

Hi resolution mapping of the landing area by the orbiter, uploading the terrain maps to the lander, and fine tuning of the exact landing spot will need to be  done in a shorter time - but still about ~15 days must be more than ample.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: vyoma on 07/31/2019 12:07 am
Agreement between ISRO and NASA for cooperation on Chandrayaan-2 mission: https://www.mea.gov.in/Portal/LegalTreatiesDoc/US19B3558-1.pdf
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Phil Stooke on 08/01/2019 10:54 pm
"Hi resolution mapping of the landing area by the orbiter, uploading the terrain maps to the lander, and fine tuning of the exact landing spot will need to be  done in a shorter time - but still about ~15 days must be more than ample."

We know that the lander will spend less time in orbit because of the launch delay.  But 15 days will not be ample for mapping the landing site because the site will be in darkness most of that time.  The landing is shortly after sunrise (36 hours after sunrise, I believe), so it will be in darkness for 14 out of the 15 days.

Not to worry, because ISRO has access to all the LRO images in PDS, including stereo images, and it can do all the mapping it needs without using its own high resolution camera (and that has already been done and reported at LPSC this year, albeit in a print-only abstract).  The camera on Chandrayaan 2's orbiter will be most useful for post-landing documentation.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Vikranth on 08/02/2019 03:54 am
"Hi resolution mapping of the landing area by the orbiter, uploading the terrain maps to the lander, and fine tuning of the exact landing spot will need to be  done in a shorter time - but still about ~15 days must be more than ample."

We know that the lander will spend less time in orbit because of the launch delay.  But 15 days will not be ample for mapping the landing site because the site will be in darkness most of that time.  The landing is shortly after sunrise (36 hours after sunrise, I believe), so it will be in darkness for 14 out of the 15 days.

Not to worry, because ISRO has access to all the LRO images in PDS, including stereo images, and it can do all the mapping it needs without using its own high resolution camera (and that has already been done and reported at LPSC this year, albeit in a print-only abstract).  The camera on Chandrayaan 2's orbiter will be most useful for post-landing documentation.
But in ISRO's mission sequence video,it shows that the lander too does some part of the scanning while in orbit.It's obvious now there is not pinpoint landing site as of now.So the orbiter shortlists the landing sites whereas the lander further fine tunes it.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 08/02/2019 10:46 am
"Hi resolution mapping of the landing area by the orbiter, uploading the terrain maps to the lander, and fine tuning of the exact landing spot will need to be  done in a shorter time - but still about ~15 days must be more than ample."

We know that the lander will spend less time in orbit because of the launch delay.  But 15 days will not be ample for mapping the landing site because the site will be in darkness most of that time.  The landing is shortly after sunrise (36 hours after sunrise, I believe), so it will be in darkness for 14 out of the 15 days.

Not to worry, because ISRO has access to all the LRO images in PDS, including stereo images, and it can do all the mapping it needs without using its own high resolution camera (and that has already been done and reported at LPSC this year, albeit in a print-only abstract).  The camera on Chandrayaan 2's orbiter will be most useful for post-landing documentation.

As mentioned by vikranth, ISRO says the lander(vikram) will be updated with the high resolution images of the landing site captured by the orbiter.
Maybe the lander (optimally?) needs the images of the  landing site at sunrise - brightness, shadows, crater illumination etc.  These images at dawn may or may not be readily available in library images ( LRO or others).  -All this is just my guess.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Olaf on 08/02/2019 11:10 am
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/02-aug-2019/chandrayaan2-update-fourth-earth-bound-maneuver
Quote
Chandrayaan2 update: Fourth earth bound maneuver
Fourth earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (August 2, 2019) at 1527 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 646 seconds. The orbit achieved is 277 x 89472 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The next orbit raising maneuver is scheduled on August 6, 2019, between 1430 – 1530 hrs (IST).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 08/02/2019 11:17 am
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/02-aug-2019/chandrayaan2-update-fourth-earth-bound-maneuver
Quote
Chandrayaan2 update: Fourth earth bound maneuver
Fourth earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (August 2, 2019) at 1527 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 646 seconds. The orbit achieved is 277 x 89472 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The next orbit raising maneuver is scheduled on August 6, 2019, between 1430 – 1530 hrs (IST).

A small short fall, orbit planned: 248 x 90229 km. - may be they will catch up in the next burn , or TLI, or mid course corrections ( if any ).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Phil Stooke on 08/02/2019 07:17 pm
Good points, all, and thanks for this.  The only opportunity to do this will be on the orbit before the descent (or possibly the orbit before that, or during the descent) - otherwise, either the site is in darkness or the orbiter is not over the site as it crosses that latitude.  You are right that an image with lighting matching the actual descent conditions would be best for an image matching algorithm, if that is used to guide the lander to a particular spot. 

We also know that hazard avoidance will be used by the lander during descent.  Twice it will hover briefly (at 400 m and 100 m, I think) while onboard image processing looks for a safe spot to land.  Chang'e 3 and 4 also did this, but no previous robotic landers attempted it.

My guess, putting this together, is that potential sites in the landing ellipse will be chosen ahead of the landing based on LRO images.  Images taken from orbit during the descent orbit or the one before will be fed to the lander computer for image matching purposes to guide the lander to the desired spot.  Finally, hazard avoidance imaging by the lander will refine the exact landing point.

Best wishes to Vikram and Pragyan!

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Olaf on 08/04/2019 07:35 am
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1157901184520167424
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: tappa on 08/06/2019 11:50 am
Chandrayaan2 update: Fifth earth bound maneuver (https://www.isro.gov.in/update/06-aug-2019/chandrayaan2-update-fifth-earth-bound-maneuver)

Quote
Fifth earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (August 6, 2019) at 1504 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 1041 seconds. The orbit achieved is 276 x 142975 km.

All spacecraft parameters are normal.

The next maneuver is Trans Lunar Insertion (TLI), which is scheduled on August 14, 2019, between 0300 – 0400 hrs (IST).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: sanjaykumar on 08/08/2019 02:51 am
Original Plan


06.08.2019
14:30 - 15:30
 221 x 143585
 

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/24-jul-2019/chandrayaan-%E2%80%93-2-update-optimised-mission-plan-of-chandrayaan-%E2%80%93-2-spacecraft
 (https://www.isro.gov.in/update/24-jul-2019/chandrayaan-%E2%80%93-2-update-optimised-mission-plan-of-chandrayaan-%E2%80%93-2-spacecraft)

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 08/11/2019 06:49 am
Hoping for and looking forward to, broadcast ( at least a webcast) for important upcoming events like TLI, LOI, and the Landing.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 08/11/2019 08:45 am
I don't expect a webcast for TLI and LOI since there won't be anything to see (other than telemetry data), but hopefully there will be a webcast for the landing, where pictures or video of the landing might be transmitted.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: input~2 on 08/11/2019 09:29 am
 
Quote from:  Intelsat's FCC filing
Intelsat requests an expedited grant of Special Temporary Authority for three days, commencing August 13, 2019, to utilize a 7.3m S-band antenna located at its Paumalu, Hawaii teleport to receive telemetry signals from the Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft as it transits to the Moon. Chandrayaan-2 launched on July 22, 2019. Intelsat is seeking expedited treatment because, due to unforeseen circumstances, the original antennas that were planned to support the spacecraft’s maneuvers on August 13th will not have coverage of the spacecraft when the maneuvers will occur. Intelsat expects to receive telemetry for approximately five minutes on August 13, 2019.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 08/11/2019 12:12 pm
I don't expect a webcast for TLI and LOI since there won't be anything to see (other than telemetry data), but hopefully there will be a webcast for the landing, where pictures or video of the landing might be transmitted.

Just as they did for Mangalyan's MOI.

They can spice this up with spacecraft animation:
-orienting of the space craft before the TLI and LOI burns.
-animation of the engines and attitude thrusters firing.
-maybe even a good bye image of the earth-TLI, and a welcome image of the moon-LOI.

This will hopefully keep the general populace ( particularly in India ) involved and enthused
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Astro_Neel on 08/11/2019 05:38 pm
Has anyone looked into the locations of payloads and tried to figure out where exactly have they placed NASA's retroreflector on it? I've looked into all kinds of resources to get a glimpse of it, but couldn't find it anywhere. This is the only one I'm having trouble finding despite knowing the fact that it should be someplace on top of the lander facing upwards to be in line of sight with the incoming laser.

For every other payload, we know the location already (with very little changes), thanks to this image. Let me know if you have any clues about where that LRA is.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 08/12/2019 05:29 am
Also, cannot find any description / location of the surface camera(s) on the lander(surely there must be at least one). The rover seems to have one front facing camera.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 08/12/2019 06:44 am
The reflector is pretty small. You might want to ask ISRO (https://www.isro.gov.in/contact-us-0) where the reflector is.

https://www.space.com/next-gen-apollo-moon-laser-reflector-on-india-mission.html
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: ddspaceman on 08/13/2019 12:40 pm
Chandrayaan 2 To Leave Earth’s Orbit Tomorrow To Reach Moon As Per Schedule On 20 August; Landing On 7 September

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/chandrayaan-2-to-leave-earths-orbit-tomorrow-to-reach-moon-as-per-schedule-on-20-august-landing-on-7-september


Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 08/13/2019 08:12 pm
TRAJECTORY Chandrayaan-2:
  This is a merge of post-launch trajectory solutions fit to tracking data
  through 2019-Aug-12, with a prediction extending to Aug 15.
Trajectory name                             Start (TDB)        Stop (TDB)
  ch2o_spk_190722-[190810_od0*]_v*_dsn.V0.* 2019-Jul-22 09:31 2019-Aug-15 12:00

https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi#results
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: sturmanskie on 08/13/2019 11:47 pm
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/14-aug-2019/chandrayaan-2-successfully-enters-lunar-transfer-trajectory
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 08/14/2019 05:28 am
Looks like ISRO has a nice animation of TLI.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 08/14/2019 05:44 am
TRAJECTORY:
  This is a merge of post-launch trajectory solutions fit to tracking data
  through 2019-Aug-12, with a prediction extending to Aug 21.

  Trajectory name                             Start (TDB)        Stop (TDB)
  ch2o_spk_190722-[190810_od0*]_v*_dsn.V0.* 2019-Jul-22 09:31 2019-Aug-21 03:45


From data
335 x 405 115 km
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: s^3 on 08/14/2019 05:38 pm
3D representation of the Orbit Geometry post TLI manuever.

First a general view of a combination of Earth, Moon and CH2 orbits(after 5th ORM ) depicting
1. What would have been the undisturbed orbit if TLI was not done
2. Post TLI new orbit carrying CH2 from Earth's Gravity to Lunar gravity
3. Propose LOI 1st burn tossing the CH2 in 18000 kms orbit around Moon.

The Blue triangle is the Neutral Point where both Earth's gravity and Moon's gravity are equal andthe s/c enters Lunar gravity field.
This transition happens in the early hours of 17th August.

(https://oi50.photobucket.com/albums/f314/sam0403/Moon%20insertion%20detail4_zps5kwh0iuc.png)
 

2nd image shows the same situation in ( nearly ) in-plane orbit of the CH2 orbit.

Notice how the craft nears moon and how the orbit inclination changes to nearly North-South after 1st LOI. 1st LOI sends the CH2 in 118km x18078km orbit around Moon.

(https://oi50.photobucket.com/albums/f314/sam0403/Moon%20insertion%20detail3_zpsirnf2mgo.png)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: kvsankar on 08/14/2019 10:23 pm
I have put together a very rudimentary 2D animation of the Chandrayaan 2 orbit based on orbit data available from JPL/NASA HORIZONS interface:

http://sankara.net/chandrayaan2.html

The animation works better on larger screens like those of a typical PC/laptop. The UX is not great on mobiles - hope to fix it in the next few days.

The orbit data from JPL is available only until 21st August, 2019. I will update the animation as and when updated orbit data is available.

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 08/15/2019 02:38 am
I have put together a very rudimentary 2D animation of the Chandrayaan 2 orbit based on orbit data available from JPL/NASA HORIZONS interface:

Great job.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 08/15/2019 03:43 pm
New data
https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi#top
TRAJECTORY:
  This is a merge of post-launch trajectory solutions fit to tracking data
  through 2019-Aug-14 (post-TLI), with a prediction (released August 14)
  covering the interval August 14 to September 16.

  Trajectory name                             Start (TDB)        Stop (TDB)
  ----------------------------------------- ----------------- -----------------
  ch2o_spk_190722-[190810_od0*]_v*_dsn.V0.* 2019-Jul-22 09:31 2019-Aug-06 10:21
  ch2o_traj_190806-190916_planning_v1_V0.1  2019-Aug-06 10:21 2019-Sep-16 00:00
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 08/16/2019 02:52 am
Capture in the Moon's orbit in 3D
TRAJECTORY:
  This is a merge of post-launch trajectory solutions fit to tracking data
  through 2019-Aug-15 (post-TLI), with a prediction August 15-20.

  Trajectory name                             Start (TDB)        Stop (TDB)
  ----------------------------------------- ----------------- -----------------
  ch2o_spk_190722-[190810_od0*]_v*_dsn.V0.* 2019-Jul-22 09:31 2019-Aug-20 10:21

original 3d graph:
https://plot.ly/~Lamid/9
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: kvsankar on 08/16/2019 07:54 am
I have updated my animation with support to view XY, XZ, and YZ planes. I have also added support to view the orbit relative to Earth or Moon.

http://sankara.net/chandrayaan2.html

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 08/16/2019 10:54 am
I have updated my animation with support to view XY, XZ, and YZ planes.

good idea
Is the orientation correct?
Coordinate Origin [change] :    Geocentric [500]
Coordinate systm: Earth Mean Equator and Equinox of Reference Epoch

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: kvsankar on 08/16/2019 02:04 pm
I am using:

Coordinate systm: Ecliptic and Mean Equinox of Reference Epoch                 


I think that explains the difference you see in orientation.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 08/16/2019 03:21 pm
I am using:
Coordinate systm: Ecliptic and Mean Equinox of Reference Epoch                 

Yes, I understand.
How to choose it on Horizons?
Coordinate Origin [change] :???

Or calculated from ssb(solar system barycenter)?



Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: kvsankar on 08/16/2019 04:27 pm
I use the VECTORS ephemeris type and that in turn uses the Ecliptic and Mean Equinox of Reference Epoch.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 08/16/2019 04:43 pm
I find it:
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 08/16/2019 05:15 pm
Chandrayaan-2 capture in the Moon's orbit:
click for animation
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 08/18/2019 04:53 am
Capturing Chandrayaan-2 at the Moon in equatorial and ecliptical coordinates.
The first image is the equator,
the other three in ecliptic from http://sankara.net/chandrayaan2.html
last is my in ecliptic.
My trajectory 2019-Aug-15 (post-TLI) with a prediction August 15-20
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 08/19/2019 05:05 am
According to TLE 19230.0 18.08.19 00:00 Chandrayaan-2 has an apogeum of 404,876.2 km.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 08/19/2019 05:53 am
ISRO Press Meet on the occasion of Lunar Orbit Insertion of Chandrayaan-2 Mission
A Press Meet will be held at 1100 hrs (11:00 AM) on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 at ISRO Headquarters, New BEL Road, Bengaluru 560094 on ‘Chandrayaan-2 Mission after Lunar Orbit Insertion’.

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/19-aug-2019/isro-press-meet-occasion-of-lunar-orbit-insertion-of-chandrayaan-2-mission
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 08/20/2019 03:54 am
Here's what #Chandrayaan2 will do in the next few mins:

1) At 9.02.21am IST command to ignite the engine. It will be a retro-burn.
2) 1745 secs later #LOI must be achieved
3) Speed to be reduced to 246.37m/sec
4) Propellent consumption 241kg
5) Target Moon orbit: 114.3x18072.1

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChethanKumarTOI
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 08/20/2019 04:33 am
Lunar Orbit Insertion (LOI) maneuver was completed successfully today (August 20, 2019) at 0902 hrs IST as planned, using the onboard propulsion system. The duration of maneuver was 1738 seconds. With this, Chandrayaan-2 was successfully inserted into a Lunar orbit. The orbit achieved is 114 km x 18072 km.


https://www.isro.gov.in/update/20-aug-2019/chandrayaan-2-update-lunar-orbit-insertion
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 08/20/2019 04:36 am
LOI successfull:

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/20-aug-2019/chandrayaan-2-update-lunar-orbit-insertion
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 08/20/2019 07:46 am
ISRO Press Conference following Lunar Orbital Insertion of Chandrayaan-2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZX0-j5lpqQ
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 08/20/2019 09:12 am
Here is a detailed plan from now till Sep 7 when the touchdown happens

Lunar Bound Phase (20 Aug till 1 Sep)

> After the LOI, Chandrayaan-2 has an inclination of 88 Degrees 
> The orbit achieved is 114 km x 18072 km.
> 4 manoeuvres are planned to put the spacecraft around 100km X 100km orbit   
> The manoeuvres will be conducted on August 21 (1 PM IST), 28, 30 and September 1   respectively

Lander Orbiter Separation (2 Sep)

> By Sep 2, Chandrayaan-2 is expected to be in a 114km X 128km orbit when Vikram will separate from orbiter
> A short 3 second health check  will be done on Vikram


Deboosting (3 Sep till 6 Sep)

> On Sep 3, Vikram will perform a de-orbit manoeuvre for 6.5 seconds where its orbit will be  35km X 97km 
> Vikram will need to reach a 30km X 100km orbit
> Here Vikram will achieve the planned inclination of 90 degrees

Powered Descend (7 Sep)

> On Sep 7 at 1.40 am (IST) the powered descent will start 
> Vikram will start its descent from a height of 30 km  (Speed 6120 km/h)
> A little over 10 minutes and 30 seconds later it will be 7.4 km from the  lunar surface  (Speed 526 km/h)
> In next 38 seconds,  it will reach an altitude of 5 Km   from the  lunar surface   (Speed 331 km/h)
> After another 89 seconds, it will reach an altitude of 400 m from the  lunar surface   
> Here Vikram will hover for 12 seconds 
> It again takes 66 seconds to reach to 100 m altitude from the  lunar surface   
> Again it will hover for  for 25 seconds  (Here Vikram decides whether to land or choose  an alternate spot)
> If it decides to land on the original spot, it takes 65 seconds  to reach a height of 10m
> If it decides to land on an alternate spot, it takes 40 seconds to reach an altitude of 60 m and then again drop to 10 m in next 25 seconds

Landing (7 Sep, 1.55 am IST/ 6 Sep, 8:25 pm UTC)

> From a height of 10 m to reach the lunar surface, it will take 13 seconds for a soft touchdown 
> All five of its engines will be firing during this time, till sensors tell them to shut off once all the four legs of the lander touch the surface 
> Moon landing is planned at 1.55 am IST on September 7 ( Sep 6, 8:25 pm UTC)
> Vikram will send back to Earth its first pictures after touchdown some 15 minutes later
> After four hours, Pragyan will crawl out of the lander

Source https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/toireporter/author-Chethan-Kumar-479220652.cms (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/toireporter/author-Chethan-Kumar-479220652.cms)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: sanman on 08/20/2019 01:11 pm
@47:45 in the video I posted just above, Dr Sivan is asked about whether the hardware on the lunar surface could be expected to survive through the lunar night, and to function afterwards. @49:05 he says that the hardware has been qualified for survival, but that this could not be guaranteed.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: abcd_indya on 08/21/2019 03:02 am
It is interesting that after initial sets of pictures that were released, no more pictures have been released considering the importance of this mission. No full view of earth, no selfie, no first pics of moon etc. Was really hoping to see some fantastic images from Chandrayaan-2!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 08/21/2019 08:09 am
Quote
Second Lunar bound orbit maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (August 21, 2019) beginning at 1250 hrs IST as planned, using the onboard propulsion system. The duration of the maneuver was 1228 seconds. The orbit achieved is 118 km x 4412 km.

All spacecraft parameters are normal.

The next Lunar bound orbit maneuver is scheduled on August 28, 2019 between 0530 - 0630 hrs IST.

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/21-aug-2019/chandrayaan-2-update-second-lunar-orbit-maneuver (https://www.isro.gov.in/update/21-aug-2019/chandrayaan-2-update-second-lunar-orbit-maneuver)

Yesterday's orbit after LOI : 114 km x 18072 km.
Today's Orbit after first of the planned 4 Lunar Bound Phase maneuvers : 118 km x 4412 km.
Planned next dates of maneuver : 28 Aug, 30 Aug and 1 Sep
Target to achieve by 2 Sep : 114km X 128km
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 08/21/2019 08:42 am
^
118km x 4412 km : achieved
vs
121km x 4303 km : planned
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 08/21/2019 09:04 am
Planned lunar burns from:

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/14-aug-2019/chandrayaan-2-successfully-enters-lunar-transfer-trajectory

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 08/22/2019 02:10 pm
Moon picture captured by Chandrayaan2

https://twitter.com/isro/status/1164535259561517058 (https://twitter.com/isro/status/1164535259561517058)

High resolution image here
https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/presentation_moon_photo1.png (https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/presentation_moon_photo1.png)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: sturmanskie on 08/23/2019 01:41 am
What could be the reasons for very few photos or videos emerging out of the mission so far? Lack of planning, Energy conservation, lack of cameras or just delay in receipt /processing image data? It is a pity that mission of this magnitude has so few visual records to share with the common man in India.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Phil Stooke on 08/23/2019 03:41 am
The mission has barely started, and now all eyes are on the complex process of getting safely to the surface.  When Vikram lands there should be lots to see.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: abcd_indya on 08/24/2019 07:48 pm
What could be the reasons for very few photos or videos emerging out of the mission so far? Lack of planning, Energy conservation, lack of cameras or just delay in receipt /processing image data? It is a pity that mission of this magnitude has so few visual records to share with the common man in India.

Given that they would have liked to release more pictures and haven't indicates to me that most probably camera alignments within orbit parameters weren't conducive enough to get them. I would have expected a full image of our blue planet, a selfie etc but mission goals definitely trumps PR images...
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Shams on 08/25/2019 09:23 am
https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https://twitter.com/i/topics/tweet/1164535259561517058?cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email&t=1+1566701737929&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&sig=0300973c5727d8542785d09a0eac42fc65412273&iid=8df7074825af412db5a121872c6c0b2d&uid=253672073&nid=244+272699409
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 08/26/2019 04:47 am
https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https://twitter.com/i/topics/tweet/1164535259561517058?cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email&t=1+1566701737929&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&sig=0300973c5727d8542785d09a0eac42fc65412273&iid=8df7074825af412db5a121872c6c0b2d&uid=253672073&nid=244+272699409

Link is not working.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 08/26/2019 07:08 am
Link is pointing to the same one as above (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1982597#msg1982597):

twitter.com/isro/status/1164535259561517058
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: TheVarun on 08/26/2019 01:04 pm
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/26-aug-2019/images-of-lunar-surface-captured-terrain-mapping-camera-2-tmc-2-of-chandrayaan-2

  Many pics of the Moon, many different craters. Have any of these been photographed for the first time?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: JH on 08/26/2019 03:06 pm
LRO has made global maps at 100 m resolution, so nothing in the Chandrayaan-2 images released so far should be unknown. It might discover very small craters later on, as LRO hasn't finished global coverage with its narrow angle camera, which can achieve 0.5 m resolution.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: sanjaykumar on 08/26/2019 05:13 pm
Chandrayaan-2 captures multiple craters on Moon


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/70846515.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
 (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/70846515.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 08/28/2019 04:22 am
Quote
August 28, 2019

Third Lunar Orbit Maneuver
Third Lunar bound orbit maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (August 28, 2019) beginning at 0904 hrs IST, using the onboard propulsion system. The duration of the maneuver was 1190 seconds. The orbit achieved is 179 km x 1412 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The next Lunar bound orbit maneuver is scheduled on August 30, 2019 between 1800 - 1900 hrs IST.

ISRO update for 3rd lunar burn.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 08/28/2019 04:27 am
179km x 1412km -achieved
Vs
178km x 1411km -planned

!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 08/30/2019 01:57 pm
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1167426278862929920 (https://twitter.com/isro/status/1167426278862929920)

Quote from: ISRO
#ISRO
Fourth Lunar bound orbit maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (August 30, 2019) at 1818 hrs IST.

For details please visit https://bit.ly/2L7UuKo
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 08/30/2019 02:01 pm
Chandrayaan-2 update: Fourth Lunar Orbit Maneuver (https://www.isro.gov.in/update/30-aug-2019/chandrayaan-2-update-fourth-lunar-orbit-maneuver)

Quote
Fourth Lunar bound orbit maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (August 30, 2019) beginning at 1818 hrs IST as planned, using the onboard propulsion system. The duration of the maneuver was 1155 seconds. The orbit achieved is 124 km x 164 km.

All spacecraft parameters are normal.

The next Lunar bound orbit maneuver is scheduled on September 01, 2019 between 1800 - 1900 hrs IST.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 09/01/2019 07:10 am
What happens during Lander-Orbiter Separation (Currently planned @ 12.10 am IST on 3 Sep)


> After successful manoeuvre on August 30 and September 1, the integrated spacecraft has reached an orbit ideal for separation

> On Monday (02 Sep), after the integrated spacecraft is stabilized in an orbit ideal for separation— which is estimated to be 121km X 125km— ISRO will load the sequence of commands for the separation, which will then be autonomously executed by the onboard systems

> The cylindrical structure on top of the orbiter— the extension of the fuel tank— is where the lander with the rover inside it is sitting. Both these modules are held together by clamps with two bolts

> Two halves of a metal flat spring are used to hold orbiter and lander. The springs are pre-loaded using two bolts. These bolts will be sheared(using pyrotechnic bolt cutter) and once these two bolts are cut the lander gets released

>This system has high strength and stiffness when clamped and releases quickly—typically in less than 50 milliseconds when command is given. Both of these operational characteristics are considered very important

> The separation itself will take only a fraction of a second.

> Generally, the timing for manoeuvre isn’t finalized until the day of the operation. We have estimates and sometimes a manoeuvre can be carried out a few hours before our first estimate and sometimes it may be a few hours after our first estimate

> Once the separation is successful, India will only be less than a week away from Moon landing, which is scheduled for 1.55am on September 7

> On September 3, a day after the separation, the mission control center in Bengaluru will run a ‘health check’ on Vikram and on September 4, Isro will do a de-orbit manoeuvre for 6.5 seconds to put Vikram in the lunar landing mode.

> We will check the parameters when the lander is in a 35km x 97km orbit. At 1.40am on September 7, the powered descent will start, and at about 1.55am, the lander will make the touchdown

Source: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-isro-readies-for-landing-module-separation/articleshow/70929834.cms (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-isro-readies-for-landing-module-separation/articleshow/70929834.cms)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 09/01/2019 01:24 pm
The fifth lunar burn done:

https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-latest-updates

Quote
September 01, 2019

Fifth Lunar Orbit Maneuver

The final and fifth Lunar bound orbit maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (September 01, 2019) beginning at 1821 hrs IST as planned, using the onboard propulsion system. The duration of the maneuver was 52 seconds. The orbit achieved is 119 km x 127 km.

All spacecraft parameters are normal.

The next operation is the separation of Vikram Lander from Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter, which is scheduled on September 02, 2019, between 1245 – 1345 hrs (IST). Following this, there will be two deorbit maneuvers of Vikram Lander to prepare for its landing in the south polar region of the moon.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 09/01/2019 01:31 pm
^
119 km x 127 km -achieved
vs
114 km x 128 km -planned
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 09/01/2019 03:48 pm
upcoming events (from ISRO update page):
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: sturmanskie on 09/02/2019 08:05 am
Lander separation successful.

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/02-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-update-vikram-lander-successfully-separates-orbiter (https://www.isro.gov.in/update/02-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-update-vikram-lander-successfully-separates-orbiter)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: starbase on 09/02/2019 09:04 am
Separation of Vikram/Pragyan from Chandrayaan 2 orbiter happened on time at 7:15 UTC.

Source: https://twitter.com/isro/status/1168433881109819392
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Vikranth on 09/02/2019 09:10 am
Vikram Lander has successfully separated from the orbiter.
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/02-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-update-vikram-lander-successfully-separates-orbiter
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Vikranth on 09/02/2019 09:12 am
Also ISRO invites media for the coverage of Chandrayaan-2 landing.
Landing from 1:30 AM IST (8:00 PM UTC Sept 6 )onwards on Sept 7
Also coverage of Pragyan rover rolling out from the lander will also be there from 5:30 AM IST (12:00 AM UTC Sept 7)
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/02-sep-2019/live-media-coverage-of-landing-of-chandrayaan-2-lunar-surface
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: TheVarun on 09/02/2019 01:41 pm
 Would all the orbiter's payloads, or some of them, be operational?  The orbiter is now in its permanent orbit.
 
 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: russianhalo117 on 09/02/2019 02:16 pm
Would all the orbiter's payloads, or some of them, now be operational?  The orbiter is now in its permanent orbit.
 
 
Commissioning phase i think is underway.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 09/02/2019 02:52 pm
Would all the orbiter's payloads, or some of them, now be operational?  The orbiter is now in its permanent orbit.
 
 

At the very least,  the "High Resolution Camera" will be switched on to image the landing site. The images will then be downloaded into the lander.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 09/03/2019 03:58 am
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1168732973283196929 (https://twitter.com/isro/status/1168732973283196929)

Quote from: ISRO
#ISRO
The first de-orbit maneuver for #VikramLander of #Chandrayaan2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (September 03, 2019) at 0850 hrs IST.

For details please visit https://bit.ly/2lA9NkF

Here's view of Control Centre at ISTRAC, Bengaluru
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 09/03/2019 04:00 am
Quote from: ISRO
The first de-orbiting maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (September 03, 2019) beginning at 0850 hrs IST as planned, using the onboard propulsion system. The duration of the maneuver was 4 seconds.

The orbit of Vikram Lander is 104 km x 128 km. Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter continues to orbit the Moon in the existing orbit and both the Orbiter and Lander are healthy.

The next de-orbiting maneuver is scheduled on September 04, 2019 between 0330 - 0430 hrs IST.

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/03-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-update-first-de-orbiting-maneuver (https://www.isro.gov.in/update/03-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-update-first-de-orbiting-maneuver)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 09/03/2019 04:33 pm
snippets have started on Nat Geo India Channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKh8M-TEhL0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKh8M-TEhL0)

And they seem to have put Apollo lander on Chandrayaan Orbiter in above video and 3 solar panels on Orbiter instead of 2!. "Artistic Representation"  :)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Sam Ho on 09/03/2019 10:58 pm
Quote
Sep 04, 2019
Chandrayaan-2 update: Second de-orbiting maneuver
The second de-orbiting maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (September 04, 2019) beginning at 0342 hrs IST as planned, using the onboard propulsion system. The duration of the maneuver was 9 seconds.

The orbit of Vikram Lander is 35 km x 101 km. Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter continues to orbit the Moon in an orbit of 96 km x 125 km and both the Orbiter and Lander are healthy.

With this maneuver the required orbit for the Vikram Lander to commence it descent towards the surface of the Moon is achieved. The Lander is scheduled to powered descent between 0100 - 0200 hrs IST on September 07, 2019, which is then followed by touch down of Lander between 0130 - 0230 hrs IST
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/04-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-update-second-de-orbiting-maneuver
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: sturmanskie on 09/04/2019 12:11 am
A newbie question here - Has orbiter also been deorbited? From what was originally 119 km x 127 km to 96 km x 125 km? or is this wobble within the acceptable band of error as far as space orbits go?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Vikranth on 09/04/2019 02:08 am
A newbie question here - Has orbiter also been deorbited? From what was originally 119 km x 127 km to 96 km x 125 km? or is this wobble within the acceptable band of error as far as space orbits go?
Orbiter was to be put in an orbit of 100 X 100 km and it is in the process of doing that.Only the lander has been put into an orbiter 0f 35 x 101 km.Real deorbit of lander happens an hour before landing.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: seshagirib on 09/04/2019 03:38 am
Chandrayaan 2's Planned Landing Most Complex In ISRO History: Ex-Chairman


https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/chandrayaan-2s-planned-landing-most-complex-in-isro-history-ex-chairman-2095061
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/04/2019 04:48 pm
The sun will rise on the landing site later today.  I hope we will see images soon.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Astro_Neel on 09/04/2019 08:05 pm
A newbie question here - Has orbiter also been deorbited? From what was originally 119 km x 127 km to 96 km x 125 km? or is this wobble within the acceptable band of error as far as space orbits go?

Yes, they've made an unannounced manoeuvre on the orbiter with a 36-second burn so as to ensure that the Orbiter passes right overhead the lander when the touchdown happens.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2s-second-de-orbiting-maneuver-executed-isro/articleshow/70969698.cms

Quote
Further, Isro also carried out another manoeuvre of the orbiter on Tuesday, which the space agency did not officially announce. Sources said that the orbiter’s orbit was further reduced after a 36-second burn of the onboard propulsion systems. The orbiter reduced the distance closest to the moon to reach an orbit where the perigee was 96 km. "This was done so that the orbiter is right on the head of the lander when the landing happens", a source added.

I'm guessing this could have been done possibly to photograph the exact location of the lander from above using the OHRC. Or to ensure they have an extra route of communication available with the lander (i.e. via Orbiter) for redundancy in case there's any LOS directly with the lander.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Vikranth on 09/05/2019 05:03 am
Livestream of Chandrayaan 2 landing by DD National.
Starting tommorow 6 PM UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2srV-bEi_DU
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/05/2019 08:45 am
Orbiter ephemeris:
https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons_batch.cgi?batch=1&MAKE_EPHEM=%27YES%27&TABLE_TYPE=%27VECTORS%27&OUT_UNITS=%27KM-S%27&REF_SYSTEM=%27J2000%27&VEC_LABELS=%27YES%27&CSV_FORMAT=%27YES%27&OBJ_DATA=%27YES%27&VEC_TABLE=%273%27&STEP_SIZE=%2710m%27&START_TIME=%272019-9-5%2000:00%27&STOP_TIME=%272019-Sep-07%2008:40%27&COMMAND=%27-152%27&CENTER=%27@301%27

Lander ephemeris:
https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons_batch.cgi?batch=1&MAKE_EPHEM=%27YES%27&TABLE_TYPE=%27VECTORS%27&OUT_UNITS=%27KM-S%27&REF_SYSTEM=%27J2000%27&VEC_LABELS=%27YES%27&CSV_FORMAT=%27YES%27&OBJ_DATA=%27YES%27&VEC_TABLE=%273%27&STEP_SIZE=%2710m%27&START_TIME=%272019-9-5%2000:00%27&STOP_TIME=%272019-Sep-07%2008:40%27&COMMAND=%27-153%27&CENTER=%27@301%27

All available objects on NASA Horizons:
https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons_batch.cgi?batch=1&COMMAND=%27*%27&CENTER=%27@*%27
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/05/2019 09:59 am
Livestream of Chandrayaan 2 landing by DD National.
Starting tommorow 6 PM UTC

Says 19:30 UTC to me, which is 55 minutes before the landing.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 09/05/2019 03:08 pm
All about Vikram Lander and Landing !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcAScK5lddw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcAScK5lddw)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 09/05/2019 03:10 pm
Watch Live Vikram Landing @ 1:10 AM IST Sep 7 (7:40 PM UTC Sep 6)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iqNTeZAq-c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iqNTeZAq-c)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Ken the Bin on 09/05/2019 03:21 pm
Livestream of Chandrayaan 2 landing by DD National.
Starting tommorow 6 PM UTC

Says 19:30 UTC to me, which is 55 minutes before the landing.
That's the beginning of the window for the powered descent (19:30 to 20:30 UTC).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: PahTo on 09/05/2019 03:33 pm
All about Vikram Lander and Landing !!

Nice video--thanks for posting (and the other one too).  Minor nit:  "braking" is correct--let's hope the s/c is not "breaking" on descent!  :)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Shams on 09/05/2019 05:00 pm
Nice video
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 09/06/2019 05:25 am
> Vikram will decide on the exact landing spot on Moon when it would be 100m above the lunar surface between 1.30 am and 2.30 am (IST) on Saturday
> Isro had chosen a primary landing site and a secondary one
> Primary landing site in turn has 2 zones of 500 m X 500 m separated by 1.6 Km where Sun's elevation is more than 6 degrees
> Vikram has been taking pictures of the preferred landing sites since Tuesday
> Chandrayaan-2's preferred landing site is between two craters, Manzinus and Simpelius, about 350km north of Moon's south pole.


Source: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/100m-above-moon-vikram-will-pick-final-landing-spot/articleshow/71000912.cms (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/100m-above-moon-vikram-will-pick-final-landing-spot/articleshow/71000912.cms)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h87hLynFiaQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h87hLynFiaQ)

Reference Landing Site (Credit: https://abaaonline.blogspot.com (https://abaaonline.blogspot.com)) and landing profile from an earlier post
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: jebbo on 09/06/2019 06:04 am
When should this move over to the science missions page?

--- Tony
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Phillip Clark on 09/06/2019 06:13 am
When should this move over to the science missions page?
--- Tony

When/if a soft-landing is accomplished.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: lamid on 09/06/2019 06:43 am
Horizons added the Vikram orbit.
The first picture arrives Chandrayaan-2 to the Moon,
the second picture Vikram orbit and the place where the landing sequence begins:
Trajectory name                             Start (TDB)        Stop (TDB)
  ----------------------------------------- ----------------- -----------------
  ch2o_spk_190722-[190810_od0*]_v*_dsn.V0.* 2019-Jul-22 09:31 2019-Sep-08 16:31
*******************************************************************************
 Trajectory name                             Start (TDB)        Stop (TDB)
  ----------------------------------------- ----------------- -----------------
  ch2o_spk_190722-[190810_od0*]_v*_dsn.V0.* 2019-Jul-22 09:31 2019-Sep-02 07:46
  ch2l_spk_190902-[190905_od9*]_v*_dsn.V0.* 2019-Sep-02 07:46 2019-Sep-07 00:00
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 09/06/2019 06:50 am
Criteria used for final landing site selection

> Slope less than 15 deg.
> Boulders less than 0.5 meter.
> Crater and boulder distribution.
> Sunlit for at least 14 days.
> Visible to Earth for Radio communication (i.e. on the near side)
> Local terrain features such that they don’t shadow the site for long durations
> The Lander must also touch down on terrain which is not in shadow

Potential Landing Site
SLS54 (Prime Site)      70.90267  S 22.78110 E
ALS01 (Alternate Site) 67.874064 S 18.46947 W

Source : https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2018/pdf/1975.pdf (https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2018/pdf/1975.pdf)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/06/2019 06:51 am
The Moon landing site video in Chota's post above (reply #826) is atrocious - not Chota's fault, I'm sure.  The sites look like they are in about the right pattern but they are not properly registered with the background image.  There are lots of good site maps out there these days.  Don't use that one!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 08:08 am
Horizons added the Vikram orbit.
The first picture arrives Chandrayaan-2 to the Moon,
Found an automatic plotter of Horizons data:
http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/3d/space-explorer-tracker.html?orbiter=-152&body=301

http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/3d/space-explorer-tracker.html?orbiter=-153&body=301
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 09/06/2019 11:51 am
Meet Pragyan the rover !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9LFnEycVcg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9LFnEycVcg)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: nzguy on 09/06/2019 12:44 pm
@chota these videos are great! I love the detail and easy to follow mission plan. The music is also really catchy.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 09/06/2019 01:16 pm
Tentative plan (All times IST)

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1169899242569158658 (https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1169899242569158658)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/06/2019 01:40 pm
Tentative plan (All times IST)

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1169899242569158658 (https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1169899242569158658)

Timeline in UTC:

20:08 "Rough" braking burn (30 km altitude)
20:18 "Fine" braking burn (7.4 km altitude)
20:20 Start of terminal guidance navigation
20:22 First picture from descent camera
20:23 Touchdown
22:23 Deployment of rover ramp
22:53 Rover power up
23:33 Rover solar panel deployment
23:49 Start of rover roll off
23:59 Rover roll down onto lunar surface
00:15 Rover takes picture of lander
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 09/06/2019 01:44 pm
Will this thread be moved to "Live Events" section?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: TheVarun on 09/06/2019 01:45 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bazGdtJUCjU

Very intelligent and informative, though long, discussion on Chandrayaan-2, including the Vikram lander
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: sanjaykumar on 09/06/2019 01:56 pm

@ANI Hyderabad, Telangana: Ganesha Pandal inspired by #Chandrayaan2 installed in the city. A 5 feet tall Ganesha idol is placed inside miniature satellite of 23.5 feet length. #GaneshaChaturthi

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-landing-live-updates-isro-moon-mission-to-land-on-lunar-surface/liveblog/71006122.cms
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/06/2019 02:03 pm
Landing attempt article by Tyler Gray:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2019/09/isro-first-lunar-landing-chandrayaan-2/

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1169974291632463872
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Comga on 09/06/2019 06:35 pm
Livestream of Chandrayaan 2 landing by DD National.
Starting tommorow 6 PM UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2srV-bEi_DU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2srV-bEi_DU)
The countdown says 30 minutes from now.
Isn’t that 1900= 7 PM UTC?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: chota on 09/06/2019 06:39 pm
All channels in India are showing some program or the other on chandrayaan2

You can watch live here for example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6VmPU6Us00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6VmPU6Us00)

Most channels are showing split screens, one screen for their program and other screen some live feed from ISRO control center

Today here everyone is a space scientist  :)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: chota on 09/06/2019 06:52 pm
Here is the live stream from official TV channel of India

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2srV-bEi_DU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2srV-bEi_DU)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: chota on 09/06/2019 07:00 pm
Control Center View
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 07:07 pm
Current India time (GMT+5:30, European Time +3:30):
https://www.google.com/search?q=ist+india+time&rlz=1C1ASUM_enIT857IT858&oq=ist+india+time&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60j69i65l2j69i60j69i65.2070j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


Timeline:
IST   GMT      CET   
01.38.00   20.08.00   22.08.00   Rough braking start (30 km)                   
01.48.00   20.18.00   22.18.00   Fine brake starting (7.4 km)                   
01.50.00   20.20.00   22.20.00   Local navigation start                         
01.52.00   20.22.00   22.22.00   First image of Moon surface sent to Earth     
01.53.00   20.23.00   22.23.00   Vikram lander lunar touchdown                 
03.53.00   22.23.00   00.23.00   Rover Pragyan ramp deployment                 
04.23.00   22.53.00   00.53.00   Pragyan ON                                     
05.03.00   23.33.00   01.33.00   Pragya solar panel deployment                 
05.19.00   23.49.00   01.49.00   Pragyan rover roll down                       
05.29.00   23.59.00   01.59.00   Pragyan rover touchdown                       
05.45.00   00.15.00   02.15.00   Vikram imaging by Pragyan 
                   


https://english.jagran.com/india/chandrayaan2-moon-landing-lunar-touchdown-at-153-am-moon-mission-timeline-for-next-few-hours-10004158
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: A.K. on 09/06/2019 07:11 pm
I'm still wondering whether Vikram is landing on near side or far side of the Moon.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 - GSLV MkIII - July 22, 2019 (09:13 UTC)
Post by: chota on 09/06/2019 07:12 pm
The Moon landing site video in Chota's post above (reply #826) is atrocious - not Chota's fault, I'm sure.  The sites look like they are in about the right pattern but they are not properly registered with the background image.  There are lots of good site maps out there these days.  Don't use that one!

Is this OK :-)
Credit: https://thewire.in/space/chandrayaan-2-live-blog-updates-expert-commentary-of-a-historic-mission (https://thewire.in/space/chandrayaan-2-live-blog-updates-expert-commentary-of-a-historic-mission)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: chota on 09/06/2019 07:17 pm
Here is a live expert commentary by Jatan Mehta (@uncertainquark), a science writer and the former science officer at TeamIndus Moon Mission.

https://thewire.in/space/chandrayaan-2-live-blog-updates-expert-commentary-of-a-historic-mission (https://thewire.in/space/chandrayaan-2-live-blog-updates-expert-commentary-of-a-historic-mission)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 07:25 pm
I'm still wondering whether Vikram is landing on near side or far side of the Moon.
Live view:
(https://i.imgur.com/vwYcd7e.png)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZiJMW5AdHY
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: seawolfe on 09/06/2019 07:27 pm
I'm still wondering whether Vikram is landing on near side or far side of the Moon.

More near where the Lunar Aussie's are at, I suppose.  ;D
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 07:31 pm
DD coverage has started. ISRO stream has begun with title screen.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: chota on 09/06/2019 07:33 pm
Over to you Steven and welcome sanman  :)

Closer to 2 am (IST) is the reworked landing time: Sources
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sanman on 09/06/2019 07:36 pm
Gee, I hope this works - fingers crossed  :D
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 07:36 pm
Landing coverage has started.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 07:38 pm
Students attending the landing.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 07:39 pm
Other VIP's.

T-29 minutes to ignition.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 07:41 pm
Roomy and modern control room.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: chota on 09/06/2019 07:41 pm
Landing Events
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 07:41 pm
Image of Earth from lander.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/06/2019 07:43 pm
25 mins.

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1170059569139212290
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 07:44 pm
T-25 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/06/2019 07:48 pm
Milestone clock is to engine start.

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1170061139339894785
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 07:48 pm
T-20 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 07:50 pm
Trajectory and landing site.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 07:54 pm
T-15 minutes. PM arriving.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 07:55 pm
Showing a model of the lander.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 07:55 pm
Countdown:
http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/chandrayaan2/chandrayaan2-countdowns.html
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/06/2019 07:57 pm
10 mins to descent engine ignition.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 07:59 pm
T-10 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 08:03 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/554OzFT.png)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:04 pm
T-5 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:07 pm
T-2 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:08 pm
T-1 minute.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/06/2019 08:08 pm
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:09 pm
Ignition!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/06/2019 08:09 pm
Descent operation started.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/06/2019 08:09 pm
Video clip of Phase 1

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1170066549203439617
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:10 pm
T+1 minute.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 08:10 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/rEYBY4p.png)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:10 pm
T+2 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/06/2019 08:11 pm
Rough braking to last for 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 08:11 pm
Next:
(https://i.imgur.com/fo8pUZ9.png)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 08:11 pm
140 m/s expected at the end of the rough braking phase.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:12 pm
T+3 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:12 pm
T+4 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:14 pm
T+5 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/06/2019 08:14 pm
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:14 pm
T+6 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 08:15 pm
760 m/s.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 08:15 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/JmAu71G.png)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:16 pm
T+7 minutes. Good trajectory.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:16 pm
T+8 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:18 pm
T+9 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 08:19 pm
Image download online.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:19 pm
T+10 minutes. Into fine braking phase.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 08:19 pm
Rough braking phase completed successfully!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:20 pm
T+11 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/06/2019 08:20 pm
Vertical decent operation started.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:21 pm
T+12 minutes. Trajectory deviating.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 08:21 pm
Lost TM?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: meekGee on 09/06/2019 08:21 pm
uh oh?  Graph looked bad there for a minute
Yeah hopefully just bad data point, extrapolation, etc.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:21 pm
T+13 minutes.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/06/2019 08:22 pm
Don't like the look of this:

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1170069633526665216
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: redliox on 09/06/2019 08:22 pm
Not liking this silence...  :(
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:23 pm
T+14 minutes. Silence.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: ejb749 on 09/06/2019 08:23 pm
Chandrayaan Crater?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/06/2019 08:24 pm
LOS? No signal from lander. No signal from Madrid.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: dsmillman on 09/06/2019 08:24 pm
On JPL DSN display data rate went to 0 bps.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:24 pm
T+15 minutes. Should have landed by now. Not looking good.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sanman on 09/06/2019 08:24 pm
No signal?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/06/2019 08:24 pm
No signal.
https://twitter.com/cgbassa/status/1170069676589834242/photo/1
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:26 pm
Not receiving data.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:28 pm
ISRO chairman briefing PM.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 08:29 pm
My network completely disappeared for 5 minutes.  :'(
Didn't see anything.
Landed?
Crashed?!?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: TrevorMonty on 09/06/2019 08:30 pm
Chandrayaan Crater?
Not total loss, they still have orbiter that should produce a year's worth of data.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 08:30 pm
Seems they were consoling the chairman after he briefed the PM.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: tea monster on 09/06/2019 08:31 pm
Looks like it augered in.  :-[
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/06/2019 08:31 pm
https://twitter.com/cgbassa/status/1170070679250714624
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: JimO on 09/06/2019 08:31 pm
final descent deviation?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:32 pm
Middle screen saying "Standby for live images."
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 08:33 pm
Don't like the look of this:

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1170069633526665216 (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1170069633526665216)

If we consider a freefall from that altitude, it's 294 m/s at touchdown, or 1000 km/h.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:34 pm
Explaining something to a previous chairman.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: gaballard on 09/06/2019 08:34 pm
Looked like it was tumbling end-over-end before LOS. Sounds like they lost attitude control during the fine braking phase...
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: wannamoonbase on 09/06/2019 08:36 pm
Figure it out and fly again.

Everything was right down the center, until it wasn't.

India will solve the problem and nail this.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: haywoodfloyd on 09/06/2019 08:36 pm
First attempts are always difficult.
Looks like it was a good try.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:38 pm
"RF confirmed from orbiter. Receiving data."
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: tolis on 09/06/2019 08:38 pm
and more testing please.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sanman on 09/06/2019 08:39 pm
Ah well, these things happen.

Looking forward to hearing about a re-try.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Phillip Clark on 09/06/2019 08:40 pm
Figure it out and fly again.
Everything was right down the center, until it wasn't.
India will solve the problem and nail this.

These aren't the days of Russia's Lunas or the US Rangers and Surveyors.   There is no longer a production line of spacecraft so that another mission can be quickly prepared.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Sam Ho on 09/06/2019 08:41 pm
Last telemetry frame, as seen in several screenshots above:
Altitude 335m, Velocity 48.1m/s horizontal, 59.0 m/s vertical, range 1.09km
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:41 pm
Fortunately, ISRO still has the orbiter to investigate the Moon with.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: abhishek on 09/06/2019 08:41 pm
Ah well, these things happen.

Looking forward to hearing about a re-try.

It's very heart breaking and soul crushing for us as after 10 years of development and many precautionary measures and design changes this has happened. :-X
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Rocket Science on 09/06/2019 08:43 pm
A fine effort, nothing to be ashamed of... Collect your data, fix the problem and have at it again!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: seawolfe on 09/06/2019 08:43 pm
 
Ah well, these things happen.

Looking forward to hearing about a re-try.

It's very heart breaking and soul crushing for us as after 10 years of development and many precautionary measures and design changes this has happened. :-X

The Israeli's know what you're feeling.  :'(
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Bananas_on_Mars on 09/06/2019 08:44 pm
Fortunately, ISRO still has the orbiter to investigate the Moon with.

Do we know how long it will be until the Orbiter will pass over the Landung/impact site?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 08:45 pm
My condolences to ISRO's workers, who have worked so tirelessly for so long for this mission, and to the Indian people who enthusiastically cheered on throughout the journey. It is a loss for all Humanity. Hopefully a retry can be funded and performed successfully with few changes. Landings are unforgivingly quick and deviously precise events.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 08:47 pm
ISRO Chairman: Vikram lander descent was nominal and as planned up to an altitude of 2.1 km. Subsequently, the communications with the lander were lost. Data is being analyzed.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/06/2019 08:48 pm
Looks like ISRO chairman is in tears.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:48 pm
ISRO chairman explaining current status. Had a signal down to 2.1 km. Data is currently being analysed.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:51 pm
PM with chairman.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:52 pm
PM saying some words. "Hope for the best."
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: tolis on 09/06/2019 08:53 pm
it would be interesting to know if a stable hover attitude was established before the trouble began.
I presume this is not something one can easily test on Earth.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 08:54 pm
Fortunately, ISRO still has the orbiter to investigate the Moon with.

Do we know how long it will be until the Orbiter will pass over the Landung/impact site?
These are raw ephemeris from NASA Horizons, don't know if it is possible to calculate lat/lon of orbiter:
https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons_batch.cgi?batch=1&MAKE_EPHEM=%27YES%27&TABLE_TYPE=%27VECTORS%27&OUT_UNITS=%27KM-S%27&REF_SYSTEM=%27J2000%27&VEC_LABELS=%27YES%27&CSV_FORMAT=%27YES%27&OBJ_DATA=%27YES%27&VEC_TABLE=%273%27&STEP_SIZE=%2710m%27&START_TIME=%272019-9-6%2000:00%27&STOP_TIME=%272019-Sep-09%2016:31%27&COMMAND=%27-152%27&CENTER=%27@301%27
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 08:54 pm

PM with chairman.


With those "taps" on the shoulder, he certainly did all he could to pull him up from his sadness  :o
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:55 pm
Looking at the data.

PM talking to the students.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 08:56 pm
it would be interesting to know if a stable hover attitude was established before the trouble began.
I presume this is not something one can easily test on Earth.

That was supposed to happen at 400 m, so probably not.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:57 pm
PM listening to a question from one of the students.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 08:59 pm
PM taking photo with the students.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sanman on 09/06/2019 08:59 pm
Prime Minister Modi is saying that what matters most are higher goals, and that moments like these are just steps along the way.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 09:00 pm
PM getting into his car, with security looking on.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/06/2019 09:02 pm
End of webcast.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sanman on 09/06/2019 09:04 pm
The Prime Minister has expressed his appreciation to ISRO scientists, saying that we should continue to go boldly forward, and that he gives his full support and the entire country is with them.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: A.K. on 09/06/2019 09:06 pm
Ah well, these things happen.

Looking forward to hearing about a re-try.

It's very heart breaking and soul crushing for us as after 10 years of development and many precautionary measures and design changes this has happened. :-X

The Israeli's know what you're feeling.  :'(
Both are completely different missions in all aspects.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 09:08 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/x0zG9Dl.png)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: chota on 09/06/2019 09:17 pm
Any idea if the 2 lines are tolerance bands. There is a deviation, but looks like within planned tolerance  per above display?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 09:17 pm
From the screencap in this tweet (whose interpretation I think is erroneous, but the image is objective): https://twitter.com/DJSnM/status/1170072361804034049 (https://twitter.com/DJSnM/status/1170072361804034049)

Looks like vx=48 m/s; vy=58 m/s were reached at ~1 km altitude.

Still a reduction from the parameters at 2 km, so the lander kept fighting somehow.

Maybe a case reminiscent to Beresheet's (IMU trouble), just with more time to try to recover in that case (14 km vs 2)?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 09:19 pm
Can speeds be calculated from these data?
(https://i.imgur.com/QgvMf5W.png)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 09:20 pm
Can speeds be calculated from these data?

Probably the wiggles show the tumbling and consequently oscillatory-like Dopplers?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: tolis on 09/06/2019 09:21 pm
some hope for the laser retroreflector surviving the impact?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/06/2019 09:31 pm
some hope for the laser retroreflector surviving the impact?

Could be, if Vikram somehow managed to overcome its troubles in the last few seconds of descent (as the last bits of the Doppler curve appear to show, with a constant slope consistent with the previous one after the wiggles, see attached image) and somehow reduce the 270 km/h velocity it had at 1 km altitude to something more survivable in not too small pieces. Still, the chances of it (i) breaking free from the lander and not ending up inside its wreckage, (ii) falling in a visible orientation and (iii) not being buried by regolith or ejecta, would be quite small.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: hektor on 09/06/2019 09:32 pm
I hope there were no tardigrades on board.

Joke aside, congratulations to India for trying to push the envelope. I am sure there will be another attempt.

... and they still have the Orbiter.

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: illectro on 09/06/2019 09:34 pm
From the screencap in this tweet (whose interpretation I think is erroneous, but the image is objective):
Looks like vx=48 m/s; vy=58 m/s were reached at ~1 km altitude.
The 1km in the telemetry window is not altitude, it's downrange distance, the only altitude on display was on another window.

Of course if the TV producer hadn't been cutting between cameras incessantly we might have more data to extrapolate from.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sanman on 09/06/2019 09:36 pm
From the Prime Minister

https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status/1170080152895643648

From the Home Minister

https://twitter.com/AmitShah/status/1170086652385071105
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: abhishek on 09/06/2019 09:38 pm
I hope there were no tardigrades on board.

Joke aside, congratulations to India for trying to push the envelope. I am sure there will be another attempt.

... and they still have the Orbiter.

Unlikely....most space mission has two objectives,one scientific and the other political .With Nasa's Artemis launching as early as 2024 the purpose of sending a rover mission would be lost completely
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 09:40 pm
Orbiter should pass over landing position within 1 hour... possibly... if it didn't deviate from last NASA Horizons ephemeris (https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons_batch.cgi?batch=1&MAKE_EPHEM=%27YES%27&TABLE_TYPE=%27VECTORS%27&OUT_UNITS=%27KM-S%27&REF_SYSTEM=%27J2000%27&VEC_LABELS=%27YES%27&CSV_FORMAT=%27YES%27&OBJ_DATA=%27YES%27&VEC_TABLE=%273%27&STEP_SIZE=%271m%27&START_TIME=%272019-9-6%2019:30%27&STOP_TIME=%272019-Sep-06%2023:00%27&COMMAND=%27-152%27&CENTER=%27@301%27) and if it was actually over landing site at time of landing, and if orbital plane does not change too much from an orbit to another, and if....

(https://i.imgur.com/9Y8IsSA.png)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: hektor on 09/06/2019 09:50 pm

Unlikely....most space mission has two objectives,one scientific and the other political .With Nasa's Artemis launching as early as 2024 the purpose of sending a rover mission would be lost completely

Well first Artemis has to indeed happen. But also I fail to see why other space powers (China, Russia, India, Japan, South Korea...) would cease to perform Lunar robotic missions when it happens.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: prakshepak on 09/06/2019 09:59 pm
Looks like in bid to reduce horizontal velocity it gained vertical velocity. How did the lander reduce horizontal vel. While spacecraft in vertical attitude? Did the lander had rcs system? Or it tilted a little to cancel horizontal vel?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/06/2019 10:02 pm
Is anybody able to calculate speed from doppler chart using this site?
I get impossible values...
https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/doppler-effect
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: abhishek on 09/06/2019 10:05 pm

Unlikely....most space mission has two objectives,one scientific and the other political .With Nasa's Artemis launching as early as 2024 the purpose of sending a rover mission would be lost completely

Well first Artemis has to indeed happen. But also I fail to see why other space powers (China, Russia, India, Japan, South Korea...) would cease to perform Lunar robotic missions when it happens.

If Indeed Artemis happens within the said timeline,then sending a chandrayaan 2 type mission makes no sense other than wasting time and money.ISRO has many other priorities like the human space flight program,the adityla L1 solar mission ,Reusable launch vehicle program etc etc.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Bob Shaw on 09/06/2019 10:35 pm
Space is hard. The answer is to keep trying!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/06/2019 10:38 pm
Not wasting time and money.  You do it to learn how to do it.  Also it will go to a different place than the 2024 Artemis landing ( IF it happens) so different information is collected.   Meanwhile here is a map of all landings and impacts updated to today.  (EDIT: the Vikram coordinates should read 70.9° S, 22.78° E (at least that was the ellipse center) - will correct when I can)

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: PM3 on 09/06/2019 10:42 pm
Unlikely....most space mission has two objectives,one scientific and the other political .With Nasa's Artemis launching as early as 2024 the purpose of sending a rover mission would be lost completely

ISRO already is planning Chandrayaan-3 for a while, it will be a joint mission with JAXA (https://www.asianage.com/opinion/oped/160619/chandrayaan-2-will-be-the-stepping-stone-for-human-landing-on-the-moon.html). It was tentatively scheduled for 2024 (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/after-mars-venus-on-isros-planetary-travel-list/articleshow/69381185.cms), but that is under review. Don't think that it depends on Artemis in any way. Soviet Union also kept sending their "Luna" landers to the Moon while NASA sent Apollo crew.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/06/2019 11:30 pm
Highly unprofessional behavior by Pallava Bagla, NDTV journalist. He's shouting at ISRO PRO demanding ISRO chairman to come out and "face press" (2:35 onwards):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjPl_sK7Aio
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/07/2019 12:49 am
Million rupee question: Does ISRO have back-up parts of all key components of the lander and rover completed, maybe even assembled, to make a second try relatively quickly (say within 2 years) if possible? While it is less of a norm than it used to be, some agencies still do back-up spacecraft for such missions to different extents (in the case of the Chinese, one each for lunar orbiters, landers/rovers and the upcoming sample return mission).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eric z on 09/07/2019 01:10 am
 Penguin makes a great point that I have been wondering about for awhile now. If an entity is going thru all the trouble to make a probe in the first place---why the hell not make 2 or 3 and have a back-up, and/or the ability to quickly follow up on an interesting issue raised on the first mission? Worked out great for  Mariner, Viking, Voyager, Ranger, Surveyor. We've mutated into a very penny-wise yet pound-foolish society.   
  Congrats to the ISRO for a great effort! Better luck next time.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2019 02:39 am
Don't know what he's saying, but assume it's to confirm the lander is lost.

https://twitter.com/isro/status/1170162438123032576
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2019 02:45 am
Speaking in English now. Confirms what we pretty much knew. Mostly motivational.

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1170165993425047552
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Chris Bergin on 09/07/2019 03:21 am
That was a powerful moment (and started 20 seconds earlier when the PM saw he was upset - caught me so off guard I only pressed record from this moment)

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1170172559582781441
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: JeffLA on 09/07/2019 03:35 am
Longer clip.

https://twitter.com/ndtv/status/1170172921903366144
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sanman on 09/07/2019 03:53 am
Youtube  (english portion starts @12:15)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMw-nI_75QE

(Bro-hug @38:15)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: chetan_chpd on 09/07/2019 05:10 am
When can we expect that LRO would find the crash spot like it did for beresheet?

(Side note: IP addresses from India seem to be not having access to nasaspaceflight...any idea?)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: abhishek on 09/07/2019 05:21 am
Unlikely....most space mission has two objectives,one scientific and the other political .With Nasa's Artemis launching as early as 2024 the purpose of sending a rover mission would be lost completely

ISRO already is planning Chandrayaan-3 for a while, it will be a joint mission with JAXA (https://www.asianage.com/opinion/oped/160619/chandrayaan-2-will-be-the-stepping-stone-for-human-landing-on-the-moon.html). It was tentatively scheduled for 2024 (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/after-mars-venus-on-isros-planetary-travel-list/articleshow/69381185.cms), but that is under review. Don't think that it depends on Artemis in any way. Soviet Union also kept sending their "Luna" landers to the Moon while NASA sent Apollo crew.

Chandrayaan 3 is still in proposal phase and given this failure ,ISRO will go slow and extra cautious with the next project,if it happens.
It's not that the soviets never tried to send humans to moon,when the N1 failed they did what the next best thing they could have done ie send Lunokhod 1 & 2 rovers

However i am not very optimistic about another chandrayaan happening soon.Firstly ISRO has series of important missions in pipeline,it cannot risk sidelining these vital projects for another shot at the moon.

Secondly, Politically speaking sending a Sojourner type mission to moon would make no sense especially on the light of the fact that China is sending a sample return mission months from now followed by many private lander and rover missions and finally a manned landing.

It would prove to be counterproductive,rather than highlighting India's technological prowess,it would only highlight the fact that India is far behind global space players.


India should rather focus on the programs that are in pipeline,the first one being the gaganyaan program.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sanman on 09/07/2019 05:50 am
With the Gaganyaan human spaceflight mission on a tight timeline and various other important missions on the roster, then everything will have to be focused on these things. Perhaps the joint mission planned with JAXA of Japan (circa 2023-2024) might offer some form of redemption.

Besides LRO, I wonder if the Chandrayaan-2 orbiter might be able to image the Vikram lander crash site. It does have its Orbiter High Resolution Camera - what's the resolution on that?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: chota on 09/07/2019 06:18 am
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1170095425522528256 (https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1170095425522528256)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/07/2019 06:22 am
When can we expect that LRO would find the crash spot like it did for beresheet?


If this simulator is right, the orbital plane is fixed and the orbiter is passing over crash site every 2 hours:
http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/3d/space-explorer-tracker.html?orbiter=-152&body=301
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/07/2019 06:36 am
https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/chandrayaan-2-landing-vikram-may-have-landed-on-moon-let-s-wait-for-analysis-says-former-isro-chief/story-QoAvYHuCok6T66Bl2krzhO.html

Quote
“We have to find out from the communication data whether it is a soft landing or it is a crash landing. In my opinion, it is not a crash landing because the communication channel is on between the lander and the orbiter. It should be intact. So, let us hope after the analysis done, we may be able to get the final figure,” he said, reports ANI
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/07/2019 06:48 am
"If this simulator is right, the orbital plane is fixed and the orbiter is passing over crash site every 2 hours:"

The orbit plane is fixed but the Moon rotates under it, so if Chandrayaan 2 passed right over the landing site during the landing, on every orbit after that it passes over a point a bit further east.  A month later it passes over the landing site again.  Actually, half a month later it passes over the landing site as well, but the site is in darkness.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: ncb1397 on 09/07/2019 07:18 am
"If this simulator is right, the orbital plane is fixed and the orbiter is passing over crash site every 2 hours:"

The orbit plane is fixed but the Moon rotates under it, so if Chandrayaan 2 passed right over the landing site during the landing, on every orbit after that it passes over a point a bit further east.  A month later it passes over the landing site again.  Actually, half a month later it passes over the landing site as well, but the site is in darkness.

LRO should be overhead in about 12 days based on where LRO is currently...

http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/about/whereislro

Think the mission was supposed to last 14 days so it should still be lit.

edit: Yeah it will be lit based on the moon phase on the 18th...

https://www.moongiant.com/phase/9/18/2019
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: otter on 09/07/2019 08:14 am
Inside Isro control room when Chandrayaan-2 lander lost contact
https://www.indiatoday.in/science/video/chandrayaan-2-contact-lost-isro-control-centre-visuals-1596537-2019-09-07
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: abcd_indya on 09/07/2019 08:21 am
Finally some news is indeed leaking out :  Isro may have lost lander, rover: Official

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/71019451.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/07/2019 09:30 am
https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/chandrayaan-2-landing-vikram-may-have-landed-on-moon-let-s-wait-for-analysis-says-former-isro-chief/story-QoAvYHuCok6T66Bl2krzhO.html

Quote
“We have to find out from the communication data whether it is a soft landing or it is a crash landing. In my opinion, it is not a crash landing because the communication channel is on between the lander and the orbiter. It should be intact. So, let us hope after the analysis done, we may be able to get the final figure,” he said, reports ANI
These inter-language misunderstandings are always annoying.
"the communication channel is on between the lander and the orbiter" does not mean they are communicating: it means that orbiter is listening.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: tolis on 09/07/2019 11:55 am
Figure it out and fly again.
Everything was right down the center, until it wasn't.
India will solve the problem and nail this.

These aren't the days of Russia's Lunas or the US Rangers and Surveyors.   There is no longer a production line of spacecraft so that another mission can be quickly prepared.

Not wishing to make a meal of this, but is it fair to use Surveyor to make the argument here? Granted that there *was* a production line, it nevertheless succeeded on the first try. This may have been luck, but the fact that 5 out of 7 attempts within a period of less than 2 years were successful suggests a sound engineering design that could do the job from the outset rather that something that needed time to mature.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: libra on 09/07/2019 11:56 am
This year, The Moon is REALLY a VERY harsch mistress. Two down for the count ! Still, kudos to ISRO. No doubt the orbiter will do a good job.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Phillip Clark on 09/07/2019 01:18 pm
This year, The Moon is REALLY a VERY harsch mistress. Two down for the count ! Still, kudos to ISRO. No doubt the orbiter will do a good job.

Two down for the count but don't forget that China's Chang'E 4 and Yutu 2 landed this year and they are still working on the lunar farside.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Ken the Bin on 09/07/2019 01:50 pm
Quote from: ISRO
Chandrayaan-2 mission was a highly complex mission, which represented a significant technological leap compared to the previous missions of ISRO, which brought together an Orbiter, Lander and Rover to explore the unexplored south pole of the Moon. Since the launch of Chandrayaan-2 on July 22, 2019, not only India but the whole world watched its progress from one phase to the next with great expectations and excitement. This was a unique mission which aimed at studying not just one area of the Moon but all the areas combining  the exosphere, the surface as well as the sub-surface of the moon in a single mission. The Orbiter has already been placed in its intended orbit around the Moon and shall enrich our understanding of the moon’s evolution and mapping of the minerals and water molecules in the Polar Regions, using its eight state-of-the-art scientific instruments. The Orbiter camera is the highest resolution camera (0.3m) in any lunar mission so far and shall provide high resolution images which will be immensely useful to the global scientific community. The precise launch and mission management has ensured a long life of almost 7 years instead of the planned one year. The Vikram Lander followed the planned descent trajectory from its orbit of 35 km to just below 2 km above the surface. All the systems and sensors of the Lander functioned excellently until this point and proved many new technologies such as variable thrust propulsion technology used in the Lander. The success criteria was defined for each and every phase of the mission and till date 90 to 95% of the mission objectives have been accomplished and will continue contribute to Lunar science , notwithstanding the loss of communication with the Lander.

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/07-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-latest-update (https://www.isro.gov.in/update/07-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-latest-update)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: PM3 on 09/07/2019 01:56 pm
Quote from: ISRO
The Vikram Lander followed the planned descent trajectory from its orbit of 35 km to just below 2 km above the surface.

https://www.isro.gov.in/update/07-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-latest-update (https://www.isro.gov.in/update/07-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-latest-update)

Yesterday they told the media that communication with the lander was lost in 2.1 km height. Now they say it performed well until below 2 km. How to know that, if communiction was already lost before?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/07/2019 02:36 pm
Yesterday they told the media that communication with the lander was lost in 2.1 km height. Now they say it performed well until below 2 km. How to know that, if communiction was already lost before?
I guess the guilty is that "down range", which means "horizontal distance from landing point" but really looks like altitude in the text version of telemetries... where no altitude is present.

(https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/20324.0/1581624.jpg)

(https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/20324.0/1581574.jpg)

I think the real facts are:
- good behaviour until (-2, 2.1)
- vertical deviation at (-2,2.1)
- telemetry loss at (-1, 0.5)

(https://i.imgur.com/MAxtzah.png)


By the way, this telemetry looks interesting:
(https://i.imgur.com/KImjScD.png)

Was the lander sending pictures while landing? (it would be strange, due to unneeded overload during a critical phase, but maybe...)


As a final note, I think it is a big engineering result the precision of the real descent path with respect to nominal descent path (0.1% error?).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/07/2019 02:43 pm
Is there already any explanation for these facts?

LOS exactly (?) when lander had to switch descending mode to hovering.
Why did LOS occur before crash?

(https://i.imgur.com/695tjTn.png)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: DaveS on 09/07/2019 03:05 pm
Is there already any explanation for these facts?

LOS exactly (?) when lander had to switch descending mode to hovering.
Why did LOS occur before crash?

(https://i.imgur.com/695tjTn.png)

Most likely either because of attitude error of the lander which caused the antenna to be pointed away from Earth or something happened to the comms equipment.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Svetoslav on 09/07/2019 05:46 pm
Hm.. from DSN Now:

https://twitter.com/dsn_status/status/1170391223040954368

However, I should remind - take this with a grain of salt. Remember the Oppy lessons? DSN Now is not supposed to be used as a diagnostic tool for faulty landers.

But we can certainly hope, can't we? :)

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: seshagirib on 09/07/2019 06:00 pm
Is there already any explanation for these facts?

LOS exactly (?) when lander had to switch descending mode to hovering.
Why did LOS occur before crash?

(https://i.imgur.com/695tjTn.png)

Most likely either because of attitude error of the lander which caused the antenna to be pointed away from Earth or something happened to the comms equipment.

Any omni / low gain antenna on the lander?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: ncb1397 on 09/07/2019 06:06 pm
Is there already any explanation for these facts?

LOS exactly (?) when lander had to switch descending mode to hovering.
Why did LOS occur before crash?

(https://i.imgur.com/695tjTn.png)

It looks like the red line went completely vertical at the altitude where LOS of signal happened. Could have been some problem with pitch over to completely vertical flight (thruster changing attitude stays on too long, thruster stopping roll doesn't fire).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: DaveS on 09/07/2019 06:13 pm
Is there already any explanation for these facts?

LOS exactly (?) when lander had to switch descending mode to hovering.
Why did LOS occur before crash?

(https://i.imgur.com/695tjTn.png)

It looks like the red line went completely vertical at the altitude where LOS of signal happened. Could have been some problem with pitch over to completely vertical flight (thruster changing attitude stays on too long, thruster stopping roll doesn't fire).
The red line is the anticipated flight trajectory generated on the ground. The actual flight trajectory of the lander is the green line with the dot at the end of it. As you can see, it ends well before the 0/0 point on the plot.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: ncb1397 on 09/07/2019 06:18 pm
Is there already any explanation for these facts?

LOS exactly (?) when lander had to switch descending mode to hovering.
Why did LOS occur before crash?

(https://i.imgur.com/695tjTn.png)

It looks like the red line went completely vertical at the altitude where LOS of signal happened. Could have been some problem with pitch over to completely vertical flight (thruster changing attitude stays on too long, thruster stopping roll doesn't fire).
The red line is the anticipated flight trajectory generated on the ground. The actual flight trajectory of the lander is the green line with the dot at the end of it. As you can see, it ends well before the 0/0 point on the plot.

Yes, but the lander probably was programmed to do something at the altitude where the anticipated flight profile (the red line) goes vertical. Is it a coincidence that when the projected flight profile changes, we get LOS? And it looks like the white lines are the bounds of the projected profile. So, landing 1 km off might not have been completely off nominal. Even a successful flight may not have ended at (0,0). (0,0) was just the center of their landing zone.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: DaveS on 09/07/2019 06:24 pm
Is there already any explanation for these facts?

LOS exactly (?) when lander had to switch descending mode to hovering.
Why did LOS occur before crash?

(https://i.imgur.com/695tjTn.png)

Most likely either because of attitude error of the lander which caused the antenna to be pointed away from Earth or something happened to the comms equipment.

Any omni / low gain antenna on the lander?
Probably but omni antennas only cover so much. I believe out to about 180°s Field of View (FoV) for an omni antenna. One antenna would only cover one side of the spacecraft. If the spacecraft did indeed change its attitude for the worse, the antenna would rotate away from Earth and possibly point either into deep space or towards the lunar surface. Either way, you would end up in an LoS situation.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 09/07/2019 09:52 pm
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1170423740120743936

Quote
Very exciting to see India’s rapid progress in space! There are always setbacks, of course, but I think India is doing great overall.

https://twitter.com/blueorigin/status/1170396296781295616

Quote
Incredible effort by the #ISRO team. Keep going! Step by step. #Chandrayaan2 #GradatimFerociter
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: PM3 on 09/08/2019 01:15 am
Extra brake thrust may have sent Vikram out of control in home stretch (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/extra-brake-thrust-may-have-sent-vikram-out-of-control-in-home-stretch/articleshow/71030431.cms)

Quote
"We thought one of the thrusters may have underperformed," said an Isro scientist. "But after some preliminary analysis, it looks like a thruster overperformed."

Officially, Isro maintained that data was still being analysed. However, a scientist told TOI, "Vikram's legs were to be horizontal during the roughbraking and had to be rotated by 90 degrees to bring them vertical to the landing surface before fine-braking. At this point, the thrust might have been more than optimal, impacting the lander's orientation. It's like a car losing direction due to sudden braking at high speed."
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/08/2019 02:46 am
Scott Manley's analysis of Vikram lander failure based on available data:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xKJG00-S_c
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/08/2019 02:50 am
Orbiter life is expected to be around 7+ years as against 1 year thanks to precise orbit insertion, maneuver, and fuel management. Orbiter high resolution camera swath is small, so extended lifetime of orbiter would help in covering entire Moon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2xhKSoMlUI

Cartosat-3 at the end of October, followed by RISAT-2BR.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/08/2019 02:58 am
Quote
A top ISRO official told Frontline, “Vikram’s descent was very good during the rough braking phase. During the transition from the rough braking phase to the fine braking phase, there was a problem. The velocity of the descent could not be controlled. We are trying to identify what failed and what went wrong. It is very disappointing.”

The official said the lander would have crash-landed on the moon’s surface, a point that he emphasised more than once. “There is no question of its soft-landing. From the data available, it is clear that it has crashed,” he said. “We have a lot of data available and they are being analysed. In a couple of days, we will be able to come out with what the problem was,” he added. The data included telemetry data, including on-board data from the lander.

Another top official of ISRO said a committee consisting of specialists in propulsion, control, guidance, navigation and sensors had been set up to identify the precise reason why contact was lost with the lander when it was only 2.1 km above the moon’s surface. He added: “In a few more minutes, we would have touched down on the lunar surface. What is the reason why no data were available when the lander had only 2.1 km to come down we have no clue as yet. However, enormous amounts of data are available and we will analyse them to find out what exactly went wrong.” He also stressed that a glitch occurred during the transition phase of the lander from the rough braking phase to the fine braking phase.

Quote
A top ISRO official said, “It is not clear why it happened. We are unable to decipher anything out of it so far. We have set up a team consisting of specialists in propulsion, control, guidance, navigation and sensors to find out what went wrong. So far, we do not have any clue about what went wrong.” He was confident that ISRO would zero in on the exact cause of the failure because enormous data were available and they would be analysed. All the data would be correlated. What was clear was that the lander had crashed on the moon’s surface.

https://frontline.thehindu.com/dispatches/article29362608.ece
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sanman on 09/08/2019 04:09 am
https://english.manoramaonline.com/news/nation/2019/09/07/chandrayaan-2-vikram-excess-velocity-final-phase.html

Quote
Chandrayaan-2: Is Vikram’s excess velocity towards terminal phase the villain?
...
“Up to 2.1 km all was fine. Soon the rotation rates increased and the engine thrust went up to 100 per cent in place of around 70 per cent. The velocity too shot up indicating tumbling and crashing. At this stage, the telemetry link was lost,” says another top scientist part of the crucial mission activities.
...
“We had to plot every bit of data including the algorithm profile. In the next 3-4 days we should have an answer. The lander after rotation (90 degree, at around 25 km) seems to have gained more velocity than required. Things might have gone wrong here,” he said.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/08/2019 06:13 am
Unofficial rumors, take it with a pinch of salt.

Quote
@vasudevan49
Latest update:
Lander found 500m away from the actual landing spot. But almost upside down. Seen from OHRC image and it is intact!
Trying to send commands from Bangalore control center...

https://twitter.com/vasudevan49/status/1170347263610146816
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 09/08/2019 08:19 am
https://twitter.com/launchstuff/status/1170612375713697792

Quote
Just spoke with @isro chairman Sivan. He confirms that the #Chandrayaan2 orbiter has sent images of #Vikram, the lander. But no communication has been established yet.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: tolis on 09/08/2019 08:42 am
Unofficial rumors, take it with a pinch of salt.

Quote
@vasudevan49
Latest update:
Lander found 500m away from the actual landing spot. But almost upside down. Seen from OHRC image and it is intact!
Trying to send commands from Bangalore control center...

https://twitter.com/vasudevan49/status/1170347263610146816

It may be physically intact but damaged and non-functioning.

by "actual landing spot", do you mean the spot where it was predicted to touch down based on the telemetry up to the point of LOS?

if there is power and communications can be established, one option would be to try and put it in a better attitude for power and comms, hope it survives the lunar night and try to salvage what they can from the science mission
when, or if, it wakes up after sunrise. A lot of ifs but I'm sure ISRO will do everything in their power to turn an (apparent) failure into an at least partial success.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Svetoslav on 09/08/2019 08:42 am
Officially from Mr. Sivan:

https://twitter.com/KailasavadivooS/status/1170612975582887937

And:

https://www.businesstoday.in/current/economy-politics/chandrayaan-2-isro-locates-moon-lander-location-establish-contact/story/377980.html
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/08/2019 09:01 am
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1170610654232731648

Quote
Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) Chief, K Sivan to ANI:We've found the location of #VikramLander on lunar surface&orbiter has clicked a thermal image of Lander. But there is no communication yet. We are trying to have contact. It will be communicated soon. #Chandrayaan2
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: tolis on 09/08/2019 09:08 am
Quote
Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) Chief, K Sivan to ANI:We've found the location of #VikramLander on lunar surface&orbiter has clicked a thermal image of Lander. But there is no communication yet. We are trying to have contact. It will be communicated soon. #Chandrayaan2


a "thermal" image? that would be quite low-res, perhaps less than a pixel across. it may not be very useful in telling us about the structural integrity of the lander.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: seshagirib on 09/08/2019 09:48 am
^Even  if(a big if) it was a high speed landing,  which did not completely break up the lander, but rendering it non fuctional.  It will still point to a robust design,  a control system which managed a crippled craft quiet well.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/08/2019 10:06 am
Ignore these fake twitter accounts. Even the one above purporting to be from "Kailasavadivoo Sivan" twitter account is also fake. ISRO chairman K. Sivan does not have any twitter account. We've only got official report from ANI News as of now.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/08/2019 10:25 am
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/chandrayaan-2-vikram-lander-located-on-lunar-surface-isro-chairman/article29367136.ece

Quote
The Chandrayaan-2's Vikram module has been located on the lunar surface and it must have been a hard-landing, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) chairman K. Sivan said on Sunday.

“Yes, we have located the lander on the lunar surface. It must have been a hard-landing,” Mr. Sivan told PTI.


Asked if the lander was ‘damaged’ during the ’hard-landing,’ he said, “That we do not know.”

Mr. Sivan said efforts to establish contact with the lander were continuing.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Alter Sachse on 09/08/2019 11:13 am
"Chandrayaan-2: We got the image of Vikram lander, no communication yet, says ISRO chief"

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/71033778.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: abcd_indya on 09/08/2019 06:37 pm
Thermal image of Vikram posted in this article. Not sure about legitimacy of the source!

https://aboutspacejornal.net/2019/09/08/в-сети-появились-снимки-посадочного-м/?_utl_t=tw
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/08/2019 06:49 pm
http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2019/sep/08/chandrayaan-2-vikram-lander-tumbled-and-crashed-on-moon-2030482.html

Quote
Sources said Vikram’s antennas have a beamwidth of 180°, which means they can stay connected with the orbiter only if the antennas’ angular manoeuvre is within 180°. “If the lander starts to tumble and when antennas face the lunar surface, the communication link is lost. It’s like losing your DTH connection when the antenna on your terrace is pushed by a bird or the wind. Here the situation is far more grave as Vikram was tumbling. The rotation was so high that Vikram along with Pragyan rover crashed,” said an ISRO scientist, who was inside the Mission Control Room, on condition of anonymity.

Quote
To a query on why Vikram tumbled, sources said there could be multiple reasons, including design failure. They even said the lander was not put through elaborate tests. “The tests were conducted using a crane manually, instead of testing it in a free-fall condition with a balloon in autonomous mode. Only the last 60 metres descent was tested. A spare lander should have been used to drop it from an aircraft and see if all the parameters were met. This would have given a more realistic picture,” sources said.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Hungry4info3 on 09/08/2019 07:24 pm
Thermal image of Vikram posted in this article. Not sure about legitimacy of the source!

https://aboutspacejornal.net/2019/09/08/в-сети-появились-снимки-посадочного-м/?_utl_t=tw

If that image is real, based on the resolution alone it seems more likely it was captured shortly after separation, rather than with the lander during descent or on the surface.

Edit: The sentence right before the image, according to Google Translate, is "It should probably look like this:"
Which implies it is not a real image of the lander.

Edit2: At this time, we should be highly skeptical of any reports that the lander is intact, especially reports that the lander is undamaged. The Doppler graph of the signal makes it clear the spacecraft did not maintain a deceleration all the way to the surface. Vikram fatally crashed. That much is clear.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: tolis on 09/08/2019 07:26 pm
99% of the time, space missions fail not because of luck (> factors beyond our control: a micrometeoroid impact is a particular favourite because it cannot be disproven) but because systems fail, systems of machines and systems of the people who make and control them. This translates into any one of the following: lack of systems testing and quality control, poor management or decision making and even corruption. The maturity of a space organisation is defined by the ability to admit to itself that something went wrong, correct it whatever the cost and move on.

However, we first need to know the facts and the priority for mission management at the moment would be to try everything in their power to salvage some part of the mission. Don't forget also that there is a functioning orbiter
with an impressive array of instruments that promises to deliver some fantastic science.   

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Hungry4info3 on 09/08/2019 07:32 pm
https://aboutspacejornal.net/2019/09/08/в-сети-появились-снимки-посадочного-м/?_utl_t=tw
The infrared image of the moon itself is actually from LCROSS, anyway.
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LCROSS/main/Swingby_Mosaics_story.html

The linked AboutSpaceJornal.net article presents mis-attributed images that have been clearly altered as news. That's what cycle the rumour mill is in now.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/08/2019 07:59 pm
I think it's just somebody saying "This is what a thermal image looks like".  If you can see the curving limb of the Moon in an image, you are not looking at it with sufficient resolution to see a lander.  Also - the mention of a thermal image has been corrected in other tweets to say it was an image from the High Resolution Camera on the orbiter, not a thermal image at all. 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/08/2019 08:14 pm
We now have a credible report (previous unofficial report (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1990243#msg1990243)):

https://twitter.com/Madrassan_Pinky/status/1170618378442067970
Quote
It is an optical image that has been captured by Orbiter of the lander spot and not thermal image as reported by others media houses. OHRC is same like our human eye. Since it consists of only one spectral band in visible region, so Image will be of gray scale, Not color image.

https://twitter.com/Madrassan_Pinky/status/1170609817850793984
Quote
ISRO Sources confirms me that "Lander found 500m away from the actual landing spot. Seen from OHRC (Optical High Resolution Camera) image and it is intact. Trying to send commands from Bangalore control center." @ABPNews
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/08/2019 08:17 pm
Thermal image of Vikram posted in this article. Not sure about legitimacy of the source!

https://aboutspacejornal.net/2019/09/08/в-сети-появились-снимки-посадочного-м/?_utl_t=tw

This is fake news.

https://twitter.com/Madrassan_Pinky/status/1170691213839585285
Quote
There are many fake images going viral claiming to be of "Lander Spot on Lunar surface" clicked by Orbiter. FYI, No such image has been released by @isro so far.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/09/2019 12:39 am
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/chandrayaan-2-vssc-scientists-keep-fingers-crossed-for-establishing-contact-with-vikram/article29369037.ece

Quote
On the bright side for the SPL, its payload on the orbiter — CHACE-2 (short for Chandra’s Altitudinal Composition Explorer) — is functioning perfectly, SPL Director Radhika Ramachandran told The Hindu on Sunday.

“'The data from CHACE-2 is excellent. In fact, we have been taking observations and collecting data on the way, in the trans-lunar orbit and the lunar orbit as well. It is functioning perfectly,” Dr. Ramachandran said. CHACE-2 is designed to measure the composition of the lunar exosphere, and is an improvement on CHACE, which flew aboard the Moon Impact Probe (MIP) on the 2008 Chandrayaan-1 mission.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/09/2019 12:53 am
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/orbiter-has-spotted-vikram-lander-signals-elusive-isro/articleshow/71040314.cms

Quote
"Once the image was taken yesterday (Saturday), we had to ascertain if the object we saw was Vikram. Then based on the latitude and longitude, we checked old images from the same site. The old images didn't show any objects, while the new one showed an object, which is how we concluded that it was Vikram," the scientist said.

Quote
"At the outset, it appears that a more than optimal thrust, or a more than required horizontal velocity could have caused the lander to spin out of control. But we are also looking at other things, including what we may have not anticipated," the scientist said. Explaining further, he said that there could have been some "unknown" effect on the lander while it was performing the descent from which it couldn't recover. "It could as well be a natural phenomena we hadn't accounted for. We are still looking," he said.

On this specific question, Sivan said: "As of today we don't have enough...We are yet to find anything conclusive, we are still analysing the information. But yes, we are looking into all these angles."

Quote
Reiterating that Chandrayaan-2 orbiter's bonus lifespan is a big takeaway, he said that the satellite will provide breakthrough data. ".. I am telling you that we will have another breakthrough with data about water. Given that our orbiter orientation is 90 degree, we have an advantage in locating ice and water. We will be specifically able to look at solidised or frozen water 10m under the surface of the Moon. We will make history," he added.

Quote
"After about a year, once all the eight payloads complete the primary objective of collecting data from a 100km orbit and we receive all of that, there is a thinking about lowering its orbit," the scientist said. He added that the cameras, especially would be used more optimally from a lower orbit.
When asked, Sivan said: "If we go to a 50km orbit, the resolution would be even better. But at this point, no final decision has been taken and 7.5 years of life for the orbiter present us with an opportunity, for the first time, to map the whole of Moon using such good cameras."
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: chota on 09/09/2019 10:12 am
> It had a hard-landing very close to the planned (touch-down) site as per the images sent by the on-board camera of the orbiter
> The lander is there as a single piece, not broken into pieces. It's in a tilted position
> Unless and until everything is intact (lander), it's very difficult (to re-establish contact)
> Chances are less. Only if it had soft-landing, and if all systems functioned, then only communication can be restored. Things are bleak as of now
> Already it's lying on the surface of the Moon, and we cannot reorient it
> Vital thing is antennas will have to pointed towards the ground station or the orbiter
> Lander generating power is not an issue, as it has "solar panels all around it" and it also has "internal batteries" which "are not used much."

Source: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-not-losing-hope-continues-to-make-all-out-efforts-to-restore-link-with-lander-vikram/articleshow/71045854.cms (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/isro-not-losing-hope-continues-to-make-all-out-efforts-to-restore-link-with-lander-vikram/articleshow/71045854.cms)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: chota on 09/09/2019 10:15 am
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1170993695950172160 (https://twitter.com/isro/status/1170993695950172160)
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: gdelottle on 09/09/2019 11:30 am
https://www.thequint.com/news/webqoof/fake-thermal-images-of-vikram-lander tryes to tell the full story about the fake pics and account.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: lamid on 09/09/2019 03:09 pm
Can speeds be calculated from these data?
(https://i.imgur.com/QgvMf5W.png)
(https://www.kosmo.cz/img.php?w=800&src=https%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-unt5tvmmH6o%2FXXXx_PyFYkI%2FAAAAAAAAzSU%2F5htKqW--VKwtQnM_A3stOokLCXgmeoVeACLcBGAs%2Fs1600%2FChandrayaan-2%252Blast%252Btime%252BCees%252BBassa2.png)

into the radiogram i plotted velocity from  landing live stream
20:15:34   634,3 m/sec
20:17:15   379,3
20:18:07   242,5
20:18:17   216,2
20:19:22   78,5
20:20:52   76,1 m/sec

https://twitter.com/cgbassa/status/1170075259804012544

Title: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Star One on 09/09/2019 03:21 pm
Even Scott Manley is getting hassle because of this story.

Quote
I'm getting a bunch of ContentID claims on old videos because someone unrelated to ISRO has decided to claim ownership their Chandrayaan 2 animation.
90% of the time I get a ContentID hit the claimant doesn't own the rights, and yet
@YTCreators
 can't dispute based on this.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1170725608705253381
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: abcd_indya on 09/09/2019 03:31 pm
Lander intact but tilted!

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/isro-not-losing-hope-continues-to-make-all-out-efforts-to-restore-link-with-lander-vikram/articleshow/71045854.cms
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: ellindsey on 09/09/2019 03:45 pm
Lander intact but tilted!

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/isro-not-losing-hope-continues-to-make-all-out-efforts-to-restore-link-with-lander-vikram/articleshow/71045854.cms

Not confirmed.  Probably false.
https://www.indiatoday.in/science/story/chandrayaan-2-lander-vikram-intact-moon-isro-says-not-confirmed-1597265-2019-09-09
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: gdelottle on 09/09/2019 04:00 pm
I wonder if other Space Agencies offered help in trying to restore comms with the lander, Assuming this would be technically possible, for example using the Deep Space Network from Earth.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/09/2019 06:49 pm
Can speeds be calculated from these data?
(https://i.imgur.com/QgvMf5W.png)
(https://www.kosmo.cz/img.php?w=800&src=https%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-unt5tvmmH6o%2FXXXx_PyFYkI%2FAAAAAAAAzSU%2F5htKqW--VKwtQnM_A3stOokLCXgmeoVeACLcBGAs%2Fs1600%2FChandrayaan-2%252Blast%252Btime%252BCees%252BBassa2.png)
I did a mistake in my image: they are kHz, not Hz.

Lander intact but tilted!

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/isro-not-losing-hope-continues-to-make-all-out-efforts-to-restore-link-with-lander-vikram/articleshow/71045854.cms
Fake news.
Real news is "lander observed: it didn't explode in hundreds of pieces like Schiaparelli on Mars".
Way different than "intact".

Its' the same process of "orbiter listening to lander" turned into "channel between orbiter and lander is open" into "contact with lander was successful".
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/09/2019 06:59 pm
I searched for hours but could not find any tech detail about TMC-2 camera ("5 meter spatial resolution"?!?) and OHRC camera (0.32m resolution?!?).
Field of view, pixels, focal length... nothing.
I found TMC-1, but in what does TMC-2 differ from it?

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: hop on 09/09/2019 10:09 pm
I wonder if other Space Agencies offered help in trying to restore comms with the lander, Assuming this would be technically possible, for example using the Deep Space Network from Earth.
DSN was supporting the landing, and that arrangement undoubtedly includes support in off nominal situations. The lander has actually shown up DSN now  feed, but it's virtually certain these are artifacts like we saw in the Opportunity recovery effort, not actual contacts. If there were real contacts, I'd expect that news to get out pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 09/09/2019 11:50 pm
https://twitter.com/ianpineapple/status/1171190704581857280

Quote
It appears that the Deep Space Network is attempting to send data to the Vikram lander, which ISRO lost contact with just before its landing. This is likely them trying to reestablish communications. ISRO has yet to provide an official update on the lander's status.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Vikranth on 09/10/2019 03:59 am
Appears there is a downlink signal from the Lander??
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Slothman on 09/10/2019 04:25 am
Appears there is a downlink signal from the Lander??

If there was, it's not there anymore, which is in line with the "drop lock" part of the following from the DSN website:

Quote
In off-nominal scenarios when a project may be attempting to recover a spacecraft that is in safe mode or experiencing other operational challenges, an antenna may wrongly report that is receiving data from the spacecraft in question. While the ground station is searching for a signal, it may ‘lock on’ to a signal from a different spacecraft and wrongly identify it as the spacecraft being searched for. This is particularly common with spacecraft at Mars as multiple spacecraft are within the field of view of a single DSN antenna. For example, attempts to recover the Opportunity Rover (MERB) may appear successful when the antenna has actually locked on to a signal from one of the orbiters around Mars such as MAVEN or MRO. When this occurs, engineers ask the antenna to ‘drop lock’ and the hunt for the spacecraft continues. 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/10/2019 04:44 am
ISRO official update: https://www.isro.gov.in/update/10-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-vikram-lander-has-been-located-orbiter

Quote
Sep 10, 2019
Chandrayaan 2: Vikram lander has been located by the orbiter

Vikram lander has been located by the orbiter of Chandrayaan-2, but no communication with it yet. All possible efforts are being made to establish communication with lander
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/10/2019 04:47 am
https://twitter.com/dsn_status/status/1171230339194380289
Quote
DSS 24 carrier lock on Chandrayaan-2 Lander
Frequency: 2.2846GHz
Signal strength: -138dBm
IDLE OFF 1 TURBO
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Vikranth on 09/10/2019 05:01 am
Appears there is a downlink signal from the Lander??

If there was, it's not there anymore, which is in line with the "drop lock" part of the following from the DSN website:

Quote
In off-nominal scenarios when a project may be attempting to recover a spacecraft that is in safe mode or experiencing other operational challenges, an antenna may wrongly report that is receiving data from the spacecraft in question. While the ground station is searching for a signal, it may ‘lock on’ to a signal from a different spacecraft and wrongly identify it as the spacecraft being searched for. This is particularly common with spacecraft at Mars as multiple spacecraft are within the field of view of a single DSN antenna. For example, attempts to recover the Opportunity Rover (MERB) may appear successful when the antenna has actually locked on to a signal from one of the orbiters around Mars such as MAVEN or MRO. When this occurs, engineers ask the antenna to ‘drop lock’ and the hunt for the spacecraft continues. 

The downlink was there for 10 minutes,which went on and off.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Johnnyhinbos on 09/10/2019 05:04 am
Dunno if the DSN signal is valid. This just tweeted...

https://twitter.com/isro/status/1171284893143224321
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/10/2019 05:08 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEDij-EWwAIUEUV.png:large)

https://twitter.com/cgbassa/status/1171185014538739713

https://twitter.com/cgbassa/status/1171185027037708288
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: hop on 09/10/2019 05:24 am
Appears there is a downlink signal from the Lander??
You should assume these are false positives unless there is confirmation from people with direct knowledge of the missions or DSN. The system that feeds DSN now and the twitter feed is well known to produce false positives in this kind of situation.

This happened a lot in the MER opportunity recovery effort. See this post (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42774.msg1848006#msg1848006) and the following one from djellison, who both helped create the "DSN now" page and worked on the Opportunity mission.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Vikranth on 09/10/2019 05:48 am
Right now,Lander isn't responding to the ground stations,seems like if anything can happen it can only happen due to the orbiter.If reports are to be believed the Lander is pretty much Intact.But very less is known about its Electrical and Communcation systems which might have been damaged due to the 'hard landing'.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 09/10/2019 06:24 am
https://twitter.com/chethan_dash/status/1171289295853780993

Quote
After a long silence, @isro releases statement. It says #Vikram is still quiet. All efforts being made to communicate. #Chandrayaan2 orbiter has spotted lander. My sources say that Isro is yet to ascertain the condition of transponder on Vikram, but no official word yet.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/10/2019 07:34 am
(https://www.kosmo.cz/img.php?w=800&src=https%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-unt5tvmmH6o%2FXXXx_PyFYkI%2FAAAAAAAAzSU%2F5htKqW--VKwtQnM_A3stOokLCXgmeoVeACLcBGAs%2Fs1600%2FChandrayaan-2%252Blast%252Btime%252BCees%252BBassa2.png)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEDij-EWwAIUEUV.png:large)

Data do not match.
And what is the dark horizontal line after LOS, in the first image?

A part from this, can a signal with 10^-20 kW power carry readable data?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sanman on 09/10/2019 08:09 am
So maybe this is a silly aside, but what about that NASA Laser Retroflector that was included on the Vikram Lander? Where exactly was it mounted on the lander? How robust or fragile is that thing?

Whether the lander is in pieces, or intact but overturned, would that passive Laser Retroflector still potentially be usable by NASA? Does it require a specific orientation? Or is it just a shiny thing that will reflect back as long as it's exposed to the open sky?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Svetoslav on 09/10/2019 08:22 am
Keep in mind that ISRO may be very (and I mean VERY) slow when it comes to releasing pictures.

I still remember MIP - the small impactor that was attached to Chandrayaan-1. ISRO released 2 photos, but refused to release a video for months. No begging seemed to help. It was frustrating.

I have more faith in LRO, that they will be faster to release a photo of the crash (or hard impact) site. I dearly hope there isn't some kind of a non-disclosure agreement with ISRO though. That would suck.

Also, judging by what I see on Twitter, the level of trust in the government in India appears to be much higher than in our European/US world. If a government agency says that the lander is intact, then it is intact and no photo is needed - end of discussion.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Slothman on 09/10/2019 08:37 am
So maybe this is a silly aside, but what about that NASA Laser Retroflector that was included on the Vikram Lander? Where exactly was it mounted on the lander? How robust or fragile is that thing?

Whether the lander is in pieces, or intact but overturned, would that passive Laser Retroflector still potentially be usable by NASA? Does it require a specific orientation? Or is it just a shiny thing that will reflect back as long as it's exposed to the open sky?

This is it. It works like one of those cats eyes reflectors on a bicycle. It sends the light back to where it came from, no matter from which angle it came (within limits of course).
Assuming that they planned for vikram to have it's top side more or less pointing towards earth, we can imagine that it was attached on top of the vehicle.

We don't know the final orientation of the lander. Maybe it's upside down, maybe it's on it's side, maybe somewhere in between or it landed right side up and how much damage it took.

Remember it's location on the south pole of the moon means that if you are on the surface and you look 90° straight up, you will not see earth. So if Vikram is on it's side or at an angle, it may be that the reflector is either pointing directly at earth or it's in the shadow of the lander, depending on the rotation of the vehicle.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Svetoslav on 09/10/2019 08:40 am
To add, we also know there's a similar retroreflector on Beresheet. We were told that LRO will send laser pulsations with LOLA to the crash site, but we've got no update ever since.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/10/2019 09:09 am
So maybe this is a silly aside, but what about that NASA Laser Retroflector that was included on the Vikram Lander? Where exactly was it mounted on the lander? How robust or fragile is that thing?

Whether the lander is in pieces, or intact but overturned, would that passive Laser Retroflector still potentially be usable by NASA? Does it require a specific orientation? Or is it just a shiny thing that will reflect back as long as it's exposed to the open sky?
Assuming that they planned for vikram to have it's top side more or less pointing towards earth, we can imagine that it was attached on top of the vehicle.

https://www.space.com/next-gen-apollo-moon-laser-reflector-on-india-mission.html

Quote
[...]Virkam's microreflector will not be observed by lunar laser stations on Earth. Instead, lasers fired from a satellite will bounce off this small reflector, telling scientists the distance between the satellite and the microreflector on the lunar surface.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sanman on 09/10/2019 11:55 am
This news clip features a brief interview with Dr Mylswamy Annadurai, who was the mission director for Chandrayaan-1 and also the Mars Orbiter Mission. He also worked on Chandrayaan-2 as well, although he's now currently retired.

So his comments would not be uninformed, nor speculative rumour-mongering.

@1:12 He says that the lander was found intact, but its orientation is the issue. He also says that the mission design had included line-of-sight communication between lander and orbiter as a method to overcome potential ground obstacles to communication, but that this allows only a 5-6 minute window while the orbiter is overhead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meOYbi0iDCQ


So the question is, can line-of-sight communication work when the lander may be on its side? The Moon's curvature is sharper with a closer horizon - could this help?
I'd read that the lander's antenna has a 180-deg beam width, so I'm imagining that if the lander is sideways on its side, then line-of-sight would include anything from directly overhead to a tangential direction to the Moon's surface.

Of course, all of this presumes the lander's communications hardware is in working condition to begin with.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Svetoslav on 09/10/2019 11:58 am
Another conflicting report:

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1171391776852185088
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Moskit on 09/10/2019 04:27 pm
I did not see this posted yet - update from BBC:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49632316 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-49632316)
Quote
"One plausible explanation was that the lander started falling more rapidly," he told BBC Hindi's Imran Qureshi. "It's supposed to come down at a velocity of two metres per second when it hits the Moon's surface. But the gravity on the moon would have made it fall somewhat more rapidly.''

He believes this could be because the central engine was not "producing the thrust that is required and, therefore, the deceleration was no longer what it was supposed to be".

And this, in turn, may have led to eventually losing communication with the lander itself.

The head of India's first Moon mission, Mylswamy Annadurai, also said the anomaly in the velocity profile was an indication that something had malfunctioned in the lander as it hurtled towards the Moon.

"Most likely the orientation [of the lander] could have been disrupted. Once we look at the data we will be able to say for sure what happened, but it is likely that either a sensor or a thruster could have malfunctioned," he told BBC Tamil.
Dr Rajeswari Rajagopalan, the head of the Nuclear and Space Policy Initiative of the Observer Research Foundation (ORF), also said an engine malfunction was the likeliest reason.

"In the absence of data parameters, it is difficult to come to a conclusion, but the readings on the screen did show that something was wrong," she told BBC Hindi.

"The other possibility is that when you do a landing at a higher speed, you cause a lot of dust to rise that also shakes up the spacecraft because of the gravitational pull. But it's more likely the malfunctioning of one of the engines."
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/10/2019 04:35 pm
Quote
"The other possibility is that when you do a landing at a higher speed, you cause a lot of dust to rise that also shakes up the spacecraft because of the gravitational pull. But it's more likely the malfunctioning of one of the engines."
What?!?
The actual sentence in Hindi language would help here..

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/10/2019 05:06 pm
Google translate of interview to Doctor Chatterjee, mission interface manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL):

Quote
"The way it came down suddenly, I think there must have been something wrong with its propulsion system."

"this is likely to happen when one or two of the four locomotives have gone wrong."

"All four engines were working up to a distance of 2.1. The central engine is turned on when the lander is about 400 meters above the surface. If you keep all four engines running till the surface is reached, then Debris can cause problems. The central engine must be turned on at the vertical landing point. "
https://www.bbc.com/hindi/india-49622103


Quote
ISRO Chairman K.K. Sivan has said that the Indian space agency will try for 14 days to contact the lander.
http://bharatpages.in/feedviewer.php?id=198&qq=%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8-2%20%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8B%20%E0%A4%B2%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%B0%20ISRO%20%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%87%20%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%20%E0%A4%9F%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%9F,%20%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BE%20%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%B2%20%E0%A4%97%E0%A4%88%20%E0%A4%B2%E0%A5%88%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%B0%20%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AE%20%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%80%20%E0%A4%B2%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B6%E0%A4%A8%20


Found while looking for "interview Rajeswari Rajagopalan chandrayaan" in Hindi "साक्षात्कार राजेश्वरी राजगोपालन चन्द्रयान-2" (https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&rlz=1C1ASUM_enIT857IT858&sxsrf=ACYBGNRzUr8kcuj7L6g8_J7X81I5STSvqg%3A1568133824711&ei=wNJ3XeaGK4SRsAeuupKIAQ&q=%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B0+%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%9C%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%80+%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%9C%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B2%E0%A4%A8+%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8&oq=%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B0+++%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%9C%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%80+%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%9C%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B2%E0%A4%A8+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.35i39l2.25165.47350..51271...1.0..2.412.1606.2j1j1j2j1......0....1j2..gws-wiz.....10..35i362i39j0i19.Qm-mv4Ozk9o)

Chandrayaan-2:   चंद्रयान-2
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: whitelancer64 on 09/10/2019 05:09 pm
So maybe this is a silly aside, but what about that NASA Laser Retroflector that was included on the Vikram Lander? Where exactly was it mounted on the lander? How robust or fragile is that thing?

Whether the lander is in pieces, or intact but overturned, would that passive Laser Retroflector still potentially be usable by NASA? Does it require a specific orientation? Or is it just a shiny thing that will reflect back as long as it's exposed to the open sky?

This is it. It works like one of those cats eyes reflectors on a bicycle. It sends the light back to where it came from, no matter from which angle it came (within limits of course).
Assuming that they planned for vikram to have it's top side more or less pointing towards earth, we can imagine that it was attached on top of the vehicle.

We don't know the final orientation of the lander. Maybe it's upside down, maybe it's on it's side, maybe somewhere in between or it landed right side up and how much damage it took.

Remember it's location on the south pole of the moon means that if you are on the surface and you look 90° straight up, you will not see earth. So if Vikram is on it's side or at an angle, it may be that the reflector is either pointing directly at earth or it's in the shadow of the lander, depending on the rotation of the vehicle.

The retroreflector wasn't made for Earth laser ranging, it's too small to send back a significant return of laser pulses from Earth. It's meant for laser ranging from lunar orbit, which allows for an extremely precise measurement of its altitude relative to the rest of the lunar surface. This provides a reference point, which is needed for precise geodysy (map making) of the lunar surface.

IMO the retroreflector (and indeed, the rest of the lander) is most likely in tiny pieces embedded in and scattered across the lunar surface.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Slothman on 09/10/2019 05:49 pm

The retroreflector wasn't made for Earth laser ranging, it's too small to send back a significant return of laser pulses from Earth. It's meant for laser ranging from lunar orbit, which allows for an extremely precise measurement of its altitude relative to the rest of the lunar surface. This provides a reference point, which is needed for precise geodysy (map making) of the lunar surface.

IMO the retroreflector (and indeed, the rest of the lander) is most likely in tiny pieces embedded in and scattered across the lunar surface.

Thanks, yeah that makes sense. Still the orientation of the lander matters. If it's upright, the satellite can  see the reflector basically from horizon to horizon. If it's on it's side, depending on rotation of the vehicle, it can only reach the reflector if it's line of sight is not blocked by geology or the lander itself, which could drastically reduce the opportunity/time window of seeing the reflector.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: abcd_indya on 09/10/2019 07:51 pm
Given that ISRO continues to find a way to make contact with the lander, it it very likely that it is indeed intact or at least major part of it is intact for ISRO to believe that something can be done about it. Assuming that is the case and given that last telemetry indicated a vertical speed of 76m/s (it should have gotten shattered at this speed at impact point on Moon), it should have slowed down to sufficient enough vertical speed that it landed as a relatively intact unit. What could that be ? Any data available from past such experience?  Based on that, probability of instrumentation surviving the impact could be deduced ?
Wouldn't it be great if a black-box kind of equipment would be automatically be jettisoned on first impact and be immediately available to rely last moments of the mother-ship to an orbiter ?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: whitelancer64 on 09/10/2019 08:05 pm
Given that ISRO continues to find a way to make contact with the lander, it it very likely that it is indeed intact or at least major part of it is intact for ISRO to believe that something can be done about it. Assuming that is the case and given that last telemetry indicated a vertical speed of 76m/s (it should have gotten shattered at this speed at impact point on Moon), it should have slowed down to sufficient enough vertical speed that it landed as a relatively intact unit. What could that be ? Any data available from past such experience?  Based on that, probability of instrumentation surviving the impact could be deduced ?
Wouldn't it be great if a black-box kind of equipment would be automatically be jettisoned on first impact and be immediately available to rely last moments of the mother-ship to an orbiter ?

They have not made contact with the lander. They are sending signals to it and listening for any replies, so far, they have heard none. They say they have taken images of the lander with the orbiter, and have said that the images show the lander is a single piece, but have not released any pictures to the public so far.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: ZachS09 on 09/10/2019 09:10 pm
Why would they NOT release the pictures publicly? Is it because the pics are intended to be classified?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Star One on 09/10/2019 09:46 pm
Why would they NOT release the pictures publicly? Is it because the pics are intended to be classified?

Why would they be classified?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: ZachS09 on 09/10/2019 09:51 pm
Why would they NOT release the pictures publicly? Is it because the pics are intended to be classified?

Why would they be classified?

It’s just an assumption. I literally don’t know why ISRO is not releasing the pics yet.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: whitelancer64 on 09/10/2019 09:58 pm
Why would they NOT release the pictures publicly? Is it because the pics are intended to be classified?

Why would they be classified?

It’s just an assumption. I literally don’t know why ISRO is not releasing the pics yet.

ISRO is about as transparent as China is WRT its space missions operations.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: badrix on 09/11/2019 03:36 am
Can someone show me where exactly the antenna of the lander lies ? does it transmit in S band or L Band ? or both? are the antennas in two different sides of the Lander ?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Vikranth on 09/11/2019 10:19 am
Can someone show me where exactly the antenna of the lander lies ? does it transmit in S band or L Band ? or both? are the antennas in two different sides of the Lander ?
I think it is this one.
About the Bands,i came across a news article that tells the lander has X-Band communicator.
https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/bangalore/others/x-band-isros-last-hope-for-lander-vikram/articleshow/71071982.cms
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/11/2019 06:10 pm
Can someone show me where exactly the antenna of the lander lies ? does it transmit in S band or L Band ? or both? are the antennas in two different sides of the Lander ?

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-isro-is-trying-to-talk-with-vikram-but-how/articleshow/71062604.cms

Quote
Vikram is equipped with three transponders and a phased array antenna — the dome type structure on top of it. The lander will have to use these to receive signals, decipher it and talk back.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/11/2019 08:22 pm
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/focus-on-future-missions-sivan-tells-scientists-in-internal-address/articleshow/71081997.cms

Quote
BENGALURU: K Sivan, chairman, Isro, which has been analysing the reasons behind the unsuccessful soft-landing of Vikram, the lander on Chandrayaan-2 on September 7, has told scientists to move and focus on upcoming projects, the TOI has learnt.

Sivan addressed scientists and engineers at Isro on Monday (September 9) and conveyed the same, even as the internal failure analysis committee (FAC) probes into the events that led to the change in trajectory and eventual crash landing of Vikram. At least two people who heard the address confirmed it to TOI.

“Our chairman addressed us through the internal network. He concluded that Chandrayaan-2 is done with 100% success for orbiter science and 95% success for landing technology. Instead of soft landing we have done hard landing. He told us not to worry and instead concentrate on lined up projects,” an Isro scientist told TOI.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: georgegassaway on 09/12/2019 01:12 am
Landings are PASS/FAIL. 

 "95% successful landing" for a high-speed impact smashed lander is ridiculous.

Do or do not, there is no 95%.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: punder on 09/12/2019 01:49 am
There most certainly is success in getting a nation's first lunar lander 95% of the way there, or however you want to score it. This is a major achievement that will inform India's subsequent space efforts. They are not done.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/12/2019 02:04 am
https://twitter.com/Ryan_N_Watkins/status/1171843659542814720
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/12/2019 02:27 am
"Landings are PASS/FAIL.

 "95% successful landing" for a high-speed impact smashed lander is ridiculous.

Do or do not, there is no 95%."

That's not the 95%.  It's 95% of the mission that is successful - probably meaning that over time 95% of the mission's science goals will be met.  A very capable orbiter operating for more than a year gives a lot more data than a short-lived lander and rover.  So in those terms 95% is pretty reasonable.

Do or do not, but if you do and things don't work out as planned, don't be afraid to claim a reasonable level of success.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/12/2019 05:31 am
Found few pictures of Vikram lander scale model that was tested by ISRO back in 2018. This scale model had 4 main engines instead of 5; it means this lander could the one before redesign that added 5th engine at the centre. In the smaller image, we can see lander hung by ropes (crane?) with engines and thrusters in action.

Also, guidance sensors were tested by mounting them on a small aircraft/plane and descending from 7km to 1km and measuring sensor data: https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/lunar-lander-faces-crucial-test/article25580600.ece

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/12/2019 12:52 pm
Landings are PASS/FAIL. 

 "95% successful landing" for a high-speed impact smashed lander is ridiculous.

Do or do not, there is no 95%.

Depends on what their success criteria were, as laid out beforehand. Of course what everybody wished for was an actual survivable landing after which some science can be produced - but the engineering challenges overcome until there may have been worth it, even if some parts failed, and especially so if the lander stayed in a recognizable form (vs confetti).

As a first mission, Vikram has demonstrated important capabilities:

- Separated lander craft navigation in lunar orbit.
- Multi-module separations in deep space.
- Precision deorbit and descent.
- Rough braking maneuver.
- Mode switch (rough-fine) and telemetry on fine braking maneuvers, where unforeseen problems particular to the lunar environment were found out.
- Precision targeting (500 m off-center even after anomaly)

It didn't prove:

- Successful fine breaking.
- Hovering and autonomous hazard avoidance.
- Final descent.
- Resilience to nominal landing.

So indeed 95% seems a bit optimistic (again, it will depend on what their minimum success criteria were), I'd say 65-70% perhaps. But the success score for a first landing attempt on another celestial body is not binary.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vijyes on 09/12/2019 02:14 pm
I always wonder why the lander was not made into a ball shaped toughened cased item so that it can simply crash land and then use thrusters to rotate itself according to the required angle based on gravity of the moon as reference. Without unnecessary complications like thrust vectoring and knowing the exact gravitational field of moon etc are difficult. The lack of knowledge about moon's gravitational field is the main reason why nations fail in the first few attempt at landing on moon.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: whitelancer64 on 09/12/2019 02:39 pm
Landings are PASS/FAIL. 

 "95% successful landing" for a high-speed impact smashed lander is ridiculous.

Do or do not, there is no 95%.

If you break up all the steps from separation from the orbiter to landing into their component parts, they did do 95% of the landing. They just didn't get the last few steps for a successful soft landing.

Celebrate the successes, don't be burdened down by failure. Looking at it as a 100% failure is both wrong and not good motivation for future endeavors.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Svetoslav on 09/12/2019 02:59 pm
It depends on the criteria. Several years ago I wrote for The Space Review that Schiaparelli's impact shouldn't be considered a failure, but as a partial success. However, the case was different. Schiaparelli wasn't even considered a lander, but an EDL demonstrator. It has only a modest scientific package and even lacked a surface camera. The focus was on testing technologies that would help ExoMars 2020 happen.

As for Chandrayaan-2: the program was focused on post-surface operations and they had a rover. The impact destroyed the surface instruments and the rover. And while the science program was supposed to last 15 days, nobody has ever landed near the South pole and it's a huge loss.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: eeergo on 09/12/2019 03:11 pm
I always wonder why the lander was not made into a ball shaped toughened cased item so that it can simply crash land and then use thrusters to rotate itself according to the required angle based on gravity of the moon as reference. Without unnecessary complications like thrust vectoring and knowing the exact gravitational field of moon etc are difficult. The lack of knowledge about moon's gravitational field is the main reason why nations fail in the first few attempt at landing on moon.

This failure wasn't a case of gravitational uncertainties. Plus those are well mapped nowadays, and wouldn't pose a problem in short time periods - just affect the longevity ELLOs (Extremely-Low Lunar Orbits).

Neglecting the fact that such a "ball shaped" lander's mission would be severely handicapped beyond landing because of its sturdiness - how can it use its trusters if they need an exterior exhaust nozzle and that just crashed into the ground? In any case, with the latest hard data we have available, Vikram's speed at touchdown in excess of >200 km/h wouldn't have allowed for a survivable touchdown of any meaningful lander, unless it was a penetrator (or a Soviet football https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_2).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: libra on 09/12/2019 04:15 pm
Schrödinger’s lander

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3789/1

It summarizes the present lander situation excellently. Neither dead nor alive so far.  ::)

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: anon1920 on 09/12/2019 06:18 pm
I do not know everything that happened, but if you look at the graph at the end: When the green trace drifts off of red flight plan, you can actually see it drifting off a bit and merging back with red flight plan for a small duration before drifting off and crashing.

This indicates a positive course correction. So perhaps the onboard control systems (AI image processing, control algorithms, variable thrust propulsion) did kick in and work for few seconds. As it neared the lunar surface its thrusting and steering decision just went awry.

Which brings me to two potential root cause in my hypothesis:

1. Bad control algorithms (Too much oscillation): If true this is a rookie mistake for a big space agency like ISRO.
2. More realistically bad image data for control algorithms.

(2) seems far more likely as south pole is uncharted territory and moon-dust, bad light, crater features etc... could all degrade image data.

ISRO knowing that it has master hold over rocketry and propulsion, I am not willing to put my money on problems with propulsion systems.

So I proclaim it is a bad input data problem! 
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: tleski on 09/12/2019 10:21 pm

[...]
2. More realistically bad image data for control algorithms.
[...]


I don't think lander navigation at this point is image driven. It makes more sense that image analysis is used for hazard avoidance at much lower altitudes. It looks like it was an issue with the attitude control and/or thrust since it looks like the lander started tumbling when it was at more than 2 km. As far as I understand how it works at this point inertial navigation systems and maybe radar should generate the the main input for control algorithms. One of these sensors or software may have malfunctioned.

Not an engineer, so I may be totally wrong.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: anon1920 on 09/13/2019 01:03 am

I don't think lander navigation at this point is image driven. It makes more sense that image analysis is used for hazard avoidance at much lower altitudes. It looks like it was an issue with the attitude control and/or thrust since it looks like the lander started tumbling when it was at more than 2 km. As far as I understand how it works at this point inertial navigation systems and maybe radar should generate the the main input for control algorithms. One of these sensors or software may have malfunctioned.

Not an engineer, so I may be totally wrong.

Aww! Very sad. My question to space experts is how can lunar landing scenario be emulated on earth? Is it possible to make full simulation of real lander/rover on earth to reduce failure probability considerably?

Their inertial navigation system is undoubtedly reliable as it has been perfected for ICBM program. So I wouldn't suspect that either.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sanman on 09/13/2019 05:39 am
Just a speculation, but it seemed like things were going reasonably alright during the Rough Braking phase, but then the problems started when it transitioned from Rough Braking to Fine Braking.

So I'd imagine that Rough Braking has thrust changes of longer duration but done less frequently.
And then Fine Braking would be thrust changes of shorter duration and done more frequently.

In retrospect, would it have been better to have a sliding scale transition from Rough Braking towards Fine Braking, rather than an abrupt switchover?
Why even have 2 distinct phases of Rough & Fine in the first place?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: ChrisWilson68 on 09/13/2019 06:47 am
"Landings are PASS/FAIL.

 "95% successful landing" for a high-speed impact smashed lander is ridiculous.

Do or do not, there is no 95%."

That's not the 95%.  It's 95% of the mission that is successful - probably meaning that over time 95% of the mission's science goals will be met.  A very capable orbiter operating for more than a year gives a lot more data than a short-lived lander and rover.  So in those terms 95% is pretty reasonable.

Do or do not, but if you do and things don't work out as planned, don't be afraid to claim a reasonable level of success.

No.  The 95% claim wasn't 95% of the mission was successful.  It was that specifically 95% of the lander portion was successful.

Quote
Chandrayaan-2 is done with 100% success for orbiter science and 95% success for landing technology

Maybe 95% of the components of the lander worked correctly.  But claiming a 95% success rate from that is not being very truthful.  It's as if SpaceX had claimed 95% success for the first Falcon 1 launch because only one small bolt failed and 95% of the hardware worked correctly.

I think it's shame that they had to go and claim 95% success for the lander.  They got quite close to landing.  It's commendable.  But then they have to go and tarnish that partial success by claiming it was more successful that it actually was.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: ncb1397 on 09/13/2019 06:57 am
LRO will get an image on the 17th:

Quote
Noah Petro, LRO’s project scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, said that the orbiter is due to fly over the Vikram landing site Tuesday, Sept. 17.

“Per NASA policy, all LRO data are publicly available,” Petro wrote in an email. “NASA will share any before and after flyover imagery of the area around the targeted Chandrayaan 2 Vikram lander landing site to support analysis by the Indian Space Research Organization.”
https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/09/12/nasa-lunar-orbiter-to-image-chandrayaan-2-landing-site-next-week/
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Liss on 09/13/2019 07:13 am
Why even have 2 distinct phases of Rough & Fine in the first place?
Consider this timeline.
(B) Rough braking is 4x800 N engines in full thrust to cancel the orbital velocity.
(D) Fine braking is only 2x800 N engines in throttle mode to come to final hovering, landing spot selection and landing (with one more engine on -- or only one?).
Between the two, (C) phase is what was labeled as CAM coasting phase. I understood that it was to transit from first guidance mode (based on state vector at braking start and prone to errors due to deviation in burn start time, thrust etc.) to second mode (based on landing spot position). In the CAM coasting phase at constant attitude (50° from horizon, not from vertical line as shown in picture), the pattern matching camera was to see the selected spot, which triggered the fine braking phase.
From the TV report I conclude that the fine braking phase did start and very soon the failure in attitude occured.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sanman on 09/13/2019 07:29 am

(D) Fine braking is only 2x800 N engines in throttle mode to come to final hovering, landing spot selection and landing (with one more engine on -- or only one?).

How would you keep something from tumbling with only 2 thrusters? Wouldn't you need at least 3 to form a plane?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Silmfeanor on 09/13/2019 07:40 am

(D) Fine braking is only 2x800 N engines in throttle mode to come to final hovering, landing spot selection and landing (with one more engine on -- or only one?).

How would you keep something from tumbling with only 2 thrusters? Wouldn't you need at least 3 to form a plane?
These are braking thrusters; there is a seperate attitude system which keeps the lander oriented. The 2 thrusters are in a line which passes the center of mass, just like for example the RD180 works.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: chota on 09/13/2019 12:36 pm
Some useful information by Tapan Misra, Senior Advisor to ISRO

On Big and Small Thrusters
> The lander Vikram has five big (800 Newton) thrusters and eight small thrusters
> Big thrusters are kept for braking/hovering and small thrusters are meant for orientation change and hovering
> The five big thrusters are positioned as: four at corners and one at centre
> The resultant thrust of four corner ones, if fired equally, will combine in vertical direction, providing opposing force and the resultant vertical axis of vector will pass through centre of gravity, providing stability
> if one or more of them are not operating simultaneously or there is imbalance in thrust output among them, the resultant uncompensated horizontal force will spin the lander in horizontal plane. This will trigger spinning in vertical plane
> In fact, the controlled spinning by throttling is used to aid programmed tilting of the lander in the braking phase
> If spinning in two orthogonal plane goes out of control, it will essentially tumble down the lander
> Tumbling of lander with thrusters on, will make things very complex
> The result will be simultaneous tumbling and zig zag random motion of lander, beyond the control of on-board control system
> So, throttling of the four thrusters is a critical activity

What happens during Braking
> The first phase of braking phase lasts from 30 km altitude to 400 m altitude where velocity is reduced from 1.66 km/sec (6,000 km/hr) to 60 m/sec (200 km/ hour)
> Orientation of lander is changed from horizontal to vertical
> Throughout this period four corner thrusters are operated to brake and central thruster is switched off
> At 400 m height, the second phase of braking starts
> The lander is vertical, two of four corner thrusters are switched off simultaneously and two diagonal thrusters are switched on
> By the time lander descends to 100 m, these two thrusters brake lander to reduce vertical speed from 60 m/sec at 400 m height to less than 2 m/sec at 100 m heigh
> The braking control from 30 km height to 100 m is carried out by a series of time tagged commands, loaded in the lander a few hours before operation from ground
> They are generated based on precise measurement of lander orbit, prior to de-orbitting
> When lander reaches 100 m height, the lander is three axis stabilised and it essentially floats
> Moon’s gravity is compensated by upward thrust of two diagonal thrusters
> Small thrusters are used to move lander sidewise
> The camera on lander takes photograph of lunar surface below
> The resultant image is matched with stored images of landing site (captured by high resolution camera of orbiter earlier) and horizontal movement of lander is controlled
> By slowly reducing vertical thrust by central thruster, lander is slowly descended
> Radar altimeter keeps an eye on true altitude of the lander. This mode is called hovering mode. This is the most complex mode and fully autonomous
> Just five seconds before landing, the two diagonal thrusters are switched off and central thruster is switched on

Why the middle engine was introduced
> It was apprehended that two corner thrusters, if active will blow the moon dust and it will create a centre jet upwards, covering the lander with dust
> So central thruster will reduce this upward jet. All landers need to be prepared to operate under dusty condition at the last moment of landing

Effects of fuel sloshing in the fuel tank
> When lander accelerates, decelerates, because of inertia, the liquid fuel gets into sloshing, akin to splashing of water in a tub
> Sloshing becomes severe as more and more fuel depletes in fuel tank, making life difficult.
> It may so happen that engine nozzle feed will be starved of fuel resulting in uncontrolled throttling

Source
https://www.thehitavada.com/Encyc/2019/9/13/ISRO-expert-explains-Vikram.html (https://www.thehitavada.com/Encyc/2019/9/13/ISRO-expert-explains-Vikram.html)

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Liss on 09/13/2019 01:17 pm
I also wonder of the rough braking start procedure.
From the TV report I found that time zero was 01:47:53 UST (20:17:53 UTC).
Nevertheless, the actual rough braking start shown at the left screen was 01:48:03 IST (20:18:03 UTC).
So, was it nominal that the engine start occured at the +0:00:10 moment?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Blackstar on 09/13/2019 03:07 pm
https://www.indiatoday.in/science/story/chandrayaan-2-vikram-landing-somersault-isro-exlusive-1598882-2019-09-13?fbclid=IwAR1Oi-CXDaVhmhWqANSnG_kpGAtLrU7fH_JYTPXUCDjhc8c-5VpjoJdrWXk

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Liss on 09/13/2019 04:28 pm
https://www.indiatoday.in/science/story/chandrayaan-2-vikram-landing-somersault-isro-exlusive-1598882-2019-09-13?fbclid=IwAR1Oi-CXDaVhmhWqANSnG_kpGAtLrU7fH_JYTPXUCDjhc8c-5VpjoJdrWXk
I don't think this analysis is good enough.

Quote
This was clearly visible in the final readings sent by Vikram -- at 11 minutes and 28 seconds after beginning its descent, Vikram's vertical velocity (the speed with which it was descending on to the Moon) was 42.9 metres per second. A minute and a half later, the speed dramatically increased to 58.9 metres per second.

The 11:28 data can be probably considered as good -- Vh = 65.7 m/s, Vv = 42.9 m/s, D=3.42 km, H=3.975 km.
The 12:56 data (a minute and a half later) can not. Yes, this was the time we were shown the whole screen (48.1 m/s, 59.0 m/s, 1.09 km, H=0.335 km), but this height value was in fact first shown at 12:23 (and this was not the time it was first displayed too).
If we take height display only...
11:28 -- 3975 m
11:41 -- 2733
11:48 -- 2060
11:55 -- 1334
we see fast and unexplained hike in vertical velocity from 59 to 95 m/s which then remains almost constant. It's just not physical. Also, we know from K.Sivan that they lost data from 2100 meters. One may ask what was the source for the height marks lower than this one.
So, I'd rather think we just have no reliable data after the 11:28 mark.

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: abcd_indya on 09/14/2019 05:29 pm
ISRO claims that they had orbiter roughly around the same spot as the lander (infact its orbit was modified for just that via last unplanned maneuver) during its last decent phase. Also it is supposed to be over the same spot every 3 days. Additionally it is supposed to have the best camera (with 0.3 meters resolution) in orbit around the moon. Yet, it is going to rely on LRO for before and after pictures! Sounds weird to me. Additionally what beats me is complete lack of any major picture so far from the mission. I hope all is ok with orbiter as well ?


LRO will get an image on the 17th:

Quote
Noah Petro, LRO’s project scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, said that the orbiter is due to fly over the Vikram landing site Tuesday, Sept. 17.

“Per NASA policy, all LRO data are publicly available,” Petro wrote in an email. “NASA will share any before and after flyover imagery of the area around the targeted Chandrayaan 2 Vikram lander landing site to support analysis by the Indian Space Research Organization.”
https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/09/12/nasa-lunar-orbiter-to-image-chandrayaan-2-landing-site-next-week/
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Svetoslav on 09/14/2019 05:43 pm
ISRO claims that they had orbiter roughly around the same spot as the lander (infact its orbit was modified for just that via last unplanned maneuver) during its last decent phase. Also it is supposed to be over the same spot every 3 days. Additionally it is supposed to have the best camera (with 0.3 meters resolution) in orbit around the moon. Yet, it is going to rely on LRO for before and after pictures! Sounds weird to me. Additionally what beats me is complete lack of any major picture so far from the mission. I hope all is ok with orbiter as well ?

It's just ISRO doesn't release the pictures on time, that's it.

I remember the first Chandrayaan in 2008. They had a small impactor - MIP. After impact, they did publish 2 pictures, but that was everything. Everyone wanted to see more pics or the landing video, and ISRO refused to release it.

And it was horrible back in 2007, 2008 and the first half of 2009, before LRO. India, Japan and China all explored the moon, and they didn't publish their photos on time.

That's why it's important to have Western missions to the Moon. Not just Western, but American. Because I'm European and ESA is as bad as China when it comes to timely release of photos.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/14/2019 08:04 pm
Part of the MIP descent video was shown on Indian TV - I can't find it now, but I saw it at the time and used screen grabs to extract the images and mosaic them over a base map.  The video was really difficult to watch because the descending probe rotated for stability and the scene flashed around rapidly.  That's why it was not shown much. 

The problem with it is that there are other ways to use the images, including the mosaic I made and a potential animation where the images would be map-projected and added to the base map one at a time, letting the imaged area expand across the map.  The mission team, engineers and scientists, couldn't see that so they never released the images for others to use, not understanding that others might have different ideas about how to use them. 

In fact, though the mission's data are released for anyone to use, the MIP images were not included in the database.  I requested them and nearly got them but ultimately it never happened.  ISRO, up your outreach!  The good publicity you would get from it would make you look a lot better.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Astro_Neel on 09/15/2019 03:02 am
Since we're talking about Chandrayaan-1 and MIP here, here's something I've got-

Selected images from the Chandrayaan-1 (388.5 MB) - https://vedas.sac.gov.in/vedas/downloads/atlas/Planetary/Moon_English.pdf (See from page 117)

Chandrayaan-1 Lunar Science Atlas, Version 2015 (70 MB)- https://vedas.sac.gov.in/vedas/downloads/atlas/Planetary/lunar_science_atlas_version_2015.pdf (See page 92)

Images from the M3 onboard Chandrayaan-1- https://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/instrument/Moon%2BMineralogy%2BMapper

Link to Chandrayaan-1 Long Term Archive (from ISRO's Science Data Archive) - https://webapps.issdc.gov.in/CHBrowse/index.jsp (Requires sign-up)

Full Data Archive of Moon Mineralogy Mapper (M3) and Mini-SAR onboard Chandrayaan-1 (from NASA's PDS Geosciences Node)- https://ode.rsl.wustl.edu/moon/indexDataSets.aspx

Also, have a look at these videos. (The title text in Hindi in the first video below says "Separation of MIP from Chandrayaan-1")
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: chetan_chpd on 09/15/2019 04:06 am
Thanks astro_neel from @hindusthaani1 😉😉😉

Btw...isro track record of sharing images and videos is poor compared to nasa, agreed!
but things are only getting better from 2014-2015...rocket launches were happening from the 80’s but onboard camera views got released only few years back for the first time...

Isro like many other govt entities + indian economy itself came out from socialist style culture only 15-20 years ago...and things improve very slowly here

I am sure chandrayaan 2 mission related things will get out in coming months, surely faster compared with chandrayaan 1 but not at the speed expected by space enthusiast in this fast internet era
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: georgegassaway on 09/15/2019 06:53 am
But the success score for a first landing attempt on another celestial body is not binary.

Space landings are binary. Did it land softly enough to survive? 

Pick one:    Yes / No

If Apollo-11's Eagle  had made it under control for 95% of the descent, then something went horribly wrong in the last 5% and crashed at 100 mph, would NASA have gotten away with claiming the crashed mission with a dead crew was a 95% successful landing?

If there are 20 things that have to go right to land safely, and only just 1 of those 20 things go wrong to make it crash, that's still a 100% crash, not a 5% crash.

The 95% successful landing thing was made-up public relations face-saving hogwash.

Otherwise, pretty much every space landing mission that had just one thing go awry that doomed it, could be called a 90-99.9% "success".

I WISH it had landed safely. Same for Israel's.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/15/2019 05:31 pm
But the success score for a first landing attempt on another celestial body is not binary.

Space landings are binary.
Are you talking about touch-down or about landing sequence?
They are two different things.
C2 landing sequence was perfect for 95% of it's course.
C2 touchdown was 100% failure if contact will never be established, else any value between 0 and 99 if just one telemetry comes from the lander.

You can measure percentage of success of a touch down from how many of on-board systems do survive.

If C2 was "rolling" during landing, it means that in a certain moment the engine was pushing it downward, then it was pushing left, then up again, then right, then down again.... but in those last 2.1km it landed at just 0.5 km from it planned landing point: I think this does not match with an uncontrolled and continuous rolling, so possibly at some time the onboard guidance computer took back the control of the thruster: too late for a perfect landing, but possibly not too late to slow down enough to keep C2 from disintegrating on ground; so it could be 57%or 21% or 34% operational, with broken legs, locked rover-door, unusable rover, mis-oriented antenna, but operational scientific instruments and radio.

By the way: at 2.1 km it did NOT occur the LOS: it occurred at 0.338 km (or something like that, I don't remember exact figures), we've seen last screenshot of telemetries; at 2.1 km the mis-behaviour started instead.
It must be like that, because the images by sure were NOT from a simulator: which simulator would ever show a  C2 rolling in the space?!?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Hungry4info3 on 09/16/2019 03:32 am
It could if the most recent data before LOS showed a slight pitch and the simulator just continued with extrapolating from the most recent valid state.

We could speculate on this for another ten pages without getting anywhere productive. I'm just going to wait on official word from ISRO, or when LRO imagery is released, showing what is almost certainly a crash site.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: abcd_indya on 09/16/2019 08:34 pm
Check these tweets out around measurement of Orbiter's orbit. Seems to be decaying. Hopefully on purpose!

https://twitter.com/df2mz?lang=en

ISRO claims that they had orbiter roughly around the same spot as the lander (infact its orbit was modified for just that via last unplanned maneuver) during its last decent phase. Also it is supposed to be over the same spot every 3 days. Additionally it is supposed to have the best camera (with 0.3 meters resolution) in orbit around the moon. Yet, it is going to rely on LRO for before and after pictures! Sounds weird to me. Additionally what beats me is complete lack of any major picture so far from the mission. I hope all is ok with orbiter as well ?

It's just ISRO doesn't release the pictures on time, that's it.

I remember the first Chandrayaan in 2008. They had a small impactor - MIP. After impact, they did publish 2 pictures, but that was everything. Everyone wanted to see more pics or the landing video, and ISRO refused to release it.

And it was horrible back in 2007, 2008 and the first half of 2009, before LRO. India, Japan and China all explored the moon, and they didn't publish their photos on time.

That's why it's important to have Western missions to the Moon. Not just Western, but American. Because I'm European and ESA is as bad as China when it comes to timely release of photos.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/16/2019 08:55 pm
Well, Astro-Neel, that MIP descent video is very interesting.  The first images are on the floor of Malapert crater.  I don't know yet how far it extends south of there, but there might be some hope of refining the impact point with them.  All other images I have seen are north of there, ending in Malapert.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/17/2019 06:30 am
Check these tweets out around measurement of Orbiter's orbit. Seems to be decaying. Hopefully on purpose!

https://twitter.com/df2mz?lang=en
NASA Horizons official data (https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons_batch.cgi?batch=1&MAKE_EPHEM=%27YES%27&TABLE_TYPE=%27VECTORS%27&OUT_UNITS=%27KM-S%27&REF_SYSTEM=%27J2000%27&VEC_LABELS=%27YES%27&CSV_FORMAT=%27YES%27&OBJ_DATA=%27YES%27&VEC_TABLE=%273%27&STEP_SIZE=%271m%27&START_TIME=%272019-9-20%2000:00%27&STOP_TIME=%272019-Sep-22%2005:45%27&COMMAND=%27-152%27&CENTER=%27@301%27):
(https://i.imgur.com/fdXdTT1.png)

Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: ncb1397 on 09/17/2019 07:19 am
LRO should be getting super close in the next 40 minutes (7:50 UTC/3:50 Eastern time). Below is a map with LRO in red, and the crash zone in blue. The altitude of the pass will be 63 km, so it should get higher resolution images. In this case, it will be couple of degrees to the east and south on closest approach.  I estimate it will pass about 120 kilometers away from the crash zone on this approach but the orbit will move about half a degree in longitude each hour. So, we should get the money shot from directly overhead in the next 8 hours or so (~noon eastern time).
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Ken the Bin on 09/17/2019 01:59 pm
It's too bad that they didn't provide some actual information.

https://twitter.com/isro/status/1173948363886063616 (https://twitter.com/isro/status/1173948363886063616)

Quote from: ISRO
Thank you for standing by us. We will continue to keep going forward — propelled by the hopes and dreams of Indians across the world!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: ncb1397 on 09/17/2019 05:06 pm
So, the pass at ~17:37 UTC is very close. Below is a map with 70.9 degrees south and 22.8 degrees east at the intersection of the blue lines. LRO would be about 30 km to the north/west on closest approach at an altitude of 62-63 km(it can take off axis images). Still, that is only a distance from spacecraft to spacecraft of 70 km. The previous orbit which I wasn't able to capture on the LRO tracking website would be the best image though.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: vyoma on 09/17/2019 11:18 pm
https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/science/chandrayaan-2-isro-panel-to-release-report-on-vikram-lander-soon-6004482/

Quote
But a source said an internal ISRO committee, constituted to go into the likely reasons for the failure in making the soft-landing, was likely to submit its findings “very soon”, possibly within the next couple of days. The source said the committee had met a few times and almost finalised its conclusions.

“The report is expected to be made public in a few days after going through the proper channels,” the source said.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Astro_Neel on 09/18/2019 12:10 am
I don't know yet how far it extends south of there, but there might be some hope of refining the impact point with them.  All other images I have seen are north of there, ending in Malapert.

Well, we already know the impact point. It's called "Jawahar Point" (or "Jawahar Sthal" in Hindi), named after the first Prime Minister of India- Jawahar Lal Nehru.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawahar_Point

It's located at 89.76°S, 39.40°W, a point that is merely 7.278 km (4.52 miles) away from the South Pole in the North-East direction of the Shackleton Crater. https://bit.ly/2mjY5Lv

So in retrospect, ISRO has already (hard) landed an object closest to the South Pole than ever (even closer than LCROSS and Lunar Prospector) before it was going to soft land a rover closest to it.

Also here's the link to the registration and other details of the impact point submitted by India to the UN Commitee on the Peaceful Uses of the Outer Space (UNOOSA)- http://www.unoosa.org/documents/pdf/ser570E.pdf
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: abcd_indya on 09/18/2019 06:11 am
Not so good news, LRO fails to find Vikram lander in its images due to long shadow cast in the region !

https://aviationweek.com/awinspace/nasa-s-lro-fails-spot-chandrayaan-2-lander
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Slothman on 09/18/2019 06:51 am
Are all of the LRO (raw) images somewhere public to see? Or do they only release specific images whenever they want?
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/18/2019 07:19 am
Astro_neel, we have those coordinates, but not an image of the impact 'crater' (or splat), so it is only an estimate.  We don't know how accurately the trajectory was known, and we don't know what topographic model was used to determine it.  The last few images might help locate the impact point if they could be found on LRO images. 

The UNOOSA report says that the name Jawahar Point has been approved by the IAU, but this is not correct.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/18/2019 11:05 am
These is the place where new images are posted, even before they appear in the "official catalog":
https://www.lroc.asu.edu/posts/

You have just to add a number at the end of the URL; currently last active number is 1122, posted August 09, 2019 16:42 UTC:
https://www.lroc.asu.edu/posts/1122
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/18/2019 03:56 pm
Are all of the LRO (raw) images somewhere public to see? Or do they only release specific images whenever they want?

Go here:

https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/

This website is like Google Maps - you can pan and zoom anywhere you like.  As you zoom in a long way you get an overlay of Narrow Angle images.  The menu at left lets you change map projection (e.g to see the far side or poles), lets you add overlays like names, lat-long grid, different base images, different lighting and other datasets, and lets you select a small area and query high resolution coverage within it, with links to individual images and the ability to download raw data.  Everything is open and freely available.  Explore!
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: spacexplorer on 09/18/2019 06:45 pm
Are all of the LRO (raw) images somewhere public to see? Or do they only release specific images whenever they want?

Go here:

https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/
This  (http://target.lroc.asu.edu/fcgi-bin/fprovweb.exe?_xtype=text/html&lon=-39.40&lat=-89.76&cmd=include+%22lroc_test_extract_data_at_ll.msh%22)should be a direct link to images available for landing site 89.76S, 39.40W,  this  (https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/?extent=-125.6506017,-87.8288423,53.5759686,-87.0785772&camera=25713.706287137262,-18707.700816862245,-1849633.2937435876,6.2831853071795845,-1.5707963267948966,0&proj=22&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLrc0A)a link to a 3d overview of the area and this  (https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/query?extent=-111.3695103,-89.5756107,111.4399862,-89.5566724&proj=17&features=-43.02135618,-89.84115010,-6.06069996,-89.85307338,37.05516441,-89.89229622,50.53664039,-89.95475549,-69.29322925,-89.93896601,-69.20617876,-89.87797455,-43.02135618,-89.84115010&selected=0&query=95&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLrc0A)a south-polar projection of the area with list of available pictures.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: sturmanskie on 09/18/2019 10:35 pm
Guess the wait for image data of the supposed crash landing site just got 1 lunar night longer -https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/why-nasas-lunar-orbiter-failed-to-take-a-clear-picture-of-chandrayaan-2s-vikram-lander (https://swarajyamag.com/news-brief/why-nasas-lunar-orbiter-failed-to-take-a-clear-picture-of-chandrayaan-2s-vikram-lander). Hope ISRO makes its investigation report public with all available image data.  :(
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: abcd_indya on 09/19/2019 05:09 am
Interesting news article revealing that Vikram's hard landing has left a crater exposing underlying layer to potentially reveal water trapped underneath the external layer! Seems like it definitely bounced off after the impact. Hard to believe that it would still be intact! ISRO is definitely hiding more things than what one might seem to think ...

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2019/sep/18/chandrayaan-2-hard-landing-of-vikram-to-help-orbiter-look-for-water-on-moon-says-isro-2035311.html

While it is definitely a huge milestone from ISRO and pride for what is has done for India, it has still spent $140M+ of public's money and needs to do much more better job of sharing information...
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Pete on 09/19/2019 06:26 am
Interesting news article ...

Given that the article quotes the impact mass as 1471kg, (meaning it burned off ZERO of its fuel!)
I think we can take this statement with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Ken the Bin on 09/19/2019 01:07 pm
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1174653621247430657 (https://twitter.com/isro/status/1174653621247430657)

Quote from: ISRO
#Chandrayaan2 Orbiter continues to perform scheduled science experiments to complete satisfaction. More details on https://bit.ly/2kUiM06
Meanwhile, the National committee of academicians and ISRO experts is analysing the cause of communication loss with #VikramLander
Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
Post by: Ken the Bin on 09/19/2019 01:14 pm
Update on Chandrayaan – 2 (https://www.isro.gov.in/update/19-sep-2019/update-chandrayaan-%E2%80%93-2)

Quote from: ISRO
  • All Payloads of orbiter are powered.
  • Initial trials for orbiter Payloads are completed successfully.
  • Performance of all orbiter Payloads is satisfactory.
  • Orbiter continues to perform scheduled science experiments to complete satisfaction.
  • National level committee consisting of academicians and ISRO experts are analyzing the cause of communication loss with lander.
  • Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 09/19/2019 01:15 pm
    I made an estimate of the impact site.
    Landing site
    70.90267°S 22.78110°E
    impact 1 km before

    zoom in quickmap:
    https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/query?extent=16.6637939,-72.3982297,27.6016411,-69.3347495&proj=17&features=22.78111394,-70.90269379|22.78107852,-70.90268212,22.79379670,-70.93540720&selected=1&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLraQJlLjIgiLgBwDMGRWOw4cU1JwFccF6822QA (https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/query?extent=16.6637939,-72.3982297,27.6016411,-69.3347495&proj=17&features=22.78111394,-70.90269379|22.78107852,-70.90268212,22.79379670,-70.93540720&selected=1&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLraQJlLjIgiLgBwDMGRWOw4cU1JwFccF6822QA)
    + 7.7°
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 09/19/2019 06:10 pm
    I made an estimate of the impact site.
    Landing site
    70.90267°S 22.78110°E
    What about this post?
    Quote
    Well, we already know the impact point. It's called "Jawahar Point" (or "Jawahar Sthal" in Hindi), named after the first Prime Minister of India- Jawahar Lal Nehru.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawahar_Point

    It's located at 89.76°S, 39.40°W, a point that is merely 7.278 km (4.52 miles) away from the South Pole in the North-East direction of the Shackleton Crater. https://bit.ly/2mjY5Lv
    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1993522#msg1993522
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: ncb1397 on 09/19/2019 07:48 pm
    I made an estimate of the impact site.
    Landing site
    70.90267°S 22.78110°E
    What about this post?
    Quote
    Well, we already know the impact point. It's called "Jawahar Point" (or "Jawahar Sthal" in Hindi), named after the first Prime Minister of India- Jawahar Lal Nehru.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawahar_Point

    It's located at 89.76°S, 39.40°W, a point that is merely 7.278 km (4.52 miles) away from the South Pole in the North-East direction of the Shackleton Crater. https://bit.ly/2mjY5Lv
    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1993522#msg1993522

    One set of coordinates refers to the moon impact probe on the Chandrayaan-1 mission. The 2nd set is the lander on the Chandrayaan-2 mission.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 09/19/2019 08:23 pm
    I made an estimate of the impact site.
    Landing site
    70.90267°S 22.78110°E

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrayaan-2#Planned_landing_site
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/20/2019 07:38 pm
    This may help locate the target.

    If my Hindi labels are wrong, please let me know.



    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 09/21/2019 01:37 am
    If I understood the map well, the Vicram flew through the landing spot and landed behind it?
    I look forward to the ISRO announcement.

    Edit:
    Target area. Yes.
    At first, I understood the point of impact,
    I am more interested in the impact site.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/22/2019 07:28 am
    I'm sure we are all more interested in the impact site, and it will be added when we know where it is.  Is there a reason to think the lander fell south of the target rather than north?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: vyoma on 09/22/2019 08:29 am
    Former SAC director Tapan Misra had this to say: https://www.facebook.com/tapan.misra.9/posts/10216052091161598

    Quote
    Space Technology is not "Rocket Science"

    You are surprised with the title, isn't it? But contrary to popular beliefs, simplicity is the hall Mark of space technology, including "Rocket Science". Space Technology may be based on complex scientific knowledge and principles. But reliability is the essence of space technology. If your scooter tyre gets punctured on road, you can bring a mechanic to repair it and get going. But if something wrong happens to spacecraft, rockets - You just have to forget it.

    Near 100 percent reliability is the crying need of space science and technology. Our life experience tells, simpler the person, more reliable he is. Similarly simpler the technology, more reliable it is. Technology should be simple to understand, simple to explain, matetial should be easy ro source, easy to manufacture, operate and maintain, and preferably cheap. When you put these attributes together, you get space technology. I personally believe simplicity in the product is the mark of genius. Sharper you are, easier for you to explain even the complex subjects in layman's language. Complex way of doing things, complex way of explaining or describing things are, more often than not, signs of lesser mortals.

    Once you send machines to space, you cannot access it in person to carry out corrective measures. You must be able to imagine all possible behaviours of spacecraft in space, in harsh and unforgiving environment. So we have to test it in all possible imaginable conditions. We should test it in the sequence in which we fly to space. It has to survive harsh vibration tests, similar to the one you experience when the rocket takes of. We should test the space hardware prior to launch, in high vacuum, extreme temperatures it is going to experience. Imagination is the key. If you cannot imagine a situation of failure, you cannot make a provision to recover from anomalies in future. So the development need not be hurried through. Please remember, for reproducing a rat, it takes gestation period of 23 days. Gestation period of human being is 9 months. And you see the importance of gestation period. It should be well thought of, well debated, tested and simulated for worst and best possible cases of imagination. So when space hardware fails, more often than not, it failed in a failure condition which we could not imagine. Usually hardware never fails, but engineers behind it fail. But we should not be disheartened with failure, but take it as a learning experience. Just like a child falls and gets up and learns walking upright.

    Reliability of a product is a function of knowledge and skills of people behind it. So most important component of space industry are its people. And it is the solemn duty of managers to treat employees as valuable assets. Bossy behaviours are absolute No No. Rather managers should behave as custodians of valuable assets. It is not enough to keep the ornaments in safety. Occasionally they have to be polished to keep their lustre. So training, upgradation of knowledge have to be given great emphasis along with work environment. Success or failures of space agencies are as good as their employees and leaders.

    Culture and ethics are integral part of any successful organisation or institution. These two attributes, carried forward from one generation to another, are beautifully defined by Sanskrit word "Sanskar", roughly meaning value system. It is your "sanskar" which prevents you from doing wrong things, prevents you from betraying your mother land, helps you exhibit the rare spine to tell your boss what is right, what is wrong. Highest reliability and success of space technology is enhanced by practising right kind of "sanskar". When you start compromising with "sanskar", downhill slide of the institution begins. Initially it may be imperceptible, encouraging you to compromise further on this priceless asset. But with time, the slide picks up momentum, reaching a point of no return.

    Leadership determines the backbone of an institution. All successful institutions have one thing in common: they choose a leader who built some thing new, chosen an untrodden path, building a new one. You become a complete leader when you pass through the stages of being ignored and ridiculed for your new ideas, grudgingly accepted when you prove your point by adding value to your institution and society at large and finally admired for what you built and what you are. Leaders inspire, they do not manage. When you see a sudden spurt in emphasis on adhering to rules, sudden increase in paper work, frequent meetings, unwinding discussions, you surely know leadership is becoming rare material in your institution. Institutions do not evolve with time as they stop innovating. Ultimately, they become living fossil, footnote in history.


    When faced with spectre of failure, I take inspiration from medical professionals. You will see they are not much interested in post mortem report of the deceased, but exhibit more interest in understanding and deciphering the maze of medical reports and history. It is important to know what ails you, but more important is to understand how you contracted the disease in first place. You learn the most valuable lesson: prevention is better than cure. No point in crying when things go wrong.

    A bit of background and context about Tapan Misra, former SAC director: https://thewire.in/space/senior-isro-scientist-criticises-sivans-approach-after-moon-mission-setback

    Quote
    One of Sivan’s first decisions as the new chairman of ISRO, in mid-2018, had been to demote Misra from directorship of the SAC to being the chairman’s advisor, a role that carries no executive authority. Speculation was rife at the time that the decision had been motivated by reasons other than professional conduct – because Misra was opposed to privatisation of the Indian spaceflight programme, because the controversial GSAT-11 mission had become stalled or because of internal politics.

    After Misra’s transfer, many scientists from around India penned a letter to the President of India asking him to intervene, although such intervention never came to be.

    In his somewhat rambling Facebook post, Misra called attention to ISRO’s top-down working culture and inadequate leadership, particularly in the face of Chandrayaan 2 having failed to execute its surface mission because the lander crashed on the Moon’s surface instead of touching down.

    Around the same time Misra’s post was published, Sivan announced that Chandrayaan 2 had in fact completed 98% of its mission – a surprising claim considering one half of the mission hadn’t been executed and the scientific mission of the other half – the lunar orbiter – has only just begun its minimum lifetime of one year. Sivan had announced shortly after the lander failure on September 7 that the mission was a 95% success, itself a strongly contested number.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 09/22/2019 10:00 am
    I'm sure we are all more interested in the impact site, and it will be added when we know where it is.  Is there a reason to think the lander fell south of the target rather than north?
    Because according to live video and image:
    (https://i.imgur.com/MAxtzah.png)
      hit Vikram 1 km before the finish.

    Movement of Vikram around the Moon:

    Edit: Yes, right, north of the planned landing site
    (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/20324.0/1584647.jpg)
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sturmanskie on 09/22/2019 10:08 am
    Former SAC director Tapan Misra had this to say: https://www.facebook.com/tapan.misra.9/posts/10216052091161598

    Quote
    Space Technology is not "Rocket Science"

    You are surprised with the title, isn't it? But contrary to popular beliefs, simplicity is the hall Mark of space technology, including "Rocket Science". Space Technology may be based on complex scientific knowledge and principles. But reliability is the essence of space technology. If your scooter tyre gets punctured on road, you can bring a mechanic to repair it and get going. But if something wrong happens to spacecraft, rockets - You just have to forget it.

    Near 100 percent reliability is the crying need of space science and technology. Our life experience tells, simpler the person, more reliable he is. Similarly simpler the technology, more reliable it is. Technology should be simple to understand, simple to explain, matetial should be easy ro source, easy to manufacture, operate and maintain, and preferably cheap. When you put these attributes together, you get space technology. I personally believe simplicity in the product is the mark of genius. Sharper you are, easier for you to explain even the complex subjects in layman's language. Complex way of doing things, complex way of explaining or describing things are, more often than not, signs of lesser mortals.

    Once you send machines to space, you cannot access it in person to carry out corrective measures. You must be able to imagine all possible behaviours of spacecraft in space, in harsh and unforgiving environment. So we have to test it in all possible imaginable conditions. We should test it in the sequence in which we fly to space. It has to survive harsh vibration tests, similar to the one you experience when the rocket takes of. We should test the space hardware prior to launch, in high vacuum, extreme temperatures it is going to experience. Imagination is the key. If you cannot imagine a situation of failure, you cannot make a provision to recover from anomalies in future. So the development need not be hurried through. Please remember, for reproducing a rat, it takes gestation period of 23 days. Gestation period of human being is 9 months. And you see the importance of gestation period. It should be well thought of, well debated, tested and simulated for worst and best possible cases of imagination. So when space hardware fails, more often than not, it failed in a failure condition which we could not imagine. Usually hardware never fails, but engineers behind it fail. But we should not be disheartened with failure, but take it as a learning experience. Just like a child falls and gets up and learns walking upright.

    Reliability of a product is a function of knowledge and skills of people behind it. So most important component of space industry are its people. And it is the solemn duty of managers to treat employees as valuable assets. Bossy behaviours are absolute No No. Rather managers should behave as custodians of valuable assets. It is not enough to keep the ornaments in safety. Occasionally they have to be polished to keep their lustre. So training, upgradation of knowledge have to be given great emphasis along with work environment. Success or failures of space agencies are as good as their employees and leaders.

    Culture and ethics are integral part of any successful organisation or institution. These two attributes, carried forward from one generation to another, are beautifully defined by Sanskrit word "Sanskar", roughly meaning value system. It is your "sanskar" which prevents you from doing wrong things, prevents you from betraying your mother land, helps you exhibit the rare spine to tell your boss what is right, what is wrong. Highest reliability and success of space technology is enhanced by practising right kind of "sanskar". When you start compromising with "sanskar", downhill slide of the institution begins. Initially it may be imperceptible, encouraging you to compromise further on this priceless asset. But with time, the slide picks up momentum, reaching a point of no return.

    Leadership determines the backbone of an institution. All successful institutions have one thing in common: they choose a leader who built some thing new, chosen an untrodden path, building a new one. You become a complete leader when you pass through the stages of being ignored and ridiculed for your new ideas, grudgingly accepted when you prove your point by adding value to your institution and society at large and finally admired for what you built and what you are. Leaders inspire, they do not manage. When you see a sudden spurt in emphasis on adhering to rules, sudden increase in paper work, frequent meetings, unwinding discussions, you surely know leadership is becoming rare material in your institution. Institutions do not evolve with time as they stop innovating. Ultimately, they become living fossil, footnote in history.


    When faced with spectre of failure, I take inspiration from medical professionals. You will see they are not much interested in post mortem report of the deceased, but exhibit more interest in understanding and deciphering the maze of medical reports and history. It is important to know what ails you, but more important is to understand how you contracted the disease in first place. You learn the most valuable lesson: prevention is better than cure. No point in crying when things go wrong.

    A bit of background and context about Tapan Misra, former SAC director: https://thewire.in/space/senior-isro-scientist-criticises-sivans-approach-after-moon-mission-setback

    Quote
    One of Sivan’s first decisions as the new chairman of ISRO, in mid-2018, had been to demote Misra from directorship of the SAC to being the chairman’s advisor, a role that carries no executive authority. Speculation was rife at the time that the decision had been motivated by reasons other than professional conduct – because Misra was opposed to privatisation of the Indian spaceflight programme, because the controversial GSAT-11 mission had become stalled or because of internal politics.

    After Misra’s transfer, many scientists from around India penned a letter to the President of India asking him to intervene, although such intervention never came to be.

    In his somewhat rambling Facebook post, Misra called attention to ISRO’s top-down working culture and inadequate leadership, particularly in the face of Chandrayaan 2 having failed to execute its surface mission because the lander crashed on the Moon’s surface instead of touching down.

    Around the same time Misra’s post was published, Sivan announced that Chandrayaan 2 had in fact completed 98% of its mission – a surprising claim considering one half of the mission hadn’t been executed and the scientific mission of the other half – the lunar orbiter – has only just begun its minimum lifetime of one year. Sivan had announced shortly after the lander failure on September 7 that the mission was a 95% success, itself a strongly contested number.

    With due respect to the OP and Mr. Misra, I would wait for the ISRO team to file its failure analysis report before passing any judgement. Till such a report becomes public any failure analysis is pointless unless supported by hard data.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 09/22/2019 10:42 am
    Perhaps better to search from 5 km to the 1 km - loss of signal.

    Edit:
    incorrect picture
    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/20324.0/1583452.jpg

    right picture:
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: seshagirib on 09/24/2019 04:02 am
    What are the next day light pass times over the landing site for LRO and CY2 please?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 09/24/2019 05:29 am
    Moon rotates in 27.321661 days (27 d 7 h 43 min 11.6 s) siderial
    LRO last 17 sep 2019 7:50 UTC + 27.32
    Ch2 last 6 sep 2019 cca 20:30 UTC + 27.32

    Terminator (interface of light and shadow) rotates synodic 29.530 days
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: chetan_chpd on 09/24/2019 11:37 am
    I think, the angle and velocity at which Vikram lander crashed is similar to what is "represented" by this movie scene. Even if the size of vikram is very small, The disturbance on the lunar surface alone would be "very visible" for CH-2/LRO given sufficient lighting conditions...lets hope we can spot that coming month

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKXE93kgCcw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKXE93kgCcw)
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: s^3 on 09/24/2019 04:15 pm
    What are the next day light pass times over the landing site for LRO and CY2 please?

    Midnight UTC between 4th and 5th Oct.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Svetoslav on 09/26/2019 08:21 pm
    LRO's photo of Vikram landing site has been released. NASA hasn't be able to locate the lander, but perhaps you can:

    https://www.lroc.asu.edu/posts/1128
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Astro_Neel on 09/27/2019 01:40 am
    Tried comparing the latest pic of the landing site from LRO with the one we saw on the MOX screens during the livestream to get an idea of how the lighting conditions differ. For what it's worth, the area is just illuminated enough that even if we were to spot a 2 x 2 pixel lander, we're going to have a hard time distinguishing it from boulders (unless ofcourse if ISRO provides us the coordinates). Here's some objects that I casually spotted on my phone, all within the radius of few km.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: abcd_indya on 09/27/2019 02:50 am
    It is strange indeed that even NASA doesn't know exact co-ordinates to look for Vikram. Things are not adding up for ISRO as far as I see. First, they (ISRO) have claimed to have imaged the lander in the tilted position via Orbiter's high resolution camera. Which implies they would know the exact spot. ISRO and NASA have shared a payload on the lander and am sure they have good enough relation for ISRO to have shared the exact co-ordinates of Vikram with NASA for NASA to have located it in LRO's image. NASA's image analysis claims that they are searching in an targeted landing area and doesn't call out the look-out at exact co-ordinates which it should have known provided ISRO would have shared with them if they were really interested to locate the lander...Something is really fishy and doesn't add up here!
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: chetan_chpd on 09/27/2019 06:57 am
    Tried comparing the latest pic of the landing site from LRO with the one we saw on MOX during the livestream to get an idea of how the lighting conditions differ. For what it's worth, the area is just illuminated enough that even if we were to spot a 2 x 2 pixel lander, we're going to have a hard time distinguishing it from boulders (unless ofcourse if ISRO provides us the coordinates). Here's some objects that I casually spotted on my phone, all within the radius of 1 km.

    after seeing second image from top, i recall that a (unnamed) scientist at ISRO claiming to see "at least two legs", "lander on its side"...
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Vikranth on 09/27/2019 07:34 am
    For me,This looks the closest to a lander.Looks as if it has tipped over and fallen onto it's side.
    But,All other boulders look the same and cast long shadows.
    Also,Is it safe to say that there are no new craters?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 09/27/2019 07:50 am
    Quote
    Note this mosaic is quite large (28314 pixels by 57851 lines) with approximately  900 million illuminated pixels (1.25 meter pixels)
    I don't think the lander is distinguishible from sand at 1.25 m/pixel. But LRO allows up to 0.5 m/pixel resolution ("somebody says" up to 0.30, but I can't find detailed optics data for the LROC).

    Quote
    We note that it was dusk when the landing area was imaged and thus large shadows covered much of the terrain, perhaps the Vikram lander is hiding in a shadow. The lighting will be favorable when LRO passes over the site in October and LROC will attempt to image the lander at that time.
    https://www.lroc.asu.edu/posts/1128
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phillip Clark on 09/27/2019 07:58 am
    Story on the BBC this morning.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-49848638
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 09/27/2019 09:03 am
    Moon rotates in 27.321661 days (27 d 7 h 43 min 11.6 s) siderial
    LRO last 17 sep 2019 7:50 UTC + 27.32
    Ch2 last 6 sep 2019 cca 20:30 UTC + 27.32

    Terminator (interface of light and shadow) rotates synodic 29.530 days
    The spacecraft flies twice over the site for 27.3 days, once in the dark, once in the light.
    The flight to the beginning of October is in the dark.
    LRO 14.-15. oct 2019
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 09/27/2019 09:24 am
    The spacecraft flies twice over the site for 27.3 days,
    I think it should be "every".
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 09/27/2019 09:45 am
    Does it exist any site showing the local moon time at a specific coordinate on the Moon?
    I found lunarclock.org, but I don't understand it, it just says "on the Moon it's time xx:xx"... but where on the moon?!?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 09/27/2019 11:08 am
    The spacecraft flies twice over the site for 27.3 days,
    I think it should be "every".

    The spacecraft flies over the site (over an ellipsoid without a surface region map) cca every 27.3/2= 13,6608305 days,
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phillip Clark on 09/27/2019 11:18 am
    The lunar month is 27.3 days on the average and every month varies from this value.   Therefore the claimed period for a spacecraft passing over the landing site cannot be accurately claimed to be "13,6608305 days".

    Using the Suin's selenocentric colongitude - which can easily be looked up online - is a good guide the the lighting conditions at the landing site.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 09/27/2019 11:30 am
    Does it exist any site showing the local moon time at a specific coordinate on the Moon?
    I found lunarclock.org, but I don't understand it, it just says "on the Moon it's time xx:xx"... but where on the moon?!?

    Moon time does not exist.
    http://lunarclock.org/what-is-lunar-standard-time.php
    is a recession
    Moon has phase.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_phase

    Lunar calendar
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_calendar
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 09/27/2019 11:42 am
    The lunar month is 27.3 days on the average and every month varies from this value.   Therefore the claimed period for a spacecraft passing over the landing site cannot be accurately claimed to be "13,6608305 days".

    Using the Suin's selenocentric colongitude - which can easily be looked up online - is a good guide the the lighting conditions at the landing site.

    Right,
    sidereal 27.321661554 + 0.000000217 × T
    synodic lunations may vary from about 29.18 to about 29.93 days
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 09/27/2019 11:50 am
    Does it exist any site showing the local moon time at a specific coordinate on the Moon?
    I found lunarclock.org, but I don't understand it, it just says "on the Moon it's time xx:xx"... but where on the moon?!?

    Moon time does not exist.
    It does, indeed we are talking about lunar days, nights and noons, on Chandrayaan and Beresheet and whatever sites.
    But calculating it is not trivial, as a day lasts 27.3 Earth-days.
    If a lunar time calculator does not exist yet, I can write it, but I need to understand some things before; for example:
    does Moon have a reference meridian to be used for "Moon UTC"?
    how is the Moon phase expressed in figures?
    how does libration would affect these calculations?

    That's why I was looking for a readymade solution.


    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Astro_Neel on 09/27/2019 12:24 pm
    So I spent some time making temporal comparison of the landing area from the latest images from LRO, zoomed to the max level. From what I can see, there seems to be no visible sign of ejecta or colour variation on the surface, atleast not from this altitude or under current illumination conditions. But in case one of you do notice anything in this gif, do share it. I'm also attaching the individual images that I used as frames for this gif if that helps.   
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 09/27/2019 12:42 pm
    Official name/id/number of the images would be useful for furure reference.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 09/27/2019 12:50 pm
    Lunar Astonomic literature,
    example:
    Jean Meeus: Astronomical algorithms, 1991, second edition 1998
    Chapter 53: Ephemeris for Physical Observations of the Moon
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/27/2019 03:46 pm
    Yes, but it's not yet stated in public.  We will know it soon.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: ChrisWilson68 on 09/27/2019 08:28 pm
    Does it exist any site showing the local moon time at a specific coordinate on the Moon?
    I found lunarclock.org, but I don't understand it, it just says "on the Moon it's time xx:xx"... but where on the moon?!?

    Moon time does not exist.
    It does, indeed we are talking about lunar days, nights and noons, on Chandrayaan and Beresheet and whatever sites.
    But calculating it is not trivial, as a day lasts 27.3 Earth-days.
    If a lunar time calculator does not exist yet, I can write it, but I need to understand some things before; for example:
    does Moon have a reference meridian to be used for "Moon UTC"?
    how is the Moon phase expressed in figures?
    how does libration would affect these calculations?

    That's why I was looking for a readymade solution.

    Everyone on this site knows that time passes on the Moon.  Everyone knows that there are physical phenomena analogous to days, nights, and noons on the Moon.

    So, when the post you replied to said "Moon time does not exist." it clearly meant that no standard reference time for the moon has been agreed to that would be analogous to UTC and/or the various time zones on Earth.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 09/28/2019 12:55 am
    Ok.
    Correct: Lunar time is not established.
    Can't say 280 hours 30 minutes Mare Serenitatis time.
    The fact that there is day and night I do not dispute, but it is not Lunar time.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: ccdengr on 09/28/2019 01:04 am
    But LRO allows up to 0.5 m/pixel resolution ("somebody says" up to 0.30, but I can't find detailed optics data for the LROC).
    https://ode.rsl.wustl.edu/moon/pagehelp/quickstartguide/index.html?lroc_cdrnac.htm

    LROC NAC has an IFOV of about 10 urad, so the resolution is the altitude times 10e-6.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/28/2019 06:19 am
    For me,This looks the closest to a lander.Looks as if it has tipped over and fallen onto it's side.
    But,All other boulders look the same and cast long shadows.
    Also,Is it safe to say that there are no new craters?

    Here's an enhanced and enlarged view of the "boulders".  The second object on the right does look kind of strange, but if there was a "successful" landing, I would imagine that the exhaust plume would have disturbed the surrounding soil, which doesn't appear to be the case. I think what we're seeing is a large boulder with two smaller boulders below it.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: s^3 on 09/28/2019 06:38 am
    ^^^

    The size of Lander does not match with the huge size of the objects.

    Both are conical in shape and do not appear to be natural rocks/feature on moon.

    Could be a debris of some earlier mission.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: seshagirib on 09/28/2019 07:32 am
    Are the "before" and "after" images compared manually, surely there must be some image processing s/w's for doing this automatically?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 09/28/2019 07:35 am
    Both are conical in shape and do not appear to be natural rocks/feature on moon.

    I think you are incorrectly interpreting the long shadows as meaning the objects are conical! A round object at low sun angle can produce a conical shaped shadow.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 09/28/2019 06:26 pm
    (https://discourse-data.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/optimized/3X/8/6/86a89da4a84b66dbd0e611664575f9d438ad54f2_2_577x750.png)
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 09/28/2019 06:29 pm
    Both are conical in shape and do not appear to be natural rocks/feature on moon.

    I think you are incorrectly interpreting the long shadows as meaning the objects are conical! A round object at low sun angle can produce a conical shaped shadow.
    not from orbit, this is an optical illusion only happening on surface (and it's the basis of moon hoax conspiracy theories).
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 09/28/2019 08:57 pm
    I think Dr Sivan had said that after some months they hope to bring the C2 Orbiter down to 50km altitude. Would that be enough to better image the crash site?

    Furthermore, how sustainable is a 50km orbit above the Moon? I'd read LRO is orbiting at 50km, but don't MassCons make such a low altitude particularly perilous?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 09/29/2019 08:40 am
    Comparison of landing area (red cross) lighting for LRO flights 17th Sep and 14th Oct
    the red blue line is the terminator, the red side is illuminated, the blue is in the dark.
    (cyan cross is crater Simpelius)
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Astro_Neel on 09/29/2019 05:07 pm
    Are the "before" and "after" images compared manually, surely there must be some image processing s/w's for doing this automatically?

    Yes, they were all compared manually by me. And here I have prepared 2 more gifs where interchangeably the older and the latest imagery can be seen transitioning on top of each other. I know an image processing software could have done the same in no time and with better accuracy, but at the time of making these I wasn't aware of any such existing tool. And seeing no major, visible signs of ejecta or impact crater(s) after I manually went through the images, I didn't took the extra step to go look for such a program myself.

    Nevertheless, let me know if anyone here does manage to see anything of significance in these gifs. If the resolution and the lighting conditions in LRO's next mosaic really turn out to be better than the current version of images, I might actually try to use a machine learning software to make finer comparisons. Till then, this should suffice I think.

    Edit- Check here

    https://imgur.com/a/SaMzA2k
    https://imgur.com/a/wTNkoHa

    for a smaller resolution of the gifs for faster loading time (at the cost of fewer details).
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phil Stooke on 09/29/2019 11:54 pm
    Those are very useful.  Thanks.

    This link shows what the Beresheet crash site looked like in an LRO image:

    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/lro-beresheet-impact-site-spotted (https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/lro-beresheet-impact-site-spotted)

    There is no obvious crater or remnant of the spacecraft.  Going out on a limb, I will suggest that the Chandrayaan 2 image interpreted as 'the lander intact but on its side' might have been a misinterpretation of small black marks in the middle of the impact site, as we see at Beresheet's site.  What really shows up in the LRO image is the bright ejecta around the impact site.  That is probably what we will see in the Vikram images from LRO, but albedo markings like that show up best when the sun is higher in the sky.  I don't see anything in the new image to suggest where the impact is, so we may need to wait perhaps 2 months until the lighting for LRO is similar to that in the pre-impact LRO image.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 09/30/2019 02:59 pm
    (https://discourse-data.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/optimized/3X/8/6/86a89da4a84b66dbd0e611664575f9d438ad54f2_2_577x750.png)
    Note: this is NOT the resolution of currently available image: this image si intended to show how Vikram compare to LM in size.
    The released image have 1.2m pixel resolution, so LM would not appear as in this image: being it 9.4 m from leg to leg, it would appear instead  8 pixel wide(5-6 for main body, plus legs), while Vikram would appear 1 or 2 pixel wide.
    In short: Vikram is not visible in the currently available image.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: hop on 10/01/2019 08:02 pm
    In short: Vikram is not visible in the currently available image.
    It would not be resolved, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be detectable, especially if using comparison to pre-landing images. Vikram is undoubtedly much more reflective than the typical lunar surface, and the low sun angle means the shadow would most likely be significantly larger. If there were a hard impact, or rockets firing near the surface, the disturbed area would also likely be several times larger than the lander itself, as seen in the Beresheet images.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phil Stooke on 10/02/2019 01:36 am
    The Beresheet impact is a good comparison.  It's almost entirely an albedo feature, which will be barely visible in the low sun image we have now from LRO.  I suspect that dark spots like those seen in the middle of the Beresheet impact marking were misinterpreted by those who saw the original Chandrayaan 2 high resolution image.  They appeared to be shadows of an intact structure, but were not.  There is very little chance of seeing an intact object casting a shadow.  Higher sun images will show albedo better.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/03/2019 09:53 am
    LRO yesterday  2 oct 2019 around 22:55 UTC flew over Simpelius and in the dark.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: s^3 on 10/03/2019 04:10 pm
    Next cycle of agony starts in a day.

    Wait for the images of  shattered Lander begins.

    Next Lunar day begins midnight bet 4th and 5th Oct.

    CH2 Orbiter will cover the landing site between 9th and 10th Oct with good Sunlight.

    LRO is not a good candidate to image polar areas. It will cover the Landing Site between 16th and 17th Oct ..  but the lighting conditions are not very helpful. It will give a similar situation seen in last cycle : Long shadows and low Illumination apart from the fact that it has a inferior spatial resolution compared to CH2 Orbiter. ( Of course the LRO has a different goal than imaging small items ).

    Only advantage of LRO images is that we are SURE to see those in public domain within hours of its pass over the area.

    No such possibility with CH2 Orbiter images ..  SURE for that :( .
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Svetoslav on 10/03/2019 05:51 pm
    Hm... could this be Vikram lander?

    https://twitter.com/Ramanean/status/1179792967692734465
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phil Stooke on 10/03/2019 06:39 pm
    I think that is a small crater's wall, illuminated in one image, in shadow in the other with opposite lighting.  I think the small crater is tilted because it is on a slope, so the opposite sides are not symmetrical.  I base that on a lifetime spent looking at images of the Moon.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/03/2019 08:52 pm
    https://twitter.com/Ramanean/status/1179811360152014848

    It would mean Vikram landed on the whole, no crater.
    The engines did not disturb the surface.

    Wait for the new pictures from LRO
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Hungry4info3 on 10/03/2019 11:58 pm
    There is far too little information from those images to evaluate whether or not that is Vikram.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 10/04/2019 01:09 am
    Vikram has metal in it - lunar regolith not so much.

    Is there any way to look for metal?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: s^3 on 10/04/2019 01:24 am
    ^
    If LRO has MSS onboard then metal can be distinguished.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: smoliarm on 10/04/2019 01:28 am
    Vikram has metal in it - lunar regolith not so much.

    Is there any way to look for metal?
    - Synthetic Aperture Radar.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: tolis on 10/04/2019 08:01 am
    Those are very useful.  Thanks.

    This link shows what the Beresheet crash site looked like in an LRO image:

    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/lro-beresheet-impact-site-spotted (https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/lro-beresheet-impact-site-spotted)

    There is no obvious crater or remnant of the spacecraft.  Going out on a limb, I will suggest that the Chandrayaan 2 image interpreted as 'the lander intact but on its side' might have been a misinterpretation of small black marks in the middle of the impact site, as we see at Beresheet's site.  What really shows up in the LRO image is the bright ejecta around the impact site.  That is probably what we will see in the Vikram images from LRO, but albedo markings like that show up best when the sun is higher in the sky.  I don't see anything in the new image to suggest where the impact is, so we may need to wait perhaps 2 months until the lighting for LRO is similar to that in the pre-impact LRO image.

    Related to this, I wish that ISRO would just release those C2 orbiter images so that anyone can make their own determination on whether the lander is there and the condition it might be in. It is not clear what they hope to gain by not disclosing them at this point.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: PM3 on 10/04/2019 04:26 pm
    First released images by Chandrayaan-2 orbiter

    https://www.isro.gov.in/update/04-oct-2019/chandrayaan2-images-orbiter-high-resolution-camera
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 10/04/2019 06:56 pm
    Gee, Iv'e never seen such detailed images of the lunar surface from above before. Why are there so many boulders on the surface? Where do they come from?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phil Stooke on 10/05/2019 02:24 am
    Look at the overview image - this is on the outer rim of a large-ish impact crater.  Actually this is not at all unusual - see LRO images of Cone crater at Apollo 14's site, or Censorinus crater or thousands of other craters.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 10/05/2019 06:54 am
    I'm confused, didn't the say they had found it in the images?!?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 10/05/2019 01:07 pm
    I am working at an algorithm to calculate time-to-sunrise for any given point on the Moon.
    For a point at 0°N, 0°S on the Moon, are these results correct for 2019/10/05 13:00 UTC?

    Earth-days to sunrise on the moon:
    DaysDecimal: 0.735

    Earth-days expressed as day-hours-minutes:
    Days: 0
    Hours: 17
    Minutes: 38

    Angular distance:
    Degrees: 8.961

    And, for Chandrayaan 2 at same date, resulting values for planned landing site 70.90267°S 22.78110°E are:

    DaysDecimal: -1.22
    Days: -1
    Hours: 5
    Minutes: 16
    Degrees: -14.89

    (minus --> sunrise passed since 1d 5h 16m)



    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Astro_Neel on 10/05/2019 04:20 pm
    Vikram has metal in it - lunar regolith not so much.

    Is there any way to look for metal?

    Not sure if looking for metal would be a good way to detect Vikram here since all of its structure is well covered under MLI, of which the outermost layers are mostly made of polyamides and polyesters.

    Looking for a shiny reflection would be better option imo assuming if it's not covered significantly under the highly charged regolith as well.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/05/2019 05:29 pm
    the terminator passes through the site 70.90267°S 22.78110°E
    4 Oct 2019 18:00 UTC

    http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Earth
    (http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Earth?di=D78CE03195B97BB41FE994758208E85F648194B3C9F7EFDD24F301A43618665F027BBB90EFF1A032523C4FA1E8146D29D2A46F12A3537A8F094FFC34B0106767E132A24F6BBD75FAD4F53AA13D2E393B480BADF41AF22B9D85340068D9D1DED2E9FC8546BC49BB2A6A)
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 10/05/2019 08:35 pm
    Earth??
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phil Stooke on 10/05/2019 10:35 pm
    "I'm confused, didn't the say they had found it in the images?!?"

    Yes, but not in this newly-released image.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/06/2019 12:08 am
    the terminator passes through the site 70.90267°S 22.78110°E
    4 Oct 2019 18:00 UTC

    http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Earth
     [???]http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Earth?di=[/img]
    yes
    https://www.fourmilab.ch/earthview/vplanet.html
    https://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Earth/action?opt=-m&img=LRO_100m.evif
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 10/06/2019 08:21 am
    I found a more comfortable method to use fourmilab page, there is a custom page, which created this link:
    https://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Earth?img=LRO_100m.evif&imgsize=320&gamma=1.32&opt=-l&lat=0&ns=North&lon=12.4833%B0&ew=East&alt=35785&bird=From+elements+below&tle=LAGEOS+1%0D%0A&date=1&utc=2019-10-04+18%3A00&jd=2476948.34564

    https://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Earth?
    img=LRO_100m.evif
    &imgsize=320
    &gamma=1.32
    &opt=-l
    &lat=0
    &ns=North
    &lon=12.4833%B0
    &ew=East
    &alt=35785
    &bird=From+elements+below
    &tle=LAGEOS+1%0D%0A
    &date=1
    &utc=2019-10-04+18%3A00
    &jd=2476948.34564


    I cleaned up a little and reordered the input parameters (for missing parameters, a default value is used):
    https://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Earth?img=LRO_100m.evif&opt=-l&alt=35785&date=1&lat=85&ns=South&lon=12.4833%B0&ew=East&utc=2019-10-05+10:00

    https://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Earth?
    img=LRO_100m.evif
    &opt=-l
    &alt=35785
    &date=1
    &lat=70.9
    &ns=South
    &lon=12.4833%B0
    &ew=East
    &utc=2019-10-05+10:00


    This image is centered on  70.90267°S 22.78110°E, and I placed the date as last parameter so we can edit it more easily until terminator is exactly vertical... until I finish the page which automatically calculates how long it will take to the next sunrise or sunset.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 10/07/2019 10:02 am
    Test page for calculating local time on Moon:
    http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/moon/provalib.html

    Are results right?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 10/07/2019 03:47 pm
    Test page for calculating local time on Moon:
    http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/moon/provalib.html

    Are results right?
    No, there were some bugs...
    Now it should work (v. 0.3 alpha).

    I read that Virtual Moon Atlas app should allow figuring out sunset/sunrise times on the Moon but I was not able to find then in the program.


    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: TheVarun on 10/07/2019 04:07 pm
    A good write up on the Vikram lander mishap from "Frontline" magazine

    https://frontline.thehindu.com/science-and-technology/article29477285.ece?homepage=true

    Several factors going wrong at the very last minutes of the Chandrayaan-2 mission led to the lander Vikram crash-landing on the moon as the nation watched with bated breath.
    IT is a tragedy that India is unable to come to terms with. Everything had worked with clockwork precision as India’s Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft with a lander and a rover aboard travelled 3.84 lakh kilometres on its 48-day journey towards the moon. The series of manoeuvres that the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) executed as the spacecraft headed towards the moon had gone off perfectly. It looked as if n
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 10/07/2019 06:41 pm
    I think I have fixed all errors now:
    http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/moon/moontime.html

    (note: URL changed)


    I also figured out how to find sunrise/sunset selenographic times for specific locations in Virtual Moon Atlas (https://ap-i.net/avl/it/download) (but it is a 100MB download): you have to run ATLUN.EXE , search the desidered landing point in the database, and switch to EPHEMERIS tag: the COLONGITUDE value is the angular position of sunrise terminator:
    (https://i.imgur.com/qhjKYd3.png)

    You can manually edit the time until the sunrise/sunset terminators move to desired location.

    Lines to add to Historical_uEN.csv file in database folder:

    Beresheet;Inert equipment / Voluntary impact;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;19,3496;19,3° East;32,5956;32,5° South;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Yutu 2;Inert equipment / Voluntary impact;03/01/2019;Chang'e4 lander;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;177,5991;177,6° East;45,4446;45,4° South;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Vikram lander;Inert equipment / Voluntary impact;07/09/2019;Vikram lander crash site;(ISRO/INDIA);Non existent in this period;Non existent in this period;Non existent in this period;No character;;;;;;;;;;22,7811;23,5° East;-70,90267;70,9° South;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: s^3 on 10/08/2019 05:18 am
    I doubt if it will serve any purpose now.  Still...

    CH2 Orbiter will cover the landing site between 9th and 10th Oct with good Sunlight.

    LRO will cover the Landing Site between 16th and 17th Oct
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 10/08/2019 06:12 am
    Basic summary of why the landing failed:

    "He summed up the issue thus: several things added up. The intended orientation of the lander went wrong because of an anomaly in the performance of an engine. The software was not able to take care of it. The fuel in the tank was getting depleted because Vikram had already completed two manoeuvres. The fuel in the tank was sloshing around, which created another problem. Since the software was not robust enough, the problems got compounded."
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/08/2019 09:13 am
    I doubt if it will serve any purpose now.  Still...

    CH2 Orbiter will cover the landing site between 9th and 10th Oct with good Sunlight.

    LRO will cover the Landing Site between 16th and 17th Oct
    surely?
    to me it goes like this:
    LRO 14th Oct
    CH2 orbiter 17th Oct (last 3th Oct in dark)

    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: s^3 on 10/08/2019 10:39 am
    ^^^
    Including images with which timing was stated.

    RED orbit is CH2 Orbiter
    WHITE is LRO
    Blue line : Direction of Sun
    Landing Site : Planned Landing site ..  but the Lander did not reach there ..  hence coverage is possible on 2nd day.

    A. 3rd Oct Night situation: LRO covering the Spot in night.

    B. Next CH2 Orbiter Daytime coverage : 9th Oct

    C. Next LRO Daytime Coverage :16th Oct
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/08/2019 01:33 pm
    OK.
    LRO 14th or 16th?
    We'll wait.
    Maybe I'm wrong.

    CH2 orbiter flight over the site is not a way to verify.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 10/08/2019 05:20 pm


    A. 3rd Oct Night situation: LRO covering the Spot in night.

    B. Next CH2 Orbiter Daytime coverage : 9th Oct

    C. Next LRO Daytime Coverage :16th Oct
    Where/how can I get numerical data corresponding to these images?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: s^3 on 10/08/2019 05:30 pm
    ^^^

    Using the analysis software STK ( Systems Tool Kit ).

    Free with most of the features included.

    Takes a bit to learn , but after that it is just superb.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 10/08/2019 05:35 pm
    ^^^

    Using the analysis software STK ( Systems Tool Kit ).

    No web interface? I an looking at Horizons  (https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi?s_target=1#top)and Spice  (https://wgc.jpl.nasa.gov:8443/webgeocalc/)but with no luck up to now.

    If I could define an URL to retrieve LRO Lat/Lon, I could easily add it to my page which calculates sunrise/sunset time on Moon sites.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: s^3 on 10/09/2019 01:23 am
    ^^^
    Not a direct tool but a round about to generate Lat long  table.

    Use horizons to generate x,y,z ( with Moon as central body ), Moon (body center) [500@301]

    Apply simple conversion in excel to generate Lat Long.  (  latitude = asin (z/R) and longitude = atan2 (y,x).  )

    Hope this is what you expect.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 10/09/2019 07:26 am

    Use horizons to generate x,y,z
    I tried some times ago, but it does not work because it does not take into account Moon revolution.
    I also tried using Horizons to track the movement of a static object on Moon surface around Moon CoG, but it does not work: if it's on the Moon, it's considered static and it has no ephemeris available.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/09/2019 02:52 pm
    ...
    A. 3rd Oct Night situation: LRO covering the Spot in night.
    B. Next CH2 Orbiter Daytime coverage : 9th Oct
    C. Next LRO Daytime Coverage :16th Oct
    S^3 laid out the cards on the table.
    So will I submit my.

    If we agree that the LRO flies over 17th Sep 7:50 UTC
    https://www.lroc.asu.edu/posts/1128

    17th Sep 2019 07:50 plus 27,321661 days = 14th Oct 2019 15:33
    The Libration in longitude of the Moon was 17th 7:50 Sep 6.4 ° and 14th Oct 15:30 6.2 °
    In latitude is irrelevant.
    my opinion
    LRO overflies site 14th Oct 2019 cca 20:00 UTC
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 10/09/2019 02:55 pm
    OK.
    LRO 14th or 16th?
    We'll wait.
    Maybe I'm wrong.

    CH2 orbiter flight over the site is not a way to verify.
    I found a method to retrieve from NASA Horizons a file listing distance of LRO from any point on Moon surface; this  (https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons_batch.cgi?batch=1&MAKE_EPHEM=%27YES%27&TABLE_TYPE=%27VECTORS%27&OUT_UNITS=%27KM-S%27&REF_SYSTEM=%27J2000%27&VEC_LABELS=%27YES%27&CSV_FORMAT=%27YES%27&OBJ_DATA=%27YES%27&VEC_TABLE=%273%27&STEP_SIZE=%271h%27&START_TIME=%272019-10-12%2010:00%27&STOP_TIME=%272019-10-17%2023:00%27&COMMAND=%27-85%27&CENTER=%27coord@301%27&COORD_TYPE=%27GEODETIC%27&SITE_COORD=%2722.78110,-70.90267,0%27)is the URL for Vikram landing site.

    You can see 136 and 119 km distance from Vikram landing site on oct-14 - 02:00 and oct-15 - 19:00, which in India translate into  oct-14 - 07:00 and oct-16 - 00:00

    (note: these are distances from landing site, not altitudes over surface).

    (https://discourse-data.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/optimized/3X/7/1/715b6fa938cca4d78a9860e8a0a1fe744fe1487f_2_323x500.png)

    Sunrise/sunset dates at site:
    Sunrise: 5d 4h 47m ago (Fri Oct 04 2019 11:50:49GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time))
    Sunset: 9d 13h 34m from now (Sat Oct 19 2019 06:12:25 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time))
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/09/2019 03:11 pm
    ...
    You can see 136 and 119 km distance from Vikram landing site on oct-14 - 02:00 and oct-15 - 19:00, which in India translate into  oct-14 - 07:00 and oct-16 - 00:00

    (note: these are distances from landing site, not altitudes over surface).
    yes
    oct-14 - 02:00
    oct-15 - 19:00
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/09/2019 04:45 pm
    to the LRO
    for one LRO orbit, the Moon rotates 1 °.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/10/2019 02:30 am
    according to the instructions from spacexplorer I had to draw a chart from horizons
    LRO (spacecraft) [-85]
    Topocentric @301 [Moon] ( 22°46'52.0''E, 70°54'10.3''S, 0.1 km )
    minimum
    2019-Oct-16 13:20:00
    115.8 km


    Now I can't wait to fly.
    14th or 16th?

    wrong chart:
    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/20324.0/1587192.jpg

    Right chart:
    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/20324.0/1587624.jpg
    minimum
    A.D. 2019-Oct-15 01:26:00.0000
    65,8 km

    Thanks spacexplorer
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/10/2019 03:10 am
    the same
    Start=2019-09-15 00:00, Stop=2019-09-18 23:59, Step=1 m
    min
     A.D. 2019-Sep-17 19:31:00
    64,3 km
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 10/10/2019 05:40 pm
    14th or 16th?
    Beware of sign: it's southern emisphere, hence Lat=-70.
    For lat=+70, I actually see a minimum at 13:20 on oct/16, but... there's nothing up there! ;-)

    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/10/2019 09:57 pm
    and someone here mentions the northern coordinates?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 10/11/2019 08:53 am
    and someone here mentions the northern coordinates?
    Your calculations and chart reveal you used northern coordinates.


    Chart for +70°:
    (https://i.imgur.com/U44DJVI.png)

    Chart for -70°:
    (https://i.imgur.com/rGrkZVh.png)

    Zoom:

    +70°
    (https://i.imgur.com/DJExNs1.png)


    -70°:
    (https://i.imgur.com/jSTkbg2.png)

    You don't need to download data every time and copy them into excel, this page draw charts automatically:
    http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/3d/space-explorer-tracker.html??orbiter=-85&center=coord@301&lat=-70.90267&lon=22.78110&alt=0&bodyname=moon
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/11/2019 10:06 am

    Your calculations and chart reveal you used northern coordinates.
    Thanks
    my center "Topocentric @301 [Moon] ( 22°46'52.0''E, 70°54'10.3''S, 0.1 km )"
     70°54'10.3''S
    S= South
    70°S=-70°
    Only when entering I really gave +70, ie north.
    I apologise.
    Graph
    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg2003316#msg2003316
     with Start = 2019-09-15 00:00, Stop = 2019-09-18 23:59, Step = 1m is already correct.


    correction:
    LRO (spacecraft) [-85]
    Topocentric @301 [Moon] ( 22°46'52.0''E, 70°54'10.3''S, 0.1 km )
    minimum
    A.D. 2019-Oct-15 01:26:00.0000
    65,8 km


    I'm glad it got clear.
    But I would wait for the 14th, because even on the LRO flight on 17 September horizons gives time 19:33 and here was published 07:50.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/11/2019 10:36 am
    ...
    I'm glad it got clear.
    But I would wait for the 14th, because even on the LRO flight on 17 September horizons gives time 19:33 and here was published 07:50.

    If I look in detail at the chart from September 17th: the 1 minute interval is not enough and probably the nearest flight was 15:36 or 19:31 UTC
    The exact time of the flight will be learned when the LRO image is added to the database LROC.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/11/2019 06:16 pm
    09/17/2019 09:19 ncb1397
    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1993212#msg1993212
    only now I noticed:
    -74.1° 24.4° ??? 7:50 utc
    then
    09/17/2019 07:06 pm
    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1993384#msg1993384
    ~17:37 UTC (LRO 17 Sep 2019 flyby over planed landing site)


    17.09.19 17:37 plus 27,321661 days = 15.10.19 01:20
    And this is the same solution as the horizons.com chart provide:
    A.D. 2019-Oct-15 01:26:00 UTC
    65,8 km



    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/13/2019 11:26 pm
    If you are interested about flyby LRO over the planned landing site of Vikram, I recommend watching today's flight at 18:22 and 20:19 UTC (right and left)
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: s^3 on 10/14/2019 01:35 am
    ^^^
    Wreckage is likely to be in 2nd or 3rd or 4th orbit after the nearest approach.

    Craft approached the Landing site fron NE direction and crashed before reaching the point so the debris has to be NE of Landing site.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 10/15/2019 05:56 am
    14 oct 2019 20:22:33 UTC - The LRO spacecraft flew over the planned landing site of Vikram.
    I would like to thank everyone who has shown an interest in setting the flyby date.
    I do not know how many predicted 14th September and how many 16th.

    I hope s^3 finds a mistake, I suppose in the inserted orbital elements and the epoch of STK.

    Another flyby over the site in the light approximately:
    14 oct 2019 20:22 plus 27d 7h 43min =  11 nov 2019 04:05

    The difference between horizons.com and Quickmap.lroc.asu.edu is about given by older  data:
     Trajectory name                 Start (TDB)         Stop (TDB)
      ---------------------------- -----------------  -----------------
      Reconstructed trajectory     2009-Jun-18 22:16  2019-Mar-15 00:01
      Concatenated predict updates 2019-Mar-15 00:01  2019-Aug-07 00:01
      558day_20190807_01.V0.1      2019-Aug-07 00:01  2021-Feb-15 00:01


    I hope to see Vikram on Moon surface within a few days
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: seshagirib on 10/23/2019 07:33 am
    DF-SAR initial images  ISRO site:

    https://www.isro.gov.in/update/22-oct-2019/initial-imaging-and-observations-chandrayaan-2-dual-frequency-synthetic-aperture
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Svetoslav on 10/23/2019 01:38 pm
    NASA's LRO still can't find Vikram's lander:

    https://www.indiatoday.in/science/story/chandrayaan-2-vikram-lander-not-found-new-nasa-photos-moon-landing-site-1612124-2019-10-23
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: TheVarun on 11/01/2019 02:15 am
     Still waiting for that technically detailed article describing all the systems, components and software on board Vikram that worked very well before the mishap.  Particularly those that were developed for the first time. Provided the language is not overly technical or esoteric, even a non-technical person like me :) will eagerly read and appreciate it.

    There would have been many things on Vikram that worked really well, and must have made the engineers quite happy and content. So far, nothing has been gone into in any detail. T.S Subramanian's article in Frontline a few weeks ago was the closest, but still not satisfactory from a technical standpoint. Same with Raj Chengappa's article in India Today.  Stirring, lucid write-up, but short on detail.

    Or should we wait for ISRO's own report.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: chetan_chpd on 11/01/2019 07:08 am
    i was looking at this video...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGzdgpeZ67I&t=140s

    is it possible that, the "fatal Pirouette" part of the video could be the reason behind 'vikram lander' crash?
    (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-l4eYGJ498F0/XbvnZjmM_HI/AAAAAAAADrg/E3JXIWUXYJ8GNKYhphHxItyucomKqRkcgCLcBGAsYHQ/s320/unnamed.gif)


    (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JTMolwkm_N4/XbvgI839vSI/AAAAAAAADq0/1yI2JVKBGaYYH8mu-KbGDgnVmrznBRluACLcBGAsYHQ/s320/snap566.jpg)

    (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ksbs9MPZn3I/XbvgJYoDO2I/AAAAAAAADq4/YDYOuqXNTR4smfSHq9ij80dzrsFw_lL6wCLcBGAsYHQ/s320/snap565.jpg)

    (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OY6eN2UvCTs/XbvgKWbyQaI/AAAAAAAADq8/PvWjEecNK0Y6T_lToyWRApCn8SP0l3PiACLcBGAsYHQ/s320/snap564.jpg)

    (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RSVXtKmwgbQ/Xbvgbjt_U9I/AAAAAAAADrE/R3dBCrTMR_8To5sts6b_IfFcT26c-Jl9wCLcBGAsYHQ/s320/ani1567881427.jpg)

    in HD images of Lander from ISRO website, there is no LEM RCS system like thrusters [4 sets of (4 = 2 horizontal+ 2 vertical)]...
    thus the absence of counter-torque?

    (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ewm8jgwKyKM/XbvmlQ9_yLI/AAAAAAAADrU/851XwASXArooTWvQJyRe5Dn0wwTaUb2_wCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/snap567.jpg)
    (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-a1QkHAF7Szo/XbvmmT9ICkI/AAAAAAAADrY/P6n_4kULaW4y6aYyMBkod1NEPKJlrtfOgCLcBGAsYHQ/s320/snap568.jpg)

     
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 11/10/2019 05:02 am
    The LRO spacecraft after 10 orbits will be above the planned landing site of Vikram.
    10.11.19 05:47 plus 10*113 117 min = 11.11.19 00:37 01:17 UTC

    Landing area lighting for LRO flights 11th Nov (cyan cross is crater Simpelius),
    the red blue line is the terminator, the red side is illuminated, the blue is in the dark.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 11/10/2019 07:00 pm
    Local Sun azimuth/elevation according to NASA Horizons (https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons_batch.cgi?batch=1?&COMMAND=%27Sun%27&CENTER=%27coord@301%27&OBJ_DATA=%27yes%27&MAKE_EPHEM=%27yes%27&TABLE_TYPE=%27OBSERVER%27&REF_PLANE=%27ECLIPTIC%27&COORD_TYPE=%27GEODETIC%27&SITE_COORD=%2722.78110,-70.90267,0%27&START_TIME=%272019/11/10%2005:47%27&STOP_TIME=%272019/11/11%2010:53%27&STEP_SIZE=%271m%27&TLIST=%27%27&QUANTITIES=%274%27&FIXED_QUANTITIES=%27Custom%27&REF_SYSTEM=%27J2000%27&OUT_UNITS=%27KM-S%27&VECT_TABLE=%273%27&VECT_CORR=%27NONE%27&CAL_FORMAT=%27CAL%27&ANG_FORMAT=%27HMS%27&APPARENT=%27AIRLESS%27&TIME_TYPE=%27UTC%27&TIME_DIGITS=%27MINUTES%27&TIME_ZONE=%27%27&RANGE_UNITS=%27AU%27&SUPPRESS_RANGE_RATE=%27no%27&ELEV_CUT=%27%27&SKIP_DAYLT=%27no%27&SOLAR_ELONG=%27%27&AIRMASS=%27%27&EXTRA_PREC=%27yes%27&CSV_FORMAT=%27yes%27&VEC_LABELS=%27yes%27&ELM_LABELS=%27yes%27&TP_TYPE=%27ABSOLUTE%27&R_T_S_ONLY=%27NO%27&CA_TABLE_TYPE=%27STANDARD%27&TCA3SG_LIMIT=%27%27&EMAIL_ADDR=%27%27&CALIM_SB=%27%27):


    Date__(UT)__HR:MN, , ,Azi_(a-app), Elev_(a-app),
    *************************************************
     2019-Nov-10 05:47,*,x,  1.4569, 17.8026
     2019-Nov-11 01:17,*,x, 351.1020, 17.6075
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 11/11/2019 12:40 am
    The LRO spacecraft above the planned landing site of Vikram:
    11.11.2019 01:21:04 UTC
    LRO orbit period 01:57:21
    Next LRO flyby 08 Dec 2019 09:04

    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phil Stooke on 11/11/2019 03:26 am
    I hope the LRO imaging will extend further out than before, in case the impact was outside the previously imaged area, which was apparently centered on the target point.  My feeling is that the very early comments about the high resolution camera showing the lander intact but on its side and 500 m from the target point were based on a hasty misinterpretation of the first images, and that's why the images have not been released.  Proof of a nearly successful landing would have been such a big deal that ISRO would have been eager to put it out there after the initial disappointment. 
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: John Moore on 11/11/2019 11:42 pm
    Actual, aerial lighting conditions of the 11/11/2019 date.

    (https://www.cloudynights.com/uploads/gallery/album_4320/gallery_82047_4320_108733.gif)
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 11/12/2019 05:45 am
    The Virtual Moon Atlas has different lighting:
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: John Moore on 11/12/2019 07:41 am
    Hi, Lamid.

    That is a standard, textured global map of the Moon, and while helpful in its own right, it does not represent the sunlight/shadow conditions for the date mentioned above.

    John Moore
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 11/12/2019 09:29 am
    Thanks, is that so.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 11/12/2019 03:41 pm
    Given Horizons data (sun azimuth = 1.4569°/351.1020°, which means North), image posted by John Moore looks to be the right one (where does it come from?)
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: John Moore on 11/13/2019 09:14 pm
    It was home-baked by simply using a high-rez dem map.

    John Moore
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-3 Mission
    Post by: sanjaykumar on 11/14/2019 02:36 am
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-3-second-bid-to-land-on-moon-by-november-2020/articleshow/72047390.cms (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-3-second-bid-to-land-on-moon-by-november-2020/articleshow/72047390)

    New topic ?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/14/2019 03:07 am
    Here's the correct link

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-3-second-bid-to-land-on-moon-by-november-2020/articleshow/72047390.cms

    "BENGALURU: The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), which failed to land a probe on the Moon in its first attempt in September 2019 (Chandrayaan-2), has begun work on Chandrayaan-3 with a deadline of November 2020, sources said."
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: chota on 11/18/2019 04:16 am
    > A last-minute software glitch led to the failure of the Chandrayaan 2 mission
    > Vikram Lander crash-landed on the moon's surface after its guidance software went kaput
    > Vikram Lander lost control 500m short of the lunar surface and crashed
    > The lander experienced trouble during the “fine braking”
    > The final stage in which the lander operated only one of its thrusters and slowed down to just 146m per second
    > The lander veered off its trajectory and crashed 750m away from the intended landing spot
    > The ISRO has put in place a mission to rectify the mistakes and relaunch Chandrayaan 2 next November

    Source: https://www.theweek.in/news/sci-tech/2019/11/16/how-did-chandrayaan-2-fail-isro-answer.html


    - India may attempt another soft landing on the moon by next year-end, probably in November
    - There is a good launch window in November. Rover, lander and landing operations will get more focus this time and whatever deficiencies in the Chandrayaan-2 mission will be corrected
    - A national-level committee consisting of academics and ISRO experts, headed by V. Narayanan, director of the space agency's Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre, has analysed the cause of communication loss with the lande
    - This committee has pinpointed as to what went wrong. They have prepared a voluminous report and are believed to have submitted it to the Space Commission
    - It's expected to be put in the public domain after the approval of the PMO

    Source: https://www.theweek.in/news/sci-tech/2019/11/14/chandrayaan-3-isro-plans-soft-landing-on-moon-in-november-2020.html
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 11/18/2019 06:55 am
    What exactly is a "last-minute software glitch"? Was the software updated/modified at the last minute?

    They ought to be more specific on what went wrong. To a layman like me, it looked like the lander's control system just couldn't maintain the lander's balance/orientation under actual real-world conditions during descent.

    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: TheVarun on 11/18/2019 12:19 pm
    ^

    Also, it is a little confusing about only one 'thruster' operating in the final phase.  Are they referring to one of the 5 800N LAM's, or one of the 8 smaller thrusters.   Only one of those 8 functioning, and none of the LAM's working, is hard to accept.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 11/18/2019 02:11 pm
    And just to repeat a previous question - why do they need an abrupt transition from coarse/rough braking deceleration to fine braking deceleration? Is that how everybody else does it?

    Why can't they just refine it gradually all along the way? I'm only saying that because it seemed like the trajectory was decent up until the point where they transitioned from coarse/rough braking to fine braking.

    If nature doesn't work that way, then why should the software work that way?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phil Stooke on 11/18/2019 03:49 pm
    NASA's Surveyor moon landers of the 1960s worked in a similar way.  A main braking rocket brought the lander down to a few km above the surface, and then three small 'Vernier' thrusters took over (the main rocket and fuel tank were ejected and fell near the landing site) and brought it down to the surface.  On Surveyor 4 the system failed at the transition.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: chota on 11/18/2019 04:28 pm
    And just to repeat a previous question - why do they need an abrupt transition from coarse/rough braking deceleration to fine braking deceleration? Is that how everybody else does it?

    Why can't they just refine it gradually all along the way? I'm only saying that because it seemed like the trajectory was decent up until the point where they transitioned from coarse/rough braking to fine braking.

    If nature doesn't work that way, then why should the software work that way?

    There is a gradual transition

    Rough braking phase - When Vikram came down in a controlled manner from an altitude of 30 km to 7.4 km. Vikram travels horizontally in this phase
    Absolute navigation phase - when the lander descended from a height of 7.4 km to 5 km. Vikram is flipped 90 degrees from horizontal to vertical position
    fine braking phase - when Vikram is supposed to climbed down from a height of 5 km to 400 metres above the moon’s surface. It also chooses a landing spot and hovers briefly
    Terminal vertical descent phase - when Vikram is supposed to touch down on Moon surface from 400 metres


    Following is the speculation doing rounds on the reasons for crash landing

    > Some where between absolute navigation and fine braking, instead of turning 90 from horizontal to vertical, it flipped upside down to 180 degrees (Why: Because one of the 4 throttleable engines produced a higher thrust than required
    > When Vikram flipped upside down to 180 degrees, its propulsion should not fire because of wrong orientation. A software error could not stop the engine from firing
    > The problem might have been compounded by sloshing around of fuel in the tank where a corrective thrust could not be fired or the generated thrust was not as per requirements

    Source: https://frontline.thehindu.com/science-and-technology/article29477285.ece
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 11/19/2019 01:44 am
    I wonder whether there will be any effort to try and improve those 800kN engines, so that they work better or more reliably.

    It seems like Chandrayaan-2 was the very first mission these engines were used on.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: seshagirib on 11/21/2019 10:24 am
    I wonder whether there will be any effort to try and improve those 800kN engines, so that they work better or more reliably.

    It seems like Chandrayaan-2 was the very first mission these engines were used on.

    As per the recent news flow^^^ the FAC seems to have zeroed in on the software as the prime culprit, the earlier reports about a  thruster over performing is not to be  seen recently.....
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: AJA on 11/22/2019 06:25 am
    And just to repeat a previous question - why do they need an abrupt transition from coarse/rough braking deceleration to fine braking deceleration? Is that how everybody else does it?

    Why can't they just refine it gradually all along the way? I'm only saying that because it seemed like the trajectory was decent up until the point where they transitioned from coarse/rough braking to fine braking.

    If nature doesn't work that way, then why should the software work that way?

    In response to the generic question at the end of your post: they'd need infinite resolution throttling on the engines, and RCS engines are not necessarily throttleable. Making them throttleable would imply a reliability hit.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: AJA on 11/22/2019 06:26 am
    Maybe something here? https://www.reddit.com/r/ISRO/comments/dxnjmj/is_this_vikram_landers_final_resting_area/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/ISRO/comments/dxnjmj/is_this_vikram_landers_final_resting_area/)
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: AJA on 11/22/2019 06:29 am
    ...T.S Subramanian's article in Frontline a few weeks ago was the closest,

    https://frontline.thehindu.com/science-and-technology/article29477285.ece

    with Raj Chengappa's article in India Today.

    Which one? I found several:

    https://www.indiatoday.in/science/story/decoding-the-jolt-to-chandrayaan-2-what-went-wrong-with-vikram-1596782-2019-09-08 [You're probably talking about this one?]

    https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/up-front/story/20190805-chandrayaan-2-thrill-and-terror-1573232-2019-07-26

    https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/cover-story/story/20190923-interview-in-rocket-science-there-are-always-unknown-unknowns-1598448-2019-09-13
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 11/22/2019 07:11 am
    In response to the generic question at the end of your post: they'd need infinite resolution throttling on the engines, and RCS engines are not necessarily throttleable. Making them throttleable would imply a reliability hit.

    Alright, so why not more transitions/gradations instead of just 1 or 2?  Rough --> Coarse --> Fine --> Hover

    Or maybe they need 2 different types of engines - a higher thrust engine for rough braking, and a finer thruster for finer braking

    Hopefully they'll test to the corners for the next attempt.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/22/2019 07:58 am
    I've enhanced the images. For the first comparison, they look to be two different areas.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/22/2019 08:08 am
    Before and after pictures, enhanced. The author seems to be showing two different locations. This is showing the "debris" location.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: edzieba on 11/22/2019 11:50 am
    Aligned blink comparison:
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Hungry4info3 on 11/22/2019 03:53 pm
    Having one pixel to point to -- as a change between two images with vastly different lighting conditions -- doesn't really strike me as that convincing.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: SelSat on 11/25/2019 12:40 am
    What algorithm does NASA use to detect lunar lander crashes? Obviously NASA uses better resolution images than the 1.25m/pixel image (the last image that shows white pixel). Is it really possible to assume its Vikram Lander debris with just 1 pixel of 1.25m ?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phil Stooke on 11/25/2019 02:45 am
    Perhaps it is worth pointing out here that NASA as an agency is not involved.  This is work done by the LRO camera team based at Arizona State University.  They compare new images with older images taken with similar lighting.  I have done similar work - once carefully aligned, the images can be viewed alternately (like the Blink Comparator used to discover Pluto) and any change flickers on and off.  This was the method used to find the Chang'e 1 impact site and debris and it was something very similar that was used to find the Beresheet debris and similar things from LADEE and GRAIL.  The spacecraft would span a couple of pixels (even if the spacecraft was exactly the size of a pixel, it's not likely it would all fall within one pixel, more likely it would fall between pixels and contribute signal to several), its shadow would be much bigger with low angle lighting, and any debris thrown out by the impact would cover a larger area.  LRO is perfectly capable of finding the spacecraft if the image is looking at the right place and it's not lost in shadow.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/25/2019 04:26 am
    Hadn't seen this information before. If the lander was going slower than expected, that might explain why the lander turned upside down. A faulty algorithm might try to increase the lander speed to the expected value!

    https://www.spaceconnectonline.com.au/launch/3936-india-finally-makes-official-admission-that-chandrayaan-moon-mission-failed

    “The first phase of descent was performed nominally from an altitude of 30 kilometres to 7.4 kilometres above the moon surface,” the minister wrote.

    “The velocity was reduced from 1,683m/s to 146m/s. During the second phase of descent, the reduction in velocity was more than the designed value.

    “Due to this deviation, the initial conditions at the start of the fine braking phase were beyond the designed parameters. As a result, Vikram hard landed within 500 metres of the designated landing site.”
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 11/25/2019 12:02 pm
    Perhaps it is worth pointing out here that NASA as an agency is not involved.  This is work done by the LRO camera team based at Arizona State University.  They compare new images with older images taken with similar lighting.  I have done similar work - once carefully aligned, the images can be viewed alternately (like the Blink Comparator used to discover Pluto) and any change flickers on and off.  This was the method used to find the Chang'e 1 impact site and debris and it was something very similar that was used to find the Beresheet debris and similar things from LADEE and GRAIL.  The spacecraft would span a couple of pixels (even if the spacecraft was exactly the size of a pixel, it's not likely it would all fall within one pixel, more likely it would fall between pixels and contribute signal to several), its shadow would be much bigger with low angle lighting, and any debris thrown out by the impact would cover a larger area.  LRO is perfectly capable of finding the spacecraft if the image is looking at the right place and it's not lost in shadow.

    So is this kind of image comparison entirely done by eye? I would have thought that by now they'd  be doing this using some AI image-processing algorithm. When even CAT-scans and MRIs are diagnosed using AI these days, it seems like a similar approach would be ideal for searching the heavens for spacecraft.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: eeergo on 11/25/2019 12:53 pm
    Perhaps it is worth pointing out here that NASA as an agency is not involved.  This is work done by the LRO camera team based at Arizona State University.  They compare new images with older images taken with similar lighting.  I have done similar work - once carefully aligned, the images can be viewed alternately (like the Blink Comparator used to discover Pluto) and any change flickers on and off.  This was the method used to find the Chang'e 1 impact site and debris and it was something very similar that was used to find the Beresheet debris and similar things from LADEE and GRAIL.  The spacecraft would span a couple of pixels (even if the spacecraft was exactly the size of a pixel, it's not likely it would all fall within one pixel, more likely it would fall between pixels and contribute signal to several), its shadow would be much bigger with low angle lighting, and any debris thrown out by the impact would cover a larger area.  LRO is perfectly capable of finding the spacecraft if the image is looking at the right place and it's not lost in shadow.

    So is this kind of image comparison entirely done by eye? I would have thought that by now they'd  be doing this using some AI image-processing algorithm. When even CAT-scans and MRIs are diagnosed using AI these days, it seems like a similar approach would be ideal for searching the heavens for spacecraft.

    AIs are interesting for automated or large-volume / highly-noisy data analysis. When you're dealing with a small subset of images, with well-known before/after conditions and varying illumination, the best AI is NI (natural intelligence).
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: SelSat on 11/25/2019 01:00 pm
    Hadn't seen this information before. If the lander was going slower than expected, that might explain why the lander turned upside down. A faulty algorithm might try to increase the lander speed to the expected value!
    .....
    “Due to this deviation, the initial conditions at the start of the fine braking phase were beyond the designed parameters. As a result, Vikram hard landed within 500 metres of the designated landing site.”
    This indicates they have guessed where the vikram lander crashed so why isn't LRO not able to image the site ? I also wonder why Chandrayaan2 hasn't imaged the site at all?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phil Stooke on 11/25/2019 03:46 pm
    "...some AI image-processing algorithm."

    No AI is as smart as a human.  Also, if a machine finds something, you didn't.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: edzieba on 11/25/2019 05:49 pm
    Hadn't seen this information before. If the lander was going slower than expected, that might explain why the lander turned upside down. A faulty algorithm might try to increase the lander speed to the expected value!
    If the motors have a limited throttle range and non-zero startup and shutdown times as well as startup transient (i.e. are real-life motors and not spherical-cow thrusters), you'd want your algorithm to be trying to minimise startups and shutdowns and instead try and 'ride the throttle' within that controllable range as far down as possible. Faced with a slow entry, that algorithm would try and avoid starting any motors until as late as possible. That would leave any residual rotational velocity free to start spinning the lander, at which point a motor would need to kick in and correct it. If that motor has a minimum impulse it can impart greater than that needed to correct that spin (because the assumption is you could have two motors in opposition continuously thrusting and just be throttling them slightly- similar to how it is easier to precisely control the speed of a car between 20-22 MPH than it is between 0-2 MPH) it then spins the lander the opposite way, the opposite motor then needs to fire, and all the while the lander is trying not to use too much impulse to avoid flying back up again.
    Perhaps it is worth pointing out here that NASA as an agency is not involved.  This is work done by the LRO camera team based at Arizona State University.  They compare new images with older images taken with similar lighting.  I have done similar work - once carefully aligned, the images can be viewed alternately (like the Blink Comparator used to discover Pluto) and any change flickers on and off.  This was the method used to find the Chang'e 1 impact site and debris and it was something very similar that was used to find the Beresheet debris and similar things from LADEE and GRAIL.  The spacecraft would span a couple of pixels (even if the spacecraft was exactly the size of a pixel, it's not likely it would all fall within one pixel, more likely it would fall between pixels and contribute signal to several), its shadow would be much bigger with low angle lighting, and any debris thrown out by the impact would cover a larger area.  LRO is perfectly capable of finding the spacecraft if the image is looking at the right place and it's not lost in shadow.

    So is this kind of image comparison entirely done by eye? I would have thought that by now they'd  be doing this using some AI image-processing algorithm. When even CAT-scans and MRIs are diagnosed using AI these days, it seems like a similar approach would be ideal for searching the heavens for spacecraft.
    Computers are very stupid, very fast. Machine Learning is lots of stupid all at the same time.

    Less facetiously: you need a dataset to train your neural network on, and there is not a large collection of lunar orbit images of crashed Indian landers to train your NN what to look for.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: SelSat on 11/26/2019 12:48 am
    Less facetiously: you need a dataset to train your neural network on, and there is not a large collection of lunar orbit images of crashed Indian landers to train your NN what to look for.
    I believe they just look at reflectance change , not specifically for lander make. Project scientist of LRO has stated that  they used "a ratio of an image captured prior to the landing attempt to the one acquired on October 14" to detect the lander. He also states that "this approach is used for finding new meteorite impacts on the Moon that also helped locate the recent Beresheet" May be NN can detect the reflectance change and the LRO team can check whether the reflectance is of lander or crater.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 11/26/2019 08:49 am
    Hadn't seen this information before. If the lander was going slower than expected, that might explain why the lander turned upside down. A faulty algorithm might try to increase the lander speed to the expected value!
    .....
    “Due to this deviation, the initial conditions at the start of the fine braking phase were beyond the designed parameters. As a result, Vikram hard landed within 500 metres of the designated landing site.”
    This indicates they have guessed where the vikram lander crashed so why isn't LRO not able to image the site ? I also wonder why Chandrayaan2 hasn't imaged the site at all?
    I think nobody has found neither imaged anything, nor ISRO neither LRO, just because  they have no "magic cameras" which allow imaging a 1-meter-wide object at such a resolution they can distinguish that it landed on its side.
    I guess it's just the usual "mis-translation" which comes from an information in non-english language passing from social to forum to twitter to social to site to blog, when only main keywords survive; so probably the original sentence in Indy was kind of "Vikram lander was rotating during last part of descent  and it was not able to perform a soft landing , we will try imaging it with our high resolution camera".
    At the end it resulted in:
    "Vikram landed rotated on its side and it was imaged by high resolution camera".


    The reality is that unless the lander  exploded upon impact and we can see the soil disturbance even in low-res images, we'll never know its actual condition until we'll be able to get 0,10m/pixel images or less, but LRO can't go below 0.30m/pixel. Exact optical characteristics of Chandrayaan orbiter cannot be found so we can't even calculate the maximum resolution it can achieve depending on altitude.


    Re-posting a comparison image:
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phil Stooke on 11/26/2019 07:22 pm
    We have no information about the statement that the lander is within 500 m of its target.  I think that is no more than an expectation, or even a hope.  And frankly, if it was within the area imaged by LRO so far AND it had indeed been imaged by Chandrayaan 2's high resolution camera, it would have been seen in LRO images.  The lander would be resolvable, probably contributing to several pixels even if it is only the size of a single pixel, and its shadow would be even more visible - if intact.  If it's not intact, the disturbed surface would be visible as well.  The most likely explanation is that it is outside the current LRO NAC coverage.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Unni on 11/28/2019 05:59 am

    This indicates they have guessed where the vikram lander crashed so why isn't LRO not able to image the site ? I also wonder why Chandrayaan2 hasn't imaged the site at all?
    Exact optical characteristics of Chandrayaan orbiter cannot be found so we can't even calculate the maximum resolution it can achieve depending on altitude.

    From the ISRO website
    Quote
    Orbiter High Resolution Camera (OHRC)
    OHRC provides high-resolution images of the landing site — ensuring the Lander's safe touchdown by detecting any craters or boulders prior to separation. The images it captures, taken from two different look angles, serve dual purposes. Firstly, they are used to generate DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) of the landing site. Secondly, they are used for scientific research, post-lander separation. OHRC's images will be captured over the course of two orbits, covering an area of 12 km x 3 km with a ground resolution of 0.32 m.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 11/28/2019 11:30 am

    This indicates they have guessed where the vikram lander crashed so why isn't LRO not able to image the site ? I also wonder why Chandrayaan2 hasn't imaged the site at all?
    Exact optical characteristics of Chandrayaan orbiter cannot be found so we can't even calculate the maximum resolution it can achieve depending on altitude.

    From the ISRO website
    Quote
    Orbiter High Resolution Camera (OHRC)
    OHRC provides high-resolution images of the landing site — ensuring the Lander's safe touchdown by detecting any craters or boulders prior to separation. The images it captures, taken from two different look angles, serve dual purposes. Firstly, they are used to generate DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) of the landing site. Secondly, they are used for scientific research, post-lander separation. OHRC's images will be captured over the course of two orbits, covering an area of 12 km x 3 km with a ground resolution of 0.32 m.
    Yes, this is all I was able to find, too.  But by "exact optical characteristics" I mean Field Of View (FOV) in degrees and sensor width in pixel, so as to be able to determine actual ground resolution depending on altitude.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: SelSat on 11/30/2019 05:40 am
    Quote
    Yes, this is all I was able to find, too.  But by "exact optical characteristics" I mean Field Of View (FOV) in degrees and sensor width in pixel, so as to be able to determine actual ground resolution depending on altitude.
    For ground resolution we just need IFOV so we solve for IFOV
    Quote
    2*100*1000 *Tan[(IFOV)/2]=0.32
    and get  3.2 micro radian.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Blackstar on 12/02/2019 07:38 pm
    http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1131?fbclid=IwAR1aA0b1hSjPzNZ2JQVJwt73EPrKsd2TE3jT_zs__4vPcKDbF-Kx70qrc0M

    "Vikram Lander Found"

    "The Chandrayaan 2 Vikram lander was targeted for a highland smooth plain about 600 kilometers from the south pole; unfortunately the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) lost contact with their lander shortly before the scheduled touchdown (7 September in India, 6th September in the United States).  Despite the loss, getting that close to the surface was an amazing achievement. The LROC team released the first mosaic (acquired 17 September) of the site on 26 September and many people have downloaded the mosaic to search for signs of Vikram. Shanmuga Subramanian contacted the LRO project with a positive identification of debris. After receiving this tip the LROC team confirmed the identification by comparing before and after images. When the images for the first mosaic were acquired the impact point was poorly illuminated and thus not easily identifiable. Two subsequent image sequences were acquired on 14, 15 October and 11 November. The LROC team scoured the surrounding area in these new mosaics and found the impact site (70.8810°S,  22.7840°E, 834 m elevation) and associated debris field. The November mosaic had the best pixel scale (0.7 meter) and lighting conditions (72° incidence angle).

    The debris first located by Shanmuga is about 750 meters northwest of the main crash site and was a single bright pixel identification in that first mosaic (1.3 meter pixels, 84° incidence angle). The November mosaic shows best the impact crater, ray and extensive debris field. The three largest pieces of debris are each about 2x2 pixels and cast a one pixel shadow."
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Svetoslav on 12/02/2019 07:50 pm
    Now I am really curious what was the basis of all these speculations we all read: intact, tilted, landed in one piece...

    Nothing like that. 

    It has crashed. Crashed! And it's in numerous small pieces!
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: whitelancer64 on 12/02/2019 08:20 pm
    Finally. Glad to have some closure on this.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 12/02/2019 11:31 pm
    Perhaps the Chandrayaan-2 orbiter will also try to do some analysis when it makes an overflight.

    So anyway, I guess making the legs stronger isn't likely to help at such high impact velocities  :P

    Does anybody think that the NASA laser reflector could have survived and be lying intact among the debris?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 12/03/2019 03:33 am
    Impact site, planned Landing site, a place where was signal loss

    Looking at this reference, telemetry was correct:
    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1995082#msg1995082
    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20324.0;attach=1584653;image
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 12/03/2019 04:27 am
    I drew the planned landing site:

    zubenelgenubi: Please attach, not embed, files.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Phillip Clark on 12/03/2019 06:30 am
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-50639933
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lamid on 12/03/2019 12:01 pm
    Someone could explain me, how did the debris reach the north of the impact site?
    Exploded Lander?
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: chota on 12/03/2019 04:36 pm
    Different Debris

    Just wondering, how is it even possible? Does it mean  lander has exploded or disintegrated before landing or after hard landing, a Sub 2 m Lander has scattered objects so far off like a aeroplane crash  ::)

    I like ISRO's response     :D

    On being contacted to seek Isro's reply on Shan's findings,  ..

    Read more at:
    http://m.timesofindia.com/articleshow/72357057.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: ncb1397 on 12/04/2019 12:00 am
    An interview with the guy NASA credited with finding it...

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/i-was-hooked-to-nasas-moon-surface-images-for-days-shanmuga-subramanian-who-found-lost-vikram-lander/videoshow/72344159.cms
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 12/04/2019 03:49 am
    This was ISRO's response:

    On being contacted to seek Isro's reply on Shan's findings, Isro scientific secretary Uma Maheswaran told TOI, "I have nothing to comment on it as Isro had already found Vikram. We had already declared on our website three days after the landing date that 'Vikram has been found'."

    I think that's a pretty poor response from ISRO. They should have published the crash location and image as soon as they found it. The least they could do now is publish their image.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 12/04/2019 04:36 am
    Ah well, it seems like ISRO needs to be more forthcoming on what information it makes available to the public.

    Here's an interview with Shanmuga Subramaniam, the Chennai-based amateur enthusiast who found the signs of the Vikram crash site on LRO's image data:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4D_GhT6fCc
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: SelSat on 12/04/2019 08:13 am
    This was ISRO's response:

    On being contacted to seek Isro's reply on Shan's findings, Isro scientific secretary Uma Maheswaran told TOI, "I have nothing to comment on it as Isro had already found Vikram. We had already declared on our website three days after the landing date that 'Vikram has been found'."

    I think that's a pretty poor response from ISRO. They should have published the crash location and image as soon as they found it. The least they could do now is publish their image.
    Now even ISRO chief Dr.Sivan has started claiming Chandrayaan2 first located the debris! Its funny that ISRO tried communicating with debris through IDSN (Indian Deep Space Network)  ;D and even requested NASA to contact debris through DSN ;D for weeks! This is really embarrassing. He should just keep mum and concentrate on future missions.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 12/04/2019 08:28 am
    Just for reference:

    zubenelgenubi: Please attach, not embed, files.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 12/04/2019 08:30 am
    And a fast-blinking gif for better highlighting differences:
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: SelSat on 12/04/2019 09:07 am
    Someone could explain me, how did the debris reach the north of the impact site?
    Exploded Lander?
    Seems so. May be just before crashing, the portion facing North side exploded  which is why most of the debris on North side are far away. The furthest one is ~2982 m away! A simple calculation shows minimum velocity to reach that distance from elevation of 834m is ~218.268 kmph (60.6312 m/sec) :o
    (Angle: ~37 deg. It is not 45 deg for projectiles launched from an elevation)

    P.S: I am not sure if mild explosion will disturb the rigolith enough to show up as higher reflectance
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: chetan_chpd on 12/04/2019 09:13 am
    This was ISRO's response:

    On being contacted to seek Isro's reply on Shan's findings, Isro scientific secretary Uma Maheswaran told TOI, "I have nothing to comment on it as Isro had already found Vikram. We had already declared on our website three days after the landing date that 'Vikram has been found'."

    I think that's a pretty poor response from ISRO. They should have published the crash location and image as soon as they found it. The least they could do now is publish their image.
    Now even ISRO chief Dr.Sivan has started claiming Chandrayaan2 first located the debris! Its funny that ISRO tried communicating with debris through IDSN (Indian Deep Space Network)  ;D and even requested NASA to contact debris through DSN ;D for weeks! This is really embarrassing. He should just keep mum and concentrate on future missions.

    may be, ISRO spotted only that "SSE" part of debris which marks a clear straight line disturbance on lunar surface, thinking that is the whole spacecraft crash landed...

    note: ISRO- CH-2 team had no experience like NASA-LRO mission team to carefully analyze images and track man-made objects for many years   +   bad lighting conditions post landing attempt
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: John Moore on 12/08/2019 10:09 pm
    Below, just a location marker (white square) of the LROC 100m scale (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/ckeditor_assets/pictures/847/content_Vikram_Impact_Blink.gif) image on top of the LROC 1Km scale (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/ckeditor_assets/pictures/848/content_Vikram_Ejecta_1100px_scalebar.png) image as presented on the LROC site (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1131). Simply a comparison view to the spread/extent of debris in both images.

    John Moore

    edit zubenelgenubi: Please attach, not embed, files.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: chota on 12/12/2019 09:00 am
    Final moments -  Chandrayaan2 Vikram Lander's Descent Trajectory Simulation

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFhUeF3EEF4&t=693s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFhUeF3EEF4&t=693s)
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: TheVarun on 12/14/2019 05:30 pm
    ^

    Nice, encouraging chronicle of Vikram's descent,though produced well before the recent locating of the lander.  There's  no chance of Pragyan coming 'alive' now. 

    But video shows that Vikram tried to, and did, correct its speed/orientation more than once, but whatever initial deviation or anomaly proved a little too much.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: chota on 01/21/2020 03:56 pm
    C2 has spun out of control as per following article

    Probably this explains why the C2 parts got disintegrated and got scattered all over the place

    https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/science/chandrayaan-2-vikram-lander-landing-site-isro-k-sivan-6205269/ (https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/science/chandrayaan-2-vikram-lander-landing-site-isro-k-sivan-6205269/)

    > Vikram lander ended up spinning over 410 degrees, deviating from a calibrated spin of 55 degrees
    > Data is available right upto 400 metres before the landing
    > Vikram hard-landed within 500 m of the designated landing site
    > Chandrayaan-3 has been cleared for launch in 14-16 months (Mostly Nov 2021)
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: chota on 01/28/2020 08:24 am
    Few more articles on the C2 landing failure. Nothing new but additional views


    Did Vikram have a ‘hard landing’ or did it crash onto the Moon? (https://www.deccanherald.com/opinion/panorama/did-vikram-have-a-hard-landing-or-did-it-crash-onto-the-moon-796911.html)

    How India's moon crash wasn't really a failure (op-ed) (https://www.space.com/india-moon-landing-not-a-failure.html)

    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 03/12/2020 09:30 am
    Chandrayaan-2 data generating highest-resolution map of Moon's surface:

    https://www.universetoday.com/145356/indias-chandrayaan-2-is-creating-the-highest-resolution-map-we-have-of-the-moon/
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: chetan_chpd on 08/24/2020 11:08 am
    sadly, ISRO is keeping everything tight lipped 'EVEN' for a RTI (Right To Information) request like below, and many more like this

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ISRO/comments/hq025v/late_update_cy2_rti_appellate_reply/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ISRO/comments/dw5yyx/making_use_of_rti_to_probe_into_the_cy2_mission/
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: zubenelgenubi on 11/03/2020 08:24 pm
    Recent Pragyan rover assertions and discussion deleted.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 11/04/2020 07:58 am
    Dr G Madhavan Nair, the former ISRO chairman who led the Chandrayaan-1 mission, has voiced his disagreement with the way ISRO has handled the Chandrayaan-2 landing failure:

    https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/isro-should-be-transparent-ex-chief-isro-denies-info-vikram-lander-failure-136827

    Quote
    An RTI response accessed by the Times of India has revealed that the Indian Space Research Organisation is unlikely to reveal details about why Chandrayaan-2’s Vikram Lander could not make a successful soft landing on the moon. It has been more a year since the mission was launched, and since the Chandrayaan orbiter was placed into the moon’s orbit. ISRO has traditionally made public the Failure Analysis Committee (FAC) reports of all its failed missions.

    According to the TOI report, the RTI query was filed by Sathish GN, a resident of Bengaluru. Sathish had sought the details of the FAC report on the hard landing of Vikram lander. However, the RTI response states that this information cannot be divulged under Section 8(1) of the RTI Act. This section lists exemption of disclosure of information that would “prejudicially affect the sovereignty and integrity of India, the security, strategic, scientific or economic interests of the State, relation with foreign State or lead to incitement of an offence.”

    A veteran scientist and former ISRO Chief said that ISRO’s decision may not be the best. “I don’t think the decision taken by ISRO is correct. ISRO has been doing a transparent job and has been a transparent organisation. Just by showing where and how it landed will not affect national security. They have given a lame excuse, that is all,” Dr G Madhavan Nair said.

    Dr Nair added that even when pictures of the debris were shared by the Chennai engineer, ISRO had not made any official comment about the same.

    “Our pictures and NASA’s pictures show it (Vikram lander) is disintegrated. In my opinion, ISRO is (supposed to be) perfectly and completely transparent. That culture they should maintain,” Dr Nair said.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 11/05/2020 12:52 pm
    National Security impacted by a space crash?!?  ???
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 11/05/2020 05:59 pm
    National Security impacted by a space crash?!?  ???

    It was a pro forma type of reply to an RTI.  (India's "Right to Information" Act is analogous to America's "Freedom of Information" Act) A citizen was petitioning for release of details regarding the Chandrayaan-2 landing failure as documented in the report by ISRO's internal Failure Analysis Committee - but a response was declined using an exception clause which generically cites various possible grounds including national security. Bureaucratic obfuscation by the Deep State.  :-X

    Not to digress too much into civics & politics, but this isn't really the way the system is supposed to function. It's not supposed to solely/mainly rely on "Freedom of Information" requests from ordinary citizens and activist journalists, just to bring important matters into public view.
    By comparison, in the United States there are Congressional panels which exercise oversight over various depts & agencies (eg. NASA), investigating failures and other issues, since the US Congress ultimately controls their funding. India does likewise have parliamentary committees which are supposed to do the same thing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_parliamentary_committees#Department-related_standing_committees

    https://www.prsindia.org/parliamentary-committees/2183

    It's one thing to turn down a "Freedom of Information" request made by a private citizen, but it's quite another thing to refuse inquiries made by a legislator / elected representative who has some actual pull. And that's where members of parliamentary panels could have gotten involved.

    However after the Chandrayaan-2 landing failure, unfortunately there was no concerted attempt by the relevant standing committee to launch an investigation into the situation. Questions were asked in parliament, and replies were given in parliament by the govt minister, but after that no further follow-up was done by any members of parliament.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/vikram-made-hard-landing-govt-in-ls/story-u9Q01luC73wo42cT8fxzlO.html

    The chairman of the relevant parliamentary committee, Jairam Ramesh, was appointed in September 2019,  just about a week after the Chandrayaan-2 landing attempt.

    https://twitter.com/jairam_ramesh/status/1172757614129639424?lang=en

    As a member of the opposition party, he's shown a willingness to take the govt to task on its space policies and activities, in order to make his presence felt on the committee:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6fMM_jbl00

    He has a technical background, and he's demonstrated the political will to go after the govt.

    But ISRO is very popular among the Indian public and a source of national pride. I don't think anybody wanted to be seen as beating up on ISRO, or kicking them when they were down, during a moment of adversity. The interviewer above did make the blunder of doing that in the post-landing press conference, and reaped an avalanche of public criticism for it.

    https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/journalist-draws-flak-for-heckling-isro-scientist-during-press-conference-apologizes-on-twitter-2300307.html


    So perhaps that may have been why the ball was dropped rather than being taken up by parliamentary voices in a timely way.

    We're all then just taking it on faith that ISRO's Failure Analysis Committee has traced the root causes of the landing failure, and is making the necessary corrections for the next re-attempt.
    And as the ultimate fallback, ISRO will be able to draw upon the expertise of the global fraternity of space technologists to figure out the best way to avoid a repetition of the same problem.

    But again, that's not ideally how the system is supposed to work.  :P
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: zubenelgenubi on 11/05/2020 07:08 pm
    It was a pro forma type of reply to an RTI...
    First of all, thank you for the detailed civics/recent events information.  I thought it deserved more than a like, especially for those of us without an intimate knowledge of Indian civics.

    We don't have a discussion thread, nor do I think we need to at this juncture.  My opinion: continued discussion is ok.

    FWIW, I would encourage this effort to continue.  Perhaps a more concerted effort, this long after the fact, by technologists, interested citizens such as the RTI filer, and politicians, could result in a belated positive response from ISRO.  Either via RTI, or parliamentary questions.

    Technical reason: Demonstration to the citizenry and Parliament that the failure tree has been thoroughly investigated and causes mitigated/corrected: due diligence and effective follow-up action.  ISRO and the government could execute this with a positive spin; a win for all concerned.

    A cynical observation: This information might not be released until after a successful landing of the Chandrayaan-3 lander and rover.  Probably in a "Friday evening" or "newspaper back page" fashion.

    PM me re: my reasonable consultant fee :)
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: gongora on 11/28/2020 03:02 pm
    https://fcc.report/IBFS/SES-STA-20201125-01271
    Quote
    USN test support for Chandrayaan-2   
    Chandrayaan-2 is the second lunar mission of the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO).  Chandrayaan-2 is currently orbiting the moon and will explore the polar regions of which this data is essential for the future US/Japanese lunar base.  This test support will allow for the evaluation if data collected from Hawaii can benefit the science mission. If successful USN will seek further authorization to collect data.The test support is scheduled to be conducted for a minimum of 30 days for 2 hours each day when the moon is in view of the station.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: otter on 12/26/2020 06:11 am
    https://twitter.com/isro/status/1342095234126151692

    Quote
    First set of #Chandrayaan2 payload's data are publicly released for wider science use.

    For details visit
    https://www.isro.gov.in/update/24-dec-2020/chandrayaan-2-mission-initial-data-release
    https://issdc.gov.in
    https://pradan.issdc.gov.in
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 01/05/2021 09:38 pm
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hy8iWu11io
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/06/2021 06:46 am
    In summary, the early pictures had some image blur, but the new images have fixed that and show amazing 25 cm resolution (much better than LRO) for the three images that were released. Unfortunately, there were no images showing landers or crash sites. Image size is 94000x12000 pixels! Also released were terrain mapping camera pictures with a resolution in metres, but takes images at 25° ahead, down and 25° behind, allowing three dimensional mapping of the Lunar surface.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: vyoma on 09/05/2021 07:45 pm
    https://www.isro.gov.in/lunar-science-workshop-and-release-of-chandrayaan-2-data-being-organised-isro-6-to-7-september-2021

    Lunar Science Workshop and Release of Chandrayaan-2 data is being organised by ISRO from 6 to 7 September, 2021, in virtual mode:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtfZeF-8zrw
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: abcd_indya on 10/18/2021 08:30 pm
    any news on RCA of the Chandrayaan-2 lander failure? seems like everyone has already forgotten about it :(
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: sanman on 10/20/2021 02:58 am
    Here's an article mentioning a bit about Chandrayaan-2, and how the Gaganyaan mission may take priority over Chandrayaan-3:

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-3-may-have-to-wait-its-turn/articleshow/87066808.cms

    Quote
    As reported first by TOI, Chandrayaan-3 will see major design changes compared to the previous mission, key among which is the decision to drop the fifth engine, which was added last minute on Vikram (Chandrayaan-2’s lander).

    The lander for this mission will have only four engines, while the overseeing committee has also suggested a minor modification on the legs on the lander, inclusion of the laser doppler velocimeter (LDV) for better measurement of speed during landing, among other things.

    The modifications being proposed on Chandrayaan-3 — which were indicators of shortcomings in Chandrayaan-2 — also include changes in software and algorithms, strengthening of the legs, and better power and communication systems.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: slobber91 on 11/16/2021 10:47 am
    Lunar orbit is getting crowded...

    Chandrayaan-2 performed a collision avoidance maneuver on 20 October due to a predicted close (<100m) approach with the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter:

    https://www.isro.gov.in/update/15-nov-2021/chandrayaan-2-orbiter-ch2o-performs-evasive-manoeuvre-to-mitigate-critically

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/chandrayaan2-orbiter-moved-to-avoid-collision-with-nasa-s-lunar-orbiter-last-month-isro-101637051007640.html

    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: vyoma on 02/20/2022 09:44 pm
    https://www.unoosa.org/documents/pdf/copuos/stsc/2022/19_INDIA_Item8_Indias_efforts_in_Space_Debris_Management.pdf
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: vyoma on 02/23/2022 11:21 pm
    https://www.isro.gov.in/update/23-feb-2022/chandrayaan-2-detected-solar-proton-events-due-to-high-intensity-solar-flares

    Quote
    Chandrayaan-2 detected solar proton events due to high intensity solar flares in January 2022.

    When Sun is active, spectacular eruptions called solar flares occur that sometimes also spew out energetic particles (called Solar Proton Events or SPEs) into interplanetary space. Most of these are high energy protons that impact space systems and significantly increase radiation exposure to humans in space. They can cause ionisation on large scales in Earth's middle atmosphere.  Many intense solar flares are accompanied by coronal mass ejections (CMEs), a powerful stream of ionised material and magnetic fields, which reach Earth a few days later, leading to geomagnetic storms and lighting up the polar sky with auroras.

    Solar flares are classified according to their strength.  The smallest ones are A-class, followed by B, C, M and X. Each letter represents a 10-fold increase in energy output.  This means that an M class flare is ten times intense than C-class flare and 100 times intense than B-class flare. Within each letter class there is a finer scale from 1 to 9 i.e a M2 flare is twice the strength of M1 flare.

    Recently, there were two M-class solar flares. One flare (M5.5) spewed out energetic particles into interplanetary space and the other flare (M1.5) was accompanied by a Coronal Mass Ejection (CME). SPE event was seen by NASA's Geostationary Operational Environmental Satellite (GOES) satellite orbiting around Earth. However, the CME event was not detected by GOES.

    Chandrayaan-2 Large Area Soft X-ray Spectrometer (CLASS) on-board Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter detected SPE due to an M5.5 class solar flare that occurred on January 20, 2022 (blue curve). The red curve shows the proton counts due to SPE recorded by GOES satellite operated by NOAA.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: vyoma on 02/23/2022 11:36 pm
    Apollo 12 and Surveyor captured by Chandrayaan 2 orbiter:

    https://twitter.com/NickAstronomer/status/1496525543642177539

    https://twitter.com/NickAstronomer/status/1496488877841952773

    https://twitter.com/ThePlanetaryGuy/status/1496567996327809027
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 02/26/2022 08:27 am
    I cannot find any schematic diagram of just descent stage seen from above, any clue? I thought it was just a flat pad, but it looks more complex.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: lykos on 02/26/2022 05:04 pm
    It had to have a big hole in the middle for the engine/thrust.
    And it was as light as possible.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: vyoma on 03/08/2022 05:55 am
    https://www.isro.gov.in/update/08-mar-2022/chace-2-onboard-chandrayaan-2-orbiter-makes-first-observations-of-global

    Quote
    CHACE-2 Onboard Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter makes the First Observations of the Global Distribution of Argon-40 in the Exosphere of Moon

    The Chandra’s Atmospheric Composition Explorer-2 (CHACE-2), a quadrupole mass spectrometer onboard Chandrayaan-2 mission has made the first-of-its-kind observations of the global distribution of Argon-40 in the tenuous lunar exosphere.  These observations provide insight on the dynamics of the lunar exospheric species, as well as on the radiogenic activities in the first few tens of meters below the lunar surface.

    Quote
    The CHACE-2 observations provide the diurnal and spatial variation of Ar-40 covering the equatorial and mid latitude regions of the Moon.  The uniqueness of this result from Chandrayaan-2 mission lies in the fact that although Apollo-17 and LADEE missions have detected the presence of Ar-40 in the lunar exosphere, the measurements were confined to the near-equatorial region of the Moon. As there is a steep latitudinal temperature gradient of the lunar surface, it was, so far, a gap area to study the global dynamics of the lunar exospheric species, which is a temperature-driven process.  In this context, the observations by CHACE-2 onboard Chandrayaan-2 orbiter on Ar-40 up to the mid-latitude regions (−60º to +60º) play a significant role to bridge the gap in the knowledge.

    CHACE-2 observations reveal an increase in the number density of Ar-40 near the sunrise terminator, a decrease through the dayside, a secondary peak near sunset terminator and a night-side minima. This is the typical behaviour of a condensable gas.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: spacexplorer on 03/08/2022 02:11 pm
    It had to have a big hole in the middle for the engine/thrust.
    And it was as light as possible.
    There was no hole in the descent stage, the ascent engine barely touched it; maybe what we see is the "marking" of ascent stage exhausts?

    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: vyoma on 06/26/2022 02:45 am
    Handbook of Chandrayaan 2 Payloads Data & Science (August 2021): https://www.isro.gov.in/sites/default/files/article-files/node/16338/hand_book_-_payloads_data_and_science.pdf
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: vyoma on 07/08/2022 05:51 pm
    https://www.isro.gov.in/update/08-jul-2022/tmc-2-imaged-rocket-booster-impact-lunar-surface

    Quote
    Jul 08, 2022
    TMC-2 imaged Rocket Booster Impact on the Lunar Surface

    On 4th March 2022, a spent rocket booster hit the lunar surface near the Hertzsprung crater, which is in the far side of the Moon.  The impact created a double crater which is ~28m wide.  Terrain Mapping Camera – 2 (TMC-2) onboard Chandrayaan-2 imaged the far side of the Moon in April 2022 and identified the impact site.

    Quote
    The above image shows the comparison between the regions which is imaged before impact (21st February 2022) and after impact (3rd April 2022). The yellow arrow mark indicates the new crater formed due to the impact.  The spatial resolution of TMC-2 is 5m and the image is zoomed four times.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: Comga on 07/08/2022 06:31 pm
    It had to have a big hole in the middle for the engine/thrust.
    And it was as light as possible.
    There was no hole in the descent stage, the ascent engine barely touched it; maybe what we see is the "marking" of ascent stage exhausts?
    The "hole" in the descent stage is more like a pocket into which the end of the ascent stage engine bell fit.
    With both being on the centerline, it fired directly at the descent stage engine.
    Several of the side panels were no more than MLI that was blown out upon ascent engine ignition.
    Some of what is seen around that descent stage is that torn-away MLI.

    Image from sse-resetsg.blogspot.com

    IIRC, the first time an ascent stage engine was ignited while sticking into the descent stage was the launch of the Apollo 11 ascent stage from the lunar surface with Armstrong and Aldrin inside.  There may have been no facility in which to test that on Earth, and reasons not to test that during Apollo 9.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: vyoma on 08/07/2022 06:17 pm
    https://www.isro.gov.in/update/07-aug-2022/dfrs-payload-onboard-chandrayaan-2-orbiter-detects-high-density-plasma-lunar-wake

    Quote
    Aug 07, 2022

    DFRS payload onboard Chandrayaan-2 orbiter detects high density plasma in the Lunar wake region.

    The Moon is believed to have a very tenuous atmosphere. Since the ionosphere derives its origin from the atmosphere the plasma density at the Moon is considered to be only a few hundred ions per cubic centimeter. Measurements made using the Dual Frequency Radio Science (DFRS) experiment onboard Chandrayaan-2 orbiter, however, have shown that Moon’s ionosphere has a plasma density of the order of 104 cm-3, in the wake region which is at least one order of magnitude more than that is present in the day side.

    Chandrayaan-2, the second Indian Lunar exploration mission launched by the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) on 22 July 2019, carried several payloads, among which the DFRS was designed to study the lunar ionosphere. It uses two coherent signals at the S-band (2240 MHz) and X-band (8496 MHz) of radio frequencies, transmitted from the Chandrayaan-2 orbiter and received at the ground station at Byalalu, Bangalore to explore the lunar plasma ambiance using the radio occultation (RO) technique. Simultaneous measurements by two coherent radio signals help to mitigate the effect of the Earth’s atmosphere and any uncertainties due to various sources during the experiments. The DFRS payload was conceptualized and jointly developed by Space Physics Laboratory (SPL) of Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, Trivandrum; UR Rao Space Centre (URSC), Bangalore; and ISRO Telemetry, Tracking, and Command Network (ISTRAC), Bangalore. For the RO observations, an algorithm to estimate the integrated electron density profile was developed at SPL and used to study the Moon’s ionosphere in the lunar wake region, a region of the Lunar ionosphere that does not directly interact with the solar wind.

    A total of 12 radio occultation experiments have been conducted in campaign mode on four different occasions based on carefully selected geometry suitable for the RO measurements. Detailed analysis shows that the total electron content along the ray path in the Lunar ionosphere can be as large as 1.5 TECU (1 TECU = 1016 m-2) with the uncertainty of 0.15 TECU, in the Lunar wake region. Large electron content is also seen near lunar polar regions during solar twilight conditions. These findings are unique and first of its kind as they show substantial post-sunset enhancement in plasma density compared to the dayside values reported so far by earlier missions.

    The observed large enhancements in electron density in the Lunar wake region open new dimensions in understanding the lunar dark side plasma environment. In the wake region, neither the solar radiation nor the solar wind interacts directly with the available neutral particles, but still, the plasma is getting generated. Numerical simulations of the dark side of plasma environment using a 3-dimensional Lunar Ionospheric Model (3D-LIM) developed at SPL suggest that the production of ions by charge exchange reactions may play a pivotal role in producing a significantly large plasma density in the Lunar wake region, which can sustain for a longer period.  The model suggests that the dominant ions in the wake region are Ar+, and Ne+ which have a comparatively longer lifetime than the molecular ions (CO2+, and H2O+ )  that are dominant at other regions. On the other hand, fraction of the ions produced by solar radiation during the daytime is swept by solar wind, leading to reduced daytime plasma density. 

    These path-breaking scientific results on the Moon's ionosphere using DFRS payload onboard the Chandrayaan-2 orbiter and modeling of the physical mechanism are published in the Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society- Letter; "A study on the characteristic features of the Lunar ionosphere using dual-frequency radio science (DFRS) experiment onboard Chandrayaan-2 orbiter", Keshav R. Tripathi, R. K. Choudhary, K. M. Ambili, K. R. Bindu, R. Manikantan and Umang Parikh, DOI: 10.1093/mnrasl/slac058 (https://doi.org/10.1093/mnrasl/slac058)

    Quote
    Figure 1: Top left panel: Ray-tracing of radio signals in the lunar ionosphere. A1 is the point of impact factor on the given ray path, Top right panel: Comparison of observed and simulated ray-path integrated electron density for the Chandrayaan-2 orbit no. 1960 for the occultation experiment at a location inside the Lunar wake, Bottom left panel: Electron density profiles simulated using the 3D-LIM model for three different conditions (Lunar wake, Solar terminator, and local noon). The electron density is of an order of magnitude higher inside the lunar wake region, Bottom right panel:  Altitude/latitude/longitude variations of electron density along the ray path as simulated by 3D-LIM. The color bar represents the electron density at different points along the radio path.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 08/10/2023 05:50 pm
    https://twitter.com/djsnm/status/1689691819406503936

    Quote
    So here's my full explanation for why the Vikram Lander in Chandrayaan-2 crashed back in 2019. We still don't have much data to go on, but a few news pieces of information give us a working timeline.
    It crashed because of software problems and a valve not operating properly.

    Quote
    The next phase was to begin fine navigation for landing, cutting the thrust and performing a 38 second 'camera coast' where the spacecraft held a specific attitude while the navigation sensors checked the terrain to figure out where the landing site was.

    Quote
    Unfortunately, it appears that when they actuated the throttle control valves at the fastest rate they did not close as much as expected. The result was the spacecraft had more thrust than it was supposed to.
    Expected acceleration of 2.13m/s vs actual ~2.8m/s

    Quote
    We know the expected acceleration because we have start and end conditions for the 38s camera coast phase. The actual condition is approximated from the snippets of telemetry we saw.

    Quote
    During camera coast the spacecraft held steady and didn't try to fix any navigation errors, so the spacecraft built up a huge error from where it was supposed  to be ~500m in space, and velocity ~25m/s. It was higher than it should be, moving slower, and further from target.

    Quote
    So it began to reorient to correct for this, and while I'm not 100% sure, I think it pitched forward and continued all the way though a 410 degree rotation. However, it may have rotated the other direction for all we know.

    Quote
    This took some time because the software limited the rotation to 10 degrees per second, in effect the rotation limits meant it was like dog chasing its tail to try and reach a desired velocity state. It quickly ran out of time and altitude.

    Quote
    The final telemetry came 7 seconds before impact, and it looks like the impact speed was about 140miles per hour.

    Quote
    You can see this in the doppler data from Cees Bassa @cgbassa - note the kink 38 seconds before the anomaly where the deceleration changes, then the acceleration as the spacecraft tries to make up lost ground, then tries to slow before hitting the surface.

    Quote
    So it's a combination of a valve which misperformed, software which inhibited from reacting until it was too late, and software limits which made recovery impossible. I'm not 100% sure, but all these parts now fit together into a sensible story.
    All of these are fixed on CY3.
    Title: Re: Chandrayaan-2 Mission - Launch and Landing Coverage
    Post by: illectro on 08/10/2023 10:40 pm
    Important to add the presentation which gave me the final clues:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ2sNRP1opY