The probe is slated to launch in 2013, long after China's current Chang'e 2 moon mission ends.
China launched the Chang'e 2 probe on Oct. 1. It reached the moon Wednesday (Oct. 5).
India, meanwhile, approved plans for its Chandrayaan 2 mission in August. But unlike China's new probe, which is an orbiter, Chandrayaan 2 actually includes three vehicles: an orbiter, lander and rover, the Indian Space Research Organisation said.
Does it mean all major missions till Chandrayaan-2 will only use indigenous engines? Since the Russian engine has to be examined, will Chandrayaan-2 be delayed?
Yes, it has to be tested on indigenous cryogenic engines, and we’ll only use our engines for future launches, but that is not why there will be a delay. Historically, the Chandrayaan missions are a joint Indo-Soviet mission. The agreement was that the lander [that will descend on the moon] and the (lunar) rover (a robot vehicle) would be provided by the Russians. We wanted to put a smaller rover; it’s something new that we are developing. However, in Russia there was a rethink. They decided they’ll only develop the lander and some instruments related to it. That means India would have to make a bigger rover, a decision taken almost a year ago. There are also preliminary design reviews to be undertaken this year to select which instruments are to be carried onboard the mission. So it’s not only GSLV (engines); there are other reasons for the delay.
Russian sources say that the failure of the Phobos-Grunt mission will impact the Chandrayaan-2 mission, delaying it by 3 years:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/article2854134.ece
This is because technologies and systems used in Phobos-Grunt are also present in the Russian lander which is to be used for the Chandrayaan-2 mission, and these will have to be subjected to review.
The Chandrayaan-2 mission was originally scheduled for launch in 2013, but was facing delays due to the 2 consecutive failures of the GSLV. The mission is now expected to be delayed until 2016, due to the failure of Phobos-Grunt.
Here's an image of the prototype Chandrayaan-2 lunar rover being developed at IIT-Kanpur:
http://lunarnetworks.blogspot.com/2010/08/chandrayaan-2-rover-prototype.html
AHMEDABAD: India has decided on its second journey to the moon—Chandrayaan-2—without Russian participation. The tentative date for lift-off is 2015 from the Sriharikota facility. This was announced by space scientist S V S Murty of the Ahmedabad-based Physical Research Laboratory's (PRL) planetary exploration group during a conference on Monday.
The original mission envisaged the nearly Rs 425-crore Chandrayaan-2 having an indigenous rocket and a rover with a Russian lander. But Murty said, "The Russian lander is being replaced by an indigenous lunar lander." The decision comes after the failure of a Russian space mission, Phobos-Grunt in January 2012, which was supposed to test the lander.
Murthy said that the replacement of the Russian lander with an indigenous one would call for a change in the mission profile as well. The lander is being designed and developed by the Space Applications Centre (SAC) in Ahmedabad. Its preliminary configuration study has been completed.
The orbiter will have five payloads, while the six-wheeled rover has two. The orbiter will operate from an altitude of 200 km above the moon's surface. "Chandrayaan-2 will carry out an intensive investigation of a localized area of the moon having high scientific value," he said.
The rocket will be the three-stage Geo Synchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle powered by an indigenous cryogenic engine. All the payloads of Chandrayaan-2 are indigenous in contrast to Chandrayaan-1 which had six foreign payloads and five from India.
Designing and building the lander and the rover will surely take time, admits Goswami. Moreover, ISRO has yet to certify the rocket to be used in this mission, which is expected to make its first test flight next month after two successive failures in 2010. The vehicle must make at least two successful flights before it can be trusted for launching Chandrayaan-2, says Goswami.
AHMEDABAD: India's second lunar mission will be undertaken with Russian participation though it has got delayed, a top official of an ISRO lab said today amidst reports that 'Chandrayaan 2' will be a solo mission.So it looks like there's some indecision at ISRO with regards to this.
Chandrayaan 2, an Indo-Russian joint project, is going ahead but it has got delayed, Physical Research Laboratory (PRL) Director J N Goswami said here.
Ahmedabad-based PRL is part of Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).
"The Indo-Russian mission is going ahead. The project has got delayed. Currently, we are whole-heartedly working for the Mars project scheduled for November. The moon mission, for the time being, has got delayed," Goswami told PTI.
Roskomos, Russia's space agency, and ISRO had signed an agreement on November 12, 2007. Under the pact, Roskomos had assumed the vital responsibility of providing both the orbiter and the rover, while its Indian counterpart was to design and build the lander for the ambitious mission.
"The failure of Roskosmos Phobos-Grunt mission (in December 2011) has, for the time-being, delayed the moon mission," he said, adding the construction of lander for the combined mission has been delayed.
Chandrayaan 2 will have five primary payloads on the orbiter, two of which will be improvements on instruments that were onboard Chandrayaan 1, launched in October, 2008.
Also, the rover will carry two additional instruments. Chandrayaan 2, originally scheduled in 2015, will be launched by a GSLV-powered by an indigenous cryogenic engine.
Reports had appeared in a section of media quoting a scientist of PRL S V S Murty as saying India will go it alone in the Chandrayaan 2 mission. Despite repeated efforts, he was not available for comments on the issue.
PRL is involved in designing indigenous payloads for Chandrayaan 2.
Okay, try this one instead:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-to-go-solo-on-second-lunar-mission/articleshow/18124826.cms
Here's also another link from Nature.com:
http://blogs.nature.com/news/2013/01/india-may-go-to-the-moon-alone.htmlQuoteDesigning and building the lander and the rover will surely take time, admits Goswami. Moreover, ISRO has yet to certify the rocket to be used in this mission, which is expected to make its first test flight next month after two successive failures in 2010. The vehicle must make at least two successful flights before it can be trusted for launching Chandrayaan-2, says Goswami.
Hey Antriksh, any way you can get a pic of the ISRO lander design? I'd really love to know what it looks like.
Hey Antriksh, any way you can get a pic of the ISRO lander design? I'd really love to know what it looks like.
Hey Antriksh, any way you can get a pic of the ISRO lander design? I'd really love to know what it looks like.
Probably a little too early for that. But try to imagine something with legs...
Not airbags then?
Hey Antriksh, any way you can get a pic of the ISRO lander design? I'd really love to know what it looks like.
Probably a little too early for that. But try to imagine something with legs...
Not airbags then?
Not airbags then?
Would you want to use airbags in such low gravity?
Hey Antriksh, any way you can get a pic of the ISRO lander design? I'd really love to know what it looks like.
Probably a little too early for that. But try to imagine something with legs...
Not airbags then?
For Indian lander, it would be a powered decent using one of the following strategies that are under study
Soft landing on Moon
1) by initiating the powered braking from the lunar parking orbit itself and directly landing.
2) by initiating powered braking from an intermediate orbit and directly landing.
3) by splitting the powered braking into two phases:
(a) powered horizontal braking phase that ends at a low altitude with a small vertical velocity and a zero horizontal velocity (b) a vertical descent phase ensuring the required touchdown velocity.
Is it possible to soft land direct on the moon ( without entering any lunar orbit) ?
Hey Antriksh, any way you can get a pic of the ISRO lander design? I'd really love to know what it looks like.
Probably a little too early for that. But try to imagine something with legs...
Not airbags then?
For Indian lander, it would be a powered decent using one of the following strategies that are under study
Soft landing on Moon
1) by initiating the powered braking from the lunar parking orbit itself and directly landing.
2) by initiating powered braking from an intermediate orbit and directly landing.
3) by splitting the powered braking into two phases:
(a) powered horizontal braking phase that ends at a low altitude with a small vertical velocity and a zero horizontal velocity (b) a vertical descent phase ensuring the required touchdown velocity.
Is it possible to soft land direct on the moon ( without entering any lunar orbit) ?
Not airbags then?
Would you want to use airbags in such low gravity?
^ Then, why is "direct descent" not an option, under consideration for the Indian Mission?
I don't think the Russian lander was ever supposed to be launched on an Indian rocket.
I may be totally off-base here, but I have received the impression from Mr Zaks' site and some presentations made by Russian sources recently that the Indian rover is no longer part of Luna-Resurs at all.
- The project "Luna-Resurs" was planned to implement jointly with India. Has anything changed recently?
- We sent several requests to the Indian side that we have to change the concept of the lunar program, but the response from them has not yet been received. When they have some kind of response to our proposals, then our cooperation will continue.
I'm confused, if the rover design was finalized, wouldn't it mean that prototyping has already been done?
Bleh, I think antriksh meant that the rover design is still being worked out.
The proposed Chandrayaan-2 mission has gone through all sorts of changes and twists and turns since it was first conceived. Originally, it was going to be landed on a Russian lander, but now it looks like ISRO will have to make the lander too. Oh well, should be a good learning exercise.
I really wonder why all rovers have 6 wheels, though. It's always seemed like overkill to me, since they never get pushed to their limits. I feel like it should always just be 4 wheels, but with extra motors for redundancy.
Bleh, I think antriksh meant that the rover design is still being worked out.
The proposed Chandrayaan-2 mission has gone through all sorts of changes and twists and turns since it was first conceived. Originally, it was going to be landed on a Russian lander, but now it looks like ISRO will have to make the lander too. Oh well, should be a good learning exercise.
I really wonder why all rovers have 6 wheels, though. It's always seemed like overkill to me, since they never get pushed to their limits. I feel like it should always just be 4 wheels, but with extra motors for redundancy.
ISRO had chosen two wheel rover, but now they have included 2 extra wheels. Initial rover design
ISRO had chosen two wheel rover, but now they have included 2 extra wheels. Initial rover design
Two wheels!? Haha seems a little less than what sanman was suggesting haha:). Is there a picture for the two wheel rover?
sorry I meant two pairs of wheels ;D
Note that in the rover slide post by antriksh the mention of the LIBS (Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscope). So basically that's supposed to be an Indian-made version of the LIBS system used on Curiosity.
Back when Chandrayaan-2 mission was first being proposed, I went and spammed email boxes and web forums with posts about the Curiosity ChemCam, including some Youtube vids posted here on NSF. Clearly the same advantages provided by this instrumentation on a Mars rover would also benefit a lunar rover. If anything, the even stronger lunar vacuum would further reduce laser attenuation and improve range as compared to Mars.
I like to think maybe somebody somewhere read what I had to say. ;D
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/india-to-go-alone-with-chandrayaan-2/article5022717.ece
Personally, I feel that with the inevitable delays, it would be better for India to instead use GSLV-Mk3 for the next mission to the Moon. This will increase the payload envelope, and allow for a more substantive payload to be sent, with appropriately increased mission scope.
Let the Mars Orbiter Mission be the last PSLV to send a payload beyond Earth orbit for ISRO. All further missions beyond the Earth should at least use GSLV-Mk3, or whatever more powerful successors show up.
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/india-to-go-alone-with-chandrayaan-2/article5022717.ece
Personally, I feel that with the inevitable delays, it would be better for India to instead use GSLV-Mk3 for the next mission to the Moon. This will increase the payload envelope, and allow for a more substantive payload to be sent, with appropriately increased mission scope.
Let the Mars Orbiter Mission be the last PSLV to send a payload beyond Earth orbit for ISRO. All further missions beyond the Earth should at least use GSLV-Mk3, or whatever more powerful successors show up.
I dont think its a good idea to start using GSLV-3 for such ambitious missions right off the bat, the true nature of a rocket isn't revealed until it has had a couple of launches. The GSLV's first couple of launches were successful but after that it's performance went down the drain. If the test flight of GSLV-2 is successful on monday it would make it the ideal choice to ferry a follow on mars mission.
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/india-to-go-alone-with-chandrayaan-2/article5022717.ece
Personally, I feel that with the inevitable delays, it would be better for India to instead use GSLV-Mk3 for the next mission to the Moon. This will increase the payload envelope, and allow for a more substantive payload to be sent, with appropriately increased mission scope.
Let the Mars Orbiter Mission be the last PSLV to send a payload beyond Earth orbit for ISRO. All further missions beyond the Earth should at least use GSLV-Mk3, or whatever more powerful successors show up.
I dont think its a good idea to start using GSLV-3 for such ambitious missions right off the bat, the true nature of a rocket isn't revealed until it has had a couple of launches. The GSLV's first couple of launches were successful but after that it's performance went down the drain. If the test flight of GSLV-2 is successful on monday it would make it the ideal choice to ferry a follow on mars mission.
Well, my point is that by the time the rest of Chandrayaan-2 hardware is developed and ready, the GSLV-Mk3 would have already had adequate number of flights by then.
IMHO, the development of a lander will be no small trivial task, and that will delay a Chandrayaan-2 mission significantly, during which time GSLV-Mk3 would be proving itself on other flights.
Looks like Chandrayaan-2 is falling short of funds:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/isro-awaiting-government-nod-for-more-funds-for-chandrayaan-2/articleshow/24946130.cms
Guess a lot will depend on how Mars mission fares in coming time.
Looks like Chandrayaan-2 is falling short of funds:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/isro-awaiting-government-nod-for-more-funds-for-chandrayaan-2/articleshow/24946130.cms
Guess a lot will depend on how Mars mission fares in coming time.
I thought maybe that the second ISRO Mars mission had taken precedence over this?
This is the first I'm hearing of a second ISRO Mars mission. It's not there on the Indian launch schedule sticky thread - which goes so far as to manifest a manned spaceflight for sometime after 2020 - so I don't think ISRO's ever mentioned it.There seems to be a followup mission on the cards (2018!!). Here (towards the end):
The Chandrayaan-2 mission seems to be languishing due to the non-availability of the Russian lander:Non-availability? I really doubt that. I suspect it got more to do with:
http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/1868557/report-india-s-second-moon-mission-chandrayaan-2-stuck-in-limbo (http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/1868557/report-india-s-second-moon-mission-chandrayaan-2-stuck-in-limbo)
This is the first I'm hearing of a second ISRO Mars mission. It's not there on the Indian launch schedule sticky thread - which goes so far as to manifest a manned spaceflight for sometime after 2020 - so I don't think ISRO's ever mentioned it.There seems to be a followup mission on the cards (2018!!). Here (towards the end):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60JKhlqy5Bg
"In the meanwhile, we found that it was feasible to develop a lander indigenously too, within three years, so Chandrayaan-2 is possible by 2016. The rover is already developed, the lander can be readied in time. All we need is the green signal from the government and at least two successful GSLV flights,'' the chairman said. “It was not planned as a completely indigenous mission, but it may turn out that way. Chandrayaan-2 will therefore be much more ambitious than its original aim.''
An update about Chandrayaan-2:Quote"In the meanwhile, we found that it was feasible to develop a lander indigenously too, within three years, so Chandrayaan-2 is possible by 2016. The rover is already developed, the lander can be readied in time. All we need is the green signal from the government and at least two successful GSLV flights,'' the chairman said. “It was not planned as a completely indigenous mission, but it may turn out that way. Chandrayaan-2 will therefore be much more ambitious than its original aim.''
http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?programId=1073754900&contentId=15507698
An update about Chandrayaan-2:Quote"In the meanwhile, we found that it was feasible to develop a lander indigenously too, within three years, so Chandrayaan-2 is possible by 2016. The rover is already developed, the lander can be readied in time. All we need is the green signal from the government and at least two successful GSLV flights,'' the chairman said. “It was not planned as a completely indigenous mission, but it may turn out that way. Chandrayaan-2 will therefore be much more ambitious than its original aim.''
http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?programId=1073754900&contentId=15507698
An update about Chandrayaan-2:Quote"In the meanwhile, we found that it was feasible to develop a lander indigenously too, within three years, so Chandrayaan-2 is possible by 2016. The rover is already developed, the lander can be readied in time. All we need is the green signal from the government and at least two successful GSLV flights,'' the chairman said. “It was not planned as a completely indigenous mission, but it may turn out that way. Chandrayaan-2 will therefore be much more ambitious than its original aim.''
http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?programId=1073754900&contentId=15507698
I'm pretty certain the required funds would be provided in the next years budget.
An update about Chandrayaan-2:Quote"In the meanwhile, we found that it was feasible to develop a lander indigenously too, within three years, so Chandrayaan-2 is possible by 2016. The rover is already developed, the lander can be readied in time. All we need is the green signal from the government and at least two successful GSLV flights,'' the chairman said. “It was not planned as a completely indigenous mission, but it may turn out that way. Chandrayaan-2 will therefore be much more ambitious than its original aim.''
http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?programId=1073754900&contentId=15507698
I'm pretty certain the required funds would be provided in the next years budget.
If that's the case they should then be able to hit the 2016 target, providing the GSLV is proven by then?
The Indian Space Research Organization (Isro) is planning to launch India’s mission to the moon, Chandrayaan-2, by 2016, which would include an orbiter, lander and rover, an Isro spokesperson said on Friday.
“Chandrayaan-2 would be launched by a Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV) powered by an indigenously developed cryogenic engine,” said the Isro spokesperson.
The 3 year timeline was also in part to ensure that GSLV has a had a couple of successful launches behind it before it launches something this valuable. Again, it depends..ISRO needs to really deliver wrt the GSLV program. And also the lander design fabrication testing going well. The 2016 target indicates the shortest possible time for the launch of Chandrayaan-2 if everything goes as planned.
ISRO had given a project to IIT Kanpur to develop a rover to be launched with Chandrayaan-II, which the university's scientists completed in 2010, but the space agency was yet to pick it up and make part payment to the institute, according to its professor.
When asked about the possible reasons for ISRO not accepting the rover, Venkatesh [Prof at IIT Kanpur] said Chandrayaan-II was set to be launched in 2017, which could be why ISRO was not showing any haste in acquiring it.
According to him, IIT-K spent Rs 29 lakh on the project.
The 3 year timeline was also in part to ensure that GSLV has a had a couple of successful launches behind it before it launches something this valuable. Again, it depends..ISRO needs to really deliver wrt the GSLV program. And also the lander design fabrication testing going well. The 2016 target indicates the shortest possible time for the launch of Chandrayaan-2 if everything goes as planned.
From the latest pronouncements by ISRO, it seems more like the development of the lander is what's the main hurdle, rather than waiting for GSLV to be qualified.
Does anybody have any idea of what the Indian lander will be based on? Will it borrow from the Russian lander design, or will it be an all-original independent design? I'm assuming the former, since it's best to go with what works, but it's not clear how much Russian technology ISRO can get for this, or whether it's even seen as reliable following the Phobos-Grunt malfunction. What have the Chinese used?
This is strange and strangely funny!
http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/isro-yet-to-pick-up-rover-built-by-iit-k-114011400882_1.htmlQuoteISRO had given a project to IIT Kanpur to develop a rover to be launched with Chandrayaan-II, which the university's scientists completed in 2010, but the space agency was yet to pick it up and make part payment to the institute, according to its professor.QuoteWhen asked about the possible reasons for ISRO not accepting the rover, Venkatesh [Prof at IIT Kanpur] said Chandrayaan-II was set to be launched in 2017, which could be why ISRO was not showing any haste in acquiring it.QuoteAccording to him, IIT-K spent Rs 29 lakh on the project.
http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/isro-yet-to-pick-up-rover-built-by-iit-k-114011400882_1.html (http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/isro-yet-to-pick-up-rover-built-by-iit-k-114011400882_1.html)How odd. So just have an unused Mars Rover lying about the place then?
Traction control algorithm development and testing for Lunar Rover mobility system.
Funding: Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, ISRO, Trivandrum, Amount: 8 Lakhs (2009 - 2010)
Lunar Rover development for testing of vision based navigation and traction control algorithms.
Funding: IIT Kanpur, Amount : Rs 30 Lakhs (2009-2010)
Once the project is completed, we will test it on a prototype lunar rover at IIT-K and thereafter the technology will be forwarded to ISRO," added Venkatesh. The final testing and approval of all the components being developed by the IIT-K will be done by ISRO.
According to Potluri, of the six wheels of the rover, four can be driven and steered. The rest can only be driven.
"The six wheels will have 10 motors to manage the movement and steering of the lunar rover," he said, adding that the major challenge will be to bring a co-ordination between all the 10 motors.
The professor said his colleagues at the institute had realised that the project to build the rover, which would pick up samples from the Moon's surface and bring them back to Earth, would cost much more than Rs 7.5 lakh and had initially refused to take it up.So what happened? IIT-K achieve its international fame with other projects? They don't want Chandrayaan-2, anymore? :P
"However, the then IIT-K Director Sanjay Govind Dhande had insisted that the project would get the institute international fame and that IIT-K would pitch in with the money," he said.
Anyway, why are all those wires hanging off the front of the rover? Are things going to be that way for the final version?
The Chinese rover seems to have suffered a problem with that infamously pesky lunar dust ...
Anyway, why are all those wires hanging off the front of the rover? Are things going to be that way for the final version?
How would this rover survive the cold temperatures of the lunar night? Is it supposed to have RTGs like China's does?
The Chinese rover seems to have suffered a problem with that infamously pesky lunar dust, which seems fine enough to get into every nook and cranny to gum up moving parts. How can this threat be addressed?
Maybe only Arthur C Clarke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fall_of_Moondust) knows...
http://www.discovery.org.in/PDF_Files/du_20130703.pdf (http://www.discovery.org.in/PDF_Files/du_20130703.pdf)Thanks Antriksh.
Thus,
the Chandrayaan-2 Rover solar panel may be expected to see temperature of Teq = - 182.07374 degrees C during the long (20 days) lunar nights at the landing site. And the solar panel temperature saturates soon after ~ 17 hours of lunar nights entry.
The solar panel temperature during lunar night, in this case, can be shown as Teq = 84.85949 K = -188.14051 deg C
Anyway, why are all those wires hanging off the front of the rover? Are things going to be that way for the final version?
It's an engineering test bed! Cut them some slack for the aesthetics? :D
The Chinese rover seems to have suffered a problem with that infamously pesky lunar dust ...
Are you guessing, or d'you have a source that says the problem was because of the dust? AFAIK, they haven't told us what the issue was. I think the only information we have thus far is that the solar panels designed to fold back and prevent the rover from radiating away all its heat - isn't folding back. Check the Chang'E 3 thread.
Abrasive lunar dust is thought to be the cause of the rover's fatal breakdown.
Thus,
the Chandrayaan-2 Rover solar panel may be expected to see temperature of Teq = - 182.07374 degrees C
Can any one guess the Antenna Type? I have never seen T shaped antenna on any planetary rovers
QuoteThus,
the Chandrayaan-2 Rover solar panel may be expected to see temperature of Teq = - 182.07374 degrees C
really?!? to the fifth decimal???
Oh, and how are they going to tackle the ultra-low nighttime temperatures? Are they going to use RTGs as well?Does anyone have enough Plutonium at the moment? I guess they could try with some other nuclide though.
[/font]
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technology/2014/01/28/11/14/chinese-lunar-rover-cutely-broadcasts-own-death (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technology/2014/01/28/11/14/chinese-lunar-rover-cutely-broadcasts-own-death)
Oh, and how are they going to tackle the ultra-low nighttime temperatures? Are they going to use RTGs as well?
Can any one guess the Antenna Type? I have never seen T shaped antenna on any planetary rovers
Maybe they want to let the Rover receive and watch the new digital HD Doordarshan :P
Oh, and how are they going to tackle the ultra-low nighttime temperatures? Are they going to use RTGs as well?
Only If they can develop RTG on time, else they will use the old trusted active thermal management method of ISRO flex heater bank + rechargeable batteries + solar panels.
Only If they can develop RTG on time, else they will use the old trusted active thermal management method of ISRO flex heater bank + rechargeable batteries + solar panels.
What about some kind of phase change material, which could provide some "thermal mass" to buffer the temperature changes? Or would the amount of material required make it too heavy and mass-inefficient? You're only trying to heat the electronics to prevent them from being damaged, right? With nifty lightweight insulators like aerogel, maybe it could be done that way.
What about some kind of phase change material, which could provide some "thermal mass" to buffer the temperature changes? Or would the amount of material required make it too heavy and mass-inefficient?
You're only trying to heat the electronics to prevent them from being damaged, right? With nifty lightweight insulators like aerogel, maybe it could be done that way.
Running off a battery for 20 odd days is going to be a real challenge. So much so that I think lunar night operations demand a Radio-isotope heater unit. Doesn't have to be RTG, but something that provides the heat. You'd radiate the heat during day-time operations, and fold up the radiator for night time ops.
But that's a guess. Anyone know if any of the probes that've been to the moon endured a lunar night (or several), and used only batteries (+heaters)?
My guess is that ISRO will also move the rover inside the lander during lunar night for extra protection.
Oh, and how are they going to tackle the ultra-low nighttime temperatures? Are they going to use RTGs as well?
My guess is that ISRO will also move the rover inside the lander during lunar night for extra protection.
I thought of that when Yutu started having issues. But that has its own attendant problems. First, as sanman's been saying: dust. You drive the rover back, and you'll bring whole heaps of dust into the lander.
Secondly, any deployment mechanism that will essentially have to be reversible will cost mass. (Letting something down onto the lunar surface can use frangible nuts/ cut wires etc. / exploit lunar gravity - but bringing something back up will require a motor. Sure You can simply open up a ramp and let the rover drive down and up along it as depicted in the picture, but then a) you need a ramp and b) folding that on top of the rover (presumably) to offer thermal protection would need a motor. If you didn't plan on getting the rover back into its place, then you could've simply had "drop down" MLI on top of the rover, which covers the vacant space once the rover leaves.
Thirdly, from a science perspective - you're going to limit the rover's range and traverses if it has to get back to the lander each time. This may be the case anyway if we have only a rover and lander (rover needs to stay within communication range)... but the diagram depicts an orbiter too. (Which would allow the rover a free rein).
But if they do decide to do this, then you can turn 1 & 3 into an advantage by getting the rover to sample dust and ejecta from different locations (assuming you put some sort of mini-lab on the lander that can do this analysis. Or shift the instrumentation from the rover to the lander; and make the rover more durable, and lighter.) As for 2 - maybe beef up one solar array structurally, and have it serve as the ramp. And cover it with Corning Gorilla Glass (TM) as a scratch-guard. That'll be a public outreach coup :D
Also, how effective will be the tiny rectangular/square microstrip patch antenna in communication with the orbiter?
EDIT: Time to look like an idiot. Spirit and Opportunity are insulated with aerogels. (http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/sc_rover_temp_aerogel.html) As was Sojourner (http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/tech/aerogel.html). So there's obviously something I'm not considering.
The Mars rovers used aerogel as the Martian atmosphere is thick enough so that multi layer insulation (MLI) is not effective. On the Moon, there is no atmosphere so using MLI is sufficient. There is no need to use aerogel on the Moon.
AJA, are you aware that you ended up describing MLI?
In its basic form, it does not appreciably insulate against other thermal losses such as heat conduction or convection.
Spacecraft also may use MLI as a first line of defense against dust impacts. This normally means spacing it a cm or so away from the surface it is insulating.
something with legs?
The project is likely to be completed by 2016-17.
Also, a few landing sites have been shortlisted based on the images obtained from earlier Moon missions. A special team is constructing the Lander.
Minister of state for PMO V Narayanaswamy recently announced in the Parliament that the mission, which is likely to take place in 2016-17, is progressing well with Isro having identified landing spots on the lunar surface. The two scientific payloads onboard the Chandrayaan-1 terrain mapping camera had captured a number of images of the lunar surface, which have been used for zeroing in on the designated spots.
Rocks from Sithampoondi, Kunnamalai are similar in properties to moon soil
As commands erupt into life, a 17-kg rover, akin to the rover of Chandrayaan-2, revs up. It turns right, then left, lurches forward and backs up.
We identified Sithampoondi, from where we excavated 60 tonnes of rocks which are geologically similar to the lunar composition. We made a special effort to pulverise the rocks to various sizes ranging from 30 to 200 microns and mix them in various proportions to match the chemical and mechanical properties of the lunar soil to study the rover’s movements on it in a simulated environment.
Since the gravity on the moon is one-sixth of the earth’s gravity, a helium-filled balloon which will lift five-sixths of the rover’s weight is being used in the lunar terrain facility.
We have realised a six-wheeled rover and it is being tested in the lunar terrain facility. The design work on the lander is in progress in ISRO.
Weighing 20 kg, it will move about on the moon for one lunar day, that is, 14 earth days, Dr. Annadurai said. It would be loaded with commands for turning to the left and right, for going forward and backing down.
That article also says the landing is in 2017. Maybe someone should update the thread title.Done!
Thanks for the updates, antriksh. Will the orbiter be based on an ISRO satellite bus (I-2K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-2K)/I-3K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-3K)/I-4K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-4K)?) or PAM-G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tug#ISRO_PAM-G)?
Thanks for the updates, antriksh. Will the orbiter be based on an ISRO satellite bus (I-2K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-2K)/I-3K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-3K)/I-4K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-4K)?) or PAM-G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tug#ISRO_PAM-G)?
Orbiter will be from chandrayaan 1 with integration interface for the lander.
Updates are from ISRO annual report 2014.
Thanks for the updates, antriksh. Will the orbiter be based on an ISRO satellite bus (I-2K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-2K)/I-3K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-3K)/I-4K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-4K)?) or PAM-G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tug#ISRO_PAM-G)?
Orbiter will be from chandrayaan 1 with integration interface for the lander.
Updates are from ISRO annual report 2014.
Thanks. I think Chandryaan 1 was based on ISRO IRS (I-1K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-1K)) bus.
Thanks for the updates, antriksh. Will the orbiter be based on an ISRO satellite bus (I-2K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-2K)/I-3K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-3K)/I-4K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-4K)?) or PAM-G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_tug#ISRO_PAM-G)?
Orbiter will be from chandrayaan 1 with integration interface for the lander.
Updates are from ISRO annual report 2014.
Thanks. I think Chandryaan 1 was based on ISRO IRS (I-1K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-1K)) bus.
ISTR reading in multiple sources that the Chandrayaan 2 orbiter will use the I-3K bus.
7. When will Chandrayaan-2 be launched?
Chandrayaan-2 mission will be totally an Indian mission, configured with an Orbiter, Lander and Rover for in-situ investigation of the lunar surface. A six wheel Rover has been realised and initial tests have been conducted in the lunar terrain test facility. Besides, the development of Indian Lander involves many new technologies in the areas of navigation, control and guidance, sensors, soft landing and so on. Based on the present assessment of the progress, we may be in a position to launch it in 2016-2017 timeframe.
I'll add some uninformed speculation of my own.If that where the case, where did they get this part?
Perhaps they have confused RHUs and ASRGs/MMRTGs?
[...]Because the advanced RTG has moving parts, NASA is seeking a flight opportunity to qualify it prior to its use on long duration outer planetary missions. [...]That's the only reason I speculated about the ASRG, specifically. I don't see use of an RHU on a Mars orbiter. Besides, to my knowledge, there's nothing else nuclear that actually needs to be qualified.
BREAKING NEWS ;D
GSLV MK3 instead of MK2 will be used for chandrayaan 2 mission
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/india-plans-second-mars-mission-in-2018/509390-11.html
"We will be able to take the Mars-2 mission after launching the second mission to the moon (Chandrayaan-2) in 2016 with our own lander and rover, which will help us develop a separate lander and rover for the red planet," Kumar said
The space agency has developed the geo-synchronous satellite launch vehicle (GSLV-Mark I-III) with indigenous cryogenic engine to launch heavier satellites weighing more than two tonnes and three tonnes into the geo-orbit at 36,000 km above Earth.
"GSLV-Mark I-III will be used for Chandrayaan-2, which will have heavier payload than its predecessor (Chandrayaan-1) and later for Mars-2 mission, as both will have a lander and rover in addition to scientific experiments," he said.
The first development flight (GSLV Mk-III D1) with an operational cryogenic stage is planned between 2016 to 2017. The second development flight (GSLV Mk-III D2) is planned after one year of GSLV Mk-III D1 flight in 2017 to 2018.
Buoyed by the success, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) chairman K.S Radhakrishnan said the agency was forging ahead with plans to land an unnamed craft on the moon, along with a satellite to study the sun.
"The aim is three years from now, an Indian lander and Indian rover will land on the moon," he told AFP.
Preparations for the unmanned crew module are on track for a December launch:
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/all-set-to-put-unmanned-crew-module-into-orbit/article6631187.ece
Can anyone comment on why they aren't pushing the mission back a year rather than flying on the GSLV Mk II? I had thought that MOM was crammed onto a PSLV because the GSLV Mk III wasn't ready yet and planetary missions are considered too important to entrust to the (as I understand it) unreliable GSLV Mk II. Surely the same logic would preclude launching Chandrayaan 2 on a GSLV Mk II.
I understand that the GSLV Mk III is under development. I was asking why the mission isn't delayed until the Mk III is finished with development. The GSLV Mk II is just a Mk I with an indigenous CE-7.5 cryogenic engine rather than a Russian KVD-1 cryogenic engine for the third stage. The GSLV Mk I has a bad launch record, therefore most of the components of the Mk II have a bad launch record. Why is an important mission being placed on a launcher with questionable heritage? Is it that they believe all of the issues with the Mk II have been resolved?
Landing Stages
The Indian startup attempting to soft-land a craft on the Moon has just won funding from a host of bigwigs in the venture capital, technology and startup ecosystem, and accolades from some of India's leading space scientists.
The new investors in the venture include Subrata Mitra & Shekhar Kirani of Accel Partners (they have invested in their individual capacities), Sharad Sharma, former Yahoo India R&D head, Vivek Raghavan, chief product manager of UIDAI (the Aadhaar project), Pallaw Sharma, director of analytics at Microsoft based in Redmond, Bala Parthasarthy, serial entrepreneur and part of the AngelPrime angel investor group, Sunil Kalra, entrepreneur & investor, Paras Chopra and Pallav Nadhani, both founders of successful startups.
If Team Indus succeeds in its venture, it would be the first time India would be soft-landing a craft on the Moon. ISRO's Chandrayaan-1 orbited the Moon and then hard-landed, crashing itself on the Moon's surface. The Google Lunar XPrize, which carries $40 million in prize money, also requires that a rover will dismount from the landing craft and travel 500 metres on the lunar surface, and take high quality images. "The audacity of the plan was what attracted me to Team Indus. It's such a big and complex project," said Raghavan, who has been with the UIDAI project since its inception.
Going by the latest reviews of the project by top space scientists, Team Indus could well achieve its mission. V Adimurthy, a senior ISRO advisor and designer of the Mars orbiter mission, said about two years ago, when he first met Team Indus, there were many loose ends. "Three months ago there was another review, and what I saw made very good sense. It has become a very feasible project, and I think they can do it," he said.
K. Radhakrishnan, former chairman of the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), said on Saturday that work on Chandrayaan-II was in full progress and the nation can expect it to land an indigenously-built spacecraft with a rover on the surface of the Moon within three to five years.
"Isro is busy working on Chandrayan-2, which will be taken up in 2016-17," he said adding that Isro has been working for the people and will continue doing so.
THRISSUR: Chandrayaan 2, India's second satellite mission to moon, will be launched in 2017, said M C Dathan, director of Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC), Thiruvananthapuram.
Speaking after inaugurating the pavilion of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) at the Thrissur pooram exhibition the other day, Dathan said preparations are in full swing for the launch of Chandrayaan 2 at the various ISRO units including at the VSSC.
The launch will happen in the fifth sojourn of Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV) Mark II rocket.
As per the present plan, GSLV Mark II rocket will carry Chandrayaan 2 satellite in its proposed launch in 2017.
Rover payload
Laser induced Breakdown Spectroscope (LIBS) from Laboratory for Electro Optic Systems (LEOS), Bangalore.[15]
Alpha Particle Induced X-ray Spectroscope (APIXS) from PRL, Ahmedabad.
The ISRO’s Space Applications Centre (SAC) at Ahmedabad, which is designing the “eyes and ears” of Chandrayaan-2, has targeted to deliver all the payloads for the lunar mission by the end of 2015, official sources said. This includes three major payloads and a crucial set of sensors and communication equipment that will be fitted on to the orbiter, lander and the rover.
“The preliminary design review is over and the flight models are under fabrication. We will be delivering the payload by the end of this year or at the beginning of next year,” Misra added. SAC is developing three major payloads namely the Terrain Mapping Camera-2 (TMC-2), Imaging Infra-Red Spectrometer (IIRS) and L&S Band Synthetic Aperture Radar (L&S-band SAR). All these three payloads will be part of the orbiter that will encircle the moon.
The most challenging part of the Chandrayaan-2 mission will be the soft landing of the lander on the lunar surface. “SAC is developing all the sensors to provide the lander with real-time information for navigation need for a safe descent on the moon’s surface,” Misra remarked.
The sensors being developed are Orbiter High Resolution Camera (OHRC), Ka-band Altimeter, Lander Position Detection Camera (LPDC) and Lander Hazard Detection and Avoidance Cameras (LHDAC). While the OHRC onboard the orbiter will image the landing site and determine the exact descent point before the lander is ejected from the composite spacecraft, the other three sensors will guide the lander to the descent point.
SAC is also developing a HD video camera for both the lander and the rover. “The equipment on board the lander and the rover will have a mission life of just 14-15 days. The extreme temperatures on the moon will eventually destroy them,” Misra said adding that the equipment developed by SAC for the lander and the rover can withstand temperatures ranging between a freezing minus 30 degrees to a high of 70 degrees.
Apart from SAC, the Ahmedabad-based Physical Research Laboratory (PRL) will is also developing two payloads of Chandrayaan-2. This includes a X-Ray Solar monitor that will part of the orbiter and will observe the x-rays emitted from the Sun. PRL is also developing a rover payload called the Alpha Particle X-Ray Spectrometer that will determine the elemental composition (Mg, Al, Si, K, Ca, TiFe) of lunar soil and rocks around the lunar landing site.
The Orbiter Craft Module structure is a three-tonne category bus made out of a central composite cylinder, shear webs and deck panels
For the landing of Chandrayaan-2 mission, a throttle engine is being developed, he said.
India already has a second visit to the Moon planned for 2018 through Chandrayaan-2 that will include an orbiter, lander and a rover on the lunar surface. This Rs 500 crore mission is already being put together in Bengaluru and it will be launched using the GSLV Mk-II.
According to ISRO it would `further our understanding of origin and evolution of the Moon with improved versions of Chandrayaan-1 instruments for imaging, mineralogy and chemistry; addition of alpha and neutron spectromet ..
Beyond Chandrayaan-2 ISRO seeks to plan for `lunar sample return missions from the polar region of moon and a possible establishment of lunar observatory'.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/48131695.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
India already has a second visit to the Moon planned for 2018 through Chandrayaan-2 that will include an orbiter, Lander and a rover on the lunar surface. This Rs 500 crore mission is already being put together in Bengaluru and it will be launched using the GSLV-MkII.
Wait what, Chandrayaan II is going to be doing optical terrain relative navigation on landing as well ?
oWait what, Chandrayaan II is going to be doing optical terrain relative navigation on landing as well ?
Where did you hear that? I listened to the video again, but did not hear that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TzL1UTELgc
The design of the indigenous lander and the configuration study has been completed by the Space Applications Centre (SAC) and the integration work will be done in Bengaluru
Isro will design the orbiter, which will orbit the Moon at an altitude of 100 km. The mission will carry five instruments on the orbiter. Three of them are new, while two others are improved versions of those flown on Chandrayaan-1 orbiter.
The rover's mass will be about 30–100 kg and will operate on solar power. The rover will move on wheels on the lunar surface, pick up samples of soil or rocks, perform on-site chemical analysis and send the data to the orbiter above, which will relay it to the Earth station
India's second lunar mission, Chandrayaan-2, which is expected to be launched between 2017 and 2018, will have a rover which will operate on the moon's surface for 14 days. "It will function only for 14 days because its instruments are solar powered and the moon will have 14 days of sunlight," he said.
India’s second lunar probe Chandrayaan II will land on moon in 2017 and the country’s first solar mission Aditya L1 is likely to be launched in 2019, Lok Sabha was informed on Wednesday.
Chandrayaan II will land on the surface of moon in 2017 and this second lunar mission will help explore the possibilities of signs of extra-terrestrial life, Minister of State in Prime Minister’s Office Jitendra Singh said during Question Hour responding to supplementaries.
It wasn't entirely clear, but they could be RHU (radioisotope heater units) to keep the lander and rover warm during the cold Lunar night.RHU's can be modified to generate some electricity as well.
Quote
India’s second lunar probe Chandrayaan II will land on moon in 2017 and the country’s first solar mission Aditya L1 is likely to be launched in 2019, Lok Sabha was informed on Wednesday.
Chandrayaan II will land on the surface of moon in 2017 and this second lunar mission will help explore the possibilities of signs of extra-terrestrial life, Minister of State in Prime Minister’s Office Jitendra Singh said during Question Hour responding to supplementaries.
Signs of.....extra-terrestrial life??????....on the Moon?????? Did I miss something???????
Quote
India’s second lunar probe Chandrayaan II will land on moon in 2017 and the country’s first solar mission Aditya L1 is likely to be launched in 2019, Lok Sabha was informed on Wednesday.
Chandrayaan II will land on the surface of moon in 2017 and this second lunar mission will help explore the possibilities of signs of extra-terrestrial life, Minister of State in Prime Minister’s Office Jitendra Singh said during Question Hour responding to supplementaries.
Signs of.....extra-terrestrial life??????....on the Moon?????? Did I miss something???????
Cybertronians ;D
We plan to take Chandrayaan 3 and 4 in near future and we may use nuclear power in those missions. By that time we will be completely ready with the materials and other things
NEW DELHI: Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has decided to put off for time being its plans to use nuclear power to increase lifespan of India's second lunar mission Chandrayaan 2 as there has been delay in getting the required nuclear material from Russia.
The nuclear power is expected expected to increase the lifespan of the mission as life of Chandrayaan 1, launched in 2008, was cut short by two months due to technical problems. Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) has been also working to make the nuclear material for the mission.
"We had plans to give nuclear power to
Chandrayaan 2 but now we have decided to put it off for time being as we don't want further delay in launch which is scheduled for 2017-18," said ISRO satellite centre director M Annadurai.
The second lunar mission was l scheduled for launch in 2013 as joint operation between India and Russia. But after failure of Russia’s Phobos-Grunt, mission to probe Maritian moon, it decided to do an internal assessment of its programme.
India then decided to make Chandryaan 2 as a completely indigenous mission with all three components of the mission orbiter, lander and rover made in the country.
"Once we get the material we have to do necessary experiments which will further delay the mission. There has been some delay in getting material from Russia," he said.
QuoteISRO is now looking forward to use the nuclear powered mission in future projects.
"We plan to take Chandrayaan 3 and 4 in near future and we may use nuclear power in those missions. By that time we will be completely ready with the materials and other things," he added.Quote from:India plans to have a high altitude polar landing of Chandrayaan 2 and it will have a capability to soft land and carry in-situ chemical analysis of the lunar surface. A new throttled engine is being developed that will reduce the thrust for landing on the surface of the moon.
Chandrayaan-2 is the second Indian Lunar Mission which will be launched in near future. Chandrayaan-2 consist of an Orbiter, a Lander and a Rover. SPL, VSSC, has the following experiments onboard Chandryaan-2 orbiter and Lander.
•CHACE-2 (CHandra's Altitudinal Composition Explorer) onboard Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter
•ChaSTE (Chandra’s Surface Thermophysical Experiment) on Chandrayaan-2 Lander
•RAMBHA (Radio Anatomy of Moon Bound Hypersensitive ionosphere and Atmosphere) on Chandrayaan-2 Lander, which consisting Langmuir Probe (LP), Dual Frequency Radio Science(DFRS) experiment and radio sounder.
CHACE-2 (CHandra's Atmospheric Composition Explorer-2) on Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter
The CHACE-2 experiment aboard the Chandrayaan-2 orbiter will study the neutral composition of the Lunar exosphere from a circular polar orbit of ~100 km. The CHACE-2 instrument will be similar to MENCA. Apart from obtaining mass spectra of the tenuous Lunar exosphere, the instrument will have capability of tracking the distribution of a pre-selected set of species with higher temporal resolution.
ChaSTE (Chandra’s Surface Thermophysical Experiment)
ChaSTE is one of the scientific experiment on the Lander of the Chandrayaan-2 mission. ChaSTE is a thermal probe with the objective of making in-situ measurements of temperature profile on the lunar surface up to a depth of 100 mm near the polar region, and the measurements of thermal conductivity of lunar regolith. ChaSTE would be the first-ever in-situ thermal measurements on lunar surface near the polar region.
RAMBHA (Radio Anatomy of Moon Bound Hypersensitive ionosphere and Atmosphere)
The RAMBHA experiment onboard the forthcoming Chandrayaan-2 Lander mission is a unique payload package that would provide a comprehensive exploration of Lunar plasma environment. RAMBHA is conceived as a suite of three experiments, viz. (i) a Langmuir Probe and (iii) a dual frequency radio science (DFRS) experiment.
Chandrayaan-1 finds signatures of recent shallow moonquakes
<snip>
The moonquakes may also provide new insights about mechanism of earthquakes, Kumar said adding that ISRO's Moon rover in the Chandrayaan-II mission slated for 2017 should, therefore, carry a seismometer to study these activities in the Schrödinger basin.
we have described the development of the rover and a map generation system for 3D terrain using structured light
for a six wheel rover navigation problem. A structured light system enables the detection and estimation of
both positive and negative obstacles. The structured light system is capable of working even in high lux
environments to deliver highly accurate maps that can reach sub millimetre accuracies
As specified by ISRO, the design of the rover is based on the well proven space rover “Sojourner” that has been
deployed for the exploration of Mars since July, 1997. It has 6 wheels, all of which are driven by DC brushless
servo motors. The front and the rear wheels also have steering motors. The rover has two rocker arms connected
to the rover body through a differential. Each
Chandrayaan-2, India’s second mission to the Moon, consists of an Orbiter, Lander and Rover configuration. It is totally an indigenous mission, planned to be launched by GSLV-MkII during the first quarter of 2018. A major milestone of the spacecraft level Preliminary Design Review (PDR) has been completed in the month of May 2015.
Orbiter Craft: The primary structure has been realised and delivered to the integration team for the integration with other subsystems which will begin from Dec 2015. Some of the mainframe systems are realised and some are in the Test and Evaluation phase. The Payloads are being realised at various centres and few are in an advanced stage of development. The equipment panel layouts are in the final stage of release. Interfaces between Orbiter and GSLV-Mk II has been finalised.
Lander Craft: The Lander Craft configuration has been finalised for a safe and soft landing at the identified site. The mission critical elements of sensors and actuators for a safe and soft landing are being developed at various centres. The development/qualification models are expected to be delivered in the middle of 2016. The special tests to verify the integral performance of all sensors, actuators and software in a closed loop are planned in the middle of 2016. Accommodation study of all elements has been completed. The 800 N Liquid Engines have undergone High Altitude Test (HAT) for a duration of 513 sec successfully. A Standing Technical Review committee (STRC) met and is overseeing the overall progress of the new Advanced technologies present in the lander.
Rover: The Engineering model of six wheeled rover is being realised. Navigation Camera, Inclinometer, Rover imager and mechanism hardware are ready for integration. The other systems are in the final stages of fabrication. The illumination setup for the lunar terrain test facility has been commissioned.
The interfaces between GSLV-Mk II and Chandrayaan-2 have already been finalised, according to officials in the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).
A GSLV-Mk II vehicle will put Chandrayaan-2 with a lander and a rover into orbit in the first quarter of 2018. It will be a totally indigenous mission — the vehicle, the spacecraft, the lander and the rover are all made in India. The orbiter (that is, the spacecraft), the lander and rover together will weigh 3,280 kg. After the spacecraft is inserted into the lunar orbit, the lander with the rover inside it will separate and land softly on the moon’s surface.
The lander will have a throttleable engine for performing a soft landing and four sites have been short-listed for this. After it touches down on a flat surface on the moon, the 25-kg rover — which is a kind of a toy car — will emerge from it. It will have six wheels, made of aluminium, to move about on the lunar soil. The wheels will interact in such a way that the rover does not sink. The rover will move at a speed of two cm a second. Its lifetime on the moon is 14 earth days; it will have two payloads for analysing the soil’s chemical properties.
Let me guess:Yes.
The reason why the GSLV Mk.2 is being used to launch Chandrayaan 2 instead of the PSLV-XL is because the orbiter, lander and rover are heavier than Chandrayaan 1?
A GSLV-Mk II vehicle will put Chandrayaan-2 with a lander and a rover into orbit in the first quarter of 2018. It will be a totally indigenous mission — the vehicle, the spacecraft, the lander and the rover are all made in India.This is super encouraging. Had they gone with this approach from the get go, it likely would have been done by now.
As I expected, since GSLV MK-II's Cryogenic Upper Stage does NOT have multiple restartable capability, it will launch the Chandrayaan-2 into a parking orbit similar to GTO.
Here is the report from Frontline Magazine Science SectionQuoteG. Nagesh, Project Director, Chandrayaan-2, said the orbiter, the lander and the rover were together called the composite module. The GSLV-Mk II will first place this composite module in an orbit of 170 km by 19,500 km, called earth-parking orbit. From there, with the help of the liquid engines in the orbiter, we will take Chandrayaan-2 to the moon’s orbit of 100 km, he said. It is exactly the same as Chandrayaan-1's orbit. Once Chandrayaan-2 (that is, the composite module) is in the lunar orbit, ISRO will beam commands to it for the lander to fly out of the orbiter.
Source : Cryogenic gains for GSLV (http://www.frontline.in/science-and-technology/cryogenic-gains-for-gslv/article9153824.ece)
--- [ --- ]
Asked how a GSLV-Mk II vehicle could take the 3,280-kg Chandrayaan-2 into orbit when even future GSLV-Mk II rockets could carry only satellites weighing around 2,800 kg into orbit, Umamaheswaran replied that since Chandrayaan-2 would be first parked in its initial orbit of 180 km by 20,000 km, it would indeed be possible. It would be different from the GSLV-F05 mission, where the 2,211-kg INSAT-3DR had to be put into a geosynchronous transfer orbit of 170 km by 35,000 km.
Ready for Chandrayaan-2
The mission's success signalled two things. One, the GSLV-Mk II with an indigenous cryogenic upper stage is "more than qualified", as M. Annadurai, Director, ISRO Satellite Centre (ISAC), Bengaluru, described it, to put Chandrayaan-2 into orbit. The other, the GSLV-Mk II rocket has become a candidate in the launch market to put the two-tonne class of satellites into orbit. It is all set to complement ISRO's Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV), which, with its string of 35 consecutive successes, has consolidated itself as a robust, reliable vehicle for putting small satellites into orbit.
The real significance of the GSLV-F05 mission's success is that it has cleared the road for the Chandrayaan-2 mission and boosted the morale of the Chandrayaan-2 project team at ISAC, Bengaluru. Chandrayaan-2 will be a totally indigenous mission, with the launch vehicle (GSLV-Mk II), the spacecraft, the lander and the rover, all made by ISRO.
While the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC) will build the GSLV-Mk II that will put Chandrayaan-2 into orbit, teams in ISAC are busy building the orbiter, the lander and the rover.
Annadurai said: "Basically, Chandrayaan-2 calls for a GSLV. The latest [GSLV-F05] success indicates that the GSLV is also in the category of the PSLV, which has had a string of successes. It was the PSLV, its XL version, which put both Chandrayaan-1 and our spacecraft to Mars into orbit. Thus, the PSLV played a major role in the successes of both Chandrayaan-1 and our Mars spacecraft missions. Similarly, the GSLV-F05 mission's success gives us the confidence that a GSLV-Mk II vehicle will put Chandrayaan-2 into orbit. The GSLV-F05's triumph will galvanise us to realise the Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft, the lander and rover at the earliest so that we can aim for a lift-off by 2017-end from Sriharikota."
Teams are working in full swing at ISAC to realise the orbiter, lander and rover. The interfaces between the orbiter and the GSLV-Mk II have been finalised and the rover's engineering model is ready. The rover will have six wheels made of aluminium, a navigation camera and an inclinometer. The orbiter, the lander and the rover together weigh 3,280 kg; the rover weighs 25 kg and the lander 935 kg.
G. Nagesh, Project Director, Chandrayaan-2, said the orbiter, the lander and the rover were together called the composite module. The GSLV-Mk II will first place this composite module in an orbit of 170 km by 19,500 km, called earth-parking orbit. "From there, with the help of the liquid engines in the orbiter, we will take Chandrayaan-2 to the moon's orbit of 100 km," he said. It is exactly the same as Chandrayaan-1's orbit. Once Chandrayaan-2 (that is, the composite module) is in the lunar orbit, ISRO will beam commands to it for the lander to fly out of the orbiter. This will happen at an identified time, depending on the Sun-Moon-Earth gravity. The lander has a pyramidal structure.
"The lander will land at an identified site on the moon. Once the lander touches down, a ramp will deploy and the rover will come out, rolling down the ramp. Both the lander and the rover will perform experiments on the moon," said Nagesh.
Annadurai said that for the lander to make a soft landing on the lunar soil, matching the lunar gravity, it needs to have throttle-able engines. "This is a major technology. Over and above that, the lander should do in-place navigation and [be able to] find hazards. In case of hazards, it should go around and land [in a suitable] place. These two things are new to us," he said.
The rover will roll down a ramp from the lander on six aluminium wheels which should interact properly. "If they don't interact properly, there is a possibility that the rover will sink into the lunar soil," Annadurai said. The rover has batteries which are charged by solar panels. Each wheel will be driven by a motor. "This is what makes the rover move forward and backward. We use the principle of skid-steering to enable the rover to take turns, negotiate hazards, etc.," he said.
The rover will move at a speed of one to two cm a second. After it traverses a distance of say, five metres, the navigation cameras on board will take pictures of the lunar surface and the images will be sent to the ground. Annadurai said, "We will analyse the [best] path to follow and direct this command [to the rover] to move on that path." The rover will do all the operations during the lunar day. Its life is one lunar day, or 14 earth days. It has two payloads to analyse the chemical properties of the lunar soil.
The lander will perform three experiments: analyse seismic activity on the moon's surface; measure plasma and electron content on the lunar surface; and study temperatures below the moon's soil. The orbiter, from its perch in the lunar orbit, will do mineralogical mapping of the moon's soil.
Asked how a GSLV-Mk II vehicle could take the 3,280-kg Chandrayaan-2 into orbit when even future GSLV-Mk II rockets could carry only satellites weighing around 2,800 kg into orbit, Umamaheswaran replied that since Chandrayaan-2 would be first parked in its initial orbit of 180 km by 20,000 km, it would indeed be possible. It would be different from the GSLV-F05 mission, where the 2,211-kg INSAT-3DR had to be put into a geosynchronous transfer orbit of 170 km by 35,000 km.
In order to help Indian space scientists overcome the challenges of landing on Moon and Mars, researchers will fly a small aircraft breaching the ‘no fly zone’ rules over Bengaluru. What’s striking is that the aircraft will carry a special payload of country’s second lunar mission — Chandrayaan-II. The aircraft will drop the payload over a scooped out area in order to mimic lunar surface with large craters and check whether the scientists can successfully touch down the surface.
“This is the first time we are going to attempt to land on the Moon, so we want to be meticulous with our computation and technology,” said officials from ISRO. The lunar rover will monitor surface of Moon and it will rely on the Orbiter High Resolution Camera (OHRC) for accurate inputs. The rover weighs 20kg and harnesses the power from Sun.
Space scientists said the orbiter would circle the Moon at an altitude of 100 km with five instruments onboard. Three of these would be new, while two others would be improved versions of ones flown onboard Chandrayaan-I. The orbiter would help beam scientific data garnered by the rover from the Moon’s soil.
India is getting ready to deploy an indigenously developed rover on the lunar surface for on-site analysis of various samples and relay them to the earth station.
Senior ISRO scientist and Deputy Director of Satish Dhawan Space Centre V. Ranganathan told The Hindu on Saturday that they were in advance stages of deploying the rover. The timing of its launch is not yet finalised.
Chandrayaan-II Mission includes launching of lunar explorations by geosynchronous launch vehicles (GSLV Mk-II) with clinical precision. The wheeled rover would be useful in using multiple applications by collecting soil and rock sediments for on-site analysis and transmitting the findings to the earth station.
He added that various tests related to Chandrayan 2 mission is under progress and it is expected to take place by the end of next year, while another planetary mission Aditya to study Sun is expected in 2018.
For Chandrayan 2, tests on controls over the lander and rover while landing on moon are to be tested by the end of this year and the early next year. Many of the activities are supported by student groups.
ISRO starts landing tests for Chandrayaan-2 mission
Simulated lunar craters created in Chitradurga to plan Lander’s descent
The Indian Space Research Organsiation started a series of ground and aerial tests linked to the critical Moon landing of Chandrayaan-2 on Friday, at its new site at Challakere in Chitradurga district, 400 km from Bengaluru.
ISRO Satellite Centre or ISAC, the lead centre for the second Moon mission, has artificially created close to ten craters to simulate the lunar terrain and test the Lander’s sensors.
A small ISRO aircraft has been carrying equipment with sensors over these craters to plan the tasks ahead.
ISRO, along with a host of other scientific and strategic agencies, owns vast land for its future missions at Challakere, in a ‘Science City.’
ISAC Director M.Annadurai told The Hindu, “The campaign for the Lander tests of Chandrayaan-2 has started. Tests are conducted over the simulated craters at Chitradurga. We are using an aircraft to assess whether the sensors on the Lander will do their job [later] of identifying the landing spot on the Moon.”
Chandrayaan-2 is tentatively set for late 2017 or early 2018 and includes soft-landing on Moon and moving a rover on its surface.
‘Complicated task’
Landing on an alien surface is very complicated, said Dr. Annadurai, who was also the Project Director for the successful Chandrayaan-1 lunar mission of 2008.
In the coming months up to March, ISAC would conduct many tests: on avionics and electronics; testing the Lander’s legs, followed by a combined full test, at Bengaluru and Chitradurga.
The mission includes an Orbiter, a Lander and a Rover, all being readied at ISAC in Bengaluru. The Orbiter spacecraft when launched from Sriharikota will travel to the Moon and release the Lander, which will in turn deploy a tiny Rover to roam the lunar surface — all three sending data and pictures to Earth.
Has ISRO given a name for the rover? We already know that the orbiter will be "Chandrayaan 2".Not heard any. But considering the highly imaginative name they gave to the Mars mission, I hope it isn't 'Moon Rover'.
"The life expectancy of the lander and the orbiter as estimated now is one (Earth) day, which means 14 lunar days."
Let us hope the landing simulations are more accurate than the lunar calendar simulations.
Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) has started a series of ground tests for testing the performance of sensors and actuators for soft landing of the Lander on the lunar surface.
Special tests for new systems in Lander have been identified and a Lander Sensors Performance Test over artificial craters created in Chitradurga district in Karnataka, has been conducted. Lunar Terrain Test facility is ready for Lander drop test and Rover mobility tests.
ISRO is working towards the launch of Chandrayaan-2 during the first quarter of 2018. The Chandrayaan-2 comprises of indigenous Orbiter, Lander and Rover. After reaching the 100 km lunar orbit, the Lander housing the Rover will separate from the Orbiter. After a controlled descent, the Lander will soft land on the lunar surface at a specified site and deploy a Rover. The instruments on the rover will collect data for analysis of the lunar soil.
The static test of the lander module of Chandrayaan- 2 will be held at the ISRO Propulsion Complex, Mahendragiri, by the end of February.
Director, Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre (LPSC), S. Somanath, told The Hindu that the test would measure the performance of the propulsion system of the lander module.
Mr.Somanath said the soft landing involved in the Chandrayaan- 2 mission required special propulsion and control systems and complex electronics. The lander would have four engines to make a controlled descent from the orbiter.
For the static test, the craft would be mounted on a frame and the four engines fired at varying thrust.
A month later, another lander module, a replica of the first one, would be tested in a suspended state. The craft would be hung from a crane and the engines fired to move the module in different directions and simulate a soft landing.
Ok. We are getting closer..
Lunar lander ready to be tested (http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/ISRO-gearing-up-forsecond-moon-mission/article17313134.ece)QuoteThe static test of the lander module of Chandrayaan- 2 will be held at the ISRO Propulsion Complex, Mahendragiri, by the end of February.
Director, Liquid Propulsion Systems Centre (LPSC), S. Somanath, told The Hindu that the test would measure the performance of the propulsion system of the lander module.
Mr.Somanath said the soft landing involved in the Chandrayaan- 2 mission required special propulsion and control systems and complex electronics. The lander would have four engines to make a controlled descent from the orbiter.
For the static test, the craft would be mounted on a frame and the four engines fired at varying thrust.
A month later, another lander module, a replica of the first one, would be tested in a suspended state. The craft would be hung from a crane and the engines fired to move the module in different directions and simulate a soft landing.
I am concerned about the launcher GSLV MK-II. It has not yet attained higher capability yet. It needs to be launched 2 to 3 times more before it launches the Chandrayaan 2 which will have a lift off mass of 3250 Kg.
Launch mass :
Combined: 3,250 kg (7,170 lb)
Payload mass :
Orbiter: 1,400 kg (3,100 lb)
Rover: 20 kg (44 lb)
ISRO has to ramp up its Launcher Capability, otherwise the gain it made by launching Chandrayan 1 that discovered water in the Moon and sending Mangalyaan at the first attempt will lose its advantage. Because of the heavier launch capability Launcher China's moon mission has raced away faster than India's.
--- [ --- ]
Orbiter Craft
Primary structure of Orbiter Craft has been realised. Fabrication of panels is in progress. Configuration of mainframe systems and payloads was completed. Integration of mainframe systems including propulsion elements was expected to commence from December 2016. Payloads from various centres are in advanced stages of realisation and expected to be delivered in first quarter of 2017 for integration.
Lander Craft
Lander configuration is finalised to meet the soft and safe landing at the identified site. Payload configuration and interfaces with lander are finalised. Engineering models of mission critical
sensors, namely, Ka-Band Radio Altimeter (KaRA) and Lander Pattern Detection Camera (LPDC) from SAC and Laser Inertial Reference & Accelerometer Package (LIRAP) from IISU have been realised and performance tested in Lander Sensor Performance Test (LSPT), Phase-1 over artificial craters created, at Chitradurga in Karnataka. System Demonstration Module (SDM) realisation for evaluating the performance of Lander propulsion system with throttlable engines, Lander
Actuator Performance Test (LAPT) configuration and Lander electrical packages required for LAPT are in advanced stage of completion. Engineering model of Lander Leg was realised and single leg drop tests were completed. A facility has been established at Lunar Terrain Test Facility for conducting lander leg drop tests.
Rover
All the rover flight systems are in advanced stage of realisation. Soil mixing exercise is completed and the mobility test to evaluate the Rover’s wheel – soil interaction is under progress.
The Russian firm, Joint Stock Company Isotope, which is part of the Russian Federation National Nuclear Corporation (ROSATOM) has supplied Radionuclide Curium (Cm-244) alpha emitter to the Physical Research Laboratory, Ahmedabad. It will help analyse lunar surface and rocks, according to ROSATOM South Asia spokesperson, Alexander Antipin.
He said the alpha emitter, manufactured by Russian State Scientific Centre-Research Institute of Atomic Reactors (JSC SSC RIAR), will be installed on Alpha Proton X-Ray Spectrometer to help the ISRO’s lunar exploration mission.
Russia had supplied similar products to the US for the launching of three NASA expeditions -- Mars Pathfinder (1997), Opportunity (2004) and Curiosity (2012).
Ahmedabad: Work on some of the critical sensors of the Chandrayaan-2 mission is nearing completion at the Space Applications Centre (SAC) and the Physical Research Laboratory (PRL).
These include three major payloads — scientific probes, crucial sensors and communication equipment that will be present in the orbiter, Lander and the Rover of the Chandrayaan-2 mission.
The latest sensors will help Isro validate, confirm and even make more crucial in-depth discoveries of the moon's topography in continuation to Chandrayaan-1 discoveries. While Chandrayaan-1 found water on the moon, SAC has mounted a synthetic aperture radar (SAR) providing L and S band readings on the Chandrayaan-2 orbiter that will help calculate the amount of water on the moon.
"The SAR through differential readings can provide us an idea of the volume of water on moon surface," said SAC director Tapan Misra on the sidelines of the National Science Day celebrations at SAC. The orbiter will also carry three separate hyperspectral cameras that will map the terrain of the moon, including providing information on the mineralogy of the moon surface.
Besides the orbiter, SAC is providing the Rover with a high definition camera and a scientific probe, developed at Physical Research Laboratory (PRL) to conduct on-site mineral investigations of the moon soil and rocks.
SAC officials claim that a new innovation onboard the Chandrayaan-2 is special radar altimeter that will help the Lander to orient itself while it lands on the moon surface safely. The same altimeter will be used for a small test flight of the human space flight mission.
The hi-tech SAC payloads will now be sent to Ahmedabad to be installed on Chnadrayaan-2 mission to carry out tests.
The ISRO chief while delivering a speech at the seventh annual convocation of Vels University on Wednesday said that tests were underway for a controlled landing of the spacecraft on the surface of the moon.
"ISRO will develop an engine that will help in the controlled landing on the moon. The mission is currently planned for the first quarter of 2018," he said, adding that scientists had developed an artificial crater to simulate the surface of lunar conditions for the landing experiments.
He further revealed that a series of ground tests is also in progress at the ISRO facility in Mahendragiri, Tirunelveli district, and in Challakere, in Chitradurga district near Bengaluru. "The satellite is also getting ready," he added.
Chandrayaan 2, which consists of an Orbiter, Lander and Rover configuration, is an advanced version of the previous Chandrayaan-1 mission.
It is planned to be launched as a composite stack into the Earth Parking Orbit (EPO) of 170 X 18,500 km by GSLV-Mk II, as per the Indian Space Research Organisation.
Main site: 87.2 deg S, 68 deg E
Backup site: 88.5 deg S, 297 deg E
Is that Chandrayaan-2
http://aviationweek.com/awinspace/india-makes-progress-chandrayaan-2-payloads
Photo Credits: Aviationweek/ Isro
Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) will launch its Chandrayaan-2 mission, an advanced version of its previous 2018 mission with the objective of deeper lunar surface probe, and another mission by Team Indus, a group of space enthusiasts who want to unfurl the tricolour on the moon's surface as part of a global lunar competition.
While Team Indus is using the service of PSLV to take its 600-kg baby spacecraft to the lunar orbit, Isro will use its heavylift rocket GSLV Mk II for the mission. Dr K Sivan, director of Thiruvananthapuram-based Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, told TOI, "Unlike the 2008 Chandrayaan-1 mission when PSLV rocket was used for carrying the spacecraft, this time Isro is planning to take a heavier payload (combined launch mass: 3,250 kg) comprising orbiter, lander and rover to the moon. Therefore, GSLV Mk II is the preferred choice."
The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is gearing up to launch the Chandrayaan-2 Mission in March next year, director of the Satish Dhawan Space Centre, SHAR, P. Kunhi Krishnan told media persons on the sidelines of the Independence Day celebrations at Sriharikota, on Tuesday.
Indian Space Research Organisation’s second unmanned moon mission, Chandrayaan 2, will lift off in March 2018, a decade after Chandrayaan 1 was launched, Isro sources told Hindustan Times on Tuesday.
I remember it vividly. We got a snapshot every second or two, then the full video was uploaded back to Earth later.
Edit: Found the live broadcast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyg56VIKRNA
The launch of the next Moon mission could be just four months away. India plans to return to the Moon in a big way with the ambitious Chandrayaan-2, which includes an orbiter, lander, and a small rover. If it all succeeds, it will be India's first soft landing on another world, and only the second such landing since the end of the Apollo and Luna era. For India, landing success would be "a stepping stone for future exploration missions to other planets," according to Indian Space Research Organisation Satellite Centre (ISAC) director M. Annadurai.
Chandrayaan-2 is planned to launch in March from ISRO's Sriharikota launch center aboard a Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mark 2 (GSLV Mk 2) rocket, making it ISRO's first deep-space launch on its newer, heavier launch vehicle. The combined mass of the three component spacecraft is 3250 kilograms, dramatically larger than the approximately 1300-kilogram mass of both Chandrayaan-1 and Mars Orbiter Mission, both of which launched on smaller Polar Satellite Launch Vehicles (PSLVs).
The GSLV will place Chandrayaan-2 into an elliptical Earth parking orbit, enlarging it over days or weeks with periapsis burns to raise the orbit apogee. Eventually, the apogee will be high enough that a burn can send the spacecraft on to a lunar transfer trajectory. A lunar orbit insertion burn will place Chandrayaan-2 into an elliptical orbit and the spacecraft will begin braking at periapsis to reduce its orbit to a 100-kilometer circle.
Sivan said, "After the Cartosat mission, the subsequent launch will be of Gsat-6A that will be lifted off by a GSLV Mk II rocket". "The launch of navigation satellite IRNSS-1I, which will replace the first navigation satellite IRNSS-1A, whose three atomic clocks (meant to provide precise locational data) had stopped working last year, is planned in February or March," he said, adding, "Next in line will be the Chandrayaan-2 mission, scheduled for launch in March."
Scientists at the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) are set to conduct a breathtaking stunt at Mahendragiri hills in Tamil Nadu. A bungee jump is being planned for Chandrayaan-2 craft as part of soft landing tests using a 100-metre tall crane (as tall as a 10-storeyed building) specially built for the purpose.
Chandrayaan-2 is India’s most ambitious project as yet consisting of an orbiter, lander and a small rover. If it succeeds, it will be India’s first soft-landing on the Moon, and only the second such landing since the end of the Apollo and Luna missions.
He said the craft, weighing about half-a-tonne, will be lowered from 100 metres and ignited in a lower gravity condition like that of the Moon.
Chandrayaan-2 set for bungee jump test in Mahendragiri hills of Tamil Nadu (http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil-nadu/2018/jan/13/chandrayaan-2-set-for-bungee-jump-test-in-mahendragiri-hills-of-tamil-nadu-1752404.html)QuoteScientists at the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) are set to conduct a breathtaking stunt at Mahendragiri hills in Tamil Nadu. A bungee jump is being planned for Chandrayaan-2 craft as part of soft landing tests using a 100-metre tall crane (as tall as a 10-storeyed building) specially built for the purpose.
Further, are the launch window constraints more relaxed, as this is not a direct trans-lunar injection?
Among the innovations and value additions being developed is the augmentation of the GSLV Mark II launch vehicle. Dr. Sivan said its lifting capability would soon be enhanced from 2.2 tonnes to 3.3 tonnes. The capability then would go up by 1.5 times and would reflect in its per-kilo cost, which could make it quite competitive to future commercial users in the launchers market.
The first launch of the enhanced GSLV, after necessary tests and confirmations, will be the 3.2-tonne Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft, scheduled to be launched in April.
Where is the 1,100 kg or 50% payload increase (from 2.2 to 3.3 t) for GSLV Mk.II coming from?
Does this version have a new name designation or is it just a plain GSLV Mk.II?
The last one about S-200 is perhaps unlikely as it would be a major change that will have an impact on the flight characteristics of the vehicle. Moreover, S-200 has a greater diameter than S-139 (3.2m vs 2.8m). What we have heard so far from ISRO sources are inert mass reduction, increased propellant load and increased thrust in CUS, and the thrust upgrade for Vikas engines.Where is the 1,100 kg or 50% payload increase (from 2.2 to 3.3 t) for GSLV Mk.II coming from?
Most likely from these upgrades:
- New high thrust vikas engine
- New C-15 cryogenic stage with increased thrust (95kn vs 75kn from old engine)
- Overall dry mass reduction
- Possible replacement of S139 with S200 to increase core burn time from 100 seconds to 130 seconds
It will have the same name. It is just a natural evolution of the GSLV MK-2 not a complete new rocket.
Most likely from these upgrades:
- New high thrust vikas engine
- New C-15 cryogenic stage with increased thrust (95kn vs 75kn from old engine)
- Overall dry mass reduction
- Possible replacement of S139 with S200 to increase core burn time from 100 seconds to 130 seconds
The last one about S-200 is perhaps unlikely as it would be a major change that will have an impact on the flight characteristics of the vehicle. Moreover, S-200 has a greater diameter than S-139 (3.2m vs 2.8m). What we have heard so far from ISRO sources are inert mass reduction, increased propellant load and increased thrust in CUS, and the thrust upgrade for Vikas engines.
As a part of the three-year short-term action plan, immediate missions that we plan to do this year are the GSLV-F08 that will launch the GSAT-6A communication satellite [around February]. Then we will have a PSLV mission with navigation satellite IRNSS-1I. Then comes the second developmental flight D2 of GSLV-MkIII. It will launch the high throughput satellite GSAT-29. Later, GSAT-11, which will be our heaviest satellite as of now, will be launched from Kourou. The Chandrayaan-2 mission will be launched this year on another GSLV.
Unlike the first lunar mission when a PSLV rocket carried the spacecraft to the moon's orbit, this time heavy-payload lifter GSLV Mk II will launch the spacecraft weighing 3,290kg as the module will carry an orbiter, a rover and a lander to the moon.
Dr Sivan said, "After reaching the moon's orbit, the lander will get detached from the orbiter and do a soft-landing near the south pole of the moon. The 6-wheeled rover fixed within the lander will get detached and move on the lunar surface. The rover has been designed in such a way that it will have power to spend a lunar day or 14 Earth days on the moon's surface and walk up to 150-200 metres. It will do several experiments and on-site chemical analysis of the surface."
The Isro chairman said, "The rover will then send data and images of the lunar surface back to the Earth through the orbiter within 15 minutes.
After spending 14 earth days, the rover will go in a sleep mode. We are hoping the rover will again come alive whenever that part of the moon (where the rover will land) gets sunlight and recharges the rover's solar cells. Besides the rover, the orbiter will also capture images of the moon while orbiting it."
On testing of lunar components, Dr Sivan said, "All three components of the lunar module are almost ready. Currently, their integration is going on. Once the module is ready, it will have to go through rigorous tests." On fixing launch date, he said, "The launch date will depend on various factors like the moon's relative position with respect to the Earth.
Once the GSLV is launched, it will put the spacecraft in the 170 km x 20,000 km elliptical orbit. From the elliptical orbit, the craft will be manoeuvred towards the lunar orbit by firing thrusters. Therefore, we expect it to reach the lunar orbit in two months."
In the run-up to the most challenging space exploration programme undertaken ever by India, ISRO chairman K Sivan told Express that integration of all the three components of the spacecraft is nearing completion at ISRO Satellite Centre in Bengaluru. “The next 45-60 days will be crucial as the composite pack, comprising Orbiter, Lander and Rover will go through a series of rigorous tests in disassembled and assembled mode. The outcome of these test results will determine the launch date. If we succeed to achieve the desired results in the first attempt, then the launch would take place in April, but in case any technical problems are encountered, there would be a delay. Since this is the first such attempt being made, there is always an uncertainty,” he said.Source (http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil-nadu/2018/feb/18/reaching-for-the-moon-desi-style-isro-is-set-to-script-new-chapter-with-chandrayaan-2-mission-1775023.html)
The chairman said the launch window is fixed between April and October, within which the space agency hopes to accomplish the mission. “The launch date depends on multiple factors like the moon’s relative position with respect to Earth. After the lift-off from Sriharikota, it would take approximately two months to reach the designated moon’s orbit. Another important factor is that when the Lander makes the touchdown on the pre-determined site near south pole of lunar surface, there should be sunlight. In a month, moon sees sunlight for only 14 days,” Sivan said.
With the much-awaited Chandrayaan-2 mission, India's second flight to the moon, Isro is attempting to pull off a daredevil manoeuvre. It will be the first-ever mission to soft land near the moon's south pole, which poses a number of challenges.
"We have identified two locations and will be choosing one. No other moon mission has landed in this area," said former Isro chief AS Kiran Kumar on Saturday, who retired as Isro chairman last month.
In preparation for this touchdown, landing simulations are currently on at Isro's Liquid Propulsion System Centre at Mahendra Giri in Tamil Nadu. The exercise involves a prototype of the lander simulating a soft landing from a height of 70-80 metres.
ISRO chief speaking on Chandrayaan-II launch window.Further, are the launch window constraints more relaxed, as this is not a direct trans-lunar injection?
Presumably, as it takes a certain of amount of time to reach the Moon, regardless of route chosen and that ISRO would like to land early in the Lunar day, this would mean the window would open for a few days each month.
Therefore, just in case something needs an upgrade and we miss this clear visibility window in April, our next chance will be in October. But the activities are in full steam targeting April,” he said.
The trajectory can be flown any month but the combination of trajectory and illumination is more restrictive and repeats at 6 month intervals.
India’s second mission to the moon, Chandrayaan-2, is likely to be launched only in October. Further delays cannot be ruled out if systems are not yet in place by then.
An Isro official told TOIseveral tests have to be done and arrangements need to be made.
The original plan envisaged the launch between April and November with the real target focussed for April. Top Isro officials had expressed confidence that the takeoff will happen in April.
But on Friday, it was stated the lunar mission was not yet ready for an April lift-off and much still needs to be done.
Chandrayaan-II likely delayed to OctoberQuoteIndia’s second mission to the moon, Chandrayaan-2, is likely to be launched only in October. Further delays cannot be ruled out if systems are not yet in place by then.QuoteAn Isro official told TOIseveral tests have to be done and arrangements need to be made.QuoteThe original plan envisaged the launch between April and November with the real target focussed for April. Top Isro officials had expressed confidence that the takeoff will happen in April.QuoteBut on Friday, it was stated the lunar mission was not yet ready for an April lift-off and much still needs to be done.
Source (https://m.timesofindia.com/home/science/chandrayaan-2-launch-delayed-likely-to-take-off-only-after-oct/articleshow/63141718.cms)
Can anyone tell me if the uprated cryogenic engine of GSLV MK-II is re-startable ? Any cryogenic engine propelled upper stage that is NOT RE-STARTABLE is simply of no vital use. This may sound harsh to many of us, but that is the reality. GSLV MK-II's cryogenic engine will not be able to do TLI maneuver. Can it do this ? Chandrayan-II has to reach the moon through the spacecraft's gradual orbit raising, thus taking it almost two months to get to the moon. ISRO seems to have its task cut out.
The launch of India's second lunar mission 'Chandrayaan-2', slated for next month, has been postponed to October as the experts have suggested some tests, the ISRO said today.
Dr Sivan said, “The original targeted date for the launch was kept on April 23. However, as the ongoing tests for the lunar mission will take 20 more days, the April 23rd date could not be met. Therefore the panel decided to defer the launch. Unlike, other satellite launches where Isro could easily defer the launch by a day or two to get a perfect mission, Isro can’t do the same in this mission. This is because the ideal date for the moon launch comes only once in a month. If we skip that date of the month, we have to plan the launch next month. After April, if Isro launches the mission from May to September, we won’t be able to utilise the full lunar day (14 Earth days) for experiments on the moon because of eclipses. Therefore, Isro will launch the mission in the first week of October.”
“All these new things are being done keeping lunar mission in the mind and ISRO’s bigger game plan to increase GSLV payload capability. For Chandrayaan-2, we are formulating a perfect combination. The four strap-ons and second stage will be boosted with high-thrust Vikas engines; cryogenic upper stage will be loaded with enhanced propellants of 15 tonnes instead of current 12.8 tonnes and will be operated with 9.5 tonne thrust compared to the present 7.5.”
Planned vehicle upgrades for GSLV for the Chandrayaan-II missionQuote“All these new things are being done keeping lunar mission in the mind and ISRO’s bigger game plan to increase GSLV payload capability. For Chandrayaan-2, we are formulating a perfect combination. The four strap-ons and second stage will be boosted with high-thrust Vikas engines; cryogenic upper stage will be loaded with enhanced propellants of 15 tonnes instead of current 12.8 tonnes and will be operated with 9.5 tonne thrust compared to the present 7.5.”
Source (http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil-nadu/2018/mar/28/with-eye-on-lunar-mission-isro-to-test-high-thrust-vikas-engine-1793608.html)
^
That can't be right, at least it shouldn't be! ISRO has repeatedly stated that October would be an ideal month to launch Chandrayaan-2, because of the earth-moon distance at the time. Must be a major oversight by NDTV-one is hoping anyway!
[
According to this this Economic Times (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/2018-end-to-be-busy-for-isro-with-several-rocket-launches/articleshow/65011210.cms) report also, the launch of Chandrayaan - 2 is not on cards this year. This makes me believe that Chandrayaan - 2 will NOT be launched until the launch of GSAT-7A by GSLV-II. I think, ISRO does NOT want to take risk without testing the capability of high thrust Vikas engine.
Dr M Annadurai, Director of U R Rao Satellite Centre confirmed to NDTV that the launch date for Chandryaan-2 "is slipping to 2019" from the initially planned launch in October this year.
Dr Annadurai said that India's moon mission now aims to land in February and the rocket launch will take place in January next year.
Moreover, since the weight of the Chandrayaan-2 satellite has increased, Dr Annadurai said that now instead of GSLV MK-II, GSLV MK-III will be used
Chandrayaan 2 Delayed, Israel Could Beat India In Race To Moon's SurfaceQuoteDr M Annadurai, Director of U R Rao Satellite Centre confirmed to NDTV that the launch date for Chandryaan-2 "is slipping to 2019" from the initially planned launch in October this year.
Dr Annadurai said that India's moon mission now aims to land in February and the rocket launch will take place in January next year.
A little disappointing, of course, but January 2019 isn't bad. For something as complex as a moon mission, better not to take chances. But the news of GSLV Mark 3 being used for the launch, is startling. That was never spoken of before by ISRO, now it's pretty concrete! All this time, only GSLV Mark 2 was spoken of.
Dont want to indulge in a political debate but i find news articles of Mr Bagla to be quite irritating in nature as it's more on nationalism and jingoism rather than on science....3rd country to do this,4th country to do that,gslv the bahubali rocket etc etc....
^
Agree. There's a little too much of that nationalism and jingoism in Bagla's reports- and he's supposed to be a science writer! It's okay to mention it, but it shouldn't be the centrepiece or the dominant theme. I don't like Frontline magazine( way too left politically!) but they have excellent science and technology articles by T.S Subramanian and R. Ramachandran, particularly in the area of aerospace. The first, second, 5th, 6th et al are certainly brought up, as they should be, but the accent is on the actual science and technology, and the challenges therein.
Chandrayaan 2 Delayed, Israel Could Beat India In Race To Moon's SurfaceQuoteDr M Annadurai, Director of U R Rao Satellite Centre confirmed to NDTV that the launch date for Chandryaan-2 "is slipping to 2019" from the initially planned launch in October this year.
Dr Annadurai said that India's moon mission now aims to land in February and the rocket launch will take place in January next year.
A little disappointing, of course, but January 2019 isn't bad. For something as complex as a moon mission, better not to take chances. But the news of GSLV Mark 3 being used for the launch, is startling. That was never spoken of before by ISRO, now it's pretty concrete! All this time, only GSLV Mark 2 was spoken of.
It's a bit too late to be making any changes, if they want to launch in January!
^
Agree. There's a little too much of that nationalism and jingoism in Bagla's reports- and he's supposed to be a science writer! It's okay to mention it, but it shouldn't be the centrepiece or the dominant theme. I don't like Frontline magazine( way too left politically!) but they have excellent science and technology articles by T.S Subramanian and R. Ramachandran, particularly in the area of aerospace. The first, second, 5th, 6th et al are certainly brought up, as they should be, but the accent is on the actual science and technology, and the challenges therein.
India's most ambitious Chandrayaan-2 mission, which was earlier scheduled for October first week, has been postponed till December, according to an Isro source.
Unlike the Chandrayaan-1 programme in 2008 that involved only orbiting around the moon, Chandrayaan-2 is a much complicated mission as it involves an orbiter, a lander and a rover. The mission involves a soft-landing on the lunar surface and a rover that will walk and analysis the content on the moon's surface. Being India's most challenging mission, Isro doesn't want to take chances and taking time to fix all glitches in the lunar mission.
As the weight of the Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft has increased, according to the source, GSLV Mk III or Isro's 'fat boy' will now carry the spacecraft as it has the lifting capability of over four tonne. According to the earlier plan, GSLV Mk II which just three-tonne lifting capability was supposed to carry the payload.
Describing India's Chandrayaan-2 mission, the Isro chairman had earlier told TOI, "It is totally an indigenous programme. All components of the Chandrayaan-2 mission, including an orbiter, a lander and a rover, have been developed in the country. There integration is going on and they all are undergoing rigorous tests.
On reaching the moon's orbit, the lander will get detached from the orbiter and soft-land on the lunar surface. The six-wheeled rover fixed within the lander will get detached and move on the lunar surface for around 100 metres. It will spend 14 Earth days (one moon day) and analyse the content. It will also take photos of the moon's surface and relay the images back to the Earth via the orbiter within 15 minutes."
The national committee that reviewed Chandrayaan-2 in March this year felt soft-landing would be a tricky proposition unless some improvements are made to the lander.
“We decided to add another liquid engine to the lander, revisit the mission sequence and conduct more tests. We realized that the deadlines set earlier were impossible to meet,” said a senior scientist present at the review.
The Chandrayaan-2 team also decided to have more electronic packages as standby. These additions increased the weight of the spacecraft.
“We could still carry this extra weight using an upgraded version of GSLV-MII, but we decided to go in for GSLV-MIII. And once this was decided, we could build in more redundancies for a safer flight as GSLV-MIII could take much more,”
In effect, the ground mass of Chandrayaan-2 went up from 3,250kg to 3,850kg.
The lander weight went up from 1,250kg to about 1,350, the six-wheeled rover’s weight from 20kg to 25kg. For every extra kilogram of the payload, the lift-off weight of the vehicle increases by 4kg, as more propellent is needed.
Before finalizing GSLV-MIII as the Chandrayaan-2 launcher, Isro had decided to ‘uprate’ GSLV-MII. “We had to uprate the cryogenic system and the liquid engine,” said the review panel member. “But then, we cannot afford to fly Chandrayaan as a test flight of the uprated GSLV-MII. Hence we have decided to use GSLV-MIII. There is a MIII launch scheduled in a couple of months. That launch will give us the confidence to go ahead with Chandrayaan-2.”
Sources say that this time, the delay was caused because the indigenously developed lander was having trouble with rethrottling. The lander has now gone back to the design table for a design change. "The lander was developing vibrations at the time of rethrottling. The problem appears to be with the thrusters," said a senior level official at the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).
Though the launch has been shifted by just three months but given that the vehicle taking the lander to the moon is also changing, a further delay may not be a surprise. Previously, the GSLV II was scheduled to ferry Chandrayaan 2, now it is reported that the heaviest vehicle in ISRO's stable, the Bahubali or GSLV III, is the vehicle of choice.
The development has taken time, and given that it is the first time India is developing a lander, the programme has faced many glitches like the present one. While no date was announced for the mission for a long time, it was finally said the rocket would take off in April 2018. But the launch was shifted to the next window, October 2018 and now it has been shifted further.
Sources say that while postponements are disappointing, one cannot compromise accuracy just to stay ahead in the race. A GSLV Mk III launch costs around Rs 4 billion and it also entails years of research and development. Every component needs to be precise before such an ambitious mission can be launched.
The decision on how many orbits the Lander will make has not yet been taken, but it will be a 100x30 (100km on one side and 30 on the other) elliptical orbit, which means that the entire configuration of the mission has now changed, in effect, causing the delay.
“Earlier, the plan was to gradually go down from 100km and reach 18km from the Moon’s surface. From there, the orientation would change, making the Lander go slightly horizontal for about 8.5km and then we were to change the orientation and velocity further to make the soft landing,” a senior member of the Chandrayaan-2 team said.
Now, as per the revised plans, the Lander has to go around the surface of the moon before entering the descent phase. Scientists working on the project say that this change in plan could have been avoided as the earlier configuration that was cleared would have achieved the main mission goals.
“This additional activity required by the Lander means a host of new hardware added. This is one method of achieving the landing, while the earlier one was another. Our job is to follow what the chairman and other seniors decide and develop things that can successfully complete the mission,” another scientist said.
This has also increased Chandrayaan-2 weight from 3,250kg to 3,850kg, which has prompted some changes, including moving to GSLV MK-III instead of the GSLV MK-II, which would have required an uprate to accommodate the additional weight.
New configuration & soft landing issue
As per the new configuration cleared after the fourth Comprehensive Technical Review (CTR) meeting held on June 19, among other things, the Lander would require a fifth liquid engine to manage the additional load of having to orbit, along with other hardware including a transponder which it earlier didn’t need.
“All these last-minute changes means that we have to test all the new hardware and then begin the fabrication process, which will delay the project. Also, the software algorithms need to change as the mission profile itself has been altered, and even this would need tests,” the scientist said.
“The fifth Centrally mounted 800N Steady State Liquid Engine with additional hardware has been included to mitigate upward draft of dust to craft while landing,” the Isro has found.
Also, the Lander will have a new Lander Leg configuration with increased base diameter (from 3.6m to 4.34m) which is to improve the stability margins.
Why the orbiting
According to the committee, the Lander is now required to orbit so that it can make “assessment of various system performances before the actual critical Powered,” and to do this, the descent phase requires the inclusion of four reaction wheel and its drive electronics as well as two micro Star Sensors (main & redundant) which will enable it to measure the moving velocity and help land.
It will also have transponders for ranging and doppler functions with the antenna configuration and a host of additional supporting systems—power, structure, thermal, etc, will also be added.
Besides, there will be two additional propellant tanks (390L capacity), additional pressurant tank (35.5L capacity) among other changes.
No - this to help locate the lander. Its images are compared with previous maps to identify its location, so it can be steered down to a precise landing. This technology has been described before, e.g. by Astrobotic in the US for the Moon and for future Mars landings as well. It will help ensure a safe landing by guiding the lander to the pre-selected safe location.
Probably the LRO images would be used for the terrain map, as they would have 2 or 3 times better resolution. My guess is that the low passes are intended to improve knowledge of the trajectory. Drop to the final pre-descent orbit and make a couple more orbits while the trajectory is checked, then commit to the final descent. Otherwise you are going from the higher orbit to the surface in one go.
Among the key missions to look for in 2019 will be the Chandrayaan-2, Aditya-L1 (India's solar mission) and two demonstration flights of the SSLV (small satellite launch vehicle).
Isro hopes to start the new year (2019) with the launch of Chandrayaan-2, which has already been delayed owing to multiple changes that were needed. Sivan said that they are looking at a launch window between January 3 and mid-March. "We hope to meet the January 3 date," he said, while confirming TOI's August 12 report that the entire configuration of the mission has changed.
The launch of India’s second spacecraft to the Moon has been delayed for the second time this year. Chandrayaan-2 had been expected to lift off in October, after it was pushed back from its original launch date in April.
Kailasavadivoo Sivan, chair of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) in Bangalore, told reporters on 12 August that the agency is aiming to launch the craft on 3 January next year — although the mission has a launch window of any time between January and March. Chandrayaan-2 will carry an orbiter that will travel around the Moon; a lander that will attempt India’s first controlled, or soft, landing; and a rover.
Sivan said that there were several reasons for the latest delay, including design changes to ensure a smooth touchdown for the lander. He said these changes have increased the weight of the spacecraft and therefore the amount of fuel needed to complete the mission, which has further added to delays.
NASA's Moon Minerology Mapper hits it big, confirming water ice on the Moon:
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/ice-confirmed-at-the-moon-s-poles
The pics seem to show way more ice detected at the South Pole compared to the North Pole - I wonder why. Shouldn't we expect similar apportionment for both poles? What could be the reason for this?
I wonder how this could affect the Chandrayaan-2 mission?
Nothing to do with rotation, the answer is topography. The south pole has more craters with permanent shadow in them than the north pole. In the north, many craters are largely filled with ejecta from the Imbrium basin impact, so they are not very deep (e.g. Peary) and don't have much shadow area. In the south, the gigantic South Pole-Aitken basin (extending from Aitken crater at c. 20 degrees south to the South Pole itself) causes lower topography to begin with (plus mountain blocks which cast shadow), and there are other craters in the area to dig even deeper - Shoemaker, Haworth, Faustini, Amundsen, Cabeus to name only the biggest ones. The result is much more permanent shadow in the south, and more opportunities for the ice to collect.
Chandrayaan 2 is landing at about 70 degrees south, nowhere near these ice deposits. They will have to wait for future missions.
Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) will launch its second moon mission 'Chandrayaan-2' carrying an orbiter, a lander and a rover between January 3 and February 16 next year. During a media interaction, Isro chairman K Sivan said, "We have a window of opportunity to launch the mission between January 3 and February 16. We will try our best to launch the mission during this window."
He said "Chandrayaan-2 will be the first mission in the world going near the "south pole", where recently Nasa's payload M3 on Chandrayaan-1 discovered ice in the shadow of craters.
The Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft will carry an orbiter, a lander and a rover. The lander carrying a rover will make a soft-landing on the south pole of the moon and the "rover will spend a full lunar day (14 Earth days) there to make the most of the day time performing experiments. "
The rover will walk 100 metres and analyse the content of the lunar surface. It will also perform several experiments using payloads it will be carrying. The orbiter and rover will send back photographs of the moon within 15 minutes. The Isro chairman revealed that the "mass of Chandrayaan-2 has been increased to 3.8 tonnes and will be launched by GSLV-MK-III", instead of GSLV Mk II as planned earlier.
Dutch lunar rover mission
By the end of 2018 or in early 2019 a small Dutch lunar rover will travel to the moon.
The little 1.5 kg six legged robot will land on the lunar surface and will send images back home
to earth. For this mission the Dwingeloo radio telescope will become ‘mission control’!! The
launch will take place in India and on the same launch there will also be an Indian lunar rover. In
fact the plan is that the Indian and Dutch lunar rovers will take pictures of each other. It’s a
‘proof of concept’ mission. If this is successful a whole ‘swarm’ of little rovers will go to the
moon eventually. One planned mission is to build radio antennas to form an array for radio
astronomy
The Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), which has set itself a January 3, 2019 deadline for the launch of India's second mission to Moon (Chandrayaan-2) has several technological challenges brought about by the new configuration that it must address. In fact, Isro Chairman Sivan K, after whose taking charge the Chandrayaan-2 project has undergone several changes, says that the Lander designed for the programme was ill-configured and would have led to the failure of the programme.
"You can say that this is Chandrayaan-3 as the project has been reconfigured completely. If we went with the previous configuration it would have been a disaster. They had not thought of so many issues, that are being corrected now," Sivan told TOI. "As things stand, January deadline looks difficult to meet, but as the chairman has said there's a window up to March," one person working on Chandrayaan-2 told said.
Among major challenges are the integration of the fifth liquid engine to manage the additional load of the lander which now has to orbit the Moon, lander legs, rover integration, modified harness and so on. Earlier this year, after the changes were made to the configuration, the fifth liquid engine failed a crucial qualification heat test. The Chandrayaan-2 mission will not be possible without this engine.
While confirming this, Sivan had told TOI in August: "The engine is fine, there was a problem with the way the test was conducted. Out of enthusiasm, people did the test wrong. The space system is such that real space environment must be created. But the way this is simulated must be correct, otherwise, there will be a problem. In this case, instead of creating external heat, the engine itself was heated." On Monday, he reiterated that the engine was alright and that it would be ready for the mission soon.
Also, in a recent development, the Rover team has written to the project management team that the new configuration has created a problem for the Rover unloading manoeuvre. According to the feedback given by the Rover team, the new extended solar panels - necessitated by the new configuration - now extends well beyond the body of the lander casting a shadow on the rover when it has to come out of the lander.
One scientist explains: "Although we have a battery, we won't know if that is in charged condition as it would have remained off, so we wanted sunlight. Now, the extension of the solar panel (an additional 350 meters) is casting a shadow, depriving the rover of sunlight during this manoeuvre." Sivan, however, said: "These are design challenges which will be overcome without much problem. It will all be corrected." Sivan has been insistent that the testing of Chandrayaan-2 happen only after the entire configuration is ready. The complete integration is expected to be ready by November 30.
India's second moon mission Chandrayaan-2 being launched by the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) will have a key software developed by a startup at its Bengaluru development centre. Omnipresent Robot Tech, a Delhi-based software and hardware development company, has developed the software for Chandrayaan's rover imaging and navigational manoeuvre at its development centre in Bengaluru. The software will take charge of the rover once it lands on the moon, a top company official said.
"We have developed 'Omny3D' which will help the rover to navigate on the moon's surface. It will help to identify rocks and obstacles and track the path from one point to another," Akash Sinha, founder and CEO of Omnipresent, told DH. On the moon, the rover will find it difficult to move as the surface is rough and dark. The software will help to overcome those hurdles.
The Isro didn't respond to a query sent by DH seeking details of the project. Omnipresent, a seven-year-old startup with more than 50 members, received the project order after winning a tender from Isro. The software also helps in the motion planning of the rover. "We will help in its navigation as per the commands from the ground station," he said.
The company is working closely with the Laboratory for Electro-Optics Systems (Leos), a research lab belonging to the Isro. It involves in the design and development of optics and sensor modules that can be deployed either aboard the satellite or with the launch vehicle.
The Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), said that a key payload for India's second moon mission - Chandrayaan-2 -has left the Satellite Application Centre (SAC) in Ahmedabad, where it was developed, for UR Rao Satellite Centre in Bengaluru, which will be responsible for the testing and integration. "The Lander Ka Band Radar Altimeter and HDA Processor was flagged off from SAC to UR Rao Satellite Centre. Ka Band Radar Altimeter and HDA Processor is one of the key payloads of Chandryaan-2," Isro said.
Isro is presently finalising some changes in the configuration, which was revised only this year after a committee of experts found that the landing profile was not conceived in the most optimal way, among other things. While Isro chairman Sivan K has announced January 3 as the date of launch, the most recent review meeting on Chandrayaan-2, held on September 19, has suggested that January 30 may be more ideal.
The TOI has been tracking Chandrayaan-2 closely and broken several developments, including the decision that the Lander, which according to the original plan was to land soon after separating from the payload, is to now orbit around the moon before landing. Chandrayaan-2, unlike the first mission, involves a Lander soft-landing on the lunar surface and unloading a Rover to study and take measurements from the Moon, while the orbiter will go around the Earth's satellite.
The Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), on Friday said it has successfully tested the Cryogenic Engine (CE-20) for GSLV Mk-III, which is earmarked for the launch of India's second moon mission, Chandrayaan-2. The test was done on October 11. The GSLV MK-III vehicle's upper stage is powered by the CE-20, which operates on a gas generator cycle using a combination of liquid oxygen (LOX) and liquid hydrogen (LH2) propellants.
The fifth hardware of CE-20 integrated engine designated as E6 is earmarked for GSLV Mk-III M1-Chandrayaan 2 mission. According to Isro, the "flight acceptance hot test" test lasted 25 seconds, and it was conducted at the High Altitude Test facility, Isro Propulsion Complex (IPRC), Mahendragiri. "The test demonstrated steady state operation of engine and the performance of all engine subsystems were observed to be normal during the hot test," Isro said.
"The major subsystems of the engine are thrust chamber, gas generator, LOX and LH2 turbo pumps, igniters, thrust and mixture ratio control systems, Start-up system, control components and pyro valves," Isro said, adding that the CE-20 develops a nominal thrust of 186.36 kN with a specific impulse of 442 seconds in vacuum.
Any idea what changes have been made to the E6 version of this engine?
What is specially needed for the Chandrayaan-2 mission?
Eminent scientist and former Physical Research Laboratory (PRL) director Prof J N Goswami, speaking on sidelines of his lecture at IIT Gandhinagar, said that the project is ‘almost ready’ and has shaped well. “We are expecting the launch in next few months,” he said.
In the photo on the ISRO link above, there are only 4 800N thrusters instead of 5. Are they still using the old diagram of the lander? Any idea why the 5th thruster is not seen?I think in that link they have most probably used an old test image.there should be an 5th engine.And without that engine the test will be incomplete.And why should they omit critical component in testing...
Isro chairman K Sivan said, "All three rockets and GSLV Mk II are almost ready." Preparations are also on for launch of Chandrayaan-2 and for the human space flight programme, he added.
Chandrayaan-2 will be launched in January next year. It will land on moon with a rover to conduct scientific experiments.
On the country's highly ambitious Chandrayaan-II mission, Sivan said, "We are targeting to launch the Chandrayaan mission on January 3. If some slippage happens, we have the launch window till February 16. We can launch the mission any day before February 16."
On lunar payloads, the chairman said, "The orbiter, lander and rover were being tested for the lunar mission. In fact, three-stage tests were conducted on the lander since last month. Some corrective measures were taken after the initial test. During the final phase of the lander actuator performance test, all on board systems like computer, software and propulsion systems were together tested at the Isro centre in Mahendragiri, Tamil Nadu and all the tests were successful."
The assembling of the GSLV Mk III rocket, which will carry the lunar spacecraft, that usually takes 50 days, "will be done well in time before January 3", the chairman said.
The orbiter carrying the lander and a rover is scheduled to be sent to the Moon from Sriharikota on January 31 and expected to reach there sometime in February 2019.
About two years back, ISRO had started readying a part of the Challakere site to resemble lunar craters and had conducted a few preliminary sensor tests. Features of the lander have since been modified and the upcoming tests will also validate the new design. “The development and testing of the orbiter are over. Lander-related activities are going on. We will then add the rover also [to tests.] Until the mission is launched, we would be testing all systems continuously after every integration,” said Dr. Sivan.
Sivan, in 2018, had said that Chandrayaan-2 will be launched aboard Geosynchronous Launch Vehicle (GSLV) Mk III in the first quarter of 2019, and the mission is expected to be launched by February end.
Did it get delayed again? This article says it's by Feb end."Sivan had said that"QuoteSivan, in 2018, had said that Chandrayaan-2 will be launched aboard Geosynchronous Launch Vehicle (GSLV) Mk III in the first quarter of 2019, and the mission is expected to be launched by February end.
Of course not. GSLV MK-III has to carry more payload ( 400 kg ) than the last GSLV MK-III D2 flight. Then there is the issue of the soft-landing of lander, rover. Unless these two things are fixed, it wouldn't be wise of ISRO to launch Chandrayaan-2.
Launch now expected by mid-February
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/indias-second-moon-mission-gets-delayed-again/articleshow/67364039.cms
The mass of the earlier composite module of Chandrayaan-2 was 3.2 tonnes. It has gone up to 3.8 tonnes now.
Earlier, we had thought of a 22,000 kilometre orbit [for 3.2 tonnes]. Now because of the increase in mass, the orbit has also increased. The orbit should be around 37,000 km.
It should now be 170 km x 37,000 km instead of 170 km x 22,000 km.
It is 170 km by 37,000 km. Since the mass has increased, the spacecraft has to be put into a higher orbit. Only then it is possible to reach the moon. Because of this, our old plan of launching Chandrayaan-2 by GSLV-MkII is not possible. We have changed Chandrayaan-2 to GSLV-MkIII for this reason.
Terming Chandrayan - 2 mission a calculated risk, he said it has been planned within the next three months. The landing site will be above 70 degree latitude where no one else has gone before, he said.
What are the next launch windows, if Chandrayaann-2 does not launch by February 16?
Hopefully it works and doesn't fail - that's the more important thing
"Regarding Chandrayaan-2 schedule, right now Chandrayaan is scheduled from March 25 to April end. Most probably, the normal targeted date is April middle," Sivan told reporters here.https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/watch-isro-chief-briefs-media-on-chandrayaan-2-indias-mission-to-mars/videoshow/67484120.cms
What parameters are defining the launch window?
According to Sivan, the much-delayed launch of Chandrayaan-2 - India's lunar lander - is now scheduled for March-April this year. The launch, originally scheduled for last April, was delayed as the spacecraft had to be reconfigured to bring in more redundancy to ensure safety as recommended by experts, he said.
...IMHO, no.
can we safely assume that there wont be any more delays in launch of the mission?
...
Delay is always an option,
and
Delay is infinitely better than failure.
India's lunar mission Chandrayaan 2, scheduled to launch next month, will carry NASA's laser instruments that allow scientists to make precise measurements of the distance to the Moon, according to the US space agency officials. During the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference held at Texas, US last week, NASA confirmed that Chandrayaan 2 and Israeli lander Beresheet, due to touch down April 11, will each carry NASA-owned laser retroreflector arrays.
"We're trying to populate the entire surface with as many laser reflector arrays as we can possibly get there," Lori Glaze, acting director of the Planetary Science Division of NASA's Science Mission Directorate, was reported as saying by 'Space.com'. While five such instruments already exist on the lunar surface, they have some flaws, according to Simone Dell'Agnello, a physicist at the National Institute for Nuclear Physics National Laboratory at Italy.
• The LRA is a passive instrument (So it means it does not need any power supply?)Hope India is charging usa a pretty penny and not doing it for free. Anyone knows how much is India charging for taking this reflector to the moon ?
• The retroflectors are placed on the nadir face of the satellite (So LRA will be stuck to the top of Vikram lander?)
https://www.aviso.altimetry.fr/en/missions/current-missions/jason-2/instruments/lra/index.html (https://www.aviso.altimetry.fr/en/missions/current-missions/jason-2/instruments/lra/index.html)
NASA can't ship funds to another country, as i understand it. If ISRO is carrying a reflector, India is getting something in kind, not cash. Probably communications help (like Beresheet) or other similar assistance. E.g. use of the DSN at times when India doesn't have direct communication with the spacecraft.
Do we know the timing and extent of the next Chandrayaan-2 launch window?
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/damage-to-moon-lander-delays-chandrayaan-2/articleshow/68714029.cms
'Vikram' Lander "broken its legs" during tests!
i think i am not sure whether this excuse is genuine or not...
:'( :'( :'(
The article is a bit confusing.Perhaps what the 'source' meant is, the
"A source in the know, said: “The rover and orbiter are in good health and tests met all the parameters. However, after the ‘Lander Drop Test’, we found that Vikram (the lander) needed to be strengthened in its legs. Prima facie, it appears that not all parameters were set correctly before the test, it could also be that the additional mass—a result of the new configuration—caused the problem.”"
First sentence says that the "tests met all the parameters" while the second sentence says "not all parameters were set correctly". Perhaps they mean the tests "correctly met the incorrect parameters"?!
But that original version was with a Russian lander, which probably would still be stuck on Earth now.
But from my understanding the lander configuration that was 'ready' for launch in 2017/2018 was found to be faulty during tests, and they had to redesign it (adding a fifth lander engine etc.. ) leading to the extra mass and new round of lander tests. Isn't it? So I guess it was pretty much unavoidable, or else the mission would have ended in failure.But that original version was with a Russian lander, which probably would still be stuck on Earth now.
Original version was revised with indian lander in 2014. It would have been ready for launch by 2017-2018 in its orginal config.
Maybe this will be finally launched just as the Chinese put their first crew on the Moon?Maybe the second half of this year. I'm putting my money on 2020 though.. ;)
Maybe this will be finally launched just as the Chinese put their first crew on the Moon?
Maybe this will be finally launched just as the Chinese put their first crew on the Moon?Maybe the second half of this year. I'm putting my money on 2020 though.. ;)
But from my understanding the lander configuration that was 'ready' for launch in 2017/2018 was found to be faulty during tests, and they had to redesign it (adding a fifth lander engine etc.. ) leading to the extra mass and new round of lander tests. Isn't it? So I guess it was pretty much unavoidable, or else the mission would have ended in failure.But that original version was with a Russian lander, which probably would still be stuck on Earth now.
Original version was revised with indian lander in 2014. It would have been ready for launch by 2017-2018 in its orginal config.
Now scheduled for second half of July:
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/01-may-2019/press-release-chandrayaan-2
Good news, now official, launch in July, dates given
With or without fuel? Before or after orbit insertion? Confusion may arise easily enough.
Is that figure of 3850kg confirmed? There were articles that mentioned a reduced mass of about 3200+ kg, and not just for the GSLV Mk2. Still great though.
Yes it was confirmed back in march. They lifted the mass from 3200 kg to around 3800 kg to better utilise the GSLV Mk-3 launch vehicle.
It is a laser reflector like the one carried on Beresheet, and updated from the old ones carried by apollo and lunokhod. This is not really completely new news, it has been mentioned before in recent months. Reflectors like this will be carried on many of the forthcoming landers.
ISRO Chairman and Department of Space Secretary.
Chandrayaan 2 between 9 and 16 July. Landing on Moon on 6 September.
https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/090619/bengaluru-rakesh-sharma-attends-gaganyaan-review.htmlQuoteChandrayaan to be launched on July 15
India's second lunar mission, Chandrayaan-II, will be launched on July 15 by a GSLV-MkIII rocket from Satish Dhawan Space Centre (SDSC), Sriharikota Range. A combo of an orbiter, a lander named 'Vikram' (after the late Dr Vikram Sarabhai), and a rover christened 'Pragyan', it will cruise through outer space for two months before entering into an orbit around the earth's nearest astral neighbour. The lander-rover will touch down on the Moon, close to the South Pole, in the first week of September to probe the lunar surface as well as carryout experiments. In all, 13 instruments (eight on the orbiter, three on the lander, and two on the rover) along with one from NASA (a laser retro-reflector array or LRA) will be carried onboard Chandrayaan-II, according to sources in ISRO.
Chandrayaan-2 nearly ready for July launch (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/chandrayaan-2-nearly-ready-for-july-launch/articleshow/69724508.cms)
• Spacecraft Integration nearly complete
• Final tests are on at Mahendragiri and Byalalu
• Spacecraft will leave Bengaluru on June 19
• Might reach the launchpad in Sriharikota on June 20 or 21
• Planned launch date July 9
So as I said, the exact location is not known very precisely.
The life of the rover is only one lunar day (14 earth days) but we have made some things that can help it survive longer. It is called a sleep and wake up solar-powered circuit which will help it revive after a long night once the sun comes out and it will be used to heat the system. If it works, we may get a bonus of couple more lunar days. In the case of the orbiter, we are talking of a life of six months to a year. I am hopeful it will live for a long time given the Mangalyaan experience which is living beyond its expected life span.
The Lander Vikram with Rover Pragyaan has been integrated with Orbiter.To be integrated with the launch vehicle in couple of days.
Source:Eenadu
It seems the orbiter+lander combination is mated to the top partition of the PSLV dual launch adapter
http://spaceflight101.com/pslv-c35/wp-content/uploads/sites/112/2016/09/pslvc35-ps4.jpg
Of course, what I meant is that the adapter on which the spacecraft is mated appears similar to that of PSLV as shown in photoQuote
It seems the orbiter+lander combination is mated to the top partition of the PSLV dual launch adapter
http://spaceflight101.com/pslv-c35/wp-content/uploads/sites/112/2016/09/pslvc35-ps4.jpg
Image says "pslvc35-ps4.jpg"... It was launched on 2016 right?
"In my opinion, if something goes wrong it will be during the descent and landing procedure to the lunar surface by the lander."
Was there a physical test of the lander conducted? There was electronic simulation.
I'm even a bit anxious about the mass/weight of the payload :-\ At 3.8 tonnes, that's the heaviest object lofted into space by an Indian vehicle, 400kg heavier than the GSAT-29. Though I know that the GSLV Mark 3 has been built for margins up to 4 tonnes :). ISRO deserves to be saluted for its bold and brilliant venture.
Chandrayaan Image gallery updated with new pictures
https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-gallery
Chandrayaan Image gallery updated with new pictures
https://www.isro.gov.in/chandrayaan2-gallery
NO embebed photos, please. Can you please attach them to your post?
Chandrayaan 2: Giant leap for ISRO (http://"https://frontline.thehindu.com/science-and-technology/article28261474.ece")
Do we know if there is a to-the-second time for the this launch? Or is it 21:21:00 UTC?
I think the launch kit technically constitutes as a mission brochure.
🇮🇳#ISROMissions🇮🇳
The launch countdown of #GSLVMkIII-M1/#Chandrayaan-2 commenced today at 0651 Hrs IST. The launch is scheduled at 0251Hrs IST on July 15th.
More updates to follow...
Chandrayaan-2 launch called off due to technical problems in fuel conductor. The mission was put on hold with just 56 minutes and 24 seconds to go.
Clock stopped at T-56:24. Tomorrow is a backup day.
A technical snag was observed in launch vehicle system at T-56 minute. As a measure of abundant precaution, #Chandrayaan2 launch has been called off for today. Revised launch date will be announced later.
20 day window for launch. Window is 16 minutes tomorrow.
20 day window for launch. Window is 16 minutes tomorrow.
Since ISRO did not broadcast this on their live stream, can you clarify for everyone? Does the launch window tomorrow open 16 minutes earlier than today? Is it the same time (21:21 UTC) and 16mins in duration? Did they confirm that they are targeting tomorrow for launch?
20 day window for launch. Window is 16 minutes tomorrow.
Since ISRO did not broadcast this on their live stream, can you clarify for everyone?
Does the launch window tomorrow open 16 minutes earlier than today?
Is it the same time (21:21 UTC) and 16mins in duration?
Did they confirm that they are targeting tomorrow for launch?
Also, I have people on twitter telling me that tomorrow is the last day of the launch window, but you're saying ISRO said there are 20 more days in the window?
20 day window for launch. Window is 16 minutes tomorrow.
Since ISRO did not broadcast this on their live stream, can you clarify for everyone?
This information came from one of the speakers in the NDTV broadcast.QuoteDoes the launch window tomorrow open 16 minutes earlier than today?
I don't believe so. They did mention when the window opens, but I didn't get that information down. As its a 24/7 channel, I can't go back to rehear it.QuoteIs it the same time (21:21 UTC) and 16mins in duration?
I don't think its the same time. The window duration is 16 minutes.QuoteDid they confirm that they are targeting tomorrow for launch?
No. They are waiting for ISRO to announce this.
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1150512237045379072QuoteA technical snag was observed in launch vehicle system at T-56 minute. As a measure of abundant precaution, #Chandrayaan2 launch has been called off for today. Revised launch date will be announced later.
A technical snag was observed in launch vehicle system at 1 hour before the launch. As a measure of abundant precaution, #Chandrayaan2 launch has been called off for today. Revised launch date will be announced later.
"The technical snag was noticed during the cryogenic fuel was being loaded. We have to approach the vehicle to assess the problem. First we have to empty the fuel loaded in the rocket, then the rocket will be taken back for further investigation," an ISRO source told IANS.
"This process will take 10 days after that only we can decide on the launch schedule," the source added.
What is a "fuel conductor" in the first place?
Cross-post from the post-successful launch speeches of PSLV C46; confirmation of launch window:ISRO Chairman and Department of Space Secretary.
Chandrayaan 2 between 9 and 16 July. Landing on Moon on 6 September.
Hope they are able to launch sometime this month. If they are not able to they will have to delay all the way into September as this will be the next available launch window after July.Do we have a source for this?
Can we have some (speculative) discussion of the possible technical issues here?My suggestion as a fellow member: any such pertinent discussion take place in its own discussion thread. Please don't clog up this launch/update thread.
https://news24online.com/news/why-chandrayaan-2-launch-was-postponed-get-all-information-here-9e32bbc1Fuel conductor? If the source is authentic, he would at least use proper terms.
The third stage, the most important stage in the rocket, seems to be a technical flaw as the batteries for the cryogenic engine are not charged. The addition of cryogenic gas bottle leakage has also been identified as another technical flaw. ISRO officials have announced that the launch has been postponed. This type of technical error has never been filed in the past. This is why ISRO scientists are criticizing the cause of this error. It is believed that the Chandrayaan-2 experiment is likely to be conducted on September 9.
ISRO has also announced that it will refuel with liquid hydrogen an hour before the launch. And in the final minutes, ISRO decided to postpone the experiment, since the computer was showing that there was some vacuum, refueling in the tank, and that the batteries were not fully charged at the same time
The unexpected change was caused by the fuel leak in the launch vehicle GSLV Mark-3. Preliminary information said the leak occurred in the most complex part. The malfunction occurred about half an hour after the liquid hydrogen was filled. Following the discovery of the leak, the mission director proposed postponing the launch.
What is a "fuel conductor" in the first place?
My guess is that they a referring to a fuel (LH2) pipe. Its anyone's guess what the problem is.
“The rocket functioning was not according to laid down parameters... we are extremely lucky to detect the anomaly just before the launch, we are in control, the rocket and satellite are safe,” the source added, hours after the moon mission was called off.
A committee of experts will now examine what went wrong and suggest ways to remove the glitches, it will take about a week to determine what exactly went wrong, the source added.
“We will have to dismantle the rocket to get to the root of the problem… we have window till month end to launch the mission,” the source added.
There were four suitable window periods for the launch in the month of July – July 15 and 16 and then again during new moon on July 29 and 30.
A1550/19 NOTAMN
Q) VOMF/QWMLW/IV/BO/W/000/999/
A) VOMF B) 1907172100 C) 1907311000
D) BTN 2100-2200 ON 17 JUL AND BTN 0830-1000 ON 18-31 JUL
E) GSLV- MKIII- M1 CHANDRAYAAN-2 ROCKET LAUNCH FM SHAR RANGE,
SHRIHARIKOTA WILL TAKE PLACE AS PER FLW DETAILS. THE LAUNCH WILL BE
ON ANY ONE OF THE DAY DRG THIS PERIOD.ACTUAL DATE OF LAUNCH WILL BE
INTIMATED 24 HR IN ADVANCE THROUGH A SEPARATE NOTAM.
LAUNCH PAD COORDINATES : 134312.00N 0801348.00E
NO FLT IS PERMITTED OVER THE DNG ZONES
DANGER ZONE -1: IS A CIRCLE OF 10 NAUTICAL MILES AROUND THE LAUNCH
PAD.
DANGER ZONE -2:
I. 1230N 08240
II. 1315N 08250
III. 1245N 08410
IV. 1200N 08400
DANGER ZONE -3
I. 1135N 08500
II. 1225N 08510
III. 1145N 08715
IV. 1055N 08705
DANGER ZONE 4
I. 0810N 09420
II. 0900N 09440E
III. 0825N 09615
IV. 0735N 09555
ROUTES AFFECTED IN CHENNAI FIR :
W20, Q11,V4,V9,Q23,Q24,L510,L645,N571,P761,A465
“If all goes well, we may probably see the launch happen as early as next Monday (July 22),” said a source. However, Isro is yet to officially make a statement.
Every launch has an optimal window to achieve the desired results. While Monday (July 15) had the longest window of 10 minutes — between 2.51am and 3.01am — Isro will have a window of one minute a day for the rest of the month.
The present window closes by this month-end, and if Isro misses it, Chandrayaan-2 may have to wait at least till September. Some scientists said it may not happen this year.
A source from Isro Telemetry, Tracking and Command Network (Istrac), said: “The satellite side has done an analysis. According to this, if we miss the July 31 window, there will be an impact on the mission profile.”
“This will affect operations of payloads. If we miss the deadline, the orbiter’s life may be reduced to six months from the present one year, as it would have used up some of its fuel,” the source said.
A leak in the helium bottle of the cryogenic engine of GSLV-MkIII forced the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) to abort the launch of Chandrayaan-2 early on Monday. The launch was called off just 56 minutes before the scheduled lift-off at 2.51am.
While Isro officially confirmed “a technical snag” in GSLV-MkIII, five sources independently confirmed to TOI that the launch was put off because of a leak in the cryogenic stage. “As a measure of abundant precaution, Chandrayaan-2 launch has been called off for today. Revised launch date will be announced later,” Isro tweeted.
“After filling liquid oxygen (oxidiser) and liquid hydrogen (fuel), helium was being filled. The procedure is to pressure the helium bottle up to 350 bars and regulate the output to 50 bars. After filling helium, we found the pressure was dropping, indicating there was a leak,” a senior scientist told TOI. “The team is yet to pinpoint the exact spot of the leak in the gas bottle; there could be multiple leaks.”
Significantly, a leak of the oxygen tank was detected during a ground test of an identical cryogenic engine on June 22, but Isro decided to go ahead with the launch. A senior scientist told TOI that Isro would “come back soon”, indicating the agency is trying to get the rocket off ground before the present launch window ends on July 31. The next best launch window (which ensures full 14 Earth days for the lander and the rover on Moon) comes in September.
The ₹978-crore Chandrayaan-2 project
QuoteThe ₹978-crore Chandrayaan-2 projectI believe this is the first time they have released the final cost of chandraayan-2. It works out to around $200 million. Initial budget was only 425 crore (~$90 million) when it was approved in 2008.
Source: https://m.timesofindia.com/india/chandrayaan-2-launch-put-off-maybe-for-a-few-moons/amp_articleshow/70236163.cms
In order to maintain the temperature of liquid hydrogen at -253 degree centigrade, the upper stage of the rocket has nine helium tanks maintained at a pressure of around 300 PSI (pound per square inch). Pressure dropped by 10% in one of these tanks. This is not a big problem and ISRO would have gone ahead with the launch for most missions,” one of the persons said. Considering the significance of the moon mission, ISRO did not want to take chances and aborted the launch.
The agency will drain the fuel — highly pressurised liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen — from the indigenous geo synchronous satellite launch vehicle (GSLV-MkIII) before it carries out a thorough test to identify a possible leak that could have led to the anomaly.
The process should take around a week, We should launch the mission soon
The gas bottle (pogo bottle) leakage during the cryogenic phase, which is crucial in the satellite carrier, has effectively stopped the experiment. The gas leaks in the pogo gas bottles, which are very important to cryogenic engines, were stopped before 56.24 minutes, due to the lack of sufficient thrust for the engines.
Scientists have withdrawn 25 tonnes of liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen fuel during the cryogenic phase overnight. At the bottom, the nitrogen spreaders need to be cleaned thoroughly to remove the adjacent fuel layers. It will take another five days.
Since the rocket had to be dismantled, the process of withdrawing 110 tonnes of liquid fuel, including cryo fuel, was carried out from Monday morning.
The launch is likely to be postponed until the end of this year, as the rocket spare parts have to be disassembled and reassembled.
ISRO teams have pinpointed the leak in the GSLV-MkIII cryogenic engine to a ‘nipple joint’ of the helium gas bottle that supplies pressure to the fuel and oxidiser
The good news is that we can fix the leak without dismantling the rocket, since there is an access door to the gas bottle which is atop the oxygen tank
The bad news is that unless we ascertain the reason for the leak, there is a probability of the problem recurring
Not having to dismantle means Chandrayaan-2 may be able to fly before the end of the July launch window, but a final failure analysis will be available only in a day or two
leak wasn’t serious enough to impair the flight, but Isro decided to apply “abundant caution"
The rocket could’ve still made it, but we didn’t want to take any chances
A veteran of Isro failure analysis said teams would now look at the proximity of the faulty ‘nipple joint’ to the oxidiser tank that stores liquid oxygen at minus 183 degrees Celsius. “If the joint was close to such a low temperature, the reason could be micro shrinkage of the joint. In that case we need to insulate it or shift the joint away from the coldest point,” the scientist said.
Do we have a source for this?
While ISRO promised to announce the new launch date soon, it’s worth noting the current launch window expires on July 16 (tomorrow). That’s not a lot of time to fix a major issue with the launch vehicle, and so it’s likely that the Chandrayaan-2 will take off only during September when the next window opens up.
“The fuel from the launch vehicle has already been emptied out. There was a helium leak from the propellent team. The problem has now been discovered. A nipple joint valve in the plumbing malfunctioned. This can be repaired on the launch pad and there will be no need for disassembling the launch vehicle,” an ex-scientist at the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), who is still involved with the project, said on condition of anonymity.
“This system performed precisely in the way it was designed to and we managed to save the nearly ₹1,000 crore mission in time. We were lucky that the mission did not enter the automatic launch sequence, else all would have been lost. All things are in our control,” a senior official from Isro said on condition of anonymity after the launch was aborted.
“Once the valve is fixed, Isro will refuel and check whether there is any leak. If not, the mission can proceed,” said the scientist quoted in the first instance.
There is a launch window for Chandrayaan-2 during the new moon on July 29 and 30. After that, the next such window will open only in September.
“If Isro pushes the launch to next month, then the inclination of the orbit will have to be changed, leading to more fuel consumption, reducing the payload capacity of the vehicle,” the scientist said.
Moon mission will have to be launched, latest by July 20, and not later, if the mission has to run successfully without risks of compromise or even failure
Lunar transfer trajectory (LTT) (the movement of the spacecraft from the Earth’s orbit towards the Moon’s orbit) has to be completed on August 1, which is referred to as T+17, or 17 days after the initially calculated launch at 2.51 am on July 15.
The scientist said delaying the launch beyond July 20 will mean making a rendezvous with the Moon at a different time and location, which could delay the lander’s separation, besides requiring more fuel. This, in turn, could reduce the life of the orbiter
He said longer lunar orbital insertion or delays would also prevent the lander from separating. He explained that delays in orbit could affect the orbiter’s pyro-circuit, whose objective is to generate energy to light up the lander’s thrusters to separate from the orbiter and begin its descent towards the lunar surface
He emphasised the need to launch not later than July 20, or wait and launch the mission in the next launch period
“Now we have to seal and insulate the joint from the cold or shift it away. The second option is tough if we were to work on the engine without dismantling the rocket. Now efforts are on to plug the leak without moving the rocket from the launchpad, so we can launch it sometime early next week,” said a source.
A senior scientist said the Chandrayaan-2 setback has presented some learnings for the indigenous cryogenic engine
CE-20, which was developed after studying Russian cryogenic engines used rigid joint. Isro adopted the rigid joint concept in several places. The rigid joints have lesser chances of leak, but if there is one, they have to be discarded and made again. ISRO doesn't have the luxury to discard and use another engine in short notice.
The Chandrayaan-2 experience may force Isro to make some changes in the cryogenic stage. We may not entirely drop rigid joints, but now we may think of having some add-ons like an ‘S’ loop or a ‘U’ loop that can help deal with such anomalies. This latest setback has been an unexpected learning curve
Chandrayaan-2 launch, which was called off due to a technical snag on July 15, 2019, is now rescheduled at 2:43 pm IST on Monday, July 22, 2019.
InForce
O 181019Z JUL 19
HYDROPAC 2326/19(63).
BAY OF BENGAL.
DNC 03.
1. HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS, ROCKET LAUNCHING
220830Z TO 221000Z JUL:
A. AREA WITHIN TEN MILES OF 13-43.2N 080-13.8E.
B. AREA BOUND BY
12-30N 082-40E, 13-15N 082-50E,12-45N 084-10E, 12-00N 084-00E.
C. AREA BOUND BY
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D. AREA BOUND BY
08-10N 094-20E, 09-00N 094-40E,08-25N 096-15E, 07-35N 095-55E.
2. CANCEL THIS MSG 221100Z JUL 19.//
GENERAL.//
A1582/19 - GSLV- MKIII- M1 CHANDRAYAAN-2 ROCKET LAUNCH FM SHAR RANGE, SHRIHARIKOTA
WILL TAKE PLACE AS PER FLW DETAILS. THE LAUNCH WILL BE ON ANY ONE OF THE
DAY DRG THIS PERIOD.ACTUAL DATE OF LAUNCH WILL BE INTIMATED 24 HR IN
ADVANCE THROUGH A SEPARATE NOTAM. LAUNCH PAD COORDINATES : 134312.00N
0801348.00E NO FLT IS PERMITTED OVER THE DNG ZONES DANGER ZONE -1: IS A
CIRCLE OF 10 NAUTICAL MILES AROUND THE LAUNCH PAD. DANGER ZONE -2: I. 1230N
08240E II. 1315N 08250E III.1245N 08410E IV. 1200N 08400E DANGER ZONE -3 I.
1135N 08500E II. 1225N 08510E III.1145N 08715E IV. 1055N 08705E DANGER ZONE
4 I. 0810N 09420E II. 0900N 09440E III.0825N 09615E IV. 0735N 09555E END
PART 1 OF 3. BTN 0830-1000 ON 22-31 JUL, 22 JUL 08:30 2019 UNTIL 31 JUL
10:00 2019. CREATED: 18 JUL 11:10 2019
The problem was resolved without changing any component - just "tightening it worked". (https://www.ndtv.com/blog/aborting-chandrayaan-2-better-than-showing-fireworks-to-president-2071657)
QuoteThe problem was resolved without changing any component - just "tightening it worked". (https://www.ndtv.com/blog/aborting-chandrayaan-2-better-than-showing-fireworks-to-president-2071657)
BENGALURU: Notwithstanding the last-minute scrubbing of Chandrayaan-2 launch on July 15, Isro may still be able to soft-land Vikram (lander) on the same day as it had initially planned —September 6-7.
“There may be a slight change in strategy, but it won’t affect the actual day of landing,” a senior scientist associated with the mission told TOI on Thursday.
The agency will be able to achieve the landing on September 6-7 as its initial plan included a “buffer” time around Moon for two reasons: First, to give itself a second chance in case of hiccups that pushed the launch from July 15.
“Now, nothing in the initial approach is changing. We’ll still take 22 days to insert Chandrayaan-2 into the lunar orbit because we need 17 days around Earth for five orbit raising manoeuvres, and then five days for the lunarcraft to travel close to Moon,” a senior scientist explained.
Also, the number of days Vikram needs to go around Moon in a 30kmX100km orbit before initiating deboosting procedures for landing will also be the same as planned initially—four days.
The only thing that will change is the number of days the spacecraft goes around Moon before lander separation. According to initial plans, the spacecraft was to go around in a 100kmX100km orbit for 28 days before separation, and now it will go around for 21 days.
“Technically, the separation could have happened even after just one day of lunar insertion. The reason the orbiter had 28 days as per the first plan was because the July 15 window meant we reached there much earlier than the most suited day for landing (September 6-7), which gives us 14 full days (1 lunar day) on Moon,” the scientist explained.
“Now, we will reach Moon about seven days later than the initial plan, but still in 22 days from launch. And yet, we have enough time left for landing on the same date,” the scientist added.
So, the total number of days of the mission will be reduced from 54 days to 47 days.
A shorter launch window on July 22—Isro chairman K Sivan had on June 12 said that all days of July after the 15th will only have one minute—another senior scientist said, won’t be a “problem”.
“You don’t need to worry about the length of the launch window. Look at the last 20 missions and you’ll know that we’ve launched on the dot. So the length of the window shouldn’t be a concern even now,” a scientist said.
Comparison of previous and current flight plan.
UH25 (fuel) filling of liquid core stage (L110) of #GSLVMkIII-M1 commenced.
#Chandrayaan2 #ISRO
Stay tuned for more updates....
#Chandrayaan2 #ISRO
UH25 (fuel) filling of liquid core stage (L110) of #GSLVMkIII-M1 completed
Updates to continue...
Period | Date (IST) | Phase |
Day 23 | Aug 13 | Trans Lunar Injection (TLI) |
Day 23-30 | Aug 13-20 | Lunar Transfer Trajectory (LTT) |
Day 30 | Aug 20 | Lunar Orbit Insertion (LOI) |
Day 30-42 | Aug 20-Sep 1 | Lunar Bound Phase (LBN) |
Day 43 | Sep 2 | Lander-Orbiter Separation |
Day 44 | Sep 3 | Deboosting |
Day 48 | Sep 7 | Powered Descent and Landing |
Filling of N204 for the liquid core stage (L110) of #GSLVMkIII-M1 commenced
#Chandrayaan2 #ISRO
Updates will continue.....
https://twitter.com/isro/status/1153128666907332609
Does NASA's Deep Space Network participate in this mission in a supporting role?
I know they participate in JAXA Hayabusa2 mission even though JAXA has deep space stations. The DSN also supports ESA even though it also has deep space stations.
Have never seen info one way or the other for Indian missions.
Thanks
Does NASA's Deep Space Network participate in this mission in a supporting role?
I know they participate in JAXA Hayabusa2 mission even though JAXA has deep space stations. The DSN also supports ESA even though it also has deep space stations.
Have never seen info one way or the other for Indian missions.
Thanks
Yes they do. See https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965660#msg1965660
At the time of launch, the Chandrayaan 2
Orbiter will be capable of communicating
with the Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN) at
Byalalu, as well as with the Vikram lander.
Does NASA's Deep Space Network participate in this mission in a supporting role?
I know they participate in JAXA Hayabusa2 mission even though JAXA has deep space stations. The DSN also supports ESA even though it also has deep space stations.
Have never seen info one way or the other for Indian missions.
Thanks
Yes they do. See https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965660#msg1965660
The referenced post only says "DSN". The Launch Kit makes no reference to NASA's DSN. It does reference India's DSN, as in this quote:QuoteAt the time of launch, the Chandrayaan 2
Orbiter will be capable of communicating
with the Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN) at
Byalalu, as well as with the Vikram lander.
Does NASA's Deep Space Network participate in this mission in a supporting role?
I know they participate in JAXA Hayabusa2 mission even though JAXA has deep space stations. The DSN also supports ESA even though it also has deep space stations.
Have never seen info one way or the other for Indian missions.
Thanks
Yes they do. See https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965660#msg1965660
The referenced post only says "DSN". The Launch Kit makes no reference to NASA's DSN. It does reference India's DSN, as in this quote:QuoteAt the time of launch, the Chandrayaan 2
Orbiter will be capable of communicating
with the Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN) at
Byalalu, as well as with the Vikram lander.
As the post you yourself quote mentions, the Indian DSN is abbreviated as IDSN. NASA's DSN is the "DSN" in the post.
Closer to launch time, you will also be able to load up 'DSN Now' - https://eyes.nasa.gov/dsn/dsn.html and see it tracking Chandrayaan-2
Does NASA's Deep Space Network participate in this mission in a supporting role?
I know they participate in JAXA Hayabusa2 mission even though JAXA has deep space stations. The DSN also supports ESA even though it also has deep space stations.
Have never seen info one way or the other for Indian missions.
Thanks
Yes they do. See https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965660#msg1965660
The referenced post only says "DSN". The Launch Kit makes no reference to NASA's DSN. It does reference India's DSN, as in this quote:QuoteAt the time of launch, the Chandrayaan 2
Orbiter will be capable of communicating
with the Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN) at
Byalalu, as well as with the Vikram lander.
As the post you yourself quote mentions, the Indian DSN is abbreviated as IDSN. NASA's DSN is the "DSN" in the post.
Closer to launch time, you will also be able to load up 'DSN Now' - https://eyes.nasa.gov/dsn/dsn.html and see it tracking Chandrayaan-2
Thanks for the replies - was asking in general for the whole mission does NASA DSN play a supporting role while - for example - Chandrayaan 2 is on the moon.
Less than five hours for the launch !!!
Filling of Liquid Oxygen for the Cryogenic Stage(C25) of #GSLVMkIII-M1 commenced
#Chandrayaan2 #ISRO
#Chandrayaan2 #ISRO
Two hours to go !!! Filling of Liquid Oxygen in Cryogenic Stage(C25) of #GSLVMkIII-M1 completed and Filling of Liquid Hydrogen is in progress
12:12 AM - 22 Jul 2019
#ISRO #Chandrayaan2
Filling of Liquid Hydrogen in Cryogenic Stage(C25) of #GSLVMkIII-M1 completed.
1:08 AM - 22 Jul 2019
T-40 minutes. No parts had to be replaced to fix problem.
Webcast has begun, but ISRO official hasn't started yet.
They burned the stage to depletion rather than the usual launch sequence, where the closed loop guidance system shuts the engine off when the intended orbital parameters have been achieved.
1 44441U 19042A 19203.40693672 -.00010969 68193-4 00000+0 0 9991
2 44441 21.3772 17.7365 7761146 178.4611 7.5305 1.75640648 01
1 44442U 19042B 19203.40872376 -.00001563 17283-5 00000+0 0 9997
2 44442 21.4253 18.0300 7739947 178.5988 8.7184 1.77127690 09
Thanks for all these great screenshots, Steve - you always capture the right moments :)
Its FIRST mission to go to Moon South Pole right ? Then why wikipedia says Chinese landed there first ?
Does NASA's Deep Space Network participate in this mission in a supporting role?
I know they participate in JAXA Hayabusa2 mission even though JAXA has deep space stations. The DSN also supports ESA even though it also has deep space stations.
Have never seen info one way or the other for Indian missions.
Thanks
Yes they do. See https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1965660#msg1965660
I have not followed this at all but I wish them luck and congratulate them on the launch.
Are they aiming for a crater or feature where ice has been spotted? I hope they find ice, lots of it.
@VIKINGirl re: WP article.Yes, please report it to their moderation system and they will decide whether to lock the editing on the that page. If it is edited to many times it will be automatically disabled and subject to manual review.
Welcome to the forum! Speaking as a fellow forum member:
The "first/second polar region landing" statement appears to be caught up in an ongoing edit war. As of this minute, it says "first" again.
The NSF forums are not Wikipedia. Complaining here about WP content will accomplish nothing.
Space-track.org
edit: 2nd object
Why are 3 objects (A, B C) listed instead of one, when a single integrated payload was launched from Sriharikota?one of the three objects is the launch vehicles upper stage.
Why are 3 objects (A, B C) listed instead of one, when a single integrated payload was launched from Sriharikota?one of the three objects is the launch vehicles upper stage.
Looks like chandrayaan-3 is already in the works for 2024.Their is a dedicated thread already for next mission so please use it.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/chandrayaan-2-after-chandrayaan-2-is-a-moon-3-sample-return-trip-next-with-japan/article28655993.ece
Chandrayaan2 update: First earth bound maneuver
First earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (July 24, 2019) at 1452 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 57 seconds. The new orbit will be 230 X 45163 km.
The second orbit raising maneuver is scheduled on July 26, 2019, at 0109 hrs (IST).
List of all orbit raising burns, up to TLI:
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/24-jul-2019/chandrayaan-2-updatemission-plan-of-chandrayaan-2-spacecraft
Looks like chandrayaan-3 is already in the works for 2024.Their is a dedicated thread already for next mission so please use it.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/chandrayaan-2-after-chandrayaan-2-is-a-moon-3-sample-return-trip-next-with-japan/article28655993.ece
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48396.0
Quoting Chris's article....
The fact that India’s first soft lunar landing mission’s launch will coincide within a day of the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 lunar landing is completely coincidental.
Really ?
Could it be ISRO way to saying "Thank you NASA"
The mission was originally targeted to launch in 2011 as a joint Indian-Russian venture[...]
Natural delays in design and build, as well as Roscosmos’ financial difficulties, delayed the mission to 2013. Then, the November 2011 mission failure of the Phobos-Grunt Mars probe delayed construction of Russia’s Lander contribution and pushed the Chandrayaan-2 mission into 2015. Continued financial fallout from the Phobos-Grunt mission failure as well as other financial problems plaguing Roscosmos eventually led the Russian agency to withdraw from the Chandrayaan-2 mission.
India then decided to do the mission by itself. With that, the launch was pushed to March 2018 before incurring delays to April and October of that same year before moving into the “first half of 2019”. Minor damage to two of the Lander’s legs during pre-flight testing in February 2019 further delayed the launch to 14 July. [+leak problems]
Quoting Chris's article....
The fact that India’s first soft lunar landing mission’s launch will coincide within a day of the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 lunar landing is completely coincidental.
Really ?
Could it be ISRO way to saying "Thank you NASA"
Quoting that same article, which uses info easily verifiable just looking upthread:QuoteThe mission was originally targeted to launch in 2011 as a joint Indian-Russian venture[...]
Natural delays in design and build, as well as Roscosmos’ financial difficulties, delayed the mission to 2013. Then, the November 2011 mission failure of the Phobos-Grunt Mars probe delayed construction of Russia’s Lander contribution and pushed the Chandrayaan-2 mission into 2015. Continued financial fallout from the Phobos-Grunt mission failure as well as other financial problems plaguing Roscosmos eventually led the Russian agency to withdraw from the Chandrayaan-2 mission.
India then decided to do the mission by itself. With that, the launch was pushed to March 2018 before incurring delays to April and October of that same year before moving into the “first half of 2019”. Minor damage to two of the Lander’s legs during pre-flight testing in February 2019 further delayed the launch to 14 July. [+leak problems]
Second earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (July 26, 2019) at 0108 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 883 seconds. The orbit achieved is 251 x 54829 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The third orbit raising maneuver is scheduled on July 29, 2019, between 1430 – 1530 hrs (IST).
I'm wondering why do we have to utilize NASA's deep deep space network. We do have our own, don't we?You dont have a world wide network with the capabilities needed.
I'm wondering why do we have to utilize NASA's deep deep space network. We do have our own, don't we?DSN covers almost the whole sky, because there are stations in Goldstone, Canberra, and Madrid. AFAIK the Indian system only has large dishes near Bangalore, so it can only see the spacecraft some of the time.
IDSN (Indian Deep Space Network) consisting of 11 m, 18 m and a 32 m antenna were established at the IDSN campus in Byalalu near Bangalore as part of the Chandrayaan-1 mission ground segment. The IDSN station will receive the Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft health data as well as the payload data. For the orbit raising phase, the TTC functions will be executed by ground stations of the ISTRAC network (Bangalore, Mauritius, Port Blair, Brunei, Biak, Trivandrum). The NASA/JPL DSN (Deep Space Network of Goldstone, Canberra, and Madrid) will provide deep space communication with the Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter as requisitioned.
I'm wondering why do we have to utilize NASA's deep deep space network. We do have our own, don't we?
One day if IDRSS is implemented, it might help reduce India's dependence on overseas ground stations:
https://www.indiatoday.in/education-today/gk-current-affairs/story/satellites-isro-idrss-1411248-2018-12-17
It's not primarily meant for Deep Space communication, but in principle it could adapted for that use as well.
July 29, 2019
Third earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (July 29, 2019) at 1512 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 989 seconds. The orbit achieved is 276 x 71792 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The fourth orbit raising maneuver is scheduled on August 2, 2019, between 1400 – 1500 hrs (IST).
Comparison of planned Jul 14th and realized Jul 22 trajectory:So Chandrayaan 2 is arriving a week late but still landing on the same date???
Comparison of planned Jul 14th and realized Jul 22 trajectory:So Chandrayaan 2 is arriving a week late but still landing on the same date???
"Hi resolution mapping of the landing area by the orbiter, uploading the terrain maps to the lander, and fine tuning of the exact landing spot will need to be done in a shorter time - but still about ~15 days must be more than ample."But in ISRO's mission sequence video,it shows that the lander too does some part of the scanning while in orbit.It's obvious now there is not pinpoint landing site as of now.So the orbiter shortlists the landing sites whereas the lander further fine tunes it.
We know that the lander will spend less time in orbit because of the launch delay. But 15 days will not be ample for mapping the landing site because the site will be in darkness most of that time. The landing is shortly after sunrise (36 hours after sunrise, I believe), so it will be in darkness for 14 out of the 15 days.
Not to worry, because ISRO has access to all the LRO images in PDS, including stereo images, and it can do all the mapping it needs without using its own high resolution camera (and that has already been done and reported at LPSC this year, albeit in a print-only abstract). The camera on Chandrayaan 2's orbiter will be most useful for post-landing documentation.
"Hi resolution mapping of the landing area by the orbiter, uploading the terrain maps to the lander, and fine tuning of the exact landing spot will need to be done in a shorter time - but still about ~15 days must be more than ample."
We know that the lander will spend less time in orbit because of the launch delay. But 15 days will not be ample for mapping the landing site because the site will be in darkness most of that time. The landing is shortly after sunrise (36 hours after sunrise, I believe), so it will be in darkness for 14 out of the 15 days.
Not to worry, because ISRO has access to all the LRO images in PDS, including stereo images, and it can do all the mapping it needs without using its own high resolution camera (and that has already been done and reported at LPSC this year, albeit in a print-only abstract). The camera on Chandrayaan 2's orbiter will be most useful for post-landing documentation.
Chandrayaan2 update: Fourth earth bound maneuver
Fourth earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (August 2, 2019) at 1527 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 646 seconds. The orbit achieved is 277 x 89472 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The next orbit raising maneuver is scheduled on August 6, 2019, between 1430 – 1530 hrs (IST).
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/02-aug-2019/chandrayaan2-update-fourth-earth-bound-maneuverQuoteChandrayaan2 update: Fourth earth bound maneuver
Fourth earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (August 2, 2019) at 1527 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 646 seconds. The orbit achieved is 277 x 89472 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The next orbit raising maneuver is scheduled on August 6, 2019, between 1430 – 1530 hrs (IST).
Fifth earth bound orbit raising maneuver for Chandryaan-2 spacecraft has been performed successfully today (August 6, 2019) at 1504 hrs (IST) as planned, using the onboard propulsion system for a firing duration of 1041 seconds. The orbit achieved is 276 x 142975 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The next maneuver is Trans Lunar Insertion (TLI), which is scheduled on August 14, 2019, between 0300 – 0400 hrs (IST).
Intelsat requests an expedited grant of Special Temporary Authority for three days, commencing August 13, 2019, to utilize a 7.3m S-band antenna located at its Paumalu, Hawaii teleport to receive telemetry signals from the Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft as it transits to the Moon. Chandrayaan-2 launched on July 22, 2019. Intelsat is seeking expedited treatment because, due to unforeseen circumstances, the original antennas that were planned to support the spacecraft’s maneuvers on August 13th will not have coverage of the spacecraft when the maneuvers will occur. Intelsat expects to receive telemetry for approximately five minutes on August 13, 2019.
I don't expect a webcast for TLI and LOI since there won't be anything to see (other than telemetry data), but hopefully there will be a webcast for the landing, where pictures or video of the landing might be transmitted.
I have put together a very rudimentary 2D animation of the Chandrayaan 2 orbit based on orbit data available from JPL/NASA HORIZONS interface:
I have updated my animation with support to view XY, XZ, and YZ planes.
I am using:Yes, I understand.
Coordinate systm: Ecliptic and Mean Equinox of Reference Epoch
Second Lunar bound orbit maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (August 21, 2019) beginning at 1250 hrs IST as planned, using the onboard propulsion system. The duration of the maneuver was 1228 seconds. The orbit achieved is 118 km x 4412 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The next Lunar bound orbit maneuver is scheduled on August 28, 2019 between 0530 - 0630 hrs IST.
What could be the reasons for very few photos or videos emerging out of the mission so far? Lack of planning, Energy conservation, lack of cameras or just delay in receipt /processing image data? It is a pity that mission of this magnitude has so few visual records to share with the common man in India.
https://twitter.com/i/redirect?url=https://twitter.com/i/topics/tweet/1164535259561517058?cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email&t=1+1566701737929&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&sig=0300973c5727d8542785d09a0eac42fc65412273&iid=8df7074825af412db5a121872c6c0b2d&uid=253672073&nid=244+272699409
August 28, 2019
Third Lunar Orbit Maneuver
Third Lunar bound orbit maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (August 28, 2019) beginning at 0904 hrs IST, using the onboard propulsion system. The duration of the maneuver was 1190 seconds. The orbit achieved is 179 km x 1412 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The next Lunar bound orbit maneuver is scheduled on August 30, 2019 between 1800 - 1900 hrs IST.
#ISRO
Fourth Lunar bound orbit maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (August 30, 2019) at 1818 hrs IST.
For details please visit https://bit.ly/2L7UuKo
Fourth Lunar bound orbit maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (August 30, 2019) beginning at 1818 hrs IST as planned, using the onboard propulsion system. The duration of the maneuver was 1155 seconds. The orbit achieved is 124 km x 164 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The next Lunar bound orbit maneuver is scheduled on September 01, 2019 between 1800 - 1900 hrs IST.
September 01, 2019
Fifth Lunar Orbit Maneuver
The final and fifth Lunar bound orbit maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (September 01, 2019) beginning at 1821 hrs IST as planned, using the onboard propulsion system. The duration of the maneuver was 52 seconds. The orbit achieved is 119 km x 127 km.
All spacecraft parameters are normal.
The next operation is the separation of Vikram Lander from Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter, which is scheduled on September 02, 2019, between 1245 – 1345 hrs (IST). Following this, there will be two deorbit maneuvers of Vikram Lander to prepare for its landing in the south polar region of the moon.
Would all the orbiter's payloads, or some of them, now be operational? The orbiter is now in its permanent orbit.Commissioning phase i think is underway.
Would all the orbiter's payloads, or some of them, now be operational? The orbiter is now in its permanent orbit.
#ISRO
The first de-orbit maneuver for #VikramLander of #Chandrayaan2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (September 03, 2019) at 0850 hrs IST.
For details please visit https://bit.ly/2lA9NkF
Here's view of Control Centre at ISTRAC, Bengaluru
The first de-orbiting maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (September 03, 2019) beginning at 0850 hrs IST as planned, using the onboard propulsion system. The duration of the maneuver was 4 seconds.
The orbit of Vikram Lander is 104 km x 128 km. Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter continues to orbit the Moon in the existing orbit and both the Orbiter and Lander are healthy.
The next de-orbiting maneuver is scheduled on September 04, 2019 between 0330 - 0430 hrs IST.
Sep 04, 2019https://www.isro.gov.in/update/04-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-update-second-de-orbiting-maneuver
Chandrayaan-2 update: Second de-orbiting maneuver
The second de-orbiting maneuver for Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft was performed successfully today (September 04, 2019) beginning at 0342 hrs IST as planned, using the onboard propulsion system. The duration of the maneuver was 9 seconds.
The orbit of Vikram Lander is 35 km x 101 km. Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter continues to orbit the Moon in an orbit of 96 km x 125 km and both the Orbiter and Lander are healthy.
With this maneuver the required orbit for the Vikram Lander to commence it descent towards the surface of the Moon is achieved. The Lander is scheduled to powered descent between 0100 - 0200 hrs IST on September 07, 2019, which is then followed by touch down of Lander between 0130 - 0230 hrs IST
A newbie question here - Has orbiter also been deorbited? From what was originally 119 km x 127 km to 96 km x 125 km? or is this wobble within the acceptable band of error as far as space orbits go?Orbiter was to be put in an orbit of 100 X 100 km and it is in the process of doing that.Only the lander has been put into an orbiter 0f 35 x 101 km.Real deorbit of lander happens an hour before landing.
A newbie question here - Has orbiter also been deorbited? From what was originally 119 km x 127 km to 96 km x 125 km? or is this wobble within the acceptable band of error as far as space orbits go?
Further, Isro also carried out another manoeuvre of the orbiter on Tuesday, which the space agency did not officially announce. Sources said that the orbiter’s orbit was further reduced after a 36-second burn of the onboard propulsion systems. The orbiter reduced the distance closest to the moon to reach an orbit where the perigee was 96 km. "This was done so that the orbiter is right on the head of the lander when the landing happens", a source added.
Livestream of Chandrayaan 2 landing by DD National.
Starting tommorow 6 PM UTC
That's the beginning of the window for the powered descent (19:30 to 20:30 UTC).Livestream of Chandrayaan 2 landing by DD National.
Starting tommorow 6 PM UTC
Says 19:30 UTC to me, which is 55 minutes before the landing.
All about Vikram Lander and Landing !!
When should this move over to the science missions page?
--- Tony
Horizons added the Vikram orbit.Found an automatic plotter of Horizons data:
The first picture arrives Chandrayaan-2 to the Moon,
Tentative plan (All times IST)
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1169899242569158658 (https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1169899242569158658)
Livestream of Chandrayaan 2 landing by DD National.The countdown says 30 minutes from now.
Starting tommorow 6 PM UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2srV-bEi_DU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2srV-bEi_DU)
The Moon landing site video in Chota's post above (reply #826) is atrocious - not Chota's fault, I'm sure. The sites look like they are in about the right pattern but they are not properly registered with the background image. There are lots of good site maps out there these days. Don't use that one!
I'm still wondering whether Vikram is landing on near side or far side of the Moon.Live view:
I'm still wondering whether Vikram is landing on near side or far side of the Moon.
Chandrayaan Crater?Not total loss, they still have orbiter that should produce a year's worth of data.
Don't like the look of this:
https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1170069633526665216 (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1170069633526665216)
Figure it out and fly again.
Everything was right down the center, until it wasn't.
India will solve the problem and nail this.
Ah well, these things happen.
Looking forward to hearing about a re-try.
Ah well, these things happen.
Looking forward to hearing about a re-try.
It's very heart breaking and soul crushing for us as after 10 years of development and many precautionary measures and design changes this has happened. :-X
Fortunately, ISRO still has the orbiter to investigate the Moon with.
These are raw ephemeris from NASA Horizons, don't know if it is possible to calculate lat/lon of orbiter:Fortunately, ISRO still has the orbiter to investigate the Moon with.
Do we know how long it will be until the Orbiter will pass over the Landung/impact site?
PM with chairman.
it would be interesting to know if a stable hover attitude was established before the trouble began.
I presume this is not something one can easily test on Earth.
Both are completely different missions in all aspects.Ah well, these things happen.
Looking forward to hearing about a re-try.
It's very heart breaking and soul crushing for us as after 10 years of development and many precautionary measures and design changes this has happened. :-X
The Israeli's know what you're feeling. :'(
Can speeds be calculated from these data?
some hope for the laser retroreflector surviving the impact?
From the screencap in this tweet (whose interpretation I think is erroneous, but the image is objective):The 1km in the telemetry window is not altitude, it's downrange distance, the only altitude on display was on another window.
Looks like vx=48 m/s; vy=58 m/s were reached at ~1 km altitude.
I hope there were no tardigrades on board.
Joke aside, congratulations to India for trying to push the envelope. I am sure there will be another attempt.
... and they still have the Orbiter.
Unlikely....most space mission has two objectives,one scientific and the other political .With Nasa's Artemis launching as early as 2024 the purpose of sending a rover mission would be lost completely
Unlikely....most space mission has two objectives,one scientific and the other political .With Nasa's Artemis launching as early as 2024 the purpose of sending a rover mission would be lost completely
Well first Artemis has to indeed happen. But also I fail to see why other space powers (China, Russia, India, Japan, South Korea...) would cease to perform Lunar robotic missions when it happens.
Unlikely....most space mission has two objectives,one scientific and the other political .With Nasa's Artemis launching as early as 2024 the purpose of sending a rover mission would be lost completely
Unlikely....most space mission has two objectives,one scientific and the other political .With Nasa's Artemis launching as early as 2024 the purpose of sending a rover mission would be lost completely
ISRO already is planning Chandrayaan-3 for a while, it will be a joint mission with JAXA (https://www.asianage.com/opinion/oped/160619/chandrayaan-2-will-be-the-stepping-stone-for-human-landing-on-the-moon.html). It was tentatively scheduled for 2024 (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/after-mars-venus-on-isros-planetary-travel-list/articleshow/69381185.cms), but that is under review. Don't think that it depends on Artemis in any way. Soviet Union also kept sending their "Luna" landers to the Moon while NASA sent Apollo crew.
When can we expect that LRO would find the crash spot like it did for beresheet?If this simulator is right, the orbital plane is fixed and the orbiter is passing over crash site every 2 hours:
“We have to find out from the communication data whether it is a soft landing or it is a crash landing. In my opinion, it is not a crash landing because the communication channel is on between the lander and the orbiter. It should be intact. So, let us hope after the analysis done, we may be able to get the final figure,” he said, reports ANI
"If this simulator is right, the orbital plane is fixed and the orbiter is passing over crash site every 2 hours:"
The orbit plane is fixed but the Moon rotates under it, so if Chandrayaan 2 passed right over the landing site during the landing, on every orbit after that it passes over a point a bit further east. A month later it passes over the landing site again. Actually, half a month later it passes over the landing site as well, but the site is in darkness.
https://m.hindustantimes.com/india-news/chandrayaan-2-landing-vikram-may-have-landed-on-moon-let-s-wait-for-analysis-says-former-isro-chief/story-QoAvYHuCok6T66Bl2krzhO.htmlThese inter-language misunderstandings are always annoying.Quote“We have to find out from the communication data whether it is a soft landing or it is a crash landing. In my opinion, it is not a crash landing because the communication channel is on between the lander and the orbiter. It should be intact. So, let us hope after the analysis done, we may be able to get the final figure,” he said, reports ANI
Figure it out and fly again.
Everything was right down the center, until it wasn't.
India will solve the problem and nail this.
These aren't the days of Russia's Lunas or the US Rangers and Surveyors. There is no longer a production line of spacecraft so that another mission can be quickly prepared.
This year, The Moon is REALLY a VERY harsch mistress. Two down for the count ! Still, kudos to ISRO. No doubt the orbiter will do a good job.
Chandrayaan-2 mission was a highly complex mission, which represented a significant technological leap compared to the previous missions of ISRO, which brought together an Orbiter, Lander and Rover to explore the unexplored south pole of the Moon. Since the launch of Chandrayaan-2 on July 22, 2019, not only India but the whole world watched its progress from one phase to the next with great expectations and excitement. This was a unique mission which aimed at studying not just one area of the Moon but all the areas combining the exosphere, the surface as well as the sub-surface of the moon in a single mission. The Orbiter has already been placed in its intended orbit around the Moon and shall enrich our understanding of the moon’s evolution and mapping of the minerals and water molecules in the Polar Regions, using its eight state-of-the-art scientific instruments. The Orbiter camera is the highest resolution camera (0.3m) in any lunar mission so far and shall provide high resolution images which will be immensely useful to the global scientific community. The precise launch and mission management has ensured a long life of almost 7 years instead of the planned one year. The Vikram Lander followed the planned descent trajectory from its orbit of 35 km to just below 2 km above the surface. All the systems and sensors of the Lander functioned excellently until this point and proved many new technologies such as variable thrust propulsion technology used in the Lander. The success criteria was defined for each and every phase of the mission and till date 90 to 95% of the mission objectives have been accomplished and will continue contribute to Lunar science , notwithstanding the loss of communication with the Lander.
Quote from: ISROThe Vikram Lander followed the planned descent trajectory from its orbit of 35 km to just below 2 km above the surface.
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/07-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-latest-update (https://www.isro.gov.in/update/07-sep-2019/chandrayaan-2-latest-update)
Yesterday they told the media that communication with the lander was lost in 2.1 km height. Now they say it performed well until below 2 km. How to know that, if communiction was already lost before?I guess the guilty is that "down range", which means "horizontal distance from landing point" but really looks like altitude in the text version of telemetries... where no altitude is present.
Is there already any explanation for these facts?Most likely either because of attitude error of the lander which caused the antenna to be pointed away from Earth or something happened to the comms equipment.
LOS exactly (?) when lander had to switch descending mode to hovering.
Why did LOS occur before crash?
(https://i.imgur.com/695tjTn.png)
Is there already any explanation for these facts?Most likely either because of attitude error of the lander which caused the antenna to be pointed away from Earth or something happened to the comms equipment.
LOS exactly (?) when lander had to switch descending mode to hovering.
Why did LOS occur before crash?
(https://i.imgur.com/695tjTn.png)
Is there already any explanation for these facts?
LOS exactly (?) when lander had to switch descending mode to hovering.
Why did LOS occur before crash?
(https://i.imgur.com/695tjTn.png)
The red line is the anticipated flight trajectory generated on the ground. The actual flight trajectory of the lander is the green line with the dot at the end of it. As you can see, it ends well before the 0/0 point on the plot.Is there already any explanation for these facts?
LOS exactly (?) when lander had to switch descending mode to hovering.
Why did LOS occur before crash?
(https://i.imgur.com/695tjTn.png)
It looks like the red line went completely vertical at the altitude where LOS of signal happened. Could have been some problem with pitch over to completely vertical flight (thruster changing attitude stays on too long, thruster stopping roll doesn't fire).
The red line is the anticipated flight trajectory generated on the ground. The actual flight trajectory of the lander is the green line with the dot at the end of it. As you can see, it ends well before the 0/0 point on the plot.Is there already any explanation for these facts?
LOS exactly (?) when lander had to switch descending mode to hovering.
Why did LOS occur before crash?
(https://i.imgur.com/695tjTn.png)
It looks like the red line went completely vertical at the altitude where LOS of signal happened. Could have been some problem with pitch over to completely vertical flight (thruster changing attitude stays on too long, thruster stopping roll doesn't fire).
Probably but omni antennas only cover so much. I believe out to about 180°s Field of View (FoV) for an omni antenna. One antenna would only cover one side of the spacecraft. If the spacecraft did indeed change its attitude for the worse, the antenna would rotate away from Earth and possibly point either into deep space or towards the lunar surface. Either way, you would end up in an LoS situation.Is there already any explanation for these facts?Most likely either because of attitude error of the lander which caused the antenna to be pointed away from Earth or something happened to the comms equipment.
LOS exactly (?) when lander had to switch descending mode to hovering.
Why did LOS occur before crash?
(https://i.imgur.com/695tjTn.png)
Any omni / low gain antenna on the lander?
Very exciting to see India’s rapid progress in space! There are always setbacks, of course, but I think India is doing great overall.
Incredible effort by the #ISRO team. Keep going! Step by step. #Chandrayaan2 #GradatimFerociter
"We thought one of the thrusters may have underperformed," said an Isro scientist. "But after some preliminary analysis, it looks like a thruster overperformed."
Officially, Isro maintained that data was still being analysed. However, a scientist told TOI, "Vikram's legs were to be horizontal during the roughbraking and had to be rotated by 90 degrees to bring them vertical to the landing surface before fine-braking. At this point, the thrust might have been more than optimal, impacting the lander's orientation. It's like a car losing direction due to sudden braking at high speed."
A top ISRO official told Frontline, “Vikram’s descent was very good during the rough braking phase. During the transition from the rough braking phase to the fine braking phase, there was a problem. The velocity of the descent could not be controlled. We are trying to identify what failed and what went wrong. It is very disappointing.”
The official said the lander would have crash-landed on the moon’s surface, a point that he emphasised more than once. “There is no question of its soft-landing. From the data available, it is clear that it has crashed,” he said. “We have a lot of data available and they are being analysed. In a couple of days, we will be able to come out with what the problem was,” he added. The data included telemetry data, including on-board data from the lander.
Another top official of ISRO said a committee consisting of specialists in propulsion, control, guidance, navigation and sensors had been set up to identify the precise reason why contact was lost with the lander when it was only 2.1 km above the moon’s surface. He added: “In a few more minutes, we would have touched down on the lunar surface. What is the reason why no data were available when the lander had only 2.1 km to come down we have no clue as yet. However, enormous amounts of data are available and we will analyse them to find out what exactly went wrong.” He also stressed that a glitch occurred during the transition phase of the lander from the rough braking phase to the fine braking phase.
A top ISRO official said, “It is not clear why it happened. We are unable to decipher anything out of it so far. We have set up a team consisting of specialists in propulsion, control, guidance, navigation and sensors to find out what went wrong. So far, we do not have any clue about what went wrong.” He was confident that ISRO would zero in on the exact cause of the failure because enormous data were available and they would be analysed. All the data would be correlated. What was clear was that the lander had crashed on the moon’s surface.
Chandrayaan-2: Is Vikram’s excess velocity towards terminal phase the villain?
...
“Up to 2.1 km all was fine. Soon the rotation rates increased and the engine thrust went up to 100 per cent in place of around 70 per cent. The velocity too shot up indicating tumbling and crashing. At this stage, the telemetry link was lost,” says another top scientist part of the crucial mission activities.
...
“We had to plot every bit of data including the algorithm profile. In the next 3-4 days we should have an answer. The lander after rotation (90 degree, at around 25 km) seems to have gained more velocity than required. Things might have gone wrong here,” he said.
@vasudevan49
Latest update:
Lander found 500m away from the actual landing spot. But almost upside down. Seen from OHRC image and it is intact!
Trying to send commands from Bangalore control center...
Just spoke with @isro chairman Sivan. He confirms that the #Chandrayaan2 orbiter has sent images of #Vikram, the lander. But no communication has been established yet.
Unofficial rumors, take it with a pinch of salt.Quote@vasudevan49
Latest update:
Lander found 500m away from the actual landing spot. But almost upside down. Seen from OHRC image and it is intact!
Trying to send commands from Bangalore control center...
https://twitter.com/vasudevan49/status/1170347263610146816
Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) Chief, K Sivan to ANI:We've found the location of #VikramLander on lunar surface&orbiter has clicked a thermal image of Lander. But there is no communication yet. We are trying to have contact. It will be communicated soon. #Chandrayaan2
Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) Chief, K Sivan to ANI:We've found the location of #VikramLander on lunar surface&orbiter has clicked a thermal image of Lander. But there is no communication yet. We are trying to have contact. It will be communicated soon. #Chandrayaan2
The Chandrayaan-2's Vikram module has been located on the lunar surface and it must have been a hard-landing, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) chairman K. Sivan said on Sunday.
“Yes, we have located the lander on the lunar surface. It must have been a hard-landing,” Mr. Sivan told PTI.
Asked if the lander was ‘damaged’ during the ’hard-landing,’ he said, “That we do not know.”
Mr. Sivan said efforts to establish contact with the lander were continuing.
Sources said Vikram’s antennas have a beamwidth of 180°, which means they can stay connected with the orbiter only if the antennas’ angular manoeuvre is within 180°. “If the lander starts to tumble and when antennas face the lunar surface, the communication link is lost. It’s like losing your DTH connection when the antenna on your terrace is pushed by a bird or the wind. Here the situation is far more grave as Vikram was tumbling. The rotation was so high that Vikram along with Pragyan rover crashed,” said an ISRO scientist, who was inside the Mission Control Room, on condition of anonymity.
To a query on why Vikram tumbled, sources said there could be multiple reasons, including design failure. They even said the lander was not put through elaborate tests. “The tests were conducted using a crane manually, instead of testing it in a free-fall condition with a balloon in autonomous mode. Only the last 60 metres descent was tested. A spare lander should have been used to drop it from an aircraft and see if all the parameters were met. This would have given a more realistic picture,” sources said.
Thermal image of Vikram posted in this article. Not sure about legitimacy of the source!
https://aboutspacejornal.net/2019/09/08/в-сети-появились-снимки-посадочного-м/?_utl_t=tw
https://aboutspacejornal.net/2019/09/08/в-сети-появились-снимки-посадочного-м/?_utl_t=twThe infrared image of the moon itself is actually from LCROSS, anyway.
It is an optical image that has been captured by Orbiter of the lander spot and not thermal image as reported by others media houses. OHRC is same like our human eye. Since it consists of only one spectral band in visible region, so Image will be of gray scale, Not color image.
ISRO Sources confirms me that "Lander found 500m away from the actual landing spot. Seen from OHRC (Optical High Resolution Camera) image and it is intact. Trying to send commands from Bangalore control center." @ABPNews
Thermal image of Vikram posted in this article. Not sure about legitimacy of the source!
https://aboutspacejornal.net/2019/09/08/в-сети-появились-снимки-посадочного-м/?_utl_t=tw
There are many fake images going viral claiming to be of "Lander Spot on Lunar surface" clicked by Orbiter. FYI, No such image has been released by @isro so far.
On the bright side for the SPL, its payload on the orbiter — CHACE-2 (short for Chandra’s Altitudinal Composition Explorer) — is functioning perfectly, SPL Director Radhika Ramachandran told The Hindu on Sunday.
“'The data from CHACE-2 is excellent. In fact, we have been taking observations and collecting data on the way, in the trans-lunar orbit and the lunar orbit as well. It is functioning perfectly,” Dr. Ramachandran said. CHACE-2 is designed to measure the composition of the lunar exosphere, and is an improvement on CHACE, which flew aboard the Moon Impact Probe (MIP) on the 2008 Chandrayaan-1 mission.
"Once the image was taken yesterday (Saturday), we had to ascertain if the object we saw was Vikram. Then based on the latitude and longitude, we checked old images from the same site. The old images didn't show any objects, while the new one showed an object, which is how we concluded that it was Vikram," the scientist said.
"At the outset, it appears that a more than optimal thrust, or a more than required horizontal velocity could have caused the lander to spin out of control. But we are also looking at other things, including what we may have not anticipated," the scientist said. Explaining further, he said that there could have been some "unknown" effect on the lander while it was performing the descent from which it couldn't recover. "It could as well be a natural phenomena we hadn't accounted for. We are still looking," he said.
On this specific question, Sivan said: "As of today we don't have enough...We are yet to find anything conclusive, we are still analysing the information. But yes, we are looking into all these angles."
Reiterating that Chandrayaan-2 orbiter's bonus lifespan is a big takeaway, he said that the satellite will provide breakthrough data. ".. I am telling you that we will have another breakthrough with data about water. Given that our orbiter orientation is 90 degree, we have an advantage in locating ice and water. We will be specifically able to look at solidised or frozen water 10m under the surface of the Moon. We will make history," he added.
"After about a year, once all the eight payloads complete the primary objective of collecting data from a 100km orbit and we receive all of that, there is a thinking about lowering its orbit," the scientist said. He added that the cameras, especially would be used more optimally from a lower orbit.
When asked, Sivan said: "If we go to a 50km orbit, the resolution would be even better. But at this point, no final decision has been taken and 7.5 years of life for the orbiter present us with an opportunity, for the first time, to map the whole of Moon using such good cameras."
Can speeds be calculated from these data?(https://www.kosmo.cz/img.php?w=800&src=https%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-unt5tvmmH6o%2FXXXx_PyFYkI%2FAAAAAAAAzSU%2F5htKqW--VKwtQnM_A3stOokLCXgmeoVeACLcBGAs%2Fs1600%2FChandrayaan-2%252Blast%252Btime%252BCees%252BBassa2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/QgvMf5W.png)
I'm getting a bunch of ContentID claims on old videos because someone unrelated to ISRO has decided to claim ownership their Chandrayaan 2 animation.
90% of the time I get a ContentID hit the claimant doesn't own the rights, and yet
@YTCreators
can't dispute based on this.
Lander intact but tilted!
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/isro-not-losing-hope-continues-to-make-all-out-efforts-to-restore-link-with-lander-vikram/articleshow/71045854.cms
I did a mistake in my image: they are kHz, not Hz.Can speeds be calculated from these data?(https://www.kosmo.cz/img.php?w=800&src=https%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-unt5tvmmH6o%2FXXXx_PyFYkI%2FAAAAAAAAzSU%2F5htKqW--VKwtQnM_A3stOokLCXgmeoVeACLcBGAs%2Fs1600%2FChandrayaan-2%252Blast%252Btime%252BCees%252BBassa2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/QgvMf5W.png)
Lander intact but tilted!Fake news.
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/isro-not-losing-hope-continues-to-make-all-out-efforts-to-restore-link-with-lander-vikram/articleshow/71045854.cms
I wonder if other Space Agencies offered help in trying to restore comms with the lander, Assuming this would be technically possible, for example using the Deep Space Network from Earth.DSN was supporting the landing, and that arrangement undoubtedly includes support in off nominal situations. The lander has actually shown up DSN now feed, but it's virtually certain these are artifacts like we saw in the Opportunity recovery effort, not actual contacts. If there were real contacts, I'd expect that news to get out pretty quickly.
It appears that the Deep Space Network is attempting to send data to the Vikram lander, which ISRO lost contact with just before its landing. This is likely them trying to reestablish communications. ISRO has yet to provide an official update on the lander's status.
Appears there is a downlink signal from the Lander??
In off-nominal scenarios when a project may be attempting to recover a spacecraft that is in safe mode or experiencing other operational challenges, an antenna may wrongly report that is receiving data from the spacecraft in question. While the ground station is searching for a signal, it may ‘lock on’ to a signal from a different spacecraft and wrongly identify it as the spacecraft being searched for. This is particularly common with spacecraft at Mars as multiple spacecraft are within the field of view of a single DSN antenna. For example, attempts to recover the Opportunity Rover (MERB) may appear successful when the antenna has actually locked on to a signal from one of the orbiters around Mars such as MAVEN or MRO. When this occurs, engineers ask the antenna to ‘drop lock’ and the hunt for the spacecraft continues.
Sep 10, 2019
Chandrayaan 2: Vikram lander has been located by the orbiter
Vikram lander has been located by the orbiter of Chandrayaan-2, but no communication with it yet. All possible efforts are being made to establish communication with lander
DSS 24 carrier lock on Chandrayaan-2 Lander
Frequency: 2.2846GHz
Signal strength: -138dBm
IDLE OFF 1 TURBO
Appears there is a downlink signal from the Lander??
If there was, it's not there anymore, which is in line with the "drop lock" part of the following from the DSN website:QuoteIn off-nominal scenarios when a project may be attempting to recover a spacecraft that is in safe mode or experiencing other operational challenges, an antenna may wrongly report that is receiving data from the spacecraft in question. While the ground station is searching for a signal, it may ‘lock on’ to a signal from a different spacecraft and wrongly identify it as the spacecraft being searched for. This is particularly common with spacecraft at Mars as multiple spacecraft are within the field of view of a single DSN antenna. For example, attempts to recover the Opportunity Rover (MERB) may appear successful when the antenna has actually locked on to a signal from one of the orbiters around Mars such as MAVEN or MRO. When this occurs, engineers ask the antenna to ‘drop lock’ and the hunt for the spacecraft continues.
Appears there is a downlink signal from the Lander??You should assume these are false positives unless there is confirmation from people with direct knowledge of the missions or DSN. The system that feeds DSN now and the twitter feed is well known to produce false positives in this kind of situation.
After a long silence, @isro releases statement. It says #Vikram is still quiet. All efforts being made to communicate. #Chandrayaan2 orbiter has spotted lander. My sources say that Isro is yet to ascertain the condition of transponder on Vikram, but no official word yet.
So maybe this is a silly aside, but what about that NASA Laser Retroflector that was included on the Vikram Lander? Where exactly was it mounted on the lander? How robust or fragile is that thing?
Whether the lander is in pieces, or intact but overturned, would that passive Laser Retroflector still potentially be usable by NASA? Does it require a specific orientation? Or is it just a shiny thing that will reflect back as long as it's exposed to the open sky?
So maybe this is a silly aside, but what about that NASA Laser Retroflector that was included on the Vikram Lander? Where exactly was it mounted on the lander? How robust or fragile is that thing?Assuming that they planned for vikram to have it's top side more or less pointing towards earth, we can imagine that it was attached on top of the vehicle.
Whether the lander is in pieces, or intact but overturned, would that passive Laser Retroflector still potentially be usable by NASA? Does it require a specific orientation? Or is it just a shiny thing that will reflect back as long as it's exposed to the open sky?
[...]Virkam's microreflector will not be observed by lunar laser stations on Earth. Instead, lasers fired from a satellite will bounce off this small reflector, telling scientists the distance between the satellite and the microreflector on the lunar surface.
"One plausible explanation was that the lander started falling more rapidly," he told BBC Hindi's Imran Qureshi. "It's supposed to come down at a velocity of two metres per second when it hits the Moon's surface. But the gravity on the moon would have made it fall somewhat more rapidly.''
He believes this could be because the central engine was not "producing the thrust that is required and, therefore, the deceleration was no longer what it was supposed to be".
And this, in turn, may have led to eventually losing communication with the lander itself.
The head of India's first Moon mission, Mylswamy Annadurai, also said the anomaly in the velocity profile was an indication that something had malfunctioned in the lander as it hurtled towards the Moon.
"Most likely the orientation [of the lander] could have been disrupted. Once we look at the data we will be able to say for sure what happened, but it is likely that either a sensor or a thruster could have malfunctioned," he told BBC Tamil.
Dr Rajeswari Rajagopalan, the head of the Nuclear and Space Policy Initiative of the Observer Research Foundation (ORF), also said an engine malfunction was the likeliest reason.
"In the absence of data parameters, it is difficult to come to a conclusion, but the readings on the screen did show that something was wrong," she told BBC Hindi.
"The other possibility is that when you do a landing at a higher speed, you cause a lot of dust to rise that also shakes up the spacecraft because of the gravitational pull. But it's more likely the malfunctioning of one of the engines."
"The other possibility is that when you do a landing at a higher speed, you cause a lot of dust to rise that also shakes up the spacecraft because of the gravitational pull. But it's more likely the malfunctioning of one of the engines."What?!?
"The way it came down suddenly, I think there must have been something wrong with its propulsion system."
"this is likely to happen when one or two of the four locomotives have gone wrong."
"All four engines were working up to a distance of 2.1. The central engine is turned on when the lander is about 400 meters above the surface. If you keep all four engines running till the surface is reached, then Debris can cause problems. The central engine must be turned on at the vertical landing point. "
https://www.bbc.com/hindi/india-49622103
ISRO Chairman K.K. Sivan has said that the Indian space agency will try for 14 days to contact the lander.http://bharatpages.in/feedviewer.php?id=198&qq=%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8-2%20%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8B%20%E0%A4%B2%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%B0%20ISRO%20%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%87%20%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%20%E0%A4%9F%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%9F,%20%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BE%20%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%B2%20%E0%A4%97%E0%A4%88%20%E0%A4%B2%E0%A5%88%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%B0%20%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AE%20%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%80%20%E0%A4%B2%E0%A5%8B%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B6%E0%A4%A8%20
So maybe this is a silly aside, but what about that NASA Laser Retroflector that was included on the Vikram Lander? Where exactly was it mounted on the lander? How robust or fragile is that thing?
Whether the lander is in pieces, or intact but overturned, would that passive Laser Retroflector still potentially be usable by NASA? Does it require a specific orientation? Or is it just a shiny thing that will reflect back as long as it's exposed to the open sky?
This is it. It works like one of those cats eyes reflectors on a bicycle. It sends the light back to where it came from, no matter from which angle it came (within limits of course).
Assuming that they planned for vikram to have it's top side more or less pointing towards earth, we can imagine that it was attached on top of the vehicle.
We don't know the final orientation of the lander. Maybe it's upside down, maybe it's on it's side, maybe somewhere in between or it landed right side up and how much damage it took.
Remember it's location on the south pole of the moon means that if you are on the surface and you look 90° straight up, you will not see earth. So if Vikram is on it's side or at an angle, it may be that the reflector is either pointing directly at earth or it's in the shadow of the lander, depending on the rotation of the vehicle.
The retroreflector wasn't made for Earth laser ranging, it's too small to send back a significant return of laser pulses from Earth. It's meant for laser ranging from lunar orbit, which allows for an extremely precise measurement of its altitude relative to the rest of the lunar surface. This provides a reference point, which is needed for precise geodysy (map making) of the lunar surface.
IMO the retroreflector (and indeed, the rest of the lander) is most likely in tiny pieces embedded in and scattered across the lunar surface.
Given that ISRO continues to find a way to make contact with the lander, it it very likely that it is indeed intact or at least major part of it is intact for ISRO to believe that something can be done about it. Assuming that is the case and given that last telemetry indicated a vertical speed of 76m/s (it should have gotten shattered at this speed at impact point on Moon), it should have slowed down to sufficient enough vertical speed that it landed as a relatively intact unit. What could that be ? Any data available from past such experience? Based on that, probability of instrumentation surviving the impact could be deduced ?
Wouldn't it be great if a black-box kind of equipment would be automatically be jettisoned on first impact and be immediately available to rely last moments of the mother-ship to an orbiter ?
Why would they NOT release the pictures publicly? Is it because the pics are intended to be classified?
Why would they NOT release the pictures publicly? Is it because the pics are intended to be classified?
Why would they be classified?
Why would they NOT release the pictures publicly? Is it because the pics are intended to be classified?
Why would they be classified?
It’s just an assumption. I literally don’t know why ISRO is not releasing the pics yet.
Can someone show me where exactly the antenna of the lander lies ? does it transmit in S band or L Band ? or both? are the antennas in two different sides of the Lander ?I think it is this one.
Can someone show me where exactly the antenna of the lander lies ? does it transmit in S band or L Band ? or both? are the antennas in two different sides of the Lander ?
Vikram is equipped with three transponders and a phased array antenna — the dome type structure on top of it. The lander will have to use these to receive signals, decipher it and talk back.
BENGALURU: K Sivan, chairman, Isro, which has been analysing the reasons behind the unsuccessful soft-landing of Vikram, the lander on Chandrayaan-2 on September 7, has told scientists to move and focus on upcoming projects, the TOI has learnt.
Sivan addressed scientists and engineers at Isro on Monday (September 9) and conveyed the same, even as the internal failure analysis committee (FAC) probes into the events that led to the change in trajectory and eventual crash landing of Vikram. At least two people who heard the address confirmed it to TOI.
“Our chairman addressed us through the internal network. He concluded that Chandrayaan-2 is done with 100% success for orbiter science and 95% success for landing technology. Instead of soft landing we have done hard landing. He told us not to worry and instead concentrate on lined up projects,” an Isro scientist told TOI.
Landings are PASS/FAIL.
"95% successful landing" for a high-speed impact smashed lander is ridiculous.
Do or do not, there is no 95%.
Landings are PASS/FAIL.
"95% successful landing" for a high-speed impact smashed lander is ridiculous.
Do or do not, there is no 95%.
I always wonder why the lander was not made into a ball shaped toughened cased item so that it can simply crash land and then use thrusters to rotate itself according to the required angle based on gravity of the moon as reference. Without unnecessary complications like thrust vectoring and knowing the exact gravitational field of moon etc are difficult. The lack of knowledge about moon's gravitational field is the main reason why nations fail in the first few attempt at landing on moon.
[...]
2. More realistically bad image data for control algorithms.
[...]
I don't think lander navigation at this point is image driven. It makes more sense that image analysis is used for hazard avoidance at much lower altitudes. It looks like it was an issue with the attitude control and/or thrust since it looks like the lander started tumbling when it was at more than 2 km. As far as I understand how it works at this point inertial navigation systems and maybe radar should generate the the main input for control algorithms. One of these sensors or software may have malfunctioned.
Not an engineer, so I may be totally wrong.
"Landings are PASS/FAIL.
"95% successful landing" for a high-speed impact smashed lander is ridiculous.
Do or do not, there is no 95%."
That's not the 95%. It's 95% of the mission that is successful - probably meaning that over time 95% of the mission's science goals will be met. A very capable orbiter operating for more than a year gives a lot more data than a short-lived lander and rover. So in those terms 95% is pretty reasonable.
Do or do not, but if you do and things don't work out as planned, don't be afraid to claim a reasonable level of success.
Chandrayaan-2 is done with 100% success for orbiter science and 95% success for landing technology
Noah Petro, LRO’s project scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, said that the orbiter is due to fly over the Vikram landing site Tuesday, Sept. 17.https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/09/12/nasa-lunar-orbiter-to-image-chandrayaan-2-landing-site-next-week/
“Per NASA policy, all LRO data are publicly available,” Petro wrote in an email. “NASA will share any before and after flyover imagery of the area around the targeted Chandrayaan 2 Vikram lander landing site to support analysis by the Indian Space Research Organization.”
Why even have 2 distinct phases of Rough & Fine in the first place?Consider this timeline.
(D) Fine braking is only 2x800 N engines in throttle mode to come to final hovering, landing spot selection and landing (with one more engine on -- or only one?).
These are braking thrusters; there is a seperate attitude system which keeps the lander oriented. The 2 thrusters are in a line which passes the center of mass, just like for example the RD180 works.
(D) Fine braking is only 2x800 N engines in throttle mode to come to final hovering, landing spot selection and landing (with one more engine on -- or only one?).
How would you keep something from tumbling with only 2 thrusters? Wouldn't you need at least 3 to form a plane?
https://www.indiatoday.in/science/story/chandrayaan-2-vikram-landing-somersault-isro-exlusive-1598882-2019-09-13?fbclid=IwAR1Oi-CXDaVhmhWqANSnG_kpGAtLrU7fH_JYTPXUCDjhc8c-5VpjoJdrWXkI don't think this analysis is good enough.
This was clearly visible in the final readings sent by Vikram -- at 11 minutes and 28 seconds after beginning its descent, Vikram's vertical velocity (the speed with which it was descending on to the Moon) was 42.9 metres per second. A minute and a half later, the speed dramatically increased to 58.9 metres per second.
LRO will get an image on the 17th:QuoteNoah Petro, LRO’s project scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center, said that the orbiter is due to fly over the Vikram landing site Tuesday, Sept. 17.https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/09/12/nasa-lunar-orbiter-to-image-chandrayaan-2-landing-site-next-week/
“Per NASA policy, all LRO data are publicly available,” Petro wrote in an email. “NASA will share any before and after flyover imagery of the area around the targeted Chandrayaan 2 Vikram lander landing site to support analysis by the Indian Space Research Organization.”
ISRO claims that they had orbiter roughly around the same spot as the lander (infact its orbit was modified for just that via last unplanned maneuver) during its last decent phase. Also it is supposed to be over the same spot every 3 days. Additionally it is supposed to have the best camera (with 0.3 meters resolution) in orbit around the moon. Yet, it is going to rely on LRO for before and after pictures! Sounds weird to me. Additionally what beats me is complete lack of any major picture so far from the mission. I hope all is ok with orbiter as well ?
But the success score for a first landing attempt on another celestial body is not binary.
Are you talking about touch-down or about landing sequence?But the success score for a first landing attempt on another celestial body is not binary.
Space landings are binary.
ISRO claims that they had orbiter roughly around the same spot as the lander (infact its orbit was modified for just that via last unplanned maneuver) during its last decent phase. Also it is supposed to be over the same spot every 3 days. Additionally it is supposed to have the best camera (with 0.3 meters resolution) in orbit around the moon. Yet, it is going to rely on LRO for before and after pictures! Sounds weird to me. Additionally what beats me is complete lack of any major picture so far from the mission. I hope all is ok with orbiter as well ?
It's just ISRO doesn't release the pictures on time, that's it.
I remember the first Chandrayaan in 2008. They had a small impactor - MIP. After impact, they did publish 2 pictures, but that was everything. Everyone wanted to see more pics or the landing video, and ISRO refused to release it.
And it was horrible back in 2007, 2008 and the first half of 2009, before LRO. India, Japan and China all explored the moon, and they didn't publish their photos on time.
That's why it's important to have Western missions to the Moon. Not just Western, but American. Because I'm European and ESA is as bad as China when it comes to timely release of photos.
Check these tweets out around measurement of Orbiter's orbit. Seems to be decaying. Hopefully on purpose!NASA Horizons official data (https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons_batch.cgi?batch=1&MAKE_EPHEM=%27YES%27&TABLE_TYPE=%27VECTORS%27&OUT_UNITS=%27KM-S%27&REF_SYSTEM=%27J2000%27&VEC_LABELS=%27YES%27&CSV_FORMAT=%27YES%27&OBJ_DATA=%27YES%27&VEC_TABLE=%273%27&STEP_SIZE=%271m%27&START_TIME=%272019-9-20%2000:00%27&STOP_TIME=%272019-Sep-22%2005:45%27&COMMAND=%27-152%27&CENTER=%27@301%27):
https://twitter.com/df2mz?lang=en
Thank you for standing by us. We will continue to keep going forward — propelled by the hopes and dreams of Indians across the world!
But a source said an internal ISRO committee, constituted to go into the likely reasons for the failure in making the soft-landing, was likely to submit its findings “very soon”, possibly within the next couple of days. The source said the committee had met a few times and almost finalised its conclusions.
“The report is expected to be made public in a few days after going through the proper channels,” the source said.
I don't know yet how far it extends south of there, but there might be some hope of refining the impact point with them. All other images I have seen are north of there, ending in Malapert.
Are all of the LRO (raw) images somewhere public to see? Or do they only release specific images whenever they want?
This (http://target.lroc.asu.edu/fcgi-bin/fprovweb.exe?_xtype=text/html&lon=-39.40&lat=-89.76&cmd=include+%22lroc_test_extract_data_at_ll.msh%22)should be a direct link to images available for landing site 89.76S, 39.40W, this (https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/?extent=-125.6506017,-87.8288423,53.5759686,-87.0785772&camera=25713.706287137262,-18707.700816862245,-1849633.2937435876,6.2831853071795845,-1.5707963267948966,0&proj=22&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLrc0A)a link to a 3d overview of the area and this (https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/query?extent=-111.3695103,-89.5756107,111.4399862,-89.5566724&proj=17&features=-43.02135618,-89.84115010,-6.06069996,-89.85307338,37.05516441,-89.89229622,50.53664039,-89.95475549,-69.29322925,-89.93896601,-69.20617876,-89.87797455,-43.02135618,-89.84115010&selected=0&query=95&layers=NrBsFYBoAZIRnpEoAsjZwLrc0A)a south-polar projection of the area with list of available pictures.Are all of the LRO (raw) images somewhere public to see? Or do they only release specific images whenever they want?
Go here:
https://quickmap.lroc.asu.edu/
Interesting news article ...
#Chandrayaan2 Orbiter continues to perform scheduled science experiments to complete satisfaction. More details on https://bit.ly/2kUiM06
Meanwhile, the National committee of academicians and ISRO experts is analysing the cause of communication loss with #VikramLander
- All Payloads of orbiter are powered.
- Initial trials for orbiter Payloads are completed successfully.
- Performance of all orbiter Payloads is satisfactory.
- Orbiter continues to perform scheduled science experiments to complete satisfaction.
- National level committee consisting of academicians and ISRO experts are analyzing the cause of communication loss with lander.
I made an estimate of the impact site.What about this post?
Landing site
70.90267°S 22.78110°E
Well, we already know the impact point. It's called "Jawahar Point" (or "Jawahar Sthal" in Hindi), named after the first Prime Minister of India- Jawahar Lal Nehru.https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1993522#msg1993522
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawahar_Point
It's located at 89.76°S, 39.40°W, a point that is merely 7.278 km (4.52 miles) away from the South Pole in the North-East direction of the Shackleton Crater. https://bit.ly/2mjY5Lv
I made an estimate of the impact site.What about this post?
Landing site
70.90267°S 22.78110°EQuoteWell, we already know the impact point. It's called "Jawahar Point" (or "Jawahar Sthal" in Hindi), named after the first Prime Minister of India- Jawahar Lal Nehru.https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20324.msg1993522#msg1993522
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawahar_Point
It's located at 89.76°S, 39.40°W, a point that is merely 7.278 km (4.52 miles) away from the South Pole in the North-East direction of the Shackleton Crater. https://bit.ly/2mjY5Lv
I made an estimate of the impact site.
Landing site
70.90267°S 22.78110°E
Space Technology is not "Rocket Science"
You are surprised with the title, isn't it? But contrary to popular beliefs, simplicity is the hall Mark of space technology, including "Rocket Science". Space Technology may be based on complex scientific knowledge and principles. But reliability is the essence of space technology. If your scooter tyre gets punctured on road, you can bring a mechanic to repair it and get going. But if something wrong happens to spacecraft, rockets - You just have to forget it.
Near 100 percent reliability is the crying need of space science and technology. Our life experience tells, simpler the person, more reliable he is. Similarly simpler the technology, more reliable it is. Technology should be simple to understand, simple to explain, matetial should be easy ro source, easy to manufacture, operate and maintain, and preferably cheap. When you put these attributes together, you get space technology. I personally believe simplicity in the product is the mark of genius. Sharper you are, easier for you to explain even the complex subjects in layman's language. Complex way of doing things, complex way of explaining or describing things are, more often than not, signs of lesser mortals.
Once you send machines to space, you cannot access it in person to carry out corrective measures. You must be able to imagine all possible behaviours of spacecraft in space, in harsh and unforgiving environment. So we have to test it in all possible imaginable conditions. We should test it in the sequence in which we fly to space. It has to survive harsh vibration tests, similar to the one you experience when the rocket takes of. We should test the space hardware prior to launch, in high vacuum, extreme temperatures it is going to experience. Imagination is the key. If you cannot imagine a situation of failure, you cannot make a provision to recover from anomalies in future. So the development need not be hurried through. Please remember, for reproducing a rat, it takes gestation period of 23 days. Gestation period of human being is 9 months. And you see the importance of gestation period. It should be well thought of, well debated, tested and simulated for worst and best possible cases of imagination. So when space hardware fails, more often than not, it failed in a failure condition which we could not imagine. Usually hardware never fails, but engineers behind it fail. But we should not be disheartened with failure, but take it as a learning experience. Just like a child falls and gets up and learns walking upright.
Reliability of a product is a function of knowledge and skills of people behind it. So most important component of space industry are its people. And it is the solemn duty of managers to treat employees as valuable assets. Bossy behaviours are absolute No No. Rather managers should behave as custodians of valuable assets. It is not enough to keep the ornaments in safety. Occasionally they have to be polished to keep their lustre. So training, upgradation of knowledge have to be given great emphasis along with work environment. Success or failures of space agencies are as good as their employees and leaders.
Culture and ethics are integral part of any successful organisation or institution. These two attributes, carried forward from one generation to another, are beautifully defined by Sanskrit word "Sanskar", roughly meaning value system. It is your "sanskar" which prevents you from doing wrong things, prevents you from betraying your mother land, helps you exhibit the rare spine to tell your boss what is right, what is wrong. Highest reliability and success of space technology is enhanced by practising right kind of "sanskar". When you start compromising with "sanskar", downhill slide of the institution begins. Initially it may be imperceptible, encouraging you to compromise further on this priceless asset. But with time, the slide picks up momentum, reaching a point of no return.
Leadership determines the backbone of an institution. All successful institutions have one thing in common: they choose a leader who built some thing new, chosen an untrodden path, building a new one. You become a complete leader when you pass through the stages of being ignored and ridiculed for your new ideas, grudgingly accepted when you prove your point by adding value to your institution and society at large and finally admired for what you built and what you are. Leaders inspire, they do not manage. When you see a sudden spurt in emphasis on adhering to rules, sudden increase in paper work, frequent meetings, unwinding discussions, you surely know leadership is becoming rare material in your institution. Institutions do not evolve with time as they stop innovating. Ultimately, they become living fossil, footnote in history.
When faced with spectre of failure, I take inspiration from medical professionals. You will see they are not much interested in post mortem report of the deceased, but exhibit more interest in understanding and deciphering the maze of medical reports and history. It is important to know what ails you, but more important is to understand how you contracted the disease in first place. You learn the most valuable lesson: prevention is better than cure. No point in crying when things go wrong.
One of Sivan’s first decisions as the new chairman of ISRO, in mid-2018, had been to demote Misra from directorship of the SAC to being the chairman’s advisor, a role that carries no executive authority. Speculation was rife at the time that the decision had been motivated by reasons other than professional conduct – because Misra was opposed to privatisation of the Indian spaceflight programme, because the controversial GSAT-11 mission had become stalled or because of internal politics.
After Misra’s transfer, many scientists from around India penned a letter to the President of India asking him to intervene, although such intervention never came to be.
In his somewhat rambling Facebook post, Misra called attention to ISRO’s top-down working culture and inadequate leadership, particularly in the face of Chandrayaan 2 having failed to execute its surface mission because the lander crashed on the Moon’s surface instead of touching down.
Around the same time Misra’s post was published, Sivan announced that Chandrayaan 2 had in fact completed 98% of its mission – a surprising claim considering one half of the mission hadn’t been executed and the scientific mission of the other half – the lunar orbiter – has only just begun its minimum lifetime of one year. Sivan had announced shortly after the lander failure on September 7 that the mission was a 95% success, itself a strongly contested number.
I'm sure we are all more interested in the impact site, and it will be added when we know where it is. Is there a reason to think the lander fell south of the target rather than north?Because according to live video and image:
Former SAC director Tapan Misra had this to say: https://www.facebook.com/tapan.misra.9/posts/10216052091161598QuoteSpace Technology is not "Rocket Science"
You are surprised with the title, isn't it? But contrary to popular beliefs, simplicity is the hall Mark of space technology, including "Rocket Science". Space Technology may be based on complex scientific knowledge and principles. But reliability is the essence of space technology. If your scooter tyre gets punctured on road, you can bring a mechanic to repair it and get going. But if something wrong happens to spacecraft, rockets - You just have to forget it.
Near 100 percent reliability is the crying need of space science and technology. Our life experience tells, simpler the person, more reliable he is. Similarly simpler the technology, more reliable it is. Technology should be simple to understand, simple to explain, matetial should be easy ro source, easy to manufacture, operate and maintain, and preferably cheap. When you put these attributes together, you get space technology. I personally believe simplicity in the product is the mark of genius. Sharper you are, easier for you to explain even the complex subjects in layman's language. Complex way of doing things, complex way of explaining or describing things are, more often than not, signs of lesser mortals.
Once you send machines to space, you cannot access it in person to carry out corrective measures. You must be able to imagine all possible behaviours of spacecraft in space, in harsh and unforgiving environment. So we have to test it in all possible imaginable conditions. We should test it in the sequence in which we fly to space. It has to survive harsh vibration tests, similar to the one you experience when the rocket takes of. We should test the space hardware prior to launch, in high vacuum, extreme temperatures it is going to experience. Imagination is the key. If you cannot imagine a situation of failure, you cannot make a provision to recover from anomalies in future. So the development need not be hurried through. Please remember, for reproducing a rat, it takes gestation period of 23 days. Gestation period of human being is 9 months. And you see the importance of gestation period. It should be well thought of, well debated, tested and simulated for worst and best possible cases of imagination. So when space hardware fails, more often than not, it failed in a failure condition which we could not imagine. Usually hardware never fails, but engineers behind it fail. But we should not be disheartened with failure, but take it as a learning experience. Just like a child falls and gets up and learns walking upright.
Reliability of a product is a function of knowledge and skills of people behind it. So most important component of space industry are its people. And it is the solemn duty of managers to treat employees as valuable assets. Bossy behaviours are absolute No No. Rather managers should behave as custodians of valuable assets. It is not enough to keep the ornaments in safety. Occasionally they have to be polished to keep their lustre. So training, upgradation of knowledge have to be given great emphasis along with work environment. Success or failures of space agencies are as good as their employees and leaders.
Culture and ethics are integral part of any successful organisation or institution. These two attributes, carried forward from one generation to another, are beautifully defined by Sanskrit word "Sanskar", roughly meaning value system. It is your "sanskar" which prevents you from doing wrong things, prevents you from betraying your mother land, helps you exhibit the rare spine to tell your boss what is right, what is wrong. Highest reliability and success of space technology is enhanced by practising right kind of "sanskar". When you start compromising with "sanskar", downhill slide of the institution begins. Initially it may be imperceptible, encouraging you to compromise further on this priceless asset. But with time, the slide picks up momentum, reaching a point of no return.
Leadership determines the backbone of an institution. All successful institutions have one thing in common: they choose a leader who built some thing new, chosen an untrodden path, building a new one. You become a complete leader when you pass through the stages of being ignored and ridiculed for your new ideas, grudgingly accepted when you prove your point by adding value to your institution and society at large and finally admired for what you built and what you are. Leaders inspire, they do not manage. When you see a sudden spurt in emphasis on adhering to rules, sudden increase in paper work, frequent meetings, unwinding discussions, you surely know leadership is becoming rare material in your institution. Institutions do not evolve with time as they stop innovating. Ultimately, they become living fossil, footnote in history.
When faced with spectre of failure, I take inspiration from medical professionals. You will see they are not much interested in post mortem report of the deceased, but exhibit more interest in understanding and deciphering the maze of medical reports and history. It is important to know what ails you, but more important is to understand how you contracted the disease in first place. You learn the most valuable lesson: prevention is better than cure. No point in crying when things go wrong.
A bit of background and context about Tapan Misra, former SAC director: https://thewire.in/space/senior-isro-scientist-criticises-sivans-approach-after-moon-mission-setbackQuoteOne of Sivan’s first decisions as the new chairman of ISRO, in mid-2018, had been to demote Misra from directorship of the SAC to being the chairman’s advisor, a role that carries no executive authority. Speculation was rife at the time that the decision had been motivated by reasons other than professional conduct – because Misra was opposed to privatisation of the Indian spaceflight programme, because the controversial GSAT-11 mission had become stalled or because of internal politics.
After Misra’s transfer, many scientists from around India penned a letter to the President of India asking him to intervene, although such intervention never came to be.
In his somewhat rambling Facebook post, Misra called attention to ISRO’s top-down working culture and inadequate leadership, particularly in the face of Chandrayaan 2 having failed to execute its surface mission because the lander crashed on the Moon’s surface instead of touching down.
Around the same time Misra’s post was published, Sivan announced that Chandrayaan 2 had in fact completed 98% of its mission – a surprising claim considering one half of the mission hadn’t been executed and the scientific mission of the other half – the lunar orbiter – has only just begun its minimum lifetime of one year. Sivan had announced shortly after the lander failure on September 7 that the mission was a 95% success, itself a strongly contested number.
What are the next day light pass times over the landing site for LRO and CY2 please?
Tried comparing the latest pic of the landing site from LRO with the one we saw on MOX during the livestream to get an idea of how the lighting conditions differ. For what it's worth, the area is just illuminated enough that even if we were to spot a 2 x 2 pixel lander, we're going to have a hard time distinguishing it from boulders (unless ofcourse if ISRO provides us the coordinates). Here's some objects that I casually spotted on my phone, all within the radius of 1 km.
Note this mosaic is quite large (28314 pixels by 57851 lines) with approximately 900 million illuminated pixels (1.25 meter pixels)I don't think the lander is distinguishible from sand at 1.25 m/pixel. But LRO allows up to 0.5 m/pixel resolution ("somebody says" up to 0.30, but I can't find detailed optics data for the LROC).
We note that it was dusk when the landing area was imaged and thus large shadows covered much of the terrain, perhaps the Vikram lander is hiding in a shadow. The lighting will be favorable when LRO passes over the site in October and LROC will attempt to image the lander at that time.https://www.lroc.asu.edu/posts/1128
Moon rotates in 27.321661 days (27 d 7 h 43 min 11.6 s) siderialThe spacecraft flies twice over the site for 27.3 days, once in the dark, once in the light.
LRO last 17 sep 2019 7:50 UTC + 27.32
Ch2 last 6 sep 2019 cca 20:30 UTC + 27.32
Terminator (interface of light and shadow) rotates synodic 29.530 days
The spacecraft flies twice over the site for 27.3 days,I think it should be "every".
The spacecraft flies twice over the site for 27.3 days,I think it should be "every".
Does it exist any site showing the local moon time at a specific coordinate on the Moon?
I found lunarclock.org, but I don't understand it, it just says "on the Moon it's time xx:xx"... but where on the moon?!?
The lunar month is 27.3 days on the average and every month varies from this value. Therefore the claimed period for a spacecraft passing over the landing site cannot be accurately claimed to be "13,6608305 days".
Using the Suin's selenocentric colongitude - which can easily be looked up online - is a good guide the the lighting conditions at the landing site.
It does, indeed we are talking about lunar days, nights and noons, on Chandrayaan and Beresheet and whatever sites.Does it exist any site showing the local moon time at a specific coordinate on the Moon?
I found lunarclock.org, but I don't understand it, it just says "on the Moon it's time xx:xx"... but where on the moon?!?
Moon time does not exist.
It does, indeed we are talking about lunar days, nights and noons, on Chandrayaan and Beresheet and whatever sites.Does it exist any site showing the local moon time at a specific coordinate on the Moon?
I found lunarclock.org, but I don't understand it, it just says "on the Moon it's time xx:xx"... but where on the moon?!?
Moon time does not exist.
But calculating it is not trivial, as a day lasts 27.3 Earth-days.
If a lunar time calculator does not exist yet, I can write it, but I need to understand some things before; for example:
does Moon have a reference meridian to be used for "Moon UTC"?
how is the Moon phase expressed in figures?
how does libration would affect these calculations?
That's why I was looking for a readymade solution.
But LRO allows up to 0.5 m/pixel resolution ("somebody says" up to 0.30, but I can't find detailed optics data for the LROC).https://ode.rsl.wustl.edu/moon/pagehelp/quickstartguide/index.html?lroc_cdrnac.htm
For me,This looks the closest to a lander.Looks as if it has tipped over and fallen onto it's side.
But,All other boulders look the same and cast long shadows.
Also,Is it safe to say that there are no new craters?
Both are conical in shape and do not appear to be natural rocks/feature on moon.
not from orbit, this is an optical illusion only happening on surface (and it's the basis of moon hoax conspiracy theories).Both are conical in shape and do not appear to be natural rocks/feature on moon.
I think you are incorrectly interpreting the long shadows as meaning the objects are conical! A round object at low sun angle can produce a conical shaped shadow.
Are the "before" and "after" images compared manually, surely there must be some image processing s/w's for doing this automatically?
(https://discourse-data.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/optimized/3X/8/6/86a89da4a84b66dbd0e611664575f9d438ad54f2_2_577x750.png)Note: this is NOT the resolution of currently available image: this image si intended to show how Vikram compare to LM in size.
In short: Vikram is not visible in the currently available image.It would not be resolved, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be detectable, especially if using comparison to pre-landing images. Vikram is undoubtedly much more reflective than the typical lunar surface, and the low sun angle means the shadow would most likely be significantly larger. If there were a hard impact, or rockets firing near the surface, the disturbed area would also likely be several times larger than the lander itself, as seen in the Beresheet images.
Vikram has metal in it - lunar regolith not so much.- Synthetic Aperture Radar.
Is there any way to look for metal?
Those are very useful. Thanks.
This link shows what the Beresheet crash site looked like in an LRO image:
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/lro-beresheet-impact-site-spotted (https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2019/lro-beresheet-impact-site-spotted)
There is no obvious crater or remnant of the spacecraft. Going out on a limb, I will suggest that the Chandrayaan 2 image interpreted as 'the lander intact but on its side' might have been a misinterpretation of small black marks in the middle of the impact site, as we see at Beresheet's site. What really shows up in the LRO image is the bright ejecta around the impact site. That is probably what we will see in the Vikram images from LRO, but albedo markings like that show up best when the sun is higher in the sky. I don't see anything in the new image to suggest where the impact is, so we may need to wait perhaps 2 months until the lighting for LRO is similar to that in the pre-impact LRO image.
Vikram has metal in it - lunar regolith not so much.
Is there any way to look for metal?
the terminator passes through the site 70.90267°S 22.78110°Eyes
4 Oct 2019 18:00 UTC
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Earth
[???]http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Earth?di=[/img]
Test page for calculating local time on Moon:No, there were some bugs...
http://win98.altervista.org/space/exploration/moon/provalib.html
Are results right?
I doubt if it will serve any purpose now. Still...surely?
CH2 Orbiter will cover the landing site between 9th and 10th Oct with good Sunlight.
LRO will cover the Landing Site between 16th and 17th Oct
Where/how can I get numerical data corresponding to these images?
A. 3rd Oct Night situation: LRO covering the Spot in night.
B. Next CH2 Orbiter Daytime coverage : 9th Oct
C. Next LRO Daytime Coverage :16th Oct
^^^No web interface? I an looking at Horizons (https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi?s_target=1#top)and Spice (https://wgc.jpl.nasa.gov:8443/webgeocalc/)but with no luck up to now.
Using the analysis software STK ( Systems Tool Kit ).
I tried some times ago, but it does not work because it does not take into account Moon revolution.
Use horizons to generate x,y,z
...S^3 laid out the cards on the table.
A. 3rd Oct Night situation: LRO covering the Spot in night.
B. Next CH2 Orbiter Daytime coverage : 9th Oct
C. Next LRO Daytime Coverage :16th Oct
OK.I found a method to retrieve from NASA Horizons a file listing distance of LRO from any point on Moon surface; this (https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons_batch.cgi?batch=1&MAKE_EPHEM=%27YES%27&TABLE_TYPE=%27VECTORS%27&OUT_UNITS=%27KM-S%27&REF_SYSTEM=%27J2000%27&VEC_LABELS=%27YES%27&CSV_FORMAT=%27YES%27&OBJ_DATA=%27YES%27&VEC_TABLE=%273%27&STEP_SIZE=%271h%27&START_TIME=%272019-10-12%2010:00%27&STOP_TIME=%272019-10-17%2023:00%27&COMMAND=%27-85%27&CENTER=%27coord@301%27&COORD_TYPE=%27GEODETIC%27&SITE_COORD=%2722.78110,-70.90267,0%27)is the URL for Vikram landing site.
LRO 14th or 16th?
We'll wait.
Maybe I'm wrong.
CH2 orbiter flight over the site is not a way to verify.
...yes
You can see 136 and 119 km distance from Vikram landing site on oct-14 - 02:00 and oct-15 - 19:00, which in India translate into oct-14 - 07:00 and oct-16 - 00:00
(note: these are distances from landing site, not altitudes over surface).
14th or 16th?Beware of sign: it's southern emisphere, hence Lat=-70.
and someone here mentions the northern coordinates?Your calculations and chart reveal you used northern coordinates.
Thanks
Your calculations and chart reveal you used northern coordinates.
...
I'm glad it got clear.
But I would wait for the 14th, because even on the LRO flight on 17 September horizons gives time 19:33 and here was published 07:50.
And just to repeat a previous question - why do they need an abrupt transition from coarse/rough braking deceleration to fine braking deceleration? Is that how everybody else does it?
Why can't they just refine it gradually all along the way? I'm only saying that because it seemed like the trajectory was decent up until the point where they transitioned from coarse/rough braking to fine braking.
If nature doesn't work that way, then why should the software work that way?
I wonder whether there will be any effort to try and improve those 800kN engines, so that they work better or more reliably.
It seems like Chandrayaan-2 was the very first mission these engines were used on.
And just to repeat a previous question - why do they need an abrupt transition from coarse/rough braking deceleration to fine braking deceleration? Is that how everybody else does it?
Why can't they just refine it gradually all along the way? I'm only saying that because it seemed like the trajectory was decent up until the point where they transitioned from coarse/rough braking to fine braking.
If nature doesn't work that way, then why should the software work that way?
...T.S Subramanian's article in Frontline a few weeks ago was the closest,
with Raj Chengappa's article in India Today.
In response to the generic question at the end of your post: they'd need infinite resolution throttling on the engines, and RCS engines are not necessarily throttleable. Making them throttleable would imply a reliability hit.
Perhaps it is worth pointing out here that NASA as an agency is not involved. This is work done by the LRO camera team based at Arizona State University. They compare new images with older images taken with similar lighting. I have done similar work - once carefully aligned, the images can be viewed alternately (like the Blink Comparator used to discover Pluto) and any change flickers on and off. This was the method used to find the Chang'e 1 impact site and debris and it was something very similar that was used to find the Beresheet debris and similar things from LADEE and GRAIL. The spacecraft would span a couple of pixels (even if the spacecraft was exactly the size of a pixel, it's not likely it would all fall within one pixel, more likely it would fall between pixels and contribute signal to several), its shadow would be much bigger with low angle lighting, and any debris thrown out by the impact would cover a larger area. LRO is perfectly capable of finding the spacecraft if the image is looking at the right place and it's not lost in shadow.
Perhaps it is worth pointing out here that NASA as an agency is not involved. This is work done by the LRO camera team based at Arizona State University. They compare new images with older images taken with similar lighting. I have done similar work - once carefully aligned, the images can be viewed alternately (like the Blink Comparator used to discover Pluto) and any change flickers on and off. This was the method used to find the Chang'e 1 impact site and debris and it was something very similar that was used to find the Beresheet debris and similar things from LADEE and GRAIL. The spacecraft would span a couple of pixels (even if the spacecraft was exactly the size of a pixel, it's not likely it would all fall within one pixel, more likely it would fall between pixels and contribute signal to several), its shadow would be much bigger with low angle lighting, and any debris thrown out by the impact would cover a larger area. LRO is perfectly capable of finding the spacecraft if the image is looking at the right place and it's not lost in shadow.
So is this kind of image comparison entirely done by eye? I would have thought that by now they'd be doing this using some AI image-processing algorithm. When even CAT-scans and MRIs are diagnosed using AI these days, it seems like a similar approach would be ideal for searching the heavens for spacecraft.
Hadn't seen this information before. If the lander was going slower than expected, that might explain why the lander turned upside down. A faulty algorithm might try to increase the lander speed to the expected value!This indicates they have guessed where the vikram lander crashed so why isn't LRO not able to image the site ? I also wonder why Chandrayaan2 hasn't imaged the site at all?
.....
“Due to this deviation, the initial conditions at the start of the fine braking phase were beyond the designed parameters. As a result, Vikram hard landed within 500 metres of the designated landing site.”
Hadn't seen this information before. If the lander was going slower than expected, that might explain why the lander turned upside down. A faulty algorithm might try to increase the lander speed to the expected value!If the motors have a limited throttle range and non-zero startup and shutdown times as well as startup transient (i.e. are real-life motors and not spherical-cow thrusters), you'd want your algorithm to be trying to minimise startups and shutdowns and instead try and 'ride the throttle' within that controllable range as far down as possible. Faced with a slow entry, that algorithm would try and avoid starting any motors until as late as possible. That would leave any residual rotational velocity free to start spinning the lander, at which point a motor would need to kick in and correct it. If that motor has a minimum impulse it can impart greater than that needed to correct that spin (because the assumption is you could have two motors in opposition continuously thrusting and just be throttling them slightly- similar to how it is easier to precisely control the speed of a car between 20-22 MPH than it is between 0-2 MPH) it then spins the lander the opposite way, the opposite motor then needs to fire, and all the while the lander is trying not to use too much impulse to avoid flying back up again.
Computers are very stupid, very fast. Machine Learning is lots of stupid all at the same time.Perhaps it is worth pointing out here that NASA as an agency is not involved. This is work done by the LRO camera team based at Arizona State University. They compare new images with older images taken with similar lighting. I have done similar work - once carefully aligned, the images can be viewed alternately (like the Blink Comparator used to discover Pluto) and any change flickers on and off. This was the method used to find the Chang'e 1 impact site and debris and it was something very similar that was used to find the Beresheet debris and similar things from LADEE and GRAIL. The spacecraft would span a couple of pixels (even if the spacecraft was exactly the size of a pixel, it's not likely it would all fall within one pixel, more likely it would fall between pixels and contribute signal to several), its shadow would be much bigger with low angle lighting, and any debris thrown out by the impact would cover a larger area. LRO is perfectly capable of finding the spacecraft if the image is looking at the right place and it's not lost in shadow.
So is this kind of image comparison entirely done by eye? I would have thought that by now they'd be doing this using some AI image-processing algorithm. When even CAT-scans and MRIs are diagnosed using AI these days, it seems like a similar approach would be ideal for searching the heavens for spacecraft.
Less facetiously: you need a dataset to train your neural network on, and there is not a large collection of lunar orbit images of crashed Indian landers to train your NN what to look for.I believe they just look at reflectance change , not specifically for lander make. Project scientist of LRO has stated that they used "a ratio of an image captured prior to the landing attempt to the one acquired on October 14" to detect the lander. He also states that "this approach is used for finding new meteorite impacts on the Moon that also helped locate the recent Beresheet" May be NN can detect the reflectance change and the LRO team can check whether the reflectance is of lander or crater.
I think nobody has found neither imaged anything, nor ISRO neither LRO, just because they have no "magic cameras" which allow imaging a 1-meter-wide object at such a resolution they can distinguish that it landed on its side.Hadn't seen this information before. If the lander was going slower than expected, that might explain why the lander turned upside down. A faulty algorithm might try to increase the lander speed to the expected value!This indicates they have guessed where the vikram lander crashed so why isn't LRO not able to image the site ? I also wonder why Chandrayaan2 hasn't imaged the site at all?
.....
“Due to this deviation, the initial conditions at the start of the fine braking phase were beyond the designed parameters. As a result, Vikram hard landed within 500 metres of the designated landing site.”
From the ISRO websiteExact optical characteristics of Chandrayaan orbiter cannot be found so we can't even calculate the maximum resolution it can achieve depending on altitude.
This indicates they have guessed where the vikram lander crashed so why isn't LRO not able to image the site ? I also wonder why Chandrayaan2 hasn't imaged the site at all?
Orbiter High Resolution Camera (OHRC)
OHRC provides high-resolution images of the landing site — ensuring the Lander's safe touchdown by detecting any craters or boulders prior to separation. The images it captures, taken from two different look angles, serve dual purposes. Firstly, they are used to generate DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) of the landing site. Secondly, they are used for scientific research, post-lander separation. OHRC's images will be captured over the course of two orbits, covering an area of 12 km x 3 km with a ground resolution of 0.32 m.
Yes, this is all I was able to find, too. But by "exact optical characteristics" I mean Field Of View (FOV) in degrees and sensor width in pixel, so as to be able to determine actual ground resolution depending on altitude.From the ISRO websiteExact optical characteristics of Chandrayaan orbiter cannot be found so we can't even calculate the maximum resolution it can achieve depending on altitude.
This indicates they have guessed where the vikram lander crashed so why isn't LRO not able to image the site ? I also wonder why Chandrayaan2 hasn't imaged the site at all?QuoteOrbiter High Resolution Camera (OHRC)
OHRC provides high-resolution images of the landing site — ensuring the Lander's safe touchdown by detecting any craters or boulders prior to separation. The images it captures, taken from two different look angles, serve dual purposes. Firstly, they are used to generate DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) of the landing site. Secondly, they are used for scientific research, post-lander separation. OHRC's images will be captured over the course of two orbits, covering an area of 12 km x 3 km with a ground resolution of 0.32 m.
Yes, this is all I was able to find, too. But by "exact optical characteristics" I mean Field Of View (FOV) in degrees and sensor width in pixel, so as to be able to determine actual ground resolution depending on altitude.For ground resolution we just need IFOV so we solve for IFOV
2*100*1000 *Tan[(IFOV)/2]=0.32and get 3.2 micro radian.
This was ISRO's response:Now even ISRO chief Dr.Sivan has started claiming Chandrayaan2 first located the debris! Its funny that ISRO tried communicating with debris through IDSN (Indian Deep Space Network) ;D and even requested NASA to contact debris through DSN ;D for weeks! This is really embarrassing. He should just keep mum and concentrate on future missions.
On being contacted to seek Isro's reply on Shan's findings, Isro scientific secretary Uma Maheswaran told TOI, "I have nothing to comment on it as Isro had already found Vikram. We had already declared on our website three days after the landing date that 'Vikram has been found'."
I think that's a pretty poor response from ISRO. They should have published the crash location and image as soon as they found it. The least they could do now is publish their image.
Someone could explain me, how did the debris reach the north of the impact site?Seems so. May be just before crashing, the portion facing North side exploded which is why most of the debris on North side are far away. The furthest one is ~2982 m away! A simple calculation shows minimum velocity to reach that distance from elevation of 834m is ~218.268 kmph (60.6312 m/sec) :o
Exploded Lander?
This was ISRO's response:Now even ISRO chief Dr.Sivan has started claiming Chandrayaan2 first located the debris! Its funny that ISRO tried communicating with debris through IDSN (Indian Deep Space Network) ;D and even requested NASA to contact debris through DSN ;D for weeks! This is really embarrassing. He should just keep mum and concentrate on future missions.
On being contacted to seek Isro's reply on Shan's findings, Isro scientific secretary Uma Maheswaran told TOI, "I have nothing to comment on it as Isro had already found Vikram. We had already declared on our website three days after the landing date that 'Vikram has been found'."
I think that's a pretty poor response from ISRO. They should have published the crash location and image as soon as they found it. The least they could do now is publish their image.
An RTI response accessed by the Times of India has revealed that the Indian Space Research Organisation is unlikely to reveal details about why Chandrayaan-2’s Vikram Lander could not make a successful soft landing on the moon. It has been more a year since the mission was launched, and since the Chandrayaan orbiter was placed into the moon’s orbit. ISRO has traditionally made public the Failure Analysis Committee (FAC) reports of all its failed missions.
According to the TOI report, the RTI query was filed by Sathish GN, a resident of Bengaluru. Sathish had sought the details of the FAC report on the hard landing of Vikram lander. However, the RTI response states that this information cannot be divulged under Section 8(1) of the RTI Act. This section lists exemption of disclosure of information that would “prejudicially affect the sovereignty and integrity of India, the security, strategic, scientific or economic interests of the State, relation with foreign State or lead to incitement of an offence.”
A veteran scientist and former ISRO Chief said that ISRO’s decision may not be the best. “I don’t think the decision taken by ISRO is correct. ISRO has been doing a transparent job and has been a transparent organisation. Just by showing where and how it landed will not affect national security. They have given a lame excuse, that is all,” Dr G Madhavan Nair said.
Dr Nair added that even when pictures of the debris were shared by the Chennai engineer, ISRO had not made any official comment about the same.
“Our pictures and NASA’s pictures show it (Vikram lander) is disintegrated. In my opinion, ISRO is (supposed to be) perfectly and completely transparent. That culture they should maintain,” Dr Nair said.
National Security impacted by a space crash?!? ???
It was a pro forma type of reply to an RTI...First of all, thank you for the detailed civics/recent events information. I thought it deserved more than a like, especially for those of us without an intimate knowledge of Indian civics.
USN test support for Chandrayaan-2
Chandrayaan-2 is the second lunar mission of the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO). Chandrayaan-2 is currently orbiting the moon and will explore the polar regions of which this data is essential for the future US/Japanese lunar base. This test support will allow for the evaluation if data collected from Hawaii can benefit the science mission. If successful USN will seek further authorization to collect data.The test support is scheduled to be conducted for a minimum of 30 days for 2 hours each day when the moon is in view of the station.
First set of #Chandrayaan2 payload's data are publicly released for wider science use.
For details visit
https://www.isro.gov.in/update/24-dec-2020/chandrayaan-2-mission-initial-data-release
https://issdc.gov.in
https://pradan.issdc.gov.in
As reported first by TOI, Chandrayaan-3 will see major design changes compared to the previous mission, key among which is the decision to drop the fifth engine, which was added last minute on Vikram (Chandrayaan-2’s lander).
The lander for this mission will have only four engines, while the overseeing committee has also suggested a minor modification on the legs on the lander, inclusion of the laser doppler velocimeter (LDV) for better measurement of speed during landing, among other things.
The modifications being proposed on Chandrayaan-3 — which were indicators of shortcomings in Chandrayaan-2 — also include changes in software and algorithms, strengthening of the legs, and better power and communication systems.
Chandrayaan-2 detected solar proton events due to high intensity solar flares in January 2022.
When Sun is active, spectacular eruptions called solar flares occur that sometimes also spew out energetic particles (called Solar Proton Events or SPEs) into interplanetary space. Most of these are high energy protons that impact space systems and significantly increase radiation exposure to humans in space. They can cause ionisation on large scales in Earth's middle atmosphere. Many intense solar flares are accompanied by coronal mass ejections (CMEs), a powerful stream of ionised material and magnetic fields, which reach Earth a few days later, leading to geomagnetic storms and lighting up the polar sky with auroras.
Solar flares are classified according to their strength. The smallest ones are A-class, followed by B, C, M and X. Each letter represents a 10-fold increase in energy output. This means that an M class flare is ten times intense than C-class flare and 100 times intense than B-class flare. Within each letter class there is a finer scale from 1 to 9 i.e a M2 flare is twice the strength of M1 flare.
Recently, there were two M-class solar flares. One flare (M5.5) spewed out energetic particles into interplanetary space and the other flare (M1.5) was accompanied by a Coronal Mass Ejection (CME). SPE event was seen by NASA's Geostationary Operational Environmental Satellite (GOES) satellite orbiting around Earth. However, the CME event was not detected by GOES.
Chandrayaan-2 Large Area Soft X-ray Spectrometer (CLASS) on-board Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter detected SPE due to an M5.5 class solar flare that occurred on January 20, 2022 (blue curve). The red curve shows the proton counts due to SPE recorded by GOES satellite operated by NOAA.
CHACE-2 Onboard Chandrayaan-2 Orbiter makes the First Observations of the Global Distribution of Argon-40 in the Exosphere of Moon
The Chandra’s Atmospheric Composition Explorer-2 (CHACE-2), a quadrupole mass spectrometer onboard Chandrayaan-2 mission has made the first-of-its-kind observations of the global distribution of Argon-40 in the tenuous lunar exosphere. These observations provide insight on the dynamics of the lunar exospheric species, as well as on the radiogenic activities in the first few tens of meters below the lunar surface.
The CHACE-2 observations provide the diurnal and spatial variation of Ar-40 covering the equatorial and mid latitude regions of the Moon. The uniqueness of this result from Chandrayaan-2 mission lies in the fact that although Apollo-17 and LADEE missions have detected the presence of Ar-40 in the lunar exosphere, the measurements were confined to the near-equatorial region of the Moon. As there is a steep latitudinal temperature gradient of the lunar surface, it was, so far, a gap area to study the global dynamics of the lunar exospheric species, which is a temperature-driven process. In this context, the observations by CHACE-2 onboard Chandrayaan-2 orbiter on Ar-40 up to the mid-latitude regions (−60º to +60º) play a significant role to bridge the gap in the knowledge.
CHACE-2 observations reveal an increase in the number density of Ar-40 near the sunrise terminator, a decrease through the dayside, a secondary peak near sunset terminator and a night-side minima. This is the typical behaviour of a condensable gas.
It had to have a big hole in the middle for the engine/thrust.There was no hole in the descent stage, the ascent engine barely touched it; maybe what we see is the "marking" of ascent stage exhausts?
And it was as light as possible.
Jul 08, 2022
TMC-2 imaged Rocket Booster Impact on the Lunar Surface
On 4th March 2022, a spent rocket booster hit the lunar surface near the Hertzsprung crater, which is in the far side of the Moon. The impact created a double crater which is ~28m wide. Terrain Mapping Camera – 2 (TMC-2) onboard Chandrayaan-2 imaged the far side of the Moon in April 2022 and identified the impact site.
The above image shows the comparison between the regions which is imaged before impact (21st February 2022) and after impact (3rd April 2022). The yellow arrow mark indicates the new crater formed due to the impact. The spatial resolution of TMC-2 is 5m and the image is zoomed four times.
The "hole" in the descent stage is more like a pocket into which the end of the ascent stage engine bell fit.It had to have a big hole in the middle for the engine/thrust.There was no hole in the descent stage, the ascent engine barely touched it; maybe what we see is the "marking" of ascent stage exhausts?
And it was as light as possible.
Aug 07, 2022
DFRS payload onboard Chandrayaan-2 orbiter detects high density plasma in the Lunar wake region.
The Moon is believed to have a very tenuous atmosphere. Since the ionosphere derives its origin from the atmosphere the plasma density at the Moon is considered to be only a few hundred ions per cubic centimeter. Measurements made using the Dual Frequency Radio Science (DFRS) experiment onboard Chandrayaan-2 orbiter, however, have shown that Moon’s ionosphere has a plasma density of the order of 104 cm-3, in the wake region which is at least one order of magnitude more than that is present in the day side.
Chandrayaan-2, the second Indian Lunar exploration mission launched by the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) on 22 July 2019, carried several payloads, among which the DFRS was designed to study the lunar ionosphere. It uses two coherent signals at the S-band (2240 MHz) and X-band (8496 MHz) of radio frequencies, transmitted from the Chandrayaan-2 orbiter and received at the ground station at Byalalu, Bangalore to explore the lunar plasma ambiance using the radio occultation (RO) technique. Simultaneous measurements by two coherent radio signals help to mitigate the effect of the Earth’s atmosphere and any uncertainties due to various sources during the experiments. The DFRS payload was conceptualized and jointly developed by Space Physics Laboratory (SPL) of Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre, Trivandrum; UR Rao Space Centre (URSC), Bangalore; and ISRO Telemetry, Tracking, and Command Network (ISTRAC), Bangalore. For the RO observations, an algorithm to estimate the integrated electron density profile was developed at SPL and used to study the Moon’s ionosphere in the lunar wake region, a region of the Lunar ionosphere that does not directly interact with the solar wind.
A total of 12 radio occultation experiments have been conducted in campaign mode on four different occasions based on carefully selected geometry suitable for the RO measurements. Detailed analysis shows that the total electron content along the ray path in the Lunar ionosphere can be as large as 1.5 TECU (1 TECU = 1016 m-2) with the uncertainty of 0.15 TECU, in the Lunar wake region. Large electron content is also seen near lunar polar regions during solar twilight conditions. These findings are unique and first of its kind as they show substantial post-sunset enhancement in plasma density compared to the dayside values reported so far by earlier missions.
The observed large enhancements in electron density in the Lunar wake region open new dimensions in understanding the lunar dark side plasma environment. In the wake region, neither the solar radiation nor the solar wind interacts directly with the available neutral particles, but still, the plasma is getting generated. Numerical simulations of the dark side of plasma environment using a 3-dimensional Lunar Ionospheric Model (3D-LIM) developed at SPL suggest that the production of ions by charge exchange reactions may play a pivotal role in producing a significantly large plasma density in the Lunar wake region, which can sustain for a longer period. The model suggests that the dominant ions in the wake region are Ar+, and Ne+ which have a comparatively longer lifetime than the molecular ions (CO2+, and H2O+ ) that are dominant at other regions. On the other hand, fraction of the ions produced by solar radiation during the daytime is swept by solar wind, leading to reduced daytime plasma density.
These path-breaking scientific results on the Moon's ionosphere using DFRS payload onboard the Chandrayaan-2 orbiter and modeling of the physical mechanism are published in the Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society- Letter; "A study on the characteristic features of the Lunar ionosphere using dual-frequency radio science (DFRS) experiment onboard Chandrayaan-2 orbiter", Keshav R. Tripathi, R. K. Choudhary, K. M. Ambili, K. R. Bindu, R. Manikantan and Umang Parikh, DOI: 10.1093/mnrasl/slac058 (https://doi.org/10.1093/mnrasl/slac058)
Figure 1: Top left panel: Ray-tracing of radio signals in the lunar ionosphere. A1 is the point of impact factor on the given ray path, Top right panel: Comparison of observed and simulated ray-path integrated electron density for the Chandrayaan-2 orbit no. 1960 for the occultation experiment at a location inside the Lunar wake, Bottom left panel: Electron density profiles simulated using the 3D-LIM model for three different conditions (Lunar wake, Solar terminator, and local noon). The electron density is of an order of magnitude higher inside the lunar wake region, Bottom right panel: Altitude/latitude/longitude variations of electron density along the ray path as simulated by 3D-LIM. The color bar represents the electron density at different points along the radio path.
So here's my full explanation for why the Vikram Lander in Chandrayaan-2 crashed back in 2019. We still don't have much data to go on, but a few news pieces of information give us a working timeline.
It crashed because of software problems and a valve not operating properly.
The next phase was to begin fine navigation for landing, cutting the thrust and performing a 38 second 'camera coast' where the spacecraft held a specific attitude while the navigation sensors checked the terrain to figure out where the landing site was.
Unfortunately, it appears that when they actuated the throttle control valves at the fastest rate they did not close as much as expected. The result was the spacecraft had more thrust than it was supposed to.
Expected acceleration of 2.13m/s vs actual ~2.8m/s
We know the expected acceleration because we have start and end conditions for the 38s camera coast phase. The actual condition is approximated from the snippets of telemetry we saw.
During camera coast the spacecraft held steady and didn't try to fix any navigation errors, so the spacecraft built up a huge error from where it was supposed to be ~500m in space, and velocity ~25m/s. It was higher than it should be, moving slower, and further from target.
So it began to reorient to correct for this, and while I'm not 100% sure, I think it pitched forward and continued all the way though a 410 degree rotation. However, it may have rotated the other direction for all we know.
This took some time because the software limited the rotation to 10 degrees per second, in effect the rotation limits meant it was like dog chasing its tail to try and reach a desired velocity state. It quickly ran out of time and altitude.
The final telemetry came 7 seconds before impact, and it looks like the impact speed was about 140miles per hour.
You can see this in the doppler data from Cees Bassa @cgbassa - note the kink 38 seconds before the anomaly where the deceleration changes, then the acceleration as the spacecraft tries to make up lost ground, then tries to slow before hitting the surface.
So it's a combination of a valve which misperformed, software which inhibited from reacting until it was too late, and software limits which made recovery impossible. I'm not 100% sure, but all these parts now fit together into a sensible story.
All of these are fixed on CY3.