Author Topic: Fairing reuse  (Read 974545 times)

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1800 on: 10/22/2018 12:05 am »
If you are embarrassed like me about making ignorant comments on this forum then that's good but remember that
all sorts of people set themselves up as experts:
https://www.sciencealert.com/spacex-falcon-9-space-rocket-giant-piece-found-beach
Wow, that is incredibly embarrassing.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline JamesH65

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1801 on: 10/22/2018 11:45 am »
If you are embarrassed like me about making ignorant comments on this forum then that's good but remember that
all sorts of people set themselves up as experts:
https://www.sciencealert.com/spacex-falcon-9-space-rocket-giant-piece-found-beach

Wow. That 'journalist' is as thick as a plank. A thick one.

Offline intelati

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1802 on: 11/07/2018 07:04 pm »
If you are embarrassed like me about making ignorant comments on this forum then that's good but remember that
all sorts of people set themselves up as experts:
https://www.sciencealert.com/spacex-falcon-9-space-rocket-giant-piece-found-beach

Wow. That 'journalist' is as thick as a plank. A thick one.

'Giant' piece ripped to shreds

Quote
And it'll be mighty difficult if the company keeps losing huge and expensive parts.

 :o
Starships are meant to fly

Offline eeergo

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1803 on: 11/09/2018 12:41 am »
Apologies if this was posted elsewhere before, but I don't think it's unfair to post this in several places even if it was:

https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1060531349784879104
« Last Edit: 11/09/2018 12:42 am by eeergo »
-DaviD-

Offline JamesH65

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1804 on: 11/09/2018 08:56 am »
What a fantastic video. Surprising how much the fairing flexes.

Offline ugordan

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1805 on: 11/09/2018 09:02 am »
What a fantastic video. Surprising how much the fairing flexes.

Compared to an Atlas V 5xx fairing sep, this is barely any flexing. Granted, the lower end of the Atlas fairing doesn't narrow down at the sep plane like on F9 so it's natural that it'd wiggle a lot more.

Offline woods170

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1806 on: 11/09/2018 09:38 am »
What a fantastic video. Surprising how much the fairing flexes.

Nothing that wasn't already known from this video:


Offline eeergo

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1807 on: 11/09/2018 12:01 pm »
Perhaps more interesting than the fairings themselves is the external view of S2 with the stack on top, while in flight, with an extended view of the plume and definite visual proof that the "flashes" seen on the fairings' base as it drops away are indeed caused by MVac plume impingement and not any kind of manruvering at that stage.
-DaviD-

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1808 on: 11/09/2018 02:32 pm »
That video from the fairing camera is so awesome.  I drool at the idea of what other views and data SpaceX has collected.

This is a golden age of rocket entertainment, so much fun.
Wildly optimistic prediction, Superheavy recovery on IFT-4 or IFT-5

Offline photonic

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1809 on: 12/03/2018 07:04 pm »
Mr. Steven is still having bad luck:

https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1069679948103847939

Quote
Falcon fairing halves missed the net, but touched down softly in the water. Mr Steven is picking them up. Plan is to dry them out & launch again. Nothing wrong with a little swim.

It seems that Elon is giving up on the idea of catching them in mid-air, and is thinking about waterproofing them ...

Offline Swedish chef

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1810 on: 12/03/2018 07:06 pm »
Looks like SpaceX is going to try fairing reuse even if the halves hit water.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1069679948103847939
Quote
Falcon fairing halves missed the net, but touched down softly in the water. Mr Steven is picking them up. Plan is to dry them out & launch again. Nothing wrong with a little swim.

I suggested earlier that one could try to submerge the halves in de-ionised water until all the salt would wash away, or at least enough salt to make them fit for reuse.

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1811 on: 12/03/2018 07:52 pm »
Exciting that they are looking at the reuse and that they recovered both halves.  They're clearing getting them very close to where they can predict them to be.

Reuse is great, I think they can still figure out the catching.

Does Mr Steven stay stationary, or do they move along with the fairing so they can minimize any error until it's caught? I've not heard how they do the final part, but seems that they stay in 1 spot.

Seems to me that 1 half of a 2 body rendezvous situation needs to be propulsive if the other is passive.  The F9 is under thrust when landing.  A fairing is a glider and gets into a 'best I can do' situation the closer it gets to the surface.  Grab some Tesla and F9 technology and get it working on Mr Steven. 
Wildly optimistic prediction, Superheavy recovery on IFT-4 or IFT-5

Offline jpo234

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1812 on: 12/03/2018 08:16 pm »
Mr. Steven is still having bad luck:

https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1069679948103847939

Quote
Falcon fairing halves missed the net, but touched down softly in the water. Mr Steven is picking them up. Plan is to dry them out & launch again. Nothing wrong with a little swim.

It seems that Elon is giving up on the idea of catching them in mid-air, and is thinking about waterproofing them ...

Nothing new: https://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/defensie-ruimtevaart/recticel-trots-op-ruimtestunt/10016572.html

Quote
The company is already working on a successor for the black panels that it used at the Tesla launch. 'We are working on a hydrophobic version, to keep the pieces afloat when they fall into the sea. Reuse is one of the hobbies of SpaceX. '
« Last Edit: 12/04/2018 08:23 am by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1813 on: 12/03/2018 08:23 pm »
Looks like SpaceX is going to try fairing reuse even if the halves hit water.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1069679948103847939
Quote
Falcon fairing halves missed the net, but touched down softly in the water. Mr Steven is picking them up. Plan is to dry them out & launch again. Nothing wrong with a little swim.

I suggested earlier that one could try to submerge the halves in de-ionised water until all the salt would wash away, or at least enough salt to make them fit for reuse.

This was the v2.0 fairing, IIRC. I'm thinking their exterior is more hardened to salt water than the older fairings.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline Wolfram66

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1814 on: 12/03/2018 08:34 pm »
Exciting that they are looking at the reuse and that they recovered both halves.  They're clearing getting them very close to where they can predict them to be.

Reuse is great, I think they can still figure out the catching.

Does Mr Steven stay stationary, or do they move along with the fairing so they can minimize any error until it's caught? I've not heard how they do the final part, but seems that they stay in 1 spot.

Seems to me that 1 half of a 2 body rendezvous situation needs to be propulsive if the other is passive.  The F9 is under thrust when landing.  A fairing is a glider and gets into a 'best I can do' situation the closer it gets to the surface.  Grab some Tesla and F9 technology and get it working on Mr Steven.


I am not sure if they are trying to fly the fairing to the boat. That seems irrational if they are doing so. Commanding the fairing parachute to fly it's land coordinates until a certain altitude, then make it fly upwind to maximize lift so that Mr. Steven can match course and speed for final flare ... just like skydivers ... maybe Elon needs some UA Army Golden Knights to demonstrate. Heck I saw on Outrageous Acts of Science 2 guys wing suit into an open door on an aircraft ...

Offline speedevil

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1815 on: 12/03/2018 08:38 pm »
The nice thing in principle about the fairing is you can try dropping it in a representative way a few dozen times after tipping the water out, and then do an exhaustive destructive teardown on it, and be moderately sure you've got no major issues left.

It costs helicopter time, not any sort of launch, for the interesting last ten meters.

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1816 on: 12/03/2018 08:58 pm »
The nice thing in principle about the fairing is you can try dropping it in a representative way a few dozen times after tipping the water out, and then do an exhaustive destructive teardown on it, and be moderately sure you've got no major issues left.

It costs helicopter time, not any sort of launch, for the interesting last ten meters.

They don't need a helicopter if that's all they're interested in. They could do tethered drop tests into a pool.
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline speedevil

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1817 on: 12/03/2018 09:00 pm »
The nice thing in principle about the fairing is you can try dropping it in a representative way a few dozen times after tipping the water out, and then do an exhaustive destructive teardown on it, and be moderately sure you've got no major issues left.

It costs helicopter time, not any sort of launch, for the interesting last ten meters.

They don't need a helicopter if that's all they're interested in. They could do tethered drop tests into a pool.

A pool might not catch all aspects of wave action, but I largely agree.

Offline mme

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1818 on: 12/03/2018 10:24 pm »
Mr. Steven is still having bad luck:

https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1069679948103847939

Quote
Falcon fairing halves missed the net, but touched down softly in the water. Mr Steven is picking them up. Plan is to dry them out & launch again. Nothing wrong with a little swim.

It seems that Elon is giving up on the idea of catching them in mid-air, and is thinking about waterproofing them ...
The fact they think they can reuse a fairing that landed in the water in no way implies that they are giving up trying to catch them. It just means they can reuse ones that survive splashdown while they continue to figure out how to catch them.

This is the SpaceX way, make the smallest/cheapest change that will collect data and/or may allow recovery and keep iterating.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline Jcc

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Re: Fairing reuse
« Reply #1819 on: 12/03/2018 11:15 pm »
It's not yet a "fact" that they can reuse fairings that fell in the water, but may be possible if they retrieve them quickly. Perhaps they will add a coating which adds minimal weight to protect them more.

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