Author Topic: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates  (Read 600277 times)

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1440 on: 01/12/2011 02:49 am »
 Maybe the failed sensor was on the Draco in question and gave someone the mistaken idea that the thuster had failed. Not as much fun as an evil conspiracy to cover up a minor problem I realize.
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Offline starsilk

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1441 on: 01/12/2011 02:56 am »
* the only failure AT ALL on the mission was a temperature sensor that died (not a critical one, those are triple redundant) - 8:20 in the audio


*ahem* I think he means, the only failure on the vehicle.

I'm still a little curious about the kerosene disconnect and the arm that fell off the tower.

my apologies. I should have made it clearer that the interview was only about the COTS-1 Dragon, not the F9 flight. that's my wording, it's clear from context in the interview that Richichi is only discussing Dragon.

Offline SpacexULA

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1442 on: 01/12/2011 03:48 am »
How in the world do you read "All engines/dracos worked" (by Elon) or "only a temperature sensor failed" (by Richichi) as anything but a denial?

I'm not ruling it out - perhaps SpaceX could cover it up. But if the L2 source is as ambiguous as some claim (I do not have L2 access so I cannot verify), I would say that the burden of proof is on the person who claims that a thruster failure occurred.

Or the simpler / does not require a conspiracy answer is that the draco had multiple sensors on it, 1 sensor was giving bum readings when they activated the engine, so they just didn't fire the engine further while in orbit.  But once they got it on the ground they realized it was just a failed sensor and the draco was fine and had fired nominally.

That wold allow everyone to be truthful, and makes a lot of since.  But it might just be easier to call it a SpaceX "cover up".

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Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1443 on: 01/12/2011 07:57 am »
Then again, someone else on the public section also said one Draco did fail so there you have it. Certainly neither confirmed nor denied by SpaceX.

How in the world do you read "All engines/dracos worked" (by Elon) or "only a temperature sensor failed" (by Richichi) as anything but a denial?

Denial and spin ("not lying, just not telling the whole truth") for PR purposes are not the same. SpaceX don't have a tendency lately to bring up something that fails unless someone else brings it up for them. All part of that "everyone's out to get us" paranoia, being commercial poster child and all that.

Not saying I blame them, just that I wouldn't take everything Elon says at a post flight press conference at face value. Take that how you will. As for Richichi, well, he didn't exactly deny it, did he?

It's illogical to expect there weren't other anomalies in the flight of a brand new vehicle, no matter how many "it all went perfectly" qualifications one applies. Mission objectives went perfectly, doesn't mean everything from a technical standpoint went perfectly.

As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on this.

Offline beancounter

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1444 on: 01/13/2011 01:09 am »
Then again, someone else on the public section also said one Draco did fail so there you have it. Certainly neither confirmed nor denied by SpaceX.

How in the world do you read "All engines/dracos worked" (by Elon) or "only a temperature sensor failed" (by Richichi) as anything but a denial?

Denial and spin ("not lying, just not telling the whole truth") for PR purposes are not the same. SpaceX don't have a tendency lately to bring up something that fails unless someone else brings it up for them. All part of that "everyone's out to get us" paranoia, being commercial poster child and all that.

Not saying I blame them, just that I wouldn't take everything Elon says at a post flight press conference at face value. Take that how you will. As for Richichi, well, he didn't exactly deny it, did he?

It's illogical to expect there weren't other anomalies in the flight of a brand new vehicle, no matter how many "it all went perfectly" qualifications one applies. Mission objectives went perfectly, doesn't mean everything from a technical standpoint went perfectly.

As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on this.
Well if I were on the jury, I'd have to say that the mission was a complete success irrespective of a Draco or sensor failure (if one or the other happened). 
All the milestones were obviously met.  NASA made its payment for the mission since the vehicle apparently fulfilled their requirements and the continuing discussion surrounding combining COTS 2 and 3 missions give credence to that view.
I'll bet on a combined mission being more likely than not even at this early stage.
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Offline corrodedNut

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1445 on: 01/13/2011 09:55 pm »
I forgot to download the interstage video from spacex.  Does anyone have a youtube link to that?  I can't find any on youtube.

See: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=22769.msg680216#msg680216

Offline KSC Engineer

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1446 on: 01/14/2011 12:15 am »
Not sure where to post this but thought you'd enjoy a photo of the SpaceX office in Huntsville.  I was in Huntsville today, walked in to a building for another meeting and noticed their suite on the first floor although I didn't see any lights on.

Offline corrodedNut

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1447 on: 01/24/2011 07:21 pm »
The SpaceX file server has 5 new images and an mp4 of the highlights video:

https://send.spacex.com/bds/Login.do?id=A043517252&p1=naj20dpsbfegcidgdlgffcj20

Most of these images are not "new" but they are much higher res.

Offline telomerase99

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1448 on: 01/25/2011 05:35 pm »
Then again, someone else on the public section also said one Draco did fail so there you have it. Certainly neither confirmed nor denied by SpaceX.

How in the world do you read "All engines/dracos worked" (by Elon) or "only a temperature sensor failed" (by Richichi) as anything but a denial?

Denial and spin ("not lying, just not telling the whole truth") for PR purposes are not the same. SpaceX don't have a tendency lately to bring up something that fails unless someone else brings it up for them. All part of that "everyone's out to get us" paranoia, being commercial poster child and all that.

Not saying I blame them, just that I wouldn't take everything Elon says at a post flight press conference at face value. Take that how you will. As for Richichi, well, he didn't exactly deny it, did he?

It's illogical to expect there weren't other anomalies in the flight of a brand new vehicle, no matter how many "it all went perfectly" qualifications one applies. Mission objectives went perfectly, doesn't mean everything from a technical standpoint went perfectly.

As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on this.

You honestly think that announcing in a press conference that a sensor in a thruster malfunctioned after orbit was reached and a new space craft returned is necessary?

Its kind of like you are fighting on the wrong side of yesterdays war.

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1449 on: 01/25/2011 05:47 pm »
You honestly think that announcing in a press conference that a sensor in a thruster malfunctioned after orbit was reached and a new space craft returned is necessary?

No, I don't. I'm not that naive. Where, in fact, have I stated it is necessary?

I'm suggesting some people here are naive to think that absence of public statement on issues experienced implies there were no such issues.

Did SpaceX tell you in their press release that the lidar in the DragonEye flown on STS-127 failed at one point? Of course they didn't. And I don't expect them to. There is a difference between holding up information and claiming (as some are here) that that, by itself constitutes denial.

I thought I made that perfectly clear in the last post. Guess not.
« Last Edit: 01/25/2011 05:49 pm by ugordan »

Offline daveglo

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1450 on: 01/30/2011 05:25 pm »
The SpaceX file server has 5 new images and an mp4 of the highlights video:

https://send.spacex.com/bds/Login.do?id=A043517252&p1=naj20dpsbfegcidgdlgffcj20

Most of these images are not "new" but they are much higher res.

The updated video includes new camera angles out of the window of the Dragon during launch, plus audio tracks of separation and start events, and a new video of the restart of the second stage to a high elliptical orbit after Dragon separation.

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1451 on: 02/09/2011 07:36 pm »
This article has a hi-res image of the Dragon: http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/housingcomplex/2011/02/09/tesla-has-landed/

If I'm looking at it correctly, that's a hefty TPS thickness on the capsule walls.

Offline stockman

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1452 on: 02/09/2011 07:39 pm »
This article has a hi-res image of the Dragon: http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/housingcomplex/2011/02/09/tesla-has-landed/

If I'm looking at it correctly, that's a hefty TPS thickness on the capsule walls.

wow that closeup really shows that the sides took some beating... looks like some chips taken out of it..
« Last Edit: 02/09/2011 07:41 pm by stockman »
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Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1453 on: 02/09/2011 08:38 pm »
wow that closeup really shows that the sides took some beating... looks like some chips taken out of it..

The only thing I see that looks like damage is the tear-out for the parachute line.  That is supposed to happen.  Look at the images from the drop test. 

The remainder of the exterior looks pretty good, particularly considering its exposure.  Just a bit of discoloration.  Do you see additional damage?
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Offline Lars_J

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1454 on: 02/09/2011 09:00 pm »
Nice picture!

Yep, it looks mostly like discoloration and paint flakes that have come off the insulation material for the sidewalls. (that insulation looks about 1-2" thick)

Offline stockman

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1455 on: 02/09/2011 09:13 pm »
wow that closeup really shows that the sides took some beating... looks like some chips taken out of it..

The only thing I see that looks like damage is the tear-out for the parachute line.  That is supposed to happen.  Look at the images from the drop test. 

The remainder of the exterior looks pretty good, particularly considering its exposure.  Just a bit of discoloration.  Do you see additional damage?

Maybe it is just the paint.. when I looked at this the first time it looked like chunks had been taken out but now it does seem like maybe just the surface paint... Not that bad then...
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Offline arnezami

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1456 on: 02/10/2011 05:46 am »
Question: is the dragon dark on (mostly) one side due to its offset in its center of mass? (or better: due to the heat shield center being off-center in relation to the center of dragon as a whole)?

Here you can see one side is quite "cripsy":



whereas the other side is quite untouched:



And when you see the heatshield, you can see its not symmetric, but "favoring" one side:





Just thought the two:

- one-sided-crispyness
- assymetrically-tilted-heat-shield-shape

are related. :)

I know Elon talked about steering by using an offset center off mass, creating a tilt:

http://fora.tv/2009/04/07/Uber_Entrepreneur_An_Evening_with_Elon_Musk#fullprogram

Click on the part: "16. Aiming a Space Capsule on Landing".

Food for thought...
« Last Edit: 02/10/2011 05:51 am by arnezami »

Offline Downix

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1457 on: 02/10/2011 05:47 am »
Notice the burn is on the side opposite to the door.  This was an issue I noticed with Apollo, the capsule doors had scorch marks up to near the door.  I would not want to climb out of it for a bit after landing, due to this.  But tilting it, you'd now have a much cooler exit I'd imagine.
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Offline rklaehn

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1458 on: 02/10/2011 06:11 am »
Question: is the dragon dark on (mostly) one side due to its offset in its center of mass? (or better: due to the heat shield center being off-center in relation to the center of dragon as a whole)?

Yes, definitely. The "crispy" wall is the one that is closer to the shockwave due to the tilt of the capsule. If the capsule center of gravity was on the axis of symmetry, all sides would be equally crispy.

See this apollo reentry drawing. The crispy side would be the upper side in this image.

Offline hop

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1459 on: 02/10/2011 06:14 am »
Just thought the two:

- one-sided-crispyness
- assymetrically-tilted-heat-shield-shape
Yes, this is normal for lifting capsules. Here's a Soyuz showing it's 'crispy' and 'less crispy' sides
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nasahqphoto/5034406924/

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