Author Topic: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates  (Read 649805 times)

Offline go4mars

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1340 on: 01/04/2011 05:36 pm »
LN2 and LO2 are made in air separation units.  The only recurring cost is electricity.

Thanks.  I was unaware of that.  Something like this I presume: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_separation

If only they also churned out meta-stable polymeric nitrogen N4   
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Offline corrodedNut

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1341 on: 01/04/2011 07:10 pm »
SpaceX gets their LOX from Praxair, IIRC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxair

"...was originally founded in 1907 when it was the first company in North America to commercialize cryogenically separated oxygen...In the 1960s, Praxair introduced non-cryogenic means of air separation..."

Speaking of post-flight updates, I found this little tidbit:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/5265674380/

From the caption dated Dec 15: "A special delivery arrived in the back room the Dragon spacecraft sits in a glass box clean room with scientists all around performing post-flight analysis. It looks like an alien craft in the secret lair of Area 51, evoking gasps from even the SpaceX executives when they first set eyes upon it."

Earlier reports had it going to McGregor, so did it go there and come back? Why would it go to Texas, maybe for hypergolic handling? Could you even send it over-the-road legally with residual hypers on it?
« Last Edit: 01/04/2011 07:18 pm by corrodedNut »

Offline go4mars

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1342 on: 01/04/2011 07:24 pm »
Speaking of post-flight updates, I found this little tidbit:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/5265674380/


Nice find!  I love how the giant Mars photo looms so prominently.  Eye on the prize. 
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Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1343 on: 01/04/2011 08:26 pm »
LOx is made from air.

Do they use a centrifuge then?  I would have thought they would do electrolyis of water.  Either way, the price is probably mostly from the energy required to separate, chill, and truck it.

 Use to be they'd liquify air and then warm it up enough to bubble the nitrogen out. It seems like electrolysis might be good if you want to make liquid hydrogen at the same time.
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1344 on: 01/04/2011 08:32 pm »
LOx is made from air.

Do they use a centrifuge then?  I would have thought they would do electrolyis of water.  Either way, the price is probably mostly from the energy required to separate, chill, and truck it.

 Use to be they'd liquify air and then warm it up enough to bubble the nitrogen out. It seems like electrolysis might be good if you want to make liquid hydrogen at the same time.
Electrolysis isn't used. And it's not the usual production method for hydrogen, either.
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Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1345 on: 01/04/2011 08:41 pm »
SpaceX gets their LOX from Praxair, IIRC.


There is a plant in Mims, FL that supplies everyone, shuttle, Atlas, Delta, Falcon, etc

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1346 on: 01/04/2011 08:46 pm »
Press release from DLA Energy about the recent flight:

http://www.dla.mil/DLAPublic/DLA_Media_Center/PressRelease/PressReleasePrintable.aspx?ID=909

they were apparently the provider of the hypergolic fuels, and also provided logistics for recovery (presumably unused fuel cleanup / mitigation)

Curious
DLA (which has a .MIL domain) provided "two propellants for the historic launch: dinitrogen tetroxide and monomethylhydrazine".  Once would conclude that SpaceX obtained their LOX and RP-1 from another source, despite DLA Energy being a provider of those at KSC.


DLA is the Defense Logistics Agency.  "Energy" is just a branch of the agency that deals with fuels, propellants and gases for the military. Because of the limited amounts and since they are specialty items, DLA  manages hypergolic propellant acquisition and storage for the military, and also provides for govt and commercial use.

As for LOX, DLA just manages the contracts for the Govt.  Commercial users, ULA and Spacex have their own contracts, since there are multiple sources with Praxair is the local one for KSC/CCAFS. 

LH2 shouldn't show up on the list since KSC manages its acquisition for all of the US Gov't

« Last Edit: 01/04/2011 08:54 pm by Jim »

Offline go4mars

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Offline Toner Soprano

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1348 on: 01/05/2011 12:21 am »
It looks like SpaceX updated their video section.  I don't remember seeing inside the interstage and ascent video from inside the Dragon.  The sounds produced  are  pretty interesting. 

Offline corrodedNut

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1349 on: 01/05/2011 12:53 am »
It looks like SpaceX updated their video section.  I don't remember seeing inside the interstage and ascent video from inside the Dragon.  The sounds produced  are  pretty interesting. 

Yes indeed, looks like they got some data back from the "talon pod" after all. Is that the "octopus" from inside the 1st stage engine compartment as well?

The dragon ascent video is new too:

http://spacex.com/multimedia/videos.php?id=57

http://spacex.com/multimedia/videos.php?id=56
« Last Edit: 01/05/2011 12:57 am by corrodedNut »

Offline Lars_J

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1350 on: 01/05/2011 01:43 am »
There's also added video at the end, showing the 2nd stage restart.

I agree that the sounds are interesting. :)

Offline stockman

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1351 on: 01/05/2011 01:44 am »
And fairing separation is shown and highlighted as well... Actually some very nice video extras.... great find...
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Offline rickl

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1352 on: 01/05/2011 01:48 am »
How did they separate the nose fairing, anyway?  It must have been ejected forward and off to the side.
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Offline stockman

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1353 on: 01/05/2011 01:52 am »
for those who haven't seen the video yet,, here are a few snaps of some of the camera angles that are new from what I can see...

1) inside the interstage prior to separation

2 & 3) view from the first stage looking up just prior to second stage ignition

4) Nose Cone fairing jetison

5) Second stage engine Restart.
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Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1354 on: 01/05/2011 02:05 am »
Looking straight into the hellmouth at 1:35...  no kidding - the shot from the first stage looking into the second is priceless.  You know what's going to happen, but still nice to see it happening...  The tumble rate was just right for maximum cinematographic effect :)
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Offline tigerade

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1355 on: 01/05/2011 02:55 am »
I like the new videos!  Thanks for pointing them out.  It's kinda funny though, COTS1 is still showing up as an "Upcoming Mission" on the SpaceX website.  I wonder why they haven't updated that yet?

Offline go4mars

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1356 on: 01/05/2011 03:02 am »
What is the cheese grater in photos 2&3?
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Offline go4mars

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1357 on: 01/05/2011 03:10 am »
2 other things:

1) At 2:30 to 2:50 (dragon separation) what are all the little chunks drifting around?

2)  Observation:  When they restart the upper stage, the nozzle does not look warped/rippled as some were speculating earlier. 
Elasmotherium; hurlyburly Doggerlandic Jentilak steeds insouciantly gallop in viridescent taiga, eluding deluginal Burckle's abyssal excavation.

Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1358 on: 01/05/2011 04:15 am »
What is the cheese grater in photos 2&3?
I suspect not much different from this vented panel inside my PC, which I tried to shoot in approximately the same orientation.
« Last Edit: 01/05/2011 04:18 am by MarsInMyLifetime »
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Offline kkattula

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates
« Reply #1359 on: 01/05/2011 04:22 am »
What is the cheese grater in photos 2&3?

Well there was a wheel of cheese onboard Dragon, so...

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