Quote from: kml on 06/22/2015 09:10 pmI have started conducting tests on my linear EmDrive. The test assembly is fully untethered using a battery power source and IR remote control for RF on/off. Forces are measured using an AND MC-10K 10.1kg x 0.001g scale. ...Only the dummy load test did I not see any change in scale output. The output of the isolator is directly connected to the dummy load that normally takes the output of the sampling port, thus bypassing the RF cavity:Most likely there is an RFI problem with the scale.[/b] I'm going to attempt to shield the scale with the unit suspended above it to prove that it is RFI.That is very interesting. Can I make a constructive suggestion? Why don't you put the dummy load (or a suitably sized resistor for DC power) inside the cavity and collect data with that configuration? This was my criticism of the Eagleworks lab tests going back to thread 1. Have you posted a picture of your apparatus? videos? Good work!
I have started conducting tests on my linear EmDrive. The test assembly is fully untethered using a battery power source and IR remote control for RF on/off. Forces are measured using an AND MC-10K 10.1kg x 0.001g scale. ...Only the dummy load test did I not see any change in scale output. The output of the isolator is directly connected to the dummy load that normally takes the output of the sampling port, thus bypassing the RF cavity:Most likely there is an RFI problem with the scale.[/b] I'm going to attempt to shield the scale with the unit suspended above it to prove that it is RFI.
Roger Shawyer kindly sent me a copy of his EMDrive paper that is currently under peer review. All I can say is WOW. All doubt will be removed. Apologises but can't yet share it.SNIPStill in bed, recovering slower than desired, damn old age, but getting there. My build start still looks like 4 to 6 weeks away but the design steadly improves. Force measurement system will follow what Shawyer did in the Flight Thruster demo setup as attached. Hang it from a spring and measure the generated forces on a digital scale. Typical KISS enginerring.
The feed ports are removable so I can find a way to test with a dummy load inside....Here is a picture of the setup:
And even with the unit suspended by a wood stand just above the scale (to prevent contact), with ceramic flooring tiles placed on the scale tray for similar loading:
...Still in bed, recovering slower than desired, damn old age, but getting there. ..
@Rodal - I have: BIG DIAMETER = 0.27246 m SMALL DIAMETER = 0.068115 m LENGTH = 0.4890240258390259 mPardon the extra digits from the calculation.Running in 3-D with bandwidth opened up to 0.5 * drive frequency (drive = ~1.95GHz), Meep finds 4 frequencies:1.58530024E+0091.83409637E+0092.08402579E+0092.33698507E+009 Hz Q - in order620.675008923133.41473139131211.3296422825141.0133154386 This is electric excitation with antenna = 0.2 * wavelength, perpendicular to and centered on the central axis of rotation.OK - I just read the rest of your post. I'll look for the location of the antenna in the Brady cone, and put it there. But as I recall, that was for exciting a TM mode?
I have a 7 ton car lift in my shop that is buried in over 3 feet of bedrock and concrete so I figured I would use that as it's stable. The fulcrum is a laminated plywood beam with a SS cable attached to the ends with a turnbuckle to keep it taunt and straight. The critical issue I've seen id getting power cables to the Drive without having to worry about the power cable causing issues. I have the power box under the fulcrum in a shielded cage. The power line from it goes up to connect to a point above the center of the beam. *see drawing and never touches the beam which could cause deflection.The damper is a small 1 gal can filled with 30 weight oil and is connected to the end of the fulcrum and should provide damping in the X and Z directions.The end of the beam opposite of the drive is a laser pointer to monitor any disturbances. (thrust hopefully) Still looking at scales so I've not put one into my layout.Thoughts? Questions?Shell
Quote from: TheTraveller on 06/22/2015 11:44 pm...Still in bed, recovering slower than desired, damn old age, but getting there. ..Take all the time you need to build up your strength and spirits. Your job right now is to relax and recover. Wishing you a prompt recovery.
Quote from: kml on 06/22/2015 09:10 pmAnd even with the unit suspended by a wood stand just above the scale (to prevent contact), with ceramic flooring tiles placed on the scale tray for similar loading:So let me understand. The rig wasn't even ON THE SCALE and the scale regestered a weight change?
....Let's try to work through this. The standard convention is to take z as the axis of symmetry (the longitudinal axis of the cone) but the way you labeled them, it looks like x is your axis of symmetry, is that correct?If x is the axis of symmetry, then y and z are perpendicular to it. On the trapezium-looking cross section with axis y perpendicular to it, the axis of the trapezium are x and z, is that correct?OK, if the answer is yes, on your y plot, what are you plotting:Ex ?Ez?Hx?Hz?
X is the axis of symmetry. The antenna is to the +Y edge of the cavity. Z completes the coordinate system.I am plotting a snap shot of the x, y and z corrdinate values of the Ez field. More than that you'd have to ask a physicist.
Quote from: Rodal on 06/22/2015 10:32 pm....Let's try to work through this. The standard convention is to take z as the axis of symmetry (the longitudinal axis of the cone) but the way you labeled them, it looks like x is your axis of symmetry, is that correct?If x is the axis of symmetry, then y and z are perpendicular to it. On the trapezium-looking cross section with axis y perpendicular to it, the axis of the trapezium are x and z, is that correct?OK, if the answer is yes, on your y plot, what are you plotting:Ex ?Ez?Hx?Hz?Quote from: aero on 06/23/2015 12:56 amX is the axis of symmetry. The antenna is to the +Y edge of the cavity. Z completes the coordinate system.I am plotting a snap shot of the x, y and z corrdinate values of the Ez field. More than that you'd have to ask a physicist.Can you plot the Absolute Value of the E field:for example, for the cross-section with normal yinstead of Ez, can you have contour plot Sqrt[(Ex)^2 + (Ez)^2]
Quote from: kml on 06/22/2015 09:10 pmMost likely there is an RFI problem with the scale. I'm going to attempt to shield the scale with the unit suspended above it to prove that it is RFI.I have to say that these are very intriguing results! While we are all waiting to see if you can eliminate RFI interference on your scale as the cause for these results, I would like to point out a couple of notable things:1). The performance with and without dielectrics reflects Shawyer's and Yang's experience.2). Much more interesting from my perspective are the declining lows in your first experiment with the dielectrics. This is a very similar pattern to the Eagleworks tests With a dielectric insert. It was speculated at the time that this might have been due to out gassing but I can't see that happening with a ceramic dielectric!!So what the heck is happening with the dielectrics?There is a more subtle pattern of declining lows without the dielectrics, but it is more pronounced with them present. So either there is some type of ongoing electrical (electrostatic?) interference with the digital scale once the power is off, significant out gassing from somewhere, or we are looking some very interesting theoretical issues here folks - and evanescent waves are just not going to cut it...Edit: After checking the scale, it is apparent that the unit is getting lighter and so we have to add ballooning to the possible effects, with the dielectrics thermal mass sustaining the effect.
Most likely there is an RFI problem with the scale. I'm going to attempt to shield the scale with the unit suspended above it to prove that it is RFI.
Quote from: SeeShells on 06/23/2015 01:35 amI have a 7 ton car lift in my shop that is buried in over 3 feet of bedrock and concrete so I figured I would use that as it's stable. Thoughts? Questions?ShellIn my own speculative experimental design I also have thought about using a very large beam with a laser pointer. Question. Does something as massive as that beam really need any additional dampening? Without doing the math, I envisaged that any changes would happen slowly, the mass of the beam dampening most artifacts. Also, because it will be slow, you need to be mindful of cooling since everything will need to run for long periods of time.
I have a 7 ton car lift in my shop that is buried in over 3 feet of bedrock and concrete so I figured I would use that as it's stable. Thoughts? Questions?Shell
splad posted this great video on Reddit:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5fVFA2sWt4&feature=youtu.beAcoustic Propulsion[...]You must have mass/energy coming out of the EM Drive to have any propulsion, as well.This is a great test to show that Shawyer is wrong (justifying the EM Drive on resonance, and claiming that no esoteric physics is needed to have propulsion without anything coming out): if you put a cap on the bottles, they will not spin, as there is no air coming out, it is an ASYMMETRIC RESONATOR. It needs to have an open end for it to work.EDIT: Acoustic propulsion works because the exhaust of gas (due to compression of the plastic bottle during acoustic vibration) occurs in well-directed vortices while the intake of gas (due to the expansion phase of the plastic bottle during acoustic vibration) is not as axially directed but instead it sucks air from a large range of directions, including the direction perpendicular to the axis of axisymmetry of the bottle. In other words, acoustic propulsion works due to the difference between ejection flow and intake flow.
Quote from: SeeShells on 06/23/2015 01:35 amThe critical issue I've seen id getting power cables to the Drive without having to worry about the power cable causing issues. I have the power box under the fulcrum in a shielded cage. The power line from it goes up to connect to a point above the center of the beam. *see drawing and never touches the beam which could cause deflection.Thoughts? Questions?Shellthere will be 4 wires needed for magnetron, 2 bias and 2 filament. Make a liquid "wire splice" for the 4 wires. Basically 4 test tubes of conductive mercury. An electrode from power supply wire goes in at bottom of tube. Another electrode from fulcrum drops down into mercury. The mercury conducts the voltage regardless of the depth of the fulcrum side electrode, it simply swims in it. Depth of mercury and length of electrode should allow Moment arm displacement without breaking contact (fulcrum side electrode rising out of mercury).A non scientific description of a near frictionless wire splice...hope I explained it well enough.
The critical issue I've seen id getting power cables to the Drive without having to worry about the power cable causing issues. I have the power box under the fulcrum in a shielded cage. The power line from it goes up to connect to a point above the center of the beam. *see drawing and never touches the beam which could cause deflection.Thoughts? Questions?Shell