Quote from: aero on 05/17/2018 08:50 pmQuote from: RedLineTrain on 05/17/2018 08:46 pmQuote from: aero on 05/17/2018 08:32 pmTwenty-five tons to LEO. Isn't that new?Certainly would be. But where do you find that referenced?Here!http://www.spacex.com/falcon9I still see 22.8 metric tons to LEO. Has been that way for a long while.
Quote from: RedLineTrain on 05/17/2018 08:46 pmQuote from: aero on 05/17/2018 08:32 pmTwenty-five tons to LEO. Isn't that new?Certainly would be. But where do you find that referenced?Here!http://www.spacex.com/falcon9
Quote from: aero on 05/17/2018 08:32 pmTwenty-five tons to LEO. Isn't that new?Certainly would be. But where do you find that referenced?
Twenty-five tons to LEO. Isn't that new?
Quote from: RedLineTrain on 05/17/2018 08:52 pmQuote from: aero on 05/17/2018 08:50 pmQuote from: RedLineTrain on 05/17/2018 08:46 pmQuote from: aero on 05/17/2018 08:32 pmTwenty-five tons to LEO. Isn't that new?Certainly would be. But where do you find that referenced?Here!http://www.spacex.com/falcon9I still see 22.8 metric tons to LEO. Has been that way for a long while.Yes, 50,000+ lbs.= 25 tons. So not new, I guess I haven't kept abreast of the performance numbers.
Those are numbers with the 1.71klbf Merlin rating. The current Block 5 is 1.9klbf, so something closer to 24 tonnes to LEO.
Quote from: AncientU on 05/17/2018 08:59 pmThose are numbers with the 1.71klbf Merlin rating. The current Block 5 is 1.9klbf, so something closer to 24 tonnes to LEO.What's your source for the current Block 5 at 1.9 klbf? According to the Musk press call linked above, it's still 1.71 klbf, with maybe room to get to 1.73 klbf.
QuoteMust: [sic] Merlin engine thrust increased by 8%. Might be a little more room there. #SpaceX #Falcon9 #Block5https://twitter.com/spacebrendan/status/994649013914914818Edit to add:QuoteFalcon 9 Block 5 will see an 8 percent increase in thrust over older Block 4 models. Thrust-to-weight ratio even better than it was before, Musk says, which was already the best in the world for previous models.https://twitter.com/emrekelly/status/994649234841526278QuoteMusk: Merlin rocket engine thrust increased by 8 percent, to 190,000 lbf.https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/994649495861432321
Must: [sic] Merlin engine thrust increased by 8%. Might be a little more room there. #SpaceX #Falcon9 #Block5
Falcon 9 Block 5 will see an 8 percent increase in thrust over older Block 4 models. Thrust-to-weight ratio even better than it was before, Musk says, which was already the best in the world for previous models.
Musk: Merlin rocket engine thrust increased by 8 percent, to 190,000 lbf.
Quote from: dlapine on 05/17/2018 09:09 pmAs dglow noted, the discussion is about Elon said, not what the webmaster at SpaceX has updated or not. The website prices have always been a starting point for discussion with their customers, not an order form. If I happened to have $50M burning a hole in my pocket and a payload in orbit, that's the price I'd start with in discussions with the SpaceX sales force. "What Elon Said" has often been, as I see it, a loose representation of a set of goals/ideas bouncing around in his head rather than a PR-certified truth about what is happening right now. I tend to put more weight in "What Gwynn Said" when it comes to hard facts. It does seem clear from the interview and the Space News story that SpaceX reduced prices to incentivize the early re-flown booster launches, which were essentially experiments. I await hard evidence that the company has or will be officially cutting its standard launch prices as a result of cost savings from first stage reuse. - Ed Kyle
As dglow noted, the discussion is about Elon said, not what the webmaster at SpaceX has updated or not. The website prices have always been a starting point for discussion with their customers, not an order form. If I happened to have $50M burning a hole in my pocket and a payload in orbit, that's the price I'd start with in discussions with the SpaceX sales force.
Quote from: abaddon on 05/17/2018 08:14 pmThere is no ambiguity or conflict here, I do not believe your interpretation is correct.Screen capture from just now. - Ed Kyle
There is no ambiguity or conflict here, I do not believe your interpretation is correct.
"What Elon Said" has often been, as I see it, a loose representation of a set of goals/ideas bouncing around in his head rather than a PR-certified truth about what is happening right now. I tend to put more weight in "What Gwynn Said" when it comes to hard facts.
It isn't just me. As I noted in my original post, Caleb Henry of Space News reported a different interpretation of Elon's statement than NasaSpaceFlight.
On February 6 Hans Koenigsmann said SpaceX was going to phase out discounts for reused boosters.http://spacenews.com/dont-expect-deep-discounts-on-preflown-spacex-boosters/
MOUNTAIN VIEW, California – SpaceX customers should not expect deep discounts when they opt to launch satellites on previously flown boosters instead of new ones, at least not initially, said Hans Koenigsmann, vice president of build and flight reliability for Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX.Although SpaceX intends to decrease launch costs over time, it will not immediately offer significant discounts on preflown boosters while it recovers its investment in the technology it is developing to make rockets reusable, including its “navy” of drone ships and telemetry boats, Koenigsmann said Feb. 6 at the Small Satellite Symposium here.Plus, there may be no reason to offer steep discounts on rockets with previously flown boosters because “I’m not sure that booster has any wear and tear on it that makes it worse,” Koenigsmann said.
Quote from: envy887 on 05/18/2018 12:24 amOn February 6 Hans Koenigsmann said SpaceX was going to phase out discounts for reused boosters.http://spacenews.com/dont-expect-deep-discounts-on-preflown-spacex-boosters/QuoteMOUNTAIN VIEW, California – SpaceX customers should not expect deep discounts when they opt to launch satellites on previously flown boosters instead of new ones, at least not initially, said Hans Koenigsmann, vice president of build and flight reliability for Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX.Although SpaceX intends to decrease launch costs over time, it will not immediately offer significant discounts on preflown boosters while it recovers its investment in the technology it is developing to make rockets reusable, including its “navy” of drone ships and telemetry boats, Koenigsmann said Feb. 6 at the Small Satellite Symposium here.Plus, there may be no reason to offer steep discounts on rockets with previously flown boosters because “I’m not sure that booster has any wear and tear on it that makes it worse,” Koenigsmann said.You dropped the adjectives he used every time he talked about discounts. I read this as we "we no longer need to entice people to fly reused boosters because we've proven them reliable." So there is no drastic discount. I bet SES paid a lot less than $50 million for that first flight.All of this is consistent with dropping price to $50 million and then charging a premium if you insist on a new booster that SpaceX does not need to otherwise build.
...people always ask the question, "so how much does it cost less now, because I want to go fly a previously flown booster?", and the answer is, well, you know, actually, no.
Didn't Elon say they invested something like $1 billion in developing reusability? That's a huge chunk of change to recoup. No wonder they're not in any hurry to cut their own throats.
On February 6 Hans Koenigsmann said SpaceX was going to phase out discounts for reused boosters.
Quote from: Ludus on 05/17/2018 07:51 pm10 reuses of the same block 5 booster along with 24hr turnaround set for 2019 is very impressive. They’ll prove the 10x and refurb plan long before they actually need it (if they ever do).Even if he doesn’t agree with it as strategy, Elon is building a huge (candy filled) moat around the launch business.They've already created a massive barrier to entry and this isn't going to make it any easier.Ross.
10 reuses of the same block 5 booster along with 24hr turnaround set for 2019 is very impressive. They’ll prove the 10x and refurb plan long before they actually need it (if they ever do).Even if he doesn’t agree with it as strategy, Elon is building a huge (candy filled) moat around the launch business.