Total Members Voted: 55
Voting closed: 08/20/2018 03:29 pm
Ever since SpaceX laid out their plans, I was curious about one thing: A concrete plan for surface power generation.Saying "solar" doesn't cut it.- What is the planned power demand and production capacity?- What is the tech, generally? (Si, III-V? Rigid/inflatable? Tracking? Cleaning?)- How will they bootstrap?- Any concrete plans to make parts of it on Mars?-----ABCD: Always Be Counting Down
It seams the hardware would be on the cargo flights because it will need to be up and running for propellant generation. Anyone care to speculate on its mass, how does it get deployed, battery mass and how to maintain?
Quote from: testguy on 05/12/2018 08:00 pmIt seams the hardware would be on the cargo flights because it will need to be up and running for propellant generation. Anyone care to speculate on its mass, how does it get deployed, battery mass and how to maintain?See the Powering martian civilisation from ebay thread.In short, one BFS, using off-the-shelf panels and tesla class batteries can provide of the order of 500kW continuous throughout most of the year.In addition, the solar panels the BFS has been using throughout the trip may be re-rigged and provide 10-20kW on the surface with no external deployment.500kW is enough electricity from one BFS to do around a BFS worth of fuel every year.
Quote from: speedevil on 05/12/2018 08:46 pmQuote from: testguy on 05/12/2018 08:00 pmIt seams the hardware would be on the cargo flights because it will need to be up and running for propellant generation. Anyone care to speculate on its mass, how does it get deployed, battery mass and how to maintain?See the Powering martian civilisation from ebay thread.In short, one BFS, using off-the-shelf panels and tesla class batteries can provide of the order of 500kW continuous throughout most of the year.In addition, the solar panels the BFS has been using throughout the trip may be re-rigged and provide 10-20kW on the surface with no external deployment.500kW is enough electricity from one BFS to do around a BFS worth of fuel every year.I read the thread, but I want to hear SpaceX's story too... -----ABCD: Always Be Counting Down
Quote from: meekGee on 05/12/2018 10:04 pmQuote from: speedevil on 05/12/2018 08:46 pmQuote from: testguy on 05/12/2018 08:00 pmIt seams the hardware would be on the cargo flights because it will need to be up and running for propellant generation. Anyone care to speculate on its mass, how does it get deployed, battery mass and how to maintain?See the Powering martian civilisation from ebay thread.In short, one BFS, using off-the-shelf panels and tesla class batteries can provide of the order of 500kW continuous throughout most of the year.In addition, the solar panels the BFS has been using throughout the trip may be re-rigged and provide 10-20kW on the surface with no external deployment.500kW is enough electricity from one BFS to do around a BFS worth of fuel every year.I read the thread, but I want to hear SpaceX's story too... -----ABCD: Always Be Counting DownSpaceX is under no such obligation. But if you’re interested in what SpaceX has looked at, there are hints.
Tbh I think SpaceX is hoping for NASA or someone else says "Hey, we can help with power, habitats, etc...".And they may be right, once BFR seems plausible and transport is possible, they will probably get help building infrastructure.
I'm looking for an experienced manufacturing engineer for my team! Ideal candidate is hands-on problem solver with experience ramping up a high volume production line for terrestrial solar arrays. Send me a message if you or someone you know is interested.
SpaceX was founded under the belief that a future where humanity is out exploring the stars is fundamentally more exciting than one where we are not. Today SpaceX is actively developing the technologies to make this possible, with the ultimate goal of enabling human life on Mars.SOLAR ARRAY MANUFACTURING ENGINEERRESPONSIBILITIES:Develop and document processes used in the assembly of low-cost solar panels for space applicationsWork intimately with solder and weld processes for conductor interconnectionEvaluate candidate processes using tools like PFMEA and Six SigmaConduct root cause investigations in the case of process issuesCharacterize photovoltaic devices (LIV, DIV, EL, IR) and interpret resultsSupport the training of manufacturing techniciansBASIC QUALIFICATIONS:Bachelor's degree in an engineering or scientific discipline from an ABET accredited university5+ years experience in high volume, low-cost manufacturing processes5+ years experience with polymeric materials and related processesPREFERRED SKILLS AND EXPERIENCE:Familiarity with spacecraft solar arrays and the space environmentFamiliarity with terrestrial solar arraysEnthusiasm for hands-on prototypingStrong written and verbal communication skills
Johan Karlsson:^BFS?Thiago V Goncalves: Starlink maybe?Mariano Ochoa: Mars base.Joy Dunn: All of these things (and Dragon) need solar power. And all of these things need manufacturing engineers to build them
Can I make a friendly suggestion that because this thread is about Mars and predicated on BFR, it ought to be moved to the SpaceX BFR section?
I want to make one point clear first of all:"Grand plans" are useless. If you expect detailed public plans from SpaceX, you'll never get them as they aren't worth the ink they're written in. Grand plans are WAY over-rated.BFR is all "build it and they will come" right now.NASA doesn't take BFR terribly seriously, yet. The only way to prove SpaceX is serious is for BFR (or at least BFS, which is the most important part for Mars) to fly. When that happens, watch partnerships line up. Same for "regulatory approval." But don't expect much of anything before that. Everyone else barely thinks Mars surface 2040 is doable, let alone 2025 and let alone at such scale.Space suits shown in renderings look very similar to the Dragon Crew ones. And it doesn't make sense for SpaceX to announce detailed plans for Mars suits (which would mean devoting workforce) while they're still doing Dragon Crew suits and learning about suit design. SpaceX should and is devoting workforce to finishing up these things for commercial crew.SpaceX is a large company, but they simply cannot devote enough money to keep people employed working on counting bolts on designs that probably will change drastically. They can't fund every possible permutation like NASA can. SpaceX IS and HAS BEEN working a lot of this stuff internally. You see hint of it in L2 and elsewhere. They've been looking at rovers, various solar power projects, nuclear power projects, etc. But it's still very in flux until BFR is ready.The first cargo missions will likely be pushed back. But even if they aren't, I would not be surprised if the first cargo mission is fairly rushed and thus treated mostly as a tech demo. It would prove propellant production, but not necessarily at the full scale. This is in line with SpaceX's statements as of the 2016/2017 IAC. It won't necessarily be a full, fueled-up BFS on the surface.SpaceX is funding constrained, and so they really hope to try to attract partners to develop as much of the ancillary stuff as they can. SpaceX is focusing mostly on EXACTLY what they should: BFR, starting with BFS.BFS is the lander. It is also almost all the other elements in the mission. It is the primary thing that enables mass human travel to Mars at scale and at low cost. Established players (for the most part) have NOTHING like it in their plans. NASA has plans for Mars suits, Mars rovers (even having done desert test campaigns), etc, etc, etc. It doesn't make sense for SpaceX to duplicate that when they barely have the funding for BFS.If SpaceX can prove BFS, all the rest can be negotiated. Maybe NASA will help with power and rovers and space suits?That said, SpaceX is looking for "terrestrial" solar array tech, now, which I take to mean ground mounted arrays (i.e. on mars for ISRU). This job listing, for instance:https://twitter.com/RocketJoy/status/989261693233479680QuoteI'm looking for an experienced manufacturing engineer for my team! Ideal candidate is hands-on problem solver with experience ramping up a high volume production line for terrestrial solar arrays. Send me a message if you or someone you know is interested.QuoteSpaceX was founded under the belief that a future where humanity is out exploring the stars is fundamentally more exciting than one where we are not. Today SpaceX is actively developing the technologies to make this possible, with the ultimate goal of enabling human life on Mars.SOLAR ARRAY MANUFACTURING ENGINEERRESPONSIBILITIES:Develop and document processes used in the assembly of low-cost solar panels for space applicationsWork intimately with solder and weld processes for conductor interconnectionEvaluate candidate processes using tools like PFMEA and Six SigmaConduct root cause investigations in the case of process issuesCharacterize photovoltaic devices (LIV, DIV, EL, IR) and interpret resultsSupport the training of manufacturing techniciansBASIC QUALIFICATIONS:Bachelor's degree in an engineering or scientific discipline from an ABET accredited university5+ years experience in high volume, low-cost manufacturing processes5+ years experience with polymeric materials and related processesPREFERRED SKILLS AND EXPERIENCE:Familiarity with spacecraft solar arrays and the space environmentFamiliarity with terrestrial solar arraysEnthusiasm for hands-on prototypingStrong written and verbal communication skillsAnd comments by the person (Joy Dunn) running the project at SpaceX on Twitter:QuoteJohan Karlsson:^BFS?Thiago V Goncalves: Starlink maybe?Mariano Ochoa: Mars base.Joy Dunn: All of these things (and Dragon) need solar power. And all of these things need manufacturing engineers to build them Obviously, SpaceX needs solar for a bunch of things, but one of the things they're already looking for is "terrestrial" array experience. I think a lot of this is to help focus on low cost, but doubtless some of it is very Mars-forward.SpaceX can't yet afford a huge team devoted to everything. Thus everything (including surface solar power) has to be as dual-purpose as possible. Which is why they're focusing on things like BFR which can pay for themselves.If BFR works, everything else can and will follow. Without BFR, it won't. So they're focusing on BFR.