When he first outlined his plans for Mars, he talked about people living in geodesic domes on the Martian surface. But he was probably called out on that part, by skeptics who didn't feel the dome idea could work (pressure forces, etc). So because of this, he's probably now shifting to the tunnel idea
Also to keep radiation exposure to within acceptable limits, time spent in domes on the surface should be controlled, although valuable for aesthetic and psychological reasons.
We have a rover on Mars (MSL) which includes an instrument capable of measuring the biological equivalent of the radiation received, not just raw radiation level.
Quote from: sanman on 02/05/2017 09:21 pmWhen he first outlined his plans for Mars, he talked about people living in geodesic domes on the Martian surface. But he was probably called out on that part, by skeptics who didn't feel the dome idea could work (pressure forces, etc). So because of this, he's probably now shifting to the tunnel idea Just to be pedantic, he originally said people live in domes, industry in tunnels. So there's nothing inconsistent with his original statements in his pursuing tunnelling technology.
But I am sure that Elon Musk sees at least one such dome with green plants as indispensible for the colony from the early days on. If only people know it is there and they can go and spend some time between plants and see the outside, if they want to.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 02/07/2017 01:45 amWe have a rover on Mars (MSL) which includes an instrument capable of measuring the biological equivalent of the radiation received, not just raw radiation level.No we don't. The only instrument capable of measuring the biologic impact would be a living organism. Once a sufficiently large number of living organisms have been exposed to the radiation and effects determined we can then apply that info to the readings of radiation measuring devices. The relation is presently only based on assumptions.
Accelerated or burst exposure to radiation will not give a sufficiently accurate biologic response. But that is what we can do on earth. We don't have affordable radiation sources that can provide constant low simulations of cosmic background radiation.
Yes I believe we have them. They are called airplanes. And the test subjects are called pilots and flight attendees. They might not operate at the same radiation level as there would be on Mars, but that a start with a large sample size. The other experiment using astronauts has probably a too small sample size and time of exposure for a statically significant conclusion. Before you name the missing magnetic field of Mars, I think that is only applicable for solar flare radiation but irrelevant for cosmic radiation. Not 100% sure though.
Something tells me that making a dome that gives equal protection, while being transparent enough to see the outside, and perhaps color matched to not look too Orangeto th einhabitants inside, is going to be a tricky piece of materials and structural engineering.
Just a reminder.To give the equivalent protection that Earth's atmosphere provides people at Sea Level takes about 3m of Martian Regolith. Something tells me that making a dome that gives equal protection, while being transparent enough to see the outside, and perhaps color matched to not look too Orangeto th einhabitants inside, is going to be a tricky piece of materials and structural engineering. Plants seem to be more tolerant of lower pressures and higher radiation, so slightly pressurized "green houses" seem to be the way to go to grow food without the huge cost of artificial light while staying underground (or burrowed into a cliff face) seems to be the way to go for humans.
Elon Musk mentioning a geodesic dome suggests a different approach. Build the dome to just contain pressure and be transparent. Think the panorama window in ITS. Build structures with radiation shielding inside. Those can have windows and a shielded porch to look at the plants and going outside for an hour or two a day would be OK in your radiation budget unless you are pregnant or an infant.
Quote from: john smith 19 on 03/04/2017 08:36 amJust a reminder.To give the equivalent protection that Earth's atmosphere provides people at Sea Level takes about 3m of Martian Regolith. Something tells me that making a dome that gives equal protection, while being transparent enough to see the outside, and perhaps color matched to not look too Orangeto th einhabitants inside, is going to be a tricky piece of materials and structural engineering. Plants seem to be more tolerant of lower pressures and higher radiation, so slightly pressurized "green houses" seem to be the way to go to grow food without the huge cost of artificial light while staying underground (or burrowed into a cliff face) seems to be the way to go for humans. Mars has quite a few magnetic anomalies, especially in the south, which will provide some protection.As for the radiation protection - ice. Sandwich between two sheets of glass, and the internal pressure will counteract the weight, there have been plenty of threads on this, and papers on the net.The sky colour won't be a problem. Human eyes adapt very quickly to coloured lighting conditions. Indoor lights are very different to natural "white" sunlight, yet white things still look white to you.If you look at the exposed rocks from one of the rover pictures, they often look slightly blue - they aren't. They're a grey colour, as you'd find on the Moon or Earth, your eye is just auto-balancing against the ochre-orange of Mars.
Quote from: guckyfan on 03/04/2017 08:47 amElon Musk mentioning a geodesic dome suggests a different approach. Build the dome to just contain pressure and be transparent. Think the panorama window in ITS. Build structures with radiation shielding inside. Those can have windows and a shielded porch to look at the plants and going outside for an hour or two a day would be OK in your radiation budget unless you are pregnant or an infant.Elon musks' actual words (Reddit AMA):"Initially, glass panes with carbon fiber frames to build geodesic domes on the surface, plus a lot of miner/tunneling droids. With the latter, you can build out a huge amount of pressurized space for industrial operations and leave the glass domes for green living space."- The "huge amount of pressurized space" of his base on Mars will obviously be subterranean.