Author Topic: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?  (Read 30395 times)

Offline sghill

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #20 on: 09/09/2014 03:47 pm »
Most of what's on the pad looks like high-pressure compressed gas trailers (the white arrays of cylinders). They certainly won't be there during operations.

In particular, that looks like the tanks Helium is delivered in.  I don't think any other gas is commonly shipped in those long thin tubes.

Orionsbelt posted this photo a year ago of the SpaceX helium tanks at Vandenburg.
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Offline nadreck

Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #21 on: 09/09/2014 05:31 pm »
Most of what's on the pad looks like high-pressure compressed gas trailers (the white arrays of cylinders). They certainly won't be there during operations.

In particular, that looks like the tanks Helium is delivered in.  I don't think any other gas is commonly shipped in those long thin tubes.

See http://www.answers.com/Q/Why_do_helium_transport_trucks_typically_have_several_long_tanks_instead_of_one_large_tank

compressed natural gas is typically - see these multi modal`s for it - hydrogen as well (I was once on a highway where I saw an oxygen truck and a hydrogen truck and the hydrogen truck was passing the oxygen truck I really wondered whether there was any dangerous goods rules about that sort of thing).

Pictures (CNG):





Picture (Hydrogen gas):



It is all well and good to quote those things that made it past your confirmation bias that other people wrote, but this is a discussion board damnit! Let us know what you think! And why!

Offline cscott

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #22 on: 09/09/2014 05:34 pm »
compressed natural gas is typically - see these multi modal`s for it - hydrogen as well

Given that it's still too early for methalox testing, and SpaceX doesn't do hydrolox, I guess helium is a safe bet then. ;)

Offline nadreck

Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #23 on: 09/09/2014 06:21 pm »
compressed natural gas is typically - see these multi modal`s for it - hydrogen as well

Given that it's still too early for methalox testing, and SpaceX doesn't do hydrolox, I guess helium is a safe bet then. ;)
They wouldn't use compressed hydrogen tankers for that, they would use liquid hydrogen ones which look like your  traditional cyogenic liquid tankers.

Edit: they wouldn't use compressed NG either but liquid methane instead. Again standard cryotanks.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2014 06:23 pm by nadreck »
It is all well and good to quote those things that made it past your confirmation bias that other people wrote, but this is a discussion board damnit! Let us know what you think! And why!

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #24 on: 09/09/2014 08:11 pm »
Seems like an awful lot of equipment in close proximity to engine blast, especially without a flame trench.  Is that all just construction equipment?

They look like big racks of air tanks (look at the shadows), plus some building roof trusses.  Perhaps they had to take early delivery and they may just be parking them there to keep the wheels out of the mud while they work on the rest of the site.  There is a large shipping container in the bottom right corner for comparison.

The large grey scrapped off area has 4 interesting structures out as well.  Two 30ft. long rectangular pits and two 10ft. square protrusions that appear to be around 7-10 feet high (look at their shadows compared to the 12 foot tall backhoe nearby) with some sort of covers on them.

While the upper pic looks like it MIGHT be a landing pad, I also think it might be the launch pad facility as well
 The lower picture might be where they plan on puting a horizontle assembly building, (Although that seems a bit close to the pad) or it could be where they are planing on storing the fuels for the rocket.

     Either way, I suspect that they are developing this area for future convertion after testing has been completed.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2014 08:17 pm by JasonAW3 »
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Offline sghill

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #25 on: 09/09/2014 08:21 pm »
While the upper pic looks like it MIGHT be a landing pad, I also think it might be the launch pad facility as well

I think "both" is the correct answer given their TX pad layout and experience.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2014 08:21 pm by sghill »
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Offline ncb1397

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #26 on: 09/09/2014 08:27 pm »
Let's make this a poll. Then the poll-pocalypse can continue.

Offline CraigLieb

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #27 on: 09/09/2014 09:03 pm »
https://twitter.com/maximeputeaux/status/509365783664005120

shotwell gives an update when missions in NM will fly:
"@SpaceX COO next Falcon9R shall be delivered within 2 months for testing and the sent to New Mexico to fly #WSBW2014 pic.twitter.com/aj8Tl14yzR "
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Offline Arb

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #28 on: 09/09/2014 11:22 pm »
The large grey scrapped off area has 4 interesting structures out as well.  Two 30ft. long rectangular pits and two 10ft. square protrusions that appear to be around 7-10 feet high (look at their shadows compared to the 12 foot tall backhoe nearby) with some sort of covers on them.

Could that be the start of a simple launch mount? The distance between the outside of the pits is 14m according to the Google Earth ruler. The LC-40 & SLC-4 measurements for the hydraulic ram pits are very similar. The flat concrete area would then be for storage of gasses, etc.

The distance between the concrete and the launch mount is a little over 300m. The equivalent distance at the Grasshopper pad is only 50m. Pad to HIF at SLC-4 is around 246m. So the New Mexico distance seems ample.

Offline Kabloona

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #29 on: 09/10/2014 01:34 am »
The large grey scrapped off area has 4 interesting structures out as well.  Two 30ft. long rectangular pits and two 10ft. square protrusions that appear to be around 7-10 feet high (look at their shadows compared to the 12 foot tall backhoe nearby) with some sort of covers on them.

Could that be the start of a simple launch mount? The distance between the outside of the pits is 14m according to the Google Earth ruler. The LC-40 & SLC-4 measurements for the hydraulic ram pits are very similar. The flat concrete area would then be for storage of gasses, etc.

The distance between the concrete and the launch mount is a little over 300m. The equivalent distance at the Grasshopper pad is only 50m. Pad to HIF at SLC-4 is around 246m. So the New Mexico distance seems ample.

Seems like a strange place for a launch mount, nearest the access road instead of farthest, and where you'd expect a hangar, parking lot, and/or office facilities.

I would expect them to mimic MacGregor as closely as possible, flat concrete pad with a stool-type launch mount, no giant trenches and no ground-based hydraulic rams (only on the mobile TE) if possible, KISS.

Ergo I still think the pad we see now is the launch/landing pad. (And it's way too big to be just a tank farm. That's almost an acre of concrete.)
« Last Edit: 09/10/2014 01:41 am by Kabloona »

Online meekGee

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #30 on: 09/10/2014 01:34 am »
How old is this image anyway?
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Offline Lars_J

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #31 on: 09/10/2014 01:41 am »
How old is this image anyway?

According to Google Earth, it was captured 12/14/2013. So 9+ months ago.

Offline docmordrid

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #32 on: 09/10/2014 02:31 am »
https://twitter.com/maximeputeaux/status/509365783664005120

shotwell gives an update when missions in NM will fly:
"@SpaceX COO next Falcon9R shall be delivered within 2 months for testing and the sent to New Mexico to fly #WSBW2014 pic.twitter.com/aj8Tl14yzR "

Maxime Puteaux is with Euroconsult.

So about late November.
« Last Edit: 09/10/2014 02:33 am by docmordrid »
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Offline Llian Rhydderch

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #33 on: 09/10/2014 02:40 am »
How old is this image anyway?

According to Google Earth, it was captured 12/14/2013. So 9+ months ago.

Thanks for that info!

That indicates that the photos were taken 5 months before the article that indicated SpaceX had spent about $2 million prior to May 2014 on constructing their facility at Spaceport America.
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Offline Kabloona

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #34 on: 09/10/2014 03:41 am »
How old is this image anyway?

According to Google Earth, it was captured 12/14/2013. So 9+ months ago.

Thanks for that info!

That indicates that the photos were taken 5 months before the article that indicated SpaceX had spent about $2 million prior to May 2014 on constructing their facility at Spaceport America.

That blog post refers to "launch and landing pads" in the plural. I wonder if that is correct or a mere slip of the tongue, since SpaceX have shown they can launch and land at the same pad in TX.

Offline Llian Rhydderch

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #35 on: 09/10/2014 04:00 am »
FWIW, the fenced building/facility to the south-southeast of the SpaceX construction, at the east end of the road, is the UP Aerospace vertical launch facility.

(that is their launch tower sticking out of the end of the hangar doors)
Re arguments from authority on NSF:  "no one is exempt from error, and errors of authority are usually the worst kind.  Taking your word for things without question is no different than a bracket design not being tested because the designer was an old hand."
"You would actually save yourself time and effort if you were to use evidence and logic to make your points instead of wrapping yourself in the royal mantle of authority.  The approach only works on sheep, not inquisitive, intelligent people."

Offline Kabloona

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #36 on: 09/10/2014 04:19 am »
FWIW, the fenced building/facility to the south-southeast of the SpaceX construction, at the east end of the road, is the UP Aerospace vertical launch facility.

(that is their launch tower sticking out of the end of the hangar doors)

Is that this thing?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UP_Aerospace#/image/File:UP_Aerospace_vertical_launch_site_Spaceport_America.JPG


Online meekGee

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #37 on: 09/10/2014 05:19 am »
FWIW, the fenced building/facility to the south-southeast of the SpaceX construction, at the east end of the road, is the UP Aerospace vertical launch facility.

(that is their launch tower sticking out of the end of the hangar doors)

Is that this thing?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UP_Aerospace#/image/File:UP_Aerospace_vertical_launch_site_Spaceport_America.JPG

What a gorgeous contraption!

It's like Thunderbirds 1 had a baby with StingRay, in a barn, and the baby is poking its head out, Alien style.  And wheels.
« Last Edit: 09/10/2014 05:20 am by meekGee »
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Offline somepitch

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #38 on: 09/10/2014 05:35 am »
The ends of those tanks on the pad look like these. http://www.billcaid.com/2007/CaidShopVisit20070421/IMG_4166.jpg

The equipment to the west looks like water trucks, a scraper, roller, dozer, grader, and maybe a loader.

Pad is 200' x 200', fenced area is 500' x 500'.

Offline Llian Rhydderch

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Re: When will SpaceX begin test flights in New Mexico?
« Reply #39 on: 09/10/2014 08:51 am »
FWIW, the fenced building/facility to the south-southeast of the SpaceX construction, at the east end of the road, is the UP Aerospace vertical launch facility.

(that is their launch tower sticking out of the end of the hangar doors)

Is that this thing?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UP_Aerospace#/image/File:UP_Aerospace_vertical_launch_site_Spaceport_America.JPG

What a gorgeous contraption!

It's like Thunderbirds 1 had a baby with StingRay, in a barn, and the baby is poking its head out, Alien style.  And wheels.

Yes, that is the UP Aerospace movable building and launch mount.  As I recall from something I read a few years ago, the launch mount is fixed to a foundation, and is of course raised vertical for launch, while able to go horizontal to allow work on the rocket prior to flight.  The building structure (the "payload integration hangar") is on wheels so it can move out of the way for launch. 

Both the UP Aerospace building, and the SpaceX F9R-Dev2 construction zone, are in the designated vertical launch area of Spaceport America.
Re arguments from authority on NSF:  "no one is exempt from error, and errors of authority are usually the worst kind.  Taking your word for things without question is no different than a bracket design not being tested because the designer was an old hand."
"You would actually save yourself time and effort if you were to use evidence and logic to make your points instead of wrapping yourself in the royal mantle of authority.  The approach only works on sheep, not inquisitive, intelligent people."

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