Author Topic: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)  (Read 119224 times)

Online sdsds

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #80 on: 07/16/2012 01:34 am »
The proposed Kodiak launch site photo appears to show a mobile service tower (a building really) pulled back from a rocket that looks to me like something with only one Castor 120 and a Castor 30 type on top of an SRB segment type first stage.

Do you mean this (attached) artwork? I don't see indication the building moves.
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Offline Prober

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #81 on: 07/16/2012 01:34 pm »
The proposed Kodiak launch site photo appears to show a mobile service tower (a building really) pulled back from a rocket that looks to me like something with only one Castor 120 and a Castor 30 type on top of an SRB segment type first stage.

Do you mean this (attached) artwork? I don't see indication the building moves.

know what Ed is talking about as the other building had a circle type door, this is a different setup.
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Offline Alaska Ranger

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #82 on: 07/24/2012 09:50 pm »
Yes, the building moves on rails.  We are calling it the Vehicle Processing Facility.  It will have a 225-250 ton bridge crane that will stack the vehicle on the pad and then retract ~400 feet for launch.

The EA for this project should be released to the public next month.  Construction time depends on when the Athena III makes its first sale.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #83 on: 07/24/2012 09:58 pm »
Yes, the building moves on rails.  We are calling it the Vehicle Processing Facility.  It will have a 225-250 ton bridge crane that will stack the vehicle on the pad and then retract ~400 feet for launch.

The EA for this project should be released to the public next month.  Construction time depends on when the Athena III makes its first sale.
Awesome, thanks for the info.
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Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #84 on: 07/27/2012 01:14 am »
There was some mention that Alaska wanted to be able to "share" the same facilites between the Athena and Orbital's Antares. Of course, Antares needs to book some west coast flights on it's manifest first, but how realistic is it for Athena and Antares to share the same launch facilities ?


Offline baldusi

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #85 on: 07/27/2012 05:00 pm »
There was some mention that Alaska wanted to be able to "share" the same facilites between the Athena and Orbital's Antares. Of course, Antares needs to book some west coast flights on it's manifest first, but how realistic is it for Athena and Antares to share the same launch facilities ?
I just don't see it. Antares need an HIF, Athena a movable VPF that goes over the pad. Antares needs an RP-1 infrastructure, Athena needs none. If you use the same pad, should OSC wait on the HIF while the Athena is integrated on the pad? I simply don't see it.

Offline Alaska Ranger

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #86 on: 08/02/2012 05:52 am »
There was some mention that Alaska wanted to be able to "share" the same facilites between the Athena and Orbital's Antares. Of course, Antares needs to book some west coast flights on it's manifest first, but how realistic is it for Athena and Antares to share the same launch facilities ?
I just don't see it. Antares need an HIF, Athena a movable VPF that goes over the pad. Antares needs an RP-1 infrastructure, Athena needs none. If you use the same pad, should OSC wait on the HIF while the Athena is integrated on the pad? I simply don't see it.
You are correct about the different infrastructure requirements.  On top of that, I do not know of any launch pad anywhere that is dual use for liquid and solid LVs.  We have designs for a liquid pad and a solid pad.  It may not be possible, or even operationally effective, to try to integrate the two dissimilar designs.  We are still brain storming concepts, because we don't have the $$ to build two pads simultaneously.  It is a moot point until there is a formal commitment from Orbital about their West Coast site.

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #87 on: 08/02/2012 01:11 pm »

 On top of that, I do not know of any launch pad anywhere that is dual use for liquid and solid LVs. 

Cough, Cough,

Ares I test flight from the shuttle pad.
Early Athena flights from Slick 6 (Former MOL then Shuttle pad, now the Delta IV pad)

That said, liquid rockets require a fair amount of GSE that is not needed for a solid vehicle. I also suspect solids are tougher on the pad, who can forget a few years back the Shuttle SRB's tearing up the flame trench.
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Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #88 on: 08/02/2012 01:22 pm »
There was some mention that Alaska wanted to be able to "share" the same facilites between the Athena and Orbital's Antares. Of course, Antares needs to book some west coast flights on it's manifest first, but how realistic is it for Athena and Antares to share the same launch facilities ?
I just don't see it. Antares need an HIF, Athena a movable VPF that goes over the pad. Antares needs an RP-1 infrastructure, Athena needs none. If you use the same pad, should OSC wait on the HIF while the Athena is integrated on the pad? I simply don't see it.
You are correct about the different infrastructure requirements.  On top of that, I do not know of any launch pad anywhere that is dual use for liquid and solid LVs.  We have designs for a liquid pad and a solid pad.  It may not be possible, or even operationally effective, to try to integrate the two dissimilar designs.  We are still brain storming concepts, because we don't have the $$ to build two pads simultaneously.  It is a moot point until there is a formal commitment from Orbital about their West Coast site.

Just find someone more competent than the folks building the Antares pad at Wallops.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #89 on: 08/02/2012 04:50 pm »
There was some mention that Alaska wanted to be able to "share" the same facilites between the Athena and Orbital's Antares. Of course, Antares needs to book some west coast flights on it's manifest first, but how realistic is it for Athena and Antares to share the same launch facilities ?
I just don't see it. Antares need an HIF, Athena a movable VPF that goes over the pad. Antares needs an RP-1 infrastructure, Athena needs none. If you use the same pad, should OSC wait on the HIF while the Athena is integrated on the pad? I simply don't see it.
You are correct about the different infrastructure requirements.  On top of that, I do not know of any launch pad anywhere that is dual use for liquid and solid LVs.  We have designs for a liquid pad and a solid pad.  It may not be possible, or even operationally effective, to try to integrate the two dissimilar designs.  We are still brain storming concepts, because we don't have the $$ to build two pads simultaneously.  It is a moot point until there is a formal commitment from Orbital about their West Coast site.
You can put a solid LV on a liquid rocket launch pad, with a mobile platform, like Ares I or Liberty would do on LC-39. But you get a more expensive pad, and little or no synergies.
I mean, the particularly case of Antares and Athena III are so dissimilar, that's sort of a moot point. Something like Atlas V, instead, would be much easier, since it's more similar to a Liberty like solution. But Antares is only comparable to Zenit-2 or Falcon 9.
May be the solution would be to try to squeeze the solids on one pad and Antares in the other.
From a pure orbital mechanics pov Kodiak is great, but how's the rest of the support infrastructure at Kodiak? Could you handle a 3.7m satellite? Have you multiple integration facilities? Is it easy to transport a 4m fairing? Can you handle cryogenic payloads (you know what I mean)?

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #90 on: 08/09/2012 12:36 am »
The Kodiak facilities are pretty good.  Our PPF looks like a min-AstroTech with two bays that can handle a 4m fairing.  We only have one integration facility, because we only have one orbital pad (the suborbital pad is 500' away, so no simultaneous use).  Range safety and telemetry is GPS metric tracking- only requires 18 people (that includes the off-axis site).  And logistics; direct barge service from Seattle and six flights a day.  That's my 10 second sales pitch.

The dissimilarity between the Athena III and the Antares is significant.  Like you said, it is a moot point until we get launch contracts for both.  If that happens, we will have to start a new KLC thread to keep people up to date.

By the way, we are submitting the draft EA to the FAA tomorrow.  Not sure when they will post it for comments.  I'm out of town for a few weeks- talk to you later.

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #92 on: 09/24/2012 12:05 am »
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/lockheed-considers-viability-of-resurrected-athena-small-satellite-launcher-programme-376581/

Just saw this.

Possibly not good news?  :-\

from the Flightglobal article:
Quote
a price point of around $70 million for an Athena II...

Roughly slight more than the cost of a Falcon 9 launch. So it doesn't look good for Athena resurrection.

Offline spectre9

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #93 on: 09/24/2012 01:35 pm »
You don't have to compete with a rocket that doesn't launch.

Backup contracts to SpaceX payloads are where the market is at right now.

Everybody that has huge backlogs with SpaceX is only popping one sat off the front of the campaign at a time as the Falcon 9 launches don't materialise.

There's a first in best dressed situation here for low cost launch of small payloads that aren't making their parent company any money sitting on the ground.

Athena II/III could swoop in.. if not something else will or the payloads will go to non-USA launch providers.

Offline Danderman

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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #96 on: 02/01/2013 05:05 pm »
I'm writing a short article on Athena. It discusses its history, launches, and current plans.

Here's a question that I haven't been able to answer: why did they name it "Athena"?

Offline Skyrocket

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #97 on: 02/01/2013 05:42 pm »
I'm writing a short article on Athena. It discusses its history, launches, and current plans.

Here's a question that I haven't been able to answer: why did they name it "Athena"?

Likely because the original designations "LLV" ("Lockheed Launch Vehicle") and "LMLV" ("Lockheed Martin Launch Vehicle") were not so well suited for marketing as a traditional mythological name.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #98 on: 02/01/2013 06:11 pm »
I'm writing a short article on Athena. It discusses its history, launches, and current plans.

Here's a question that I haven't been able to answer: why did they name it "Athena"?

Likely because the original designations "LLV" ("Lockheed Launch Vehicle") and "LMLV" ("Lockheed Martin Launch Vehicle") were not so well suited for marketing as a traditional mythological name.

I got that. But why specifically "Athena"?

Lockheed had previously built the Agena, and the company had a history of naming its aircraft after stars and constellations.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Athena News (Athena 3 Still Kicking)
« Reply #99 on: 02/03/2013 07:21 pm »
That also leads me to the flipside of that question: why the heck did they name it LLV-1 in the first place? You would think that from a marketing standpoint that's a lousy name. Not catchy, doesn't evoke anything. If you're trying to sell a rocket, you give it an interesting name, right?

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