Quote from: TrueBlueWitt on 10/09/2010 01:24 amQuote from: alexw on 10/09/2010 12:48 am {pain} Just when I was kinda-sorta-starting to believe (against most logic) the relentless charges that the Augustine Commission was too pessimistic, that the hardware/budget/timeline picture is better than it looks ... Wayne Hale goes and pours water on those hopes. Thank you very, very much for your candor. -AlexThat's not how I read it.. I'm honestly not sure what to make of Wayne's Blog.Does he feel like a lot of effort was wasted on options that could never fit in the budget and that the commission should have spent more time coming up with, and making sure they had the numbers right on options that could fit in the budget??? If I may be so bold, he may be tired of the second guessing by everyone. He may be tired of the constant change in direction. He may be tired of the promise of one thing, only to be shot down in reality because those in power do not deliver. He may be likely tired of "doing more with less"He may be tired of essentially being told to explore the universe for less than 19 billion a year but at the same time having to fund everything else on NASA's plate.He may be tired of not being able to leave LEO in 40 years but hearing that "Mars is the ultimate goal" for the duration of some of his co-workers lives yet never seeing any real progress.
Quote from: alexw on 10/09/2010 12:48 am {pain} Just when I was kinda-sorta-starting to believe (against most logic) the relentless charges that the Augustine Commission was too pessimistic, that the hardware/budget/timeline picture is better than it looks ... Wayne Hale goes and pours water on those hopes. Thank you very, very much for your candor. -AlexThat's not how I read it.. I'm honestly not sure what to make of Wayne's Blog.Does he feel like a lot of effort was wasted on options that could never fit in the budget and that the commission should have spent more time coming up with, and making sure they had the numbers right on options that could fit in the budget???
{pain} Just when I was kinda-sorta-starting to believe (against most logic) the relentless charges that the Augustine Commission was too pessimistic, that the hardware/budget/timeline picture is better than it looks ... Wayne Hale goes and pours water on those hopes. Thank you very, very much for your candor. -Alex
Funny, around my lab at work, there are lots of guys complaining about this or that. Every now and then I chime in say something like "It could be worse, it could be September 1939." Usually shuts 'em right up.
A very interesting new post from Mr. Hale - "The coming train wreck for Commercial Human Spaceflight".http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/the-coming-train-wreck-for-commercial-human-spaceflight
Quote from: Space Pete on 11/14/2010 03:33 pmA very interesting new post from Mr. Hale - "The coming train wreck for Commercial Human Spaceflight".http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/the-coming-train-wreck-for-commercial-human-spaceflightThe room stands, cheers and says "Bravo!" to Wayne!Here's hoping this gets wide circulation and has a positive impact!
Quote from: OV-106 on 11/14/2010 03:44 pmQuote from: Space Pete on 11/14/2010 03:33 pmA very interesting new post from Mr. Hale - "The coming train wreck for Commercial Human Spaceflight".http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/the-coming-train-wreck-for-commercial-human-spaceflightThe room stands, cheers and says "Bravo!" to Wayne!Here's hoping this gets wide circulation and has a positive impact!I hope so too. Very disturbing to know NASA is making things more difficult than they probably should.
I hope so too. Very disturbing to know NASA is making things more difficult than they probably should.
Quote from: robertross on 11/14/2010 03:49 pmI hope so too. Very disturbing to know NASA is making things more difficult than they probably should.Not at all unexpected IMO. A lot of bureaucrats are scrambling to justify their existence at this time. What better way than by producing requirements documents and, hopefully, parlaying that to a permanent position reviewing compliance?
Quote from: Norm Hartnett on 11/14/2010 04:02 pmNot at all unexpected IMO. A lot of bureaucrats are scrambling to justify their existence at this time. What better way than by producing requirements documents and, hopefully, parlaying that to a permanent position reviewing compliance?I think you are implying a little too sinister intent. Government employees really do not need to "justify their existance". Look at what is happening within the space community with all the layoffs and uncertain future. At this moment, and further enforced by the Authorization Act of 2010, government employees do not have to be concerned with not having a job.
Not at all unexpected IMO. A lot of bureaucrats are scrambling to justify their existence at this time. What better way than by producing requirements documents and, hopefully, parlaying that to a permanent position reviewing compliance?
Quote from: OV-106 on 11/14/2010 04:11 pmQuote from: Norm Hartnett on 11/14/2010 04:02 pmNot at all unexpected IMO. A lot of bureaucrats are scrambling to justify their existence at this time. What better way than by producing requirements documents and, hopefully, parlaying that to a permanent position reviewing compliance?I think you are implying a little too sinister intent. Government employees really do not need to "justify their existance". Look at what is happening within the space community with all the layoffs and uncertain future. At this moment, and further enforced by the Authorization Act of 2010, government employees do not have to be concerned with not having a job. As a former government employee (DOD and Interior) I've seen this kind of behavior first hand. (I've seen it in the commercial sector too, of course.). It isn't "sinister" it is the natural environment of bureaucrats.
Quote from: robertross on 11/14/2010 03:49 pmQuote from: OV-106 on 11/14/2010 03:44 pmQuote from: Space Pete on 11/14/2010 03:33 pmA very interesting new post from Mr. Hale - "The coming train wreck for Commercial Human Spaceflight".http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/the-coming-train-wreck-for-commercial-human-spaceflightThe room stands, cheers and says "Bravo!" to Wayne!Here's hoping this gets wide circulation and has a positive impact!I hope so too. Very disturbing to know NASA is making things more difficult than they probably should.Wayne said it too, it is not intentional. It's a form of requirements creep where various factions insert something they believe to be important and absolute.Add all these small pieces together and you get a massive document that drives cost and schedule. It's a counterpart to the traditional requirements creep process that is responsible for a lot of projects going belly-up within NASA and the DOD.
Quote from: Norm Hartnett on 11/14/2010 04:21 pmAs a former government employee (DOD and Interior) I've seen this kind of behavior first hand. (I've seen it in the commercial sector too, of course.). It isn't "sinister" it is the natural environment of bureaucrats. That's fair and maybe the motives of some, after all who's to say. But implying that is the general motive and the driving force is all I was getting at. Given they are government employees, securing their jobs probably is not at the forefront of their minds. Unless congress takes some currently unexpected action, they *will* have a job.
As a former government employee (DOD and Interior) I've seen this kind of behavior first hand. (I've seen it in the commercial sector too, of course.). It isn't "sinister" it is the natural environment of bureaucrats.