2. no, it is not cargo, it is a spacecraft. This is not my opinion, it is the facts.
So what is correct usage? Payload encompasses crew, cargo and spacecraft? Does propellant count as cargo or is it a separate category?
Quote from: Jim on 10/24/2009 06:58 pm2. no, it is not cargo, it is a spacecraft. This is not my opinion, it is the facts.ESMD do not seem to share your interpretation of the facts. Why else would they divide up the ESAS mission equipment as they do?
Quote from: Ben the Space Brit on 10/24/2009 07:04 pmQuote from: Jim on 10/24/2009 06:58 pm2. no, it is not cargo, it is a spacecraft. This is not my opinion, it is the facts.ESMD do not seem to share your interpretation of the facts. Why else would they divide up the ESAS mission equipment as they do?Incorrect. Ares I is only to lift Orion and crew with nothing else to the ISS, MTV or to meet the LSAM. It doesn't bring logistics to the ISS with the crew.
Augustine showed that Ares *can* get NASA to the Moon with the same budget increase that would be needed for the Flex alternative. It can be done with Ares I/V, or with the Committee's favored dual Ares V-Lite option. If NASA doesn't get more money, it isn't doing "Flex" or any other beyond LEO program. - Ed Kyle
Yet, there appears to be a dogmatic assumption that the crew must be launched seperate from all these items and the suggestion by, for example, the DIRECT team, to do otherwise seems to be unacceptable
There is a glaring omission in the report. They endorse in-space refueling, but don't provide any analysis or reasoning about the costs of fuel (per kg) to the depot (or tanker) in LEO. Without such an assessment, how can they make a recommendation for in-space propellant depots? They recommend to develop and operate an HLV. Variable costs of HLVs are in the 3,000 to 5,000 USD range per kg to LEO. Fuel to depots (kg of fuel to LEO) need to have net costs lower than that to make sense economically.
Quote from: Ben the Space Brit on 10/24/2009 07:14 pm Yet, there appears to be a dogmatic assumption that the crew must be launched seperate from all these items and the suggestion by, for example, the DIRECT team, to do otherwise seems to be unacceptable By who?NSC doesn't follow this.
1. It depends on who you ask and, once again, we get back to my original point. 2. some artificially complex three-launch scenario with seperate launches for the Orion and crew EDS
Quote from: alexSA on 10/24/2009 09:34 amAnd to stay with the topic of this thread - the table in the report shows how tremendously important depots really are.They say, if you have a 75mt to LEO launcher, with the use of propellant transfer in LEO, you got 55mt to TLI with just one launch and in-space fuel transfer. If you got a 100mt to LEO launcher, a single launch and fuel transfer suffices to get 75mt to TLI or more than the current Ares I/V baseline. That's right, a directly shuttle derived HLV could carry out lunar missions with a single launch and refueling. Talk about mission complexity...Yeah, there we go.
And to stay with the topic of this thread - the table in the report shows how tremendously important depots really are.They say, if you have a 75mt to LEO launcher, with the use of propellant transfer in LEO, you got 55mt to TLI with just one launch and in-space fuel transfer. If you got a 100mt to LEO launcher, a single launch and fuel transfer suffices to get 75mt to TLI or more than the current Ares I/V baseline. That's right, a directly shuttle derived HLV could carry out lunar missions with a single launch and refueling. Talk about mission complexity...
I now consider SpaceX to be The American Space Program as they are the only people who are thinking about the most important space related engineering question- reducing the $/kg to LEO ratio.
Quote from: Antares on 10/23/2009 08:08 pmYou're saying that SDLV on its first flight will automagically be as safe as Shuttle is now? Thankfully, "B1" decriminalized whatever you're smoking earlier this week.Answer: 0/0 (17/17) and 2/3 (9/10) and 126/128.But just pointing out that the EELV's do not have the flight record to compare to the Shuttle.
You're saying that SDLV on its first flight will automagically be as safe as Shuttle is now? Thankfully, "B1" decriminalized whatever you're smoking earlier this week.Answer: 0/0 (17/17) and 2/3 (9/10) and 126/128.
And I want a pony. And a million dollars.
Quote from: jongoff on 10/23/2009 08:40 pmAnd I want a pony. And a million dollars. OK, that leaves the pony.